MMO THREAD
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You are currently reading a thread in /v/ - Video Games
Let's have a general MMO discussion.
What ruined MMOs?
How do we fix them?
What would your ideal MMO be like?
What MMOs are you currently playing/waiting for?
etc etc
>What ruined MMOs?
Normies
>How do we fix them?
We can't. The only thing is to get some new technology where nerds and geeks could thrive when normies still think it's too weird for them
>What would your ideal MMO be like?
Emphasis on huge world, exploration, difficult but rewarding, easy to learn but hard to master, great soundtrack, hard and epic fantasy
>What MMOs are you currently playing/waiting for?
None, played WoW and after WotLK changed to Rift.
>What ruined MMOs?
Status quo
>How do we fix them?
'We' don't.
>What would your ideal MMO be like?
Runefactory MMO with player-made cities.
>What MMOs are you currently playing/waiting for?
None/none.
>>340758542
Rift was a great WoW clone. Proof that WoW clones can be good and that the genre still has hope. fuck trion for jewing it to death
>>340758282
WoW is fine. It's always been fine.
>>340758282
there is no way to fix MMOs too many people have become too Impatient for devs to stop catering to the casuals
>>340758831
Yeah, the leveling was great. Too bad the endgame sucked
I was just gonna make a thread like this. It seems there's quite a few of us that still have a lot of interest in the genre.
>What ruined MMOs?
"Streamlining" the player experience and essentially removing the social aspect. WoW is the biggest culprit.
>How do we fix them?
Experiment and innovate. Give players as much freedom as possible. Encourage people to actually communicate with one another.
>What would your ideal MMO be like?
I'm not sure but I'd like to see something like a 3D Ultima Online combined with the world building of Minecraft.
>What MMOs are you currently playing/waiting for?
None, sadly.
>>340758282
>What ruined MMOs?
Money. WoW really showed profit potential, so every other MMO attempted to copy it and make similar money, which was super stupid because its very difficult to steal someones market like that, especially in video games. Historical examples in other genres are abundant, and nobody paid heed, so the genre died out.
>How do we fix them?
Time.
>What would your ideal MMO be like?
Not really sure. I loved GW1 instanced PVP and the build variety with the low skill choice limit. I also loved the depth of character creation in Shadowbane and the all-out PVP. I also loved the Monty Python alike world of Runescape, great questing and humour. WoW was great for its world and its gameplay, though it did have flaws. Then there's FFXI for its difficulty and world, which felt immense and huge, amazing, though it was quite a struggle to stay current in it without poopsocking.
>What MMOs are you currently playing/waiting for?
I was playing on Kronos but the /vg/ drama just tired me out. I wish people weren't such children and could get along.
>>340758906
>WoW is fine
>>340758282
>What ruined MMOs?
WOW
>How do we fix them?
Make some original games
>What would your ideal MMO be like?
Mabinogi with more players
>What MMOs are you currently playing/waiting for?
Mabinogi all of the day every day since open beta.
Quickly, post the worst MMO you've ever playedbut still had fun in
>How do we fix them?
More sexy races
>>340759418
I put in thousands of hours onPhantasy StarUniverse
If the servers didn't go down I'd still be playing it today.
>>340758282
>What ruined MMOs?
Guild Wars 2
>How do we fix them?
Kill everyone at arenanet
>What would your ideal MMO be like?
Final Fantasy XIV ARR without monthly fee
>What MMOs are you currently playing/waiting for?
Stopped playing MMO's because they are all shit
>>340759692
I played that shitloads, but only on the demo. Never got bored despite a weekly character wipe.
>there will never be another game like Guild Wars
>>340758282
wotlk wow ruined it.
>>340759815
>Ideal MMO is a shitty MMO only with MORE gil spam and BRs
>>340759402
What server? I just got back into mabi myself
>What ruined MMOs?
Changing "multiplayer" to "singleplayer with other people"
>How do we fix them?
Revert this shit, but don't force it like GW2 did
>What would your ideal MMO be like?
An alive DAoC
>What MMOs are you currently playing/waiting for?
N/A
>>340758542
>implying NEETs and autists didnt ruin Black Desert
What ruins MMOs are developers catering to normies who bitch and complain about not getting what others put effort into getting (like how pretty much everything in life gets ruined)
>>340760161
Tarlach primarily. I'll probably be starting a new /vg/ guild on Alexina sometime today though, been trying to revive the general.
>>340758282
>What ruined MMOs?
Cata WoW or GW2
>How do we fix them?
You can't.
>What would your ideal MMO be like?
Non-P2W SMT Imagine or Mabinogi with lots of things to do
>What MMOs are you currently playing?
Runescape
>entitled faggots who don't want to dedicate time to a singular entity and end up hopping mmos like the dick hopping faggots they are
>we regress into the early 2000s and 90s, alienate casual faggots and get back to the way mmos were meant to be
> an EVE style sandbox with a futuristic artstyle, focused on high tech renditions of popular fantasy tropes.
>implying I care about current mmos now that koreans have given the genre super ebola aids
Is anyone playing Wildstar? Played a while before it went f2p, then quit, somehow there was nothing to do in the end besides the raids.
How's the playerbase at the moment? Still active?
I may just download it to level another char to 50, I kind of enjoyed the combat.
>>340758282
>What ruined MMOs?
Normies/casuals
>How do we fix them?
We can't
>What would your ideal MMO be like?
Ultima/Tibia-like skill system with the 3D open-world & focus on communities. Dungeons, if there are any, would be hard as fuck, but the rewards would be awesome, but not too awesome to make it mandatory for every player to do them. Also no dailies so it is impossible to make playing the MMO your second job.
Classes would be decided purely by how you play/level/skill your character (TES style).
>What MMOs are you currently playing/waiting for?
Blade&Soul is currently the only MMO I play every now and then. I simply can't play it too long because of the end-game dungeon pubs being retards only doing dungeons for dailies. + The NA/EU servers are dipshit in quality making "hardcore" grinding/playing BnS almost impossible. PvP was promising but due to server problems and NCWest not adressing the issue PvP scene is pretty dead apart from people doing PvP dailies.
>>340760792
I used to play wildstar, but the pacing of the game's leveling killed any hopes I've had of actually hitting cap
>>340758282
>What ruined MMOs?
WoW did and other companies trying to copy the success of it, instead of trying to be original
>How do we fix them?
Stop trying to be like WoW. Look at EVE Online. Has an extremely loyal fanbase.
>What would your ideal MMO be like?
Massive open world, various races, Realm Vs Realm, with implications/results of battle matter (kinda like WAR's RvR)
>What MMOs are you currently playing/waiting for?
Currently playing none. I dip back into TOR occasionally. Haven't touched FF14, or Rift in ages. I am cautiously optimistic for Camelot Unchained. It will be interesting to see if Jacobs actually has the goods for an mmo when he isn't shackled by EA, or if DAoC was a one hit wonder.
>>340761046
I kind of enjoyed leveling, I play this close-combat-mage-thing, can't remember how it was called. I really enjoyed the active combat.
I hated the veteran dungeons however, they were nicely difficult, but I couldn't find any not-braindead party members.
I didn't enjoy the theme of the main city however, but the housing and part of the regions were REALLY well done imo.
>>340759418
That is NOT The Matrix Online. The ONLY thing good about that was the end of beta event when Agent Smith "infected" the servers. He would call out a player by name and then find them absorbing the player's character into a Smith. They had Neo, Morphius and Trinity there fighting back.
>>340760496
Thats good, I'm currently playing on Alexina. It was kinda sad to see the general die despite all the faggotry.
>>340758282
Basically, back when Everquest: Shadows of Luclin expansion came out in 2001 at the peak of Everquest's popularity there was a new way raid content was partitioned off. The raiding guilds had to get keys to enter Vex'Thal, which was the end game dungeon and all guild members would need one. This was a major pain in the ass and the raiding guilds whined endlessly about it. Once they got the keys and entered Vex'Thal they experienced a dungeon that raped their face so hard the asspain could be felt serverwide. This caused a lasting animosity between the games foremost raiding guild leaders and the devs. This feud continued into Planes of Power with the PoTime keying and difficulty.
At the same time, Warcraft had been announced and began actively courting EQ's biggest raiding guilds. Most notably, Tigole of Legacy of Steel and Furor of Fires of Heaven. Both were known for their rants about EQ and its direction. The whiners of EQ were being asked about what they wanted to see in raids/quests etc..
Basically, Blizzard asked a bunch of whiney blue server entitled fucks what their wonderland mmo would be and they gave it them.
>>340758282
>What ruined MMOs?
Honestly for me it was Guild Wars 2.
>How do we fix them?
We don't.
>What would your ideal MMO be like?
