I've been watching DOTA tournaments lately, and I've noticed that during the draft they have regular time and reserve time.
Can someone explain why you need reserve time when teams are already given plenty of time to pick and ban?
>>342621590
You clearly never played in tournaments
>>342621590
So they have more time to decide
"plenty of time" is relative, specially in a multi-million dollar tournament.
>>342621742
>>342621885
I've never played in Esports tourneys but I have played in sports tournaments all the way up till championship levels, even tried out for the Olympics didnt make it though.
But you never answered my question, in multi-billion dollar sports teams are given only a few seconds for time outs and substitutions and they get it right, why cant a few esports players who practice this game 12 hrs a day 5 days a week 365 a year be inable of picking and banning in a reasonable amount of time?
So nobody knows why reserve time is needed in DOTA 2?
>>342622442
because team composition is everything
in MOBAs and they're up against another team that practices 12 hours a day 5 days week 365 a year who are just as smart as them
>>342622950
Some captains are pretty indecise and start arguing with their team about what they should pick and whatnot. Sometimes they can't come up with a good strat or counterstrat in a single minute.
Try playing captain's mode once, become captain and you'll get a general idea on why reserve time is a thing.
>>342622442
"reasonable amount of time" is relative
some players would say X amount of time is enough, others would say Y.
some decisions on banning/picking are done quickly, while others requiere more time. decision-making over time becomes a meta-strategy during the picking/banning phase, so for example captains need to decide how much time they spend in each step as to get the better result.
>>342623124
>because team composition is everything
But isnt this true in every team sport?
Why would 5 minutes not be enough time for each team to pick and ban?
>>342623357
You need time to compensate for things that are unexpected/you didn't account for. You would understand why reserve time is important if you ever played in a tournament.
>>342623323
>>342623357
if the concept still bothers you dont think of it as to separte and exclusive entities, just change "reserve time" to "this would be over if you chose quicker, hurry the fuck up time"
>>342623696
I've played in sports tournaments. And example was when I was playing football and we studied a team for a week leading up too the game. Before they played us they ran a pistol offense which is a hybrid shotgun formation, so we practived against it and when game time came they ran the I formation, we were completely caught off guard and had seconds to adapt to their new formation.
If a bunch of dumb college athletes can adapt and over com in that case literal seconds why cant high IQ esports players do the same?
>>342624085
So your gonna tell me that Drafts wouldnt be more exciting if teams had to think on their feet?
>>342624126
Because as people have stated earlier, team composition is everything. Since heroes in Dota 2 vary so much, you have to consider where they may or may not fit into the game. Since I'm assuming none of those dumb college athletes were really that much different from each other, its much easier to change to new plays and formation because you can account for the fact that the enemy team are all humans and don't vary greatly.
ok so reserve time is there as backup time along with the 25 seconds per pick/ban
think of how like during a basketball game, you can call time-outs to quickly discuss bullshit with your team. that's reserve time. the actual pick/ban time is half time/the time between quarters.
when you blow out your reserve time, you're done with it. you have no more. just like if you blow away all of your time-outs.
as for why the reserve time is that much, nobody ever has a draft pre-planned for a game. it's all adaption, which requires a little bit more time than just a quick 10 second sequence.
>>342624389
It certainly would be exciting for the audience, but at the same time having more time to pick/ban builds a more complex strategy in the long run, which is intresting and adds complexity to the game. Also, If I was a captain I would like to have more time to think rather than less time.
Do you have any lewd stories of your teammates in the showe/locker room?
>>342623357
When you draft/ban heroes you're not just drafting roles for the players. You're drafting "tools" for you to use and predict what your opponent will go for. With each heroes picked and banned each phase there can always be decision to be made.
>>342624753
Gotcha
>>342624905
>It certainly would be exciting for the audience
This is all that matters. an excited audience is a paying audience, a paying audience leads to more sponsors, more sponsors leads to bigger paydays, which leads to more airtime, which leads to mainstream acceptance. Remember money is everything.
>>342623357
Try playing captain's mode once, really.
The first picks/bans are always done in less than a minute, they are picking and banning the most standard stuff, based on the strategy they might have on mind. In fact, every time there is already a general idea of what team is gonna be before the game starts.
However, things never seem to want to go like they were predicted. One single pick/ban, and the strategy thought before the match is impractible/unusable.
And here starts the fun: one guy bitches that the enemy's ban/pick doesn't matter and they should stick with their main strat. Another guy goes full panic because he fears that he has to play a hero he didn't want to, another one keeps spamming "lol we lost" or makes horrible puns and jokes, and then there's THAT guy that NEVER gives his imput EVER.
So the captain has to make all those guys happy, try to predict the enemies' strategy and counter that, while making up a viable team lineup that has a hero that the crybaby can use and also has to guess what the mute even if not muted guy can and wants to play, while also make himself happy AND make sure that his figure as "the captain" is solid and recognized.
Now, a 5 men team on a high level won't have this kind of problems ever, right? Well, judging by certain posts, interviews and media, I wouldn't be that sure. Also you have to remember that there is real big money involved, so the tension is high af and THAT is a big factor.
Also, it's not like they CAN'T come up with a reasonable strat without reserve time, it's more like "we have 2 minutes of reserve time, so instead of blindly picking earth shaker because they have a phantom lancer, let's discuss a couple seconds about what we should pick next, and, if the next picks don't make everyone happy, not pick earthshaker at all but another counter avaiable".
TL/DR: reserve time is a must have if you play with randoms/amatourish, is not truly a must have in high level tournaments, but it helps.
>watch a pro team with their voice chat
>they're all discussing what's going on at every point in the draft
>implying 5 people can come to a good decision without reserve time during every phase of a draft
>>342625368
There's an audience for everything, right? In this sense there's a sweet spot between those who want stuff to happen quickly and those who like to take their time to think. I'm guessing the dota audience is in that spot, make it shorter and you'll lose some audience, make it longer and you'll lose another part.
>>342625687
>>342625568
Sounds like they are running their team like a democracy which is a big no no in regular sports.
If a team has a dedicated captain or head coach, then ultimatly he has the final say on EVERYTHING, if one player goes against the grain and the team loses that player is benched, conversely if the captain is an idiot then he needs to be removed.
But still captain is the captain for a reason, he is the dictator in chief.
>>342626082
Good point, though I think they would be able to bring more people in due to the hype from the announcers when a team picks a hero on the fly halfway through the draft.
