Is Ganondorf the best villain in videogames?
His death literally destroyed the game.
If gerudo are all female,how was he born?
>>341724358
Gerudo women kidnap hylians to have sex. Did you even play OoT?
>>341724398
A very long time ago
>>341723980
He's the hottest, so yes.
>He's not a generic power-hungry warlord! He wants the wind! SO DEEP!
>>341723980
That's not eggman.
>>341723980
>I AM EVIL BECAUSE I WANT TO BE POWERFUL AND RULE EVERYTHING AND I DON'T CARE WHO GETS IN MY WAY, MUHAHAHAHAHA
He's literally a fucking saturday morning cartoon villain.
He's arguably one of the worst villains in video games.
>>341725130
what's funny is, in Ocarina we SAW what happened when Ganon took over.
Same with what he ends up doing to the Golden Land in LttP.
Which makes WW Ganon full of shit, or batshit crazy, which makes me like him even more
>>341724219
>literally destroyed the game
>when Arthus died all the WoW servers crashed and every server and disk violently exploded
He's not even the best zelda villain desu
>>341725371
>He's arguably one of the worst villains in video games.
I'll take him over bad guys like pic related
>>341725371
Not really how villains are measured though. It's iconic, so it's a good villain. Motive is only part of it.
I can't actually think of a villain with a good motive that is also iconic.
>>341725371
'depth' and 'motivation' doesn't entirely make the villain, sometimes a cool design and personality is enough. I for one like the fact that OoT Ganon is a complete dickhead who dismisses and underestimates Link all the way up until the final confrontation.
>>341725371
The way you've described him makes him sound like DIO, and if you don't think he's a good villain then you have no taste
>>341723980
>stands around does nothing waiting for link
>>341725729
This.
Darth Vader was a good villlain, until we learned about his motivation.
>>341725729
It makes perfect sense when he has never fought a hero before that point.
>>341725825
He just wants to chill and play organ.
>>341723980
fuck no.
He's cool.
>>341725729
motivation is literally the basis of a good Villian you child.
Do you not know anything about storytelling?
>>341726229
>Expecting nintoddlers to know anything or care about storytelling
>>341726229
You're saying a good villain can't just be entertaining?
>>341726347
>>341726229
>caring about the villain's motivation in a game where the objective is "collect x amount of sparkly things and kill the bad man in the castle"
>>341726229
Why can't a villain just be akin to a force of nature that wrecks everything in its path, and you have to stop it? Why do they need a 'deep' backstory to justify their actions?
Do you not know anything about storytelling?
>>341726376
Entertaining is not the same thing as good.
Good implies a well-written and well-crafted character.
You don't need to have that if you just want to entertain. That doesn't make him bad either, just nothing impressive.
His design is cool though.
Hades from Kid Icarus: Uprising is more entertaining though.
>>341726182
that pic makes me want a solo ganondorf game with kaiju style ganon segments
>>341725396
WW Ganon failed to conquer Hyrule and so he never realized his ambitions. As the world flooded and he had (a) century(ies) to reflect on his actions, naturally he'd convince himself he was trying to do right by his people. And you know, maybe originally he was? But his triforce is power, and power corrupts. To grow up how he did, his world view must be extremely twisted. I know if I had to grow up surrounded by nothing but women I'd go insane too.
>>341723980
No
>>341726615
Good implies entertaining and iconic
Great implies that plus a good motive.
The bar you have set for yourself puts almost every willain ever written below good. That's how you know you're wrong. You don't need to have intellectually challenging motives at play to have a good villain. You might to get a great villain.
Ganon, as the original giant pig monster, has been a relevant and pervasive presence in only a handful of Zelda games. And Ganondorf for half that.
He was fine when introduced in OoT as an egotistical Gerudo asshole who rose to power. He had menace. Wasn't the best thing ever, but he was fine. He was also fine in WW when they gave him a sad backstory and tried to humanize him. He also had his own boss fight where he didn't hulk out into the pig monster form.
>>341727082
he went pigmode in WW though, that was just an abstract incarnation of it.