A Guild Wars 1 that never died,
>What MMOs are you currently playing/waiting for?
None. No current MMO interest me.
>What ruined MMOs?
The honest truth? Gamers grew up. Some had families or got jobs or traveled the world while those shut-in NEETs never moved on past their teenage years of spending 40+ hours a week on a game and feeling good about it.
Thus when games started to cater more to people who spend a reasonable 5-10 hours a week playing a game because they have responsibilities, the 'core audience' (read: hardcore gamers) feels slighted.
>>340762632
>The honest truth? Gamers grew up.
>>340758282
>What ruined MMOs?
WoW's success. Every pretty much mimics elements from it to the point where everything is homogenized. Mostly all MMO play and feel the same to the point where I just can't bother with them anymore.
>How do we fix them?
I don't think it's possible at this point. The marketing style of F2P with microtransactions seems to be taking hold everywhere. Its purpose is to blatantly milk money out of consumers. Then when its not that you have the WoW/themepark clone. No one wants to take the chance to try anything different. Trying to do anything really advanced is not possible with the current tech unless it is instanced or not truly a MMO. Then almost everyone seems to be graphics whores at this point so every MMO has to look amazing, this cuts into development time, costs, and ingenuity of the game. I could care less if teh game looked 10 years old as long as it was fun.
>What would your ideal MMO be like?
I loved the short leveling system of GW where the endgame was basically PvP. Required not too much of a time investment to get into. I liked Runescape's fun interactive quests. Sure, they were goofy, but where enjoyable and felt better than almost everything else out today. I can't stand the current gear treadmill that exist in current MMOs: Quests give you decent armor, Do a dungeon every 10 or so levels for more armor, No point in crafting armor due to above reason unless the crafting skill is max level(Then it probably has endgame use).
>What MMOs are you currently playing/waiting for?
Nothing really. I want a player driven MMO with tons of possibilities. That or decent action based combot, I'm tried hot key combat.
It caught my attention that MMO threads used to be weekly threads. Now, they are daily threads. Why is that?Summer?
>>340763330
They've been daily for months now.I know this because I'm almost always lurking them
>>340758542
Communities don't make games. Studios either have a clue about what's interesting, or they're basically just dev'ing randomly.
"What makes a game motivating to play?" "What is decent mobility and replayability like?" These have simple answers.
>>340758282
Theme parks are the problem. Sandbox elements are a really simple improvement.
I am gonna blame facebook games.
>What would your ideal MMO be like?
Skill and items matter far more than level. A group of 6 level 20's should stomp a level 50 and have a chance against a level 80. Mount&Blade style combat where you attack and block in specific directions, no autotarget or autoattack.
Combat should be overwhelmingly pvp with pve being restricted to high level dungeons and stuff, the entire map should have pvp enabled with a level restriction based on your location. In a starting area, anyone within say 5 levels of you can freely attack you, however starting a fight will "mark" you. When marked, people can attack you without being marked themselves. Further from a starting zone, the level threshold will raise until anyone can attack anyone regardless of level. You level infinitely but after level 80, you reset to level 80 on death.
Leveling system not too unlike runescape. Your combat level is not influenced by noncombat skills (or the other way around), and your combat level is calculated by your combat skill levels (runescape uses attack, strength, defense, ranged, and magic, don't have an exact plan for what the skills would be in this scenario)
Players take over premade camps and forts on the map and can decorate/fortify them with the construction skill, this would be for hardcore neckbeards who can play daily to defend it. Most people would instead be homeless or get a home inside of a town. Items can be stored in banks, slots are purchased with ingame money.
Skills:
Combat skills (no plan)
Fishing
Cooking
Crafting
Construction
Alchemy
Farming
Sailing
Survival
Magic skills (no clear plan, magic would be some extreme thing that most players never touch due to its inconvenience and complexity. Let's say it takes 300 hours to reach 80 combat through melee/ranged, 1000 hours on a typical magic build. Mages would still rely on melee combat to deal damage)
Eastern aesthetic. No knights, green grass, wizards, castles etc. Armor is rare, most people have clothes and a weapon.
>>340763881
Sandbox doesn't immediately better there are elements of sandbox which are great and parts where theme parks are great.
The best way to save mmo's has already been done. Guild wars style of really short time to get to max level and having almost all the content is tuned for max level play.
Guild wars is funny in that people used to say it wasn't even an mmo because of how instanced everything was.
Also interesting pvp that guild wars had was amazing. Literally one of the most skill based pvp in an mmo ever.
>>340762632
What about the new generation of people that would take place of those who grew up?
>>340764345
Why even have level 50/80 at that point?
>>340764345
No classes (you would have a title like "warrior" or "hunter" or "shaman" below your name based on your skills/build but you wouldn't be locked to it, it would change as you change) and the races would all be humans, instead of normal factions you would join the guard force of a city. You would receive payment and items as long as you are within a certain radius of the city, and you are restricted from attacking people who aren't marked.
Some cities would be at war and their guards would have free combat enabled (no level restrictions, no marking) against eachother.
The goal is for most players to be cannibalistic savages with just a sword and maybe some sandals, constantly killing eachother to loot whatever scraps they can get. Making the game free with a 20 level cap for free players would help make this a reality. Meanwhile any items worth a damn concentrate to the people who have decent gear or work together in clans, they would be the de facto rulers of the game.
>>340764696
>Sandbox doesn't immediately better
Yes it does. The only MMO that is an actual sandbox right now is EVE, and its only problem is the gating.Nobody ever knows enough about it to actually criticize it. The game has some of the most diverse and quick 3D combat in the market.
>leveling
Archaic and irrelevant to enjoyment. Games can be fun without shitting on classes for 75% of the game.
>theme park content
Has to be made manually. Sandboxes have replayability and depth. It's that obvious.
>>340759204
This graph shows that some 70% of paid MMO income is from Asia. That's huge for judging a game like WoW's Asian population that doesn't even pay a sub, just per minute logged in at $2.50 per 1300. Bullshit, "12M" and now "5M" subs.
>>340764345
>>340765214
here's a primitive map of the setting, far from completion.
The map is also built for a /tg/ setting and not an MMO
>>340758282
>What MMOs are you currently playing
Anarchy Online, almost dead though
>>340764885
Kids have more to worry about these days like keeping up with social media and identifying their gender.
>>340765632
"Normies" is such a cop out.
>>340761376
Some game should copy EVE without the skill queue system.
>>340764885
That post is just implications. MMOs just aren't fun games right now.
>>340765552
>leveling is archaic
Eve has leveling it's just not a master level it's instead sub levels.
>>340766958
..Which completely prevents end game play thriving. What would it be like if every corp had the potential to be a Goons? Every problem with leveling is still inherent with EVE's SP.
>>340758282
>What ruined MMOs?
They're too easy.
Too linear.
No emphasis on exploration or secret areas.
Less focus on player interaction (although I think people in general are just less social even on MMOs these days)
>How do we fix them?
We can't I don't think. The first MMOs I played I was still astonished by the fact you could talk to all these different people and I thought it was really cool. Now whenever I log on it's the same old copy pasted crap world with some bullshit story and the same mechanics. If you've played one MMO you've played 99% of the others to some degree. It's upto companies to innovate.
>What would your ideal MMO be like?
Huge open, non linear world and dungeons
Very solid art direction (I was a huge fan of .hack GU for that reason actually, it looked like an ideal MMO visuals wise)
I'm a sucker for MMOs that incorporate a TCP in the game and you can collect monster cards to fight with .
Following on from that, other stuff to do in game when you just don't feel like grinding (e.g make your own guild HQ and have a specific area for it)
Action oriented combat, not just click and auto attack/auto spell.
>What MMOs are you currently playing/waiting for?
None, I've given up on the genre. Even the ones that seem amazing and unique always end up being the same shit.
The genre is stale.
>>340767108
Then you have no feelings of progression unless you do a loot based game and the loot determines your characters abilities. Games where literally all content is not gated is instead gated by time. So you can build a log cabin from the second you get off the boat but it take 3 days to gather the materials.
Your trading one master for another.
is there a good mmo about taming monsters and making a team for pvp
Tabletop games are better mmos
>What ruined MMOs
Datamining ruined the mystery and fantasy in MMOs, they're just games now. They're also really fucking hard to design. Just look at how WoW flip flops from being really fun to shit on a patch to patch basis, or how Guild Wars 2 has never had a piece of fun, meaningful content. Or just how long it takes to push updates out.
Most MMO content patches are pretty fun in general, if you're a fan of the genre, the issue is that content rarely has any longevity, and players burn through content waaaaaaaaaay faster than Devs can keep up with.
>>340759418
>>340768041
>emphasis on exploration or secret areas
What MMOs even had this?
