>Turn based RPG
>It's either piss easy or "difficult"
>The difficult ones are just grindfests
I can't comprehend how people act as if this dead genre dying is a bad thing.
Nostalgia.
>>342925938
Another retard believes his opinions are facts, don't you have another overwatch thread to shitpost friend?
>X-com
>Grind fest
Not talking the new ones though.
>>The difficult ones are just grindfests
>complaining that a genre based on numbers and time investment requires you to accumulate numbers and invest time
There are other genres you should be looking into if you want skill-based difficulty.
>>342926814
Or you could play a good turn based game like ShadowHearts.
>>342925938
This game actually provides a decent challenge while still being fun. No grinding required.
>>342926695
The closest I get to playing OW is shaking my dick like a joystick to the porn.
>>342926756
RNG is worse than grinding
>>342925938That's not Mine
>>342927040
Literally any girl (barring the trash from wild hunt) in AgK is better than that vegetable
>>342925938
Maybe you're playing the wrong turn-based RPGs, friendo
>>342927040
>posting a vegetable
>>342925938
have fun with this game op when you grind so much that you cannot even kill a single enemy. you actually have to grind smart and certain enemies and do certain things in this game aka using your brain.
>>342925938
If you have to grind in a RPG at all, especially a turn-based one, you're fucking terrible video games.
>>342927189
So it's only difficult because the game doesn't tell you how it works?
>>342927189
>using your brain
Ah, but there's one very crucial flaw with this game. It doesn't explain to you what it requires of you.
Meaning it becomes less about your brain, and more about your ability to make stupidly accurate guesses or reading guides.
>>342927157
>posting a soulless vegetable
>>342925938
mother 3 is one of the few JRPGs where I actually don't completely hate the gameplay because it HAS gameplay. Live a live too. Those are like the only JRPGs with tactics in them (that I've played).
Kinda like how yu-gi-oh and pokemon games (not just the card games) aren't strategic or even tactical and just ridiculously simplistic garbage that disguises itself by adding more "things" on top that don't change the fundamental gameplay in any significant way.
>>342926756
he's referring to typical turnbased party rpgs i believe, not gridbased strategy onesthough they have their own problems
RPG's peaked on the SNES. Not with shit like FF but with stuff like Live A Live, and Chrono Trigger.
FF on snes was overrated.
>>342927320
Pretty much.
>>342925938
Just because you are an EOP doesn't mean the genre is dying. There is always a new game on moonland. Fucking monolingual stupid faggot.
>>342928819
>EOP
what does this mean?
>>342925938
>I'M SHIT AT THE GAME SO I MUST GRIND INFINITELY TO MAKE THE GAME EASIER AND THEN BITCH ABOUT IT BEING EASY
Fuck off Pat you huge cunt
>>342929457
english only people
>>342928819
>"new games" with the same mechanic
>not dying
>>342929457
It's supposed to be "english only people" but it actually means "people who don't know japanese".
>>342927189
I don't get it. I bought this game when it came out and beat it without having a lot of trouble with it. I was 13 I think and if I managed to do it, it shouldn't be that much of a problem for so many people.
I remember having a bit of trouble with Eagle's Nest (or however that place was called) but I beat that too.
>tfw I sold it at Gamestop
I wish I could go back to the past and stop my past self from being so stupid.
>>342925938
why play it if you don't like it?
>>342925938
tell me what genre you like and i'll deconstruct it with greentext to make you look like a retard
Her breasts are too big
>>342925938
It's a bad thing because I like the genre.
>>342927294
Yes anon, there's never been an RPG that specifically required the player to grind to not get one-hit by the next boss. Ever.
>The difficult ones are just grindfests
Try using more than just attack. You'd be surprised on how much low level game breaking skills there are in turned based rpgs.
>>342925938
i've never actually finished a turn based RPG
its so fucking boring
>>342927129
>>342927157
>watching weeaboo shit
>pretending to be better
Dohohoho
What are some games with intense gore and big boobs?
>>342925938
Who this cock dock?
![8449559983_72aee9b2bf[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/SmvyLog.jpg "8449559983_72aee9b2bf[1].jpg")
>>342931129
Ninja Gaiden 3: Razor's Edge
I list that Ninja Gaiden game in particular because the PS3 and Wii U versions have boob jiggle when you shake the controller
OP is the same person making multiple anime threads on /v/ right now. Report threads and move along.
