What games do this?
>>342440749
all of them
Anything with dnd-based combat
>>342440749
Dragons dogma
berserkers vs sorcerers once you get into the dlc area
berserker become literally unplayable and sorcerers are the clutch that kills everything
>>342440749
I'd struggle to tell you what game doesn't or does the opposite of that.
Dragons Dogma, if you talk about only ability to kill things
Spellcasters still need people to take fucking hits for them or they can't cast shit
Divinity: Original Sin
>>342441023
Berserkers? Also, the yellow classes are the broken ones regardless of whether it's base game or dlc. All the magic and fighter classes are mediocre at best in comparison.
What game doesn't do this? The target audience of fantasy RPGs are euphoric fedora tippers that believe in brains over brawn.
Wizards and sorcerers in DnD vidya and tabletop become OP as shit over time.
Still need to find a way to nerf it in my campaign other than 'every fight has magic dampening field'
>>342441524
Have you tried not playing DnD?
Also
>become OP as shit over time
>not OP as shit immediately
>>342441524
Break your wizard's leg and then fight a bunch of monks and rogues with mage slayer.
>>342440749
>no ranger line that starts at the top and just stays at the top
>>342440749
Diablo.
>>342441410
>tfw fucking love the idea red mages, and the idea of being able to cover most roles decently in an emergency, but not as good as a dedicated class
>can almost never do this, and if you can, it's garbage/very sub-optimal
dragon's dogma magick archer felt great because i could do a bit of everything, but it's also kinda ridiculous/broken, so that kinda sours it a bit
>>342441689
My sorceress in pathfinder is only now starting to be able to contribute regularly during combat and she's level 4. There is no way they are op from level 1.
>>342441524
Speaking from a DM perspective, you should try outsmarting them. Are you doing home brew or a premade adventure? Add in some casters to counter their stuff, or do what the PCs do in terms of buffing allies and battlefield control. If the PCs are playing blasters, spread out and give the enemies higher saves
>>342440749
Baldur's Gate 2, where you need a flowchart of what spells you need to undo the spells that make enemies invincible, along with +5 weapons to do any damage at all.
>>342441689
I started pathfinder like >>342442069 and the spells from the beginning are nothing but support spells and spells that chip HP away.
>>342442069
I'm thinking of have enemy casters start using counterspells on PCs but I'm not sure how it works. Otherwise, they do fine against magic resistant enemies but the mage is squishy.
>>342440749
Souls games can be like this but it's more in terms of damage output
>>342441524
Switch over to anything not 3.5 based.
Stop playing 3.5/pathfinder/5e
Just switch to just about any other system and recreate the characters and the problems will solve themselves.
>>342441239
Why the fuck didn't Soul Skewer function as Dire Gouge on a monster god fucking dammit i hate the assassin's monopoly on all the best skills
>>342441524
>Over time
You mean from level 1
>>342440749
not enough of them
games cater to the
"me sam'em me big heha"
audience and often just leave magic users as shit or just not powerful enough to justify using magic over just mindlessly swinging your big hammer/axe/sword at everything
>>342440749
Pretty much most modern rpgs with magic like souls and DD as someone already mentioned
although pure sorc isn't the most powerful end-game class in DD, but the best one is in fact magic-related
>>342442069
>>342442619
Arcane spellcasters have access to multiple different Save or Die spells at level 1.
>Charm Person
>Color Spray
>Sleep
It's actually retarded bullshit.
>>342442027
The problem is always that they make Red Mages so dramatically weaker than their equivalent Warrior or Mage in games where retarded huge pools of damage are required to get anything done. There's three ways to do this properly and make both Combat Mages, Warriors, and Red Mage equivalents work effectively:
-Make Red Mages have access to skills/traits that Warriors and Mages do not, making them able to excel in both areas and be inherently differentiated from the other two ends of the spectrum, giving credence to all three
-Make combat not "Inflict X Billion Damage to a target that is constantly inflicting XX Billion Damage to your party". All this leads to is DPS min/maxing and you can never out-damage an enemy or heal at enough of a rate where a go-between class is worth the effort of putting energy into. If the game has reasonable attribute caps, there's plenty of reason to use a Red Mage that can capture multiple niche locations. If the game is just "HUEG NUMBERS", there's no reason to use one.
-Make your Red Mage have access to the skills of both classes, but have inferior stats. Conversely, have equivalent, or even superior stats, but limit their skill access. Making them both inferior statistically AND lacking in powerful skills only gimps them to the point of uselessness.
There are seldon games outside of SRPGs that ever do Red Mages right, but the few that do always make it so they cover one of these three.
