Defend stun being in an fps.
McCree can't even kill a Reaper with stun+fan the hammer combo anymore. The stun is so short that it ends before he can fire all six bullets, and the target can mash the escape ability button and survive.
>>342229628
What are flashbangs?
>>342229628
Git gud and don't get hit.
>>342229779
>You can still fire blindly when flash banged.
>>342229779
(you)
>>342229628
There isn't one; stun in FPS games are cancer.
I mean, shit, how long was the sandman a thing before it was nerfed into gimmick-status?
Stun removes skill and makes gameplay stale. What makes a shooter like TF2 or overwatch interesting to play and watch are the almost fighting-game levels of counterplay. You clicking on your enemy doesn't equal death 100% of the time like more arena-style shooters (outside of snipers) so it gives your opponent a chance to react, with you having the advantage. You then react to their reaction, and so on.
Stun just removes your opponents chance to make a counterplay. It's boring, shitty, and literally anti-skill. Like, wow, you hit a single key without even having to aim and removed ALL of your opponents options and basically guaranteed their death. How fucking lame.
Over watch has probably the WORST stun-cancer of any shooter I've ever played, though. I mean, shit, you have to AIM the fucking sandman, at least.
>>342229747
Good, faggot, now you actually have to aim and get headshots. Boo FUCKING hoo.
>>342230169
SHOULD there be an opportunity for a counterplay at all, if McCree's opponent was careless enough to fight him in close quarters? It's a class-based game after all.
Not every situation can be resolved in your favor, because your actions leading to this very situation also count.
For example, in Q3, if you show yourself in an open area on low health, you're an easy target for the opponent's railgun. It's unavoidable, no stun needed.
To re-iterate, what makes you think you deserve a chance of a counterplay if you let yourself get hit by the stun?
>>342229747
>boo hoo I can't instantly kill someone without having to aim
mcree tears are a wonderful thing.
Thank you, Blizzard.
>>342229747
You don't have to mash it. Holding down the button effectively "mashes" the ability far faster than you could humanly perform.
>>342230420
>>342230752
I don't even play McCree all that often, just stating the facts. You and OP are the one crying about how broken he is even after the nerfs.
>>342230760
It differs from game to game, good to know that it works in OW, thanks.
>>342230669
What map ISN'T close quarters? Also the other team as 3 McCrees. Now what?
>>342229628
Defend splash damage being in an FPS.
Defend movement alteration such as juggling being in an FPS.
Stuns are a game mechanic that adds variation, just like anything else.
>>342230669
Then just make the stun an instakill then. You deserve to die if you get hit by it right?
>>342229628
Defend your mom for giving birth to a retard.
>>342231082
>What map ISN'T close quarters?
All of them? Seriously, don't try this kind of generalization.
>Also the other team as 3 McCrees. Now what?
They enemy team loses, because they all can easily be countered.
>>342230169
>you hit a single key without even having to aim
have you ever used the sandman
>>342231094
Simple, those do not take control away from the player.
>>342229628
Depends on what the game mechanics are like. In the case of Overwatch, the point of having a stun is to provide a hard counter to slippery, mobile characters as well as utility against ultimate abilities.
>>342231119
No, you deserve to die, if: you got hit by it, you were a squishy class, and the enemy McCree has good aim.
>>342231354
>juggling does not take control away from the player
Defend fixed clip sizes and reloading. It takes control away from the player.
Defend set movement speeds. They take control away from the player.
>>342230669
I love how you had to point out that you were at low health in your shitty Q3 example. Also, Q3 is an arena shooter, and is completely different.
"Being in the same room as McCree" is not an acceptable situation to lead to instant death. It doesn't require ANY EFFORT on the part of he who aims at the floor and throws a flash. McCree should have the ADVANTAGE, sure, and if the McCree is of equal or greater skill he should still win that encounter most of the time, but there are better ways to go about it than LOL YOU CAN'T MOVE NOW. Again, it removes the opportunity for counterplay, the very thing that makes the gameplay interesting.