>>342931231
generic anime waifu #52331
>>342931231Najenda of Akame ga Kill. Underrepresented as all hell
>>342931296
Get that stick out of your ass Randall
>>342925938
but you can beat mother 3 without any grinding at all OP :<0
>>342931296
kys
>>342931375
At least my girlfriend hasn't sucked 37 dicks.
>>342928220
>Live A Live
My nigga. That game would be a venerated classic and not an overlooked masterpiece had it ever received proper western release. It's so strange it didn't, though.
>Playing Ys
>Get absolutely demolished by boss while I do nothing to it
>Grind 2 levels
>Situation is reversed
>>342925938
>turn based rpg
>hailed as difficult
>boss has a gimmick that you need to exploit to defeat it
legend of legacy was pretty good as far as the difficulty goes but it was still a grindfest allbeit for other reasons.
>>342931579
Right, she sucked 36 and I was number 7
>>342925938
>what is fallout tactics / ja2 / silent storm for 400?
>>342931605
Feeling like checking this out. Which Live is best to start with?
>>342925938
>>It's either piss easy or "difficult"
Actually, even if you put aside shit like difficulty is subjective, there are very few turn-based RPGs that fall under those categories. Really, only one I can think of would be Golden Sun: Dark Dawn which is baby-tier easy, literally made for "this is my first JRPG" crowd. A lot of perceived "difficulty" comes from the fact no one expects the player to LEARN anything while playing, you're supposed to intuitively figure it out according to modern game design. Which is why you all fucker shit a brick and try playing older games.
>>342926897
>tfw I found out that artist does cute lolis, and cute lolis getting brutally raped
>>342931759
They're all different so game never gets old, but robot one has barely any combat while wrestler one is all about combat. Also fucking amazing soundtrack all around. Seriously, go play it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JUslCoV7Iso
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=90d9S-ZXL_E
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r3OPy9mrwWc
>>342931851
Isn't that sorta required to get anywhere in the east?
>>342930384
>I bought this game when it came out and beat it without having a lot of trouble with it.
Because normal players don't resort to grinding so you never face the problem game has because, hey, you're not SUPPOSED to grind in the first place. It's a crutch because JRPG players, especially in Japan, are surprisingly casual.
>>342931851
>posts a questionable statement and doesn't bother to back it up with evidence of this claim.
Shaking my head desu.
>>342930931
>mfw status affecting abilities in SMT games
>>342932193
http://danbooru.donmai.us/posts?tags=branch_%28blackrabbits%29
knock yourself out
>>342932169
I don't know, I usually get lots of xp because I try to 100% areas before moving on and I don't run from battles. You really have to grind a lot to mess it up I think.
Oh and now that I think about it, there was a second boss that gave me shitload of trouble. But I don't really remember what exactly it was. It was some kind of machine I think.
>>342932613
I think it might have been Gates of Hell
>>342932265
>mfw Strange Journey's battle system
![34417-Live_A_Live_(Japan)_[En_by_Aeon_Genesis_v2.0Deluxe]-1.jpg](https://i.imgur.com/KgaCuj4.jpg "34417-Live_A_Live_(Japan)_[En_by_Aeon_Genesis_v2.0Deluxe]-1.jpg")
>>342931993
not the same guy, but picked up. I just hope you're not shitting me.
>>342925938
That only applies to JRPGs.
>>342925938
I think Divinity:OS had a pretty good challenge in several of the fights and it wasn't grindy at all.
>>342932169
>Breeze through game until Hannah and Hinnah
>Bitches are raping the shit out of me
Ok I guess the game wants me to grind
>Grind
>Now getting one-shotted by them
>mfw
>He grinds
>>342927040
>>342925938
I really want to watch this show, but the protag is so generic that I'd rather watch SAO or any moe flavor of the month garbage.
>>342931052
The joke is that rem will be in a vegetative state by the end of the season. Here comes the whale.
>>342932958
I liked when a game like DOS and FFT lets you break it if you bother to think around its systems. There's nothing wrong with that because your average player will never figure it out or go in-depth with it, but it's something nice for players who are really into it.
>>342932815
SJ's combat is shit
>>342933095
He looks generic but he's actually pretty cool.And not actually the protagonist.
Did you watch/play Muv-Luv Alternative?
