>create giant interesting open world to explore
>want to have the game feel like an exciting journey
>ruin it by adding fast travel
why do developers do this shit?
>>341712865
Fast travel only adds to a game
If you dont want to use it because you want to explore more, dont use it
>>341712865
Don't use fast travel then you dingus
What was the last open world game without fast travel?
GTA 3?
Even morrowind had silt striders, strongholds, etc
>>341712996
fast travel detracts from a game the same way that quicksave/quickload detract from a game. they affect game/level design, balance, and pacing.
>>341712865
I'll be fine if the fast travel is done in game, such as you pay for a carriage ride or something
if it's like a bethesda game I'll be pissed and won't use it
>>341712865
I'm not bothered by the idea of fast travel but I wish you needed to go to a shrine to use it, which shouldn't be too bad considering they're all over the place. It just seems weird for Link to wisp right out of thin air inexplicably like he does in game.
>>341712865
>Create giant interesting open world to explore.
>Want to have the game feel like an exciting adventure.
>Ruin it by forcing the player to walk for 15-20 minutes just to reach their destination.No offence OP, it's just the most relevant picture.
>>341713065
>Even morrowind had silt striders, strongholds, etc
that's fast travel done right though. you can only travel from specific areas to other specific areas, you can't just teleport around the map like a wizard
>>341713149
No they dont. Stop trying to stir shit up.
>>341712865
as long as you can't travel specific locations, and only landmarks like xenoblade then it should be fine.
>>341713149
Fuck off, man. Fast travel is necessary for any game with a huge overworld. I don't wanna spend an hour getting from point A to point B when I need to go back somewhere.
>>341713256
that can be fixed by better map and game design instead of an instant "this area is boring, let's go somewhere else" button
>>341713149
*fast travel detracts from a game for me
It has absolutely no negative effect on people who want it, which is the vast majority of people. It doesnt even have an affect on you, except whatever made up bullshit you decide to pretend is ruined because of 1 feature you dont like
Fast travel is necessary. You get bored real quick if you repeat going through areas again and again.
More like, Skyrim was fast travel done wrong, because you can fast travel to almost every area and immersion and exploration suffers as a result.
You should only be able to fast travel to specific areas, like towns or special areas.
>>341713185
You have to earn each fast travel spot by completing the corresponding shrine.
From what was shown they are moderately hidden and physics based.
Didn't look hard, but it was the very first area in the game.
>>341713335
Name a single game where there is no fast travel and where traveling through the same map path 50 to 100 times is still interesting every single time.
>>341712865
Fuck you. If you don't like fast travel, it's so easy to not use it, but I FUCKING HATE having to trek back and forth to advance the plot. The only open world game I ever really liked was Xenoblade X, because of how easy and convenient it was to fast travel.
If breath of the wild forces me to climb to a tower to unlock a waypoint, and then open the menu to equip an instrument, then get off my horse, then play a song, then choose from a small number of warp points, then play a song to summon a horse again, I will not buy it guaranteed
>Optional things make a game bad
>If people don't play the game I play it it's bad
>STOP LIKING WHAT I DON'T LIKE
It's simple, if something is optional and you don't like it, don't do it or don't use it.
Stop bitching like a little baby.
>>341713149
sure they do. for one - they mean the game isn't balanced around:
- checkpoints; safe areas vs dangerous areas
- encounters (they don't really exist, flow is destroyed)
- actual consequences for dying (just spam save/reload or instantly escape harm)
>>341713327
>>341713357
i should clarify. see >>341713270. in-game mass transit/etc from hubs is fine
>>341713592
sorry, meant to quote >>341713279
>>341713453
none of them. good games do not have that problem: you do not travel through the same map path 50 to 100 times at all.
>>341713663
>none of them. good games do not have that problem: you do not travel through the same map path 50 to 100 times at all.
Please point out this open world game with zero backtracking
>>341712865
Why's his shirt so small?
