> The developer is currently seeking reparations for copyright infringement, breach of contract, and unfair competition. In Epic’s lawsuit, it alleges that the hack was advertised as an aimbot that “gives you full control over the game.”
>According to Epic, these hacks and the videos Kreibich created have caused “irreparable harm” to the developer, and will continue to do so because of Kreibich’s ongoing involvement with the hack. Because of this, Epic is seeking restitution and damages, including costs incurred from the lawsuit. They’re also asking for the destruction of Kreibich’s copies of Paragon, any derivative works (like the videos), and the hack itself. All of this has been requested to be handled via a trial by jury.
What is your opinion on this, /v/?
Now, don't get me wrong, I hate cheating scum, even though I play online competitive games once per 1000 years. It still sucks since it devaluates removes the whole point of competitive play. That being said, there is a fine difference between developing a tool that bypasses game's defenses and being a cheating scum.
In my opinion, it is really pathetic to abuse the law to beat the "hacker". If some random german kid know your product better than you and you, as a big company, fail to be betetr than him with all your resources - fucking admit it and buy source. But don't resort to such pity measures.
Where is the fucking spirit of equal sportmanship in it? Isn't it what you were claiming to defend? Facetious hypocrite.
I think the court can decide and jurors can rule on review of all the facts rather than your screenshot
I hope he gets seriously fucked over so other people think a little before doing that shit.
Good luck epic, hang the shitter
>>342221245
whoever gets BTFO, I win some quality entertainment
I hope this shit blows up
>>342221684
Second.
If you're going to ruin my game, you can rot, fuck him.
>>342222303
>playing Paragon unironically
>>342222303
So developers can stop putting money in anti-cheating because they can sue whoever they want? We don't need more lazy developers.
How petty do you need to be if you can't fix the particular hack.
>>342221245
He was charging for it so why not? Sue the fuck out of him.
>>342222367
I mean cheaters in general.
>>342221245
>In my opinion, it is really pathetic to abuse the law to beat the "hacker". If some random german kid know your product better than you and you, as a big company, fail to be betetr than him with all your resources - fucking admit it and buy source. But don't resort to such pity measures.
>Where is the fucking spirit of equal sportmanship in it? Isn't it what you were claiming to defend? Facetious hypocrite
You're dumb and don't understand coding.
This cheating fuck deserves the death penalty. I hope he gets it.
>>342221245
apart from it being shitty for legit players this guy is gonna get fucked because he's selling it
>>342222510
not op, but if your payoff is "you don't know shit, stfu" and you're not gonna explain anything, then you're just another ignorable shitposter.
>>342221245
That is the wrong approach.
Instead of wasting money on lawsuits, invest it into more code monkeys who work to ensure that your fucking piece of shit game can't get hacked like this.
I can literally imagine how many in this thread go into fucking mudslim rage mode because someone was merely hacking.
Pathetic lifes you live.
>>342221245
I hope the run the little shit into the ground.
>>342221245
>If some random german kid know your product better than you
Can you explain how a series of hacks by some german guy makes him know the product better than the developer?
>>342222791
Eat shit, faggot.
>>342222791
>bawwww i wanna cheat and ruin others' good times
Fuck you and die in a fire.
Just hire the little shit to keep people from hacking your garbage moba.
>>342221245
I believe everyone should go to gaol.
The Shitter for his cheating hax and Epic for making such a cancerous videogame and having the gall to release it to the public.
... And the OP, for being an immense drama mongering turd.
>>342222459
>So developers can stop putting money in anti-cheating because they can sue whoever they want
He got sued for selling them, you retard.
>We don't need more lazy developers
Yeah, its lazy of them to continue to not want to support a game long after its cycle because some turbo nerd sells cheats.
>How petty do you need to be if you can't fix the particular hack
It cost money and you're fighting an army of people that do it for fun and free.
>>342222667
It would take too much time and I don't care nearly enough to explain to you.
Is there a video? Where's the video?
Let's see /v/ delude themselves into siding with the hacker
>>342222459
I'd imagine they are only suing because he's selling the hacks and it tampers with their software
He did it all wrong, he should've told the company about it, companies usually pay good money to people who find vulnerabilities on their products, instead he decided to exploit it and make a profit out of it wich is illegal.
>we need to have a controversy for attention
>let's scare this script kiddie that will likely kneel down like a bitch
Looks like it's working
>>342223107
>all hackers are bad
>>342222997
so why even post
>>342221245
Ahahahaha
Nice try comy fagots.
Hes german.in germany. German law applies.
Good luck geting a law suit this retardet runing under german law.
>>342223303
Because I wanted you to know that you're an idiot and that you should seriously think about what you're saying before posting.
i don't justify abusing the law for stopping something i hate, especially if it's for a petty cause like videogames.
No amount of hating on cheaters can make me justify this bullshit. Consumers should be free to create and sell modifications to what they purchased.point.
if you activate cheats on their official servers that's a breach of contract and they have a right to terminate your account but that's it.
>>342222459
>So developers can stop putting money in anti-cheating because they can sue whoever they want?
Anti cheat costs the developer money.
Lawsuits costs the developer money, but also scare other people into not developing cheats.
Easy choice if you ask me
>>342223274
You're altering code that's not yours and worse off cheating. Of course hackers are shit heads especially if you're selling it
>>342223490
but you didn't tell me why I'm an idiot. So you're just yet another funposter.
>>342221245
>Where is the fucking spirit of equal sportmanship in it?
>equal sportmanship
>talking about cheats.
>>342223627
I already told you why i'm not going to explain to you.
