Why do people constantly praise this. I recently bought it for quite a low price on Steam and it's quite boring. The stealth is retarded because guards should be able to see me when I'm standing right next to them but because i'm standing in this tiny shadow I'm OK, and exploring giant rooms that are all bland looking for random shit to steal is boring. The voice acting is horrible and the default controls to move are horrible. whenever people talk about stealth implementation into games they always point to this as an example of how to do it right and I want to know exactly why, am I just a normie with no taste or is it actually garbage ?
>am I just a normie with no taste
Yes.
>>341742810
>Not an argument
>>341742981
I know this perfectly well.
eh 2/10, could use a bit more work
>>341742719
Lol you fell for the meme
>>341742981
you are a normie with no taste
thief is great
is this supposed to be genuine thread or cheap bait thread to get people to talk about thief?
>>341742719
>didnt download the mod
>>341743908
you mean tfix/tafferpatcher?
turn up the difficulty
>>341742719
Saying the stealth is bad in Thief is like saying the makeup and camera-work in Citizen Kane is bad. They're revolutionary because they were the first to do it that particular way, and spawned a movement in the industry.
>>341742719
Thief 1 > Thief 2
That is my personal opinion.
>>341742719
Leaving aside that all your points are stupid except the voice acting being bad, can you even name a game that did it better?
Thief 1 and 2 are pretty good games, but they get extremely over rated around these parts like they're some sort of holy grail that cannot be touched.
Dishonored is a game I enjoyed as much as Thief 2 and more than Thief 1, but people like pretending that they're in a different tier altogether.
>>341744741
Thief doesn't deserve to be trolled. It had enough abuse already with Thi4f.
>>341744647
Not OP, but MGSV has the best stealth mechanics to date.
I love the Thief games but MGSV is on a whole other level regarding stealth/gameplay.
>>341744647
Skyrim with mods does fucking stealth better than this piece of trash called a game. Hell even without mods
>>341744550
I loved the paranormal missions
anyone hating on Thief 1 and 2 and even Deadly Shadows needs to go. Stop punishing us, we already got the worst reboot/sequel in gaming history.
>ive been a ghost my whole life
>>341745005
this
Bait thread
sage
>>341745127
hahahahahahahahahahhaaha
>>341742719
i think these are far by the most mediocre pc games ive played out of all the old critically acclaimed ones. i think the level design is complete shit for most of the game. they really took the worst aspects of doom and build games and expanded upon them. complete with more item fetching and levels being mazes. i honestly spent more time standing still not playing the game waiting for enemies to pass than actually playing the game.
>>341745526
bohooo you had to use
>STEALTH
to get around PATROLS?
>>341745720
ummm, *raises paw* shy shouldn't I be able to press X for an instant takedown when I'm looking at a guard? please don't bully this little kitty for saying this but it's kind of boring when most of the time playing the game, you're not actually playing, don'tcha think? :p
>>341745294
Fuck off. Deadly Shadows is terrible and I will hate on it all I want. It's a piece of shit and indefensible.
>>341746349
It has a good story and a good conclusion.
>>341746056
Yes.
>>341746995
Now this looks like a much better game. it's not just boring sitting around :p
>>341746995
I feels quite similar to OP.
Thief is a good game, but I can't help but feel like it's outdated due to the blind guards and due to a million other stealth games copying it.
>>341742719
Your points are all retarded but most importantly complaining about the default controls makes no sense. I don't remember what they are but the controls are fully customizable so what is the problem? The only complaint I have with the controls is that lean forward should have an alternate input when you press lean left and lean right at the same time.
>>341745010
MGSV has terrible sound design and annoying movement mechanics. It's pretty much incapable of good indoor environments and the effects of shadows are unclear.
Say what you want about Thief's shadows but at least there is no ambiguity. You always know exactly how much light you're in and how it affects the game. In MGSV, enemy vision distance is affected by time of day but with no way of knowing exactly to what extent and shadows don't seem to play a role at all.
I love thief, but I see where OP is coming from.
The game aged badly.
Nonetheless, you have to understand why these neckbeards franticly defend the game:
- barebones HUD, map and hints/tips for each map
- the map designs are almost perfect, with a ton of options, explorable areas, interesting situations, and secrets
- The AI is trash, deal with it everyone
- The story is interesting, especially if you go through all three games
Basicly:
- the game is lush with details, it is something to be experienced, the gameplay is just perfect for people that want a great stealth game, the shitty AI doesn't ruin the stealth, the stealth comes from the options it gives you, the floortile differences, the gear it gives you, and the explorable areas, and story behind each mission
Enjoy the immersion and gameplay.
>>341748135
>The game aged badly.
You say that and on some level I guess I agree but I never played it when it came out and for me personally Thief 1 was one of the easiest old games to get into. The atmosphere and level design do wonders imo.
>there are people on this board who don't like to sneak around giant mansions and creep past guards because you're a tiny weak thief.