>>342441689
>le color spray meme
A low-level wizard has a tiny handful of actually useful spell slots and the vast majority of DMs are going to throw far more than that many encounters per day. Not only that but the allegedly "overpowered" 1st-level spells like color spray and sleep only work in very specific conditions. Half the monster manual is immune to them outright, a lucky saving throw means the spell is completely wasted, and as long as the DM is smart enough to spread the enemies out rather than put them into one "please AoE me!" clump, even a successful attempt is only going to briefly stun about 1/5th of the enemies.
"Wizards are OP at all levels" is just a meme; it's certainly true at the higher levels but at lower levels they'd better pray the martials are there to do their jobs.
>>342442027
Most single player games where you control one character who has magic and can fight are red mages.
>>342442619
That might work. Counter spells are tricky though. If they work, great. But your caster spent 1 turn or longer trying to prevent one of their casters from doing 1 thing. It's hard, believe me, but trying to outsmart them will make the combat more challenging and enjoyable. Not to mention they will burn through spells to work around your buffs/debuffs and battlefield control, which makes future fights before the next rest more challenging. Everyone gets more into the game and you, as a DM, feel like you've accomplished a good session
>>342443375
That's a fair point. The psychic in my party ended a fight against level 1 goblins because of sleep. So my DM for all future sessions after that has played smarter and now sleep only hits two or three, and of those two or three only 1 or 2 get affected instead of the entire opposing force. It's all about playing smarter
Elder scrolls series
>>342441132
>I'd struggle to tell you what game doesn't or does the opposite of that.
Possibly Skyrim. I haven't got that far but apparently when you get close to lvl 100 the magic is underpowered and two-handed weapons are nuclear.
>>342443861
>Not stealth archer
Although, I suppose bows do count as two handed weapons, even if they aren't classified as that in Skyrim
>>342441023
Striders and magic archers are the kings of dragons dogma. Sorcerers are pretty medicore at best. Though warriors are shit. Fighters are pretty good too, id almost say better than sorcerers beyond dealing with physical immunes.
>>342443375
>Charm Person
Target gets a +5 to the save if cast while in combat, and at low levels that actually matters.
>Color Spray
Legitimately broken at low levels, I have no idea why something this ridiculous is a 1st level spell. Maybe because it's absolutely useless past level one.
>Sleep
Everyone forgets that this spell has a 1 round casting time, meaning it actually takes 2 turns to go off. If you can manage doing nothing for a whole turn (including movement) without getting attacked, good on you. I consider it powerful but not broken.
These spells actually have some drawbacks to them, which is nice. Wish that continued as you grew in level.
>>342441524
But I activated my anti-magic dampening field last round.
>>342445214
>Tfw sleep only affects up to 4HD of creatures
It would be the one of the best spells if it scaled up with you.
That's why I like grease, it's always useful
>>342442859
No, casters start out OP from the very start.
>>342440749
Baldur's Gate 2
>>342442017
>11 years old
>co op PS
>friend is warrior im mage
>get carried through all of the early game
>friend gives me shit
>coming to the end I just fire wall the room and spam lightning
>friend dies and just sits quietly while I solo and waits for his rez
were still good mates but he was a faggot when we were kids
>>342445214
>Maybe because it's absolutely useless past level one.
FREE DAZE PER ROUND WITH NO SAVE
No, seriously, its stupidly broken.
>>342443140
>Get Double Jump
>90% of the good bow skills
>Dire Gouge + Gazzaillion Kisses
>No shield COUNTER SWORD Attacks that don't need stability
>STAREDOWN, a free 1x str boost with no downside if Voidspell or any status curing exists. Stacks up at 4 times
>Get a fucking SPEED UP ABILITY
I am just fucking glad Magic Archer gets Immolation and Magic Rebalancer, otherwise Assassin would be the 10/10 class
>>342446864
...Each creature within the cone is affected according to its HD.
>2 HD or less: The creature is unconscious, blinded, and stunned for 2d4 rounds, then blinded and stunned for 1d4 rounds, and then stunned for 1 round. (Only living creatures are knocked unconscious.)
>3 or 4 HD: The creature is blinded and stunned for 1d4 rounds, then stunned for 1 round.
>5 or more HD: The creature is stunned for 1 round.
It's only stunned, not dazed. They also get a save. And it has to go through spell resist.
>>342446864
Pathfinder has a will save to negate the effect.
>>342447059
>And it has to go through spell resist.
If the creature has that layer of defence. Or immunity.
Which 95% of later ones do, because otherwise it would turn into Spell Breach -> Chain Stun with Color Spray
