So what's /v/ 's thhoughs on this? Is a step forward or a huge step backwards.
If this is NX's only gimmick then I'm fine with it but this on top of a silly controller would have me thinking thrice
Would honestly be extremelycomfy.
I imagine load times would be shorter
And that's about it, I don't have a strong preference either way
>>342501492
Flash memory is really fast compared to disks. In this day and age, their storage capacity should be comparable to that of a bluray. It'll probably be more expensive to manufacture, however.
>>342501492
Back before CDs it was a good way to store data but only in small amounts, CDs showed up and could hold more data for cheaper so it was a no brainer. However its now relatively cheap for pretty big flash drivers, and with how much data can be moved faster it makes it a logical step. The games will probably cost more to cover manufacture costs though.
We're already at the point where consoles game need to be installed on hard drives anyway. Might as well just have permanent memory for them.
Personally I like cartridges more. They feel more durable then Cds and I can just have them in a drawer a lined up and neat. Honestly as long as the games are good and there are no "You can only use gyroscope to aim" Bullshit then it will be fine.
no noise + short loading time is a godsend.
from their point of view, it has 2 advantages : a port cost less than a disck reader, and you can put minimal disk inside the system since you really only save the OS and DLC/patches (even though I could see modern flash drives to have a mix of read only/write memory to keep some data inside it as well.
I used to want a future on disks. For a while before the Japanese tsunami flash memory was getting real big real fast and cheap too. Prices were dropping like crazy but they went up after the disaster and have stayed
not confirmed but i welcome this change if true
>yfw nx is the new handheld and using cartridges isnt suprising at all
>>342501492
id like if they keep the wii motion aiming
>>342502079
why do they need to?
>>342502027
>Is it easier for third parties to put games on drives than discs?
>Would they be willing to do so when they can sell their games cheaper and make more profit on other disc based systems?
>>342501492
I always liked cardridges so I'm happy with that.
As long the prices don't skyrocket I'm happy with that. This is not a gimmick.
>>342501492
The biggest problem about cartridges today than snes is that flash drives only store information. Cartridges for snes were the powerhouse and allowed for expansion chipsets to take away the workload from the 65c chipset. A flash drive is pointless you're better off with digital
Cartridges are objectively superior to discs in the present day. Back in the 90s, discs could hold more and were a lot cheaper (which is why consoles switched to them). But now, neither of those things are an issue. Cartridges would be slightly more expensive to manufacture, but the cost of the media a game is distributed on is negligible compared to the cost of developing and marketing the game. That's why digital games are the same price as physical games for consoles. On top of this, cartridges are more durable, have faster load times and are much quieter.
There really is no reason for a consumer to prefer disks to cartridges unless their first console was a PS1 and they feel nostalgic for it (and that's not even an objective reason).
>>342502642
Third parties won't care anyway because CoD and AssCreed still won't sell well on the platform.
>>342502742
it's not a gimmick per se but it's defitely something that makes them stand out from their competitors and makes 3rd parties have to consider additional things when making games for them
won't cartridges give third parties reason to not give a shit about the nx? unless nintendo's willing to pay for the manufacture costs for multiplats or 3rd party exclusives, (which they should as they're in a desperate position) I can't see this going well
>>342502573
I thought Nintendo said it wouldn't be a console or handheld. It would be something in between.
This seems like a pretty good way to ensure no third party support for another generation.
I'm getting sick of NX "theorizing".
The only things we 100 percent know about the system is the name, and that it's gonna have a fresh new gimmick. Everything else is just dumb rumors, weird patents that probably aren't related, and gamedevs saying "whoah... so this is the power.... of the nx....."
>>342502976
>but the cost of the media a game is distributed on is negligible compared to the cost of developing and marketing the game
But the most expensive games ever produced are so because of manufacturing costs. Capcom spent half a billion making SFII carts, Nintendo spent hundreds of millions making SMW, etc.
>>342503016
At the end of the day companies go with the system that's guaranteed to make them a profit. NX might, I repeat might, not be a failure but it certainly won't leap to the number 1 spot and be so dominant it can't be ignored
>>342503016
Demographics are already the reason they won't care.
>>342503016
>won't cartridges give third parties reason to not give a shit about the nx?
no. 3rd party gets a fixed income on the sales they don't give a shit about the over all price. even if a card cost 5$ instead of 1$ that's not going to change much. (also remember blue ray is proprietary so you pay a really shitty license price alongside the pure print cost)
>>342503132
>"The NX is neither the successor to the Wii U nor to the 3DS", said Kimishima
>>342503016
if that were the case why are 3rd parties making games for the 3DS? the only thing it might affect are western multiplats and who buys a nintendo console for that?
>>342503132
source? they didnt say that
>>342503217
source on the "fresh new gimmick"?
>>342503152
It was never going to, 3rd party AAA blockbusters don't and still won't sell on a Nintendo platform and that's all they want to make.
>>342503413
Thank you anon.
>>342503480
I said [thought] anon.
>>342503217
At least all these rumours have confirmed to the gaming audience that this is definitely a new and different system unlike the debacle going from Wii to Wii U
It would allow them to make a smaller quieter console i would hope, but its Nintendo so I wouldn't put money on them not fucking it up somehow.
>>342503480
https://mynintendonews.com/2016/05/16/nintendo-reiterates-that-nx-is-a-new-way-of-playing-games/
>>342503016
The Japanese third parties that supported the 3DS are probably on board with the NX anyway.
>>342502621
Improved loading times and smoother transferring of information.
>>342502050
Well since it's going to effectively be a tablet in a console box, the games shouldn't cost more than $0.99 normally, so if they end up costing $1.99 because of flash memory then I guess that's not so bad.