Although, by now I could have. Now i'm just doing it out of spite, fuck you.
>>342221245
>In my opinion, it is really pathetic to abuse the law to beat the "hacker"
Why? He's selling what is an unlicensed mod of their game. How isn't that illegal?
>>342221245
Meh, developing cheating software is just a fun pastime for most. In itself I would consider it relatively harmless. It's the people that use it that are the faggots that should be hanged.
Although making money off it is going too far in my opinion.
>>342222459
anti-cheat is such a fucking resource sink in multiple ways. If there were no cheaters in the first place it would be better for both the players and devs.
>>342221245
Since he was trying to make money selling a fucking hack for a multiplayer game he deserves to get slammed with a lawsuit.
>>342221245
>>342221684
>>342222303
I personally wouldn't mind if he just posted the hacks and how he did them for free online. If it's not him, someone else would discover it eventually and they wouldn't be open about how it was discovered so that the devs could patch it.
Selling it online like some sort of super hacker secret is idiotic and deserves prosecution. I just don't like the mentality that no hacks should ever be published online, as if that stops other people from discovering them eventually anyway. The responsibility is on the developers to patch out hacks, not for a bunch of shady autist hackers to ignore their own nature.
>>342221245
>equal sportmanship
>>342223751
because unlicensed mods are not illegal.
>>342223818
You're basically saying fuck responsibility m8.
>>342221245
Cries cuz they can't secure their game.
Fuck 'em.
>>342224028
Only a very naive person would expect people with no sense of responsibility to exercise responsibility. There will always be bad people who are trying to do things they shouldn't.
I'd rather have the knowledge of how to achieve bad things be made public so that the people in charge (and us) can know how to address them and protect ourselves against them. You can't contain knowledge, even knowledge to do harm. Not forever, anyway.
>>342222997
>He got sued for selling them, you retard.
So? How is this okay?
You do realize he is not breaking any laws for selling reverse engineered code?
There is a reason why Sony had to buy Bleemcast and not just sue them
>>342221245
How can they sue a german player by filing a lawsuit in the US? I understand restricting his ability to use paypal, and getting rid of the videos on YT (though I'm pretty sure Google can just tell them to fuck off anyway), but how would they are planning on seeking restitution and damages? Does he live in the US?
>>342223030
Of waht?
>>342223410
I take it you don't remember Half-Life 2.
>>342221245
Fuck all cheaters
from the script kiddies to the actual hackers and know the game better than the developer. Fuck them all, their hands should be cut off.
I am so glad Cliffy B. is no longer involved with these people.
>>342223838
But selling them is a copyright infringement.
>>342221245
>unfair competition
He is not competing with you.
>breach of contract
You have no contract with him.
>copyright infringement
because of youtube videos? Ok take down the videos.
>caused “irreparable harm”
If that is so then development of the game will cease right? it is 'irreparable' now as you said to continue would be against the shareholders interest.
>damages
Good luck demonstrating that this guy damaged your business. I'm sure the company suing its customers/fans is more damaging.
I guess they hope the jury is retarded and doesn't understand what the guy did at all and just hears the word 'hack' and takes their side.
>moba shit
I do not care about a company that makes mobashit or the cancer that plays them.
>>342224386
The only reason why German power structures cooperated is because FBI was involved. In Newell filed a lawsuit like them, he wouldn't produce shit out of this
>>342224786
>You have no contract with him.
Every software has EULA, dumb faggot
>because of youtube videos? Ok take down the videos.
A mention of Paragon that SELLS cheats on the site can get you that. He doesn't need to literally sell the game or use assets, he only needs to mention the brandname. That's also the reason why you didn't find mention of Blizzard or WoW on those vanilla private servers.
>>342221245
Game is complete shit anyways.
>>342225008
EULA has never and will never hold up in court. Name me one instance where an EULA has ever held up in court. Oh right, EULA doesn't overrule Federal or State laws. Any lawyer with half a brain would destroy any company trying to enforce EULA as blatant harassment and even conflict of interest in very rare circumstances
>>342221245
If you have an aimbot, or something similar, it's usually really indicative of designing your game really, really poorly.
It's like clipper/cupper in FFXI. It existed because your characters position was handled locally and not server-side. So you could temporarily disconnect from the server, move through a wall, then reconnect to the server with your updated position, which allowed you to bypass walls, doors, large areas, vertically, etc.
If theres any kind of hack, at least 50% of the liability on the developer.
I think cheaters are cancer but you shouldn't be criminalizable for writing software that does some funny shit on a computer of a person that decided they wanted to use your software.
If they can't add proper security in their fucking mp game and their game is left open for all kinds of exploits in 2016 it's their fucking fault.
If they are suing instead of fixing that means that every person that decide to buy his own "private" wallhack n shit suit from a programmer will be undetected.
>>342221245
Just fucking link the whole RPS article you lazy cunt
>>342222917
>bawwwwwwwwww cheating in a game should have legal consequences
take the stick out of your ass
> UT4 is still an unfinished piece of shit
>make a moba
>>342223251
>companies usually pay good money to people who find vulnerabilities on their products
Hey, man. Thanks for telling us about this bug that if exploited would have killed our already dying game.
What? You want a handout? Hahahahaha go fuck yourself. You're not one of our professional beta testers or bug finders. We have betas for people like you to do our work for us, for free.
The lost sales argument kind of makes sense actually. It's kind of akin to slander.
That said, they'll not make much cash off of some random script kiddie.
