>le water temple sucks xD meme
I'll never understand this.
I love the puzzles and geometry in that temple. It's like the one temple that actually made me scratch my head and take my time looking at the map and trying to figure out how everything was connected, and what I had to next.
It was light on action, but had great puzzles. Even the Dark Link is kind of a puzzly fight.
I don't get people who claim to love Ocarina of Time but hate a dungeon that is basically a giant puzzle, which is a core element of the series as a whole.
I really like the Water Temple, and I think it deserves recognition for being an actually challenging dungeon in a game that is overall pretty easy.
The most annoying part was constantly switching boots. Its the one thing the 3DS remake managed to do right by making boots a seperate item
>>342753036
glad to see that i'm not the only one
>>342753036
All my rage stems from being like 10 when it first released, replaying the 3DS Version now when I have downtime at work, probably will enjoy it this time around.
>>342753195
Yeah, it was a design oversight not making the boots a C-able item, but it still isn't THAT big of a problem.
>>342753195
This.
>>342753036
>>342753036
>I don't get people who claim to love Ocarina of Time but hate a dungeon that is basically a giant puzzle, which is a core element of the series as a whole.
I don't get people who claim Ocarina is a perfect game yet are constantly memeing all the flaws of the game.
>le water temple
>le talky owl man
>le talky fairy
Fuck meme culture.
>>342753036
Everything in there is so slow, it doesn't feel right
>>342753465
It was big enough to be one of my least favorite dungeons in that game with my favorite beingSpirit Temple
Did Link and Ruto fuck?
>>342753036
i was 10 when i played this fgt
>>342753716
No, Ruto died and became a Sage.Her eggs are somewhere waiting to be fertilized though
>>342753195
This is really the only annoying part of the Water Temple desu.
>>342753036
>>342753319
>>342753631
Constantly having to change boots while the framerate is dipping due to underwater effects simply made for an extremely tedious, slow-paced slogfest of a dungeon.
These problems only get expontentially worse when you take the somewhat confusing structure of the dungeon into account and every error means you have to do a bunch of water-raising shit all over again.
>>342753036
I thought the same thing for years but I am playing the game now and just finished the Water Temple yesterday and it was really pissing me off. I had to reset because I used a key on the wrong door. Never had a problem with it before but now I understand the hate. Maybe I am a just now retard though because even the Shadow Temple was giving me trouble.
Give me 3 reasons why the water temple was both good from a design standpoint and fun to play. I'll wait
>>342753036
>It's like the one temple that actually made me scratch my head
it is the hardest dungeon I have played in any LOZ, it is the only one that has made me have to look at the map. I do all dungeons by memory.
I don't know why they couldn't keep up that level of complication in later games.
>>342753036
>Oh look, I have to dive through that short corridor!
*opens menu*
*equips boots*
*clomp clomp clomp*
*opens menu*
*unequips boots*
>Oh, nothing to do here right now!
*opens menu*
*equips boots*
*clomp clomp clomp clomp*
*opens menu*
*unequips boots*
You will hate the little menu-jingle after that temple.
>>342753036
Forest temple > Water Temple > Fire Temple > Spirit Temple > Shadow Temple
Which are you supposed to do first: Shadow Temple or Spirit Temple?
>>342753994
That's another issue I have with the temple.
If you have that shit memorized and know what to do then its not a big deal, but if not you'll be constantly changing water levels. Which means a lot of < ^ > < ^ >.
In MM I hated the stone temple for this reason because you have to play that fucking song that makes a statue of yourself. Its not that you have to do it once, but 3 times. Its the worst considering Stone temple would of been my favorite temple had you not have to do that. Just give me a Cane of Samaria instead
>>342754226
Shadow
>>342753948
>>342753631
it is everyones least favourite dungeon anon, even after we have completed the game many times we still rue the water temple and celebrate completing it.
>>342754226
Game wants you to do Shadow first.
