Reminder that Steam tried to sell mods that were buggy and incomplete - and PC gamers (specifically Valve fans, but whats the difference?) tried to defend this.
>>341527321
People also defended Hitler. By your logic youre a Nazi.
Fuck off Nazi.
It's a
>This meme again
Thread
>>341527321
PC gamers were overwhelmingly against paid mods but ok.
>>3415273
bait
>>341527321
Nobody defended this. Everybody exploited it for the Pennies they could suck out it until it eventually backfired.
>>341527321
No, they didn't. Not even reddit did.
>>341527321
>PC gamers (specifically Valve fans, but whats the difference?) tried to defend this.
Why did it get scrapped then?
Not even coherent shitposting
>>341527321
At least dota 2 custom games made the "paid mods" system really well
>>341527321
>>341527437
>>341527459
>>341527509
>>341527568
>>341527704
>>341527709
>>341527740
There is nothing wrong with paid mods you fucking communists. Go vote for Bernie OH WAIT
>>341527437
Hitler was a genuinely cool guy. He was an amazing leader, a committed environmentalist (he made progressive laws defending animals, also cared about overpopulation), and was defending the world from communism. What's not to like?
>>341527321
really sad that theres tons of cucks that work for free
>>341527321
Not even the Free Software Foundation is much that against paid software.
It doesn't really make sense for /v/ to be against paid mods either, as it would reduce the number of cheap cash in indie games. Less skilled developers would be able to earn money off of mods for more established games which would make them less likely to attempt to make their own game which would stand a higher likely hood of being buggy and incomplete.
Haha, I remember that there was no way to actually get the Shadowscale Armor in game either. You had to enter a console command.
Someone brought up an interesting tidbit at the time. There was a really shitty paid mod where the plot of a quest riddled with spelling errors made a lot of references to specific times of day and the phrase "stroke of the clock" came up a lot, even though there are no clocks in Skyrim.
That's why modders by and large don't deserve to be paid. They don't understand game design
>>341527842
Frog posters.
Almost as cancerous as Wojak posters.
>>341528091
t. proud socialist nu-male
>>341527842
what?
do memejis actually work again?
testing
>>341527842
Please kill you're self
They will try again. My guess is the idea came from the console companies because it would make it easier to implement mods if they cost money. Gabe Newell was just enough of a greedy heeb to go along with it.
>>341528164
Scratch that. Just as bad.
Throwing around political bullshit and accusing people of bullshit because you have actually nothing to back yourself up on.
>>341528414
>>341528414
that's /pol/ for you
Reminder that Gaben is not your friend and never was
>Valve Approaches Bethesda about the idea
>Its horrible and there is backlash
>Valve wants to keep going Bethesda stops
>Bethesda goes full based and stops using the Workshop and moves all there shit to there own buggy site
I mean, on one hand the new site is awful but on the other they saw the writing on the wall about paid modding coming back and got outta there before it did damage to there name.
>Todd gets 40% of the dollar (FOR DOING ABSOLUTELY NOTHING)
>Gaben gets his standard cut of 30% merchant processing fee (actually the most reasonable fee)
>Modder gets to keep a measly 30% of the profit his hard work made
And then Todd said that it's to "Support the Modders"
>>341528402
The history of PC gaming is about mod developers figuring out how to make money off of them. A lot of Valve's games for instance started as mods whose authors got hired by Valve. Its obvious why they would want to make it possible for mod developers to support themselves off their work.
>>341527437
>responsible for the single largest economic turn around in the history of the world
>all despite a worldwide global depression and the double whammy of the bullshit Treaty of Versailles
Not exactly hard to defend him.
>>341528554
:(
one day we will kill them all, adolf. just wait.
>>341528640
Don't forget you needed something like $200 in the bank before you can even cash the check. So if your mod sold under that, valve and beth keep it all.
>>341528823
And then those big names devised a plan to take modder's work and make money off with. Without all that nasty "paying them for it" work.