If you want way points and unstoppable killing machines, go play dishonored.because they both are really good games for different reasons
I can agree that Thief aged badly but I still love it for its immersion and atmosphere. It's really rare to get a game like this when you can feel the world around you and that is the best thing about it.
>>341748489
Good point, but I meant the AI and visuals.
Thief 1/2 still has the most comfortable movement ever. Thief 3 severely lacked this.
https://youtu.be/jPqwDGXxLhU
>>341745010
Not really. Leaving aside mother base, combat being op, weapon upgrades, and bad level design it was still was a great game, however there are so many problems crippling it that you can't even fully salvage it by refusing to use the broken systems.
Fulton renders hiding bodies a thing of the past since you just drag them out of the way and poof they're gone. Weapon upgrades make combat way too viable, even for pacifist runs since you can get shit like a nonlethal AR or an infinite silencer. Ddog and quiet mark everything for you automatically.
You can avoid all those things by just going into every mission naked. What you can't avoid is how the game is designed around you not doing that. Money is imba if you aren't buying rocket launchers and shit so you basically have infinite stealth tools. You also can't find anything like decoys or silencers in the environment because they expect you to go into a menu and make everything you need fall from the sky. The levels all suck too.
>>341748135
>>341748768
The AI isn't bad at all, it's just designed for exaggerated stealth gameplay. It's actually really advanced even by today's standards with multiple viewcones to simulate focused and peripheral vision, a complex system of awareness so that guards react intelligently when presented with multiple stimuli, like if they see movement in one direction and hear noise from another, varying degrees of alertness instead of a typical binary or ternary system, all sorts of cool shit.
Yeah, some things are unrealistic. Shadows can pretty much make you invisible and grass and rugs inaudible, but complaining about that is like complaining that explosions don't do enough damage to the player or from far enough away in Quake. It's like that by design for fun and balanced gameplay.
I'd even argue that the graphics help the game in that respect. The guards in Thief look, sound, and behave like caricatures. It's easy to suspend your disbelief when you see them behaving stupidly than it is in a modern game where nearly photo-realistic NPCs are behaving just as dumb, if not dumber.
>>341750502
Being able to go nigh-invisible in shadows is apart of the lore, anyhow. Garrett isn't your average thief, he is Keeper who had defected. Their whole gimmick is their improbable stealth.
>>341748950
>Posting a YouTube video instead of writing out your own opinion because you're a 13 year old that can't think for himself and you get all your ideas from strangers online.
>>341746537
>Excusing Thief 3 for its fucking story
Never post again
>>341751561
And what's wrong with it exactly? The first Thief is the story of Pagans, the sequel concentrates on The Order of the Hammer and the third and final game is about the turmoil within the ranks of The Keepers. It's well told storywise and the ending is a perfect send off for Garrett.
If you want to fix the gameplay just download mods to fix the movement or the ui. There's even one which connects all the maps into one so you're not interrupted with loading times.
>>341752542
>fix the gameplay with mods :^)
>>341753089
Cool greentexting.
This is the fucking same as carmageddon or crysis.
Carmageddon 2 (2000 game) got surpased only by dirt rally in 2007 in the destruction physics. 7 years to just replicate something...
Crysis still has the crown not because of muh graphics, but muh physics, the new battlefront looks better, but there are almost no physics in that game.
The same is with the thief series
The tech they used for how the AI reacts to stuff or interact with other characters, or how the sound propagates depending of where you walk over, but also where you are, how the room absorb or reberb your steps or noises.
Not even splinter cell had that sound technology, wich also was a hardcore stealth game.
the ONLY good thing that metal gear brough was the "what footprints are this?"
People will judge the game because of the graphics or how "not modern" it is.
Mostly kids with low attention span, and also no patience.
And still to fucking casual to even try to do a swordmaster run.
>>341754532
Wait, you're bringing up Carmageddon 2 of all things as an example? I've never heard anyone bring up that game before and praising its destruction physics. What about Destruction Derby? That game was made for this shit.
>>341755170
Destruction derby car physics are very similar to the physics in twisted metal 2 or RAC rally, not even similar to carmageddon 1.
Its very hard to explain, but the collision physics are way more simple, the only game i can came up as example is gran turismo 4, look how in that game, you cant do donuts, or you cant roll the car, no matter what you do, that is canned physics, then look how they show cars flying and shit in gt5, thats the difference between the physics engines.
Even need for speed 2 had this kind of physics, but they manage to make the car able to roll, but the rest of the concept is the same, in this simple physics, the collision box is a big.. box, and nothing more, when the lower face of that box is facing the ground, then the car moves like a car, if the aligment is not good enoug, the car wont move despite having wheels touching the ground.
In carma 1, wheels had its own separated colision, because of suspension heigh differences and also how the chassis of the car, you could smash the car into a little tiny piece of shit, but the wheels will keep in the same position, and when the wheels touch anything, it will apply force to move, thats how you run over cars or do the wallruns.