>>342933154
Yeah it's a pretty great combat system in my opinion.
Not too complex but more than just energy management like Fallout and Arcanum.
Maybe I should replay it now with EE.
>>342933343
Not yet. Any relation?
Also since you asked, is the anime an okay adaptation or should I just play it?
>>342933476
The writing style is kind of similar. It's hard to explain if you didn't watch it. I haven't played the VN, only saw parts of it on here.
I don't know how to ask without spoiling anything but if you decide to watch it, I hope you don't expect tofind good fanart, it's a fucking crime that there is almost nothing of Esdeath.
>>342926368
This is the only explanation. I played FF6 for the first time recently and it was fucking trash. People talk about it like it was the second coming to this fucking day.
>>342933669
>>342933669
>almost nothing of Esdeath
That was actually my main reason of even watching this. That sucks. In any case, thanks for the info.
>>342933872
almost nothing good*
there are like 4-5 pictures though
>>342933669
>>342933872
>>342933912
what are you talking about anon, there are many fantastic pictures of esdeath
>>342925938
I haven't played a ton of JRPGs, but I'm currently playing P3 and I like the way they somewhat discourage grinding in it. It could use a tweak though.
>>342925938
It's possible to beat most Fire Emblems with a no stat growth mod.
>>342934137
>tfw this is the average level of esdeath fanart
>>342934137
Holy hell why would you save this.
>>342925938
To all the naysayers who thinks OP is wrong: try to come up with an actually innovative system for a JRPG that's enjoyable at its core. You literally can't, because the entire genre boils down to comparing numbers over and over until one of them reaches zero. And any "difficulty" immediately evaporates when you realize this. There's no skill involved in seeing which number is bigger.
I ran into this wall when trying to make afurry h-rpg. Turn-based combat is BORING and there's very little you can actually do. All the modern games do their absolute best to hide this fact with plenty of visuals and animations, some kind of gimmick to distract you from realizing it's the same tired formula is fresh, a compelling plot to the point where you don't care, or by straight up hiding elements from the player so they don't realize what's happening behind the scenes.
>>342925938
>ctrl+f
>no Bastard Bonds
What the hell OP, it's like you don't want any fun.
>>342934326
That's because JRPG have not evolved at all their in inception, aside from branching out into SRPG and ARPG variants of their own. Then again, you have to considering JRPGs started off as LRPG aka Light RPGs.
>>342934326
But OP specified turn-based RPGs, not JRPGs and so I already offered Divinity:OS as a good example of well done turn-based combat with no grinding required.
Turn based JRPGS are usually garbage that are better off as action games
Pic related is an actually good turn based game
The most "challenging" RPG I played did the following:
>level caps prior to bosses
>each boss has a specific strategy to beat in a moderate time, otherwise takes awhile; no cheesing at all
>no random encounters but you had to be aware of your environment and movement if you wanted to avoid difficult enemies
You wanna know the name of that game?Final Fantasy XIII
>>342934676
>mfw play by email
I thought that died out in the 90s. Great game, criminally overlooked for what it is.
>>342934326
>give the player characters plenty of different and unique moves
>make enemies and bosses actually get effected by status effects and change their attack patterns as needed
>>342934758
That's not challenging that's just trial and error until you find the strategy the game wants you to use.
>>342934676
But both players act at same time.
>>342932265
>spam sukukaja/sukunda
>you are now unkillable
>>342934993
It's still turn based m8. Especially if you have a guy that likes to lag his turns out.
Its basically digital chess.
>>342935132
Closer to real-time with pause.
>>342934965
>give the player characters plenty of different and unique moves
There's no such thing as "different" or "unique" moves because they're ultimately just a constant that gets subtracted from the enemy object's HP. There's just a pretty animation or particle effect that distracts you from this fact, or maybe it's done in some esoteric way ("status effects") to take your mind off the fact that poison damage is still just subtracting a number from a number.
That's the trick turn-based RPGs pull. "Good" RPGs just do everything they can to keep you from realizing how ultimately basic the gameplay is.
>>342935201
Its turn based.
>>342933004
>he plays on Normal
>>342925938
I think that's kind of the point. Grinding is there for those who need it, and beating enemies easily at under-leveled states means you are good at strategy.
Enemies too easy? Stop grinding.
Enemies too hard? Start grinding.
