>hey our turn based game is all about strategy but its a little shallow, what should we do about it?
>how about we put the players on a timer and make it more like an action game
>genius!
Why is this allowed?
How many games even still use ATB? It's all about turn based these days.
Goddamn /v/ is fucking shit.
>>342042830
You said it
>>342042830
this
what the fuck is wrong with atb system?
ATB is not about being superior or being more challenging than other types of battle systems.
The ATB turn based system is an improvement of the standard turn based system, it's an evolution I would say. It makes you more involved in the battles and make them therefore more interesting.
nothing more. also, people like turn based because its been the battle system the very first and most successfull jrpgs used.
the turn based battle system belongs to jrpgs like the first person perspective belongs to first person shooters. those are the fundamental ways of playing those games.
>>342042456
>and make it more like an action game
wat.
>>342042456
>I am too young to have enjoyed the best game ever made
ok kid, get off the computer. you have to be 18+ to post here.
>>342042456
Except it was used in this game specifically because they had dual and triple techs.
>>342044775
Kek
A shallow jrpg with mediocre combat, completely average graphics, an ost never worth mentioning, and a silly 15 hour story is not the best game ever.
>>342042456
>jrpgs
>strategy
lolwut. atb is just there so you have another stat to watch grow (speed/agility/whatever), and to make retards feel barely more involved while holding down whatever button auto-selects attacks in each game.
>>342043963
It's rather good, so obviously /v/ hates it.
>>342042830
Stay mad faggot.
>>342044974
Being real here, the OST is the only thing I'd consider notable from that game. Agreed on all your other points
>>342042456
>CT
>all about strategy
Nope.
>>342042830
quality post
>>342042456
ATB is artificial difficulty.
>>342048241
ATB isn't even difficult.
>>342042456
Thank god Nomura and Tabata modernized this fucking series. Final Fantasy would have died off if not for them.
>tfw we'll never get a new turnbased FF because from here on it's going to be nothing but half-baked action games that alienate old fans and don't bring in many new ones
Feels awful man
>>342049250
Just accept that gaming has left you behind. We are no longer the target demographic. Its kids that grew up on Kingdom Hearts and Halo now.
>>342049097
Not sure if troll or retarded.
>>342044974
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t5uzOzk4U9g
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UfCV1bVOiGc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xpaJulksCik
What are you talking about?
>>342042456
ATB was a mistake. FFX and DQ show that regular turn-based can still work just fine
Why do people pretend ATB makes turn-based more strategic?
I actually don't mind ATB, but stop fucking pretending.
It's not so lightning fast that it forces twitch decisions you may not have otherwise made in normal turn-based. Especially in the games that pause ATB when you open a menu.
You end up playing the same exact fucking way as you would without it. It's a fake gameplay addition.
Screw you!
ATB owns.
>>342049517
I grew up in the prime of this era and I remember the music from FF2, FF3, Secret of Mana like they are etched into my mind permanently
I cannot remember a single track from chrono trigger whatsoever. Not even a few notes. Not the guy you're responding to though.
>>342042456
thats a good h game
Couldn't you toggle between Active and Wait?
>>342045587
Whats so good about it?
>>342049324
Kingdom Hearts is good though. It also is separate from FF don't blame KH for FF turning to shit.
>>342050043
THIS
All ATB does is stress me out. It the same gameplay as regular turn based but now the boss can use its most powerful move twice before I even have a chance to attack. I feel like Id be having so much more fun had I picked wait.
>>342050434
All I said was that the KH crowd is the audience SE caters to now.
>>342050560
Well with XV that is true but that was supposed to be a spinoff FF went to shit before XV.
>>342050193
Well to each his own, I guess. I even avoided posting Frog or Robo's themes, which I feel are more recognizable and distinct.
>>342050434
>KH isn't FF
No shit.
>what are gaming trends
KH is an example of how jrpgs are trending more towards arpgs than turn-based.