>>341712865
>game is ruined by an optional feature that lets me save time that would've been wasted pressing the pad for several minutes
>>341713382
This this this! Morrowind did it right, they made fast travel using modes of transportation like boats and silt striders. Why did the shitposter ignore this post?
>>341713592
Prove it, go on. Post some evidence the game is negatively affected by any of those things.
>>341712865
>Majora's Mask had Fast Travel
>whiny tryhard pissbabies probably didn't even know this
>>341713663
In Zelda games you do. Ever since Ocarina of Time, there's always been these collection quests. Finding Gold Skulltulas, finding Poes, finding Bugs. I highly doubt that BotW is gonna be any different. In this huge, ludicrously vast overworld that makes Ocarina's Hyrule Field look like a fucking pointy end of a toothpick, you're probably gonna have to search every inch of it for the hundred elusive Slightly Shinier Shades Of Green Grasspatches.
>>341713663
>none of them. good games do not have that problem
And good games with open worlds and fast travel dont suffer from anything you listed in >>341713592
You are literally complaining about nothing.
>>341713793
Link is a big guy.
>>341712865
I agree, at the most only add a few spots for fast travel and have them accessed through other points
That way travel and choices still have permanence
>>341713065
GTA 3 still had taxis.
>>341713773
any semi-open world game like souls, stalker, metroid, etc
fully open world games like new bethesda, ubisoft, etc are all complete dogshit. no point in trying to defend them. i'm sure there is some exception i'm forgetting about but it generally holds
>>341713895
do i have to spell it out for you? here:
- games without safe vs dangerous areas have no tension, because there is no risk. that is boring
- games without structured enemy design and encounters are boring
- games where failure/dying/etc have zero risk are boring
of course, if you like skyrim etc then that's your own problem
>>341712865
You're literally the only person I've ever heard of who has a problem with fast travel
You're on you're own on this one, that's like bitching that we have cars or planes when we can simply walk
Hell if I could teleport my ass to the store or work, I would
>>341714143
>semi-open world
Thank you and good night. You admit you were wrong all along then.
>>341713945
>In Zelda games you do. Ever since Ocarina of Time, there's always been these collection quests. Finding Gold Skulltulas, finding Poes, finding Bugs. I highly doubt that BotW is gonna be any different. In this huge, ludicrously vast overworld that makes Ocarina's Hyrule Field look like a fucking pointy end of a toothpick, you're probably gonna have to search every inch of it for the hundred elusive Slightly Shinier Shades Of Green Grasspatches.
that's bad game design. why are you defending it? older 2d zelda games didn't have that problem.
>>341714143
You're claiming those things and posting no evidence any of its true, try again.
>>341712865
>Backtracking is fun
Fek off mait
>>341714143
Souls and Metroid especially have constant backtracking and going to the same areas multiple times
I honestly like how Morrowind did it, you actually had to plan if you wanted to get from one side of the map to the other. Plus you actually had to pay for it and some means of transportation were blocked (Mages Guild, pylons). It would've been even better to actually see everything from the back of the Silt Strider because after one playthrough it was just jumping from one strider to the other and finishing quests as fast as possible.
>>341714143
>any semi-open world game like souls, stalker, metroid, etc
ALL those games have backtracking, what the shit are you smoking.
You're either shitposting or an idiot.
Also
>semi open world
Talk about moving the goalposts shitposter.
>>341712865
Just don't use it? What's the issue?
>>341714238
>older 2d zelda games didn't have that problem.20 shells
>>341714413
Hes an idiot trying to fit in on /v/, thats the issue.
/thread
>>341714414
not one of the game's highlights.
>>341713592
>- actual consequences for dying (just spam save/reload or instantly escape harm)
HA
HA
It's current year brother, there is never a real consequence for dying in today's video games.
If you really want consequence, just start a new game after every death. Have fun with that.
>>341714238
Well they're optional, but more importantly, older Zelda games wouldn't have allowed for it. The only way you could hide anything in the very first Zelda is the make it invisible, and that's what they did. Because they couldn't do much else. They had 54 colors to choose from and a handful of pixels. It's not like in Twilight Princess where shit's hidden simply by making them too small to see clearly. In the original LoZ, if a dot was buzzing around in the field, you were gonna fucking notice.