>>342503493
I don't really see any reason the nx couldn't be getting vanillaware games or something. But a cartridge format kind of puts a damper on that.
>>342503728
yes and that can be done with carts
>>342501492
Much beter for the longevity of the games
>>342501492
Well 3DS style carts would make sense considering its going to have a handheld component. You can't very well carry a bunch of blu-ray discs in your pocket, but a couple small carts works just fine.
>>342503721
this can be interpreted in a number of different ways
>>342503969
>its going to have a handheld component
source?
>>342502781
Then it's no different than a disc. I don't see why that somehow makes flash memory pointless considering you still get the advantages of faster load times and less operational noise.
So no backwards compatibility then? Haven't really been following the NX
>carts dont have load times
>carts dont have lag
When will people stop spouting this bullshit.
Carts will never be faster in this day and age. Games are too massive for it to happen.
>>342503217
>the only thing we know 100% is the name
We don't even know that yet. NX is a development code name, it's not going to be the name of the actual retail release of the console.
>>342504229
lol
>>342504076
I suppose. I just don't like the words "new way to play" He could've just said that it's not a successor to the WiiU/3DS, but he chose those words specifically. Hopefully it was just lost in translation.
>>342503413
I believe they said something similar to that effect regarding the DS. I don't really buy that whole "third pillar" thing.
>>342503223
It's no longer the 90s anymore, manufacturing prices have decreased a lot. More money goes into marketing and paying the wages of the huge development teams and voice acting cast.
3DS games use cartridges, do you think they are more expensive to make than Wii U games?
If NX is a handheld, why are they releasing Dragon Quest XI on 3DS as well? That seems a bit redundant.
>>342504229
The fuck are you talking about? Flash memory will ALWAYS be faster than an optical drive or a hard drive because there's no physical seek time. It's the whole concept behind SSDs.
>>342501492
We can make chips smaller than a fingernail that can hold 200GB or more now. The only reason to use discs is lower production costs.
I'd be all up for cartridges - easier to store, faster load times, quieter console. Only issue is the cost.
>>342503016
will yakuza-san ever be in a nintendo direct?
>>342504401
even if it is a gimmick controller i hope its a good way to actually play games. "hardcore" gamers should stop being scared of anything that isnt a dualshock or something
>>342502976
>There really is no reason for a consumer to prefer disks to cartridges unless their first console was a PS1 and they feel nostalgic for it (and that's not even an objective reason).
Well, on /v/ at least, that is a very strong possibility. Many are still stuck in 1994.
>>342504414
It's just PR talk. They have to say it's not replacing the current hardware because they want people to buy the current stuff still.
That's why it's so weird that Phil Spencer announced Scorpio at E3. He basically told everyone to not buy a Xbone or Xbone S because there's a next-gen console coming out next year.
>>342501492
Carts will be interesting, the technology for electronic flash memory has advanced exponentially since the n64 days. The way I see it:
Pros:
-no noise
-less electricity usage
-significantly less heat produced
-much faster load times
-memory capacity of a bluray at this point
-comfy nostalgia
-easier to keep clean and working, much less prone to accidents (I've heard that the ps4 and bone can still ring your disc if they're bumped during a read cycle)
Cons:
-higher production cost, nx games might be as much as 70 or 75 base price
-won't be any multiplats, no company is going to make a cartridge version along with a disc version, especially with how dangerous the industry is today and how the high budget studios are too terrified to make anything but a safe game so they can be sure to make their money back, there's no way in hell any of them would spend the respurces to port a game to a cartridge
I can't really think of any other cons, and those two aren't really cons for me because I never buy the nintendo version of multiplats anyway, come to think of it, multiplats are never on the wiiu anyway to begin with so it will be business as usual
>>342504757
I'm not afraid of a new controller, I'm afraid of Nintendo ushering in a new age of "DUDE MOTION CONTROLS LOL"
>>342504192
I agree they should have ssd which are faster than both. When you use to buy a game it was the finalized product but now physical media is dead. The only problem is the market place is controlled by the console manufacturer so its either Nintendo products never go on sale or you have the inverse steam market place which is 99% trash
>>342503957
really dude?
http://superuser.com/questions/251369/what-is-the-lifespan-of-dvd-and-blu-ray-discs
>>342504962
Well, I wouldn't worry about that. The motion control fad is dead now. What everyone is saying now is "DUDE VR LOL".
>>342504712
Is Nintendo smart enough to build the humor around how serious he looks? That could be the new gimmick, Kimishima's answer to Iwata's warm friendliness.RIP sweet prince ;-;
>>342504962
I think that NX still have support for Wii accessories and gamepad.
Wiimote and gamepad is too good to throw away like nothing.
>>342504687
i don't mind the cost if nintendo starts putting real value into their games again. they will be worth the price.
>>342504962
this is what im talking about. motion and pointer controls were really effective for a lot of games.
>>342501492
I'll start buying physical again.
>>342505270
maybe not the gamepad. nobody likes it. its crap, it was a mistake
>>342501492
>cartridges are a gimmick
You have to be 18 to post here, son.
>>342505128
Isn't laser rot still a concern though?
>>342505131
>>342505270
Sorry, I worded that weird. I didn't mean motion controls specifically, but rather some NEW NX-based gimmick that's just as dumb, but every company still tries to make their own version of it.
>>342505131
They should upgrade the pro controller fot NX and put Gyro, vibration and a headphone port in it then it'll be as solid a controller as the dualshock and x-box one. Fix the analog sticks as well.
Unfortunately I doubt they'll do that and will chose to make some weird gimmicky shit
>>342505672
Adherence to cartridges for the n64 was a really bad business decision in retrospect and I'm surprised they would trot them out again.
