ITT: What Makes the Perfect Hack and Slash?
Cuhhhrazzyyy
fun
>fast
>difficult
>rival fight
>>340200294
depth, so you aren't just mashing one or two buttons and doing the same moves all game, also >>340200647, especially the rival fight
>>340200294
>fast
>shit tons of enemies
>xD lol so random xDDD character
>Blood splashing everywhere
>easy as fuck
>>340200294
Knowing that DMC is not a Hack n' Slash game.
>all these people saying rival fight
>was thinking of doing that in a possible sequel, as to not complicate the first/only game
>>340201513
Character Action is the most retarded genre name.
There hasn't been one yet. The genre is in it's infancy and all the games reward mashing too much, and have retarded/slow enemies.
Weapons and monsters
It needs a dual wielding, death/revenge obsessed teenager who is so le fucking psychotic and hardcore he laughts as he kills enemies and they are like
>NANI?!
and he's like
>BUKKAKE
and unfitting jrock plays in the background also ultra deep combat system that requires whole 3 buttons to use.
I love Japan they are masters of gaming :3
>>340201810
>and have retarded/slow enemies
THIS
how is the player supposed to feel like elite warrior if he basically kills mentally challenged enemies? Hack and slash games are basically bullying simulators.
>>340200380
One and done /thread.
>>340202007
>>340201810
Yeah, the offense is great in DMC... But defense is shit and enemies all have down syndrome.
>>340201810
>>340202007
So how would you guys suggest a balance between yourself being an elite warrior, without tard enemies?
Can anyone tell me why the DMC series has the best combat in the genre but the worst level design as well? Every DMC is "THAT part" the game. I play them like once every two years because the level design ruins the replay value. I fucking hate/love DMC.
>>340202505
They should attack faster and deal some actual damage, gang up on the player instead of surrounding him just to attack one after the other like in 80's action movie for starters. If the player can't git gud he should fuck right off.
>>340202505
More robust defense options for the player to allow enemies more aggression/more offense. Strong ranged options for most/all enemies.
>>340200294
Don't call them that you will trigger Diablo fags
>>340203045
So what would you say about counters? Ranged counters?
>>340200647
This, but also
>Depth
>Customizability
>Diverse enemy types and environments
>Opportunities to play creatively, like using the environment or enemies to your advantage
>Likeable characters, story or no
>Good story if it's there
I'm actually almost describing DmC, so even with Donte, they're doing something right.
>>340201607
Do it in the first game, then if you make a second, take it up a notch. Have the rival become more powerful somehow. As long as it's justified and ramps up the challenge factor, fans will eat it up.
>>340201859
I unironically love Sword Art Online, you son of a bitch.
>>340202007
>Dark Souls
>Blood Will Tell
>Phantasy Star Online 2/Universe/Portable on hard
>Down syndrome
W E W L A D
E
W
L
A
D
Main key: It needs to be for autistic children by autistic children.
>>340204771
>Dark Souls
in Dark Souls you can just run past every enemy aside from bosses so that's a terrible fucking example
>>340202753
So Ninja Gaiden?
>>340200294
Fast paced combat with long attack chains and lots of attack type versatility.
>>340201810
>what is Ninja Gaiden Black?
>>340200647
>>340200754
These. If you strip down the cuhrayzee genre down to their very basics, you have these.
Also:
>good enemy and boss design
>good weapon design
>>340204771
>dark souls
>action game
>a good game
no
>>340201625
It's stylish action
>>340205283
>cuhrayzee genre
What the fuck is the "cuhrayzee genre"? Is that even a word?
is CUHRAYZEE the most satisfying sound effect in the history of video games?
>>340200294
Depends on the type of game. DMC is more about doing stylish and cool combos on simple enemies, while Ninja Gaiden is just about quickly eliminating the enemies, because they are all super aggressive. But I'd say any action game ought to have:
>Satisfying combat animations. I want to feel satisfied when I perform certain moves. Nothing compares to the feeling of a million stab, successful real impact, or kick 13.
>Having a good variety of normal moves and specials that feel like they each play an important role. Honestly, Ninja Gaiden suffers from way too many superfluous combo moves. The Batman games only have the basic attack and counter buttons with a few situational counterattacks.
