I'm curious where /v/ draws the line on piracy. Let's have acivildiscussion about it and gather some results.
http://www.strawpoll.me/10487096
There's no line. If you want to play multiplayer, you buy it.
There is no line.
If you take something that is sold without paying for it, then it's considered stealing.
Trying to justify it to yourself in your own little anonymous world with your little anonymous thief friends won't make the facts any different.
>>341348352
I believe very much in 'game feel'. Some games just don't feel as nice to play once you get your hands on them as they do when you watch it being played, or see a trailer.
So, I *very occasionally* use torrents to see how a game will play hands-on, as shareware would have in the past.
I still try to buy everything though. I have good internet averaging 14 - 15MB/s download so I could just get it all digital, but I like having something to hold and say I bought it. There is almost no chance I would pirate something and play the whole thing.
Recording "let's play" videos with unabridged gameplay is also piracy
Who's going to buy Heavy Rain after watching someone play it?
>>341349594
Literally kill yourself.
>>341349753
That's a completely different discussion.
Narrative games often have branching paths (unfortunately one of them I haven't played it Heavy Rain but I did play Fahrenheit) and different choices you can make, sometimes with smatterings of gameplay. Can you be arsed to either a) watch all the possibilities and accept the player may be making choices you don't want to see, or b) miss out on the gameplay sections for yourself?
Not to mention, especially with Telltale games, the price is fairly low. I think I actually re-bought both Walking Dead 1 and 2 for my GF on Vita for £14 total, if that.
I almost always pirate first.
But I end up buying games if I enjoy them (Stick of Truth, Cities Skylines, etc). And some times I just buy first if I like the developers (CIV 5, Stellaris, etc).
Never okay, but it won't stop me from doing it.
>>341348970
Truly euphoric opinion. *tip*
>>341349929
Why?
If the publisher isn't going to provide a demo or share-ware levels then I don't really know how it plays. Its also becoming harder to trust publishers out to get your money, so you don't even know if a game is good.
If I like what I play, then I buy it. If I don't, I delete it and don't buy it. All I'm avoiding is giving money for a shitty product.
You would test-drive a car. You would preview a song on iTunes. You would play a few riffs on a guitar. Why is a game any different?
>12 votes saying it's ok for emulation
I'm legitimately curious. Can anyone who voted that please explain your reasoning?
>>341348352
I pirate everything that I don't intend on playing multiplayer.
>Paying for software
HAHAAHAHAHAHAA
Its literally like burning money.
And since the war on piracy is over and the pirates won, there is really no consequence if you are using peerblock to mute your ISP and the ridiculously lenient rules for persecution they use.
>>341350134
>Can you be arsed to either a) watch all the possibilities and accept the player may be making choices you don't want to see, or b) miss out on the gameplay sections for yourself?
To the contrary, I would have no motivation to play if my gameplay path were even remotely similar to the one I watched. And heavy rain eg has colossal overlap
Piracy is a poor young mans thing, once you get some money of your own and wait for sales you should try to buy.
>>341350728
Why would I pay money for a decade old game
>>341350484
But he's right. Even if you can try justifying it, it doesn't change the fact that you stole the game.
>>341351025
I didn't steal it, I made a virtual copy of it. They don't have any fewer units to sell. it's not like shoplifting the game cd off the shelf.
>>341350898
That's fair. Like I said, I haven't played that particular Cage game, but I have played plenty other narrative games. I can understand if most choices converged to the same large plot markers, but I'd still want to play it so that every little choice was mine.
>>341350728
The company isn't going to get any money anyways. I'd just be giving money to some dumb hoarder.
>>341350728
The process of getting niche classic games is not worth the effort, let alone the exorbitant price.
>but muh collectables
Nigger I want to play vidya not mount it on a shelf.
>>341350728
I'm not buying a modern Nintendo console for old as shit games, otherwise it's option 2.
>>341348352
Uhhh, kinda a funny issue I guess. Usually I wouldn't condone of it, since I'm honestly a bit of a moralfag, but with companies that routinely bullshit and jerk us around about content, and nearly never deliver on our expectations, I think it's becoming more justified.
>>341351176
Its on the same level as stealing cable or directv.
>>341350728
I have a little RetroPie booting in to EmulationStation that I use for some multiplayer NES, NeoGeo and SNES gaming. I genuinely own a NES and several games for it, but for everything else it's abandonware. If I download a ROM of Mario 3, who exactly am I taking away from?
I'll get Nintendo's virtual console games if they release them, but they're releasing the 'classics' which I already played a long time ago (Super Metroid, Donkey Kong Country et al).
The more obscure NES games can be the most fun. It literally hurts nobody and I may have almost no other way to play them anyway.
>>341350998
This. There is zero harm done if you're dead broke. But once you start to get some money to yourself you should try to support the industry. At the very least developers you admire.
>>341351701
>There is zero harm done if you're dead broke.
Hey Bernie when i was 14 i mowed lawns around my neighborhood to save up for mw2
>>341348352
>be from Eastern Europe
>an AAA title costs anywhere between 10-20% of the monthly salary of an average person (when not on discount like steam etc.)
>devs want me to get their game in a legal fashion
>tfw I will only enjoy them for a couple of days at best because no replay value on most of them
fuck no
either they lower the prices for this market or I will keep sailin' the seven seas
Literally nobody can/wants to do anything about piracy here. Not even ISPs. They are even grateful people get high-speed internet to pirate stuff because they are using their product (Of course they won't just go ahead and say it publicly.)
>>341351638
Not to mention I already own the Virtual Consoles on cartridge (off the top of my head, Zelda, Zelda II, Swords and Serpents, Metroid, Smoking Gun, Mega Man 3, Super Mario 1/2/3) so I wouldn't be re-buying them anyway. It's just a better way to play them since the console is clunky and I prefer the Xbox controller now.