>>340758282
Tried Guild Wars 2 for the first time yesterday.
It actually manages to not only play worse, but to look way worse than the original.
Amazing.
>>340768773
Guild wars 2 had phenominal exploration, art, and world design.
It just dropped the ball on literally everything else, and thats not an exaggeration. Post launch content was pretty bad, with the occassional cool patch. Expansion was a gigantic kick in the dick for any fans they had left. A lot of the people who play the game are hardcore drones, or people who dont have anything else.
>>340769184
What didnt you like about the visuals? Its the only thing the game got right, and I think they nailed it desu
>>340769184
I think the combat system in GW2 is actually one of the best compromises between tab-target and action combat and I thought it was pretty good if they were going in another direction.
It has nothing to do with GW1 though and the art direction (not necessarily quality), the music and core gameplay of GW1 is strictly better imo.
>>340768307
>Then you have no feelings of progression
Why? There's still progression, from affording ships, actual piloting skill and game knowledge, market savvy and resources, production lines, corps, null sovereignty..
Not trading shit.
>>340769393
>What didnt you like about the visuals? Its the only thing the game got right, and I think they nailed it desu
Animations seemed really wonky was what I noticed most, everything about the character models seemed really budget.
>>340768041
Not even WoW has just click and auto attack. If you only do that, you'll progress nowhere.
>>340758282
1)What ruined MMOs?
I used to play this Mud called "Dragon Realms." It's actually still going but when I played, there were thousands of other players online in a typical night. The game was one of the best I've played and that hasn't changed even though it completely lacked graphics or modern technology. The reason was simple: it was completely open ended and the game world was constantly being added to. One of my favorite things to do in that game was steal from players that had been killed and not revived yet. They'd get sooo pissed and they'd chase me for hours.
Second to that was ultima online. All I'd do in that game was go around checking if doors were unlocked to player homes. When they were, I'd loot everything I could get my hands on.
In the past 20 or so years though, MMOs just aren't made for people like me. They are made for the care-bears. I haven't seen a game that meets my expectations for open ended criminality like the early days since Eve and even that game only had that "feel" for the first couple of years.
So the key for a good MMO imo is for it to be open ended AND contain carebears that really don't understand that the object of the game is to take advantage of other people. The problem is that most games will get abandoned by carebears leaving only the theives and griefers behind - and it's no fun when everybody expects that stuff to happen.
The next good MMO will have to attract carebears and keep them hooked despite people like me lurking in the game.
>>340768676
What the fuck made this game so enjoyable
>30 different classes
>primary class is selected at character creation and is permanent for that character
>secondary classes are earned via specific quests, every class can be unlocked as secondary
>no leveling system
>abilities and passives are unlocked via spending skill points in talent trees
>skill points are obtained by using power crystals (lack of a better term)
>power crystals are obtained from rare mobs
>rare mobs are just normal mobs that spawned with slightly higher stats and a colored aura (small chance of occurring based on mob's "level")
>power crystals are tradeable
>maximum of 100 skill points
>skill points and secondary class can be changed and redistributed for free at any inn
>can mix and match various classes together like Berserker/Pyromancer or Necromancer/Druid for example, or can choose to invest all 100 points into your primary tree and be a pure Berserker, Necromancer, etc.
>skill points in secondary tree can not exceed the amount of skill points in primary tree
>every class, no matter the configuration, will have 30-40 different abilities when all 100 skill points are spent
>every class has a different purpose in combat. some are damage dealers, some are healers, some are controllers, some are buffers/support, some are debuffers, some can perform multiple roles albeit not as well as a pure, etc.
>combat functions identically to WoW, but on a modern engine that's even smoother and less laggy
>every mob in the game is assigned a class and skill point distribution, only use abilities that players can use themselves
>PvE functions identically to PvP, just against mobs with scaling AI based on preset difficulty
cont'd..
>>340769393
See when people talk about 'exploration' I have no idea what they mean. In GW2 the exploration was just pointed out to you. 'Go here and get some exp for climbing to the top of this hill' etc etc. How is that any different from a regular themepark?
>>340771142
I'm the guy you replied to originally and by exploration I was thinking along the lines of Maplestory. It doesn't really give you any heads up where to go which was one of the points that made it cool for me.
So for instance, there's no "This is the level 10 area okay now I have to go to the lvl 15 area". Not explicitly anyway.
That and hidden streets were really cool, just secret areas that weren't pointed out to you and you wouldn't know about them unless you learned them from somebody else or a website or something.
>"The spiritual successor of Ragnarok Online!"
I am still fucking mad.
>>340771117
..cont'd
>crafting professions work on a 1000-point system
>utilizing a profession skill rewards a certain amount of points, points effectively serve as levels
>creating a high level chestplate will yield 3 Armorsmithing points for example
>When a player reaches 1000 profession points, gaining new points will push the oldest profession points out and replace them
>specializing and maintaining a particular profession point build requires a lot of maintenance and dedication
>crafting armor/weapons involves getting the raw materials (metal/skins/cloth/wood/etc) and imbuing them with "augments"
>every single item in the game serves as an augment and correlates to a stat/stat value
>a certain fish for example, when its imbued with a piece of crafted gear, will add +1 to swimming speed
>a different fish will add +1 underwater breathing for example
>endgame monsters like helldemons or dragons will drop their teeth and eyes and scales that will add +5 fire resistance or +5 slashing damage, for example
>hundreds of different stats will exist in the game, many of which being non-combat oriented
>being a higher level blacksmith/tailor/craftsman allows you to imbue more augments onto a single piece of gear
>gear appearance is determined by the highest stat on the item
>gear with +fire damage as the highest stat will be tinted red/fiery themed, etc
>this system allows every possible stat permutation on gear to be accessible to players
>armor type (cloth/leather/mail/plate) isn't limited to certain classes
>every class can wear any type of weapon/armor, there are no level restrictions/requirements on gear either
>all items can be traded always, no soulbinding
>armor type will have different combat effects based on armor slot
>plate armor in the leg slot will greatly increase magical snare duration while greatly decreasing physical snare duration, cloth armor in the leg slot will greatly reduce magical snare duration while greatly increasing physical snare duration
DFO.
It's a combo game, so for 99% of classes, creativity and spacing is key. This class unfortunately has the problem of every move in each hotkey (which comprises of multiple moves through the hotkey crafting system) having more damage the deeper it goes, so it's always best to just spam a single key until it's on CD (through all the abilities in its slot).
>>340758282
I'm a proponent of sandbox MMOs, rather than themepark MMOs. I really got in to the genre during EverQuest and I think that one of the core flaws that we see dominate modern titles is the notion that the individual player is "special" to the narrative.
Remove questing as a means of leveling up:
The idea that every player should walk through the same linear quest line and have had the same experience by the time they reach X-Level is literally the cancer killing the genre. Replace questing with "Achievements". As abhorrent as that might sound, consider the implementation: Players leave town/city to play and upon returning NPCs at the local Guild Hall or Tavern would talk about what they'd been doing. Kill 50 wolves? People recognize you as a proficient hunter of wolves. Find a secret location? You're a treasure hunter. Explore an entire zone? An experienced cartographer. Implement tools for players to role play these achievements (actually drawing maps to sell to players would be awesome...). Reward players with gold/experience in much the way quests do, but you let them play their own story and do whatever they wish when out in the world. In this way each player gets to focus on the parts of the world -they- find interesting. They get to explore and conquer and they get to do it because -they- wanted to, not because NPC-X told them to.
>>340771736
>Encourage group play:
Make zones progressively less developed and safe as they move away from central cities. Each of these zones would be split between thematically modest solo-able areas (fields with animals or something) and more thematically interesting group content (a bandit hide out inside a mountain cave) at a rate of roughly 25/75. Have monsters or areas that take a group to defeat or explore generally result in ~10x the experience. Permitting solo play allows players to always feel like they can make progress, but making group play so much more attractive (more interesting content, more areas, faster leveling, better items) you nurture the community. Also tie this into point 1 where players can get achievements for grouping with the same players multiple days in a row (You're part of a well known gang, or something).
>Allow players to role play non-combat-centric experiences:
Those zones that are less developed? Allow players to level up whole classes that revolve around resource and good production (sort of like how FFXIV has whole jobs that craft). The actual process of producing goods would have to be engaging (mini-games for the manual labor, in depth economic principles like making contracts with guilds so they have to buy all of your goods first or something) but allow these merchant players to establish temporary forts/camps in these frontier zones. This reward players with a sense of agency, being able to have a tangible ability to develop and change the world.