>>341529012
Until he got all those people killed and then let the Russians cuck Germany
>>341529012
that myth has been debunked several times
>>341528638
Not think about that again.
This tame switch valve and Bethesda.
Now Bethesda looks like a jew for having the paid mods thing call through and is not trying to incorporate it with Fallout 4 and Skyrim remastered but are now too afraid of the backlash to go along with it.
>>341529012
disproven by real historians, lel
go back to your safe space
>>341528823
>make it possible for mod developers to support themselves off their work.
Not really, taking into account that both Valve and Bethesda took about 70% or so of the profits
>>341528823
They should just have made a more proper mod sponsor system were you can put forward mod content to be officially licensed, but that would mean a market with quality control that also has to exist besides existing mods.
Fans making home brew dlc that would actually work with other dlc isn't feasible, half of the mods out there require other scripts and mods to work, and they break given slight variations on the update you're on, or other mods and dlc you have put in the game.
Aside from all that, considering how slow and shit steam customer support is (with no phone number I might add) there is no fucking way valve would spend their precious money to hire QA people to properly manage a community mode store.
And, how do you even manage the whole aspect of mods needing other mods to function?
Would valve take down a mod it uses stuff other people made without permission?
Ultimately the only reason they tried to dip their feat in this was because mods are a massive content pool that could potentially mean dlc that makes itself and a free slice of money.
>>341529218
All of it got turned into steambuxs. The only possible way to clear more then what you were getting by assumption of base living cost you would have needed to sell almost $2400 in mods. There was absolutely no legal way of selling mods that relied on SKSE, FNIS, Bash Patches all of those mods would have to be pruned, didn't stop people from trying like Chesko with Frostfall. No quality control.
>>341527842
>make a mod that turns Blackreach and all Dwemer ruins to look more like the Morrowind versions
>charge 5$ for it
>have to make a certain amount from it or I don't get paid at all
>i do
>valve and beth take most of it
>feel like im being used
>fans now hate me
>i now hate valve/beth
>lose all will to continue modding
>>341529542
>disproven by historians
[citation needed]
>>341529570
Considering how much developers usually make on projects working for another company with their IP that's actually pretty awesome. If you go to work for a company as a dev I can guarantee you you'll be making no where near 30% or even 10% of the gross income.
>>341527437
>comparing our savior Hitler to Valve
>>341527321
I made 100k on a re textured sword with boosted stats.
>>341529695
If mods use things from other mods they should ensure that those mods include software licenses that allow them to be used or re-packaged. All these legal issues have been sorted out already over the last few decades of community developed software.
>>341529891
A single mod doesn't have the same scope or revenue as a full game, the comparison is not really applicable in this case
>>341529891
The difference is you're paid based on time investment on a corporate standard based around your education.
In this scenario all the mods being sold are less then $1 and you gotta sell over 2000 copies a month to make any kind of "living" if you consider living on microwave burritos good.
>PC gamers (specifically Valve fans, but whats the difference?) tried to defend this
Except it got shut down after five days and even Reddit of all things manage to beat down Gabe.
>>341529542
Real historian here.
The German industrial output was second before the war. Trailing only the US and beating the emerging Soviet Union.
Whether you like Hitler or not, he did a miracle with turning out that shitty German economy.
>>341530261
That depends greatly on the mod. A lot more people are going to be encouraged to make larger total conversion mods for games if they can make money off of them instead of trying to build a whole indie game from the ground up.
People trying to charge $5 for horse armor or a single model will get ignored because free equivalent mods are so easy to produce the same way that the vast majority of shitty indie games get ignored now because they aren't doing anything new or different.
>>341527321
holy shit it's reaper
>>341530313
>The difference is you're paid based on time investment on a corporate standard based around your education.
Ha, nobody outside of schools will actually pay you more based on your education. In the corporate world your only paths to make more money are either having technical skills that are in demand, or working your way up the administrative ladder.
You think McDonalds will pay you more to flip hamburgers just because you have a doctorate of philosophy?