>>341351025
I think you mean stole a copy of a game, that has literally infinite copies available.
Theft or stealing only applies to real goods. Not a collection of virtual information.
>>341348352
>Piracy is always ok
If there's no demo or there isn't a refund policy - I'll pirate the game.
A game is interactive, expecting me to buy a game before I can try it is like expecting me to buy clothes before trying them on. If a developer is banking on the fact that their marketing has generated enough hype and enough people have bought into the game without knowing its true quality - then they're anti-consumer and I don't feel any remorse for "stealing" from them.
>>341351701
I'd argue that stealing from companies that routinely fail to deliver on expectations (and only become worse about) should have their shit taken, so that they either go bankrupt or get their shit together and stop dicking around.
>>341351176
Do you consider sneaking inside a rollercoaster for free also not stealing? It's about the experience you recieved, not about physical/virtual objects.
>>341351567
Which is still not stealing.
As it is not a physical thing.
>>341351968
>tfw you still mow lawns for cash
>>341352086
>mental gymnastics
Kid just stop stealing shit.
>>341352051
This is not how IP works
>>341352148
Your analogy is retarded and you should be put to death.
>>341352260
Establish a landscaping business on the backs of illegal immigrants.
>>341351567
No it isn't you dumb fuck.
>>341352148
Figure out a way to pilfer a roller coaster and get back to us sport.
>>341352343
copyright infringement is not theft.
>>341352260
It better be one of those huge ride-on motherfuckers that can shred a dog.
When I was very young in Primary school we weren't allowed on the field if it was being mowed by those because they were paranoid someone would jump underneath it.
>>341348970
>that is sold
And if it's no longer sold?
>>341352343
>what is Fair Use
This kills the IP.
>>341351567
Except to steal cable you actually have to physically jack into a cable line. That is trespassing, tampering, breaking and entering, etc.
A better analogy would be your friend with cable recording some shows and giving them to you.
>>341352343
>Kid just stop stealing shit
Name one reason why stealing from someone who is actively trying to scam you is in any way immoral.
>>341351968
>Bernie
kys
>>341352148
But in sneaking onto a roller coaster you're presumably taking up a seat that could have gone to a paying customer. It's about stealing something that's finite versus stealing something that's infinite.
>people don't check out and drive a vehicle before buying
Fucking retards.
>>341352352
>>341352401
The analogy is retarded, but you still get the point. You're supposed to pay to get your ride, getting in for free IS stealing.
if people wanna steal some shit and see how it is before they buy that's all well and good
if people wanna steal some shit and not ever pay that's where we're all going to disagree and get mad at each other
Comfort.
if i want to play a game on my computer, i will. if i want to hold the 3DS, Vita, or Wii U gamepad in my hands as i play then i buy it.
>>341352763
No, it's trespassing. You are not a very smart person and I hope everyone around you knows it.
I don't feel particularly bad about pirating literally everything.
Demos don't exist anymore, they've gone on to be a part of the greedy shilling setup, as is the case with Doom.
Game devs/mostly publishers really don't deserve money in a lot of cases, if it's the same fucking game with nothing but shit added, and I know they're already making far too high of a profit already, I would feel incredibly bad about giving them extra money, as is the case with Ubisoft
There's no guarantee games actually work on launch anymore. They could just as well be buggy as shit, unoptimized past redemption, or just not be fucking finished, as is the case with Arkham Knight.
And beyond all that, if I don't enjoy a game, I wouldn't want to spend money on it, so it's nice to test it out before purchasing.
I try to fund certain devs. I bought Grey Goo, I might buy Dawn of War 3, I buy small indie titles all the time.
>>341352343
>mental gymnastics
>Being expected to buy a quite expensive product on potentially nothing but goodwill and unrepresentative trailers.
>Not caring about being able to interactively try an interactive product.
If you do this, then it sounds like its you doing the mental gymnastics to justify it.
Not everyone watches hardass reviewers like TotalBiscuit, and I'd wager not everyone even watches reviews for games they want. If the publisher doesn't give enough of a shit to provide a representative gameplay demo if nothing else, then a torrent will have to do.
Hell, even Destiny has a demo. Even Diablo 3 has a demo. And the gameplay there is fairly tight.
>>341352893
Not that guy, but if you get on a ride with limited seats, without paying - you're taking up a seat, meaning that you're also taking away a ticket sale. So in the end you're literally taking their money.
>>341348352
You either do it or you don't. I no longer attempt to justify mine.
>>341353379
I agree.
>>341348352
If you pay for something when you could be getting it for free with no consequence, you are literally, by definition, less intelligent than someone who doesn't.
>>341352893
Same shit. You have to pay to get in and you didn't pay, which is illegal.
>>341353729
each dollar you spend on vidya is a dollar you won't spend on actually useful stuff
like getting a new car, paying bills, food etc.
or at the very least: upgrading your hardware
>>341348352
I have a more important question.
WHO IS GOING TO STOP US?
Keep paying what amounts to a month of groceries in some countries for a game you will stop playing after 3 days and never touch again.
You sheep are hilarious.
The world isn't a fucking happy playland where things are fair because you want them to be. If people can get something for free, they will. And until someone starts shelling out billions of dollars (wchi they wont) to protect a company from losing a couple million dollars (they won't) there is literally nothing you can fucking do about it.
So shut the fuck up.
>>341353775
The only sense that it's the "same" is in that they are both illegal. Words have definitions, that's why we use them. That's why if I were to say murder were pirating as well because you "took a life" I'd be wrong.