>>340771850
>Making exploration difficult and engaging by establishing real risk:
This is the "death penalty" that so many younger players abhor. The fact of the matter is though, if death (or failure) isn't something you REALLY want to avoid, success doesn't mean as much. This can be implemented in various ways, but you always want to take away the exact thing the player was attempting to gain when they chose to take the action that failed: EXP loss when you die (you grind specifically to gain EXP so that's what you take away when they die), crafting materials break when you fail to make something, bad planning will bring an established frontier fort down, so on and so forth.
>Allow for many different avenues of progression:
This can be done in many different ways as well, but examples can be: using certain types of spells will develop them not just in strength (cast Fire enough and the Fire spell will do more damage) but also in function (Cast Fire spell enough, and it'll eventually get so hot that it adds a DoT burn, or makes enemies panic, or damages equipment, or whatever). This can also be done by adding in NPC "quests" (I know, I just said get rid of those... but wait!) in the form of allowing the players to assume specific roles in the society: Join the army and get issued missions. Become a sailor and have missions to take out a boat (preferably your own boat...) and find/deliver/slay whatever. The game simply needs to reinforce multiple different interests by letting the player's take fundamentally different options (you don't get army missions to do army stuff -unless you join the army-). Note that these options should also limit the player in some way. A decorated soldier of a nation should be punished for PvPing against members of his own nation, for instance.
>>340771536
This is the one that made me give up the genre completely.
I used to fool myself with every announcement for MMOs that it would be good this time. Then I just stopped believing.
Then they announced this years ago and I promised myself if it was shit I'd never get hyped for an MMO again.
My own damn fault. What a buggy piece of shit, braindead game.
The fact it has a defense force is the most egregious thing about it.
>>340771979
The entire goal of this system is to foster a community that interacts with each other, while allowing the player to right their own story. The goal of an MMO should be to allow grand adventures that are wholly -yours-. When you play a single player RPG, everyone has the same boss fights and meets the same NPCs. The GREAT stories we all tell each other about our MMO days are when we did "this one crazy thing, and jesus you'd never believe it! You had to be there!".
I'd love to see an MMO that did these things.
>>340758282
>What ruined MMOs?
Warlords of Draenor.
>How do we fix them?
By forcing Blizzard to release legacy servers.
>What would your ideal MMO be like?
Nostalrius with the updated graphics and animations.
>What MMOs are you currently playing/waiting for?
Kronos 2, i'm waiting for legacy servers.
>>340771536
Same here,
Fuck I can't stand themepark MMO's anymore this is bullshit and ToS is completely different to RO and I'm pretty fucking mad too buddy
>>340771536
still hurts a bit when I remember
>>340771536
>Those TP prices
Even Nexon doesn't jew that hard
>>340771629
>gathering professions aren't tied to a level or points system
>gathering efficiency and potential is based on tools/equipment used
>attempting to mine a high level mineral node with a starter pickaxe will take an hour to do, but can still be done
>getting higher quality pickaxes through blacksmithing/questing will reduce time spent mining mineral nodes by a certain %, allowing miners to gather higher level nodes in a timely manner
>minerals don't just regenerate in specific spots randomly, they replenish in volcanic areas sporadically (oceanic vents on the seafloor, volcanic eruptions, deep caverns)
>woodcutting works identically to blacksmithing
>trees don't grow back automatically, saplings must be planted and roughly one week (depending on tree type) must pass before wood is harvestable from that tree
>fishing success is based on area, fishing rod, and bait utilized
>a tier 1 fish caught with worms is used to catch a tier 2 fish, a tier 2 fish is used to catch a tier 3 fish, etc
>farming success is based on soil quality, seed type, and nurturing crops during their growth properly
>inventory space is limited via a weight system
>players utilize constructed wagons with beasts of burden to transport large amounts of resources
>>340771536
The soundtrack was the only good thing. Might as well release it as Ragnarok Online OST B-Side.
>>340772031
>>340772109
>>340772240
>>340772419
>>340772542
What's the matter anons, is not like the game requires a single item with a really low drop rate to progress past level 100 or anything.
It's not like only 4 classes of 80 are viable when you could run a int/dex stalker in RO and fuck people's shit up.
![92819[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/gs0lRJf.jpg "92819[1].jpg")
MMO isn't a genre but a distribution platform.
>>340772439
>entire world is spherical, no running into invisible walls and artifical barriers at the map's end like you do with flat plane worlds
>entire world is open, free for all PvP except for the safe starting area
>items may drop on death based on server type you choose to play on (hardcore or standard)
>attacking and killing an innocent player marks you with a red icon (red-handed), attacking a red-handed player does not mark you with as red-handed
>killing a red-handed player yields a criminal's head, criminals' heads can be traded at NPCs for useful items
>entire world outside of safe zone can be built upon freely by players utilizing the construction skill
>player structures can also be freely attacked and destroyed
>players can also craft siege devices (cannons, catapults, etc) using the construction skill which are very efficient at taking down player structures
>storage in the safe area is extremely limited, players must look to set up storage in unsafe area to store a large amount of items if they wish to do so
>storage can be accessed by anyone, but storage containers can also be locked
>locks on storage containers can be picked by players with the proper items
>endgame will involve groups of players walling off important resource areas (mines, tree farms, etc) with constructed walls, basing villages around these areas, and defending them from opposing guilds looking to access these resources
I hear TESO actually picked up major time, and now there's no subscription fee. I'm kinda tempted to try that, since I'm mostly done with Secret World.
I think the host your own will be the new form of MMO in the next few years.
>>340773234
This is great, I've always wanted to play a game designed for nothing but griefing.
>>340760496
How hard is it for a new player to get into mabinogi?
>>340758282
>What ruined MMOs?
Themeparks, the idea that any kind of convenience is objectively superior good game design and an improvement, the removal of human interaction being favored so you can play the game solo, the idea that progress and grinding should be like an eternal checklist and not a more interesting pool of limited contested resources that come and go dynamically. Oh, and accepting masked P2W as not being P2W.
>How do we fix them?
You can't. Modern industry sees MMOs as WoW and only as WoW. Therefore, you'll get a "go" at the project only under the conditions that you make a dead and buried game, thus eliminating the chances of ever making a good MMO in the first place. The best option is to forget about them, they're dead.
>ideal MMO
any of the oldschool ones (that means pre-WoW, babby) except not dead in the water, with only quality of netcode/server hosting improvements. Secondary balancing/design can all change as you keep the core vision the same.
>waiting for?
Nothing, I moved onto competitive multiplayer or singleplayer. Don't even follow any of the upcoming ones, I stopped caring entirely.
>>340773891
The best gameplay comes from primarily PvP games with high stakes, imo.
Serious question guys, do you think deadly boss mods ruined WoW?
Any thoughts on this game?
>>340774476
No if anything it kept guilds alive. Could you imagine half the guilds trying to do H25 Prof Putricide at a progression level without the aid of DBM?
>>340774476
No. The gameplay became shallow, the RPG elements became shallow, the entire game was casualized and streamlined at the expense of player interaction and community, the hardcore elements of the game were dumbed down to be made accessible to literally everyone who wanted a piece of the pie.
>>340764696
>and parts where theme parks are great.
False, you could pick ANY thing about themepark and see it executed better in a singleplayer game or lobby multiplayer game.
Themepark MMOs have no purpose to exist, the one unique thing about MMOs is interacting with an everlasting non-instanced world in a dynamic manner.
This is and will always the be its only perk that no other genre can offer.
>muh instanced pvp
A multiplayer skill-based game with browsable servers will ALWAYS be superior.
>muh instance pve groups
Any lobby team based game can do it better, there is no reason for a raid game to be in mmo format.
>muh grinding, stats, customization and leveling up
SRPGs, JRPGs, or diabloclones do those better and there is zero purpose to questing in MMOs, it's wasted server space
>>340774424
So why leave the combat exactly like WoW?
>>340770105
>WoW has complex gameplay
You are part of the problem.
I think MMOs are beyond saving because the community has been compromised with cancer for too long now, and it has shaped tastes, standards and expectations.
>>340775153
I've gotten real into WoW's combat over the years with raiding and arenas, I don't see a problem with it. It can have a crazy amount of depth and difficulty when it's done right, and it diminishes lag bullshit that you'd see with an action combat system.
>>340758282
Never forget the day the heroes couldn't save the world.
City of Heroes will always be my favorite MMO.
ESO finally removed Veteran Ranks and added Dark Brotherhood so I'm happy and you can't stop me.
I also enjoyed Age of Conan/Warhammer Online and Lotro all more than WoW.And then I got into WoW more with Cata/MoP/WoD and thought raiding was super fun.
>>340773891
bring it, fucking sick of designated pvp areas where 95% of the world is completely safe
>>340758282
>What ruined MMOs?
WoW
>How do we fix them?
Make a good GW clone
>What would your ideal MMO be like?