Also, you're crazy if you don't think Square takes the popularity of KH into consideration when deciding to make other, older, formerly turn-based/ATB series like FF into arpgs, especially considering the overlap in the fanbases.
>>342050728
And once that is successful you can bet they will copy the system into XVI.
>>342050808
I didn't like the game. Even as an 12 year old, I had a perspective on game design that doing a bunch of stuff that most people would never see was wasted work and diminished the main game.
CT is a basically a non fun version of SoM. Similar game except with fun completely removed from the combat
>>342050339
yes
>>342050868
>>342050885
True, but I would rather have an arpg than whatever XIII was. I also don't think X was as good as the other FF games despite still being turn based. They should really make a classic FF series that has the old school gameplay and no voice acting. It could be lower budget than a modern AAA game but still be as good as the old ones.
>>342042456
Yeah ATB is absolute garbage and completely defeats the purpose of a turn-based combat system. There is no way to effectively plan your turns, you're often rushed into making shit decisions that cost you the battle forcing you to re-do, it really doesn't add anything to the gameplay experience besides making misclicks more frequent because you're trying to rush through the menus like a retard, or making some dumb mistake that you never would have made in a million years if you actually had time to think about what you were doing.
>>342051427
That style of FF would be a handheld probably. Voice acting is here to stay.
>>342044974
>OST hardly worth mentioning
Holy shit, I know this is bait, but come on man. Final Fantasy basically lost its soul when it lost the guy that composed the tracks in Chrono Trigger.
That's like talking shit on... some great person we all agree has some good points.
>>342051427
>They should really make a classic FF series that has the old school gameplay and no voice acting. It could be lower budget than a modern AAA game
They literally just made this game. It's called I Am Setsuna.
>but still be as good as the old ones.
It is not.
>>342044974
this
fucking weebs will praise this fucking game to their deaths tho
>>342050339
Wait is still ATB. It's just ATB that pauses once you get past the top level menu.
>>342051936
>It is not.
Then they didn't make it yet :^)
>>342042456
>Chrono Trigger is too fast a game
>>342051485
>it's like one of those infomercials that exaggerates how hard it is to hold a cup without spilling it everywhere
no amount of time in the world is gonna save you from indecision and poor motor skills, pleb
>>342052089
No. But. You don't understand. Lavos killed me in the black temple. There weren't any chest-high walls to hide behind, no automatically recovering shields. I couldn't even pay a nominal fee to unlock a special power up that would help me.
>>342042456
Most of the square games made pretty poor use of ATB. The Grandia series did it wonderfully, though. Being able to take your time planning your shit, having to account for positioning, and being able to cancel enemy actions makes for a fucking blast of a battle system. Too bad we will never see more Grandia games.
>>342052213
Why the fuck should motor skills even play a part in a turn-based game? It's literally artificial difficulty, menu navigation speed is not a factor that should decide the outcome of a battle.
>>342052495
It's not menu navigation it is thinking quickly on your feet. You have to strategize efficiently.
>>342052495
>Why the fuck should motor skills even play a part in a turn-based game?
I know this might surprise some of you, but in the 90s every single gamer was expected to have motor skills and not be some kind of cystic fibrosis retard.
>>342052823
>board game adaptations, gameshow adaptations, casino games, rpgs
there were options for people bad at video games
>>342053298
remember that jeopardy game
>shit had like 200 answers and would ask you the same answers all the fucking time
>>342042456
this would've been so much better as a srpg like arc the lad.
>>342051485
>>342052495
Were you emulating? Is this >>342031567 you?
>>342043963
ATB is for people who suck at action games but want to feel more "hardcore"
>>342047408
what's so great about it? I can't even think of a single standout track besides the opening. CC > CT matsuda's a one hit wonder.
>>342053912
1/10
only because you put effort into it.
>>342053912
What's it like being tone deaf?
>>342054209
link me some that standout. I really can't think of any. all I remember is the shitty battle theme over and over.