>>341353109
you're not going to get bait-and-switched in 2016 though
game review scores when aggregated are generally accurate
>>341353109
>If the publisher doesn't give enough of a shit to provide a representative gameplay demo if nothing else, then a torrent will have to do.
read this back to yourself and think about the word "entitlement"
>>341348352
If you already purchased it, it isn't piracy at that point.
>>341352051
>>341348970
>If you take something that is sold without paying for it, then it's considered stealing.
Even if we bend the English language enough for the word "steal" to include "not paying for something that illegitimately exists for free", what exactly is your point?
Why do you assume that "stealing" is morally wrong by default? You seem like a naive 12yo thinking morality is black and white, and this world is build on transcended, absolutely moral rules.
>Even if you can try justifying it, it doesn't change the fact that you stole the game.
This sentence makes no sense. Do you know the meanings of the words you use? If a theft is JUSTIFIED, sure it remains a theft, but the moral weight of the term changes completely.
Even legally, the context of a theft may completely change the outcome.
>>341354136
We're talking about whether piracy is right or wrong, not on what degree. I myself do not believe that piracy is wrong but it is wrong in today's society.
>>341354091
>getting a new car
>useful
A car is like a phone. If it's functional - it's good enough, everything above that is luxury and therefore no better than spending money on videogames.
>>341353729
so rapists and thieves are geniuses who 'beat the system' eh
>>341354109
>(they won't)
what is denuvo
also
>white male with free time reminds the thread "The world isn't a fucking happy playland"
lmao
>>341355163
>so rapists and thieves are geniuses who 'beat the system' eh
If they get away with it in a clever manner then...sure? If you're grasping at straws to make an analogy at least make one that proves your point.
>>341354983
A new car is definitely a waste of money, sure, but no matter what your vehicle is, you'll need some spare cash laying around for repairs and maintenance. Saving $60 every time you pirate a game adds up pretty quick.
>>341354976
There are degrees of everything. It's hard to fault a starving person for stealing an apple, and before I hear
>comparing pirate shitters to starving people
It's simply an example that there is a spectrum for every instance of human behavior.
>>341354976
>I myself do not believe that piracy is wrong but it is wrong in today's society.
Well thanks for the pointless irresolvable statement alien jim. Feel free to contribute an opinion if you think of one.
>>341354920
>Why do you assume that "stealing" is morally wrong by default
Because it's not yours
PC gamers in the basement are not perched on some intense ethical dilemma
This can't get simpler
>>341355163
>white male
Ok bud time for you to go
>>341355470
>there is a spectrum for every instance of human behavior
yes clearly can you guess based on your post which spectrum you're on?
>>341352531
Sounds like some typical nanny state shit. "Someone could totally die we better keep everyone locked up."
I remember when I got footsie (that game like tag but you had to kick their feet) banned in my primary school because I kicked some poof's foot once and he cried so they banned it altogether forever.
>>341354493
>game review scores when aggregated are generally accurate
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAH
>>341348970
>If you take something that is sold without paying for it, then it's considered stealing.
what about F2P games?
what about games that are no longer being sold ie Abandonware?
>>341355794
That is a really mean thing to say.
Are there people seriously against piracy on here?
What happen to 4chan being against moralfags?
>>341355882
>Entitlement
They aren't giving it to me. I'm a potentially paying customer whom they could persuade to brand loyalty. It's their job to make and sell me something I want. I'll be as entitled as I want because it's my money, which I earned, on the line otherwise.
>>341355652
>Because it's not yours
Explain how this means it's morally wrong. Go on, I'll wait.
>>341350447
Exactly this. Someone should have /threaded right here but they didn't so oh well. It's unethical but I'm an average guy with an average job and it's just way too easy to pirate shit for me NOT to do it. I really don't mean to sound edgy here but I do a lot of things that I shouldn't because I can. I'm just not all that ethical when I'm not afraid of being caught, to be honest with you family.
i only do emulators for snes, genesis etc.. and in a lot of cases i had the game i am emulating back in the day
that being said i dont care what you guys pirate
Woops, sorry,
>>341356175
was meant to respond to:
>>341354493
Pirating on "moral/consumer" grounds -- such as disagreeing with the developer or publisher on something -- strikes me as petty and pointless.
It's also self-defeating. Most content producers don't think, "This person is pirating my works because he disagrees with me. What can I do to turn his opinion around." They tend to do one or more of three things, many times fucking with people who legitimately bought their product as collateral damage.
(1) They introduce intrusive security measures in an attempt to force people to pay for their product.
(2) If the product sells enough regardless, they'll write off the pirates as lost revenue and pander to the people who did buy their product, further alienating the pirates and causing a vicious cycle.
(3) If the content producer is small-minded enough, they outright stop producing the content as a punitive measure.
>>341348970
>If you take something that is sold without paying for it, then it's considered stealing.
I take a Snickers bar and replace it with an identical Snickers bar. Have I taken something - sure. Have I STOLEN something - no. Because stealing is "taking something without the intent of returning it".
>inb4 food analogy
>>341356103
No one is against piracy, we're just tired of the "it's okay when..." bullshit. Piracy should be assumed and not jusified.
>Denuvo is uncrackable!!!
>Already on V3
Piracy always wins
>>341355163
>Denuvo
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
I'm laughing that you think a full-proof DRM is or ever will be extant.
>White male.
OOOooooOOOOoooo you really got me there.
You are a fucking imbecile you know that? Thinking you know anything about any poster here is beyond retarded.
>>341356103
Intense levels of ironic false flag baiting either going full circle or working as intended.
>>341356103
It got overrun with normies once /b/ and /pol/ started making news.