You already posted it
>What MMOs are you currently playing/waiting for?
None
>>340770685
I think it was honestly one of the better vanilla WoW clones where you actually needed to cooperate with other people to do any meaningful content and the classes were actually kind of fun.
It's kind of the same with Allods Online where the low production value probably helped them by accident in recreating that feeling of community and progression that early everquest-like MMOs had.
>>340773309
ESO is honestly pretty good. I got a key off of g2a for $18. The Imperial Edition too. The only drawbacks are the story, and that might just me being a massive lorefag, which is easy enough to get over once you remember none of the game is canon and there only being 4 classes and a handful of "good" races. On the classes though there's 2 ways to build for any given role and all 4 of them can fill multiple roles. Shit Templars and Nightblades can take any role in the trinity if you build them right. Still it gets boring aesthetically when you keep seeing the same for classes and almost nothing but Redguards, Bretons, Imperials and High Elves(the minmax races).
If you've got money to spare and time to burn definitely check it out.
>>340775252
>[argument not provided]
>>340775350
Oh, wow. I'm sorry to hear it.
>>340775916
Feel free to provide an argument.
>>340762084
>A Guild Wars 1 that never died
Be honest. Did you ever RP in an MMO?Did you ever ERP?
>>340776092
You not seeing the problem with it isn't an argument either, boyo.
There's minimal depth, no skill beyond a basic understanding of the classes, a promoted and updated meta that outperforms others, and you haven't figured this out over admittedly years.
I just want Gloria victis: not babby's first unity project edition
>>340776370
>There's minimal depth, no skill beyond a basic understanding of the classes, a promoted and updated meta that outperforms others, and you haven't figured this out over admittedly years.
You don't understand the game if that's the way you think it is. Any flaws you perceive with WoW specifically could be fixed in a game that simply copies the combat mechanics.
>>340761728
Whats always been funny to me is how nostfags always claims that WoW went down the shitter around the time Tigole left the WoW team.
>>340762632
>>>mmochampion
>>>/r/wow
>>340776587
Will it make it interesting being the exact same thing?
>>340776778
It was already interesting in World of Warcraft, and it could be made way better even though the mechanics are the same.
>mfw talking to friend about Warhammer Online and he randomly decides to google if there is a private server and there is.
>>340776913
A simple no would have sufficed.
>What ruined MMOs?
When teaming and socializing became (optional).
>What would your ideal MMO be like?
For me I felt that DDO was the perfect MMO. City-wide map that covers the entire world of the game with alleyways and dubious avenues leading to different dungeons and forgotten corners like sewers and warhouses that harbor cult hovels etc, and where everyone has a role to play in the party and need each other to survive.
Fuck how I wish there was a Planescape MMO. Give it Neverwinter Online's ability for the players to make their own map, give players the ability to unlock portals literally anywhere, and have players to figure out how to unlock portals by saying certain phrases, find certain items required to open portals like something as insignificant as a spoon, and doing certain gestures in order.
>What MMOs are you currently playing/waiting for?
The game that supposedly claims to be a copy+paste and successor of EQ.
https://pantheonmmo.com/
If everything they say is true then fuck man, its about time.
>>340777007
again, feel free to provide an actual argument
>>340774556
Interesting idea, the devs seems cool and geeky. I backed 150 bucks to their kickstarter last year but I expect nothing.
>>340760208
>implying black desert didnt ruin itself
>>340777137
WoW's core gameplay and that of many other MMO's being click enemy to engage and intermittently wait for cooldowns is boring. By copying the system exactly you've already bored the majority of players who got away from wow and the rest who are still playing wow.
>>340758282
MMO's never were "great", the only time MMO's was any poplular was because of WoW which dumbed/casualized down the genre like hell.
To all the sandbox lovers:
How about Life is Feudal MMO?
Reminder to everyone that Project Gorgon is the MMO you keep pretending exists, but it's not AAA pretty so you skip it.
Congrats, boys. You deserve mega servers and LFG queues.
Post any mmo that doesn't have anti cheat. I'm trying to test my abilities with cheat engine. Someone on /vg/ posted their game from last year and I made a speed hack for it.
>>340776370
>There's minimal depth
Pretending as if PvP is the central discussion, because PvE can get fucked..
Is the suggestion that the CC meta, stacking against healers while trying to DPS a target, is the problem? ..That it's odd losing control of a character for its whole health bar in some examples? If so, have another option?
>no skill beyond a basic understanding of the classes
Welcome to MMOs.. maybe all genres.
>a promoted and updated meta that outperforms others
This isn't a criticism.
>>340778120
Sorry, I meant you keep pretending you want*
>>340777917
>WoW's core gameplay and that of many other MMO's being click enemy to engage and intermittently wait for cooldowns is boring.
Again, if you think that's all the combat was, you don't understand it and have very little experience with it. When it was done right, it was very engaging and complex. Feral Druid in MoP is the best example of this. A entire book could be written on how to min/max that spec and play as efficiently as possible with it.
>>340777973
There seem to be almost an abundance of Chivalry style MMOs, and that just doesn't seem interesting, because it's probably just spam combat.
I genuinely enjoyed Neverwinter before it was ruined. Also liked FFXIV and Aion. I've been a WoW player since vanilla too and played Runescape back in the day.
I'm downloading Wildstar now, I thought I'd try it out. Is there any other MMOs or upcoming MMOs I should try /v/?
>>340778120
>Project Gorgon
This game is absolute dogshit, please stop trying to shill it.
>>340778556
Neverwinter was shit from the start retard.
Is this game going to save the genre or fail spectacularly?
>>340758282
>What ruined MMOs?
Developers pandering to casual players
>How do we fix them?
Focus on world building and not the players.
>What would your ideal MMO be like?
The world would be mysterious with players trying to learn its secrets.
Rare items would exist where there are only one copy per character
No level caps earn all the power you work for grind for a trillion years? Become a god among players.
A world with an interesting economy. Tons of Items, Super expensive cities that Players and factions can fight over physically and economically.
Rare items with unique effects could liter markets. (Somone could discover a stone in a Forrest that creates a one use portal anywhere. It could be used to summon an army inside a cities walls or to explore somewhere else)
>What MMOs are you currently playing/waiting for?
None the closest thing to my Dream MMO is Old Runescape. At least RS had an interesting economy.
>yfw gw2 is the best mmo on the market rn
>super smooth, fluid combat system
>most engaging and interesting raid mechanics (bosses might not be the "hardest" but simply because they're not a monotonous battle against a health sponge that goes on for 15+ minutes)
>diversity of classes that each feels and plays in a unique fashion which very few homogenized skills
>class roles are more about individual utilities, buffs, class synergies and supporting each other.
>PvE ranges from faceroll dungeons where you just stack and zerg, to high level fractals (80-100) which require an intermediate amount of awareness and class proficiency to raids which require players to have full awareness of their surroundings, role and class proficiency.
>Wide variety of endgame with open world PvE, instanced PvE, guild activities, sPvP and WvW.
>All PvE content will always be relevant as the max level is not increases per expansion and theirs no gear treadmill.
>Endgame comes from your own goals and/or collecting fancy weapon/armour skins rather than running for that next upgrade piece.
>>340760792
I tried to get back into Wildstar recently, only to find that at some point they decided to completely gutt the old stat system in favor of new stats, and now all of my gear was completely and utterly obsolete or deleted. Fuck that game.
>>340758282
The Witcher 3 is my "offline" MMORPG. It feels like an MMORPG but without stupid kids and time wastes. You play your role, have kind of "dungeons" have little "groups" and a top atmosphere.
>>340779603
Gw1 is the best mmo on the market right now.
>What ruined MMOs?
Mostly, for the moment, the fact other genres are so much more popular but the MMO boom is still not far back in history.
>How do we fix them?
I feel that as technology advances and everything in terms of making games becomes more and more abstracted, making MMOs becomes easier as well. Once a new generation discovers them, I feel they have a good chance of taking on a similar niche to MUDs back in the day. Maybe we will even see tons of amateur MMOs in another decade, all appealing to their own, small audience, offering a very different type of experience (or maybe very similar...) from each other.
There's so much unexplored territory in the genre it pretty much cannot truly die. Think of experiments like SWG or Shadowbane - what we're getting now is ugly hybrids of MMOs and buzzwords centered around these cool concepts of the past put together (like Crowfall), but in a couple of years I think we could well have people interested in the genre actually starting to make interesting games agian.
Oh, I also blame F2P. Its no good for persistent games like MMOs that require constant upkeep and where out of context stuff really brings down the experience.
>>340778660
>Mythic enterainment.
Are people seriously expecting a good game from them?
>What ruined MMOs?