But you can do either orthe medallion placement has Spirit before Shadow
>>342754226
You can mix it all the fuck up if you want to.
>>342753036
>I don't get people who claim to love Ocarina of Time but hate a dungeon that is basically a giant puzzle, which is a core element of the series as a whole.
The puzzles were fine. Navigating the temple was a slog, which is the issue here.
>I don't get people who love something but are quick to point out its flaws
Have you ever been in a relationship?
>>342753948
>Deku Tree
Okay
>Dodongo's Cavern
Okay
>Jabu Jabu's Belly
Good
>Forest Temple
Great
>Fire Temple
Okay
>Ice Cavern
Too short, but could've been okay if it was longer.
>Water Temple
Great
>Well
Literally like one room if you know what to do.
>Shadow Temple
Okay
>Spirit Temple
The Best
>Ganon's Castle
Great thematically, ascending the stairs as it get progressively brighter and the organs get louder is awesome.
>>342754112
>I had to reset because I used a key on the wrong door
there is no fucking up TLOZ dungeons anon, they are made carefully so you can't get stuck or fuck it up.
if you used a key there would have been another somewhere you were able to reach.
>>342754609
Literally the same for me.
Confirmed for patrician.
wasnt there a way to get stuck in the original version, forcing you to reset and try again?
im 90% sure I got stuck the first time I played
>>342754151
>>342754151
>I don't know why they couldn't keep up that level of complication in later games.
Because people would fucking complain, why do you think people think Zelda II is bad? Zelda Fans are fucking babies.
>>342753036
A lot of the people who played that game when it came out were just kids, of course they're gonna have trouble with a level or two.
Well, if you don't know what you're doing, you can screw up with the water levels and it can become tedious. Not only that, but it's easy to get lost.
>>342753036
It's really not that bad. I'm pretty sure a lot of the dislike stems from the fact that it was the first 3D zelda game and lots of players were kids at the time and were just retarded.
>>342754751
>wasnt there a way to get stuck in the original version, forcing you to reset and try again
no not at all, there is a hard to reach key in the water temple that people often miss.
all loz games have been made so you can't actually get stuck in the dungeons.
>>342754751
No, that's a shit rumor by people who don't know how to explore. All the dungeons in the game are designed so you literally can't get stuck.
I've done all the Temples in different ways and starting by all the possible locked door in different orders on my multiple playthroughs of the game. You can't get stuck in the Water temple.
>>342754319
>light dungeon
Huh? I thought you get that medallion for getting the master sword. Did I completely forget something?
>>342753036
it's a meme just like "le navi is annoying"
the only problematic part of the water temple is the sheer amount of fucking small keys you have to get every 10 meters, and since the dungeon is so vertical it feels like you are just trudging inside an hotel filled with water with pointless filler in between, mainly the water raising parts.
That said it has an amazing atmosphere and soundtrack, not to mention one of the coolest mini bosses in the game.
>>342755000
I forget the name of the dungeon (The one where you unlock ice arrow) but it is entirely possible to use keys in the wrong order to miss the item permanently. Good thing it's not a required item for clearing the game.
>>342755089
That's why he's confused
Playing it when you were 7 was fucking tedious, between the water levels and swapping iron boots on and off back and forth
>>342753948
Not making an image
>Deku Tree
Decent
>Dodongo's Cavern
Decent
>Jabu Jabu'Belly
Goodfor loli Ruto
>Forest Temple
Decent
>Fire Temple
Decent
>Water Temple
Annoying
>Shadow Temple
Not a fan
>Spirit Temple
Great
>Ice Cavern
Good when you know that you need bottle space ahead of time, annoying before
>Well
Decentwith a good amount of spook factor
>Training
Meh
>Ganon's Castle
Good
>>342755231
ice cavern
>>342755214
Navi is actually the most annoying companion though. That's why they changed Tatl's chime to a bell.
Was never a problem for me because I followed those Gamer Guides for this, Majora's Mask (got all the masks that way, first playthrough too), and a few other games. Shit was cash.