>>342505672
going back to them when everyone else is using discs. It's bold at the very least
>>342505667
>crap
Nigga, off screen play and gyro is pretty good.
Also, map and some hud stuff can have some use on gamepad. It's just wasted potential.
>>342505715
It's already a superior controller as is. 80 hour battery life and a control stick that doesn't crumble away after a little bit of use. Rumble would be nice though.
>>342505980
its wasted money because nobody likes it. why would they bother
>>342505667
>>342505980
This.
If I'm gonna be honest, I hated the Wiimote more than the gamepad.
>>342505980
>no wii u dungeon crawler in the vein of etrian odyssey
The gamepad has stupid amounts of wasted potential.
>>342501492
what is the NX?
>>342506340
How's that rock been treating you Anon?It's Nintendo's new console.
>>342505864
partly carts but also the bad games they made for the n64. the gamecube used discs and sold less than the n64. adhering to carts didnt make their handhelds fail when the PSP was using discs. they only need to make good games
>>342506491
i've never heard of it before i saw this thread
>>342506121
>>342506217
Even Aonuma hates the damn thing:
“We realised that having something on the GamePad and looking back and forth between the TV screen and the GamePad actually disrupts the gameplay, and the concentration that the game player may be experiencing. You have your car’s GPS system on your dash. If you had it down in your lap, you’re going to get into an accident!”
>>342504548
Yeah, I wonder why anyone would want to sell a game on a system that already has over 50 million users instead of relying entirely on a brand new system that will spend years getting there if it sells at all.
>>342501492
>Catridge
Considering it will probably be something closer to pic related, I'm fine with the idea. Even a miniature solid state drive could work really well.
>>342506658
>gamecube used mini-discs*
>>342506742
The problem is make a good use of it. Not the damn thing. I'm pretty sure that EO or even a Card game like yugioh can make a nice use of gamepad.
>>342506775
You're right, an NX release is completely redundant.
>>342506742
By this logic the DS is like a GPS
>>342506742
Isn't the NX pretty much guaranteed to have the same retarded controller since things like Zelda will be cross between the two consoles?
>>342506970
>>342506217
they could make whatever game you wanted for the wii u to make "nice use of the gamepad" and it will still be a shit game that sold a whopping 400 copies. the wii u and its gamepad are crap, forget about it. put it away forever. NX is what people are actually excited about
>>342506658
It wasn't a for a lack of good games, as they were there, at least first party. It was for a lack of third party support.
>>342502079
This, majority of games have mandatory install before you can play them. That being said, I don't know if it's because the BD players are too slow, or to not kill it to quickly.
>>342503132
>>342503413
>The Nintendo DS system is going to be the third pillar of Nintendo hardware, coexisting with our handheld and console hardware
And look where we are now.
>>342507069
He's talking about Breath of the Wild in that interview. The game doesn't use any gamepad specific functions, and you can use the pro-controller for the game, which in that case, the map will take a spot on the screen.
>>342507069
Many games on the Wii U are built to make use of the Wii U Pro controller, and other controller setups. Do you honestly believe that Zelda only runs on the tablet? I believe someone even mentioned the classic controller being used for the game too.
>>342507137
The key success of a new thing is show how the fucking thing work.
People didn't bought wii because omg waggle, because they had a games that makes use of the damn wiimote.
Think outside of the box faggot
>>342505136
They said he was temporary until they groom the next one.
He's just holding the fort
>>342507486
People (mostly consisting of the casual market) bought the Wii because it filled the casual niche when there wasn't one (before smartphone and Facebook games really took off)
>>342507643
Is it possible for them to make the leader of NoE Nintendo's next CEO? That guy seems pretty based.
>>342507069
Zelda seems to have scrapped damn near all opportunities to use the gamepad. The gamepad can only be used for offscreen play and doesn't constantly show:
>the map
>your inventory
>what you have equipped and it's stats
>doesn't use the touchscreen
>barely uses motion and it's optional
>show you what you picked up rather than it popping up on the big screen
>etcetera etcetera
>>342507069
They said in an interview that they're straining away from the Wii series of consoles, so I doubt it.
>>342507643
“Also, something I think that maybe was misunderstood previously was, there was talk about me being around for one year. What that was, is the board of directors, as a member of the board, the term is for one year. And at the next shareholders meeting we have to be reconfirmed as board members. That happens on a yearly basis, but there was never any meaning that I would only be president for one year in that conversation.” - Kimishima
What sort of memory type would they use to store the games? Flash or ROM? what would be a better choice in the long run?
>>342501492
Flash memory is only very slightly more expensive than BDs now
Without an optical drive the console can be smaller, quieter and cheaper.
It's also much faster than a BD and, depending on the tech used, could be faster than a HDD.
>>342507780
I think they are just going use gamepad like windwaker.
>>342507450
>>342507459
>>342507780
>>342507835
Holy shit nice. Faith in Nintendo slightly restored.
I'm staying the fuck away from their consoles until they stop it with the retarded gimmicks.
>>342507069
Zelda is Pro Controller compatible, so maybe not
Obviously its playing to nostalgia for Nintendo and it will be interesting to see what happens
I think its a super backwards compatible system. bringing in all cartiages and systems together. Its why they are so pissy about emulators and stuff. Hilariously this will most likely make everything easier to work with. They have claimed the Wii U will still remain relevant which makes me think it might be an addon system that connects everything together. boosting power of existing things more than just it being the replacement
>>342507883
I heard that it was ROM based.
>>342508047
This is stupid.