Datamining/wikis, powergamers and normos who want instant gratification, and streamlined rollercoaster approach to design that caters to these categories. MMOs are now all about getting to max level as fast as possible, following net builds and grinding raids or doing muh epic PvP plays. They could as well be ASCII spreadsheets at this point. The sense of adventure, exploration, the social aspect are all but gone from MMOs now. Any content is datamined faster than devs can put it out and turned into easily digested numbers for people to add to their statblocks and continue on their pointless daily grind.
>How do we fix them?
We don't. There's simply no cure for the state of the gaming community. If you want ye olde MMO feel, look into and support small indie projects as well as private retro servers.
>Ideal MMO
Hard to say. Huge world. Exploration. Diverse playstyles. Design that discourages the Farmville mindset. Dynamic content. Encourages players to interact with each other beyond clicking a LFG button.
>What MMOs are you currently playing/waiting for?
None. Used to play a shit ton of them though. EQ II is my all-time favorite.
>you will never be young again and enjoying korean grindfest pristontale
>>340780461
Dark Age of Camelot was pretty fucking good though.
Anyone here play the original Everquest before EQ2 and WoW? Those were the days
>>340758831
Huh, Rift was shit. Fucking boring as hell theme, over-designed classes just like in modern WoW, dungeon finder, overly linear quests with a story even more boring than that of most other WoW clones (LOTRO, for example...) Not to even mention how it feels so instanced, unimmersive, and those fucking public quests you can just spoonfeed to yourself, fuck.
>What would your ideal MMO be like?
I don't think there's an ideal MMO for me, I don't really have the time to invest in them anymore. But I would love to see the next generation playing things that have some of the great features of certain older games. Openness of SWG and UO, combat of Darkfall, thematic appeal and static content of old WoW, PVP of Asheron's Call or Shadowbane, economic and political struggles of EVE, feeling of danger of mobs in EverQuest... They don't have to be packed in the same game.
>>340758831
>Rift was a great
WAS being the key word
>>340758282
Currently playing FFXI, it's quite a satisfying MMO. I picked the server with the most players in (Odin). Got a friend to join me and we're focusing on leveling up to unlock support jobs.
>>340780870
Gnome Ranger. I didn't play that much but I remember a quest to get my ranger gear and I just loved it to death.
How do you guys feel about Tera?
I've always wanted to get into an MMO but never could since I don't have any friends that would get into it with me so I figured I'd solo for a while until I met some people in a FTP.
Anyone play LOTRO before F2P and Mirkwood?
It was sort of sad that when WoW came out, they pushed the release date to make it into a WoW clone, completely changing the game. But it was an alright game nevertheless, damn nice atmosphere, music, all that, and the roleplaying community was alright. It was more of a casual MMO though the dungeons were pretty hard, but they weren't really the main focus of the game anyway. Group content in the outside world (quests) was pretty fun, too. - not quite the EQ style of group leveling but some of the group hubs and quests you had to do with a fellowship were a great social thing.
Too bad they ruined it. Mirkwood was damn boring, maybe due to lack of content, and the F2P was the final nail in the coffin. Fucking giftboxes out of the ass everywhere and every time you start a quest you are asked if you want to pay real money to get teleported to the quest area, lel.
>>340781325
Tera is probably the worst MMO with the best combat system.
How they handled the action combat, especially for melee classes, is exceptional and incredibly fun, but the game is awful, you grind the same faceroll dungeons over and over and in the end it's pretty much just a dress up your Elin simulator.
The combat is really fucking great though.
>>340765632
lazyfixer?
>>340781638
What would be the best f2p mmo out there then? I just wanna explore a cool world and build a cool character.
Is FFXIV good for a casual? I'm just looking for something nice to play a little bit everyday.
>>340758282
Virgins, and lolifags. I am tired probably grown man rolepalying as lolis and supermodells in skimpy dresses, because they can't get close to an actual female.
I just want to play an MMO where I do the slashing. I guess you could call it action-mmo.
And I don't want skimpy dresses, I want to be a spiky edgelord dammit!
Is this too much to ask for?
>>340774556
It has potential but so far the gameplay videos have been really fucking boring. Here's to hoping they make it less slow when they exit alpha
>>340758282
>What ruined MMOs?
The removal of interaction
average single player rpg games with other people in the background aren't fun
>>340782058
The core Guild Wars 2 game is free and probably one of the better MMOs right now despite all of it's flaws. Your next best option would probably to just try out WoW, buy the battle chest with all the expansions and get one month of free playing time and see if you like it, then maybe get Legion. It's not free though obviously.
If you just want to play a game where you can play a cool character with lots of build choices and don't mind playing an action RPG in a more singleplayer setting with co-op functionality I can recommend Path of Exile, which is a modern twist on the best things about Diablo 2, but better. The developers are really based as well and it's not pay to win at all.
>>340782174
No.
>>340760792
Don't bother, it's a matter of time now until NCSoft pull the plug.
Is camelot going to be good? They're being awfully jewish already.
>>340783687
It's the only game I still have hopes for, but due to the NDA and the delays noone really knows what's going on right now. They were teasing a big announcement for next weeks update though, so maybe we finally get some info on when beta 1 starts.
>>340758282
>What ruined MMOs?
Catering to solo players, causing two things:
>large swaths of content with no reason to group with other players
>the death of the trinity/any system based off the trinity. Zero need to coordinate with other players, it's like you're playing through content that just so happens to have other people in it
Insane practices like B2P/P2P games having a cash shop, p2w bullshit, etc.
Clinging to old systems (namely leveling and XP).
>How do we fix them?
"We" don't. Just hope something good comes out.
>What would your ideal MMO be like?
Sandbox with zero NPCs, default towns, etc. (except possibly a small tutorial area or whatever). The game world is just one big wilderness.
Survival elements, i.e. hunger.
Collect and craft gear/potions/food/etc., build buildings and towns.
Horizontal progression, you can become more versatile but not explicitly stronger in most cases
Wide variety of unique player races. Not just texture-swapped humans, stuff that would have unique playstyles. Mostly human/animal hybrids like Centaurs, Harpies, etc.
Roaming bosses as the "end-game" content
Open-world PvP, except for some caveats. For example, players with a history of aggression would be unable to see new players or players who have recently died. A certain building would disable PvP in a radius around it. Stuff like that to curb griefing
Basically a sandbox to end all sandboxes.
>What MMOs are you currently playing/waiting for?
Not playing anything right now
I'm waiting for Gloria Victis to become more fleshed out, I'll see how it's doing every few months
Crowfall looks okay
Soul Worker Online looks okay
Camelot Unchained looks okay
>>340784175
>Clinging to old systems (namely leveling and XP).
You had me until this.
I miss Shadowbane.
>>340784175
Have fun with your empty game you fucking faggot.
They did the exact same shit with Xyson and look where that game is now.
Sandboxes are shit. You sandbox fags don't really know what you want or else games like Darkfall, Mortal Online, The Repopulation, Dragon's Prophet, and Earthrise would be BEAMING with players right now. You literally had devs who bought into your bullshit pumping out games like this in a 4 year run around 2009- 2013 and non of those games are being talked about or being mentioned here like they've completely disappeared in existence.
Anyone here played T4C ?
Takes this, and make it slightly more appealing graphicness so that people might try it, and that's IT.
>WoW ruined mmos
Players ruined mmos. They wanted it and like any smart company did was cater to their needs. Look at asia and their list of shitty jewish mmos. Those chinks are okay with shitty content, pay2win out the ass, and lack of communication with their fans.
People act as if a video game company will come out of nowhere with great practices, won't jew their fans, will learn to make their own creative decisions while listening to the fans, and some other shit. Oh and the "perfect mmo" seems to be f2p. Which in this world is impossible without them fucking you hardcore in the ass.
>>340784924
>graphicness
graphicwise*
>>340784947
>Oh and the "perfect mmo" seems to be f2p. Which in this world is impossible without them fucking you hardcore in the ass.
Absolutely, I hate it that today, a lot of games are judged for not being f2p when "similar" f2p games exist. I won't even go into details about "which sort of gamers" the f2p one seems to attract.
When was it okay to expect free games? When did people stop understanding that most games are made to make money. Is it because of the indie games bloom we had? I mean its perfectly fine for some stand-alone beginner studio to create something free + donation so that it can better itself but this shouldn't be the norm, and these dev won't stay free forever. How the hell are they supposed to continu their work without money.
>>340758282
>What ruined MMOs?
Casuals that only care about progression quest and collecting the next shiny item
>How do we fix them?
Adopt a model very similar to ultima online ~second age era
>What would your ideal MMO be like?