>>342755231
>>342755408
No. You get the Ice Arrows by completing a minigame in Gerudo Fortress.
Seriously, nothing in the game is "losable", you can't get stuck or use a key in the wrong order. The game is designed so that you can approach the doors in any order you want. Every locked door leads to another key.
>>342755231
>but it is entirely possible to use keys in the wrong order to miss the item permanently
i don't know but I doubt that very much.
unless there was a key behind the locked door that led to the ice arrows, but anyway that would be a 1 off in all of zelda games, and I do doubt it.
those dungeons are all play tested and carefully designed.
>>342753036
Fuck off Aonuma. Focus on listening to your bosses and making Zelda BotW a good game
>>342753036
It's a great temple, and one of the examples why Ocarina of Time has such excellent pacing as each temple is unique as having its own feel, gimmick and overall impact on the story
I find it a lot of fun, I never have it memorized so I'm always trying to figure out which room I missed, the dark link fight is fucking GOAT.
I don't even remember it
Probably wasn't that bad
My least favorite dungeon was shadow and I don't remember why
I loved Gordons and forest
Water Temple is the best dungeon in any 3D Zelda. Lakebed Temple from TP comes in 2nd.
>>342755653
I am a gorillian percent certain that the ice arrow can be missed. It happened to me as a kid, and happened to me in one of my replays as an adult, even after extensive googling
>Spooky mansion in the woods
>Dragon prison in a volcano
>Scary prison/tomb beneath the well of an unsuspecting village filled with illusions
>Ancient treasure-filled tomb/temple surrounded by constant sandstorm
>Le generic underwater temple
Water Temple objectively is shit, dude. The puzzles are simple and monotonous, Dark Link is an easy challenge that I already dealt with in Zelda 2, and the visual aspect is incredibly lazy.
>>342753036
Annoying to have to switch boots
Mostly the temple consists of narrow hall ways
Mini is really disappointing, (how were you supposed to know to not lock on?)
If you forget to grab a key you may have to backtrack to the main room find the key then go all the way back (Theres about 15 minutes of rooms to get to a locked room that holds the bosskey and if you forget or don't realize pick up this key you have to make another 15 minutes back, then to the bosskey room again than back again total of 1 hour. On top of this there is no way to know how many keys you will need)
Changing water levels also requires you to repeat the same rooms 5-10 times throughout the course of the dungeon
Much of the temple also takes place underwater which impedes movement
Stupid clam enemies
Not that much going for it compared to other dungeons, except for a pretty cool boss
worst dungeon item in the game
>>342755917
You have the taste of wet white bread.
Dark link is a fucking shit boss, though.
Swordfighting him is retarded and using the hammer just cheeses the fuck out of him.
Man, I wish I had that 3ds version, the framerate just kills me.
>>342755920
no anon it is just you are retarded, try it again in gerudo training grounds. there are invisible chests that have keys in there too. you need a lot of equipment to actually finish it but the ice arrows, or any item in the game is not missable.
this is from someone who has had all hearts and skutullas as a kid without a guide.
Hold teh fuck up
The forest temple is before the fire temple? i've always done the fire temple first
>>342755920
Sure, you can miss a ton of shit if you're not exploring, but you can't lock yourself out of anything.
There is a key for every door in Gerudo Valley. Like I said, you can do it in many different ways, and none of those ways lock you out of getting everything. It just feels like that because some keys are really hidden, but you can't screw yourself out of an item forever.
>>342756296
You're literally told to go to the forest temple by Shiekand possibly NaviBut I like how you can do some dungeons out of order, modern Zelda games should do this
>>342756296
why? navi bug you to go see saria
>>342756296
How? You need the fairy bow to complete the Fire temple.
>>342756451
wait nevermind, I'm retarded, Shiek tells you to go to Kakariko Village
>>342756580
You only need the Fairy Bow for one room and it just leads you to another room with a Map or Compass.