Nintendo's had virtual console for years is why they're so pissy about emulators
>>342507069
yeah that totally stopped them with TP bringing it to 3 different consoles with different controllers
>>342507192
>muh 3rd party support meme
the wii sold well without 3rd party support. they need good games, that's it. nintendo have always been about the games.
>>342507486
you dont need to think outside the box faggot the difference is the gamepad isn't a wii remote. its a huge ipad that has a whopping 3 hours of battery life that you have to keep looking down to see. it didnt and will never take off like the wii remote did, you can make whatever game you wanted with it and it will still be shit, just accept it. throw it in the garbage where it belongs.
>>342507998
The NX has a massive gimmick from what Nintendo are saying.
Nobody has any idea what it is (which is unusual given the how Nintendo's gimmicks are always strongly rumoured). The language from Nintendo is pointing towards the NX actually being an OS/platform rather than a singular console.
>>342505136
he doesn't need humor built around him. he's a business man not a clown (no disrespect to Iwata may he RIP), that's what nintendo need right now and he's going to transform the company to a new golden era
>>342508213
>the wii sold well without 3rd party support.
It's time to stop with this meme. The Wii was a fluke that caught the casual audience before smartphones exploded onto the scene. When Nintendo lost them to tablets and phones, they tried desperately to grab them and the core audience back with the Wii U.
>>342508047
>might be an addon system
Feel free to explain how you would accomplish this with your only connection to the system being sluggish USB 2.0 ports. The Wii U is not built with expansion in mind.
>>342508047
>Its why they are so pissy about emulators and stuff.
Or because emulators dig into their VC sales.
>>342508593
if the Wii U gamepad had been a proper tablet controller rather than this chunky thing it might have grabbed some of those tablet/mobile fans or at least been bought by parents who didn't trust their kids with actual smart phones/tablets
>>342508496
>he's going to transform the company to a new golden era
Whoa there, cowboy. You're getting ahead of yourself with that one.
>>342508175
VC doesn't offer everything which is the general defense by people. along with them owning the games and back up. yeah they want to sell everything to the point of selling the same game to you 3 times so you can play it. As for old games Gamestop has also said it will have something to do with their preowned bussiness which points to Backwards compatiblity
>>342508496
I wonder if he'll be as cold and calculating as Yamauchi was
>>342502742
>>342501492
Actually, not just speed benefits. You can modify cartridges if necessary to make games look better than the system allows. That whole cloud processing bullshit Xbone was hoping for never could do that. But this could be the answer to all this mid-generation high power console releases. Instead, just release games with more powerful chips halfway through the console cycle and games can run and look better.
>>342508496
>he's gonna bring Nintendo back to the golden age!
I wish I could be that optimistic.
>>342508496
Iwata was a programmer and helped in a lot of games. But I think it's better show up and have a bit more charisma with public than getting in the office just doing whatever the fuck needs to do.
>>342508593
you have no idea what you're talking about. the wii was a smart, blue-ocean business decision that Iwata had been cooking up since the gamecube was failing. they had the same philosophy with the DS, why does nobody call the DS a fluke?
and the wii u wasn't desperately trying to win the wii audience back, despite the name. nothing they said supports this baseless claim. the wii u is almost a polar opposite of the wii. nobody likes the gamepad and the games weren't made to appeal to casual gamers so stop talking shit.
>>342509054
>I think it's better show up and have a bit more charisma with public
This focus has belonged to people that have actively ruined Nintendo like Iwata and Reggie. Having a CEO that isn't focused on distractions makes it feel like he is rather focused on making Nintendo succeed again. His reign in the US wasn't a bad one either.
>>342509040
So, kind of like what Nintendo did with SNES. Adding chips like Super FX to future proof the console. Neat
>>342504867
I honestly hope, though, that the cartridges go all the way into the system. You can still bump cartridges on accident on SNES and Genesis and itll fuck the game up and/or freeze.
>>342509674
i want it front loaded so i can stack my consoles
>>342501492
I would love cartridges desu. If they can pull it off, I'd be pretty happy physical autistic collector.
>>342509674
I imagine they've already thought about this and took the appropriate steps. There wasn't any way to fuck up the carts in the NES, right? Why didn't they just make them like that? I never understood the logic of top loaders other than seeing what game is in them.
How big would cartridges be realistically? Like 3DS carts or what?
>>342509604
Yeah. Pretty much. It wouldn't cost anons anything extra since by the time that tech is ready it'll be 3 years into the cycle and about as cheap as the cartridge originally was or cheaper.
And while I'm not too happy about this idea, it would make it harder to emulate the system and its games. Reverse engineering for all these special chips adds on to the task of emulation. As a result they'll enjoy longer term freedom from piracy I assume.
>>342510048
For a big console?
I think that should be small as some SSD.
>>342510189
Is that why Nintendo held onto cartridges for so long? To this day, N64 emulation is far from perfect.
>>342510048
probably somewhere between DS carts and thumb drives
any bigger than that and its just taking up space. N64 size at absolute largest
>>342509580
Iwata transformed the company with the wii and ds and reggie doesnt do anything so how have they actively ruined nintendo
I remember Mona Fan predicting this would happen, but that it would be Wii U using cartridges.
>>342510367
i think that has more to do with n64 console hardware, not the rom carts
>>342510403
Reggie is good with marketing, but is a shit Boss for NoA.
NoA need someone with more experience or knows the stuff.
>>342510537
Oh, alright. So how much would the cartridges theoretically cost us anyway? About the same as they did before?
>>342501492
I always though everyone was fucking stupid for not just using flash memory USB sticks.
Surprising to see nintendo being practical considering they just did that useless tablet shit on their last console. Maybe they learned their lesson for real.
>>342510698
I dunno about memory, but CDs and DVDs in bulk cost low as 0.03.
