How were you supposed to know to wait?
Because it was an option and that is enough reason to try it out.
>>341649526
Only the heartless jumped
>>341649526
If you wait and try to jump again, the game flat out says "gotta wait for Shadow" instead of just "wait".
As for how you are supposed to know, the player is likely aware that Shadow was stuck holding of Kefka.
>>341649526
When did people stop trying different things in games? Especially in RPGs.
I didn't want to beat up that retard in the beginning of Xenogears since it didn't seem in character so I just kept blocking and lo and behold the event plays out differently if you didn't beat up the little kid. To be fair I was surprised but I think people rely too much on walkthroughs and guides these days
>>341649526
How were we suppose to know to Steal from Rubacante to keep him from opening his cloak?
How are we suppose to know to take items off of Aeris before she died?
How were we suppose to know to steal GFs from bosses without compulsively trying draw on every boss?
How were we suppose to know that doing a one time event gave us Jecht Shot?
How were we suppose to know not to check that one chest until the end of the game, in order to get the god spear?
The FF games always pull this shit. Which is one of the many reasons it sucks. FFIV basically has this dumb mechanic at least 12 times.
>>341649847
You've got a deadline approaching though. That's enough reason to do it right now.
How the fuck was I suppose to know you have to talk to Aerith 3 times in a row in order to get Curaga.
Seriously there was no indication
I waited till there were about 10 seconds left before jumping, I still feel awful about this.
Save states, duh.
i really love that game
>>341649526
Your charters said you'd wait.
>>341649847
It would be fine if there was a save state at that time. Its annoying because Final Fantasy always puts the 'trial and error' segments right after major boss fights or an hour after the last save point. As if they're doing it on purpose. But then, this is the same game which throws you back to the title screen if you die, making you once again lose hours of gameplay.
>>341651603
Your characters did, too.
How was I supposed to know I had to pick pocket Duncan like three times in order to get some sensitive information from him regarding his background?
Cause Shadow is Relms dad.
ITT: New Millenials dont understand how 90s games work
>>341650372
>>341651659
theres a fucking save point right before ultima, that's like only 15 minutes ago. throw yourselves off a cliff
>>341652560
>ultima
OP image is after the fight with Kefka on the destroyed continent. Which you should throw yourself off of.
>save Shadow on the floating continent
>save him from death in the veldt
>convince him to fight for peace and love
>sudokus in the kefka tower anyway
>entitled people wanting everything to be handed to them
It's ok if you don't get a character/item in your first playthrough
>>341652761
pretty sure he meant atma weapon and you don't fight kefka there anyways
>>341650749
>not talking to best girl over and over
baka desu senpaiShitposting aside, I'm pretty sure I only got this because I noticed their dialogue was different each time I talked to them and my autism made me talk to them over and over until I had seen all their dialogue.
>>341650338
>what is replayability factor on a 90s jrpg
>what are secrets
>>341650338
GREEN PUBES
>>341652839
These are the same guys who wrote the story to this game.
>characters completely destroy any opposition
>one of them still chooses to kill themselves to save everyone
>>341649847
Damn, you're right, but in the heat of the battle I never thought about that.
>>341649847
You had similar opinion before in this game too
And not just once
It's still did nothing but allowed you to explore area before leaving it forever
>>341653130
This.
FF4's plot was mostly a contest to see who could die the most heroically, and then have their sacrifice completely meaningless because they come back later anyways.
Fuck FF4
>>341653012
Plenty of games in the 90s (and 80s) had better mechanics. Final Fantasy was just bad. Making you miss things because of story triggers or not even telling you they existed. Sometimes you would even think to go back and talk to a certain NPC to see if they had an item. But because you didn't talk to them between the super brief period of defeating [x] boss and the next story cutscene, you didn't get the item. And in order to talk to that NPC, you'd have to run out of the dungeon you are currently in, get into the airship, go back to the overworld and go to a specific NPC. I speak of course about waking up Yang with his wife's frying pan. That's just needlessly convoluted.
>>341649526
because if you talk to Toad, he fucking tells you to jump into the fucking painting.
>durr how was i supposed to know to talk to Toad
kill yourself
>>341653663
He only said EEEAAAUGH
It doesn't mean a person is dead.
>>341653663
"Character deaths are impactful! Let's throw in as many as possible!" -Sakaguchi and George Martin
How were you supposed to know you had to super bomb inside the canister?
>>341653574
Excellent.
>>341653663
>>341653663
>they come back later anyways.
Then surely wimp lo..
>>341652892
That's not autism, that's how you're supposed to play video games silly.
>>341649526
1. It gives you a choice in the first place, meaning there's something worth checking out.
2. If you chose "wait" out of curiosity, then the second time you open the prompt it literally says "gotta wait for SHADOW..."
It's really not that obscure.