>>342042456
>hey this game is fun as fuck but it's mentioned a whole lot and that annoys me, what should i do about it?
>how about i just bait people into replying to me in order to shit on it, i'm sure decades haven't gone by with it being recognised as one of the greatest games ever made already
>genius!
You were allowed because euthanasia is illegal
>>342042456
why don't you pick "wait" mode? You cry baby lil bitch
>>342052089
Its not that its too fast but the way the system works the boss can literally use its two most powerful attacks in a row before I can even move once. I'm on some water fuck.
>>342052724
Yeah but you still have to fucking scroll through menus to get to what you want to do, and by the time you find it and select the player/monster to use it on the enemy could hvae already used its most powerful moves like 5 fucking times. ATB could work if there were dedicated buttons or some shit.
>>342042456
ATB is required to disguise the fact that the combat is shallow and repetitive - it's a way to speed the game up and reduce boredom.
Turn based is for disabled people or the otherwise mentally retarded
>>342055032
that means you're underleveled for the boss. your speed stats need to be higher or the enemy gets several turns for your one turn
>>342054794
fucking this
>>342054547
>hey this guy made a post talking shit on game I like
>I'll just pretend that the guy actually loves the game and is just pretending to hate it for le (yous)
>genius!
>>342055361
>>342054794
I didn;t think there was a way to change it after you started the game
>>342053754
Action games aren't even hard.
The only good ATB system is the one in Grandia.
>>342055378
You'd be surprised, a lot of sick fucks actually like to do that here.
>>342054325
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UzC0MEDHcv4
![terranigma-wlp1-1920x1200[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/NV6Jcb1.jpg "terranigma-wlp1-1920x1200[1].jpg")
I'm glad Europe got the better game.
The younger this board gets, the worse the quality gets. The taste just erodes over time. Fucking disgraceful.
>>342055894
explain to why chrono trigger's battle system is good
>>342054325
>>342050808
>>342049517
Here again. If those three didn't do it:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rHEFrWspqIM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7VXzhZwfCZs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z5PyG42VWvk
Maybe one of these will.
>>342042830
>one person is all of /v/
ok
>>342055886
you didn't get CT? why not?
also, yeah, that is pretty good.
Because its fuckin genius, OP
>>342056037
dual/triple techs
>>342049517
>>342056053
serviceable. nothing your average jrpg doesn't have.
>>342049653
you can even pause CT, so there's no point to have it.
>>342056318
>nothing your average jrpg
Post a track that sounds about the same as Corridors of Time, Schala's theme, and Lavos' final form. DO IT
>>342056037
Don't know about other people, but I like the combination attacks you can do, and the fact that having different party members changes up those attacks. That and it's pretty fast paced as far as turn based RPGs goes. Typically attacks aren't overly lengthy, so cycling through them isn't a problem.
I just don't see why anyone would hate it unless they prefer more action oriented games. And it's not even that difficult to grapple with either. Time limit or not the game is pretty forgiving, almost too easy.
>>342049653
>FFX
>regular turn-based
It's been a long time since I played it but as far as I remember the "turn based" system in FFX was just a disguised ATB system.
>>342055149
nailed it. this is the problem with ATB. it limits strategy too much.
![30775216_p0[1].png](https://i.imgur.com/GEPjbMg.png "30775216_p0[1].png")
>>342042456
are you ready to admit Chrono Trigger's older sister is superior?
>>342056631
You remembered wrong.
>>342056631
nah, you could swap out turns though.
>>342042456
>Op is a cock gargling faggot
Why is this allowed?
>>342055149
Bingo.
>>342053754
ATB is for people who like ATB.
Don't try to be a smart alec about it.
It's just a freindly push for people who otherwise get caught up in min-maxing every single move, and Chrono Trigger isn't a very hard game, so you don't have to.