>Reward aggressive playstyles. Again Batman rewards playing it lame and just countering all the baddies.
>Have defensive or evasive moves prioritized, which leads to rewarding player skill and encouraging aggression. In DMC, when I'm wailing on a group of cannon fodder and an enemy is about to hit me from behind, I can jump cancel out of most of my moves to avoid the hit and then continue attacking. In batman, when you knock an enemy down, there is a finishing move prompt, but it is not usually a good idea to use it, because someone can hit you during the animation, and you can cancel out of the animation, which again leads to a very passive and defensive playstyle.
>>340205818
Yes.
>>340205683
Have you been living under a rock? It's just short-hand for what /v/ calls the genre that Devil May Cry, Ninja Gaiden, Bayonetta, etc. fall under.
Personally, I prefer "slash 'em up," or "style 'em up," but no one ever wants to use those.
>>340205881
dis nigga gets it
>>340205904
That's because those names are fucking retarded
>>340205904
Is God of War part of the cuhrayzee genre?
>>340202007
>Hack and slash games are basically bullying simulators.
That makes me like hack and slash more
>>340202678
GodHand suffers from that as well. The level design in that game is not fun, the combat being so fun only further emphasizes this feeling even.
>>340206028
Not really. You're just being a /v/irgin.
I like those names because they reflect that the genre is kind of an offshoot to old school beat 'em up games.
>>340200294
i started the dmc hd collection a few days ago. i loved 1 but 2 is a shitty baby tier game. i can't stand playing a series out of order but this game is putting me to sleep. can't wait to finish it so i can try 3.
>>340206145
Not really, no.
>>340202678
The level design in the first game and the third game are great. I have no idea what the hell that's supposed to mean.
>>340206145
Yes, unless you're from the /vg/ threads and have a completely arbitrary definition of the dumb phrase
Whether it's good or not is a seperate discussion
>>340206221
Try saying them out loud than go fuck yourself.
>>340206321
It's okay. Certainly better than GoW or Bloodrayne.
The action has to not be interrupted. For example, look at Shinovi Versus.
You're fighting against enemies, racking up your combo, then when you beat one wave, game stops to load so it can get the boss character in.
Shit like that is fucking un acceptable. Having to move from one area to another after clearing an area is fine as long as it's not too tedious or long since it's keeping playing field fresh.
Similarly, restarting has to be fast. If the game is challenging, people are going to die, and having to shit through loads of loading screens every time will be shitty.
>>340206145
Not even remotely.
>>340203107
DMC is a hack and slash game. Diablo is an ARPG. Get fucked shitters.
>>340206338
And they sound cooler than 'CUHRAYZEE' or 'character action'. >>340206338
Visceral reaction-based gameplay, tight and responsive controls (absolute must), skill variety for combo dynamism. Cuhrayzee cinemas don't hurt and weapon variety adds replay potential and new/interesting ways to play as you go
>>340206321
2 is considered pretty bad but it's also never really brought up story wise in any of the other games so I'd say you're free to skip it if you really want.
>all these dmc babbies with no tasteI miss DMC vs Ninja Gaiden threads
>>340206783
You NGfags didn't need a versus thread to have an excuse to ruin other series threads.
>>340205904
So it's just a bunch of nonexistence IPs (except Bayonetta)?
Name something that is "cuhrayzee" today.
>>340206854
Cause all these years later there's STILL no better game in the genre
>>340205904
>>340206028
>>340206221
"Stylish Action" game sounds fine.
Literally everything about bayonetta, if you consider it hack and slash.
>>340206943
If it really was so good there wouldn't only be a total 4 people at /v/ who played it. Just fuck off already no one gives a shit about NG
>>340207047
t. casual
>>340207010
I didn't know Bayonetta was simliar to Diablo.
>>340206910
>So it's just a bunch of nonexistence IPs (except Bayonetta)?
Devil May Cry and Ninja Gaiden are probably livelier than Bayonetta....
I mean, shit, DMC has altogether sold way more copies than any other cuhrayzee franchise.
>Name something that is "cuhrayzee" today.
The TMNT game that just came out made by Platinum. The Nier sequel coming out this year also made by Platinum.