>most people miss shadow's dreams
>>341653845
Nah. This kind of thing was what made you play the game several times.
It was the kind of stuff that you went to school and said "Oh shit I beat FF6 but I'm sad Shadow died" and some faggot would go and "lol but Shadow doesn't die, you gotta wait for him anon" and then you feel sad about being a hasty fucker.
Same thing with literally every secret in every game ever. This kind of stuff was supposed to be discovered over a long period of time and added to the replayability of the game.
Getting 100% during the first playthrough of a game meant one of two things: either the game is bad or you used a guide.
>>341653663
Nice shit taste you have there, anon.
>>341652560
>throw yourselves off a cliff
BUT THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT HE DID DAMMIT
>>341650338
>How were we suppose to know that doing a one time event gave us Jecht Shot?
That fucking mini-game is brutal as well.
>>341649526
Didn't Shadow literally tells you to wait for him? Or am I delusional?
>>341654779
no he literally says the opposite. he tells you to go on without him the world needs you
>>341654327
Tellah's spirit shows up in the ending along with all the living people. Completely breaking the games logic. Not that this game had much logic going on anyway.
>Cecil is used
>kain is mindfucked
>cecil is used again
>kain is mindfucked again
>everyone dies protecting Cecil
>Cecil is used AGAIN
>Kain is mind fucked AGAIN
>lol nevermind, everyone is okay....except Tellah
>lol let's all go to the moon
>Cecil is a Lunarian so its okay he's being used
>Golbez is his brother so its okay he's being used
>everyone in the game is being used by Zeromus
>golbez is literally Naruto being mind controlled
>the moon flies away
Holy shit, were they high when they wrote this?
>>341650338
>How were we suppose to know that doing a one time event gave us Jecht Shot?
Oh. I guess my Tidus will never use that huh.
>>341654836
obligatory
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xuWkvyeAu0E
>>341649526
Bonus for those who bought the strategy guide
>>341649526
So many bad answers in this topic.
A huge part of gameplay back in the 80s an 90s was trial and error, it was one of the ways they lengthened the time someone would spend playing it. You are supposed to fail sometimes, and you need to redo missions.
Plenty of games still use trial and error to this day, whether /v/ wants to admit it or not.
>>341650338
>How were we suppose to know to Steal from Rubacante to keep him from opening his cloak?
I legitimately didn't even know this was a thing. I thought I had learned everything at this point.Shit like this is why I've switched to Dragon Quest instead.
>>341654836
Truly a masterpiece.
>>341652447
More like ITT Oldfags try to justify their bullshit mechanics.
I was an 80's kid, and even as a kid, I recognized that this was horseshit.
>>341654456
>implying millennials riddles with ADHD will do multiple playthroughs
I'm surprise they can even do one, they probably just watch it on youtube or something anyways
>>341649990
This
>>341654646
all you have to do is mash x and move your analog stick in a circle. sometimes let go of the stick and mash x if there's an insult in the middle of your screen instead of on the edge of your screen.
>>341654836
I yet it's the most ported FF.
>>341653845
The ff7 Fort Condor mission were the worst offender of this. You literally had to go back after every action you did to make sure you didn't miss a single mission.
Alan the rewards were fucking shit making it a slap in the face to anyone who actually did it.
>>341652839
His best friend Baram got injured when they were on a heist, and was bro enough to not want to weight Clyde so he told Clyde to leave him and also kill him off quickly so he wouldn't get caught and tortured. But Clyde was too much of a coward, and just left him to get caught and tortured. The fact that he would have nightmares about that meant that he never got over it and still felt guilt for it.
>>341654819
>watch a walkthrough again
Welp I was wrong though he says "I will see you again" so I guess I misinterpreted
>>341654836
Of all the dumb stuff in FFIV, I think Golbez being Cecil's brother and that whole flashback about him abandoning his brother outside Baron (on the other side of the world) as a 5 year old was the dumbest part. It takes you three different airships and a trip to the moon to get to that village...but Golbez just dropped him off as a 5 year old. Yeah, sure guys.
>>341654456
Nah, fuck off. There's no justifying shit like Excalibur 2 or the Zodiac Spear which are only accessible if you play in an ADD riddled way that flies in the face of the gamefeel that RPGs in general go for. Stop trying to justify bad shit and just admit its bad so we can get better and move on.
>>341655115
You've posted the same thing three times. We get it.
>>341654456
>and then you feel sad about being a hasty fucker
no, you blame the game for not telling you enough to be able to guess that for yourself.
There's a difference between secrets which are fun and make you say "neat," and 'secrets' that make you say "that's bullshit."
>>341655082
>>341655115
Both of these are true. Trial and error game play was used to make games longer and sell strategy guides. They went hand in hand
>>341655118Good man. Come into the light my son.