The last Zelda game I remember playing were the Oracle games for the GBC. I've played the original NES titles, Awakening, and WW.
I have no idea what the modern games are like.
So is like... Ganondorf Ganon's mortal incarnation, like Link and Zelda are? Do we even talk about old god Ganon or does he ever show up again?
>>341723980
He's one of the most stylish.
>>341725808
DIO is by far the worst Dio.
>>341727161
Yeah, such a crazy abstraction that it just looked like his usual human form with two swords.
>>341727392
In Skyward Sword (which takes place at the very start of the timeline),you fight the Hyrule equivalent of Satan called Demise. When he is finally defeated, he 'creates' Ganon/Ganondorf with his last breath, as an 'incarnation of his hatred'. Ganondorf and Ganon are one and the same, but it's implied that he loses the humanoid form as time goes on, seeing as LttP and Zelda 1 are set far ahead in the timeline and only showcase pig Ganon.
yes.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L9x9zTyN1QU
>>341727475
Did you forget about the giant pig puppet monster, or...?
I need something clarifying which has confused me since I was 7 years old.
In LttP, is Aghanim actually Ganon, or just a lackey? If it's the former, isn't he basically Ganondorf? He even sorta looks like him.
>>341727664
Because controlling a giant evil marionette is the same as being it.
>Superior strategist, uses his wits to infiltrate Hyrule and attain the Triforce
>The greatest magician in the world, capable of curses strong enough to kill guardians
>On top of this also a big guy, easily the most physically powerful human alive
As far as villains go, Ganondorf is actually broken as fuck.
>>341727839
introduced as a lackey, revealed to be alter ego. More than likely was re-developed into Ganondorf.
>>341727839
Lackey, like Shaft in Castlevania. The comic goes into detail. Remember that Ganon was 100% pig before OOT, he never looked human.
>>341727853
He literally transforms into it in a cutscene anon.
>>341727839
The lore wasn't as developed back then but basically in LttP Ganon can shapeshift, he transforms into Agahnim who then transforms into a bat, crashes into the pyramid where you then fight him in 'true' pig form.
>>341724358
Gerudo kidnap Hylian men to breed with them. Why they'd want you to rescue them is beyond me, but they still only birth females. Every 100 years, however, a male is born and he is made king.
>>341728236
>The lore wasn't as developed back then
>>341728120
So does Zelda. In an ILLUSORY room the likes of which also spawns Phantom Ganon.
>>341728354
>Why they'd want you to rescue them is beyond me
because they were incredibly gay carpenters
>>341726229
You couldn't be more wrong. A good villain is a villain that drives the hero to grow. It really depends on the story you want to tell.
>>341728473
>zora mask
>shiny blue fairy companion
>in a comic make before OoT and MM
what the FUCK
>>341723980
>That hair design
>That badassery
How can Koei make such amazing designs?
>>341725670
this desu
>Dickass thief levels of villains aren't good anymore
Not everyone needs a complex background for why they do what they do, some people want to do good stuff, some people just wanna be assholes.
>>341728553
>when you rescue them, it focuses on them prancing away
I never thought of it that way, before.
>>341728923
>Demise
There's your perpetually angry fuck.
>>341729028
He is more "an ancient evil awakens" angry god kinda thing.
>>341729093
Skyward Sword made it canon that Ganondorf is evil because Demise's hatred awakens inside of him. It awakens inside of every villain the hero needs to face, but that's usually Ganondorf.
>>341725729
OoT Dorf is god tier. Everything about him and what he does is so over the top, it's unbelievable.
>is so ominous he gives Link nightmares without even meeting him
>attacks the castle on his own to get the ocarina
>realizes the green kid was up to something, follows him and (kind of) steals the triforce right in front of him, then takes the time to laugh in his face
>fires that useless shit Talon because he's not good enough to manage Hyrule's largest enterprise
>deports the roving gangs of stalchildren and wipes out the flying death plants
>banishes his own phantom to a void because it sucked
>plays his own theme on a fuckhuge organ while Link is killing his way up his tower
>gets so ripshit pissed he turns into Ganon
>is so powerful at that point, the only solution is to seal him away and let someone else deal with him
And last but not least, the giant fucking carpet he strapped to his armor and calls a cape.