>>341356513
yeah, i agree with you. not to mention the fact that pretty much everything you purchase has very valid reasons to dislike the company on moral/consumer grounds.
it is a silly way to rationalize piracy, if you are going to pirate something just say that you did not want to pay for it.
>>341356582
Agreed. It's okay to admit you do some unethical shit, just don't be a faggot and try to act like your shit doesn't stink while you're doing it.
>>341356513
In this case the "write off the pirates as lost revenue" thing doesn't really work.
If they are pirating a game out of spite for a developer, then they were certainly never going to buy it. Furthermore, they probably never even intended to play it. Literally nothing is lost in that situation.
>>341348352
Where is the "it's wrong but I don't care and do it anyway" option?
>>341356912
At least a few of us have already said that.
>>341348352
>http://www.strawpoll.me/10487096
Why are there more votes for Piracy as a trial when there *is* a demo, compared to when there isn't?
That's basically all I use it for. If there is a demo, what is the point?
>>341348352
Don't really have a line. I pirate games and if they're good I buy them and promote them.
Some people don't believe any pirates actually buy but it doesn't matter what they believe.
I pirate because I spend too much money on vidya because I love it too much. Piracy is the only way I can quench my thirst and lets me give my money to the ones that actually deserve it.
Where's the pirating for the sole purpose of deducting $60 directly from Tod Howard's personal bank account option?
>>341357349
This is the correct answer. 'B-but you're Acting Entitled!' faggots who see themselves less as consumers and more as money-dispensing whores should take note.
>>341348806
this
Best thing Gaben has ever stated or implied in an interview
>>341357615
If you torrent a Beth game purely because you hate it, you were never going to buy it and you're unlikely to play it.
Nothing was lost. You didn't take away money, and if you had true negative feelings for the creators you didn't even take away the *potential* for money.In my eyes these reasons make spite-Pirating an entirely token gesture, but it's your internet, do what you want
>>341348352
Honestly im pretty jaded about this. I try and support content creators i enjoy.
But really if people pirate they may not have any intention of supporting the creator meaning that he wont lose or gain anything. I think its a fallacy to believe that a pirated download is a lost sale.
As long as there are people supporting the creator i dont think we should focus on punishing those who dont.
I guess my stance is that the individual creator should decide wether piracy is wrong or not.
>>341357615
You get how data replication works, right?
>>341358039
It's a joke, autismo.
>>341357615
>Where's the pirating for the sole purpose of deducting $60 directly from Tod Howard's personal bank account option?
Unless you have a direct access to his account and deduct $60 from it after you pirate the game, it's impossible.
>>341348352
I pirate everything.
I don't care because there are no consequences to it.
Morals don't exist. You are a child if you think they do. Only consequence exists. Virtual systems are too widely used and established to do anything about it.
These are the realities. Your opinion does not matter. You morals do not matter.
Bye bye.
>>341358170
Yeah I got that, but it still had a point to it. Other people further up the thread had openly made that point without the veil of a joke, too.
I buy vidya when I think it's a good game or to support the devs for making something good. Buying (anything) is like voting, your money is giving a company the means to keep going.
I'll go out on a limb here and say piracy is a good thing when done responsibly. By pirating a game, I can evaluate it before I support the developers and parent company to continue their work.
Additionally, it gives consumers the ability to play a game without supporting it. CoD can be fun for a few hours, but by buying it i'm enabling the stagnation of the FPS genre. DOOM is fun as well, but there are obvious difference that make DOOM more important in how the genre evolves over time. I'll play both the new DOOM and CoD, but you can bet your ass I'm only paying for DOOM.
>>341355652
>why is stealing always morally wrong by default
>because it's stealing
Well, maybe you are a 12yo.
>>341358458
You absolute fucking madman.
I pirate pretty much everything at this point, unless I have no choice (Online multiplayer, Denuvo, etc.) but I still buy physical copies of series I would like to see more of, even if I pirate it anyways (Etrian Odyssey series for instance.) Hell, if it wasn't for piracy, I wouldn't be into have the series I'm into now because I never would have given them the chance.
>>341358458
>Spot the kid who passed his first philosophy class
>>341358458
Take care not to cut yourself with all that edge
>>341358458
>>341348352
i don't pirate games because i like to support devs.
i do pirate music and tv shows. (not movies tho)
>>341358585
Not that guy but it doesn't matter if stealing is morally wrong or not. If someone in power considers what you are doing stealing you will be punished for it. You can say it's impossible to prove it's morally wrong but in the end it doesn't matter because if you get caught you would be punished.
>>341358527
Also, devs constantly mislead gamers on their end product, asking us to shill out money for preorders, etc...
they're trying to actively screw us, piracy levels the field
>>341358879
Theseus's ship braskoni, the torrent is taken tiny piece by tiny piece from all over the world and put back together it's not even the same game anymore checkmate atheists.
>>341358458
>You morals do not matter
If there are no behavioral guidelines, there's no basis for any consequence or punishment.
Good luck on functioning in the society without a moral compass you sheltered neckbeard.
If I pay for games I have to stop eating.
Piracy is always ok.
I downloaded RCTW and Planet Coaster because I was iffy on both of them.
Planet Coaster is still very unfinished but I love it, going to be an amazing game and I will buy it when it comes out.
RCTW on the other hand, feels like a broken crappier version of RCT3 which I already own. I would be mad if I had paid full price for it.
It takes longer than the steam refund period to know whether the game sits well with you or not.
>>341348352
I've pirated a lot of shitty games so I can see how bad they are for a laugh. Stuff like Catwoman The Movie The Game, Or Garfield Kart. If piracy were impossible I'd just never play them. Stuff that I would never pay for in a million years. Anything I actually intend on playing I pay for. I guess the only other exception would be for emulating games that are being held hostage by crazy people on eBay.