>>341655719
(You)
>>341655115
To be fair, in addition to Shadow telling you to go on without him, previous sections in the game that gave you a stay/go choice left nothing to discover if you chose the "stay" option. The player is vastly prompted to jump, especially since they're under a time limit at a particularly story-heavy moment.
>you are supposed to fail sometimes
But missing Shadow isn't a failure. You can go on to beat the entire game and the story still makes sense.
>>341652892
>>not talking to best girl over and over
What does Yuffie have to do with what he posted?
>>341654929
I think if you go back to the boat later in the game you can retry that event.
>>341656021
but in those other sections you didn't leave one of your team members behind you moron, it's called context
>>341655621
You know that the point of stupid shit like Excalibur 2 was to make you replay the game right? You do realize that back then people used to have only a handful of games and play the shit out of them for months/years, right? Companies didnt have DLC shit, expansions (mostly), updates, fixes, etc to keep people playing their games.
Chrono Trigger is widely beloved for being the greatest JRPG of all time and pulled those kind of stunts all the time.
>how the fuck we were supposed to know that XXX
You weren't. Like some already said here, playing blindly back then could award hundreds of hours of trial and error to get everything and even then you were never sure that you had everything.
People complain that games are extremely linear and boring (see FFXIII) but when you are given choice and obscure things to dig out, people complain.
What's the problem of not having literally everything possible in the first playthrough? Did any of those puzzles and secrets prevent you from finishing the game? Damn, do you even like videogames?
>>341654318
Team Cid really was the best team
I used to keep a sepearte save file just so I could run around the world with Cid as the lead character.
Why did FF stop letting you choose the map character?
>>341656214
You have to go back on the boat before you get the airship. And there's a certain point in the story (the fight with Sin on the beach) where you can no longer make the long trek through all the areas just to get to that point.
>duh how was I suppose to know you can get all these optional party members in the world of ruins??? the game never told me about them
you are suppose to go explore you fuck nut
>>341656248
But the context of that scene is a tense timed sequence about getting off the falling floating island, spurred on by said team member specifically telling you to go.
>>341655115
>So many bad answers in this topic.
Is the irony your own post?
Trial and error would be you fuck something up, then you have to redo it.
Final Fantasy has moments where you fuck up, and then are never told that and then miss out on incredible items and powerful techniques or even outright full endings without the game ever telling you otherwise.
5/10, made me respond.
>>341656441
>you are suppose to go explore you fuck nut
In his defense, its a Final Fantasy game. Which usually penalizes you for exploring. And there wasn't anything in FFVI before that worth finding through exploration. FF games just suck at showing you what you can or cannot do.
>>341656421
you know I think my biggest issue with gaming today is how disposable they became
even with franchises people are ready to chuck the old ones in the bin as soon as the new and shiny came out
>>341652839
I stopped saving Shadow on the Veldt just so he wouldn't fucking kill himself in the ending.
>>341656441
No, you were supposed to buy the strategy guide.
>>341655790
It's like complaining that the Chris Houlihan room is too hidden. Well, that's exactly what secrets are.
Considering them bullshit or neat is a matter of opinion. I consider bullshit the ones that are obvious, but your new millenial mind considers those that are hard to find.
I jumped and left Shadow because I was so used to other FF games giving me a choice, then if I pick the wrong choice, I get a game over and sent back to the loading screen. And I didn't want to play the last two hours over again.
>>341650372
The timer's right there. You can afford to wait.
>>341656537
>team member sacrificing themselves to give you time to leave
well, you can take it as the heroic sacrifice it was meant to be or if you decided to wait you'll be rewarded for not just going with the flow
what is the issue?
>>341650029
shadow sucks.
>>341656673
>In his defense, its a Final Fantasy game. Which usually penalizes you for exploring.
how is that remotely true? there are a ton of optional stuff in the previous games
even if you think the one before "3" is the easy type 2 there are still a lot of option stuff in that game
>>341649847
>Because it was an option and that is enough reason to try it out.
And yet people got stuck at the barrel in Sonic 3, unable to figure out that they have an option to press up and down, to move up and down.
>>341656421
>You know that the point of stupid shit like Excalibur 2 was to make you replay the game right?
No, it was to lock away shit in the players guide. Speedrunning wasn't made popular until well after 2005, and even though it existed in the late 90's, it wasn't really considered a playstyle.
RPGs are meant to be played over a long period of time while enjoying the story, and exploring EVERY single crevice known to man.
Locking away the most powerful sword in the game to people who didn't get there within 12 hours isn't just cryptic, nonsensical bullshit, it actively goes against the gamefeel of exploring a game over a long time. You can spout shit like ADD and multiple playthroughs, but only an ADD addled idiot would try to run through a 200 hour RPG to grab that, but without considering speedrunning as a viable tactic, there's no excuse.