Basically a revamped version of ultima online
Skill based system (crafting is harder to level but weapon skills took 30ish mins to max out completely)
Full loot
Entire world pvp (none of that pve/pvp zones)
Magic system similar to UO as well
>What MMOs are you currently playing/waiting for?
None.
No new MMOs have caught my attention.
>I will never be able to go back in time to play UO for the first time
What made UO so amazing was the environment that it had created, Much of the "content" was created by the players interacting with eachother. All the way from the boring ganking of some guy mining to raiding dungeons and preparing to deal with the gank squad coming for your loot after you clear the dungeon
>>340784697
>You sandbox fags don't really know what you want
Nobody knows what they want until they get it. The good sandbox fags will usually point to like XI or something as a solid baseline and they always end up making a WoW clone instead.
http://mud.co.uk/richard/The%20Decline%20of%20MMOs.pdf
>Richard Allan Bartle PhD, FRSA (born 10 January 1960 in Ripon, England) is a British writer, professor and game researcher, best known for being the co-creator of MUD1 (the first MUD) and the author of the seminal Designing Virtual Worlds. He is one of the pioneers of the massively multiplayer online game industry.
Guild Wars 2 is fun. Sue me.
>>340787675
>I enjoy the taste of poop
>sue me.
>>340758282
>Makes an MMO thread
>Posts a game that is not an actual MMO
>>340758282
>How do we fix them?
By making parties mandatory to level up. No party finding algorithm.
Instance as little as possible. Auction house or economy should be player-driven and bind-on-equip or bind-on-pickup should be used sparingly (particularly, to combat RMT).
>>340763330
everyone has very found memories of an mmo they played before, we are effectively chasing the dragon.
>>340777958
>Conflating "quality" with "popularity"
Kill yourself. Ideally, leave Justin Bieber on the stereo on repeat so your mom will hear it upon discovering your dead body in her basement.
anyone here tried albion online? i played it for the first few weeks and it was fun. just waiting for the reset next month gonna be comfy as fuck
>>340787471
Interesting read, thanks for the link.
>>340788839
Making it a cell phone game kills it
>>340788839
The fact it's a crossplatform cellphone game means it won't have any depth and rely on being casual and jewish.
>>340771629
>>340771117
>"I'm the ideas guy, you should listen to me"
>>340787734
Well memed my man.
>>340789026
>>340789157
from what i heard their intention wasn't for you to do complex shit like pvp on tablets/phones just the basic pve/farming/auction stuff
Seems comfy to me like going to do some farming stuff on your island in a lunch break at work
Korean MMOs have so much potential that is completely ruined by fucking greedy companies. I'm looking forward to Revelation and Lost Ark Online.
Especially Lost Ark. It takes a lot of the fun aspects from lots of great games and mashes them all up. It's an isometric diablo style MMORPG, with mon hun elements and an open world. I've learned not to look forward to KMMOs because they're always P2W grindfests, but I'm hoping one of these two does something to break the trend. If not I will probably give up on MMOs for good.
>>340758282
>What ruined MMOs
World of Warcraft really started it with the emphasis on the single player. Many (if not all) earlier MMOs put players into a world where they weren't the most important entity. I remember when EverQuest had its first expansion, and the high elf king NPC was seen in the world for the first time. There was some assassination attempt by other NPCs, huge battle breaks out, all that. The point is, that the -players- weren't the important narrative figures there. They were just adventurers in this world.
World of Warcraft introduced this notion that YOU, the player, were the most important figure in the world. YOU saved the NPC kings, not the other way around... only that doesn't work in a multiplayer experience.
You can't all be the one true chosen warrior....
>How do we fix them?
That's a big question. I agree with this stuff though:>>340771736
You have to put the emphasis back on the idea that players are just pieces in this world. That everyone gets to have -different- adventures, because the quest lines that all culminate with the same "epic finish" lose their luster when everyone has the same stories to tell.
In line with that, I also agree with a lot of the stuff that's been said here about needing to expand on non-combat roles. Owning a shop, running a business, or even having a personal life (family / housing) shouldn't be an afterthought. Again, they'll tell -different- stories.
>What would your ideal MMO be like?
Again, big question.
>depth of reputations from EQ (being able to rep up and down with any faction, and -every- sentient group has a faction)
>Approach to exploration and danger from FFXI
>Approach to dungeon building from Classic World of Warcraft (Black Rock Depths, Stratholm, Scholomance... all of these dungeons have -great- character).
>What MMOs are you currently playing/waiting for?
None. Until they get away from theme parks, I can't play them anymore.
>>340785272
>When was it okay to expect free games?
We're living in the entitlement age anon. Just look at the website and board you're browsing. You see it literally fucking EVERYWHERE.
So Skyforge isn't on Steam. Why do I think Skyforge was on Steam? Was it on Steam for a short time and removed or something, or am I making shit up?
>>340758831
This. RIFT was amazing. The raids were probably the most fun I ever had in PvE with an MMO, even more 'immersive' and exciting than WoW raids. Shame it turned into what it did.
>Action combat
Can we stop with this meme now? It has become obvious that it can't make a mmo good; mmos are games where you expect to play for extended periods of time which means that having a twitch based combat is tiring, there are still problems with lag and there will be for a long time yet, this belief that the combat system is so essential to a mmo is part of the problem, what we need are mechanics that encourage complex player interactions and long term commitment.
>>340784279
You're right. Traditional WoW questing is a better example.
Your world should exist as more than just a railroad to funnel your players towards the end-game material. If your entire game boils down to "fight this spider. Okay now fight it again, but it's blue and 3 levels higher. okay now its red and 10 levels higher. okay now futz about in PVP until we can think of a color we haven't made the spiders yet and bump up the level cap another 10."
Similarly, the kinds of quests. If it's not Kill, Fetch, Deliver, or Escort, then it's lying on some intern's desk as he packs his belongings for daring to suggest something other than the sacred 4.
Over-reliance on combat is another, I feel. Things like Echo Bazaar and The Secret World, or heck, even LOTRO with its Deeds have quests that are a lot more about exploring and interacting with the world than about fighting. So as such, their quests don't follow the: "collect 7 beast talons so I can make it into a necklace, then deliver that necklace to the prince of bonerland" formula
I could even go into how one encounter's quests. Both Everquest and even Fallout did a pretty decent job in a lot of ways. You don't just walk through town and talk to everybody with a question mark over their head, skipping all their dialogue then check your questlog to see what they actually wanted. You can just run into neat things, out in the open, and all of a sudden, you're looking for the owner of a ring, or leading a lost child home, or figuring out what exactly was that alien ship you found crashed in the middle of nowhere?
And quests don't have to be "quests." See a wounded deathclaw stalk and kill a wastelander, you walk up and on him, there's the deathclaw gauntlet schematics? Log entry or not, you just got handed the plans for concentrated awesome. You will go and build it. It becomes a goal you work towards. It's a quest.
>>340784175
Isn't that Second Life? Everything player generated, one big sandbox?
I don't know how well it fits, but I feel ARK: Survival Evolved is worth mentioning in this thread simply because while it is not an MMO at all, it shares a lot of similar elements and I feel that if MMO's took some of the ideas from this game and made a much larger scale version it could be a truly revolutionary MMO.
>>340768641
This, I really feel like as availability of information came out MMOs got worse and worse. It's simply too easy now to just lookup the best build, where the find the best gear or how to do certain difficult activities. it really guts the progression feeling MMOs use to give. Datamining is brutal too but in my opinion it's more the ability to backlog and exchange information that changed everything.
>>340779761
they mail all that shit back to you. Did you never look in your mailbox?
>>340758282
WoW turned MMOs into single player games and managed to kill the community aspect of them.
Will Nexon talk about any MMO this E3 or they will just shill GiTS?
>>340771536
IMC went full jew even before the game was released, you never go full jew that fast.
Nexon should have published it.
>>340787471
>If MMOs continue as they are, then a few years from now people will wonder
why they were ever considered to be anything special. The first developer able to
remind them will become very successful indeed.
3 years since that and nothing has changed.
3 years from this video too
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nvK8fua6O64
>>340758282
Bring back the grind and the "poor design".
>>340790253
>depth of reputations from EQ
God how I missed this shit. Made the game feel truly alive with rivalries. It gave you more RP character development where you can choose your allies and so forth and who you want to help and who you want to raise reputation with. Work hard enough in EQ busting your ass off gaining reputation and you can be a human ShadowKnight being accepted into Dark Elf city and inner circles.
I also liked how your character was just some random fucking kill-hobo and you have no part in some grand warfare between nations. You're just some faggot who is coincidentally apart of an empire hated by another empire and are racists, you just want to get loot. You can group with Ogres as a gnome and so forth. Not this Alliance vs Horde crap.
One thing I want to add. Factions that have a purpose instead of just not attacking you when they see you. You get benefits for building up that reputation like extra quests, unique trade items etc.