Holy shit, why is it so hard to understand this? How come this board literally never seems to grasp this genre?
>>340207047
Didn't NGB actually sell pretty well for its time?
>>340207145
Diablo is an Action Role-playing Game(ARPG). Get over it.
>>340207047
>using /v/'s shit taste as a barometer for quality
>>340207246
Diablo has been defined as a hack and slash for years upon years, stop pushing your shit meme.
>>340200294
Remove Animation canceling and implement dynamic body adjustment to transition the attack strings. Thus certain moves can only effectively chained depending on your current body position/alignment.
>>340207296
Kek, fucking this. The vast majority of this board has no idea what the fuck they're talking about when it comes to this genre. We have people who seem to think that the Arkham games are cuhrayzee or are on the same level as cuhrayzee ffs.
>>340207404It's an interesting idea, but no. Maybe for something that wasn't cuhrayzee.
>>340207145
hack n slash is our genre's name, diablo is an ARPG
>the only real hack 'n' slash mmo is dying
>it barely shined
>>340207385
And Native Americans were called Indians for years. Times change.
Okay wait
If DMC and Diablo are in two diametrically opposed genres then what the fuck is Gauntlet
>>340207591
Not remotely comparable
>>340207150
>Japanese hack n' slash
Ok I get it now.
So a game like MGR is a cuhrayze game right? Oh and Senran Kagura.
>>340207469
>We have people who seem to think that the Arkham games are cuhrayzee or are on the same level as cuhrayzee ffs.
Doesn't help that you guys don't have a fucking consistent definition of it. Why the hell is Shinobu PS2 considered "cuhrayzee"? It's basically speedrunning: the game.
>>340207653
>So a game like MGR is a cuhrayze game right?
How new are you?
>>340207614
DMC = hack and slash
Diablo = arpg
Gauntlet = dungeon crawler
>>340207717
>Doesn't help that you guys don't have a fucking consistent definition of it. Why the hell is Shinobu PS2 considered "cuhrayzee"? It's basically speedrunning: the game.
I've never played it, but apparently there's actually a fair amount of depth to it if you play it a bit differently. You can't always play these games the way they're "supposed" to be played.
Like, fucking abusing Zandatsu in MGR is what you're supposed to do and you'll get a good rank that way, but it's also kind of a boring way to play it. If you wanted to, you could do far more than just that.
>>340207469
The point that mechanics is to make combo animation look natural, and thus something that looks like a dynamic action flick instead of a low budget stop animation.
And it helps to reduce the issue of arbitrary decision of which attacks would chain into each other.
>>340207876
>abusing Zandatsu is how you're supposed to play MGR
Yeah I guess to an extent, but it also neuters combo length which counts toward your rank so afaik you won't score super high if you "abuse" it
>>340208051
>The point that mechanics is to make combo animation look natural, and thus something that looks like a dynamic action flick instead of a low budget stop animation.
Bayonetta kinda does this already actually, though there are still animation cancels. But the animation is still overall more fluid and dynamic than DMC or Ninja Gaiden.
>And it helps to reduce the issue of arbitrary decision of which attacks would chain into each other.
Eh. Idk. I mean, fighting games already do the same shit, and cuhrayzee games are basically just single-player fighting games on a 3D plane where you fight loads more enemies and the occasional boss. Plus solve the occasional puzzle or do some platforming here and there.
>>340207653
Senran Kagura would quality if it placed less emphasis on crowds of enemies, and made individual ones more of a threat.
The style and action are all there, but it's more of a crowd fighter. It's a fun series, but I wish it was more polished, since shit like this kind of kills the experience sometimes.
Oneechanbara is more like one.
>>340200294
>Fast and fluid movement
>accurate hitboxes
>damage proportional to momentum (not full damage at the startup/end of an attack when the weapon hasn't even started moving/has stopped moving)
>unique and challenging enemies at all points in the game and no recycled movesets, upgraded enemies should reflect the level of skill required at the point of the game instead of just boosted hp/dmg
>A character equal fight (rival) to put your skills to the test
>at least one giant boss that requires indirect or unorthodox methods to defeat but is still very action-y
>Final boss as character equal in some regard (rival or otherwise) and should require you use everything in your arsenal without shitty gimmicks (big magic barrier so use your FISTS OF SMASHING™ to break it because that the only weapon that can)
>>340208178
True, but pretty sure you should be ending every fight with a Zandatsu or at least using it "healthily," since it does reward you a bunch for using it.