>>341530705
no dude he just stole it from africans and did you know hitler was a child molest, worshiped the devil, half jewish, had one testicle, did meth, raped his niece, and beat his dogs
he also had a limp deformed dick and pissed into a bag he kept tied to his leg oh and his art was shit
>>341530781
Note what happens if the mod breaks due to a game update? Does it remain on the store forever or will everyone that have bought it very a refund? It's a nightmare for this reason alone, not to mention every other way paid modding is shit.
>>341530705
Of course a lot of it was accomplished on the backs of exploiting German citizens getting them to invest in projects like the Beetle that Hitler had no intention of finishing before starting his war, diverting those funds towards military projects. The war would ultimately see the destruction of his economic 'miracle' along with Germany.
>>341527321
That fucking post cracks me up still.
>INTRODUCING.. PAYING FOR THINGS THAT YOU'VE BEEN GETTING FOR FREE FOR DECADES
Like, why try to dress it up?
I can't believe that was actually real at one point.
That's not how you entice customers, I tell you what
>>341530781
> A lot more people are going to be encouraged to make larger total conversion mods for games
Total Conversions generally require a lot of work and time dealing with the target game's limitations, the availability and ease of use of Unreal/Unity makes TC mods seem less desirable in comparison to a unique game
>>341531526
What happens now with a game if it stops working after a Windows update? None of these are new issues.
>>341531804
What is compatibility mode or using a previous version of Windows? Most games don't offer downloads of previous versions of the game.
>Valve and Bethesda combined receive 70% of profit the modders make
>Damage control claim it's to help modders get compensated
>1 year after the debacle
>They haven't put in a "Donate" system so players have the option to give modders money and keep all that is donated to them
They would rather let modders get nothing if it means they can't get a share and that's hilarious in a very sad way.
>>341529430
really makes you think...
They are going to try this again with the skyrim special edition
>>341527321
There is nothing inherently wrong with selling mods. The problem was entirely one of quality control.
After using a fair few Skyrim mods, I will say this though. Not one was worth paying for. Most of them introduce so much bugs and crashes to the game it's a lesson in fucking frustration to even bother using them.
>>341527842
>>341532725
>The problem was entirely one of quality control.
Not to mention rights, content stealing or unfair payment
>>341532725
While I understand where the people who thought the idea behind paid mods was a fine one are coming from I feel like I have to remind them that Bethesda would receive 40% and Valve would receive 30% of any money the modders make.
They get only pennies out of the deal and aren't really compensated. In the end it was just a way for Valve and Bethesda to abuse the modding community.
>>341532553
Good luck console mods are already a clusterfuck.
>>341533004
I'm just grouping that under quality control.
Problem was Valve just let people do whatever they want and it resulted in lots of shit that wasn't acceptable.
>>341533136
30% is the industry standard fee when selling goods using their service. Everyone pays that 30% on Steam (excluding huge publishers with negotiating power).
Bethesdas 40% is a bit more iffy, but if you use any kind of engine or program that lets you develop software or games, you have to pay for it and/or give royalties.
If you want to use Unity to sell games for example, you pay them a hefty up front fee or a subscription every month.
While the unreal engine costs you a small subscription fee plus a 5% cut of any sales.
40% is way too much, but royalties are a standard thing.
>>341533667
I understand that 30% is the "standered" fee for Steam but the fact that it's standered to begin with no negotiations for all sales is highly unfair. This isn't a whole game we're talking about, it's a small modification in a preexisting game priced for no more then 4 bucks maybe. Treating every deal as if your vending a game is insane.
And like you yourself said Bethesda receiving 40% even if it is for using their engine is an extremely high price.
Plus I still don't see why if they truly want modders to be incentivised they can't allow for a donation system.
>>341527437
Do you know the popular saying, "Hitler did nothing wrong"?
Do you know where that comes from? Adolph Hitler. Yes, the leader of the Nazis.