>>341712865
They know they aren't capable of crafting a large world that is actually interesting to travel through, so they have to allow the player to teleport everywhere.
>>341714209
>no u (^:
>>341714297
evidence that they're lacking? it's self evident if you've ever played any. try playing good games.
of course, "boring" is subjective. there's no lack of bad taste.
>>341714371
that type of backtracking isn't close to being the same as bethesda/ubisoft style map warping, and you know it. revisiting old areas once or twice isn't the same thing. please tell me which area in any of those games is visited "50 to 100 times"
Dragons Dogma is a perfect example of why day travel is a good idea
>>341714470Trading up to the Magnifying glassTingle Trophy [/spoilerMaiamaisTrophy rings
>>341714535
yeah. it's a shame. multiplayer games are the only ones with any sort of tension these days and even those have gotten pretty casual.
> If you really want consequence, just start a new game after every death. Have fun with that.
not much fun if the game isn't built around it, or if the game has no depth. it works in roguelikes because the mechanics are deep enough to make restarts still fun. not so for modern AAA games
>>341714605
>which area in any of those games is visited "50 to 100 times"
Firelink shrine :3
Souls is more of a hub world design than an open world though, so it makes sense to back track through the central hub. The only similar things in real open world games is major cities, but that's very different, purely by the fact that I said "cities" plural, they become hubs, but the map design philosophy is usually very different.
>>341715092
Just git gud son.
>>341715238
no point in getting gud at something unrewarding
>>341715238
Get a grip, gramps.
>>341713149
i dont think i can follow your logic anon, fast travel is an option, you dont need it in any moment to progress, its optional, If u dont like it, dont use it
>>341714143
>any semi-open world game
Features included to cut down on unnecessary tedium are fine, Anon. Are people really so determined to throw a shit fit over everything that they're cry about "casualization" when this is the first Zelda game in for fucking ever where everything in the goddamn game doesn't do quarter heart health damage and you can even get one shotted by some boss monsters?
>it's bad because i'm a terminal autist who loves games that are 90% travel, and also i must represent most consumers
Gee, who would have thought 4chan had retarded pieces of shit starting threads.
>>341713065
State of decay had no fast travel, and I hope the sequel keeps it that way
>>341713382
I downloaded a carriage mod. Let's me ride it from town to town for gold. It's great
>make game a guaranteed bore by making it open world
>make it even more boring and tedious by removing fast travel
brilliant
>>341713357
>It has absolutely no negative effect on people who want it, which is the vast majority of people.
Why the hell do you assume that it having a negative effect is impossible?
It's like having difficulty options in a game, says Dark Souls. Your game isn't designed around it, so the people using said options will have a very different experience than the one not playing it. Very different experience can and do sometimes mean worse experience.
Yes, having the choice of making the game easier can be negative.
![006[1].png](https://i.imgur.com/BF5tahO.png "006[1].png")
>>341712865
>yfw Fast Travel is as old as open world exploration games themselves
>>341715857
It being an option will not having those not using it, but it will alter the game experience or those using it.
While playing Skyrim i did abuse the fuck out of the fast travel option, because it merely being available made me not want to not use it.
It's very bad because Skyrim has a lot of sidequest and hidden dungeons so i did miss a lot of that.
>>341717684
>will not having
will not affect*
>>341712865
>>ruin it by adding fast travel
Because some gamers are autistic and just want to rush through and say they completed it, and then they get their milkbone.
>>341717785
and proceed to complain about the emptyness of the world they did not explore
>>341717684
refer to here: >>341716695
Basically what you're saying is you're extremely retarded. Besides if the game is so shit you don't want to explore the world which has hidden dungeons and quests in it I really don't think fast travel is the problem there
>>341717949
Indeed.
>>341714079
You couldn't hail them though. But you can use trains to get around all 3 cities.