>>341359705
I don't have anything bad to say about the fact that you pirate games, but as for your priorities, have you considered getting a job? You'd need to sacrifice some of your vidja time but not all of it. And even once you had money you could continue to pirate games instead of buying them, and spend the money on other shit...like food.
The only time piracy is acceptable is when a game is only available at an absurd price, like Earthbound before it was put on VC. Otherwise, piracy is always hurting someone, whether it's the original developers, used game stores, etc.
>>341359927
If I get a job I have to drop out of college.
>>341350728
>games that barely exist anymore
>paying nintendo $10 to play a nes game
>paying sony $20 bucks to play PS2 games I used to own the disk for
>>341359941
>The only time piracy is acceptable is when a game is only available at an absurd price
>Otherwise, piracy is always hurting someone
So weather or not piracy is financially hurting a company depends solely on the price of the product? What the fuck are you smoking?
>>341350728
Find me a genuine copy of shin megami tensei and a japanese sfam to play it on for under $0
>>341359941
technology against "piracy" only damages poor people in underprivileged countries. sure, there are entitled cunts in the first world that can pay the high prices and chose not to, but those that are punished are the same people that either way wouldn't have enough money to buy shit in the first place.
t. unemployed paco, from a third world shithole where minimum wage is 350
>>341360274
I kind of get where he was coming from. Last time I checked, his example game (Earthbound) was like 80 pounds + on Amazon, and more on eBay, and all of that would go to the hosting site and the individual happening to sell it (NOT Nintendo).
I'm happy to pay a few quid for a VC release since otherwise that would financially hurt them as their profits would decrease.
Makes sense, he just worded it like shit.
>>341349929
>>341350498 Truth'd you pretty hard.
/thread
>>341360274
No, that's obviously not what I meant. >>341360826
This guy gets it, I worded my post pretty poorly. What I was saying is that no one is going to pay $250+ for a single game, and that's the fault of the people selling it for an absurd price. If you have the money to buy a game, buy it. If you don't (and I mean actually, just getting by with no extra things don't, not spending your money on other luxuries) it's not like you'd be able to give the seller your money anyways, so pirating doesn't really make a difference there.
>>341360171
That's one of the few totally valid excuses.
>>341359205
>but in the end it doesn't matter because if you get caught you would be punished.
How is this even remotely relevant?
Regardless, your argument is wrong. Exactly because piracy is not considered immoral by hundreds of millions around the western world, it is almost impossible to punish it, no matter what the people in power think. They can only make examples out of people, and push unenforceable laws.
>>341348970
>The only "free game" is a "stolen game".
Piracy, this means to get a "free game" by "stealing a game". But nobody likes to think of themselves as a thief, but copying occupies a "grey area" on most people's moral compass. They don't for example see copying a CD as the same as mugging an old lady for her purse!
Because of this, we are divorced from the act of "theft", and that's why "hackers" or as I like to call them -- "thieves" do what is termed in criminal jargon as the "heavy lifting". They get the games, crack them, copy them and distribute them on the Internet –- so we can all use them!
Pirating a game is very complicated, so you shouldn't do it, you should just go and buy it.
Just to illustrate what's involved we will talk you through a typical method for pirating a game. This is not meant as a guide -- you can find those on many pirate site. This is purely to show how complex it is and what can go wrong at every stage of the procedure. To actually pirate a game you will need to do the following:
1. Go online and find a popular pirate site and download it. That's it. However, this end up with torrents, virus and all sorts pirate site issues, and you wouldn't want that!
2. Download the files and open them on your computer -- unpack them. At this point you hope there is no spyware or Trojans (keyloggers, filesharing, etc.) inside. Congratulations, you are now running a totally illegitimate copy of the game, scum.
3. Sometimes there's a huge amount of fiddling, and you need to install updates or additional files to get the game to run, like using keygens -- again software from a known criminal and illegal hacker.
4. Once completed you turn it on and hope for the best. Often you will get an error message -- so back to the drawing board as you try and fix this and your peace of mind!
>>341363039
During this process, which obviously takes an awful lot of your time -- things often do go wrong and it's not a simple course, especially as its rather technical. Any glitches, bugs or problems you now have with the game you have to put up with, because you don't know if they are from the pirate software you loaded or some other reason. That's why running pirated and badly "cooked up" software is always a bad idea.
The conundrum is that as a consumer, you end up in a very poor situation.
Hackers reading this may want to say "you are being over dramatic about this", however we disagree. They are not the one being called up by innocent people who have fallen foul of pirate software! This does really happen, we get called all the time by poor people who are in trouble. It's easy for a hacker who knows his stuff, of course he can patch systems. However, the average consumer doesn't know all this and so makes slips and ends up paying for them.
It's a false economy to use anything pirated, any short term gain will be outweighed long term with the after effects. At the end of the day -- thieves and criminals are no friends to society. Theft is not a good sound basis to operate on.
In fact pirated software takes a lot of time and hassle and we think its best left to others. The reality is that even if you manage all this -- you will end up with non standard software, that often cannot be easily updated, has no warranty, and can compromise your system!
>>341361856
Ok, well I get the point here: >>341360826 he is correct in terms of the developers usually not being the only party that has a stake in the game.
But now you're trying to peddle the price bullshit again.
A games price in relation to your personal financial situation isn't an argument for piracy. It's a completely subjective and in this case - irrelevant metric.
>>341348352
>>341348970
>it's morally wrong to pirate video games
Like I give a shit about your arbitrary "morality"
Morality isn't a real thing. It's an arbitrary set of rules, different to each person, and usually with religious roots. It doesn't really exist. You can't sense it in any way. Its just an idea and ideas change.