>>341725371
>He thinks the worst villains are horrible jerk asses
>Luca Blight
>Dio Brando
Explains why people remember the classics like them so well.
>>341729224
I know, not really complex though, Gannon does what he does because Demise, I enjoy both of them.
>>341729232
I forgot how much I miss OOT Dorf.
>>341729232
>people say the hero of time is the strongest hero
>hero of the winds killed Ganondorf when the hero of time couldn't
>>341723980
>tfw we'll never get a spin-off game of a younger Ganondorf proving his manliness by fighting his way through temples in the Gerudo badlands
Oh well
>The ACTUAL best villain in video games
Too good for the Sonic franchise
>>341729269
There is this weird mentality among people nowadays that villains shouldn't be villains and heroes shouldn't be heroes, it's retarded honestly. Some settings call for that kind of thing but most don't and it just feels forced and makes it hard to care about anyone when they try to make it 'grey' (aka both the protagonist and the antagonist are usually pieces of shit at once)
>>341729592
EGGMAAAWN
>>341723980
He's nota villain
>>341729232
You forgot
>kills all the Kokiri for no reason
>brings a Goron eating dragon back from the dead and puts it right inside the Goron's home
>freezes over Zora's Domain for the hell of it
>struts over to Kakariko Village and pisses off an ancient evil so powerful it could be a main villain in its own right
>puts his own parents in danger by making them guard one of the sages from the hero
>>341729592
>Eggman
Gay as fuck. It's Robotnik.
>>341729592
>Too good for the Sonic franchise
This is so true it's actually ridiculous, even fucking Sonic Boom couldn't ruin him
>>341729909
He's both
>>341723980
How about his younger Brother
>all these small time villains
>>341730053
No, I'm not a faggot so my properly functioning mental faculties can assure you that Robotnik is his name.
>>341730292
Calling him Robotnik is like calling Tails "Miles"
>>341730378
No, because he got called Robotnik all the time and Tails got called Tails all the time and Miles "Tails" Prower was only used on rare occasions. I'm not even a Sonicfag and I know that.
>>341729902
>all of that because they didn't give him what he wanted immediately
It's so petty and I love it
>>341730496
If you want to get super technical he is Eggman in the original language and even then they tried to patch this up in Sonic Adventure by making Eggman his nickname and Robotnik his real name
>>341730614
>boxart for Sonic 2 says Dr. Robotnik
Alright
>>341729269
>Dio Brando
He is such a hilariously evil villain it's why he's so good
Throughout all of part 1 there's numerous times where they try to make him appear sympathetic and it's like 'oh he just had a bad upbringing and look he really loves his mother maybe he's not all bad!' and then every time he once again shows that no he really is just a massive asshole in every way
It's kind of interesting how jojos did it, the original antagonist and protagonist were pretty much perfect heroes and villains, and all of their successors had different elements of them but never quite lived up to Dio or Jonathan in those regards, kind of an interesting way to do it, if it was intentional which I doubt
>>341730805
No it doesn't, the Japanese boxart doesn't say anything like that, Robotnik was western localisation that kind of merged into canon at a later stage
No.
But he's okay.
>>341730005
>Eh, they're just overhyping him like usual
>"Nice scarf, losers"
I like Ganondorf and all but I hope the next time he appears there isn't another fucking tennis battle.
Seriously, how many times has that been done?
>>341731018
>No it doesn't
Yes it does, and I'm not fucking Japanese.
>>341725698
I'm not that guy. However;
Icon=/=Good
>>341731334
Can you read? The original point was that in the original language (Japanese) Robotnik is called Eggman, which is why I am saying that Eggman is the original name. Pulling out western boxart doesn't disprove that, I am well aware western Sonic called him Robotnik until Sonic Adventure 1.
>>341731219
One? Aghnahim, Zelda and his phantom did the rest.
>>341731429
We didn't have google to dig up the gook names of everything, manuals and boxart are the official names in their respective regions.
