To my knowledge, no one in or out of the field has ever been able to cite a game worthy of comparison with the great dramatists, poets, filmmakers, novelists and composers. That a game can aspire to artistic importance as a visual experience, I accept. But for most gamers, video games represent a loss of those precious hours we have available to make ourselves more cultured, civilized and empathetic.
—Roger Ebert
I never understood the need for people to win the approval of people like Ebert.
>>342039641
This.
He is right, though.
>>342039641
Nobody actually cares, we're just legally obligated to have at least 3 of these threads every day.
Video games aren't art. They're cheap, trashy entertainment for when you're not in the mood for real film, television or literature.
Although I will concede that video games are a notch above joints (Adam Sandler/Michael Bay trash for example) and personally I even prefer them to flicks because while they're equal in quality (or lack of), video games are more enjoyable.
"....."
-Roger Ebert, 2016
>>342039330
Ebert like every "film critic" was a pleb with no taste that constantly flip flopped. The second the american audience was awed by a movie he didn't like he had to redact it.
What a fucking bitch, one thing is having no taste. Another is being a flip flopping bitch. Same with trump.
Flip floppers are not human.
>video games aren't art.
Imagine being this delusional.
>>342040357
woops, that was my image for people who think lag means latency.
here's the one for people who think video games aren't art.
>>342039330
>art is important meme
art never changed shit, and any isntance you point to it changing shit im gonna stop you and ask first how you know that, and second how do you know the people making the changes are doing any of that because of some book or movie they read?
If you go by statistics most "world changing" works of art are vied my a minority of people when they are supposedly changing things
art being significant in any way is a meme
>>342039330
Video Games aren't art.
But as far as I am concerned, fuck anybody who tries to sound self-righteous and then completely negates it by being ignorant to the possibility of something.
>video games represent a loss of those precious hours we have available to make ourselves more cultured, civilized and empathetic
>YET, anything I don't like or approve of is a waste of time and can in no way be enriching to anybody.
What a faggot.
>videogames are a waste of time
>movies arent
lets be real here
>>342039330
How the fuck do you measure artistic value of a relatively new medium?
>>342039330
He's right, honestly.
>>342040056
(you)
>>342039330
"When a distinguished but elderly scientist states that something is possible, he is almost certainly right. When he states that something is impossible, he is very probably wrong."
To my knowledge, you are a faggot.
—Anonymous
>>342039330
That is a tranny. I'm not the only one who sees it right.
>video games represent a loss of those precious hours we have available to make ourselves more cultured, civilized and empathetic.
Says the guy who spent hundreds, thousands of hours watching crappy movies for his job.
>>342039330
>>342039701
>More cultured
what did he mean by this?
>>342040807
>literally posts modern art while talking about art being insignificant
KEK
EK
K
>>342043475
just an old shithead gone to seed
>>342039330
So his argument is that games suck because most people consume the ones that suck, as if this isn't true for all mediums.
>>342039330
Art comment aside, his reviews were shit and I disagreed with most of them. I'm glad he's dead either way.
>>342043883
are you retarded? or do you think any variation pf pepe matters at all?
>>342039330
Trolling is a art.
>>342039330
When ever I think about how games are not art I remind my self that many of these critics like shit like the new Star Wars movie and Avatar. Film is pretty bad but television is even worse with its bullshit like Swamp People and the Big Bang Theory.
When I see what kind of shallow garbage normies watch I come to the conclusion that I don't want them reviewing video games and I certainly don't want vidya to turn into the PC bullshit we see in Hollywood.
As a video game fan we don't need them. Including them only makes our hobby worse.
>>342039330
>movie critic says something
>i have to endure shit posting for the rest of time
Fuck ou and this thread. Again.
>>342040807
Ideology and politics follows art you moron.
>>342039701
>He is right, though.
Video games are just another medium to tell a story. My Grandparents loathed television and said pretty much the same thing Ebert is saying but about books being superior.
This is all just an old man trying to justify his personal tastes.
Life changes, deal with it.
Don't critique vidya around me or my wife's son again!
>>342044048
>conveys the posters meaning and adds context to their text
>insignificant
you're really quite dumb
>>342039330
>A medium has been around for a percent of a percent of the time that literature, theatre, and music has
>"Where's the culture!? Trogs! Pick up some Dostoevsky!"
Am I the only person who gets annoyed by people who jump the gun on ravenously supporting or condemning on anything extremely new? The fact that someone could be so cynical or naive to make a judgement call on something never seen before is dissapointing.
