Sticker Star is so fucking bad that it retroactively made Super Paper Mario a good game.
It was always a good game. The ball didn't get dropped until SS
No, SPM is still shit.
SPM killed Paper Mario
Sticker star defiled its corpse.
>>342204214
WHY IS IT SO FUCKING HARD TO MAKE ANOTHER TTYD? TTYD HAD EVERYTHING PM HAD BUT ADDED MORE CONTENT AND TWEAKED THE GAMEPLAY. IT'S NOT A FUCKING HARD CONCEPT TO GRASP!
SPM is a Paper Mario without the RPG.
SS is an RPG without the Paper Mario.
I'll take the first over the second anyday.
SPM is a Paper Mario game for the same reason the first two are: It blends story with gameplay mechanics.
Remember TTYD, the game everyone heralds for being "the best Paper Mario game"? What does everyone say was great about that game? Chapter 3? 4? Possibly even 6? 3 was good because it took that chapter's arc (being at a massive fighting arena in the sky), and applied it to the game's core mechanic. Fights there only took place inside the arena, and you had objectives in battle to satisfy the audience with. Chapter 4 may be riddled with backtracking, but it's easy to lose track of it while your mind is racing after the bossfight.
Now take a step back and look at SPM. What are some stand out moments from there? Chapter 4? 6? 7? These all follow the same pattern. Chapter 4 takes you into a side-scrolling shooter section, to fit with the space theme (while interacting with the main character of that chapter, no less). Chapter 6, as heavy as it may be may be, goes out of its way to show the player the world they leave behind if they fail.
The RPG mechanics aren't what make a Paper Mario game a Paper Mario game. This is why Sticker Star is a shit Paper Mario game, and this is why I'm sad to see M&L take the place of "the Mario RPG series."
>>342204808
That requires actual effort
Neo Nintendo won't allow that
>>342204214
SPM was always a good game though.
>>342204808
Shiggy said Sticker Star's beta was too much like TTYD so the new team did a total 180 and redid everything. Color Splash was made right after so they never saw reception (or maybe they still haven't and have been oblivious the whole time).
>"Muh Toads"
No, IS, just no.
>>342207046
I agree 100%. I don't understand why Nintendo thinks people loved Paper Mario for the papery theme and puzzles. Sure, the papery feel helped the game out alot, and the puzzles were decent but they treat it like its so fucking amazing and its the only reason people bought the fucking games.
Mario and Luigi are fucking top notch games, don't get me wrong. But, you're fucking retarded to believe that it should replace Paper Mario, the fucking original rpg series.
>>342210893
to be fair alphadream is made up of ex-square employees who worked on SMRPG, so they were arguably first
>>342204214
It was a good game, it was just disappointing in the sense that it played almost nothing like its predecessors. It's one of the few games I've traded in, but it wasn't because I thought it sucked, I just saw no point in ever replaying it.
>>342210893I wish M&L's artstyle would replace the main series one
That would imply super paper mario was a bad game to begin with.
![608[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/YizNO32.jpg "608[1].jpg")
>>342209178
>so since we already have that series of games that you know are more a straight up RPG we kind of feel like it would be a shame if like there's this other series of games
>and I think those original Paper Mario games what people liked about them was I'd say the RPG elements but there was also the colorful elements, the puzzle solving, the humor
HOW THE FUCK CAN THEY BE SO WRONG ABOUT EVERYTHING
I always liked Super Paper Mario
it wasn't as good gameplay wise, but it had really good writing and music
>>342211269
I've found SPM to be more replayable than its predecessors because of how simple it is. There's no tedious bullshit like the other games, just fun cutscenes and moving forward. TTYD had the puni level where you had to deal with them getting stuck in the floor and lost, and the Twilight Town level with the backtracking, and running back and forth on the island level.
>>342212473
Game was too easy once you got bowser
Writing wise the first boss spouting computer errors as he spazzes out and the iguanas dating Sim were great. To me the rest of the writing was kind of meh. And the melodramitic love story with Bleck and whatsherface was crap.
The game pretty forgettable.
>>342213060
>not liking melodrama in your mehrio games
faggot, also the underchomp and river twygz was super cool. you could even say super paper cool, get it, haha
>>342213060
The game is just easy in general. I think SPM might actually be the easiest Mario game.
So is it pretty much unanimously agreed upon that SPM has the best story of any mario game? I guess that's not really saying much, but still.
>>342207046
nah, the rpg mechanics are what makes it.
you're a retard
>>342204214
SPM never was bad, you fucking stupid TTYDfag.
>>342209178
>What's your least favorite Mario character?
>Toad
It's like Miyamoto is trying to trigger my autism.
>>342209178
By the sounds of it, everyone involved with the Paper Mario games currently are terrible.
>>342204214
No, it's a more enjoyable expierence due to the care that you can see was put into it, which is much more apparent now that we've seen how lazy they can be with SS.
That, however, does not make it a good game. The mechanics, gameplay and characters still suck, and the story is still weekday kidsWB anime fan fiction tier.
>>342204214
Super Paper Mario is good. It's just not as good as TTYD, and it gets boring a good ways through the game. Music was great as always, though, and there were some feels to be had. I also really liked some of the character designs, like Count Bleck, Mimi, and King Croacus(sp?).
>>342209194
You can't squarely put the blame for that on IS. The owners of the IP have a (major) say in what goes and what doesn't. Mayamoto has made everything "muh toads" since NSMBWii was such a huge fucking smash hit. It sold so well he stupidly assumed that every mario game since had to follow that formula.
Its not one or the other. Tanabe is a fucking klutz hack that killed the gameplay, Mayamoto is a senile retard that sterilized the story. The duo are responsible for what we have today. Neither half is worse than the whole.