>beat his ass into next week through four battles
>after all that shit he doesn't lose his confidence even once
>when he loses the ToP his reaction is something like "oh well, I lost"
>dies standing up because anything else is for pussies
>>341729742
They just want complex characters with complex motives. However people go overboard and think every character that doesn't have deep motives for doing things is automatically a shit character, which isn't really true.
Best villain in video games is Gruntilda the witch.
>Present right from the start, responsible for all of your problems
>Constantly appears throughout the game to berate, mock and threaten you
>Losing the game shows her winning, not just a black screen with "Game over, try again?"
>Physical reminders of her appear to remind you of her, such as statues and the fact most of the game takes place in a giant castle shaped like her head
Gruntilda always made it personal, both for the character and the player. From the very start, you want to kick her ass.
You don't need a deep motivation for a villain. You don't need to have a complicated, sympathetic background for them. All you need is the feeling of "Yo, FUCK this guy" and motivate the players to journey to the end of the game where they finally get to fight the final boss.
>>341731764
I'm coming for you little green shit, I'm done yet!
>>341732312
>>341732312
What the fuck did they even do with his body afterwards
>>341725396
when you look at ww Ganon, he's wearing fine clothing to reflect that he once ruled hyrule before the goddesses drowned the world. in comparison, TP Ganon is still wearing his Knight armor because he was captured on the spot after hearing Link's story. this is the same Ganon just in two different timelines, two different versions of the same man. the gerudo seem to be either scattered or non existent in ww, perhaps he feels regret that his people are in such decline.
>>341732645
Left it there obviously, to stand in the field for all eternity...until he's resurrected in FSA of course.
>>341732705
He should probably regret a lot of things...
>>341731764
I really think that TP deserves more credit for its final boss sequence.
You had the first battle with posessed zelda that had you reflecting spells in a throwback to OoT, then fighting pig ganon in wolf form along with Midna, showing teamwork and adding significance to the wolf and your companionship with Midna.
You then take it outside to hyrule field and team up with Zelda firing light arrows from epona, making both of those characters relevant before you both have a stand-off. Every major ally gets a minute in the spotlight as an essential asset in the fight against Ganon.
Finally you cut the bullshit, draw your swords and throw the fuck down like men using the skills the golden wolf warrior taught you. Having a fair, no gimmicks, man-to-man duel with Ganondorf and stabbing him in the chest with the master sword, then watching him scream on the ground of Hyrule field was a fantastic ending. It only would have been better if it turned into a fistfight.
>>341732928
TP's final boss was what I always wanted from a Ganon fight. Sword fight, horseback, and Ganon fight it was great.
You don't have to fight Ganon as Wolf Link though, you can dodge him as regular Link and shoot him in the face with arrows.
>>341732645
100 years later, an armored skeleton with crazy hair is still standing there, inspiring people to be total badasses.
>>341725694
Nintendo fanboy detected.
You probably couldn't comprehend the story of mgs2. LoZ's story is easier to follow because muh triforce. It's OK. You'll graduate high school one day and be able to increase your reading comprehension. Until then, please leave this site and go to Nintendo.com
>>341732928
>Ganon fought before Ganondorf
Nope.
OoT and HW did it right.
>>341733083
I still think it's great that you can have Midna grab his face and toss him aside like he's a bag of trash before you cut him up. I would have been irked if she had no role in fighting Ganon whatsoever. I think the fact that she directly helps you fight back against the twilight shows how much she changed as a character by the end.
>>341732928
>fistfighting Ganon while he still has the sword through his chest
I would have exploded
>>341733175
MGS fanboy here, Patriots were shitty illuminati villains. Now Solidus, Volgin, etc. they were great, but people like Solidus were just undermined by "lol patriots."
Damn the Patriots.
>>341733330
I meant a fistfight instead of a swordfight, but holy shit that would be metal. I can imagine finishing him off by kicking the sword deeper into him and slamming his head into the ground.
When is link going to get a fist weapon? I want to go full gilgamesh on some stalfos.