>>341534738
It's not just standard on Steam. It's standard pretty much everywhere. Whether you're trying to sell a game, movie, book or some other good on a website like Amazon. The fee is generally 30%.
>>341527321
Oh boy I sure do love sweeping generalizations used to instill reaction!
>>341529012
All at the cost of Germany's pride and dignity. Now they're letting a million third-worlders in a year and will be exterminated.
>>341527321
Again? I saw this thread a few days ago.
Why are you spamming lies?
Does this count as a flame-baiting thread?
Can we report this?
>>341534913
Well fuck me, vendors are a bitch.
$15 pls
>>341535436
>colour swaps
Actual example would be substituting the "stars" model with a miniature mountain model
>>341532450
>They haven't put in a "Donate" system so players have the option to give modders money and keep all that is donated to them
Because without a deal with the owner of the IP that's illegal, and even if it wasn't credit card processing isn't free. There's a reason why literally every online store's cut is 30% because there are a lot of fees that have to come out of it.
I did and still defend this. You aren't forced to buy incomplete mods. That was your choice. If companies allow it, and if people want to get paid for their work, people absolutely should be allowed to sell mods.
>>341532809
No, its more like asking for permission to make copies and then make edits and sell that edited parts, the creator saying yes, and then the modder taking a copy while the original is still there makes edits and tries to sell that edit. Which is perfectly acceptable. Shitty MS paint comic.
STOP REPLYING TO PASTA AND POST YOUR FAVORITE VIDEO GAME LEVEL OF ALL TIME
>>341527321
Fucking mods. I already reported this thread and you fags are not deleting this flamebait thread.
>>341537196
The vast, VAST majority of people who believe this aren't modders.
They're capitalist schmucks that don't have much contact with the modding community.
We do our shit for free, as a hobby, for our own benefit and that of other players & modders. That's how we operate & cooperate, and letting moneygrubbers set up shop in our midst only hurts us and the people who consume our mods.
This move isn't pro-modder or pro-consumer, it's pro-middle-man.
Stop talking about shit you don't know anything about.
>>341537407
>asking for permission
There were SEVERAL examples of paid mods up that did NOT ask permission from the other mods they used components from.
Valve already has a poor track record of this sort of thing, what with them selling a wholeslae plagiarized weapon in DotAII for quite some time before a user (not one of Valve's people) brought it to their attention, and that was when every single item had to be vetted by Valve's staff before it was added. If any Tom, Dick, or Harry could toss up whatever they wanted whenever they wanted, Valve would never be able to catch all the plagiarism, and their nonexistent customer service means that the victim would be left with nearly no recourse. Paid mods should be off the table until Valve shows some level of competency with that sort of thing.
>>341538342
Easy solution. Put your mod under a license that allows it to be re-used or redistributed by others, but that prevents commercial exploitation.
>>341538342
You're just saying that "its always been like this, so this is how it should be."
You use the term "we" but what you really mean is "you". Why does it matter if people have been doing this for free? How is it bad for modders and hurts modders for some people to sell their mods? What's so wrong with someone wanting money for their work?
>PC gamers (specifically Valve fans, but whats the difference?) tried to defend this.
Literally nobody defended this.
>>341527321
I'm a PC gamer and I fucking hate Valve with a passion unrivaled even by my hatred for EA. Don't lump us all into the same boat fuckwad.
https://boards.fireden.net/v/search/text/Reminder%20that%20Steam%20tried%20to%20sell%20mods%20that%20were%20buggy%20and%20incomplete/image/EuDx-Xg7vFzZa266oGgqaw/type/op/
Report and move on
>>341527321
People also defend dlc.
>>341527321
they sell buggy incomplete games too
some of them are really awesome
im sorry you are a filthy casual who has to be told what a quality product is
>>341539335
Just because it's pasta doesn't mean it can't spark actual discussion. Things are only echo chambers because you let them be.
