Who's more evil, the Unity or the Enclave?
The Enclave did nothing wrong
The Master literally did nothing wrong
United States of America
The Enclave
The Master blows himself up if you convince him he's evil, the Enclave doesn't do that
>>340525781
Well evil isn't really an objective concept anon.
They both believed they were building a better world, although both wanted to do that in a pretty retarded way.
The Unity wanted to forcibly changed everyone into mutated abominations. Although it's worth noting that most of them were pretty content about the change afterwards, even those who had their intelligence left intact.
The Enclave wanted to genocide the whole world and replace everybody with their own men.
So I guess the Enclave was worse, as their radical views were pretty much unjustified and Unity did want to "help" people in it's own twisted way. On the other hand this fucking cutscene comes automaticaly comes to my mind:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m_y4Ao5L6G8
But at the end of the day I guess it all comes down to what you personally believe to be more evil.
>>340525781
Unity had good intentions but poor execution.
Enclave were just a band of selfish dicks.
>>340525781
neither were "evil"
>>340525781
Atleast the Enclave didn't send me to some massive radiation pit as a joke. Thanks BoS
>>340526880
It was a genuine trial not a joke.
But it was a "fuck off and die" trial since they probably had a lot of retards ask to join.
Why does the enclave shoot the family of unarmed vault citizens in the fo2 intro when they need them alive
>>340526110
what about that abortion of science?
>>340526856
Enclave definitely was.
They pretended that they did not commit inhumane experiments, wholesale slaughter and planned genocide, because none of the vicitms were even human in their eyes, and dehumanization of your opponent/victim is the hallmark of the worst kinds of fascism.
They were literally nazi-evil.
The Enclave.
The Unity at the very least had good intentions, the Enclave was literally about slaughtering everyone who wasn't them on an arbitrary basis.
>>340527034
It's clarified in the Fallout bible. Basically the breaching soldiers were trigger happy in the same way some IRL police officers are, and gunned them down then lied to their superiors that they were "resisting".
>>340526110
You didn't convince The Master that his plan was evil, just that it wouldn't work in the long term.
>>340527632
>some IRL police officers are
*American police officers.
>>340527762
Yeah it was less "kill urself my man ur the baddy " and was more about revealing the fact that all the horrific, monstrous things he'd done in the name of the Unity in the name of the "greater good" were absolutely pointless because the greater good could not objectively occur in the end anyway, and it was all doomed to fail.
>>340527313
All of the Enclave actions were committed for the greater good
Imagine if Enclave had won, this could be the new fresh start for the human race
we could become perfect again or ever more than that
ghouls? already a lost cause
mutants? threat and nothing else
wasteland humans? most of them are radiated and impure
The Enclave wasn't evil.
They were just trying to preserve humanity.
>>340528210
>wasteland humans? most of them are radiated and impure
See yeah that's where it starts to fall apart a bit.
Most of the seriously radiated ones die anyway, so it doesn't matter.
But what the fuck does "impure" mean outside of their own arbitrary definitions of mutation? What possible downsides are there that make a waster different from a vault dweller?
>>340528224
>They were just trying to preserve humanity.
...by killing it.
>>340528458
>not saving humanity by killing all humans
>No Enclave option in FO3
I did love nuking the fucking Citadel though.
>>340528351
>What possible downsides are there that make a waster different from a vault dweller?
birth defects
>>340528458
By killing the parts that weren't human anymore.
>>340528726
of which we see no indication of outside of seriously irradiated people.
The average NCR citizen is no different to a Vault dweller outside of totally arbitrary definitions made up by the enclave.
>>340528458
By killing what they saw as impure mutants.
nothing wrong with fascism though
>>340528720
You literally have to be born into Enclave.
>>340528951
Which is literally everyone who wasn't them.
>Advanced Power Armor made by people scared shitless by radiation has lower rad resistance than the pre-war power armors used by the BoS
Explain this
>>340528912
>of which we see no indication of outside of seriously irradiated people.
the risk is greater than the reward
It's safer to purify everything and after that start buillding the new world
>The average NCR citizen
filth, you should post vc as an example if you must
the master had good intentions but fucked up. hard.
Enclave were purists that wanted to purge everyone.
>>340529286
Yes. From their point of view they were the only lasting remnants of pure humanity.
The Enclave are hypocrites.
>We must kill anyone even slightly different from us!