>>342508268
If NX is merely an OS/platform then they'll fail. That's similar to Windows having UWP. Its shit and restrictive. Why would any PC user swap to something that closed and locked off when they could just not. And it would make it far easier for people to just crack and play their games with mods where they wouldn't have been able to through the proprietary software.
>>342510698
i would think they wouldn't want to charge more than $60. i remember NES games costing up $70 and the prices didn't go down
>>342510653
Yeah, he is a good marketer, I'll give him that. Still, he comes off as a little obnoxious sometimes. I hate when he just says shit like "What more do ya want?!", as if consumers are in the wrong for asking for more products. Just doesn't build up good will with the company.
>>342510992
That's true but you're also adding an annoying bulky DVD/bluray drive into your system and you have to have use external memory anyways since there's not enough room on the disk to actually support all the necessary data.
Also, they're easier to break and a hassle to deal with.
DVDs and CDs are pretty awful honestly and I've always hated them. They were practical for like 12 years but that time has now passed.
>>342510403
Japanese business is known for looking at long term approaches. The Wii and DS were short term fixes that had no feasible way to carry on long term. The problem comes after that short term fix. He went back to the Japanese mindset of making a long term plan, but did so with a short term fix.
You only saw him as a success because you are used to the western marketplace where if someone makes billions one year, then bankrupts their company the next, they are a massive success.
>reggie doesnt do anything
Except actively trying to go against the tide on what gets localized, and how it gets localized.
>>342511256
he can't really say anything that his japan bosses dont want him to say, so he has to constantly big up the games even if they're failures
>>342503921
That's what he said in his original post you idiot
>>342511316
The problem is give a reason to make all those third parties switch to carts.
Sure its better for consumer but bad for companies, no AAA dev/publisher will put something that sell at loss.
>>342504449
Development costs really aren't much higher either adjusted for inflation. FF7 for example would have had a development budget of around 70 million if it were made today and another 100 million in marketing.
>>342507367
https://youtu.be/uZWKuUymKdM
>>342511453
>The Wii and DS were short term fixes that had no feasible way to carry on long term
what do you mean? if course they wouldn't carry on long term because there's a new console generation every 5 or 6 years. the only lasting philosophy they have is making great software. it made the NES and SNES succeed and with the same philosophy Iwata made the wii and DS succeed.
>>342511880
Dev costs seems more inflated in west.
Mostly because those faggots make games like a production line, keep sending game back and forth between studios. Also marketing.
>>342511860
It's not really all that much more expensive though.
Flash drives or direct download are really the only good ways to distribute games now. Yea, it'll add 5$ to every single game but you're already dealing with an extremely high margin product that is almost entirely profit.
You may also want to consider the fact that walmart, target etc. doesn't need to use as much shelf space which is easily worth 5$ alone.
>>342511453
Japanese businesses are certainly good with long term business strategies, but man are they behind in technology. When I was living there, it was like stepping back into the 1990s. Their trains and toilets were about the only advanced things they had.
One mindset I wish they'd change is their stubbornness to hold onto the past.
>>342511860
>no AAA dev/publisher will put something that sell at loss.
It doesn't cost 5 cents to produce a bluray and $50 to produce a cartridge. The cost difference will not be great enough to justify selling on one system or another. The only problem Nintendo can possibly have is going up against a significantly larger install base since they are creating a new console in the middle of the other 2 console's cycles. I imagine that unless Nintendo starts spending money like M$, they will be lax in games in the first few years, then spike when the other console cycles come to an end.
>>342511860
3rd parties have no problem with carts on the handheld systems. the wii showed nintendo doesnt need 3rd parties to sell well. if the NX sells, 3rd parties will be begging to have their games on it. it's not nintendo's concern right now
>>342512521
you think the american babyboomers are bad? the japanese ones are infinitely worse
>>342503132
Tbqh it's probably gonna be some gimmick it's just a re-modeled Wii u and 3ds melded together in terms of software.
I.E. The 3ds bit acts as both the controller and streams from the Wii u bit. When you take it away from the Wii u bit it is its own handheld.
Like I said before it'll just be a handheld and console that have software which integrates with eachother,
>>342512978
You got that right. I had a friend there who owned this restaurant, and he was using fucking cassette tapes to play music. Guy was in his 60s but he acted way older than he was. Only music he had playing was some shit from the 80s.
>>342512529
>they will be lax in games in the first few years,
They got lazy in the first year of WiiU and see what happend. Nintendo needs put pressure with games right off the bat or stuff is going be awful fast.
>>342503016
Absolutely not. If it's cheap enough to not cut into the publishers' profits too much, then the advantage vs. discs is negligible because you'd have to install the game anyway due to the cartridges being slow as piss, and if it's fast enough to make a difference then either the publishers are getting jack shit for money or NX titles will retail beyond the 100 dollar mark. It's a lose-lose scenario.
>>342512295
The console wasn't the fix anon. The target audience was the fix. They switched to targeting an audience that they can't hope to keep engaged. The software is now being designed with them in mind too. Take for example Mario Party and Paper Mario. Instead of working on a solid foundation for the games, they try to fill them with gimmicks. Gimmicks that are only going to target the people that are no longer buying their games. Their new target audience is on cell phones and tablets. I will give them credit for making mobile games, but they need to ignore that audience for their consoles, and make mobile games its own seperate entity.
They need solid gameplay for the "core" audience, and a powerful enough system for the rest of the crowd. No more gimmicks.
Cartridges are more expensive than discs, this would be a problem since I'm pretty sure they'd use it as a justification to increase the price of new games from $60 to $70.