>>340758282
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jqhvTlR1WSc
>>340781276
He said before EQ 2 and WoW, nerd. Gnomes and Halflings didn't get the Ranger class 'til much later on.
>>340758282
For me what ruined MMOs is society itself, we don't need help from others anymore, since we can search for our own on the internet for the quickest and 100% guaranteed methods of obtaining something, any new MMO that requires dedication like they used too won't work anymore, now people want to play games that can be finished in less than a week, also game devs want you to buy the sequel and future expansions as fast as possible for a full price for the minimum amount of effort.
I would not really recommend anything right now if you want something with an old school feeling of adventure, however what I'm playing at the moment is FFXIV, which is entertaining at least, has some effort put into it in regarding visuals and music, gameplay is meh but it's something I can do on weekends when I'm not working and still be up to date with the rest of the people doing latest content.
https://youtu.be/NDwcGCGF-ZA
>What ruined MMOs
Automated group mechanics
>How do we fix them
Create a game world that is challenging to solo, easier in groups, and don't cater to whales
>What would your ideal MMO be
More character building and roleplaying focused and less boss loot grinding with advance economic and mechanical requirements to become godlike and less grinding
>what MMO are you currently playing/waiting for
Playing Haven and Hearth, waiting for CoE
I just want an MMO with a good summoner class that isnt PWI
Help me /v/
TERA Mystics are okay-tier, but the summons aren't the main part of the class, and they get outshined by Priests...
>>340793118
>Don't cater to whales
So, a financially unsuccessful MMO, then.
Good luck with that.
>>340790931
Please respond.
How is WoW these days as a casual, log-in-and-fuck-around-sometimes MMO? How's Legion shaping up?
>>340793118
>>340793352
If the game is fun, whales will come no matter what. Whales isn't some gameplay-specific demographic.
>>340792581
>They wont talk about Maplestory 2
>>340793118
>don't cater to whales
Look what happened to Skyforge.
They placed a system where you are limited to how much you can level and grind per week so they can "give normos casual scum nuggets a chance" and the dedicated basement dwelling hamplanets just didn't see the point or the benefit in spending all that time if they level accordingly to those who don't play as often.
>>340793118
I personally won't play an MMO without a groupfinder ever again if PvE is a major focus
>>340791404
I mean... it allows multiplayer servers, that can go up to like, 32 I think.
It's not "massive" multiplayer, but it is like, "huge" multiplayer.
>>340793857
Why, group finder content has never -ever- been good.
You could replace the group with NPCs and you pretty much have the same experience.
>>340791490
see, the problem here is in /having/ a best build to look up.
If they'd just balance their games properly, that wouldn't be such a problem, would it? It would just be more a case of, "what fits my playstyle the best."
Monster Hunter is good about this.At worst you might have something like "best against this one particular monster, because its made to really capitalize on its main weakness, or resist its main threat" So like.. fighting a gigginox? Poison immunity definitely a major boon. But then again, just being really dodgy so its attacks never hit, or blitzkrieging the everliving balls off the thing so it dies before you die to the poison are also just as viable a strategies if you just really happen to lean in those directions.
Bring back massive, world spanning quests and oldschool style world design.
I fucking miss the tedious shit in EQ1, but I also miss exploring those dungeons with friends.
>>340792956
100% agree with reputations benefits, but be careful. Quests and items as rewards is exactly what WoW did to kill the genre. You have to make it more interesting than that.
Integrate some sort of variation on trading. Request donations for whatever you want. people that give them to you can also gain faction rep with the faction you represent.
Give something like access to new zones. Something akin to "the kings woods" or "the burial lands of the founding kings" or something. Some place to explore that's not direction given.
Basically just remake this and I would play it forever until expansions inevitably ruin it
>play EQ2 a few years back
>no idea what I'm doing as my first serious MMO was vanilla WoW but get to around early 20s just questing about and having an okay time
>stop playing
>don't remember shit any of the times I went back to play
>>340793263
Mystics are top tier this patch. They aren't really summoners though, they just happen to have somewhat useful situational pets.
>>340793728
Whales refers to a hefty-spending group
>>340763881
>Communities don't make games.
Go to the blizzard forums right after the Crusaders expansion, then after lich king, so on and so forth. The problem is that blizzard listened to the community.
>>340792856
I feel like mobile and mmo are both falling into the same kind of trap.
And both have squandered potential. Though mobile maybe moreso, since it fell into the trap almost immediately since its birth.
>>340795549
Their balance is not important, what's important to me here is that they're a very poor Summoner class.
>>340795661
Blizzards issue, not the vocal minority.
>>340795738
Tera's not the game for you then. Maybe try GW2's necromancers, or the various pet classes in Rift.
>>340795672
Candy Crush was the WoW ruiner equivalent I feel.
>>340758282
>What ruined MMOs
Mass-appeal. Or as >>340758542 put it, normies.
The moment WoW went huge, publishers realized there was a bunch of money in MMOs, but didn't realize that WoW was an exception.
>How do we fix them?
The players can't do shit. Retards don't want to work for things anymore, and the devs have decided to cater to them.
>What would your ideal MMO be like?
DDOnline, but withbosses that aren't reused from DD, and with more TECHNOLOGYreleased in the west. Although, you can argue that DDO isn't an MMO.
>What MMOs are you currently playing/waiting for?
None of them. I'm half playing DDO, but past level 30, it's like banging your head against a wall unless you play with others. It's not that the grind is bad, it's just that pawns are nigh useless (especially Shield Sage pawns), so you'll spend a good chunk of time wailing on a single boss and then wipe due to a stupid mistake. With other people, you have an easier time because it's not AI, and they can revive you.
I guess I'm a bit of a hypocrit, as I don't party up with others, but I don't want to risk getting banned.
I wanted to give black desert a shot, but there was no way I was going to pay $30 for a game I was gonna leave in a month.
Looks like I made the right decision too, game looks dead as fuck. Sucks though, since it looked pretty fun and had top tier waifus.
>>340792856
this same thing is happening to a lot of the media industry, really.
look at blockbuster films.
>>340774184
Movement and attacking is very weird at first but you get used to it. It might take you a few play sessions to get fully used to it. I'm on Mari if you want to start there
>What ruined MMOs?
Some stuff being too complicated and other being too simple
>How do we fix them?
Bring SW Galaxies back
>What would your ideal MMO be like?
Space exploration, planets, kinda like SW Galaxies
>What MMOs are you currently playing/waiting for?
Currently downloading LOTRO
>>340758282
>What ruined MMOs?
wow and everquest
>How do we fix them?
stop copying wow and everquest
>What would your ideal MMO be like?
webm related
>What MMOs are you currently playing/waiting for?
webm related
For an 11 year old game, it aged quite well
>Prophecies was released the April 26, 2005
>>340758282
I just want MMOs to remember that the appeal of these games is supposed to be that it's MASSIVELY MULTIPLAYER.
When the game is so fucking mindless and other players might as well be bots while you're walked through this "YOU ARE THE CHOSEN ONE" main story quest, what's the fucking point? Why would I want to play this and not a dedicated singleplayer game?
>>340758282
MMO genre is fucking dead.
>>340792856
So... how does one make a sandbox that is F2P that isn't P2W? If there's no rides to buy tickets to, and no railroad to buy speed upgrades for, the only thing left is selling advantage over other players, a la EVE. Which is especially odd, because EVE isn't even F2P. They're just hyper jew, I guess.
>>340792856
I wonder, will Star Citizen be the EVE killer?
>>340758282
>What ruined MMOs?
Wikis
>>340797357
dataminers and wikis are a big contribution to the death of mmos. This is true
>>340794702
A game did do that.
It's calledDragon's Dogma Online.It's frustrating to do content without other players, trust me. The AI is actually pretty decent, but it's much harder to progress at a consistent rate than if you play with other players. And that's because, at the end of the day, AI just can't really match up to players in more action-combat game.
>>340796245
Same, all I wanted to do was explore the world and fap to my waifu but I'm not paying $30 for that. I played the closed beta and it was fun though, just wished it had a sale or went f2p soon.
MMOs are ruined for the some reason video games as a whole have gone to shit. The cost of production is too high to make anything that doesn't pander to "casuals."
>buy FF XIV
>try to complete main story
>wait 40 minutes for the Garuda fight
>1/4 party members
This is suffering, why is this allowed
>>340758282
MMO's were ruined since their birth. The idea was great, but human nature is not compatible with this kind of gaming, trolls and powergamers will ruin the game world for themselves and for everyone else.
>>340771117
>>340771629
>>340772439
>>340773234
Stop anon, just stop. I can only take so much cancer on a daily basis.