>>342225749
lost sales makes no sense
if they claim they lost sales because someone pointed out a vulnerability in their product, it's their fault it exists, not his for pointing it out
This thread is the example of how /v/ went to shit and why I don't bother visiting anymore.
>>342225910
The act of him pointing it out is what causes the supposed lost sales. That's a conscious decision on his part.
You don't blame a bank for having a bank that's easy to rob. Well, you do, but you ALSO arrest and prosecute the robber.
Everyone's a loser here. Them for making a buggy mess. Him for capitalizing on their incompetence (and getting caught because he's all about me me me). And finally us, for now actually knowing that Paragon exists.
>>342224386
Nothing happend.
Kek all stayed in germany. German law. German citzen.
Demanding trial by jurry. Ahahahaha ffs how retardet are you.
Letting 12 hillbillys decide ones faith.
>>342225463
>Just fucking archive the whole RPS article you lazy cunt
Fixed that.
>>342221245
good, fuck cheaters
hope he ends up in a cell with Muhammed and friends
>game in alpha
>someone create hack for game
>in place than use this to make the game hack-proof
>sue him!
>>342223746
He's right you didn't explain why he's wrong, just that your opinion is that he's wrong
IOW, fuck you you're a retarded faggot
>>342222506
Why can't he charge for something he coded?
Its fucking hypocrisy to say a game company is allowed to write and sell code but that a bedroom coder isn't. Fuck off all you nigger dips who are siding with Epic.
Kill yourselves you slaves of the jews
>yfw nothing at all happens to him
>>342225463
>>342226174
https://archive.is/JmeyA
>>342226083
But they're not the robber.
They're the guy standing outside the bank shouting that it's a lousy bank and pointing out how exactly it's a lousy bank.
It's not slander if it's provably true.
>>342226492
>It's not slander if it's provably true.
That's really not how slander works.
>>342226529
Then it works wrong.
>>342223251
>>342225685
Yep. AFAIK only a few big corporations actually pay significant bug bounties (see: Google).
>>342222824
Well it means he knows how to exploit poorly written code, therefore code that the developer was too stupid to see that it was not secure and easily exploitable. On top of that, their approach to this seems to be stopping a source rather than patching their game after properly reviewing what parts of their code can be exploited.
>>342223410
Germany. The country where Football Manager is banned because EA owns the license to some football clubs.
Yeah, no way a lawsuit works there.
>>342226891
In general, reverse engineering isn't again the law. What he did was a proper example of RE. And he has right to sell his OWN code.
Now, if he did steal Epic's code or someone leaked parts of it to him and he used it to make hsi shit - then it would be illegal.
But he did all the job himself, so he is good.
![[FFF] Love Live! - OVA [BD][1080p-FLAC][B750C279].mkv_snapshot_01.25_[2016.05.01_15.44.35].png](https://i.imgur.com/dpWyqJW.jpg "[FFF] Love Live! - OVA [BD][1080p-FLAC][B750C279].mkv_snapshot_01.25_[2016.05.01_15.44.35].png")
>>342221245
the idea that you can't do something with a product you own and the idea that a video game is something to be licensed and not such a product is ridiculous.
also literally who and literally what are paragon and epic games?
>>342226891
That's because hiring a lawyer is cheaper than hiring a competent developer it seems.
This is because of the common practice of firing 95% of your development staff once a product is actually released, or hiring them under limited contracts in the first place.
Now that they're working with a skeleton staff and nobody wants to work with them anymore, anyone they DO hire to try and fix the problem will be wading through code mud for months trying to figure it out all while their bosses are collectively squirting rage cum onto the back of his neck until he eventually quits.
>>342221245
cheaters are fucking scum and I hope he lose money for doing that shit and spreading it
And Epic games are in their full right to sue the shitter - he is spreading cheats that impacts the experience for their entire playerbase, and Epic Games are in trouble if hundreds of players stop playing their game (and paying for their skins or whatever it is they are selling)
THAT BEING SAID where the fuck is their anti-cheat software? Shouldn't something like that be standard in games like these? Is the german guy really that good or was there nothing?
>create something that cannot be used for good, only to cheat
>hurr dont blame the hackers
kys
>>342226824
>should we pay alpha/beta tester?
>na we have a fanbase enough retarded to do it for free even if we dont fix the game before release
>ut3/wow expansions
are the ones that come to mind now
>>342227015
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reverse_engineering#European_Union\
now apologize for spouting bullshit, moron
>>342227110
Paradog is the new hot moba
EPIC is the faggots who once were cool and made Unreal and UT but then went into shit so even Cliffy left them
>>342227115
>That's because hiring a lawyer is cheaper than hiring a competent developer it seems.
This.
Also, easieer to win, all you need is to pour enough money until kid can't afford good lawyer.
>he was actually selling it
he deserves everything
>>342227149
>he is spreading cheats that impacts the experience for their entire playerbase
That's correct.
>And Epic games are in their full right to sue the shitter
No, they aren't. They are in their full right to implement anti-cheat system, not to abuse law with their power and money.
>and Epic Games are in trouble if hundreds of players stop playing their game (and paying for their skins or whatever it is they are selling)
That's not his fault, that\s developer fault for not being competent to protect their creation.
Hacker has no advantage here - it is a pure battle of intelligence on a fair ground. Can't win? Well then hire him or buy his shit and shutdown for good.
>>342225910
Bullshit. It's not legal to steal, even if someone was to leave their door wide open.
Sales would be lost because there's going to be an impression that the game is full of hackers. It's grounds to sue.
>>342227208
Killing people with kitchen knifes is bad, but are kitchen knifes or the company that produces them bad in any way too?