>>342056631
what made FFX different is that instead of
>you assign all of your parties attacks
>your opponent does the same
>speed stat+rng decides who goes in what order
FFX goes:
>you can see the entire turn list
>each attack has its own 'recovery' time that changes turn order
>turn order is updated each time speed is adjusted
and of course, you go one at a time instead of entire parties. its closer to FF Tactics except no moving around the field
>>342056729
No I'm pretty sure characters got to act more frequently depending on some speed stat. It's literally the same as ATB with pause during action selection.
God i love chrono trigger
CC > CT
>>342055479
there's an entire screen dedicated to choosing before it even lets you start the game
>>342056970
That is not ATB. It is turn-based with a speed stat.
>>342052495
Nearly all ATB based games have a setting you can enable where the timers pause while you're in item and spell menus. Turn it on.
>>342055149
>and by the time you find it and select the player/monster to use it on the enemy could hvae already used its most powerful moves like 5 fucking times.
It really shouldn't take that long. Maybe when you first start out and don't know shit, but it shouldn't be taking you a minute or so to navigate the menus and finding attacks. This goes double if you have an effective strategy beforehand.
>>342056984
Please don't be a super faggot in this thread.
>>342057212
Then you just open a menu and the game pauses and you can take your time deciding what to do. What's the point? ATB is just a piece of shit, period. At the beginning of the game you are bored waiting for fucking bars to slowly fill, and at the end everyone's bars fill so quickly that they are all waiting in a queue while animations finish and you no longer even know whose turn is coming up. The only Square game that really did ATB decently without being boring as shit was FFX-2, and that game had its own problems.
>>342057212
Shit when you go and search for your magic and what not in the Final Fantasies with ATB, the timer freezes right there and then. What the fuck is the problem here? Why are people struggling with this so much?
>>342056631
You kidding? The turn-based order was the main focus of the game's combat HUD.
>>342057119
No that is literally ATB with the "AT" part cleverly masked.
Honestly, ATB isn't that big of a deal. People are exaggerating it.
>>342057378
Enemy goes into counter-attack mode
With ATB you can wait patiently and do a full attack round at the first opportunity
Without ATB you have to dick around giving pointless commands and nobody's ready to fight when the next phase starts
>>342058176
The only time that has ever been used was in the first boss of FF7 and never again afterwards. And I don't mean just in FF7; It hasn't been used in any game ever after that.
>>342058176
No you don't have do that in wait mode, it only pauses if you enter detailed menu in most ff.
I love regular turnbased battle, because its simple and systematic.
>>342045319
>>jrpgs
>>strategy
t. someone's who never played an Atlus game
>>342058358
FF6 did it
FF5 did it
FF4 did itFF3 did it
FF9, 10/2, 11, 12, 13/2, 14 all have enemies that have a counter-stance. i can't think of one from FF8
>>342042456
>>342050043
It's more strategic, with ATB now we have another variable: speed. Even with ATB stopped in menus, speed characters still measures the players turns, and how changing such speed can change the order of those characters.
>There are people who don't think CT is one of the greatest games of all time.
All you poor saps are getting baited. Everyone alreadys know CT is GOAT.
>>342055317
>increasing speed through leveling
>in chrono trigger
>>342056318
>>342056593
Techs add almost no depth to the game. Getting them simply involve sticking a bunch of party members together and hoping they learn something decent, then doing whatever actually maximizes damage output in a given battle.
>>342057070
I thought I would like it. I heard asked some other players and they said it was the way to go.
Live A Live > Chrono Trigger > FF6
Live A Live is literally the perfect SNES RPG
prove me wrong you won't
>>342043963
It is the worst of both worlds, like real time with pause but not quite that shit.
>>342042830
>>342056084
When most of the posts are just trying to be contrarian and start arguments then yeah, /v/ is pretty shit. About 20% of posts will be trying to have an actual discussion about video games and then the rest are either just shit posting or people calling out shit posting. Seriously at this point Reddit is a hundred times better than this shit hole to discuss video games.