In the grand scheme of things, feeding the homeless is no 'better' than murdering them because 'better' suggests there's a definite, indisputable measure of morality, which there isn't because morality changes.
Actions therefore can only be judged on how they help the species as a whole. Killing is thought of as 'wrong' and yet nobody bats an eyelid over the amount of killing we're doing in the Middle East to defend truth, justice and freedom and all that jazz.
There are no absolutes. There's no such thing as pure good or pure evil. They're synthetic constructs. Raping a child has some good elements because it brings pleasure to the rapist. You may find that repulsive, but you can't deny it. Making people happy is always seen as an admirable quality.
Humanity is a kaleidoscope of gray, and refuses to be classified by your binary rule set.
>>341354109
>The world isn't a fucking happy playland where things are fair because you want them to be.
This. Most of the people who argue against piracy on moral grounds, live in a fucking bubble. They have no idea what 60 dollars / euros mean for the majority of people in the developed world. Ask the average working person in Italy or Spain, what he thinks about the prices of vidya, when the job he went to university for pays 900 euros per month, and he's left with 300, after rent and bills.
When the prices of games / movies reflect the real world, then we can start talking if piracy is immoral.
>>341358729
>>341358879
>>341358896
>>341358879
>>341358928
>being a realist is being edgy.
Ok.
>>341359568
>ever going outside
nice try
>>341364170
>arbitrary
There's nothing "arbitrary" about morality, because in 99/100 cases there's a law helping you understand specifically what is and what isn't moral. If you choose to a be part of this society, you also choose to abide by it's laws or face the consequences.
LAWS which: again you chose to abide, have equated piracy to stealing - therefore it's immoral to pirate games. Your definition or understanding of "good" and "bad" is completely meaningless.
Piracy is stealing but I will always do it if the option is available, because I get to enjoy the content for free.
>>341365548
Nobody chooses to be part of a society you dipshit.
Laws actually haven't equated piracy to stealing. As laws are based in systems of logic, not morals as you contend. Theft has for the last 2 millennia been defined as the taking of physical goods.
>Laws are based in morality.
Legislation is based on the need of the state to mitigate the problems of a society as their most influential citizens perceive them.
>>341366414
Of course the law is going to say it's wrong to steal. They don't like it. I don't like when people take my shit, so of course I'm going to say they shouldn't. Doesn't mean they still can. Just know that if you try to steal from me, I'll probably kill you since I see no reason to spare those that cross me.
>>341365548
I'm not the same guy, but
>99/100 cases there's a law helping you understand specifically what is and what isn't moral.
This statement is fucking retarded. Laws change as our morality evolves you idiot. If people automatically accepted law as a moral absolute, we would still live in a cave. We only moved forward because we questioned the previous laws.
>Your definition or understanding of "good" and "bad" is completely meaningless.
No, it's not. It is the other way around. Exactly because hundreds of millions of people don't think piracy is "bad", the laws against piracy are practically meaningless.
>>341366621
>Completely missing the point that software is not a physical good and therefore by definition cannot be stolen only duplicated.
Nobody cares that you would kill someone over them stealing from your pathetic wannabe bad ass.
>>341364170
>Morality isn't a real thing. It's an arbitrary set of rules, different to each person. [..] It doesn't really exist.
Accepting this as the premise, your conclusion is at odds with your assertion. (See next part.)
>>341364170
>Actions therefore can only be judged on how they help the species as a whole.
But that's morality as defined in the deontological ethics of utilitarianism. You just said before that morality doesn't exist. (Which it doesn't.)
>>341364170
>Making people happy is always seen as an admirable quality.
And your rape remark is a legitimate example of a different quality: The motivational goal of being driven by pleasure and sensuous gratification for oneself is that of hedonism. Hedonistic preferences are concerned about personal pleasures.
>>341365548
>Your definition or understanding of "good" and "bad" is completely meaningless.
Pretty much. In a lawful society, "good" implies goals and values that reinforce safety, harmony, and stability of society, of relationships, and of self. The lands of Gulags and bread lines also fit that description by the strictest definition of the rule of law.
>>341367429
No, I was actually agreeing with you. I forgot to put the "this" in front. sorry about that. Also, it's easy to kill humans.
>>341367704
>how they help the species as a whole.
Might have been worded ambiguously, it could have just meant Humanism.
>>341366621
Are you so naive, and politically illiterate to think that laws generally reflect the interests of the majority? Jesus fucking christ open a history book.
There is a law currently being pushed in Europe, that allows for mass termination of employees without valid reason or limitation. Do you think that law reflects the morality of the majority of the people of Europe, or the interest of the few in power?
Really, how old are you?
>>341367704
>But that's morality as defined in the deontological ethics of utilitarianism.
Not that guy, but do you have a better way of defining it? What other viewpoint is as, or more, true to the reality of a species trying to figure out what actions to take and which to not? I would argue that if there is a definition for morality, it must be one that takes into account the entire species no?
I don't pirate games, but I see no moral problems with it since video game companies are exploiting labor.
>>341365548
It's dishonest to say you get to choose wether you want to live in society or not. In an absolute sense, there are other options, but they are all objectively worse, and none of them is actually free from society. Every single possible lifestyle that tries to stay away from human society will be affected by it one way or another.
i draw then line where whether i want to play it or not
>>341366414
>Nobody chooses to be part of a society you dipshit.
Yes, you do. If you don't like the laws of your country - move to a different one. You're not held against your will, you can live virtually anywhere in the world, live in a fucking forest, for all I care.
>Theft has for the last 2 millennia been defined as the taking of physical goods
Define piracy however you want to, the bottom line is that it's illegal.