You do not need it to complete the dungeon
>playing water temple simulator 1995
>stop and play the next day
what the fuck am I doing
>>342756863
what
>>342756683
Ah, that's right, I don't think you need it to just complete the dungeon without the map.
>>342756863
u wot
>>342757142
>>342757272
as in "forget what should I do next or where should the water level be at"
>>342757434
start from the lowest water level and try to complete everything you can/unlock doors, then move the level up and repeat
>>342756083
I like that the center tower is basically a cool Pagoda.
>>342757434
Oh, right.
If there's one thing I learned from playing OoT multiple times is: ALWAYS do the Water Temple in one sitting.
Seriously.
>>342753036
Original Ruto is better than remastered Ruto.
OG Ruto:
>Statuesque figure.
>Strong musculature of a swimmer.
>Fully nude fish person.
>Wider fish head thing.
>Mischievous smile, with head tilted down slightly, and eyes looking up intently.
Remastered Ruto:
>Weak rounded shoulders and shorter figure.
>Soft body of a lazy land lady.
>Covered tits with fins that make her look like she's wearing a dress
>Fish head thing shaved on the ends.
>Generic cutesy mouth with unfocused eyes.
>>342759152
Agreed, but I like the "dress" aspect, its kind of cute.HW Ruto a best
>>342759457
hyrule warriors has the best designs of all characters i think
>>342759457
But HW Ruto falls into all the same traps as 3DS ruto.
The tit fins are lame on two levels. 1, they ruin the authenticity of the race, by trying to censor them. As creative as the tit fins may seem initially, it's really just censorship at the end of the day. They should be bold enough to stick with the nude design. And 2, the tit fins are facing the wrong way. They would actually catch and pocket water when she's swimming. They're should be coming from the top down. Not from the bottom up.
>>342753465
It is if you ever get stuck and have to retrace your steps and rethink what you're doing
returning to a room can take fucking ages with raising/lowering the water level and constantly opening the slow as fuck menu, navigating over to the boots, switching, going 3 steps to get in a tunnel, switching again etc
it adds up really fast where you have shitloads of game time of not actually playing but just dealing with tedium
>>342759152
OG Ruto in that scene gave me one of the most extreme youth-boners I've ever experienced
I was so fucking pissed that she just disappeared for the rest of the temple. It would have been cool to encounter her several times as she helped her "husband" through the Temple.She's probably the reason I like MGs
>>342755231
There's 2 ways to go get the ice arrows, and you get enough keys to go one way
>>342753036
the people that used to complain about it were children when the game was released, it became a meme for the kind of retarded adults that get zelda tattoos and watch adventure time.
>>342760761
nah its still shit
>>342760403
Yea, Ruto really should have been more of a help that temple.
A dream of mine, is for a Zelda game to have partner characters for everyone of their main dungeons. Like WW did with Makar and Medli. I don't know why they never revisited that idea. If they just made a dedicated partner switching button, and gave you full control over the partner whenever you wanted, then they could set up some amazing dungeons.
Imagine OoT, if Saria assisted you in the forest temple, Darunia assisted you in the Fire temple, Impa in the Shadow temple, etc...
Imagine finding a friendly iron knuckle in the spirit temple, it helps your through to the end, before the witches find out you, and forces your iron knuckle partner to fight you. And THEN you find out it was a brainwashed Nabooru defying orders.
>>342761376
>Wanting AI helpers
>>342761376
It would be ok if it was 99% less clunky than using makar and medli
>>342761376
Man that actually sounds really cool.
One of these fucking days we'll get a Zelda game with actual, interactive characters.
One thing I liked so much abount Majora's Mask was how the time-schedule actually made the npcs feel more.... alive.
I don't need Skyrim tier bullshit NPCs that spount nonsense constantly, but having like 6-8 characters that are core to the story and interact with you throughout the game is not much to ask.
Even RPGs suffer with this, where you recruit a character and then they fall by the wayside as others join and eventually completely run out of dialogue.