When the television was invented it was claimed it would be just a passing triviality, same for the internet or movies. Perhaps if people would be more confident in sitting on the fence prior to receiving evidence and reserving their judgement until then, then we'd see some actual creativity and innovation in the world (well, at least moreso then now).
>>342044653
>Video games are just another medium to tell a story.
Funny that in the thirty years games have been around the highest artform we've achieved is a decent fantasy novel and a movie-game made by a Japanese man.
This medium is trash in everyway but mechanical excellence.
>>342039641
People don't want video games to be "art," they just want to be respected for their hobby.
Which is fucking retarded. For every pretentious asshole that acts like they can only enjoy "real" movies there's millions of people that just wanna watch the new transformers or TMNT. For every artsy fartsy retard that thinks Gone Home or Her Story are pinnacles of the medium there's millions of people that bought a PS4 or Xbox One just to play that year's FIFA.
I honestly feel bad for people that need validation in the kinds of stupid entertainment they enjoy. I love Kamen Rider but I mean, it's a kids show about a bunch of dudes in spandex beating up other dudes in spandex. It's not high art and it doesn't need to be. Video games aren't that different. Sure there's more "artistic" games but there's also more "adult" Kamen Rider series, but no matter how you slice those they still boil down to a fun fantasy you can just enjoy for thirty minutes and while you can gleam real messages from them they aren't something you should ever take too seriously.
>>342039330
>People actually choose what media they consume based on some nobody's reviews
I will never understand the purpose of newspapers specifically hiring critics and publishing reviews. I understand that the main idea is for a critic to articulate and express the populace's sentiment, but when they start taking themselves so seriously that they consistently run against the grain just to be elitist they've failed in their capacity imo.
>>342039871
This
This so much.
It's amazing we are free from Jack Thompson threads lately.
>>342045240
>Funny that in the thirty years games have been around the highest artform we've achieved is a decent fantasy novel and a movie-game made by a Japanese man.
Yet for thousands of years we only have a few good books and sculptures.
Bring back the Romans.
>>342044954
>When the television was invented it was claimed it would be just a passing triviality
heh, they weren't wrong about the triviality of it.
>To my knowledge, no one in or out of the field has ever been able to cite a game worthy of comparison with the great dramatists, poets,
Has he ever played Skyrim?
>>342043475
He does kinda look like a butch lesbian.
I mean, not anymore. But he used to look like a butch lesbian.
>>342045443
>Yet for thousands of years we only have a few good books and sculptures.
Yea. And? Vidya has been trash 1/4 of a generation. I don't care about what lovely games come out when I'm in the ground. If it's trash now and trash then, it'll be trash to me and everyone else until it proves it ain't trash.
>>342045532
I'll bait, only to spit out instantly.
He made that statement in mid 90s, so go figure
>>342045443
We lost 99% of art created in ancient times. Just because you've never seen it that doesn't mean there is none.
Art is meant to challenge people and their beliefs.
Until video games stop being afraid of potentially offending people they can't be art. Simple as that.
>>342039330
Come on, give me a break
>>342039330
And now he's dead. Gamers - 1 Roger Ebert - 0
>>342043591
A buzzword. The real definition of culture, in science and anthropology, is basically human behaviour and expression. Video games are culture, even things like handshakes socks are culture. Some pretentious people try to redefine it for a small niche of creative things that give them the tummy feels, a subjective in-group that satisfied emotional needs for domination and respect for them from peers and those they look down on.
ayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy
>>342045787
>art is meant to challenge people and their beliefs
I get challenged everytime I see a straight-white-male as a protagonist. Fucking boring.
Therefore, games are art.
The merits of video games are only truly seen and appreciated by people who play them in a very dedicated manner because of how technical they are. You really have to put a lot of time into games to even understand what the hell you're doing, it's not something who has very little experience with the damn medium would understand.
>>342039330
>To my knowledge
And what knowledge does he have about games? What games has he played or even seen? Why should I care about his opinions on it?
>>342045740
Pic related came out in the mid '90s, funny enough.
>>342045951
>video game culture
I think we should apply the adjective of "debased" to it or degenerate. It's the first thing I think of when I think of gamers.
If he was so smart then why did he die?
>>342045364
I think it's a false dichotomy. Just look at Mad Max: Fury Road. That movie was something you might group alongside Transformers or TMNT at first glance, but in fact it was both stupidly-entertaining AND something that scratched the linings of finer art.