>Laws are based in morality
Who are you quoting? I'm saying that laws are a common point of reference for morality. Weather laws are based in morality or the other way around is a completely different topic entirely.
>>341348352
Piracy is wrong, but what's worse is faggots who try to justify it. It's not the same as actually taking something since it ends up with another copy and not a lost product, but you are potentially hurting sales and therefore potentially hurting a company.
Piracy is ok, it's not a lost sale, if you wanted to buy it you would.
But if you were not planning on buying it and liked it, you SHOULD buy it to support the developers.
>>341348352
Unless you're a poorfag/student, you shouldn't pirate the games.
>>341352051
>>341364916
>>being a realist is being edgy.
edge levels approaching 9000
I only buy games to support the devs, that makes me happy.
Its ok as long as you seed
It comes down to this - I am the one who determines the value of a product. If it costs more than I think it should I won't buy it. But that doesn't mean I don't want to play it. So that's why I pirate most games.
Unfortunately for game devs I apply pic related 99% of the time
>>341348352
Pirating a game you've payed for (if it's not functional due to DRM or whatever) is 100% fine and even moralfags shouldn't have a problem with it
If there's no way for you to acquire it legitimately I personally don't see the problem
Using piracy as a demo is kind of a grey area. I personally don't do it, but I don't think it's the worst thing out there. The only thing is I think many people who do this are kidding themselves and will contrive a reason not to pay
At risk of sounding like a moralfag myself, while I think piracy is technically different from regular theft, you're still enjoying a product while the developer sees no compensation. Not the most horrid crime in the world, but it makes you a leech and you have no right to complain if developers don't do stuff you like anymore or if someone goes out of business.
I only pirate things that I wouldn't be able to get a hold of otherwise.
Like roms or japan only visual novels.
>>341368610
Immigration is not that simple. You have to pay a lot of money to do so and take a test that no citizen born there has to, usually. Not to mention that they only want you if you're deemed useful. I can be a useless piece of shit here in England freely, but if I want to be a useless piece of shit in Germany, I have to find a job and pass a German test first? The only other option is being a Syrian refugee, but I can't exactly claim that.
>>341366414
>Theft has for the last 2 millennia been defined as the taking of physical goods.
lolno
US Constitution Article 1, Section 8 details protected status of intellectual property and copyright, since 1787
Granted under the explicit definition, you are not stealing the product itself so it's hard to equate piracy with theft. However, legal precedent has been set in the US that committing piracy directly correlates with theft of the economic impact of the piracy, whether that be $60 for downloading a game, or $6,000 for seeding it 100 times.
Not judging or anything, I pirate too. Just wanna make sure everyone's up to speed with current events.
>wants a civil thread on /v/
>post monkey president
You only have yourself to blame nigger.
>>341367134
>No, it's not. It is the other way around.
No, you're stupid. Law dictates morality, your delusional autistic fantasies about what should and what shouldn't be considered good - do not.
>the laws against piracy are practically meaningless
They're meaningless because they're not enforced, not because "millions of people don't think piracy is bad", you retard.
>>341369038
Holy fuck, this is the most ridiculous, biased thing I've ever seen. It's a joke, right?
>>341370829yes
I buy good games, and pirate games because the system does not offer an alternative to demo, or rent games before purchase.
Always pirate, always. Never be a cuck to corporations.
>>341368610
>Move to a different one.
Oh yes of course I forgot how people have the option to move.You fucking dumbass.
The question was if you choose to be born into society, you do not. Nobody does.
>But that's morality as defined in the deontological ethics of utilitarianism.
Nobody "defines" what anything is you simpleton. Definitions are a collection of several thousands points of influence across multiple millions of sentient beings.
>I'm saying that laws are a common point of reference for morality.
Morality does not enter the equation. This isn't a discussion about WHETHER they are used as a reference point, its about what the purpose of these laws are.
You wouldn't download furniture, right anon? Ikia is a small business that sells high quality goods. Building your own furniture from scratch is piratically stealing from them.
>>341369074
Nice argument.
>>341368190
>What other viewpoint is as, or more, true to the reality of a species trying to figure out what actions to take and which to not?
Whatever they chose, those choices make up a system, that system is called morality. That is the definition of morality, because those choices refer to moral values. Questions about morality boil down to whether morality is innate or artificial, and if so, which ones are the correct choices according to different systems of morality and what are the consequences of those systems?
>>341368190
>I would argue that if there is a definition for morality, it must be one that takes into account the entire species no?
That assumes that everyone is expected to follow that system, which is to impose those values on others, which requires you to first propose a single moral value which allegedly suffices, unless you otherwise think that is unnecessary.
>>341370696
Why would duplication of a game equal an impact on economics if the person who duplicates it has no intent on buying it?
>>341348352
>pirating digital media
Got on my level. Soon as I'm able to. Going to download my own fucking car.
>>341371716
It doesn't. There are good goys that will throw money away for trash.
>>341371716
>no intent on buying it?
That's our perspective, the court does not see it that way.
The most dangerous thing about how the courts interpret anti-piracy law is that if someone pirates the music/video/software, the court reads that as someone who would have bought the product if piracy was not an option, thus if i download a game and give you a copy and I get caught, the company can sue me for 2 games because both of us would have bought it if we couldn't pirate.
This explains part of why the first publicized piracy cases were on the order of hundreds of thousands and even millions of dollars.
Part of that was cause RIAA wanted to interpret anti-piracy law as theft of copyright since pirates duplicate and distribute, which didn't stick, but gross economic impact of the product did. Some poor people who unknowingly seeded Shakira's "Hips Don't Lie" thousands of time were slapped for a huge suit as a result.