If you don't like making number going up, you probably just shouldn't play rpgs...
>>342935204
>this move always strikes first
>this move ignores defence
>this move strikes all enemies
>this move strikes 1 turn after you use it
>this move blocks than counter attacks
>this move turns makes your next single target spell affect all targets on that side of the battlefield
Don't give me that shit just because you're an uncreative faggot.
>>342926912
>OW
>Porn
How is that working out for you? Didn't Blizz cuck you faggots by putting a prohibition of OW porn, even threatening porn artists and SFM makers with court and sueing? Do you need to buy porn pics from a shady dealer down an alleyway?
>>342925938
>>The difficult ones are just grindfests
fucking false. you need to git gud. every game like that gives you shit ton of options without needing to grind.
name 1 turb based rpg game that you need to seriously grind on hard difficulties
>>342935329
Not really. Grinding in JRPG is basically an old carryover from the days of early FF and DQ. Ever since late NES era you never really had to grind in JRPG as a norn.
>>342934326
Arc Rise Fantasia.
>>342935421
>implying you can't find plenty on sad panda
>>342935391
>this move subtracts a constant from the enemy object's hp variable
>this move subtracts a constant from the enemy object's hp variable
>this move subtracts a constant from every enemy object's hp variable
>this move subtracts a constant from the enemy object's hp variable later
>this move subtracts a constant from the enemy object's hp variable later
>this move makes another move subtract a constant from every enemy object's hp variable
Whoa! Different! Unique!
You fell for the trick. None of the fluff you wrote actually matters or makes a difference once the game is reduced to remove unnecessary visuals.. The developer has successfully distracted you from what the game ultimately does behind the scenes.
>>342935584
All videogames boil down to fucking numbers you retard.
Sure the entire point is hit it until it dies, but if you give enemies unique attack patterns that actually look at the field and react then it's less like that.
>>342935584
HATE VIDYA
>>342934676
what in the holy mother of clusterfuck is going on in that screen
>>342935840
>All videogames boil down to fucking numbers you retard.
The difference is that these numbers are objectively simple in a turn-based RPG. When your little sprite runs over to the goblin and you see a big -15 pop up over his head, you are literally simply subtracting a number from a different number. That is the FULL scope and depth of the game, period.
Meanwhile, most other genres go much deeper than that at all levels. They can use the player's physical skill or reaction as a metric for measuring player success, for example. They could include esoteric core mechanics that don't necessarily use numerical values to meter gameplay. The list of examples is huge.
>but if you give enemies unique attack patterns that actually look at the field and react then it's less like that.
That goes back to my original
>or by straight up hiding elements from the player so they don't realize what's happening behind the scenes
If you had full game information in front of you, something like a "dynamic ai" wouldn't matter or change the core concept of comparing numbers.
>>342936179
He's planning out the strategy ofgetting out of bed to go to the bathroom and get a snack without waking up his wife.
>>342936179
Misery.
>>342928220
>implying
FFIV and FFV were both great games. FFVI is shit.
>>342936253
>The difference is that these numbers are objectively simple in a turn-based RPG. When your little sprite runs over to the goblin and you see a big -15 pop up over his head, you are literally simply subtracting a number from a different number. That is the FULL scope and depth of the game, period.
You're still overly boiling everything down though.
I guess gameplans and strategies don't matter in basketball or any teambased shooters.
>Meanwhile, most other genres go much deeper than that at all levels
No, most don't. It's still "get a bigger score", "Get from Place A to B", Eliminate the enemy team.
>If you had full game information in front of you, something like a "dynamic ai" wouldn't matter or change the core concept of comparing numbers.
No it wouldn't, because pretty much every game ever is boils down to comparing numbers. Only ones that don't are ones that don't have a goal.
>>342936253
>They could include esoteric core mechanics that don't necessarily use numerical values to meter gameplay.
Such as?
>>342927320
>>342927354
Actually you just have to read the fucking manual.
WHY DOES NOBODY READ THE GODDAMN MANUAL
>>342925938
What is an RPG?
Does the new DOOM count as one?
Or does it need to have shit gameplay to qualify?
>>342934676
What is this masterpiece? I must know!