>Horribly mutated and brainwashed cyborg Super Mutant Frank Horrigan, go kill everyone we don't like!
>Heil Hitler!
>>340529934
Chances are Frank is sterile so there's no threat of breeding. He's the enclaves house nigger.
>>340529340
>the risk is greater than the reward
In literally what way? By the time of New Vegas there's no serious problem where 1 out of every 5 is deformed or disabled. Everyone is fine for the most part upon birth.
>and after that start buillding the new world
What, like the NCR and the rest of the Wasteland had already been doing by the time the Enclave turned the gas pipe on?
>>340529934
>Horribly mutated and brainwashed cyborg Super Mutant Frank Horrigan, go kill everyone we don't like!
he was a true patriot, loyal, committed to the cause, hed respect for authorities
therefore he deserves better
>>340529934
In the Fallout Bible, it's basically said that the Enclave viewed Frank as a weapon rather than a person. He was like a living nuke.
Also being on Frank's squad was like a punishment deployment for soldiers, as everyone was freaked out around him.
>>340530318
Seriously, I hate to defend Fallout 3 but the Enclave had more of a legit reason for wanting to clean out the DC Wasteland than they did in Fallout 2 for wanting to clean out the West Coast. Civilizations were restarting and thriving on the West Coast, while over in DC everyone is still living in their own shit, to the point that having control over the fresh water supply as a way to kickstart civilization again honestly makes sense.
Fallout 2 Enclave was full retard. Fallout 3 Enclave minus Eden was smart. Eden was full retard. And the rest of Fallout 3 was full retard.
The Enclave. They were played as (arguably effective) straight up villains in Fallout 2. Everyone's either afraid of freaked out over them, the tone of the game changes drastically when they get more heavily involved, they fuck up your home, and when you're first introduced to them they murder people on sight. They also can't be convinced to stand down.
>>340530593
You're looking at it from the wrong way.
The Enclave in Fallout 2 also had a legitimate reason for cleansing the Wasteland, they genuinely believed that Wasters born with minute genetic variation qualified them as non-human mutants that needed to die for the reconstruction of the true human race. Their definitions were arbitrary and bigoted, and it was way overkill, but their motivations are something that has literally happened in real life applied to different parameters (i.e the Nazis) and it made internally consistent sense. It's not bad writing, it's just the way that the Enclave are. They're twisted, evil, elitist genetic supremacist fucks, but they're not poorly written.
>>340530318
the main goal was to erase the imperfections completely so
>1 out of every 5 is deformed or disabled
is not an option
like i said, the risk was simply too high, radiation can damage anyone's dna and those cannot work as a seed for the future pure humans generations
>What, like the NCR and the rest of the Wasteland had already been doing by the time the Enclave turned the gas pipe on?
unstabilised barbarians, degenerates, drug addicts, cannibals, animals
damaged beyond repair, irredeemable
>>340531087
>They're twisted, evil, elitist genetic supremacist fucks
but in the end human race would have become better thanks to them
>>340530593
>>340531087
The Enclave were legit evil, but I at least knew what they wanted (to basically cleanse the wasteland of muties). I still have no idea what the Enclave in Fallout 3 was about, Eden wanted to poison the water but Colonel Autumn rebelled, for some reason?
>>340531087
Oh, I wasn't arguing that the Enclave were poorly written and I agree with what you said. I'm just saying, they actually had a somewhat good idea in Fallout 3 were the DC ruins a complete shithole than they did in Fallout 2. I think it's a case of poor writing on Bethesda's part accidentally turning out decent in a sea of shit though.
>>340531548
bethesda
>>340530593
>Fallout 2 Enclave was full retard.
Found the mutie scum.
>>340531548
Eden still followed the Enclave's goals back in Fallout 2 of wanting to genocide everyone. Autumn wanted to rebuild society as it stands but remain in control of the populace by controlling the water supply. It was an idealogical conflict but Autumn's ideals actually seem like a good idea.
Enclave wasn't evil.
From their point of view they were the last remaining hope for humanity's survival.
>>340532460
The Enclave and the Chinese were the reasons the world was so fucked in the first place. The people responsible for the destruction of the world and causing the mutations that they hate so much shouldn't be trusted to be the last hope for humanity.
>>340532678
>The people responsible for the destruction of the world and causing the mutations that they hate so much shouldn't be trusted to be the last hope for humanity.
mistakes into miracles