Retard
>>342223601
Your altering memory on your computer, which you own. and he was merely selling a program.
Hope the jury find him innocent.
>>342227421
BAKAME
>>342227401
>Sales would be lost because
I assure you there's more than one reason that shit show is doing poorly.
Them blaming it on someone else is just the preface of the novel that is their mistakes.
>>342221245
>monthly subscription fee for hacks
Is this literal nigger serious?
>>342227208
>cheating is bad
I guess I should go turn myself in for using a gameshark when I was 8
>>342227224
I won't, because you did not read it:
> The unauthorised reproduction, translation, adaptation or transformation of the form of the code in which a copy of a computer program has been made available constitutes an infringement of the exclusive rights of the author.
he does not reproduce copy of a program, he produced a completely separate program he owns ALL RIGHT TO SELL OR REPRODUCE.
The only case when it is illegal if he used someone's else code in it that is protected by specific license or law that forbids such commercial usage.
>>342221245
That shit won't work, though.
He's German and is living in Germany, German law applies in that situtation. They would have to sue him in a German court and they most likely don't really give a shit.
>>342224721
No it's not copyright infringement, he is in no way selling any of their material, hes made his own code.
>>342227529
Apologize, worthless /v/ermin trash.
>>342227110
online games where you play with other people are different than single player games. When you start cheating in online games you are being a huge nuisance to everyone else in the game. If said online game depends on players sticking around with it and spending money on it (every F2P game nowedays), cheaters are actively hurting the game and the developers by annoying other players, since it runs the risk of them quitting the game entirely.
>>342227338
what.
The dude is selling cheats that negatively impact their business and you tell them to git gud? The fucker can stop doing it in the first place.
Epic Games should implement better anti-cheat software, but taking all the accountability away from the perpetrator is fucking bs.
>>342227529
Reverse engineering a program is reproducing it. Apologize.
>>342221245
>monthly subscription for an aimbot
...huh?
>>342227529
If we're going under that sort of logical fuck steppery, someone else's code is required for his code to function as intended. So to produce the desired effect both sets of code are necessary.
He is only able to sell his code because it produces the desired effect, which means he is only able to sell his code as long as it uses someone else's code.
>>342227629
Are you new? That's been happening for decades.
German? Well, i'll be. I thought all the guys who wrote these faggot cheat programs for scrubs were RUs, and made sure to add in keyloggers/trojans/coin miners into their cheat malwares so little timmy the tryhard can infect his computer with viruses while he shows how l33t he is to all his friends online by speedhaxxing and epic headshotting everyone through walls.
>>342226083
So that means reviewers who give a negative review should be taken to court due to loss of sales.
>>342221245
>meanwhile valve
>spend money and we dont care about what you do
>>342227702
REV UP THOSE LAWSUITS, BOYS
>>342227629
Yeah, you're basically paying for the support and all the updates.
>there are people on /v/ who BUY multiplayer cheats
>>342221245
>patreoning hacks for oline MOBA early access games
Has the world came to an end yet? Because it should.
>>342227606
Holy shit your literal retard, none of their code is the hack you dumb fuck.
>>342227586
>The dude is selling cheats
He has all right to sell since it is genuine software.
>that negatively impact their business
This is debatable.
First of all, his aim was to make "experience of other people better". On this grounds you can argue that fairly winning in a game ruins experience for other party therefore they are in their right to sue you. That's nit how it works.
Third, he did not attack EPIC's business directly, he was making his own. Now if he did wrote a worm that shguts down EPIC servers or renders their store inoperable - that would direct be negative effect on their business.
>and you tell them to git gud
>getting upset on being told to git gud
kek
>>342227586
>Epic Games should implement better anti-cheat software
Exactly.
>but taking all the accountability away from the perpetrator is fucking bs
1. KIll the guy with a baseball
2. Blame the company that produced spoken baseball
^your logic
>Epic Games should implement better anti-cheat software
>>342221245
Fuck hackers. I hope epic ruins his life and takes everything from him.
Cheat in single player games as much as you like but keep that shit away from multiplayer. I have no sympathy.
>>342227606
Cracking the game's EXE and releasing it in the wild IS the proper example or reproducing.
Releasing old-school crack that patches the executable - isn't.
>>342221245
>Blizzard banning hackers based on hardware IDs
>Epic suing the hack creators themselves
>meanwhile Valve only just around to tackling the biggest hacks in their games only to find out 50% of their players were using them on multiple accounts in competitive matches
Remember when Valve actually cared about their games?
>>342222459
>So developers can stop putting money in anti-cheating because they can sue whoever they want?
That's better than any anticheat in circulation
Nothing can perfectly rid games of hackers, but if you sue them, they will easily crumble
Imagine instead of getting a c&d letter from your ISP for pirating games you got a lawsuit, would you stop pirating?
>>342227980
Valve hasn't been a video game developer for a long time
>>342222791
>an image board dedicated to video games gets angry when people hack online video games
Who would have thunk?
>>342227634
That\s pretty fucked up logical state you put yourself in because on these grounds you can say any program developed for Windows is in the same condition - it requires Windows to operate therefore "uses" MS code.
That is not how it works. That's why definitions like "product" exist.
>>342227980
>thinking that method actually works
You can spoof every single "hardware ID" in your machine.