That you "need" to use it so often is one of the main criticisms a lot of people have for it actually. It kind of limits the game to an extent. Also slows it down.
>>340201607
>fight rival in the first game
>ambiguously imply that the rival survived
After that make the rival a playable character in the sequel, or make a new enemy that BTFO the old rival so that the player will want to avenge him.
Is Castlevania Lords of Shadow any good? I want a comfy CV game.
>>340207570
You can blame Nexon for killing it. Though if you pray hard enough, it might get the DFO treatment.
>>340208529
The plan I have involves gods making mortal bodies in case they die(in this gods can die) and you fight and kill the annihilation God in the first game, so he makes a mortal body to use, and at the end you break his hold of the body, and then the ex puppet would fulfill that role.
>>340208331
All of these, plus good weapon design.
This is kind of understated, but fairly obvious. Weapons should be varied and fun to use, with each having their own uses at some parts, but also with unique movesets or gimmicks. You should LOVE to use a certain weapon because it speaks to your playstyle or something.
>>340208439
It's the major thing that separates it from other action games. The point is to add a strategic element to crowd control and resource management in an (albeit vaguely) reminiscent manner to standard MGS. If you want an action game that plays more like DMC, go play DMC.
>>340202678
They were done in an era when videogames still had videogamey elements, so if your characters could jump well, then you needed to have a platforming segment. And the fetching quests are callbacks to Resident Evil and DMC1.
>>340208178
Speaking as someone who S-Ranked RV difficulty, you absolutely need to zandatsu the ffuck out of everyone
The way scoring works, number of zandatsu finishes are weighed equally against kills/combo/time
You might lose a few hits off your combo meter, but forgoing a few hits to get that Zandatsu was pretty fucking essential. There was only ever one fight (Sam on RV) where failing to get a high enough combo became a problem that you had to actively drag out the fight to get a high enough combo for the S-Rank score
>>340200294
gameplay that has both style and substance. quality and quantity.
>>340208817
I mean, sure, it does add a unique element to the genre, and it is fun to use, but it's far too easy to just soften the enemy up to weaken them for a Zandatsu. To be fair, MGR is pretty good about balancing the scoring system so that you can get all fancy without abusing Zandatsu, like I said. At least on lower difficulties.
Honestly my "issue" with MGR is that it just doesn't have the depth that DMC, NG, Bayonetta, or the W101 have. Though I still love it, don't get me wrong.
>>340200294
No. Fucking. Quick-time-events.
I'm sick of every god damn game after DMC3 to be bloated with shitty "Mash X to deal loads of damage bro!" and "Waggle the control stick to escape stun! Wuh-huh-hooh!"
That's crap. The less time I'm locked into animations doing gimmicky shit like that, the better.
Is Onechanbara any good? I remember some people hyping the game before it got a PS4 release a while back.
I would've picked this up right away but Senran Kagura released just few days earlier and I'm still playing that.
Does it have to be 3D?
>>340207570
Name?
>>340209149
>gameplay that has both style and substance.
This so hard. What a lot of people seem to forget somehow is that the whole genre is placated on the combat both oozing style and looking cool, along with it being technically demanding, asking for a lot of skill from the player, inviting it to go deeper into its combat systems, to master it.
>>340209260
Vindictus
What about that Korean mmo called Lost Ark Online? I hope it gets translated... Is there a beta yet?
>>340209207
No, Viewtiful Joe is 2D and is very much like any other cuhrayzee game.
>>340209167
>playing MGR blind on Hard, get to Monsoon
>adapt really well, parry countering, dodging the debris after falling for the misdirection only a couple times, using EMs etc.
>get to the QTE prompt that ends the otherwise great fight and I am so fucking stunned that I stall and get instakilled
I mean MGR is forgiving enough even on Hard for beating it first try not to be that impressive but fuck was I mad
>>340208814
Can't believe I forgot this. The thing is those weapons shouldn't be permanently bound to a gimmick though (unless it's a utility/movement type of thing). All weapons need to be capable to slaying your enemies. Not necessarily at equal strength, but I should be able to take nearly any enemy or boss down with my sword or my axe or my gun or a fireball.