Also, if anybody really gives a shit about this anon's opinion on turn-based RPG's,good ones make you actually think ahead about what to do, or you die, and it means something. See: any Rogue clone. Your stats level up because it's a necessity to get through obstacles, but it's very short-term and largely about planning, kind of the same way macro works in an RTS. You lose, you start over. Shit like Final Fantasy may as well just be a skinner box with shitty writing because any "difficulty" they have is just slamming your face into the same wall over and over until you're strong enough to fight the next thing. This is my opinion though and you can think whatever you so please. News at 11.
>>342935201
Still makes it turn based, no matter if it´s IGO-UGO or not.
There are stark differences in real time tactics/strategy games, and so are there in turn based ones.
>>342925938
This anime adaptation was a concentrated star of pure wasted potential. The Manga is so much better it made my brain bleed just remembering the fact I saw the anime before the manga
>>342941990
Are you talking about where they diverged? I'm on volume 6 and I can say it was mostly adapted pretty faithfully, but idk about past that point where the anime went into filler.
>>342939505
Your opinion is literally correct though. The problem is that there are people that have never even heard of roguelikes so chances are they've never played a good rpg, and there are people that think improving your strategy is just trial and error, or in other words a fake challenge, the problem with that second one is that explaining why they're wrong is too much of a challenge. If I'm going to sit around improving my argument strategy I'd rather put that effort into a videogame.
![invisibleinc-2560x1140[1].png](https://i.imgur.com/pf3jQ10.jpg "invisibleinc-2560x1140[1].png")
God-like turn-based game coming through.
It's not perfect, levels do feel same-y, but hot damn it's fucking great. Turn-based stealth. It's about stealing and remaining undetected. Killing enemies is usually disadvantageous. Every level you have to decide how much you're willing to risk in order to get more cash/loot/rewards. Do you escape now? Or check out the next room for more cash? Which character is going to safeguard the knocked out enemies? And where?
Oh shit, another enemy. Next safeguard. Now you're down to 2 out of 4 characters at your disposal.
All the while you're listening to this soundtrack in the background:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vr5cUNNxMwQ
I love this game more than XCOM, because it gets really fucking tense.
>>342925938
play a real JRPG instead m8
SMT will shit all over casuals but if you're grinding, you're doing it wrong.
>Told SMT is the hardest game in the world
>debuff enemies while buffing yourself to deal massive damage
I honestly don't get it.
I think the only challenging turn based games are SRPG's that factor in enemy movement and placement into the equation.
Otherwise it just seems to come off as a checklist. If you the right spells then you'll win easily and if you don't then you won't win until you go spend money for said spell which is less hard and more tedious.
>>342934212
link?
>>342925938
Najenda is cute! Cute!
>>342935425
>every game like that gives you shit ton of options without needing to grind
such as?
>>342945164
cuter
Thread is missing best girl
>>342945928
At first I thought the latest chapters had him cuckin Mein, but then I realized it's a doujin.
>>342946058
If only.
>>342945797
Heresy.
>>342946238
>I kill armies in a skintight sleeveless shirt with a giant zipper running down and a skirt with a belt
Big Boss Najenda is so much better
>>342946524
Skirts with belts are cute, but I've never realized how stupid that actually is.
>>342946793
It's even funnier when her outfit looks like a one piece
>>342925938
Who is this one eyed jizz wizard?
RPG maker games allow single individuals to very easily make games. These are people who wouldn't have the time to craft actual gameplay, like with a platformer.
A couple good ones are Space Funeral and OFF. And of course Undertale uses the genre well by subverting the player's expectations based on other rpg's they've played and incorporating lots of input related skill.
>>342928220
>People still pretend Chrono Trigger is some high point of the genre
>>342947251
It's the ultimate beginners JRPG. No grind, brilliant graphics and music, and a solid, well paced but simple story.
>>342947213
fucking KEK that pic
>Leone is dead in the manga
Just fuck off takahiro, dropped it anyway.
>>342947476
He finally killed off that jobber?
How'd she die, Esdeath being a villain sue?
>>342927153
>Shin Megumi Transgay
>no grinding
>not literal metagaming to survive after the introduction of press turn
>>342947560
fuck off
>>342947772
Did I insult your waifu who serves as nothing more than being "I'm evil and strong."?
>>342947901
can you read you tosser, Esdeath is not Leone
>>342947560
>How'd she die
1v1 pvp no loot with fat minister.
>>342948002
I didn't call her Leone dumbass, I asked if she died fighting her.