>>342513507
Honestly I meant from a 3rd party perspective. I expect that they will try to pump out a lot more from their 1st party, and they will probably improve on their 3rd party support, but 3rd party support probably won't catch on entirely until a few years later when install base is no longer a problem.
>>342513507
Ok so we've got Zelda and rumours of 2d Mario like we've never seen before. Seems pretty shitty as far as launches go so far
>>342513645
Those small and gimmick games make money for Bigger games.
>>342513645
these are just stupid guesses based on a very ignorant analysis. you don't know what you're talking about. their blue ocean strategies could very well work for them again like they did with the NES and Wii as long as they have valuable software. and no, they don't need a powerful console either. they never have
It's a cheaper and more effective alternative to making a powerhouse of a console that retails for 599 US dollars.
>>342514125
their dev teams are obviously not making wii u games. they're keeping everything a secret. what do you think they're doing? the NX will have a great launch. even if they don't have a bunch of software right off the bat, all the wii needed was zelda and wii sports
>>342514125
It's already a better launch than that shitty minigame compilation and NSMBU. They should have opened with Zelda from the start.
>>342503002
>yes let's give even less reasons for 3rd party developers to care about this thing, its gonna be great
>faster
>more durable
>no moving parts on console
im all for it
>>342504867
Multiplat game developers aren't the ones writing their software to physical media in the first place.
This is done by a third party.
The only difference is after they send out the drives containing their game, it's put onto proprietary read-only solid state media instead of a BD.
In other words, it will have absolutely no impact on third party titles appearing on NX.
>>342514125
Retro is busy with something else.Monolith is busy too maybe with another xenoblade game.
>>342514397
That is the point, the problem is always software and not hardware. Get Killer App or 2 and bam, instant profit.
>>342503389
>even if a card cost 5$ instead of 1$ that's not going to change much
holy shit do you even read what you post
in a business of selling millions of copies, 4 dollars less per copy means you lose 20 million dollars because of cartridges, say if you game sold 5 million, a moderate number these days
carts could also means more expensive games because they'll pass the cost to consumers
>>342506926
confirmed to work pretty damn well too.
t. wiiu pirate
>>342506926
But carts cost so much more, the consumer will be paying 500 dollars for each game Nintendo is doomed I tell you doomed!
>>342515167
Handheld systems don't have competition, it has been Nintendo's only playground, and Sony is pretty much leaving the market. They don't have a cheaper option. With consoles they're already developing for disc based systems, now you think they won't care about having costs increased because of Nintendo's decision to go with cartridges?
Third party devs left Nintendo en masse when the N64 went with cartridges and the Playstation had cheap as shit CDs. Even with the higher piracy on the PS1 they enjoyed cheaper production costs.
Also the Wii was clearly an anomaly compared to the hardware sales of N64, GC and Wii U.
>>342515329
If that were the case, 3DS cartridges would be a lot more expensive than they are now.
>>342506926
You're telling me they won't put every game on an SLC SSD? Scandalous!
>>342515653
cartridges were well behind CDs back then. moderately priced cartridges now blow BluRay out of the water, and cheapie ones are comparable in performance and price
>>342515653
Phones are pretty huge competition these days.
>>342515825
The 3DS carts don't have enough storage to have a 20GB+ console games, bigger carts would be more expensive and they have to compete against consoles that use discs and offer a cheaper production cost system.
>>342515931
They would still be more expensive than blurays.
>>342515653
more guesswork. "clearly an anomaly" was brought on by their 1st party software philosophy, not by carts. GC and Wii U use discs.
nintendo don't need 3rd parties to sell well they just need to make good games. 3rd parties are an afterthought
>>342514329
>their blue ocean strategies could very well work for them again
You have customers, potential customers, and non-customers. Non-customers consist of people that are not repeat shoppers. You may be able to garner their attention for a little bit, but they are a non-customer for a reason. You say it can work again, but it didn't even work the first time. The Wii created a bunch of one time sales, not consumers. A good portion of those people will never participate in the same strategy again. The Wii U was a second attempt, and a complete failure.
The proof is in the evidence we have, not your imagination.
>>342516147
15 cents compared to 35?
i can find 4 gb thumbdrives in a bowl at a gas station for 2 bucks now
>>342516147
How much more expensive? It can't be that much.
>>342516190
The problem is that Nintendo itself is a massive competition for third parties on their consoles. Third parties hates competition and other consoles just have a casual halo and uncharted.
>>342503217
No we do not know name Reggie confirmed NX is not real name.
>>342515954
they're not dedicated handhelds, yes they affect the market but on handhelds it has always been it's either nintendo or nothing, the console market has alternatives
>>342516213
If you read the graphics that show that their home consoles were selling less and less after the SNES, and the Wii sold far more than any other, then what do you call it? All those people are gone and the Wii stands out as an outlier, or do you call it the norm?
>>342506926
SSDs have a shelf life though, that would be an awful idea.
>>342501492
Will happen eventually. If Nintendo can convince someone to give them a good deal manufacturing them and give 3rd parties good dev kits based on it, I say go for it.
>>342516741
disc rotseriously though. with the planned obsolesce prevalent in all tech nowadays, this is just a given and would not affect the decision
>>342501492
Cartridges would be great
Enjoy your load times opticucks
Costs for switching to cartridges should not be astronomical. In the current state of things, stores make a huge profit on vidya. I would consider it likely that the publishers would pass on this small cost increase to the sellers. This particular subject should be a moot point, not a huge debate.
>>342516978
>planned obsolesce
PS360 sold a lot but a good chunk of those sales are for replace the damn console. PS2 drive was shit too. Ironic because Nintendo consoles rarely brick or have some shit that breaks easy.