Whether or not it succeeded in either category is subjective, sure, but to a lot of people, it met both those expectations to a high-enough degree, which was something totally unexpected.
Fine art doesn't have to be boring, and entertaining art doesn't have to be stupid.
>>342046135
>2deep4u
>>342046260
And you are seriously expecting from a guy that for the record didn't play a video game till '04 to even know about existence of some Jap game that I only know because I'm a regular on /v/?
For him, when making that statement, vidya was about arcade games.
>>342046135
>>342045240
I think the thing that differentiates mediums is how they tell their stories. In games they're told through player interaction.
This might be an odd pull but an example that always comes to mind is Nights into dreams. Look at this clip:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sxdo7WBRUIM
You start off going to reach your friend as always but a mysterious white figure is implied to have forced you away from them. You're stranded on a floating chunk of road and all you can do is jump, presumably to your death. Yet you rise and for the first time in the game you're flying without the help of your friend you were separated from earlier.
It's a stupid kids game from 1996 but that scene can make you feel emotions through gameplay that wouldn't resonate the same way if it was just a cutscene. I know this for a fact because the sequel that came out in 2008 tried to do basically the same thing, almost entirely within cutscenes, and it fell completely flat.
>>342045958
What the fuck, the longer I look at this the more uncomfortable I get.
>>342046280
you have a very low world view of yourself anon,chin up, eh?
pretentious old fagit lol
>>342046286
He wasn't rich enough.
>>342039330
>That a game can aspire to artistic importance as a visual experience, I accept. But for most gamers, video games represent a loss of those precious hours we have available to make ourselves more cultured, civilized and empathetic.
Can't you say the same thing about movies and any other artistic medium that is also a billion dollar industry?
>>342046404
Quite literally is. You wouldn't expect someone who knows fuck all about music, filmmaking, or any other artform to be able to appreciate its technical aspects. That applies even more to video games because they are so abstract and focus so heavily on technical aspects.
Until games and gamers are willing to accept an interracial relationship between a black bull and a blonde swede, they will not be considered art.
>>342046842
But Sven is half-meranth and CM is a blonde murrican.
>define art
stumps them every time
I've always thought that I'd like to see a game with NO restart or do-over. If you die the game is over, and there are no checkpoints or bullshit like that. It would make the game a lot more tense and weighty.
Maybe something like that already exists but definitely not in a big-budget, multi-million dollar way.
>>342046632
>you have a very low world view of yourself anon,
Oh no, I just enjoy games with friends and come here to shitpost threads. To me this greater world of games seems to be concerned about what race and sexuality the guy on the cover is than any deeper ideal.
I'd watch a classic movie and read a classic book if I wanted to be engaged intellectually. I'll play a classic game if I want to just enjoy good gameplay. It's like lazy football.
>>342047153
Too experimental, wouldn't sell.
>>342046008
>>342045787
>Art has to be challenging
That's never been the definition of art, in fact a 'challenge' is closer to the definition of a *game*.
>>342047153
>Delete save
>???
>profit
Why do "gaymers" want their medium to be called art so much that they get triggered over people saying its not?
Because its not.
>Say obnoxious shit all day
>Lose your jaw
>Still continue to say obnoxious shit
>Die
And people say there isn't a God.
>>342047153
Arcade games are good at this if you're going for a 1cc or a high score. After hundreds of hours of practice, being near the end of a really good run is some of the most intense, exciting, soul crushing and rewarding shit you will ever feel in a single player game.
REMINDER
>people who think vidya is art
teenagers and numales
>people who th ink vidya isn't art
actual artists (film directors, musicians, painters, etc.)
GEE I WONDER WHO'S RIGHT
>>342047363
It could be espionage or something like that where you don't take fire very often, might befun
>>342039330
>picture of anon pissed about his wood carving of dragon next to some shitty paper mache dude trying to suck his own dick.jpg
>>342044438
B-BU-BWU-BWHAHAHAHAHHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHa
>>342047153
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=To_4odyFW6g
>>342047553
Because the people who say they're not tend to be incredibly pretentious and hypocritical while also knowing nothing about video games. That's about it, I'm just in it for the arguments with those types of faggots.
>>342047553
why are you allowed to live when you're this retarded?
>>342039330
"Video games are the future of art"
--David Hockney
>>342047693
>trusting the opinion of Jews, drug addicts and hobos
LOVING
EVERY
LAUGH
>>342047693
>people who think vidya is art
people who play video games
>people who think vidya isn't art
people who know nothing about video games
Wow incredible I wonder why
>>342047153
There are those "artsy" games from newgrounds.