Even approaching it from a "muh replayability!" standpoint, that shit still doesn't fly. Most game developers at the time didn't even consider that shit. One of the biggest offenders of this, Mother 2 and the Sword of Kings, Itoi went on record stating that he only included that to reward diligent and hard workers, and had NOTHING to do with the idea of playing it over again.
tl;dr You're talking from your ass and don't know the first thing about gameplay.
>>341649526
As a kid I always picked the option the cursor doesn't default to. Every time. Sometimes I was rewarded, sometimes I had to repeat a dumb tutorial.
>>341656825
>It's like complaining that the Chris Houlihan room is too hidden
most of those kinds of secrets get a pass because they don't actually effect the game
>Considering them bullshit or neat is a matter of opinion
I agree
>I consider bullshit the ones that are obvious, but your new millenial mind considers those that are hard to find.
okay you're just jerking yourself off now
I know I messed up your name and made you find some useless item. And I took all your tents. Anyway, I'm getting married. So can you find some pudding for me!
>pudding has a 0.4% drop rate from flans
>>341656825
>It's like complaining that the Chris Houlihan room is too hidden
1. That's a valid complaint. Chris Houlihan won a contest, but probably didn't know about it because no one discovered that room (officially) until 10 years after the fact.
2. That room isn't even actually a secret. It's a glitch room that catches you when the game doesn't know where to put you.
>>341649526
I didn't wait
This is literally where I dropped the game and haven't touched it since. To be fair I found it a chore the whole way up to that point as well.
>>341656876
The issue is nobody would ever decide to wait unless they specifically knew that it would result in saving Shadow.
>>341657121
I've played every FF game. FFI has nothing really to find. FFII, you are penalized by ridiculous spawns when you try to explore (I got destroyed by 5 Hill Gigas by trying to walk south of a town instead of directly east to the cave). FF III has little to explore as well, except in the DS version where you have to zoom in on every fucking map to see a little sparkle (who designed this shit?). FFIV has tons of hidden areas and items, but lacks any identifier.
In any case, when it comes to FFVI, there's a few things like the chainsaw behind a wall or the zozo clock. But most of the time, you just get an Imperial guard blocking you from going anywhere besides the one location you need to go to next. Despite having an open world, its not really free to explore.
>>341654239
Bullshit. Ps3 HAS no games
>implying having shadow die at that point doesn't give you a different but still good experience with the game as well
the fuck are you guys on about?
>>341656825
what get's me is any of those games that have a TRUE END path where the methods are so mindbogglingly obtuse there's no way to even know they exist without a guide
and yes Im counting Valkyrie Profile
>>341658007
One of the few flaws of Suikoden II.
>>341657837
If you weren't supposed to wait it wouldn't give you the option.
How is that not a giant red flag. If there was no point in waiting the game would have had you jump automatically.
>>341657307
>No, it was to lock away shit in the players guide
You have a point that some of those secrets were there just to give guides a purpose, but seriously though, most people used to buy guides back then because they got stuck on their first playthrough, not because they wanted to make sure they got everything. Hell, I couldn't care less if I didn't get all espers back in FF6, what was important to me was that I finished the game and that was it.
Every single example you gave was optional shit that, like you stated too, was there to reward "diligent and hard workers". While there were some examples of doing something extremely obscure to reach the "true ending" (which I believe was the real bullshit back then), most of them were optional shit that made your character OP and overall didn't stop you from finishing the game.
Again, games back then didn't have shit to promote replayability, especially RPGs. That's why they relied on secrets. Fuck, they still do that. Dragon's Dogma and Dark Souls blind is a complete different experience than following a guide.
To me it looks like you are saying that games would be better off without secrets and being linear as fuck, with you getting everything possible on the first run. How can you think that?
>>341658176
You're metagaming the plot, but aside from that small point, there's also the fact that whenever you go to do plot-important tasks in the game, the game often asks if you're "ready to do this". So most players who are not naturally includined to Squaresoft bullshit like that would say "Yes, please continue the story as there is nothing I want to go back for", not realizing that wait is actually a story command.
>>341658007
This is the real bullshit of older games, locking "true endings" behind difficult barriers (lol Double Dragon, Streets of Rage, etc) or occult shit
I have no problem with SOTN and the inverted castle stuff, but "Play on a higher difficulty to see the true ending!" pissed me off to no end
>>341658514
>You're metagaming the plot,
Im metagaming the game. Even if not Shadow it's pretty obvious there's something you're supposed to do between the countdown and jumping. Maybe a treasure, maybe a secret enemy, something
>>341658176
Yeah
Just like in case with waterfall, or train, or raft
Game was full of this shit
how were you supposed to know that OP is a faggot
>>341658176
The game gave several options like it earlier in the story, and choosing anything other than the obvious plot progression resulted in absolutely nothing.