>>341370825
>Law dictates morality
So what happened to that law we once had about buying and selling humans you imbecile?
We questioned it, and changed it.
You seem to be working under the completely idiotic impression that society as you know it magically got here, as you know it.
Laws and morality is constantly changing. I can't fucking believe i need to actually explain this to someone who is at least mentally able to operate a computer.
>not pirating games to destroy a shitty industry
Pirated lot of shit but also have no problem paying to support devs I like.
>>341370825
good goy
>>341373035
pirate shitty games, buy good ones
simple as that
>>341372986
To cite,
Dowling v. United States (1995)
Disney v. Hotfile (2013)
I just finished my first year of law school, and I have a keen eye on entertainment law, so this stuff is my bread and butter.
I'd want to comment on the circular argument that >>341373028 and >>341370825 are having, but there's just too much to be fleshed out.
>>341373028
>Thinking that humans would find rape morally reprehensible without a specific law stating that it is
Retard
>>341350728
I used to own the console but don't anymore and I don't feel like spending money for a new gameboy when the money is just going to some reseller.
>>341350785
>Time Warner's 6 strikes a year policy
yeeeeeeeeee
>>341352748
>test drove a jeep
>felt like slow clunky ass
>bought it anyway
>also pre-order
I am the best goy
>>341374876
>parents ask me to download movies for them at their house
>don't bother with a VPN, download anyway like I've done countless times before
>get an email from Time Warner for the first time
>mom freaks out, thinks we're going to be sued for millions and lose the house
>"Mom, let me explain how this wor-"
>"NO MORE MOVIEESS AHHHGGGGHH"
What the fuck do I her to get her to calm down?
>>341375616
That's not a fucking joke, Teslas get pre-ordered so much there's an 18 month waiting period for the new model
Vidya industry culture spreads
>>341374346
>thinking laws just drop from the sky, independently of human morality
Laws are made by humans you fucking idiot. Humans are influenced by a plethora of things, including past laws, and an ever evolving morality. It's like the chicken and the egg.
You can just state that laws always dictate morality, because who the fuck dictated those laws to begin with? Someone's morality.
>>341348352
Big Business Activism?
I don't approve of recent publisher/developer relations or Big Business's invasion of the video game industry, so I pirate to deprive them of value for man hours spent trying to make a consumer product?
That would be my main hiccup about it all.
I don't really draw a line.
My other problem is lack of a fucking demo outright.
No demo, no buy. I'm getting Ni-Oh that shit was awesome, and they're releasing a demo come August for the Beta build.
I fully intend to shoot faggots in the face with a samurai Matchlock.
>>341375995
>keep your cool
>you do you
>calmly explain situation
>tell her if anything happens, you'll take responsibility
Most of us are in our goddamn 20's you'd think we learned how to talk to our parents by now
>>341376481
>thinking laws just drop from the sky, independently of human morality
When have I stated anything like this? My entire point is that your notion of "laws don't dictate morality" is utterly fucking stupid, not that mortality has never had an impact on legislation.
Please fuck off you strawmaning neckbeard.
>>341348352
>I'm curious where /v/ draws the line on piracy.
In my own personal experience, I started pirating PC games in 2008, owing to the rise in anti-consumer DRM policies that made these games such a hassle to install and run. I then found myself stopping after Good Old Games came out with their DRM free installers for games.
>>341376576
I mean, my parents will board up the windows if they see a suspicious shadow outside. Explaining that they're just falling for scare tactics doesn't cut it.
>>341378184
Being able to control a conversation is an important skill, don't make excuses or say they can't be persuaded. Convincing them it's all kosher is a brand new game for you, unfortunately you started the game on very hard, now git gud.
>>341377435
If you accept that laws are influenced and thus change according to morality, then you accept that laws are not moral absolutes and should always be questioned, contradicting your original argument that laws dictate what is good and what is bad.
You saw a strawman because you didn't make the connection.
You retard.
>>341350498
>You would preview a song on iTunes.
Im not saying youre wrong. Youre totally right and i do the same.
But nobody buys songs anymore,do they?
Let's shed some light.
>>341376481
> It's like the chicken and the egg.
> who the fuck dictated those laws to begin with? Someone's morality.
Nope and nope, laws were created for societal safety, Egyptian If/Then clauses, Ur-Nammu, Hammurabi codes, all created so that a society can mitigate the threat of harm in the form of murder or more frequently theft (people don't understand, but theft was extremely serious since people often stole food, and by stealing another person's food, you could be condemning him to death, hence the archaic but justified death sentences for theft).
>>341370825
>Law dictates morality
Nope again. As far as legislation goes, morality is close to non-issue. In the current society, the primary function of law is to enforce a certain set of behaviors in a society. As society changes, ETHICS, not morality, slowly change. Law is inherently a societal construct, morality is an individual concept, they only intersect at ethics, which can be considered a collective morality, what is perceived as good, acceptable, or bad by a society. As ethics evolve, legislation changes to adjust for it (decriminalization of abortion, sodomy, etc...).
Modern law is nuanced in that it's power does not lie in the letter of the law, but how it's interpreted by judges, and that power is created so that the law can better and more smoothly serve a changing society.
To recap.
Societal construct + need for safety = law
Society advances (technology, culture)
changing society --> ethical change --> change in legislature
Societal = law, ethics
individual = morality
>>341348352
I'll do a lot of watching and researching of a game before I buy, so I almost always enjoy my purchase without having to resort to piracy. The only exceptions to this are if they are unavailable to me normally (not available to buy through being out of production, or Aus Laws being retarded and not selling it), or if an unavailable version is superior to the one I could get normally, such as the censoring in Stick of Truth.