I remember one of them was a Mario clone but you only had one life and the game kept a cookie on you computer so you couldn't just reload the page to get another try.
There was also that one game where you played a scientist and you had to choose between spending the last days of the apolypse with your family or finding a solution, whatever you chose the game would come to a halt after a certain point and you would get a cookie in you pc so you couldn't restart.If you chose to find a solution you do find it but die alone in a post-apocalyptic wasteland, the world regrows after a certain time but you don't live to see the effects of your actions.
>>342047882
Go back to spamming on Jimmy Kimmel's youtube video.
>MUH GAMES DON'T INSULT MUH GAMES
pathetic
>>342047148
>>342047421
Art is a transitory word that is defined by the generation that inherits it. To the Modernist, art is the product that challenges interpretations and standards. Virginia Woof and Joyce challenged artistic views in literature by experimenting with form and viewpoint. Artists such as Salvador Dali and Vincent van Gogh performed similar experiments but within the bounds of their medium. To them, art was experimental and challenging. The post-modernist takes this even further.
The question of what was art can be traced to many separate eras. the Victorian Age is where poets such as Tennyson and others began to experiment with form and question the purpose and value of art. This was the era of the industrial revolution and the advent of the photograph.
Going further back, we have Plato questioning just what kind of use the Artist was to his Republic. If all art is, is just the copying of objects already present in nature than what is art but the wasteful mechanical mastery of copying? I'm sure many a Renaissance painter scoffed at Plato's opinion.
These are the debates that revolve around the word "art". It is pretentious to say it can't be defined, but it is also foolish to force your own definition as the only definition. What art is is the question that every generation answers before completely trying to rewrite what art was.
>>342039330
>something that combines all forms of art
>can't be art
Okay retards.
>>342047735
Too experimental. What are you? A Dream-boy?
>>342039330
>inb4 someone posts that webm of his oral care with that brush
>>342044653
Yeah, they're another medium. No one is debating that. Grandpa loathed TV, whatever.
Doesn't change the fact he's still right, though. No games yet released rival the greats of every other medium.
>>342047153
You mean any permadeath game? Like roguelikes?
I heard that when he first played SotC his jaw hit the floor.
>>342044131
fuck off weev
>>342047175
>Oh no, I just enjoy games with friends and come here to shitpost threads.
This is why we cant call games out because of people like you
>>342048590
>>342048590
>No games yet released rival the greats of every other medium.
In what respects/criteria would games need to fulfill in order to rival the greats of every other medium?
>>342048831
Bioshock Infinite is art.
No seriously, it's the game that comes the closest to being the most artistically brilliant, intellectually challenging, and morally correct video game ever made.
>>342048590
What are the greats? Random things we've been memed by society to think is special compared to everything else.
>>342049103
Not be shit and be more intellectually profound than "what can change the nature of a man".
Basically anything you would've covered in those classes you ignored to get that Game Design degree because Engineering was too boring in your beady eyes.
>>342047693
>musicians
and what can musicians work for? a video game company?
well i guess as soon as their compositions come anywhere near video games it stops being art, great logic
>>342039330
Remember when art critics said movies would never be art? Really puts Ebert's quote in a different perspective.
>>342049396
>intellectually profound
That's not what makes a good game, you want video games to be judged by the standards of other mediums which is just plain retarded
>>342049103
Any degree of communication of aesthetics through an entirely exclusive semantic language would be a good place to start.
But no, video games are still stuck relying on other established mediums for any kind of expression.
>People actually thinking usage of design, music, storytelling, cinematics etc etc actually justify calling video games art
>>342049342
You'd have an easier time tying your asshole in a knot before you find me a game designer that fucks with the mechanical standards of the medium more than Ulysses fucks with the use and conveyance that the English language possesses.
Video games by definition are art. They are a creative piece of work, whether its good is up to the consumer.
I mean we see pieces of shit in exhibits all the time, somtimes just a white canvas from some hipster, and one will try to say some of the greatest games of all time dont outrank that?
>>342049735
>Video games by definition are art.
What definition is that?
>They are a creative piece of work
Wow that's totally not vague and entirely up to interpretation.
See:
>>342049679
>>342049547
>games can't be intellectually profound, but they can't be judged by that.
Look, I wouldn't trust my daughter to a man with profound autism. Doesn't mean he's a bad guy. It just means he ain't the best for her.