>>342516397
>>342516413
Even if it's like 2 dollars more than a bluray, those games are supposed to sell by the millions, so you're not earning millions of dollars even with a small increase in production costs.
>>342516190
>nintendo doesn't need 3rd parties
When they had third parties in the NES/SNES era they were dominant over the market, when the N64 lost support they clearly were shoved aside. Yeah the Wii sold a lot, but where are the other 100 million people who bought one now? They sure aren't buying Wii Us. The cart decision on N64 meant they lost Square and Final Fantasy VII which required bigger storage that the carts could offer. I'm sure they didn't enjoy being more expensive to sell a game on the N64 compared to the PS1 too.
>>342516650
Cellphones are that alternative though, one that a lot of people are opting to use these days. Shit even when Gamegear existed as an alternative it still didn't sell all that well compared to Gameboy. There has to be more to this than "Nintendo has no competition".
>>342517192
not really speaking of the relatively shoddy quaility of the last gen, fair point though.
i'm more speaking of things like the Scorpio, which was likely being worked on the same month the Xbone came out, if not sooner. PS5 was in development soon after the PS4, and who knows how long the NX has been in dev
things are being replaced just as soon as they come out
>>342516213
the evidence we have doesn't support your shit analysis though. the NES had the same blue-ocean strategy that had games that appealed to a wide range of people. it had arcade-like games on it, RPGs, and sports games, anything that would appeal to all people. it also had shit hardware for its time. the wii was another attempt at the blue ocean strategy. the wii u is almost the polar opposite of the wii philosophy. nobody likes the gamepad or the wii u games.
mentioning the hardware power and thinking the wii u is anything like the wii proves you don't know anything.
>>342517142
It's a debate because some people have an attachment to old media like discs. It was the same back in the day. Some people were still arguing the case for cartridges when discs were well on their way to replacing them.
Hell, some consumers are still dating themselves and purchasing music CDs and CD players, even though music is available in digital form now.
>>342516650
>and the Wii sold far more than any other, then what do you call it?
The simple fact that the Wii U returned them to their former pattern proves that the Wii didn't fix their problem. Fixing their sales problem would be a success. Temporary sales boosts have never been a success in any industry. "It isn't okay when Nintendo does it."
>>342517267
Now the issue is more Nintendo don't put Third parties on their paycheck than hardware or another stuff. Time change stuff, but Nintendo need put pressure on themselves and push more games than bother with Western AAA industry.
And to be fair, sony don't even know why PS4 is selling so well.
Nintendo should just go the Valve way and release an OS to go with their mobile gaming shit.
Core games on top specs via PC for gamers and cheap, freemium phone games for casuals. There, now everybody's happy.
>>342517267
the 100 million people aren't buying Wii Us because the games aren't good enough.
>>342517313
There's also the problem that a disc solution is clunky for handhelds.
Yes Nintendo has enjoyed a near monopoly on handheld for a long time. They also used to use bullying tactics when they had the upper hand over 3rd party devs in the NES days and such, when 3rd parties saw a way out they said well fuck you now.
>>342504867
>higher production cost, nx games might be as much as 70 or 75 base price
People need to understand one thing. Years back EA said they and other third parties were considering raising the price of games to over 60. Instead of doing this though, they starting pushing DLC and microtransaction out the ass as if they were aiming to make more than 60 off of games.
So basically, this would change nothing in an era $60 games with DLC AND in-game cash shops.
sega does what etc.
>>342517794
>you will never be this retarded
>>342517748
it doesn't prove that because the wii u is nothing like the wii
>>342517794
Says sonynigger
>>342517568
The NES and Wii are two completely different things. The NES is an example of creating customers in a new and growing marketplace. The Wii is an example of trying to get new customers in an already well defined marketplace. The difference in strategy between the two is astronomical. Your ignorance is just comical at this point.
After they fucked themselves by clinging onto the Wii branding for no goddamn reason, the NX will either revive or kill Nintendo.
God damn I'm scared.
>>342517860
i'm not sure those grannies are interest in Zelda, Mario and traditional games, the kind of people they attracted with the Wii seem to be fickle
>>342517762
Sony knows, they're the only ones who didn't fuck up royally, and Microsoft shat their pants o bad Sony even got away with charging for online now.
>>342517960
>increase in production costs means nothing
What, when that happens in any industry the tendency is to pass the cost down to consumers.
>Cartridges are more expensive than optical discs!
You all realize that when you're ordering Chinese shit in bulk it costs you actual pennies, right? Whether they're optical discs or cartridges, whether cartridges are like 2 cents more than discs, it doesn't matter if you're ordering a 100k pieces for cheap from the chinks.
>>342518294
>kill
They still have money from Ds/Wii era.
The worse thing that can happen is Nintendo getting smaller. They don't have all their divisions leaking money like Sony. Also they just make videogames, if something happens they have portables.
>>342518150
The Wii U follows the same gimmick based design as the Wii, in order to target an audience that isn't buying consoles. It is the same exact philosophy, and the inevitable outcome of their blue ocean strategy.
>>342517929
The reason they succeeded was because they offered a cheap and very portable alternative to their competitors. It's pretty easy to understand why Game Gear failed, it was big, and died after an hour of use. PSP uses those mini discs which were full retard, and Vita only offered weeb games.
So of course they won, it's a no-brainer. It was part them and part their competitors' retardation
>>342518418
>What, when that happens in any industry the tendency is to pass the cost down to consumers.
That's already happening though.
>>342518274
they're both new consumers who have never played games before who were drawn to the software. this has always been the case. the strategy was the exact same
>>342518294
It's okay, buddy. I've only recently gotten used to the idea. If Nintendo goes third party, that would be fine, we're still getting Nintendo games without a console. If they go under completely, at least we'll have Breath of the Wild as a (hopefully) beautiful swan song.