>>342762186
You controlled them in WW ya dingus.
>>342762282
Honestly they worked out really well considering how it must have been thrown in near the end.
>>342761376
They did revisit the idea in the DS games.
I think it goes against the premise of the series, though.
>>342762186
>AI
No. Just partners. That you control. It's actually more like having two characters. the most AI they might have, is following you when you call them to you, or defending themselves, if they happen to be near enemies. Other than that, they're just different figures, with different abilities, that offer more variety in dungeon puzzles.
>>342762483
>I think it goes against the premise of the series, though.
I don't. I remember playing with friends with sticks, and going into another world, via an imaginary portal, and fighting monsters together, while trying to complete whatever dumb objective we set up. I don't know why people have the idea that Zelda's premise if a solitary one.
Also, if I remember correctly, you couldn't actually control the partner directly in Spirit Tracks.
>>342755231
you missed a key somewhere because it's impossible to not complete gerudo fortress
by the way the ice cave gives you the iron boots
>>342756083
the Water Temple is a Water Filtering Facility
![latest[1].png](https://i.imgur.com/znrS5Lb.png "latest[1].png")
>>342756083
>>Le generic underwater temple
fuck your shit faggot, you researched lore only of the temples you like
Zora's place of worship of a snake deity that is literally shown to be lanayru later in TP which is a god damn light spirit is pretty foookin important, not to mention the dimension bending fuckery that goes inside it allowing link's shadow to become tangent, the vertical design of the dungeon also opens up a lot of possibilities for parallel features like moving blockades and water levels, but thanks to shitters crying it's never been done after in the series and zelda games as a whole became easier and easier after OOT.
>>342753036
I thought the water temple meme was that it was harder than the rest, not that it was bad/unenjoyable?
>>342761376
I just got a crazy idea.
They could implement helpers for shitters so the game is accessible while making them completely optional or for those days where you don't feel like using your brain cells, a bit like the mario galaxy helper, that way they can make dungeons truly challenging knowing full well that kids and shitters have a failsafe.
>>342764121
wasn't Lanaryu the Thunder Dragon?Weren't Faron, Eldin and Lanaryu all Dragons in SS? Why are they beasts in TP?Water Dragon is cute
>>342764379
Why would you make a feature everyone would want to use, be a method for casualizing the game?
What if you want the partner, because it's cool as fuck. But you still want the challenge?
>>342764602
The water dragon was like having a sexy Yandere mother.
>>342764704
I would have partners that you could talk to which brings up the option for:
Gossip: Random chit chat
Help: hints for how to clear the room you're in (casual option).
As for whether they help in battle or not could depend if you're playing on Normal or a Hard modeWe need more Master/Hero mode in Zelda games unlocked at the start
>>342753948
>Deku Tree
Boring
>Dodongo's Cavern
Good
>Jabu Jabu's Belly
Good
>Forest Temple
Great
>Fire Temple
Great
>Ice Cavern
Meh
>Water Temple
If it wasn't for constantly having to change boots, it would have been great.
>Well
Good
>Shadow Temple
Good
>Spirit Temple
Great
>Ganon's Castle
Great
I didn't have any trouble navigating the dungeon when I first played the game, which was about a year ago.
Is it some sort of meme to find this temple difficult? It barely registered for me. Not difficult or easy, just a little bland.
>>342765210
Battle? I'm not thinking about battles. I'm thinking about puzzles and complexity. Dungeon designs could be more intricate with partners, than they would be without. And sure, I suppose they could help in a fight. But that should be limiteed, so the player can't rely too much on the partner to get them out of sticky situations.
If partners were merely the easy mode option, then count me out. Terrible idea, in my opinion.
I think the most partners should say, is flavor dialog and lore. You go into a room, and the partner will point out objects, or scenery, or enemies, and give you tidbits of information that add a bit of depth to the temples. But beyond that, no casual helper options.