>>342039330
Video games are a young medium.
>>342049679
So level design?
>>342049735
>I mean we see pieces of shit in exhibits all the time, somtimes just a white canvas from some hipster, and one will try to say some of the greatest games of all time dont outrank that?
The whole point of that is to say that art doesn't exist in an objective sense and you should rather see beauty subjectively. In other words, stop sperging out that someone calls your medium trash.
>>342046525
This, pretty much.
>>342039330
It seems like he's using the wrong metrics; he compares them against the criteria of what makes a film good. Video games, being an interactive medium, should have different criteria for what qualifies them as "good". Those criteria have more to do with the way controls feeds the player's experience than what dialog they contain or how their cutscenes are framed.
>>342047693
Which is why musicians occasionally steal samples from videogame soundtracks, right?
>>342049705
So if an example of a medium is able to break mechanical standards set up by others within the medium, then it would be considered art?
>>342049897
>Wow that's totally not vague and entirely up to interpretation.
The definition of art IS vague and entirely up to interpretation.
>>342039330
Why does the video game industry have such an overwhelming little brother complex towards film? I wonder if filmmakers felt the same way towards theater back in the day.
That said, a movie critic has significantly less credibility when trying to criticize anything outside of its own art form.
>>342039330
http://www.rogerebert.com/reviews/star-wars-episode-iii-revenge-of-the-sith-2005
im glad you're dead you worthless shill
>>342049679
Games do it through their game design. Their battle systems, level design, ai, and so on.
>>342049994
>Video games are a young medium.
>>342049138
The first major choice that players of BioShock Infinite are presented with is whether they would like to publicly punish an interracial couple or not. You may choose to throw a ball at the couple, who are tied up in front of a crowd at a fair, or you may choose to throw the ball at the man who is asking you to do so. The outcome of your choice is mostly the same.
Let’s think about that for a moment. BioShock Infinite, the game that many would hope to point to as an example of how art and subtlety might be found in expensive, mainstream videogames, sets up its moral stakes by asking the player if they would like to be a violent bigot.
These are the complex and difficult decisions found in videogames in 2013: would you like to be in the Ku Kux Klan or would you like to be Abraham Lincoln? Would you like to join the Nazi party or found the United Nations? Would you like to be for or against?
Do you see the nuance here? Do you see the art?
>>342049705
That's such a vague statement that any poorly made video game fits the bill perfectly
>>342050415
Is this supposed to be purposefully vague?
>>342050420
>meaningless choices prevent it from being art.
What matters is that you thought about the choice.
>>342050390
Funny you say that. Early films imitated theatre in their presentation and stories before they started to do their own thing later on.
>>342039330
Pathologic
>>342049705
So Hideo Kojima.
>>342050409
How?
Full semiotic analysis please.
>>342050415
source?
>>342047693
None of those artist are worth shit though
You faggots are so assblasted by my comments on vidya games.
>>342050718
Level design is specifically meant to provoke certain emotional reactions from the player through communication. Levels even have their own narrative structure
>>342050924
At least I can be assblasted over anything at all. It's hard to do that when you're dead.
>>342050529
>purposefully vague.
It looks like art to me. It's a discussion of how Ebert's ancient opinion from the 90s still pisses off gamers today. The Tan Lines Brighter Than the Sun imply that that opinion will forever define Mr. Ebert in the eyes of gamers. The "It's melting already" conveys the wish for gamers to have society's judgment of them melt away and while it's debatable, Gamers always maintain that it will happen. Thus the optimistic tone. The figure of Ebert implies dominance while the feminine form implies the desire for gamers to have a highly regarded critic of their own to judge their profound medium. The boy there appears to represent gamers. His cold sweat his doubt of whether the medium is on the edge of a Golden Age or if it's fading into meaningless destruction. His age could be a commentary on society's regard for games being toys and gamers being boy-children. A sort of criticism that society only sees gamers as "white males" who are always seeking the feminine form despite being "boys", or in layman's terms "man-children".
>>342050718
Here's an example with one particular game. He does a better job articulating stuff like this than I ever will.
https://youtu.be/b5v7NLT5fS0
>>342051236
Kudos to you
>>342050761
>sauce
It's sadpanda. You type in ss, and then you stuff a dildo in your ass before calling yourself a faggot. It takes you right there.Agata
>>342050420
>about to call out this Anon for using one of the shallowest games in recent years as a representation for the potential of morality in videogames
>see the post he's replying to.