>>341712865
>>341717785
>>341717949
Wicher 3 have fast travel, yet you gladly spend time to explore it and enjoy its fullness.
Instead, no one enjoys doing the same route over and over in a videogame (if you're not playing some truck simulator), because it's, again, a videogame.
Then you can say: dev should stop putting you in the condition of ping-pong between quest marks from one part of the world to another. At that point, game's just a large corridor.
>>341713149
>quicksave/quickload detract
And why is that?
>people that fast travel in dwarf fortress
>>341717970
>Basically what you're saying is you're extremely retarded
Are you just mad because someone thinks differently than you or do you think you can never be wrong without having to argue?
>Besides if the game is so shit you don't want to explore the world which has hidden dungeons and quests in it I really don't think fast travel is the problem there
It's mere existence can lead to the player being lazy and not want to go through the hassle of exploring the world. And when it is the case, the player will complain that the world is empty.
>maplestory before fast travel
Excellent community, a sense of wonder of the vastness of exploration
>maplestory with fast travel
Dead game, no one talks to each other, maps are a quarter of the size they used to be
>>341715462
Getting good is it's own reward. You might understand that if you had ever actually gotten good.
>>341712865
Don't use it.
Feel free to play Xenoblade X without using it if you want, but meanwhile I'll fast travel as much as I can.
I don't see why people like you get mad for optional features.
>>341712865
nobody wants to waste time backtracking.
>>341712865
>waaah why don't all games cater to my own particular tastes
How about only playing games that you like and call it a day? You can go suck a dick otherwise.
Fucking manchildren, traveling is even the worst thing in reality where you can interact with everything and the world is actually full with things. In a game it's even worse. Fuck I hate driving.
>>341713889
Because they wouldn't have anything to shitpost about.
>>341719528
Some other faggot argued that fast travel changes level desing, quest lines and shit like that...
probably soulfags that think their memegame should be canon
>>341713889
>Why did the shitposter ignore this post?
because it's not the type of fast travel they are talking about
>>341719693
There's fast travel in souls games... and the first Dark Souls had wonderful level design right up until you unlocked the fast travel and the designers stopped caring.
>>341712865
I sure do fucking love MMOs that do that, having to walk all over the map and waste 30 minutes of my life every time I need to go somewhere to the point most of my hours are me just letting the character walk while I do something in another tab is so fun really.
>>341719693
>probably soulfags that think their memegame should be canon
Uhhh... wat?
>>341719830
>>341719850
You're right, I admit I was wrong.
>ruin it by not wasting the player's time
ok
>>341713382
Hinoka a shit.
>>341719830
I don't know about that... Design-wise, I liked the Duke's Archives way more than areas like Darkroot Garden or the Ash Lake.
I hope there are no heart pieces to find this time.
>>341717683
Fast traveling through a game's mechanics is usually thought of as fine but fast traveling through a menu you can pull up nearly without restriction is shit
>>341717683
Irrelevant to whether it's a good idea.
>>341713149
You're completely correct and this thread seems to be a congregation of people with the shittiest tastes imaginable.
>>341717785
>>341717785
some people don't like exporing. they want to get to the actual fun parts.
>>341712865
The world is extremely big though, It would have been a huge pain if you wanted to get something from the other side of the map. And you can only warp to specific locations which is the best way to do it.
>>341712996
>Fast travel only adds to a game
Yeah sure.
And you should have an option to not die when you run out of health too.
And have it so that you really have to pay for anything if you don't want to.
After all, it just adds to the game.
>>341720425
>shittiest tastes imaginable
Drama queen much?
This entire thread literally shows how the gamers of today are ADHD fuckheads.
>>341713149
Unless they can make the encounters in each area varied enough that going though them multiple times won't become tedious than just adding a fast travel system is just a better solution. Dragon's Dogma was a perfect example of this.
>>341720551
That comparison's retarded.
Dying in a game matters by being a deterrent from being bad at the game. Fast-travel adds an extra travel option.
If you like moving around w/o fast travel so much, who the fuck is stopping you from doing just that?