>>341726229
Wow you actually saw that tier list ranking villain motivations and thought "yeah, this is a nuanced glance into compelling narrative design, glad I saw it!"
>>341733289
He's more beast than man in TP though. He doesn't seemingly have an ounce of intelligence as Ganon in TP, it's smarter that he'd fight you one on one, sword vs. sword.
>>341733313
True, loved that part of the fight.
>>341733357
While I agree, the patriots (zero, really) were the main antagonists through the series (except 3).
The mgs series is really 3 warring factions. The patriots, solid snake, liquid/solidus (depending on the game).
>>341723980
He's okay
>>341733539
I am suddenly reminded of that scene in the original Fate Stay Night anime, whereShirou stabs Kotomine with a dagger and then punches it into him to stab it even deeper
>>341729429
>ALttP Link defeats Ganon who posseses the complete Triforce
it's not even a contest
>>341727905
>>341729232
And he was beaten by a guy that never went through puberty, since the gods have a sense of humor.
>>341728670
Fairies have been companions in extra media for pretty much the span of the series. Old Zelda cartoon had Sprite, and I think the Valiant comics had their own helper fairy here in the states.
Is there any character whose best incarnation wasn't their HW version?
>>341733994
Solid snake is an agent of the patriots through the whole series though, in mgs4 the only anti-patriots action is done by Sunny, who manipulates Naomi's virus into destroying the patriots without removing the structure of society.
>>341734503
People seem to forget this. I don't really care about power level bullshit, but I always just thought that this was a pretty cool thing.
>>341734736
Young Link was screwed over pretty badly, outside of broken Fierce Diety shenanigans. Made him almost too weak to really use the Kokiri Sword, and no shield, despite the fact that in MM, the kid was well aware of how much of a badass he was by that point in time.
Other than that, everyone basically had a solid upgrade all around, and visually stunning with the designs given to them.
>>341731675
>manuals and boxart are the official names in their respective regions
Yeah, no. In Wing Fortress Zone you can see Eggman's name on the ships. Whatever happens ingame, is canon. Manuals are just boring flavor text to fill up space, especially if they're based on a series in Japan. They have no impact on the game itself.
>>341734951
Not entirely true. Remember snake faked his death in two and was an unknown factor in the simulation.
>>341734736
Everyone else.
HW wasn't a good musou, it only seems good because Zelda went through a slump and a dry spell. For Zelda, that underwhelming musou was a breath of fresh air. Otherwise, it's an underwhelming musou and an underwhelming side game overall.
>>341734503
Silver arrows must be some really hardcore shit considering a twice upgraded master sword couldn't kill him.
>>341736079
bullshit, snake died in that tanker 2 years ago
>>341731179
Most of /v/ doesn't even know who old Jonny here even is.
>>341730113
I love how he was a good sport about losing in the end.
>>341734736
Tingle.
>>341723980
>generic as fuck
>no motives
Gannondorf isn't even the best nintendo villian.
>>341736079
Replay mgs2, that's just the bullshit they fed ocelot. Philantropy was always a part of the simulation and one of the major contributors to the organization were the patriots themselves.
>>341734612
>Old Zelda cartoon had Sprite
It also has archer Zelda, a horse and Tetra's colors.
>>341737305
true
>>341737560
I would argue wario is more of a anti hero then true villian, porky is pure evil.
>>341737962
he can be both
>>341737962
>porky is pure evil.
he just wanted to be friends ;_;
>>341737560
>Flag
I always thought Wario to be French.
>>341738803
Porky didn't want to be friends. He wanted everyone to be friends with him. He wasn't interested in liking other people but he still wanted people to like him anyway.
>>341738860
because of gerlic?
>>341737309
The AI (the colonel) said snake was never factored in the simulation. Liquid tipped off snake right?
Maybe I need to play through again...
>>341725808
DIO actually isn't a very good villain shitbrick (and I say that liking him). But he was still a better "LMAO EVIL BRO!" tier villain than Gannon.
>>341739284
I didn't like DIO much myself either.