You... you keep doing your thing Anon.
Even Fallout 4 raises more important questions than Bioshock Infinite does.
Video games are porn: enjoyable, but transient.
>>342051720
Porn can be art, though.
>>342039330
if he's so fucking smart, why is he dead? take that, faggot.
>>342049679
>entirely exclusive semantic language
can you chill the rhetoric a bit and talk in a transparent way
wew lad
>>342039330
>That a game can aspire to artistic importance as a visual experience, I accept
That a game offers deeper experience than the visual, he could never understand.
>>342039330
You cannot objectively prove anything to be "art" or "not art". Worrying about Ebert's opinion (that's all it is) makes you a self-doubting, likely autistic teenager.
>>342039330
I dunno, i dont wanna sound like a normie, but i think that Halo1-3 are considerable for art, they looked beautiful for the time, and the story was pretty good, i remember crying at halo 3
also waiting all those years to find out what happens made me a dedicated fan, but also anything after 3 is shit
>>342044653
Back in cowboy times, when kids would work on the farm, it was considered NEETlike to 'have your nose in books all the time'
like imagine that, books were the thing that losers did to escape from their shitty world
>>342050585
>do you want to be bad or good
FUCK, THE QUESTIONS RAISED BY THIS
>>342052656
> i remember crying at halo 3
hehehe faggot.
>>342052656
Halo might have be synomymous with prepubescent boys teabagging one another, but it's made by Bungie, and they have a history of making games with involved stories.
See Marathon
>>342052657
Did you think before you made the choice. That's art.
>>342051631
Fallout 4 is shit, ripped my fucking heart out man, i planned to put 600 hours into that game and its so shitty
"shoot everything"
"no talking just shoot"
"no stats no rpg elements, just shoot"
>>342039701
He was never right. He knew nothing about video games, and didn't care about them. He was a MOVIE critic, that was his specialty.
t. guy who's read On the Genealogy of Art Games.
>>342040056
>>>/tv/
Great job actually believing their shitty memes.
>>342052864
I think before I make every choice in every game though, even mundane choices like "Do I want to bother farming that enemy"
If any thought directed at a game makes it art, then the highest art must be in competitive RTS.
Cosmology of Kyoto was the shit though
>>342052656
kys
>>342039330
All video games are art, as are all other media. However, most art sucks
>>342040807
Art is glorification
You think christianity would be as popular if st peters basilica was a hut made out of cow shit ( and so on)?
>>342052997
The best competitive games are the high art of video games yeah
>>342053259
If we are going by "Thoughts per second" then competitive games are probably the highest form of art currently made by man.
>>342052901
>read a biased book
>suddenly an expert
>>342039330
Old ways for old people
>>342053354
Maybe have to huff some paint first before I agree with that.
>>342045364
I'm just going to take your stance on the issue.
>>342052997
I like Dantes Inferno, me and my friend played it together while on a cocaine, weed, and salvia binge, and the drugs made us feel like we actually were absolving people, or sending them to hell
I remember when we would find certain characters, like Judas Iscariot, and we would talk for like 45 minutes about whether we should send them to heaven and absolve them of their sins, or send them to hell
It really changed us, like a few times we sent people to hell to upgrade our demon powers, and we felt really bad about it, I think by the end of the game we were trying to absolve most people, but the ones who were really bad
For Judas I remember thinking how terrible a person must feel for all eternity, i forget what we did, but it took us longer than anyone else to decide what to do with the man the turned in Jesus.
Ebert was an old white man. Nobody should care about his opinions.
>>342053495
Hint: Divine powers are the only worthwhile ones, the cross spam will carry you through the entire game easily
>>342050420
>sets up its moral stakes by asking the player if they would like to be a violent bigot.
but that's not the case at all, throwing the ball at the degenerates would be to cover up the fact that you don't belong, not because the player's character actually perceives anything wrong with the degeneracy
>>342053072
Indeed it was.
I'm just going to put this here. Make of it what you will
>>342040056
The notion of "pop culture" is rather a Nazi enforced system of classic caste pecking order "my dick is bigger" biggotry meant to brainwash "the lower castes" into easier manipulation to "the higher castes".
The fact that a lot of shit on TV these days are nothing but bullshit FBI police propaganda, edgedark terror scenario dramas and The Voice says much in return for what TV has to offer.
>>342053580
Does that mean we should care about the opinions of niggers like you?
>>342053663
And hilariously, you can't do either because you get arrested before you can actually carry out your actions.