I hate paid mods on moral grounds and "I want things for free" grounds, but if Valve were to fix issues of plagiarism and quality control, I can't think of a legitimate, logical counter argument to paid mods. The only arguments I can think of are based on what ifs and slippery slopes. Give me some real reasons.
>>341539701
Reposting and sparking flame wars are both against the rules
>>341539701
https://boards.fireden.net/v/search/text/scramble%20to%20defend%20this%20one/
It's very clear that OP keeps reposting this to start shit
>>341536910
There, happy?
I put way too much effort into this just to make a point.
>>341532450
I recall they were also wordfiltering links to patreon/paypal accounts if the modder placed them anywhere on his post/profile.
>if you really want to donate money for this mod, you can donate directly to me through HOTPOCKES
>>341539701
The only thing I can think of is that it would encourage devs to purposefully leave features out or in a shit state so that modders will fix it and the dev can get bonus money for doing less/no work.
This falls mostly under a what if though.
Oh, also it makes it harder to collab modpacks, there's no guarantee that a mod will work with the current version of the game, and no indication of two different mods work together until after you buy them.
I've got a few friends in the industry and all of them unflinchingly supported paid mods.
I blame gamers for being entitled shits as always.
>>341540319
>there's no guarantee that a mod will work with the current version of the game, and no indication of two different mods work together until after you buy them.
That's solved by offering refunds within X amount of time, which Valve did. It is a bit tougher if a game update breaks a mod you bought and have owned/played for past the refund deadline, though. Will mod makers be held accountable to fix it, or are people just out all that money?
The first point is absolutely the biggest argument against paid mods, but it's entirely a slippery slope argument is my problem. Granted, the unofficial Skyrim patch is number 11 on most downloaded at Nexus, so it might not be a slippery slope at this point. But then there's the argument "well, they release buggy games anyway, so this won't actually affect that."
>>341527321
Does anyone have the .esp for this armor? Been looking for a while.
>>341538798
It's difficult to explain, but putting up your work for free has been the bedrock of the community.
It set up a good relationship between the modding community and the developers- the latter putting out good tools the players could use to improve their experience, the former giving away their products as free bug-fixing/game-improvement & an advertising feature for the developers.
It set up a good relationship between modders & other players. Making & releasing a mod was a charitable act, with no guarantee or expectation of quality. Other players could take'm or leave'm at their own risk & whim.
It encouraged cooperation- since everyone's giving away the fruits of their labor, there's no competition and everyone's in it for the same goal- improving the game. Doing shit like incorporating or changing other mods & re-releasing them was as simple as asking for permission first. Shit, the other modder is usually willing to answer questions and offer helpful advice.
And it set the stage for the community’s attitude towards those who demanded to be paid, (which there were a few of).
They were greedy fucks no one got along with. They didn’t cooperate, didn’t share, they weren’t in it for other people like everyone else. They were in it for themselves, and if anyone wanted to enjoy their work they had to cough up money. Fuck those guys.
(cont)
There was literally nothing wrong with paid mods. What was wrong is how big of a cut Bethesda and Valve were taking.
Some of you shitstains here I'm pretty sure spent money on shit like Batman DLC. Why not spend the same amount of money on a high quality mod that has probably three times the amount of content?
Anyone who is against paid mods is literally one of those cybercommies who think everything on the internet should be free. I think every communist piece of shit should be burned alive.
obviously not that many people defended it, since it was gone within a week
>>341527321
Entire PC community pushed back. Console community will lay back and justify spending money on mods
>>341542972
because there is no quality control with mods, unlike official DLC
>>341543329
This. A lot of mods even conflict with each other as well
>>341540146
>way too much effort
I once spent 15 minutes in paint to recreate a scene from the amazing world of gumball, with a couple of attempts of humor in it.
Anyway, enjoy losing your fanbase because everyone hates you since you removed it from the nexus and reuploaded it on steam.
>>341543329
Can't refute that, this is probably the only legitimate issue with paid mods. But with a refund function it could be alleviated a bit, something like you have two hours from the time of purchase to refund.