>>341657493
>miss one instance of him, he's gone forever
>complete a story segment before talking to him, he's gone forever
Fuck Final Fantasy. Why do they insist on making everything tied to story triggers? Maybe if its an actual story event, that's fine. But why are side quests, with 15 different parts, blocked off by main story events?
>>341659083
Game extenders. They want you to talk to everyone and interact with everything after every time a cutscene happens.
>>341658508
Secrets in a game are one thing, but they should match the tone and feel of a game, and should never be missable unless the item itself can be obtained normally through other means, like missing out on a cure potion, or missing the queue for skip a normal battle, or the first phase of a boss fight.
Second and most importantly, a game requires feedback to let you know when you're doing something that could be a mistake, or at least clues to indicate that the item is there. The Zodiac Spear is a prime example of a mistake. There are, what, I believe 5 or 6 chests in that game that contain normal items? And if you open ANY of them, then you lose out on the best weapon by leaps and bounds? And there are NO clues or indications that this has happened? Who would ever discover that?
THIS is an example of a great secret. It has clues, it's solvable, even if its really hard, and the game gives you indication if you're doing the right thing.
https://youtu.be/JuuzmOXL1bc
Again, stop defending Final Fantasy's bullshit. We don't need that shit in video games.
>>341649526
>meet shadow for the first time with saban
>first random encounter
>throw command
>throw my best weapon at a cat for 6000 damage
if it wasn't so cool at the time I would have been mad
>>341659247
But they discourage that in everything else besides that ONE guy. You can't have 50 NPCs saying nothing and expect the player to keep talking to all NPCs. That's basically telling people to worry that they'll miss something out of fear, not fun.
>>341659405
The entire point of the Zodiac Spear bullshit was a reward for buying the Strategy Guide. It's the only reason people know about not opening those 4 specific chests. IZJS has something even stupider than that in the Seitenheit bow or whatever it was called. To get that you have to take a trip on an airship, find a 100% invisible chest that spawns 1% of the time, don't hit the 80% chance that the chest contains 10 gil. Then you have to have the Diamond Armlet equipped and get the Rare item result from opening the chest, otherwise you get a Knot of Rust. It works out to a 1/10,000 chance of getting this bow which is the strongest weapon in the game.
>>341659405
You just described everything that's wrong with videogames nowdays and even illustrated your poing with a modern game.
>Secrets should never be missable
Seriously? If it's not missable, it's not a secret, it's part of the linear part of the game. Let's get out of FF for a second and go back to A Link to the Past: a lot of the items are completely missable if you are playing the game blindly. You can literally finish the game with a lot of holes on your inventory. There's nothing wrong with making you work for your stuff.
>A game requires feedback to let you know when you're doing something that could be a mistake
Yes, except that missing an optional item/quest/content is not a mistake at all. Did you require the Zodiac Spear to finish the game? Hell, if you were playing without a guide, you wouldn't even know it existed. Excalibur 2, Knights of the Round, that fucking weapon that you're supposed to get while climbing the shinra building that I forgot the name because I missed it, etc all that shit is optional. You're supposed to feel good when you find it because you're not supposed to find it. It's a secret. That's what they are for.
You're asking that the game hold your hand and guides you to everything it has and that's horrible. You must hate La Mulana.
And I couldn't care less about FF, it's not even my fav series, just stating that every game back then used to have that kind of shit
>>341660373
Who in their right mind think these are good mechanics? They're shit even in MMOs. Let alone a single player game.
>>341652403
WAIT WHAT???!!!! What information do you get for pick pocketing him?
>>341660520
>go back to A Link to the Past: a lot of the items are completely missable
Objectively wrong. There is literally not a single treasure chest in the ent-Are you trolling me?
Oh man, I got trolled, didn't I? Is that a camera?
Oh shit! Hi mom!seriously though just kill yourself, you're not even fun to respond to anymore.
Did someone say missables?
>Tsunami Augment
>How to Obtain: After you defeat Cagnazzo, return to B3 of the ancient
waterway. Go to the central room with the treasure chest. There should be a
sparkling spot behind the chest. Press A while facing it.
There's really no justifying this shit. Its tucked into a secret room of a dungeon you'll never need to go to again. Its literally something you'd only get with a strategy guide. And that in and of itself isn't bad, except you need tons of augments because you need to put two augments on every character to get OTHER augments later in the game.
FF just sucks at these things.
>>341660989
>typical 2000s kid response
You could've gave up your shitty points before I typed all that shit though. Enjoy your dumbed down games
This whole thread is the reason why games are casual bullshit these days.
everything must be spoon fed to the player or it's an endless temper tantrum of neckbeards complaining about mechanics
>it's bad game design
you're a badly designed person.
>>341661371
Nah. Kill yourself.
>play as claude
>can never obtain Dias
>>341659405
>All this effort for a fucking camo
I don't think they could have made a more disappointing reward.
>>341661417
Guys like you are why we can't have decent discussions on the internet these days.