>>342053580
>simultaneously being racist, sexist, and ageist
Well done. You've effectively attacked categories that the person falls under without addressing anything of substance.
>>342045376
What the fuck is the point of a critic just feeding back joe sixpacks opinion to him? If we wanted to know wed fucking ask him, wouldnt we? The critic tells us his opinion, and if we like his taste or reasoning we listen to and employ him.
>>342039330
It's almost like a man who thought The Phantom Menace was a great movie shouldn't be taken seriously when it comes to art and entertainment.
>>342053807
What other choices are there in the game? It's been a while so I don't remember, but it might actually tie into the idea of variables and constants mentioned latter in the game, or it might just be a suggestion that regardless of the free will of man, shit happens.
>>342048289
That is true, over one thing that seems consistent is practically every generation consider art as some sort of transcendental concept we should aspire towards. Except Plato apparently, I thought I think he was being intentionally provocative about the value of art ragther then try to be dismissing towards it.
>>342049735
Well I agree with your sentiment I don't know if 'creative piece of work' is a very satisfactory definition. It's too broad to be applicable.
A mousetrap or any other household item is a 'creative piece of work' in the literal sense in that someone had to have create it, but is intended to be purely functional in design and purpose.
I've always liked Oscar Wilde's statement 'that all art is useless' myself. Art is a creative piece of work that intended purpose is simply that of it's beauty.
>>342053889
>>342053797
Maybe if you were willing to actually view things from another angle instead of accepting someone's opinion as golden because they're white, old, and gender-identifying as heterosexual male- you'd be a degree more cultured.
how can games not be considered art if they have visuals (paintings), audio (music), and actors (like movies).
you basically can stick all the other artful mediums into a game.
I actually like video game music better than the shit on the radio, or any other music for that matter.
>>342047752
The dicksuck statue was more well done than anons autistic half-finished dismembered dragon limb and probably less pretentious as well
>>342053890
That's the problem. Criterion is the basis which forms the perspective and overall sway of what a critic will decide his judgment on.
Ebert was nothing but an oldfag blob of a movie critic who did nothing but prove his criterion was nothing more than pushing his college bachelors degree into everyone's faces in the mid 1900s. Even as an author he wrote "Your Movie Sucks" and made up a test solely to pass on his shit opinion as standard to future generations. ie he was a hack who successfully infiltrated the system and forced everyone to view the world like he did. Almost everyone.
>>342054219
>Except Plato apparently, I thought I think he was being intentionally provocative about the value of art ragther then try to be dismissing towards it.
Quite the opposite, but not wrong. The Republic is his personal thought experiment on the ideal republic. That's one with all the poets thrown out. It wasn't a provocative strike on art for trolling but more as a thorough examination of what art is and where it stands in the cosmos of mankind. The line of argument is where Plato tries to define the useful artist over the trivial one. The idea being that the artist who paints a chair is intrinsically less valuable than the one who makes it.
>>342054354
If I have a painting hung up on my wall, a bookshelf and some music records, is my room art?
>>342053375
Only god can be impartial
>>342054804
Depends if they're purposefully arranged.
>>342044438
Art is nothing but the consequence of its medium. The medium itself affects more change than anything produced by it.
>>342055008
>implying there's a god
Videogames are a whole new beast the old show business has to deal with now.
I don't think we need the approval or praise of "critics" right now. Just let the videogame industry crash and return to 2005. Pump out another Silent hill 2, another shadow of the colossus, keep evolving the medium and letting it mature. I do believe videogames will eventually grow into a fully accepted form or art.
>>342055236
God exists outside the universe, i.e outside the set of things that exist
>>342055476
Prove it you Christian cuck.
>>342039330
>muh superior culture
>muh great dramatists and poets
These people have no understanding of what culture means. What is this, the XVI century?
>>342055425
>video games
>crashing again
>now that they make more money than any other medium
>>342054110
you can choose the bird or the cage, neither matters
>>342045376
>>342053890
>>342054527
>>342045376
This is the difference between games as a form of entertainment and games as a product. It really depends if you see the reviewer's role to provide a informed customer guide or not.
When people pick up a movie review they going knowing that they just looking for that critic's opinion on the matter. Then a vocally disagree with that but the fact it's a subjective opinion isn't really up for debate.
Games however are just as much consumer products as they are art. They're sold and brought along certain objective technical standards. In the same way a motorbike or car would be.