>>341527842
Sorry turbonerd, but even in free market societies rent-seeking is generally looked down upon.
>>341544190
YOU ENJOYED MY WORK.
$15 PLS
The only time I would ever pay for a mod is if I'm desperate for a certain item/location, etc. and paid someone to make it for me
Paid mods can work, but they require so much curation that you might as well sell them as official DLC at that point
Like some expansion packs were sold as in the past
>>341544376
There we go anon.
Oh, wait a minute, what is this?
>>341544238
>this is probably the only legitimate issue with paid mods
There's more
>>341542746
Introducing the profit motive fucks ALL of that up.
The developers are now acting as middle-men and taking as big a slice of the pie as they feel they can get away with. No one likes that, it brews resentment. And instead of modding tools being a win-win ‘throw the players a bone’ move, it’s now a cash-grab aimed at outsourcing their DLC crew & raking in more profits from their community at a minimum cost. Gee thanks Bethesda, what next, are you going to sell licenses to use it?
It fucks up the relationship between modders & other players- there’s now an expectation of quality & support.
Modders aren’t just charitable players who decided to pick up the tools and give away what they make- they’re peddlers of goods. They don’t deserve good will or patience, they aren’t really players anymore. For all we know, they never were- many would be people who picked up the tools & started cranking out shitty textures without ever playing the game.
It shuts down cooperation. Everyone has to jealously guard their products, lest they be slightly-modified and resold. No one wants to help their competition, no one wants to give away trade secrets.
So if you want to rebalance a mod or make an overhaul you have to do that shit yourself and then keep it to yourself.
Can you imagine the shit-show IP rights would make of modding sites?
And then when it comes to greedy fucks, just trying to introduce this fucked up the modding community. Long-established modders, some of which very well-known, broke the taboo and started developing for cash. Shit, some went full-jew and put ads in their old free mods, or withdrew them altogether.
And everyone fucking HATED them for that, rightly so, because it was a betrayal.
Look up ‘Wrye Cathedral vs Parlor’, he explained it well back for morrowind.
[cont]
>>341529012
>double whammy of the bullshit Treaty of Versailles
You mean how easy and light it was on the German people?
>>341544238
Oh yes I'm certain a refund function will work out just fine, the same way the refund function on steam works.
>>341527842
>people who don't want paid mods are bernie voters
go fuck yourself, how about that.
>>341545796
And lastly it fucks up the motivational scheme.
People make mods to fix their own game. To increase their own enjoyment of it. They aren’t trying to get the most cash possible for the least effort required- they’re pouring in however much effort it takes to make the best product they can.
Because they’ll be using it themselves.
Profit-based mods will be cheap shit that appeal to the lowest common denominator and which try to exploit whatever system they’re housed in for the biggest profit they can muster.
Hobbyist mods on the other hand are works of fucking love & art, even if the artists aren’t professional-grade.
If you want modders to be rewarded, give them donations.
If you want to just throw your money at Valve & Bethesda, PLEASE find another way that doesn't uproot the whole fucking system.
>>341527509
Most modders were against it as well.
>>341542663
You don't want it.
It was a single-piece head armor without a female version which fucking CLIPPED with some poses.
The quality of the paid mods were almost-universally atrocious.
http://imgur.com/gallery/bqcla
>>341538767
That needs enforcement anon.
Hobbyists want to spend their time modding the game, not chasing down infringers, filling out legal paperwork and playing chicken with court-dates.
>>341527321
>LOOOOK MOOOM I POSTED IT AGAIN!
No one tried to defend this. In fact it was removed becuase of community backlash.
>>341528592
How much straw did it take to construct a man of such magnitude?
>>341527842
If modders don't want to give their mods out for free they don't have to. Just don't make it
>>341527321
neat, I thought it was PC gamers were the ones that were outraged enough to get them to pull it. now that I know it was console gamers who were the ones behind the backlash I can correct all those other people who must have been shitposting.