You criticize people with opinions, then claim their facts. Because you know that you have no way to back up an opinion.
>>341661752
You mean like MGS where the reward for being able undetectable for the whole game is an item that makes you undetectable
>>341661132
SO2 wasn't THAT bad, was it? I mean, yeah, you could miss Ashton pretty easily... and Opera, I guess, which means Ernest too... and I guess you could fuck up and miss Claude's ultimate weapon pretty easily, too...
>>341661586
That's why I always play Rena, Leon just can't compare to Dias.
>>341661586
Dias cucked Claude in Rena route
>>341661915
>spend forever grinding enemies to max out level
>reward: no random encounters
>>341661812
>Decent discussion on /v/
So, did you join this year or did you come with the GG bandwagon like most people in this thread?
Not that guy btw
>>341661996
maybe when you played it.in my games Claude always runs off with Dias.
>>341662127
>100% the game
>Your reward is a gun that one shots everything
>The only thing to use it on is bandits that were never an issue to begin with
>No NG+
>>341661996
But aren't they brother and sister?
>>341663440
Rena isn't his blood sister, she was best friends with his real little sister so she just called him brother too.
I watched the Star Ocean EX anime. And it honestly soured me on playing the games. Well that and the god awful dub voices in English.
>>341654836
>that story
>>341663957
didn't the EX anime end at disc 1? it was so shit they didn't even finish the whole game.
>>341664143
>Whited areas
This triggers me.
by reading a manual OP, FF1 had guide, and I don't know about everyone else but I printed off a full guide off gamefaqs for 5 and 6.
else how the hell are you supposed to know 3 of gau's blue magics are technically locked and unavaliable, that leveling up screws your stats if you do it before you can boost them with summons, that if you wait long enough sabin tells you the blitz commands in that one battle, that you can't 100% 6 in one run because of ragnarock.
that relm can literally hack the game inside out.
getting shadow back isn't even the hard part, its getting locke back so you can steal without triggering bosses you want to steal from.
How were you supposed to know you need to wait three mins at the waterfall?
>>341657262
I just thought I had to time my jumps correctly, I expected the game to be more difficult than what it actually was
>>341649990
I didn't know ;_;
How were you supposed to know you could sneak past the guard to get upstairs?
>>341664457
Someone told me it ended at the 1/3 mark of the story. Which is probably why it ended with such a strange 'let's continue our adventure' ending. But I never played the game to verify.
>mfw Star Ocean 2, Tales and even fucking Fire Emblem get anime
>suikoden doesn't
>>341665473
fuck off Dishonored playtester
How were you supposed to know you could save Paul?
>FINAL FANTASY X
>LAST CLOYSTER IN WHICH YOU OBTAIN BAHAMUT
>IF YOU DON'T PUT THE EXTRA SPHERE IN THE MOVING STATUE YOU MISS OUT ON ANIMA AND MAGUS SISTERS
>>341665668
Literally how were you supposed to know you could save Smuggler?
>>341665504
I can't find a list of episodes but it sounds like they didn't even get to Nede, so anyone who only watched the anime never even found out why all that sorcery globe shit was happening.
I really love SO2 but it's not really a game you play for the plot. The gameplay is fun and I liked the characters and their interactions, but the dialogue was pretty cheesy. Later games really kept up that good gameplay-cheesy plot tradition, I think.
>>341663440
no he is just her onii chan who she wants to ride all night
How were you supposed to know that you had to talk to some guy in the first town's pub near the end of the game, when most NPCs don't change their dialogue throughout the whole game, to get a key item that you have to use in an arbitrary order on a stone circle you encountered 30 hours earlier in the game in order to get a pretty okay accessory for the MC?
Not even going to lie, me and my friend found it on accident. We just wanted to wait until the last second to jump to make it all dramatic for us. We got lucky, but you're right, it's some bullshit.
>>341666024
Its impossible to complete that temple without using the destruction sphere.
>>341666168
What game?
>>341661206
Wow, I never even realized that you could go back there. That's just ridiculous.
>>341666024
This is wrong. You cannot miss the Cloister treasure in Bevelle. You HAVE to get it to finish the dungeon, the extra treasure in that temple is just an extra weapon, not required for anything.
>>341666318
Wild Arms
The real bullshit is getting into the secret dungeon. You actually have to leave the final dungeon halfway through since you don't get the item that lets you access it until then.
>>341653663
>Cid sacrifices himself by JUMPING INTO AN ACTIVE VOLCANO WHILE STRAPPED TO A MASSIVE BOMB BIG ENOUGH TO COMPLETELY DESTROY THE ENTIRE MOUNTAIN
>'tis but a scratch
This game really is pretty retarded sometimes.
>>341652889
Are... are you clinically retarded? Please tell me you're just baiting.
>>341650338
>How were we suppose to know to Steal from Rubacante to keep him from opening his cloak?