So just as you wouldn't trust someone who can't drive what their professional opinion on a car is, you shouldn't trust someone who can't play games what his opinion of the new Doom is.
>>342056319
You wouldnt trust a critic who has no fucking experience in his field, no shit
I wouldnt trust a book reviwer who didnt know what italics were either because its a sign they dont read much
>>342056319
You wouldn't trust an illiterate person's opinion on a book, or a deaf person's opinion on music.
Artists are too autistic to settle into a proper definition of art out of fear of being held to some sort of standard.
>>342056814
Ebert is a hack so why should we care what he says?
>>342039330
This old faggot died of cancer and deserved it.
>>342056925
I wouldn't trust a dude's cinema opinion if his favorite movie was Transformers.
>>342039330
Fallout New Vegas
>>342047153
Hitman did it with Elusive targets. Kinda
You have limited time, usually 48 hours or so, to kill 1 target.
If you die, it's over
if you kill him, get to the exit, and it's over
You can restart (if it doesn't break the previous rules) if you're a scumming bitch and missing the point completely. Guess it's for people with shit connection to not get denied.
>>342049138
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l_u18_BKczg
>>342049679
>>People actually thinking usage of design, music, storytelling, cinematics etc etc actually justify calling video games art
Movies have music, tell a story, are directed in a certain way.
Are they not art, then?
>putting the justification of "art" on the players
>implying the effort and coordination required to make a coherent game isn't in itself an artistic endeavor
>>342044702
god punished ebert for his hubris by taking away his blasphemy organ
>>342039330
art more like fart
ICO and SotC
those and those two only
>>342044653
There's a difference between a video game and an interactive simulation.
>>342039330
And oh boy, how many hours I've wasted.
Earthbound is still incredible, however.
Name one game as good as https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oVOTx4Lx3pY, video games just can't provide the level of emotion and intellect that true art forms like kino can
>>342060738
i think the real problem is the fact that publishers and devs really must cater to the lowest common denominator. with voice acting -- no matter how "serious" they try to get with it -- almost always ends up sounding cheesy and something of a novelty
>>342059813
> Interactive simulations
Simulation have been the cornerstone of their medium.
But that a dig at walking simulators like Dear Ester or Gone Home and the like?
>>342061050
I think that's mostly because video game writers are shit. The voice actors being shit is a problem too, but that's secondary to shit writing. It's impossible to act well when you're reading off garbage.
>>342039330
>created by one guy
>art and cannot critic
>created by a bunch of people
>fuck this shit sucks
That is how people value art, if you think game is art then please do keep buying meme games like undertale or spooky walking sim where you don't fight back because of psychological reasons.
>>342061643
I think that's more of a case of too many cooks spoil the broth.
I mean James Cameron is a respected film director but no one expects him to built the giant set himself by hand or play the role is as both Leonardo and Kate Winslet.
But hell Tintsnic is hardly considered 'fine art', or a even a good movie. So maybe you have a point.
>>342053375
I've read way more than just that book. You couldn't get through that one properly without having done so anyway.
>>342055236
What was implied is that impartiality is impossible.
>>342062614
I appreciate you get my point.
Basically both cant be compared, if one insist of comparing them then there is "games" that cater to these whiny babies that screams art on everything.
But these art games are not the "game" they claimed they are, heck most hardly qualifies as game.
>>342044653
this
Thread should have ended here.
Whenever someone wants to dismiss a medium as "not art" the easiest way to do so is to target the consumer instead of the creator. This is usually done by pointing out that the person that consumes the media only does so passively and for enjoyment. By saying this you can come to the conclusion that the medium is not in fact art because it doesn't promote "higher thinking."
Likewise if you want to venerate a medium as art you appeal to the creator, citing "the greats" of the respective medium as proof that it's an art.
This is exactly what Ebert does in his statement. "Great dramatists, poets, filmmakers, and composers" vs "But for most gamers .... Loss of precious hours"
People have done the same thing whenever a new medium forms; Radio, film, modern music, etc all dismissed with a simple "but they aren't thinking!"
>>342061050
You don't know what you're talking about. Art created in order to appease someone or some group of people doesn't change the fact that it's art.
>>342054804
your room contains art.
just like it would contain art if you had video games in there.
>>342064821
i'm not saying it isn't art. the process of making a game alone makes it art. it's just not fine art, and i don't think it will ever reach the point of "fine art" with the way the (western) industry is going
>>342051596
What's the hentai itself?
>>342052656
>i remember crying at halo 3
