I had a 2 hours discussion with a faggot about what it's more important in games, good gameplay or a good story, and he could not stop trying to argue that story always comes first and gameplay second, and no matter what i told him i couldn't make him see why he was so wrong.
It's thanks to faggots like him that we have anual ass creeds and bad games like the order 1886, games with less and less gameplay every year.
People like that, people that forget that games are fucking games, sicken me to no end.
So what do you think /v/? story or gameplay?
There is only one right answer.
>>340819596
Gameplay otherwise go to /tv/
Whatever. I might play through and enjoy a game with good gameplay and bad story just as much as a game with good story and bad gameplay (most recently Planescape: Torment).
>waaahhh someone somewhere disagreed with me. argue for me /v/ );
No one gives a fuck. How about accept the fact that people have different opinions, you asshurt autist?
OP you fucking tard. Theres no one or the other. If you have a game with only one or the other, what do you have? A shit fucking game. Both are equally important.
>>340819717
Or read a fucking book if you only want a good story, why is this so hard to understand?
>>340819756
But gameplay ALWAYS comes first, if the gameplay it's bad, why even play it? why do people want to play bad games? if you're really interested in the story, just read it online and you save yourself the money from buying a bad game
>>340819596
>gameplay
>story
Why not a good balance and care for both?
Or is having a well rounded package too much in 2016?
>>340819826
It's not a matter of different opinions anon, you don't play games for the gameplay? what's wrong with you?
>>340819596
Honestly it depends on the type of game. Both of those can make or break a game.
The importance of each depends on the specific game and genre in question and only an idiot thinks one is always more important than the other, there are games with great story and atmosphere but mediocre gameplay, and games with amazing gameplay but no story, and both can be good
>>340819924
Because people want to be a part of a story. You can't do that in other media. It's not hard to understand. However, that is a combination of gameplay and story.
Obviously, something that is pure gameplay (like tetris) will beat something that is pure story (like a vn).
>>340819910
Incorrect, if the gameplay is good, why care for a story? sure a story it's well apreciated and if it's good, it gives some motivation to keep playing.
I've played several games without a coherently-good story and i've really enjoyed them because they're good fucking games.
Or you can't enjoy playing tetris because there's no story behind it?
>>340819910
>a game without a story is shit
Did games start being good with RPGs?
>>340820191
I can understand it on RPGs, i get it, you're supposed to insert yourself in the story and world of the game as the player character, but i can't really think of any other genre that benefits from a story as much as RPGs, and i'd still arguee that even in RPGs, the gameplay it's the most important element in the game, take out the gameplay and you have a really long movie
>>340820227
I dunno man. Pong told an epic tale.
>>340820195
>I don't like it, so the game doesn't need it.
Since you want to argue like an autist, here's your (You). Everyone ITT already told you why you were wrong, so hold this L. Story is important to video games otherwise it wouldn't be in video games. Just because you're a shithead who doesn't enjoy it doesn't mean its irrelevant.
>GOOD STORY IS NEEDED FOR AN ACTION MOVIE!
>GOOD ACTION IS NEEDED FOR A DRAMA!
This is how retarded this argument is.
As always, it depends on the individual game and what it's trying to accomplish.
A creative setting and/or story can make up for mediocre gameplay, and vice versa.
>>340820390
I don't remember saying i don't like stories in games, i like it, but gameplay still always goes first faggot.
Sure people remember the first Zelda for it's almost non-existant story and not because it was a revolutionary game.
>>340820505
I want to face fuck Ramona Flowers
Gameplay is more important than story, but story-based games can work on sub-optimal gameplay if it's based around and supports the story or narrative being given
>>340820337
Yeah. An RPG is about the interaction (gameplay) with the world and the characters. This creates a story. Personally, I don't think many rpgs do this well. I actually think a game like Red Dead did it better than most rpgs.
Adventure-Puzzle games need an interesting story. But that's getting into VN territory.
>>340820641
not the previous anon, but what was the point of even making this thread? People are telling you that you are incorrect left and right, and you refuse to admit it.
>>340820227
RPGs are about systems, not story. You can play the early wizardry games without knowing a single thing about the story. Storyfaggotry is a blight on the genre.
>>340820921
Fine, i get it, they're both important, and there's no real right answer because there's so many types of games that it's not fair to narrow it down to one single aspect that's vital in every single videogame.
Then it's a argument that really has no right answer, and that makes it pointless to argue about it.