>>342221245
This is the END of PC gaming
>>342227586
so? that's why it's on the company to produce anti-cheat measures, not push ridiculous lawsuits or even criminal cases on someone who fiddled with something he payed for
If you went to an amusement park and their was a patron who day in day out stood in front of the funhouse mirror so no one could see and park visitors dropped off because they heard there was such a weirdo, it would be justified for the amusement park to kick him out and ban him from their private establishment, but to say that he'd be liable to face a lawsuit or criminal charges demonstrates both a gross misunderstanding of morality and the reason we have legal systems in place
>>342226325
He coded a thing that is dependent on a propietiary lib he doesn't have right to.
>>342222459
>>342228032
This shit goes deeper than fighting off cheaters, tho.
They win and they start suing for anything.
>>342228218
>>342228218
Nice slippery slope you faggot. That isn't an argument.
>>342228218
sucks for you, hacking faggot. hope they sue everyone using the hack, not just the creator.
>>342228070
Hackers have tried. Even going so far as reinstalling Windows and changing hardware doesn't work, you have to make a new account on a new PC AND buy a new copy of Overwatch to get around hardware bans.
>>342228218
>anything
Like what?
What would be the next step?
>>342226654
>"Then it works wrong"
Nigga who do you think you are?!
Just because YOU think the sky is red doesn't make it any less blue.
>>342226325
the value of his product comes from the existence of their product and makes their product less valuable to other players. it's obviously unfair competition.
>>342228218
>>342228265
I need an example, I can't see developers suing for anything besides tampering with their game.
Do they start suing people that use the cheat? Because that would be great.
>>342228272
>>342228273
You do realize that suing for the hack is like suing Durante for DSfix.
LITERALLY 1:1
>Forge a knife and sell it
>Get accused of murder
You people are so butthurt about someone cheating in game you just thrown logic out of window and raped it on its way down
>>342228317
They sue you for not buying their games or start suing for playing their competitors games.
>>342228291
>Hackers have tried
>reinstalling Windows
>changing hardware
You have no idea what hacking or spoofing is. If you think these cutting edge hackers are trying to get around a hardware ban by reinstalling windows then you are out of your god damned gourd.
>>342228185
Stop acting like you know what you're talking about.
The only lib's it would have required would be those through his IDE such as his .h and .cpp files.
The only thing his program does is read values from the memory on his RAM, which belongs to the computer it is running on. In no way is he redistributing their code.
>>342228475
Nice argument I can't even counter it.
probably because I don't see it
>>342228420
how does that follow from this precedent
>>342228367
durante's fix isn't a multiplayer cheat, nor did he sell it.
fuck off cheating faggot
>>342228358
>use XInput
>get sued
>h-hey just because i completely ruined the game you made for money doesn't mean you get to sue me!
imagine if some anon pissed on your food analogy, wouldn't you be upset?
>>342228430
http://www.pcgamer.com/overwatch-cheaters-are-having-a-hard-time/?utm_content=buffer3b12f&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook&utm_campaign=buffer_pcgamer
>On his fourth attempt, he purged his PC, changing hard drive IDs, MAC address, BiosDate and buying a VPN to throw Blizzard's anticheat off. It didn't work.
>>342228414
>get caught removing serials from gun
>get arrested
that's a better example and more accurate.
>>342225383
He's not being criminalized for writing hacks, he's being criminalized for selling those hacks.
>>342228581
They operate the same - they require a game to work.
The fact he did not sell is irrelevant. EPIC is not suing him for selling HIS cheat tool, he is suing him for providing it in general.
>>342228610
>Retard can't break through anticheat
>changed bios date
My fucking sides
>>342228573
Because they can start suing about anything related to video games.
>>342228596
>imagine if some anon pissed on your food analogy, wouldn't you be upset?
But he only pissed because you allowed him. What did you do when he was doing it? Oh right, you are beta cuck and mouth breather
I'd knock his shit out and slowly popped both of his ballsacks.
very
slowly
>>342228610
Like I said, that guy's not a hacker, and you don't understand what you're talking about.
>>342228453
fundamentally that anon is right though. he's selling a modification to their product. this is not necessarily illegal, but it usually is - especially when that modification makes the product less valuable to other potential customers.
>>342228716
how does that follow from this precedent
>>342221245
>fucking admit it and buy source.
>hackers start producing hacks to get money directly from developers
OH GOOD FUCKING IDEA LETS JUST PAY THEM TO STOP MAKING HACKS.
That'll work out perfectly for everyone.
>>342228784
>"Bought the game again... didn't hack on it at all, just wanted to enjoy the game a bit. Two days later—banned again.
>hack
He said so himself. Nice try though.
>>342221245
>(((polygon)))
>>342221245
The article makes it clear the the hacks' author used paragon footage to advertise it and made a profit off of it. At this point, he deserves a lawsuit. If he only made the hacks for educational or research purposes and distributed it for free then he probably wouldn't deserve a lawsuit.
>>342228701
it seems like they're suing for pretty much showing off the game and advertising it as his own entity
>>342228885
OR JUST PAY YOUR OWN DEVELOPERS YOU'VE HIRED TO MAKE YOUR ANTI-CHEAT IMPENETRABLE
WHO WOULD HAVE THOUGHT YOU CAN DO THAT
retard
>>342228923
Specify what exactly he did, point by point, deserves a lawsuit. backing up wiht existing examples would be good.
>>342228857
What? Are you retarded. I just told you.
>>342228954
>anti-cheat
>impenetrable
never existed in any game ever
it's literally impossible to stop cheaters, nothing has ever worked perfectly.
>>342228805
Hes not modifying shit, hes looking at the memory and using that data to show player positions and for the aimbot.
No modification to the game is needed what so ever.
I've made hacks, i've sold hacks.
>>342228906
Like I said, you don't understand what you're talking about.