Look at Genji's ult, for example. It's arguably the best ult in the game in the hands of a skilled player; a good Genji with his sword is perfectly capable of getting a solo-team kill with zero support from his teammates. But you can still DO SOMETHING about it. Genji never makes his enemies stand still, or die instantly, or whatever. He's still at 200 health and still can be shot.
THAT'S interesting. THAT'S exciting. THAT'S good design. Even when when has the absolute upper hand, there's still a SLIM chance that some glorious bastard can clutch it out and DO SOMETHING about it.
What they should do is make it so the flashbang severely slows your movement for a short period and resets the cool down on your abilities, but doesn't stun you. That's still pretty cancer, IMO, but it still allows that glorious reactionary counterplay that makes a shooter GOOD while still letting McSkill counter high mobility targets since overwatch players apparently really need that crutch to hit anything that moves.
>>342231082
>What map ISN'T close quarters?
Every map has close quarters sections and open sections.
If you're worried about McCree stuns, don't walk into the corridor, you idiot.
Also, McCree is pretty helpless at range, so any sniper class or ranged class makes mince meat of him.
>>342231434
Both of the claims are false.
>>342231434
Uh, no? Because everyone has those same restrictions all the time? There was no control given in that area to begin with, stop being a retard.
>>342231434
The player is in control of those mechanics
>>342231434
Reloading can balance out DPS by having a forced pause in between a set amount of shots.
>>342231532
>"Being in the same room as McCree" is not an acceptable situation to lead to instant death. It doesn't require ANY EFFORT on the part of he who aims at the floor and throws a flash. McCree should have the ADVANTAGE, sure, and if the McCree is of equal or greater skill he should still win that encounter most of the time, but there are better ways to go about it than LOL YOU CAN'T MOVE NOW. Again, it removes the opportunity for counterplay, the very thing that makes the gameplay interesting.
This is the biggest reason why I dislike Overwatch. The design is too rock-paper-scissors, where hard counters exist and they are sometimes impossible to play around.
>>342231537
Stop turning this into a "u jus think McCree is OP lol don't you know widow beats him" garbage argument.
That's not the argument against stun. It isn't OP in the strictest sense, it just closes the skill gap between players in a most cancerous way.
>worrying about stuns in a game where turrets and healers are a bigger issue
>>342231626
>>342231587
>>342231604
>run out of bullets in clip
>can't shoot weapon
>wahhhhhhhhhhhhh why are they taking control away from me???? stop censoring me!!!!!!!!!! change my diaper!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Stuns are perfectly fine, "taking control away from the player" is not an argument. Stuns are a restriction, which games are full of in order to have rules.
![the-wire-tommy-carcetti[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/4CrI1HS.jpg "the-wire-tommy-carcetti[1].jpg")
>>342229779
You mean stun grenades?
>>342232029
But running out of ammo isn't taking control away from you you FUCKING mongoloid. EVERYONE has that restriction.
Overwatch is for people without skill already, so they need as many crutches as they can to feel like they're good.
>>342229628
>People complain about Mccree
>People complain about a stun that lasts two seconds and recycles each 5 second
>Not complaining about Mei
>Not complaining about a gun that stuns you for longer
>Not complaining about a special that stuns whole teams
>>342232029
The player is in control of when to reload, shoot, and move meaning they function on their own terms unlike stuns.
>>342231434
its called air straf-
wait overwatch doesn't have that
>>342232029
>run out of bullets in a clip
You fucked up you're de-
Oh wait, this isn't call of goddamn duty and reload times are quick, while TTK is relatively low. Even though it was entirely your fault, you still can pull it out if you play your cards right. You are some kind of fucking stupid, my man.
Even then, all of your opponents can run out of ammo too. It's not taking away control from the player, it's just an easy way to cap DPS for balance purposes. It doesn't take more than a handful of brain cells to figure this shit out, friend.
>>342232297
Mei is bad too, but her stun takes time to activate, which allows you to react. The counterplay is still there.
She's also really bad.
>>342232605
Does it really allow you to react? Unless you have some sort of a dash, or a weapon that can kill Mei in half a second, you can't do a whole lot and will just be frozen.