It's up to how everyone sees it then, thread's over lads
>>340821417
No they're not equally important. A game with no story can still be a good game. A game with shit gameplay and a good story is a shit game and would be better off in another medium. A good story can definitely enhance a game though.
>>340821227
Yes and as we all know the early Wizardry games were the peak of RPGs. Story's important in RPGs but because of how deeply connected it is to the gameplay. Look at the diplomancer playstyle, that's a perfect example of story elements and gameplay merged into one to the point where they cannot be seperated.
>>340821686
They were actually. Wizardry 8 has yet to be surpassed in the dungeon crawling genre.
>>340821686
The best stories are the ones that come from your experiences, not what some writer shoved down your throat. Warren Spector's games and Roguelikes are a good example of how gameplay can produce its own narrative.
>>340820641
>Always
Not always, but it's never going to make something shittier by having amazing gameplay.
>>340822376
yes always
>>340820505
>GOOD GAMEPLAY IS NEEDED FOR A CINEMATIC EXPERIENCE
i love this meme
>>340821818
>last entry into the original series
>early Wizardry
>>340822487
>I said it so it's true.
Okay, but you are wrong. My subjective opinion says you are wrong, and I'm still going to purchase games like Neir with terrible gameplay and love it more than a game with better gameplay than it technically but a absolute retarded story like GoW.
>>340820505
A good story is needed for an action movie. Getting rid of the interesting stories and storytelling in action movies and just focusing on explosions and shit is exactly why they are terrible now.
>>340822674
Early wizardry games are top tier too and very playable today.
>>340819931
Pretty much always has been. Good story, not just good for a video game good story has always been a rarity in games, especially since most games lauded for their stories are goofy anime bullshit or 2grim4u depressathons. Good storytelling in games usually involves telling the story through environmental cues and character actions as opposed to info dumps courtesy of support characters that make you stop and mosey along at sloth's pace with a finger to your ear.
>>340823259
Chances are you cannot actually cite 5 examples of good story telling in movies and writing.
Most people who say things like "goofy anime bullshit" or "2grim4u depressathons" are elitist who actually have not been exposed to much in the realm of good storytelling at all.
>>340820505
But that first one is right.
>>340823396
I'd put a fair wager down that you couldn't cite 5 examples of good story telling in games either, on account of taste being a subjective thing. I'm hardly elitist. My favorite game of all time is Lunar SSSC, which is goofy anime bullshit from beginning to bittersweet end. I just know that games that actually handle story well enough to not be of niche appeal are fairly uncommon.
Plus, I could cite Shakespeare or Lloyd Alexander and you'd probably still say
>meme writer
or some such thing.
>>340819596
Frankly, if you can't pull off both, you just lack skill.
>>340819596
Fuck that question, how'd the rest of your date with the faggot go?
>>340820006
I do but others dont. I certainly dont see the appeal of video game stories but that doesnt mean I am going to sperg out if someone disagrees with me
>>340823882
Most things that are written that have value are not written for mass consumption, so obviously they will have niche appeal. Most people do not want "serious" media.
>I could cite Shakespeare or Lloyd Alexander
And I could cite games that have story telling as good as anything Shakespeare wrote, and you would dismiss it because it lacks the historical significance, which is what truly sets his writing apart.
It's a time period thing, literally. That's how it all works. Just like how painters of the past who have mediocre ability by today's standard are remembered as masters, and students who surpass them now are considered amateur.
>systemsfag
>believes story should be put at the bottom of a design hierarchy
>against heavy exposition and lore dumps
What went soright?
Gameplay comes first but having a great story and great gameplay is what seperates the good games from the great games.
>>340823580
No it's not.
>>340819717
>watching movies for the story and not for the cinematography
>>340822778
Dredd had a simple story. Wasn't good. The action was great though. So fuck off.
>>340820390
OP is right though. You can have a game with great gameplay and no story and it will still be good, but if you have a game with lots of story and shitty gameplay it can never be good.
>>340824793
>Anon thinks Gone Home is a bad game
spotted the faggot
>>340819596
A game with no gameplay is not a game
A game with no story is still a game
QED nigga
>>340824474
>Just like how painters of the past who have mediocre ability by today's standard are remembered as masters, and students who surpass them now are considered amateur.
Yeah, Michelangelo, what a fucking mediocre hack am I right?
>>340824904
>>340819596
Exactly. That's why I don't understand why /v/ hypes up movie games like witcher, persona, and metal gear.