Hacking a game is more or less running some script you found online which is exactly what this clown did.
Hacking to avoid a hardware ban is still very entry level shit and it requires you to, you guessed it, run some scripts you found online.
The fact that he can do one but not the other tells you EXACTLY where his level of knowledge ends.
>>342228930
That's a nice bonus yes
>>342229060
So they are better, how is this their fault?
>>342225584
Cheating in a game doesn't have legal consequences. Coding cheats that require another person's software, advertising them using said software, and then profiting off of this while damaging said person's business does have legal consequences.
>>342221245
>In my opinion, it is really pathetic to abuse the law to beat the "hacker". If some random german kid know your product better than you and you, as a big company, fail to be betetr than him with all your resources - fucking admit it and buy source. But don't resort to such pity measures.
are you seriously trying to claim that some scriptkiddie throwing together an aimbot is in any way impressive or an admirable feat?
fucking kill yourself
>>342229046
do you have any concept of critical thinking?
'they can sue for anything' does not follow from 'they sued for something'. you need something else to get there. what is it about this case that would establish precedence for them suing for anything else related to video games?
>>342228643
It really depends on how much source code he used because if its made 100% by him and can run without paragon installed they can go fuck themselves
>>342229110
The user has full access to his own computer's memory. The only impenetrable cheat protection would be running the whole game on your own servers and only streaming video to the user.
>>342229120
>Coding cheats that require another person's software
It does not use any part of the copyrighted code.
>advertising them using said software
He did not advertise his cheat in Paragon - he simply can't do it because see point #1
>and then profiting off of this
So he can'0t profit on his own intellectual work?
>>342225378
>If you have an aimbot, or something similar, it's usually really indicative of designing your game really, really poorly.
You're an idiot.
>>342228954
>ANTI-CHEAT
>IMPENETRABLE
Pick one you fucking mongoloid.
Why not make a fucking OS that is virus-proof?Because its practically impossible to make 100% secure software you fucking shithead
>>342229064
it is a modification to the existing game. it bolts onto the existing game and allows you to do more stuff with it. that's a modification.
>>342229148
>are you seriously trying to claim that some scriptkiddie throwing together an aimbot is in any way impressive or an admirable feat?
No, faglord, I do not. If you did bother to read my post instead of getting instantly analfrustrated you did understand.
it wasn't about some random script-kiddie, it was about the fucked up situation in general.
>>342221245
shouldn't have agree to the EULA
>>342229242
You mean to say I can't cheat in someone else's let's play they recorded 6 months ago?
>>342229034
He used footage of a game he doesn't own to advertise something he was selling. Furthermore, what he was selling could potentially turn players away from the game, resulting in losses for Epic.
I don't have any existing example but you're free to use someone else's IP to advertise your mom's business and see how it goes for you.
>>342227525
There's a difference between cheating in a singleplayer game and cheating in a multiplayer game.
>>342228923
just because someone might deserve some comeuppance doesn't mean a lawsuit is valid. Not only does it entirely hold it's ground on shaky and corporate-backed copyright law that can be interpreted to favor the plaintiff in every case rather than being truly impartial law, it spells disastrous for software development as a whole
The only reason anyone could possibly think this is a good thing is because they are either so retarded that they let blind hatred of cheaters cloud their eyes to the greater repercussions or they are legitimately shills
>>342229269
Okay, so?
How is this the basis to sue someone out?
>it is impossible to make perfect defense so we just sue someone because cookies
autism
>>342225307
>Oh right, EULA doesn't overrule Federal or State laws
And what laws are we talking about here in this particular case? You can assume that the defendant is the citizen of the US if you want.
>>342229218
Jesus fuck.
If they can sue for someone editing a game, they can sue for someone playing a specific game.
>>342229297
It doesn't modify anything, it reads it doesn't modify.
It overlays it doesn't modify.
>>342225685
Microsoft pays like 10k for security flows you report. Epic isn't going to give you shit and he made a tool that goes into the game and fucks it up, the game wasn't fucked in that sense until he did it.
>>342229375
Yeah. It's the number of people.
What do you think, I'm stupid?
>>342229297
No, original code is not modified. User plays vanilla game, only the runtime code is modified and there are a LOT of factors that can modify it independently of cheat tool
There is literally nothing to talk about. He did not release modified copy of the game.
>>342229323
Depends. If they recorded it as something like a Quake demo file that requires the game to run, you can absolutely use cheats like a wallhack while watching it.
>>342229483
He did release a modified experience of the game that affects other users.
>>342229473
>What do you think, I'm stupid?
Yes.
>>342229397
>just because someone might deserve some comeuppance doesn't mean a lawsuit is valid.
are you a dingus
selling a product using someone else's work without their permission is like the most common and well established grounds for litigation there is
>it is really pathetic to abuse the law to beat the "hacker"
>using the law for exactly what it is intended for
>"abuse"
Don't you have a lawsuit to prepare for?
>>342229338
>He used footage of a game he doesn't own to advertise something he was selling.
There are hundreds of monetized let's plays and reviews of Paragon - why he SPECIFICALLY not allowed to do so? Because EPIC says so? So the other people are breaking law too?
>Furthermore, what he was selling could potentially turn players away from the game, resulting in losses for Epic.
Subjective strawman argument. You can say a store selling kitchen knife potentially selling murder weapons, will you sue the owner of the store then?
>>342221245
admin he doing it sideways
>>342223538
Because that tactic worked so well against piracy, right?