>>341720691
>fuckheads
Truly, spoken like someone with perspective.
>Bitching about Fast Travel
>Something that's been in Zelda since the very beginning.
I don't want to live on this planet anymore.
>>341720551
If you unlock an area, what does it add by forcing the player to walk there again. You are just wasting their time.
>>341712865
I think that in addition to only warping to specific places you should also only be able to warp from specific places but I'm mostly fine with it.
>>341720551
As long as it's optional, why care?
>>341712865
phantom pain had no fast travel (don't fucking mention the box delivery or I will kill you) and look ho GOOOOOOD that was lmao
>>341721123
they are as dumb as the 'gamers' that think an easy mode in Dark Souls games is a bad thing.
ocarina of time would've been a massive drought without fast travel and the world there wasn't even huge
>>341712865
I dont understand your complaint. Do they make you fastravel or something?
>>341721250
No shit. It's impossible to beat the game without using fast travel.
Fast travel has been all through zelda for fucking DECADES.
>>341721040
Because there can, especially in Zelda games, be places or object to unlock that you could not before because it required a specific item
>>341719830
I forgot nintendo worked exactly like from software when designing levels, after all they are only the guys that invented super mario, how could they be so skilled at level design?
>>341721330
This. what the fuck /v/?
even the first one had fast travel with the the stupid flute
http://zeldawiki.org/Warping
cmon shitposters. make an effort atleast
>>341721387
so just warp back there and use that new item? I don't see what you are trying to prove by inconveniencing the player.
>all the underages in this thread
>>341721621
this
>>341712865
It depends on what kind of game they're making. If they want to make a fun theme park kind of thing where the player is supposed to relax and enjoy, it works because it minimizes the amount of pointless walking/backtracking they have to do. If they want to make the world feel dangerous/realistic then it'll just take away from the game - it wouldn't work in Stalker or something like that. If they want navigating from place to place to be part of the challenge, fast travel would remove from the game for the sake of player convenience
Also, if the devs plan to include fast travel first and then design the world around that, they might pay less attention to how the world would be enjoyable/interesting to navigate, or how the locations should fit together - we might have seen that in DaS 2
>>341712865
>>341712865
You'll want it more when you've beaten most of the game and need to do something on the other side of the map.
You know Zelda games have had fast travel for ages right? Didn't Link's Awakening have some fast travel? And OoT? And MM?
>>341721192
As if summons, signs, and bloodstains aren't easy mode.
>>341722373
Zelda 1 had two different kinds of fast travelling. One with tunnels and one with warping with the flute.
>>341722208
by that time you're most likely to have unlocked certain tools that allow you to travel faster without fast travel
>>341713149
>quicksave/quickload detract from a game
This, it ruins so many games when the developer throws it in thoughtlessly. Thank fuck D44M had checkpoints instead
>>341713327
You can be loaded in at nearby areas like a shit ton of video games have already done in the past.Does san andreas have fast travel?No, and it doesn't need it.I'm not against fast travel in any game though, i just think your opinion that any game with a huge overworld needing it is ridiculous.
>>341712865
Skyrim got it half-right. The carts near the cities is the way to go. Transportation that costs. fast travel is fucking cancer. It doesn't work otherway around like for example Fallout 4 with survival difficulty. It doesn't make game more interesting or realistic. It makes it tedious.
Why are you all getting so upset about OP? In games about exploring and belonging to a massive world, being able to teleport around the map at will is always going to be a bad thing.
Do you keks think Shadow of the Colossus would be improved with fast travel?
Actually you might, considering most of /v/ seems to be kids with ADHD nowadays.
>>341721161
but there was the box delivery, dingus.
>GAME HAD NO FAST TRAVEL EXCEPT THE FAST TRAVEL FUNCTION!
>>341721330
1. That doesn't mean its good
2. None of the zeldas before were so heavily exploration and journey focused as this one.
>>341721972
If you can warp around to anywhere, dying is meaningless.
Depends if travelling is an important part of the experience