He doesn't really do much, in the end. Sure he's the main source of everyone's problems but he only really becomes active at the end. Not only that but he's very cautious while fighting Jotaro, which makes him seem a little weak since he needs to be careful.
Dio didn't pussyfoot around as much as DIO did. Dio already thought up countermeasures such as Vaporising Freeze and used them in fight. DIO just had "I can stop time" but had to keep spamming it while he contemplated what to do for a while and kept backing off every time it looked likely Jotaro would get a single hit on him. Contrast this to the iconic scene where Dio deliberately takes the hit from Dire's signature move to counter and freeze him.
No, he's not. Gaunter O'Dimm is the best villain in any game.
>>341736157
Just how strong are the great fairies? I seem to recall them doing some crazy shit in HW, but I never really thought of them as really powerful.
>>341734503
It's outright stated in the game that he would be far more powerful if he could fully cross over into the light world. I assume he doesn't have much strength from the triforce, if any in the dark world.
>>341724219
No, blizzard destroyed the game and it was dead long before the lich king died
>>341740454
Great Fairies are decent, but they're still able to get their shit slapped as shown by Majora's mask.
The one that granted Light Arrows and level 4 sword upgrade in A Link To The Past was basically top tier, like the queen or something based on the ending. The only other game that springs to mind with a head fairy would be Wind Waker.
>>341734503
The nature of the completed Triforce seems strange to me. When Ganondorf has just the Triforce of Power, he uses it to amplify his magic. The full Triforce has never been seen to be used in that way, as far as we know. It's like when it's complete all it can do is grant wishes, and talk that one time.
>>341740901
The very first LoZ game had faeries, and then great faeries as a separate entity.
>>341734736
I would argue Link isn't really so great, design and voice wise. OoT Link has him beat there.
I DO like that he becomes a cocky little shit for a while after getting the Master Sword. That was a fun little bit of characterization.
>>341729232
Ganondorf is Trump?
>>341740901
To be fair, Majora's Mask itself was beyond broken, I don't think it's a fair comparison.
>>341723980
Not the best.
Best Nintendo villain, maybe.
Gee, I just wonder what Ganon's up to.
>>341741163
What would happen if Ganon wore Majora's Mask?
>>341734503
ALttP Link is also the same one from LA and both Oracle games. He's straight up uncontested strongest and most versatile Link.
>>341741224
>Ganondorf becomes so corrupt that he permanently becomes Ganon, and loses his mind becoming just a mindless, but overpowered monster.
>Ganon becomes even more so corrupted that he isn't even a living creature anymore, and more of force of nature.
I hope that's what's happened to him, this is the coolest form of Ganon so far if so.
>>341741328
It tries to take over his mind, except he then turns it around and takes over Majora's mind; fusing its power with his own.
Link must then gather the triforce, which has split into one triforce piece(s) to drain their power and force out a fair fight.
>>341741328
It would be extremely painful...
>>341741328
Ganondorf would realize what it was and break it. A true king has no use for tools with a mind, and more importantly, agenda, that is not their own. Why do you think Demise mindbroke Ghirahim into the perfect cockslut so early on.
>>341741976
This. No amount of power is worth getting stabbed in the back at a critical moment.
Will they ever explain why he switched from sword to trident at some point?
>>341742620
I like the trident better for him.
>>341742620
The trident is usually some powerful artifact from a previous, unknown villain, in FSA he wields the trident of power, in alttp I think it has a name too. But a sword seems his default weapon.
>>341742620
What? The trident has traditionally been Ganon's weapon of choice.
>>341742620
His Swords were always just swords. His trident is some wacky mystical super weapon, at least according to Four Sword Adventure.
>>341742865
Chronologically Ocarina ganon is first ganon and he wields exclusively swords, except for phantom ganon I guess.
My country lay within a vast desert
>>341723980
Gay power-fag without any real plan other than MUH POWAH
>>341743881
>pretend to want a better life for your people
>get ultimate power
>your people still live as peasants in a desert
>>341730118
FUCK YOU ERIC
>>341744341
with all the redeads and other monsters ganon summoned to hyrule, I think the gerudos preferred to stay in the desert