The only GAMES I play are racing and puzzle. No story bullshit. Fuck that and get the fuck off this board.
>>340825397
This is clearly bait but all the games you listed have good gameplay and focus on a player experience. If you'd have said uncharted or the order I would agree.
>>340824657
I'm pretty sure Pacman, Zaxxon, R-type, Virtua Tennis 2, and Virtua Fighter 2 are considered the best games of all time.
They don't have a story, asshole. You want a story, fuck off to /tv/, /lit/, or /a/
>>340824474
Shakespeare's work isn't really all that clever by modern standards, but because he codified so many aspects of modern storytelling he's fondly remembered. His twists and surprises have all been done to death now. It's like how Seinfeld isn't considered funny anymore, despite setting the standard for how most modern sitcoms are made.
But leaving that aside, I'm not talking about serious media. I'm talking about gaming still struggling to find mainstream acceptance in the same way that film or books have. If someone enjoys, say, Black Hawk Down or Saving Private Ryan, will they find the stories of Call of Duty or Battlefield compelling? Someone who watches fantasy pulp like Game of Thrones, would they be engaged by Dragon Age similarly? Given that with the current console gen roughly only 10% of the US plays games on a modern console(I'm leaving PC numbers aside due to how difficult it is to quantify the number of PC gamers, though a rough estimate based on Steam would put us in a similar range for gaming capable systems), the answer seems to be no. Even without considering install bases and sales numbers, game stories tend to be, if not badly written, then often badly told. A game is an interactive, visual medium. Relying on text dumps and cutscenes for storytelling is a reliance on the methods of other media that we seem to have a hard time shaking.
>>340824904
I know you're being funny, but Gone Home is legitimately weak. The core premise of learning the story of a fractured family through visual context is actually interesting, but the implementation of it is sloppy, since it ends up being overly reliant on text dumps for exposition instead of using visual cues and trusting the player to stitch together the pieces.
>>340825559
>This is clearly bait but all the games you listed have good gameplay and focus on a player experience
Oh boy, I really love the "select enemy's weakness" gameplay of persona
Oh boy I really love the shit cone-vision a.i. and regenerative health in mgs 3
oh boy I really love the follow red mark, flip through text, and roll and spam quen gameplay of witcher 3
fuck off. none of those are games. people play them to finish the story. they don't play them for leaderboards, multiplayer, scores, or to better themselves in competition.
>>340825629
Actually none of those games are considered the best of all time.
That would be more like OOT, Half life, Metroid Prime, MGS, RDR, FF7.
>>340826056
Stay mad retard you're shitting on some of the best games to ever grace gaming.
>>340826101
>That would be more like OOT, Half life, Metroid Prime, MGS, RDR, FF7.
by who? gaming journos?
get some better tastes faggot and start playing actual games first.
>>340826101
>OOT, Half life, Metroid Prime, MGS, RDR, FF7.
Sure, only casual shitters consider those the best games there are
>>340826296
>you're shitting on some of the best interactive movies
fify
you can't even affect the story in metal gear. it's a playable movie.
>>340826352
Haha yeah I figured you'd say something like that, stay delusional retard.
>>340826547
>>>r/gaming
>>340826462
>hurr I need Bethesda dialogue wheels to feel like this is good
>>340826101
>OOT, Half life, Metroid Prime, MGS, RDR, FF7.
lol
>>340826598
This is coming from the guy who thinks pacman and Tetris are the best games ever made. Kill yourself moron, you don't seem smart nor do you have better taste because you latch on to bullshit.
>>340826626
You ask any metal gear fan why they play metal gear, and they'll say story foremost.
The gameplay itself is shit and is barely even a good stealth game. Splinter Cell and Thief far surpass it. Face it, it's shit.
>>340826832
They're at least games with endless replayability and emphasis on gameplay foremost.
This is better than any bullshit from reddit you can pull out of your ass.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zl0kc1EQ1js
>>340827050
>He actually thinks old basic as fuck games are better than games I listed
Maybe you should switch to mobile gaming where PURE GAMING exists. Like candy crush and temple run, yeah you're a real patrician bro.
Gameplay > Story, simply because you can enjoy the gameplay multiple times over different playthroughs. If i wanted to enjoy the story multiple times, i'd just fucking watch someone else play. There's no reason to run through a game with a strong story but disappointing gameplay again just to watch a story when you can just watch someone else's playthrough.
>>340827231
>shitting on Crystal Castles