>>342229578
as far as I'm aware, he's not selling Paragon
>>342229563
I wish more games allowed this. In-game recordings of gameplay that can be shared and distributed at 1/100th of the filesize of a typical video.
>>342229431
>If they can sue for someone editing a game, they can sue for someone playing a specific game
again - how does this follow? stop repeating yourself and use some fucking reasoning.
>>342229464
semantics. it doesn't matter what the actual code is, my point concerns the function of the product, which expands - and compromises - the functionality of the existing game.
>>342229567
No, he did not. He released a too. It is up to user to use modified experience
You are missing the critical point in logical chain - his tool on its own does nothing. it requires a user using it. Applying it.
>>342229618
>Subjective strawman argument.
You have no idea what that means, and your analogy is terrible.
A knife being able to be used to stab things other than food doesn't make the knife worse at stabbing food. Hacks in their online game directly undermines the exact product Epic is trying to sell.
>>342221245
>german cuck hacks and cheats because his women get fucked by muslims
You cant make that shit up.
>>342229749
Which he had to use to test. He had to use it a lot to test it. That avenue you're using is a dead end.
>>342229686
no, he's selling a product that relies upon paragon to work and is advertised using paragon - both of which are very litigious things to do.
>>342229615
What was it intended for in this case?
Feel free to provide examples.
>>342229403
>How is this the basis to sue someone out?
Fuck if I know; I didn't mention it.
I only pointed out that paying hackers is a fucking awful idea.
Paying these shitheads is the software equivalent of paying off a ransom to kidnappers.
You could argue he generated sales because people wanted to try out the hack and became more engaged in the game because of it.
and even possibly had multiple accounts doing the same because of bans.
>>342221395
>jurors
I used to believe in the ideal of democracy once upon a time but I would not trust the fuckwits, too dumb to get out of jury duty, as a jury.
Not to mention the farce of untechnical people judging technical things on technical merits.
A farce!
"B-b-but expert witnesses"
Who are paid a fee by the side presenting them.
>>342229731
>change setting in the config
>you've technically just modified the game
>you're now liable to be sued
>>342229409
Since this person is German, I'm not sure on German law. But State laws vary from state to state. Federal level, it's essentially fair use of electronic goods. If you buy an application, you own a copy, rather than a mere license to use it. As a result, all fair use and other rights outlined in the Copyright Act still apply. Simply put, it depends on how scumbaggy a company wants to be to have conflicting interpretations of how far a EULA can reach and what effect an overly–restrictive one can have on our fair use rights. Until the Supreme Court decides to step in and lay down the law, all we're left with is conflicting interpretations and bad software licenses. But see, none of that looks good on PR
>>342228218
People can already sue each other for any reason already. The kicker is if one wins or not.
Man get out more cause you sound like one dumb and sheltered faggot you know.
>>342229762
>A knife being able to be used to stab things other than food doesn't make the knife worse at stabbing food.
Retard, you did not even bother to read what I say or what you wrote. Knife in my analogy was the cheat tool.
jesus why do I even...
>>342221245
>sportsmanship making a living
you're a fucking idiot
>>342229859
depending on the circumstances of the trial, juries are usually less to blame for the outcome than the judge giving them the legal direction and the representations given on behalf of both parties.
yes i know that people vs oj simpson show was very frustrating. but juries are generally given very clear instructions, which they follow, and the fault in the system is not theirs.
>>342229909
Then your analogy is even more retarded than I thought. The knife existing does not undermine the store at large, and the store itself is choosing to sell it.
>>342229845
>I only pointed out that paying hackers is a fucking awful idea.
Why? That's pretty biased point of view. You may not like the software they produce (like cracks and stuff) but it still a software.
I don't like guns being produced so what
>>342229909
I don't know why any of you faggots keep trying to use analogies of things no where related to what you're talking about
But you fucking mongoloid idiots keep doing it.
>>342229869
As I said here
>>342229859
The farce of untechnical people trying to judge technical things on technical merits.
It's a disaster; it's an argument for eugenics.
>>342229869
change it so that it gives you an advantage which harms the experience of other players, then sell that modification, and then yes you are liable.
>>342229464
Anon, how the fuck can a program "Read" what's visually on the screen? Because it fucking doesn't. It relies on the data and game itself to do anything, don't fucking try and pretend that code can magically understand visual cues now.
>>342229815
>he's selling a product that relies upon paragon to work
show me where it says that's litigious in any code of law that's not from some dystopian hellhole
>advertised using paragon
I read the full article and yeah, that's definitely something to get him sued but that doesn't validify the destruction nor condemnation of the code he wrote
>>342229731
How does it follow? What do you even mean how it follow? If you can sue for that it opens up suing for things related.
>>342230120
Playing with a better quality mouse, keyboard, high refresh-rate monitor and powerful GPU techynically gives you advantage at some point
Now what?
>>342230120
>It relies on the data and game itself to do anything
So you're saying that it READS the data?
>>342230041
blog elsewhere, retard. what's wrong with that example?
>>342230038
>I don't know why any of you faggots keep trying to use analogies of things no where related to what
They are related,
I used analogy because he failed to understand otherwise
>>342230027
or you were just incapable of understanding it even though I went so low to make primitive analogy
>>342230197
You could say it... PLEADS the data
>>342230197
>if it does this
>instead of intended, do this
>not modified
>>342230020
A legal system does not make up for the deficiencies in the evaluative systems of the people who compromise a jury.
You're begging for monkeys to understand sign language or you're a lawyer skilled in rhetoric.
If you let "the people" decide your fate on anything, you're a cuck.