I'm playing through the FFIV right now, I just powered through him. I still don't know what stealing does.
I'm not looking forward to playing through the rest of the series.
>>341666550
tri-Ace did that bullshit in their games, too. there's been a lot of Star Ocean talk in this thread but it's true in those games, too, and i think the Valkyrie Profile series. the secret dungeon didn't unlock in SO2 unless you saved at the final save point first, right at the final boss, then you had to walk ALL the way back out. there weren't any short cuts or escape items in that game.
>>341666659
Ha! Nothing can stop ol' Cid!
...but seriously, I'm near death. So go on without me.
>>341666830
>I still don't know what stealing does.
Steals items? Always annoys me since you basically HAVE to bring someone with Steal to every boss fight since in a lot of the games you can steal rare or permanently missable shit from a lot of bosses, but it always feels like a total crapshoot.
>>341666281
i swear i didnt and when I looked it up on >gamefaqs it was confirmed by others that it's because I had missed that that i could not access Anima
>>341666859
There was an escape spell in Wild Arms but to get to the final dungeon you had to walk all the way through another very long dungeon, with no shortcuts. And the final dungeon itself was pretty damn long too.
>>341666830
So many people didn't figure this out. I almost feel accomplished for figuring it out myself. But that doesn't mean I won't admit its a shit mechanic.
Also, don't cut yourself....on that Edge.
>>341651659
>But then, this is the same game which throws you back to the title screen if you die
You mean, there are people underage enough around here to not know this is a JRPG standard?
>>341651295
The plot and battle mechanics were simply amazing
>>341667191
Dragon Quest created JRPGs. And it doesn't throw you back to the title screen. It sends you back to the save point with half your gold, but all EXP and items intact. The fact that not only the first FF game, but all the way up to fucking FFXIII did this is just sad. But then, this is a series that didn't even figure out warp points until FFXII. Let alone using a skill lie Zoom.
>>341666830
10 is the best, with 9 having a few good features. Rest is shit, not even worth playing through.
>>341666830
>>341667152
I don't see why you wouldn't at least try stealing from the boss.
How was I supposed to know killing people is bad?
>>341667462
>Dragon Quest created JRPGs. And it doesn't throw you back to the title screen. It sends you back to the save point with half your gold, but all EXP and items intact.
yeah that was bullshit. Money is such a nothing thing to get it's just a slap on the wrist for dying
>>341667826
>>>/tumblr/
>>341667140
did Wild Arms at least tell you where the secret dungeon was, or give a hint? in SO2 you have to leave the final dungeon, go back through a town, go to ANOTHER town, speak to a specific NPCpenguinthat wasn't there before and insult it, which would kick you back to the first world in the game, and you then had to find the secret dungeon on the map yourself with your new second-world ability to fly around.
>>341653663
None of the characters were exceptionally likeable either, I felt nothing when any of them died.
What went through my head when Tellah died was not "Oh noes Tellah I'll miss you ;_;" it was more along the lines of "Well now I don't have any black magic goddamnit."
>>341667615
That's a turn I can spend stabbing the boss instead of trying a mechanic that may or may not work the way I want it too.
I can afford to dick around with mages since they're not doing anything half the time, but warriors are a different story.
>>341667867
Losing half your dosh in DQ is a pain since you seriously earn it way slower than EXP
If you're actually buying equipment in each town you come across (which you should, since Dragon Quest does a lot less of "Find the shit you just bought in the next cave" than a lot of JRPGs) then you need all the cash you can get.
Plus you need a ton if you're crazy enough to do the casino without savescumming.
>>341667140
>but to get to the final dungeon you had to walk all the way through another very long dungeon, with no shortcuts. And the final dungeon itself was pretty damn long too.
What? No you fucking don't. All you have to do is punch the Elw teleporter a shit ton of times and have the worst luck
>>341668194
The way DQ handles money is probably the only good thing abut the series, but it really is good for this type of game progression. Money actually feels important and limited, and yet not so important and limited that you'd compulsively restart from the last save instead of continuing with the death penalty.
>>341668541
Luckily there's usually an area with lots of Gold Golems somewhere past the halfway point of most games
>>341667867
>Money is such a nothing thing to get
>Dragon Quest
About the only games this applies to is DQIV and V. And even then, you later run into casinos where the more money you have, the higher priced slot machine you can play on.
In DQI or II, losing half your money was a bitch. Gaining 200 gold a battle, and you need to buy an armor for 9800 gold.
>>341650338
>How were we suppose to know that doing a one time event gave us Jecht Shot?
You can go back later and re-do it, the blitzball will appear again on the boat.
Honestly this is not only in final fantasy its pretty common in most JRPGs. Another good one from Square was the the Slayer Robe in Xenogears. You could only get it by beating a boss which appeared to be an unwinnable cutscene boss that required prior preparation with certain gear you could not go back and get at that point in the game. Not only that but you had to beat it while equpping the traders card which you only get could from a boss fight which could also optionally be won.