I really liked SPM, but thats mostly because I dont really like RPG mechanics
>>342215290
>So is it pretty much unanimously agreed upon that SPM has the best story of any mario game
wanna know how I know you watch anime?
>>342215809
this
/v/ always says "It's a good game, but a bad ___ game" is a shit saying, but I feel it actually really works for SPM
Spm gameplay was mediocre but had semi decent writing to make it worthwhile
Sticker star is just a chore to play which is why it is not fun
>>342209178
>obviously we'll have to think of a new paper-based theme
jesus fucking christ, the next one is going to be origami and its all going to be papercraft battles from PJ isn't it?
>>342219906
You just predicted the future and its sad.
>>342204808
I agree.
Paper Mario has very very simple graphics, combat, puzzles. What's stopping an indie from making their own clone of it? Really? I can understand there being to indie answer for DMC4-- that takes a lot of experience to get right-- but those timed hits and 2D characters? That's very very doable.
Friendly Reminder https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7w4FGwguIPA
>>342221861
it wouldn't be the same. most of the charm comes from it being a mario game.
>>342221973
Does it? Does it really? Are you saying that if you re-wrote Paper Mario to be about Link or about Pikachu and it had the same level of craft and charm to it that it wouldn't be as good because it wasn't Goombas and Pow blocks you were hitting? Remove yourself from the nostalgia, as nice as it is, and I think a Paper Mario-like game would be just as fun even without familiar characters and whatnot.
>>342209178
>we already have that series of games that you know are more a straight up RPG
M&L is about as far from a straight up RPG I can imagine while still being an RPG. I get the distinct feeling that they've not actually played that series if they think they're anything alike.Funny puppet man puts it better than I ever could.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gR11d5I-5RQ
>>342222372
>Are you saying that if you re-wrote Paper Mario to be about Link or about Pikachu and it had the same level of craft and charm to it that it wouldn't be as good because it wasn't Goombas and Pow blocks you were hitting?
yes
stick of truth was basically a fucking remake set in south park and it didn't have the same charm.
there's another fan game with a dinosaur or something that looks just like PM, but it doesn't have the same feel that PM did. Same with another one an anon here is making with a bunch of bugs. They might be nice, but they're not paper mario.
>>342209194
And the Toad cancer even spread throughout the new Mario Party. It's gone malignant! No hope!
>>342224760
once again, that was miyamoto after seeing NSMBWii take off.
Eat shit faggot,
SPM was my second paper mario after 64 and i liked it.
>>342209178
What does an assistant producer actually do?
>>342225083
The head producer comes up with the game ideas. The assistant producer communicates those ideas to the rest of the staff.
>>342223036
Okay dude no, Stick of Truth went in the complete fucking opposite direction in terms of tone. No shit it doesn't have the same quality of writing when the writing quality wasn't the same and also was written with a bombastically different audience in mind. What the fuck are you thinking, of course that's not going to feel the same.
TTYD was fantastic. The story was great, the gameplay was better than SPM or SS by a landslide, and as far as the Punis and backtracking in Twilight Town and on the island, what fun would a game be if it was ALL easy? They really fucked up by abandoning something that worked. Don't fix what isn't broken Nintendo fags.
>younger people in the company are helping making the games more big & ambitious than before
>metal gear zelda: the phantom wild
>a shitload of efforts put into mario kart 8 backgrounds for no reason
>cool graphical effects in super mario 3D world regardless of the miniamlist designs
>meanwhile paper mario is dead
>nintendo is forcing mario & luigi into dying too
>mario tennis: ultra smash came out unfinished and nintendo let it happen
>fucking metroid prime: federation force
i can't understand what is going on or what we should expect from now on
>hes so full of memes that he ACTUALLY thinks spm is a bad game
>>342226998
>As far as the Punis and backtracking in Twilight Town and on the island, what fun would a game be if it was ALL easy?
You're confusing tedium with challenge.
>>342227021
>nintendo is forcing mario & luigi into dying too
Not a single bad game in the whole series. Even PiT is good despite being the worst one.
So yeah, keep your autistic doom and gloom for Paper Mario and cry yourself to sleep.
super paper mario was fun and it had great music. sticker star is cancer though and sticker star 2 looks just as terrible.
>>342227507
Nintendo butted heads with AlphaDream while they were making Dream Team, forcing them to make the whole Luigi subconscious thing more tame (and Bowser being the final boss sounds like something Nintendo would have enforced too).
>>342226998
anon difficulty isn't why people hate backtracking, it's becuase it's tedious and boring, which the backtracking in TTYD isn't immune of.
This is why PM64 slightly edges out TTYD for the best in the series. Really hope the NX brings with it the 3rd paper mario game.
>>342204214
You can't even compare TTYD and SPM since they're not even the same damn genre.
TTYD is a full-fledged RPG while SPM is a decent platformer with "rpg" elements thrown in.
>>342227684
That's very far from "forcing to die". And the Bowser being the final boss is a big fat assumption.
>>342227507
get ready for eternal M&L trashtalking for the most inane reasons by these kiddies anon. They know know it's part of the reason PM is shit now, no way they're gonna leave it alone.
Just keep enjoying the games I guess and be aware of PM falseflaggers
>>342227815
Paper Jam having strong influence from only the most recent game (which has been critically panned), then?
>>342219092
This is a good post, but bad v post
>>342219906
Didn't we already have origami in a way? I mean, the shit you can turn into in TTYD is papercraft.
>>342227507
Each new M&L is blander than the last.
>>342215809
If you played Paper Mario for the RPG mechanics then go play a good RPG instead.
Paper Mario's soul is in it's writing. SS sucked because it had bad gameplay on top of that, but Paper Mario could work with any kind of gameplay.