The most simple way to notice this is.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jcHdBtNSvhg
Look how the entire car is like bouncing on a ball and like floating.
now
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QH2C9TqkfiU
Look how the game has separated models for each part, wheels and chassis, and how rely totally on physics to do the job.
Now, back to the point.
Do you think OP ever thought or noticed something like this regarding stealth mechanics and how the AI operates?
>>341742981
He answered a simple question, not everything has to be an argument you meming fuck.
styx is better anyway
>>341750502
Well, just compare it to Thief 3. The guards noticed opened doors, windows, lights that have been put out, missing comrades. I agree with you on the most part, but it's not advanced considering today's standards.
>>341756985
I enjoyed Styx, but a lot of the gear/abilities you get are almost useless. They're not even good for exploring areas for fun. You can get through most of the game with a mouse and WASD+space+crouchor whatever the sneaking button was, I forget.
The clones were a necessity from time to time, but everything else felt tacked on. Anyone else on this subject matter?
>>341757121
Being advanced tech proves nothing, there are and there allways were "tech" to use.
Remember that procedual tesselated alium?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1c_PVtMIz-A
Do you see that tech being used?
its not advanced... but if they impement such stuff, it will be like playing the modern equivalent of soldier of fortune 2.
Thats another example of how everything went to shit, SoF2 had one fo the most detailed body physics i ever saw.
Now, look at any other game, the closest was dead island, and it was lightyears more simple.
This proves that they have the tools to make everything, but devs and studios because of money and shit they decide to not implement this tech.
>kojima on ground zeroes AI
"the AI was too smart, so we decided to make it not that smart, because our playtesters failed over and over and over and over again"
>instead of leaving that one for extreme or some brutal difficulty and gas all his playtesters for casualfucks
>>341756710
I didn't expect such a detail explanation, but thanks. It's an interesting read and I don't have anything to add.
>>341742719
I played Thief 2 for the first time a week ago. Even though it looks like ass it still blew me away.
>the mechanics are clear and you always have a good idea of visibility.
>guards actually take realistic patrol routes where they can end up coming behind you and surprising you rather than just walking from one side of a tiny room to another
>sound design is top notch and I immediately got what everyone was raving about
>sick level design
The sad thing is that if you just updated the graphics on this game it would basically still be the state of the art in stealth games 16 years later
Can't comment on Thief 1. Are you it's not Thief 2 that you hear all the praise for?
>>341742719
>am I just a normie with no taste
This is an extremely high possibility.
>The stealth is retarded because guards should be able to see me when I'm standing right next to them but because i'm standing in this tiny shadow I'm OK
Honestly, that IS a bit dumb, it always has been. I still have fun with it though.
>and exploring giant rooms that are all bland looking for random shit to steal is boring
Here's where your taste starts showing. Thief doesn't have the most amazing environments in video games, but the music, the atmosphere, and the gameplay should make you not even care. Really, the atmosphere is fantastic. From the ambient music and noises, to the sound of footsteps nearing the corner while you're trying to quickly pick a lock and get out of sight, to the Hammer Haunt's "Joins usss... Join usss.... JOIN US NOW!", to the little notes you find in the levels, it all makes for fantastic atmosphere. Levels like The Sword and Song of the Caverns really exemplify this.
The fun of the gameplay comes fro successfully managing to loot places, get around obstacles, figure out your own way through a place, etc. Shooting a rope arrow into a beam and sneaking in through the second floor window is so much more satisfying than walking through the front gate.
The default controls are fine for the most part, I only change a bit, but still, you CAN change them, so this shouldn't be an issue.
>The voice acting is horrible
I hope you're not implying Garrett is horrible. And I know you haven't gotten that far yet, but Constantine and Victoria are both great as well.
>>341742719
>am I just a normie with no taste
Maybe. This might sound retarded, but you have to actually enjoy a certain type of stealth a lot to appreciate the early Thief games.
It's not like every stealth game in the last 10 years where there's always some viable 'choose your own approach' combat system
>>341758125
Remember this shit?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3bKphYfUk-M
i love thief 1* and 2 but any encounter with enemies is ridiculously trivial unless you intentionally play badly. are there any mods that alleviate this? like, you can flat out bunny hop past every single thing in thief 1 and in both games you can circle strafe the AI and win any fight, or even just power swing and back up and repeat and never get hit. i read that the blackjack's 1 hit KO is supposed to be limited to unaware enemies hit in the back but it works on aware guard's faces 1/3 of the time and i don't know why or even want it to.
* except for the burping dinosaur segments. what were they thinking?
>>341756985
Styx has a retarded plot and shit world building and atmosphere so no
>The voice acting is horrible
Ah, no
>>341759710
>The sad thing is that if you just updated the graphics on this game it would basically still be the state of the art in stealth games 16 years later
It's kind of weird that you're right. Thief 1 and 2 were wayyy of ahead of their time - They're still games I would considered highly advanced.
>>341742719
>The stealth is retarded because guards should be able to see me when I'm standing right next to them
Keeper magic. Did you not pay any attention at all?
>>341761846
yea, it still hurts.