>>341650749
I literally finished the entire fucking game and never got Curaga. I was pretty irritated when I found out years later where to get it after beating the game with only Cura.
>>341650338
>ff9
>Steiner has a skill called minus strike
>'wtf this is useless all the time'
>it's true damage
>its purpose is to kill a hidden boss on disc 2
>don't realize this until the end of disc 2
>>341654318
Yeah I'm sure Sephiroth wanting to drop a gigantic meteor on the planet had nothing to do with anything.
>>341668976
>Actually getting rustled about a comic
just, eat a dick.
>>341654318
but what does pacman have to do with final fantasy?
>>341650338
>How are we suppose to know to take items off of Aeris before she died?
But you get the items back anyway so it doesn't matter.
You're right about everything else though.
>>341650338
Final fantasy 8 was the absolute worst when it came to this. How the hell were you supposed to know how to do anything in that game. I had to cheese it all by putting triples into my attacks so I could do 9999 before the end of the first disc.
>>341668028
There were hints. I forget the exact method but basically you have to fuck with the teleporters that you had to use to get around before you got your boat or plane to get them to teleport you to the Abyss.
>>341668409
I was talking about getting back to the normal final dungeon, not the Abyss.
>>341668815
>You can go back later and re-do it, the blitzball will appear again on the boat.
As long as you did that event before the fight with Sin on the beach. Story arbitrarily once again keeps you from backtracking in a FF game. and with no warning.
>>341668845
what are you even talking about, Tantarian? you can fight him on disc 3, too. plus you don't have to use Minus Strike at all, you can just keep attacking him and eventually the little fucker will pop out of his book.
>>341669274
its actually one of the most lenient. It even tells you about stealing GFs from enemies. Provided you read the computer or did the SeeD exams (which obviously few people did). Most of the other hidden stuff are found through exploration. But since FF often has no exploration, I can understand why people didn't find Brothers or Odin.
>>341650338
>How were we suppose to know to steal GFs from bosses without compulsively trying draw on every boss?
Isn't it pretty normal to check what kind of magic you can draw from a boss? Especially when you know that there's a possibility that there might be a GF.
>>341649526
>not having the official strategy guide
i bet you were stupid enought to take the ultima magicite instead of the sword
>>341651659
>As if they're doing it on purpose
They are (did) doing it on purpose. It's to add tension to the scene.
>>341649526
You weren't, it was a secret. A good secret.
One that's based in emotion.
Something normally didn't exist in games at that time and went against video game logic.
On the other hand, the way to get shadow back is utterly stupid. What a waste of a great idea by making the way to rerecruit him so soulless.
>>341653663
>Esuna doesn't work on those twins who petrify themselves... until later
>>341669274
>Unlocking Doomtrain
Like they give you clues here and there but holy fuck is it cryptic as hell. If I recall some of the Occult magazines with the clues are permanently missable.
Also in FF7
>Aeris's Great Gospel
Just copy and pasting from FF wiki
>Great Gospel is Aeris's ultimate Limit Break. The player can begin the search its manual after acquiring the buggy, as driving it into the Costa del Sol allows passage aboard the cargo ship to Junon. In the north of the Junon area there is a cave past the shallows where a sleeping man will give the player the Mythril item if the total number of battles fought ends in two matching odd numbers or zeros; e.g. 11, 133, 255, 1077, 699, 200.
>After the events in Rocket Town the Mythril can be taken to the man in the cabin between the Gold Saucer and Gongaga village and opening the smaller box located on the upper floor nets the Great Gospel item. Until the player receives the Tiny Bronco, the blacksmith's house will be empty, and Cloud is immediately returned to the field screen after entering.
How in the actual fuck were you supposed to figure that out? Thats not even mentioning the effort it takes to even give the limit break to her before she leaves the party for good.
>>341650338
>not drawing from bosses anyways because they often had strong magic or magic you couldn't get easily at that point.
>huh I wonder what Siren is?
You also get a second chance at all the missable GF's by drawing them from bosses in Ultimecia's castle.
>>341671425
Oh those shits are a whole can of worms on it's own.
>the walls start closing in
>the two twins figure out the same plan at the same time
>they both use a spell that requires a level way above their ability
>one of them doesn't even know the right school of magic
>both of them, despite being fucking five, are both completely okay with the idea of sacrificing themselves without questions for a greater good
>>341672331
how do you know they didn't just use twin magic?
check & mate
>>341672331
How come Cecil didn't know about the wall death trap and he lived in the castle his whole life?
>>341672428
Because twin magic takes two fucking centuries to work. If I could cast meteor in the time it took those fuckers to cast break, I might've gave a shit when they died.