>the fault in the system is not theirs
It's twinfold. The system assumes competence, which isn't guaranteed by reality. And then the selection process weeds out the listless and the dumb. If I'm intelligent and working, I'm not going to jury duty. It's that simple.
>>342229873
So he still had a contract with them, regardless whether EULA stands in the court or not.
>>342230197
It reads the data and uses IN GAME DATA to do shit. Or do you think that the pgroam just magically presses keyboard buttons? No, it presumably uses commands and lines of code within the game to know what to do.
You can try and pretend all you like, the fact is that a hack program does rely on a game's data and code to do anything, including modifying existing data (Seeing through walls for example). It's why you can't just take one cheat program for one game and apply it to a completely different game.
>>342230323
Not even good.
>>342230343
>instead of intended, do this
Not necessary for aimbot.
I'd give you most wallhacks, though.
>>342230372
In this sense you are right. But it would still be very hard to get a 100% certainty on that. It's legally grey. There is no concrete answer. I just don't see the majority of this case holding up in court. Maybe he'll get hit with 2 / 10 things they try to nab him for but I can't see a full 100% ruling. Now a settlement I can easily see.
>>342230029
What the fuck kind of argument is that?
Pay attention you stupid bitch:
I said
>Paying these shitheads is the software equivalent of paying off a ransom to kidnappers.
Or do I have to explain further?
If game developers pay the hacks developer, they're essentially rewarding these fucks for ruining the game. The hackers now have ledger. They can either be paid off or they can fucking ruin the game for the customers.
And it wouldn't be a one-time thing either. The faggots would keep shitting out hacks and ruin the game until they were paid.
KYS
Y
S
>>342230453
You don't program so you wouldn't get it.
>>342230576
Motherfucker I'll have you know I read my SICP every single day.
>>342230471
Aimbots are usually the hardest to detect, even if it seems blatant to everyone playing.
>>342221245
>there is a fine difference between developing a tool that bypasses game's defenses and being a cheating scum.
Differences that don't really matter legally.
It's the same reason that they go after people who seed torrents, and not the ones who leech them. If you stop people from seeding there won't be as much to leech
We've also seen something similar. Blizzard sued a bot-making company for copyright infringment, and the lawsuit was a success.
This is just another case that's ultimately following the same trend. It's nothing new.
>tfw started small vending machine business
>tfw worked really hard and now have a moderate success
>tfw some smartass made a tool to steal from my machines and is selling it to a lot of people
>tfw the cheeky cunt is even taping advertisements for his tool on my machines
>tfw legitimate clients stop using my machines because they're empty
>tfw it'll take me some time and a lot of money to fix the vulnerability in my machine's design
>tfw I finally had enough and take action against the rude brat
>tfw I'm the bad guy
>>342230686
Doing shit like this publicly is why they're being criticized. If they don't want their moves to be monitored and reported on they're in the wrong fucking business.
>>342230120
>>342230343
>>342230442
Seeing through walls doesn't require modifying data, his program READS data like i said and then his program draws an overlay window which is where the ESP comes from. All without modifying their code.
For the aimbot he can be reading as before and using a simple moveTo function and click function within windows, not touching the game data.
Like I said i've made and sold hacks so don't try to sprout your bullshit to me I know how it works.
Well thats one way to get money out of your dead game
>>342230156
no it doesn't, that requires precedent. precedent means that in a case which has similar logic and consequences you will get the same result. it does not mean that you will get the same result in a completely different scenario within the same fucking area of business.
>>342230145
>show me where it says that's litigious in any code of law that's not from some dystopian hellhole
it depends on the licensing, but you can see right up there it mentions breach of contract and unfair competition. it's not hard to see how they apply in this case.
The lawsuit claims that Kreibich created videos that demonstrated the hack. The videos were removed after Epic sent takedown notices on June 1 and June 6. According to the lawsuit, Kreibich filed counters on both videos with YouTube, which subjected them to the jurisdiction of the Northern District of California, where YouTube is located. This allowed Epic to file a lawsuit against Kreibich in California.
LMAO
THE FUCKING RETARD
YOU'RE SUPPOSED TO PUT BULLSHIT INFO IN THAT FORM FOR THAT EXACT REASON
YOUTUBE WILL PERMANENTLY LEAVE YOUR VIDEO UP EVEN IF YOU ARE INFRINGING COPYRIGHT IF YOU DO THIS BECAUSE DMCA IS FUCKING BROKEN AND SHIT
AHAHAHAHA
FUCKING
I
D
I
O
T
>>342224150
>There is a reason why Sony had to buy Bleemcast and not just sue them
Actually, Sony sued them knowing full well that it was in the wrong to kill the company - since it couldn't release its product as long as the trial was ongoing, and then picked them clean.
>>342230520
I don't think you understand how source code purchase works.
They are paying to get their hand on full product. They can then implement anti-cheat based on product. Hacker no longer can use or sell it he will have to put a lot of effort and develop a new one. In fact, it may be impossible to him or just amount of effort won't worth it (see Denuvo).
You are talking about something similar to blackmailing, no idea where did this came from.
>>342230686
these analogies are the worst, I don't even care what side your picking on the matter, please stop this. They're never accurate or coherent.
>>342230779
>Doing shit like this publicly is why they're being criticized
But why? What's there to criticize? What's bad about what they're doing?
>>342221245
Meanwhile EA gives no shit about DAMNCheaters and lets people run around battlefront ending matches 150/0
>>342230667
depends on the country, honorbuddy in germany won battles against blizzard because the copyright laws there are different, if it was china they wouldnt give a shit