>>342232717
Well, the only characters who are completely helpless to Mei should never be alone.
>>342229628
>>342229747
>>342229779
>>342229905
>>342229983
>>342230169
>>342230420
>>342230669
>>342230752
>>342230760
>>342230896
>>342231082
>>342231094
>>342231119
>>342231317
>>342231346 >>342231354
>>342231360
>>342231434
>>342231532
>>342231537
>>342231668
>>342231814
>>342232029
>>342232161
>>342232162
>>342232297
>>342232330
>>342232463
>>342232605
guys, who cares. it's literally just a video game
>>342229628
>fps
you mean MOBA, friend
>they had to add stun just to counter one single cunt character who is tiny as fuck and impossible to hit for most characters and can rewind her own time and health and has insanely high dps
>it's still piss easy for her to just avoid the character with stun
Overwatch is a mess designwise
>tfw mainly play McCree as a mid-ranged sniper and only use Fan the Hammer when enemies are on the point and I need to protect it.
>>342230896
>just stating the facts
But Mcskill still wins the matchup vs Reaper. Just because you didn't instaskill him doesn't mean you didn't effectively remove him from the battle until he can go get heals, which is a big deal for a character who's entire design is based around flanking.
>>342232717
Bastion, Torb, Symmetra, Roadhog, and Zenyatta are the only characters that can't do anything about it.
hello, i am the authority of FPS. the universe has given me the power to say what does and what does not belong in a FPS
hereby i declare that "stuns" officially belong in FPS
>>342229628
He only exist to shit on le run fast butt girl and weeabo jumpy sword man
those would be rampant in this game without him
>>342233078
I agree, fuck videogame discussion. Bring in the twitter screencaps.
>>342232161
And EVERYONE has the restriction of being stunned when it applies you FUCKING mongoloid.
>>342232330
How does it make a difference? The point is "taking control away from the player"
>>342233283
Roadhog/Mei is 50/50. Mei can freeze Roadhog but she sure as shit can't kill him on her own. Roadhog, meanwhile, can hurt Mei a lot.
>>342233735
>And EVERYONE has the restriction of being stunned
Uh, no? What? That doesnt even make sense.
I know anonymity is an excuse to embarrass yourself but please stop second hand embarrassment is a thing.
I know you really rely on those crutches anon, but don't worry, Blizz ain't gonna un-casualize their game anytime soon ;^)
>>342234057
>Uh, no? What? That doesnt even make sense.
Stop pretending to be a retard. I know it's your only skill, but stop.
Anyone can be stunned in the situation they set themfelf up for it, just like anyone can lose control of their gun if they run out of ammo. What's the issue? Mongoloid
>>342234465
>Anyone can be stunned in the situation they set themfelf up for it
But that's wrong.
There's no argument for somebody who's just making shit up as they go besides telling them to fuck off.
So fuck off.
Jeez, what is it with people here and their chronic anxiety with admitting they're wrong?
>>342234465
If the only defense of stun is this guy, maybe there's hope after all.
-Revert McCree damage nerfs
-Change his Stun into an ability Silence instead (enemies can only use their primary "left click" attack during the silence)
There, I fixed McCree. The silence prevents Tracer from blinking away, prevents tanks from throwing up a shield, meanwhile if Genji reflects his silence McCree can't fan the hammer.
anything that removes control of the character in any videogame whatsoever is automatically shit design. there no excuse and no obscure scenario where its ok. its absolute cancer and it needs to go.
as far as overwatch goes, ults that are 100% guaranteed kills with 1 single button press then you could disconnect your input device and still kill the team need to go. see: reaper, mcree, torbjorn
>Getting close enough to be flashed
>>342236384
You can't help it with how many forced chokepoints are on every single map.
>mfw I like McRee fan more with the fast reload and lower damage
>mfw just spamming it in mid-range
It makes Tracer fags mad as fuck
>>342235998
Exactly, god mode should be enabled in FPS by default. Players should run around unable to kill each other because that takes control away.