Video games became trash post-2007 for me anyway. I don't know why I'm here.
>>342518632
Both of them focused on getting consumers? Cool story. Every product in history has had that focus, so every product in history must have the same strategy.
Thanks for the wonderful insight.
>>342518619
The post that mentioned how publishers already want to increase the price should make people worried of a price increase with carts, rather than the other way around. With discs they already want to do it, with carts they can increase to $70 and say "well they cost more to develop in that system".
>>342513912
Vita carts cost 4-6 times as much to produce as Blurays and games for it only cost $40 instead of $60 for PS4/Xbone games.
Publishers would just eat the extra cost, and niche games might go digital only instead of a small print run.
>>342518608
Gamegear was pretty successful in Europe and South America.
Kept getting games even well into the MD's life
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7wYtXlTIp8A
>>342518540
>Le DS/Wii money meme
Yes,yes but you keep forgetting about the shareholders. If they see that they losing even ITS money, they will drop the support and then Nintendo will be losing his money for real
I'm bot saying that Nintendo will die as company but they will go third party ot move to others media for sure
>>342518578
nope, wrong again! during the wii launch nintendo kept echoing the words "blue ocean", during the wii u launch they kept saying they want the core gamer back. the "gimmick" with the wii u is nothing like the wii remote, see >>342508213 the games aren't similar either. the wii had a wide range of software that appealed to everyone while the wii u has just a continuation of what nintendo wanted to make on the gamecube (which sold a whopping 20 million). the two are not similar in the slightest
>>342518891
they're both blue ocean products, retard. the PS2 for example is a red ocean product because it sold to people already in the market. don't bother replying if you're just going to distort the argument like that, and if you're going to give me an ignorant, surface-level analysis based on useless buzzwords like "gimmick" and "casual". you don't know what you're talking about, bye.
>>342519003
>Publishers would just eat the extra cost
cmon now, they're already nickel and diming people, microtransactions in games with DLC and whatnot, it's like you don't play games
>>342519580
>PS2 for example is a red ocean product because it sold to people already in the market.
As well as people outside of the market.
>>342519003
Games still don't get adjusted for inflation.
DLC and Day one shit is our inflation.
>>342519734
They would eat cost since raising the price per copy would hurt them much more.
It will absolutely hurt their third party support though since they'd make more money selling a PS4/Xbone version over an NX version so some might just opt not to do the NX version in the first place. Plus it's an uphill battle since your audience is already established on the other 2 so you'd be taking a risk trying to build up your audience on the new system that makes you less money per copy sold.
I hope it does really well really fast for their own sake or else they'll start losing third party support pretty quick.
>>342520618
They shouldn't worry about Third parties now, they need put market pressure so third parties can't ignore the thing.
A lot of publishers and devs didn't gave a fuck about Wii but they got a lot of market pressure to port or put a game on console.
Repostan
>get game on NX cartridge
>put cartridge into NX portable
>play SD game on the go
>get home
>take cartridge (or the NX portable itself) and insert it into NX home console
>NX auto installs HD version of the game on the home console's HDD
>keep playing the same game where you left off
>>342521239
If this is how it's going to work then the NX is going to be weak as shit spec-wise and will probably be worse than the Wii U.
>>342521352
Why?
>>342521045
Most third parties, yea. The major ones need to be have been involved a year ago though.
Aren't cartridges prone to piracy?
>>342519580
>during the wii launch nintendo kept echoing the words "blue ocean", during the wii u launch they kept saying they want the core gamer back
Empty words anon. The gamepad is not a concept geared towards core gamers. The games created were not geared towards core gamers. Outside of their words, the Wii U was a continuation of the Wii in every fashion. The NES, SNES, N64, and GC were all consoles with a controller meant to play vidya. The Wii and Wii U were new devices meant to experience something beyond the normal vidya.
NES was created to sell to potential consumers in a growing marketplace. The PS2 saturated the marketplace. Anything after the PS2 is selling to a saturated marketplace. PS2 era and before all had a growing marketplace to sell in, thus their strategies were to grow that marketplace, and gain dominance. The NES wasn't any different. Its job was to grow the marketplace, and gain dominance. The Wii wasn't geared towards growing the marketplace. It was geared at creating a brand new, yet similar, marketplace.
Oh well. Time to leave this futile argument and do something more productive.
>>342521593
As prone as anything else.
>>342521593
How much piracy has the vita had going on?
>>342521514
Major you say western? Yeah, since Microsoft and Sony put them on their pay roll.
Western third parties have a hate boner for nintendo for some reason, ironic because no Nip third party say shit about Nintendo.
>>342521619
>The games created were not geared towards core gamers.
Not entirely true. It took like a year or so for the system to get a Wii Fit or Sports titles. People at the time were even saying those titles should have been there at launch.
>>342521759
No interest in vita I think is factor too.
>>342521759
No one cares about the vita tho
3ds has been haxxored, wiiu has homebrew, Nx is NXT
>>342521839
Nothing can be done with that. For now, they need to play ball with at least Activision and Blizzard.
>cartridges
>CDs
literally what fucking year is it
>>342521593
Piracy is more hardware based than media based.
Get a exploit on console and bam free piracy.
>>342501492
How would games being on cartridges in any way be a "gimmick"? The only thing it would potentially impact is storage and loading times.
>>342522060
>Nintendo Land wasn't a launch title
>Nintendo Land wasn't included with the console on launch
>Nintendo Land was designed for the core
Entertaining viewpoint you have there.
>>342522392
Don't forget about that disc cleaning empire.
>tablet
>cartridge-based
is nintendo making a fucking leap pad