>>340209723
Are you me?
Never had that much trouble with the Monsoon fight. I ONLY died against that fucking QTE.
Though honestly Platinum in general does QTEs better than other devs. The almost mandatory, "Rapid fire punches," QTEs in their games are fucking great honestly.
>>340209604
How much depth does VJ have compared to stuff like DMC/NG/Bayo though? Even Godhand and Vanquish get more talk than VJ does
>>340209756
>The thing is those weapons shouldn't be permanently bound to a gimmick though (unless it's a utility/movement type of thing)
What do you mean?
>Not necessarily at equal strength, but I should be able to take nearly any enemy or boss down with my sword or my axe or my gun or a fireball.
Agree completely with this.
Any western churayzee games out of curiosity?
>>340209878
I'm not sure. VJ's not really my game, but I've seen some combo videos and it gets talk on /cgg/ occasionally.
And yeah, Vanquish and God Hand also count, although Vanquish is also a TPS and God Hand is also more of a straight up beat 'em up.
>>340209198
Senran is better. We can battlle other waifus together
I've always thought that a good action game is more dependent on your enemies' available actions than the players', which is why NG gets my dick hard.
fun games
>>340209167
When did DMC3 have a QTE?
>>340210286
wut gaem?
>>340209854
>get to the "ora ora dude lol" QTE before the actual Senator fight
>raiden starts punching
>don't press the buttons.
>raiden punches like a downs syndrome toddler on molasses while Armstrong just stands there like a dipshit
>nothing progresses until I continuously hammer the action button like a spaz
Why? This isn't fun. When I played the game on its console launch it was okay but every time after, you can see how awful of a design it is. Just like the lead up to the Monsoon fight where you become slow as fuck and have to listen to him talk about memes. What the fuck. Aren't stylish hard games all about replay value?
Preferably one that doesn't have enemies that exist solely for the purpose of ruining your runs. Fuck the dwarf gekko in MGR:R. If one gets on you you might as well just restart because you're immobilized.
Also fuck the enemies who just stand at a distance firing guns that do .6 percent damage, which is still enough to lose an S rank.
>>340210604
Just skip the cutscenes.
>>340210604
>Why? This isn't fun. When I played the game on its console launch it was okay but every time after, you can see how awful of a design it is. Just like the lead up to the Monsoon fight where you become slow as fuck and have to listen to him talk about memes. What the fuck. Aren't stylish hard games all about replay value?
You know, you got a point there.
>>340201859
I'd love a completely stupid, over-the-top edgy hack 'n slash game.
>>340209950
>What do you mean?
Well, if you played LOZ:LTTP you probably remember the magic hammer. It was used to bash posts in or flip over armored turtles and to break that mask armor off the boss in the dungeon you got it in but had no real use other than that. It did OKish damage against other enemies but even a lvl 3 sword outclassed it in damage and other sub items had better utility in conjunction with the sword. Then there was the bow which you got way earlier that you still use constantly. It did great damage and was needed to kill some gimmicky enemies but you could use it effectively at any time. Weapons need versatility instead of a predefined purpose at certain parts of the game with damage tacked on as a bonus.
Cool flashy attacks with cool flashy effects to beat lots of enemies and big bosses with.
>>340211024
Oh, sure man.
By "gimmicks," I meant something like Durga in Bayonetta 1, Pandora in DMC4, stuff like that.
>>340206145
Yeah, it's just not very good.
>>340204771
Don't forget DMC1 as well
It triggers me how DMC1 is overshadowed by DMC3/4's combat. You might be able to get some juggling combos here and there, but you can not play DMC1 like 3 & 4. Every move is more of a tool, and you'd learn that by hard mode.
>>340206321
I remember when I had the same opinion as yours.
Then I found out that I had to replay the same game as Lucia to get to the ending.
You did well in playing the first one though.
>>340212452
>triggers
so you let yourself be infected by tumblr.
>>340212750
not if it's devil triggers m8
Fuck off with your retarded memewar shit
>>340206783
>2016
>Ninja Gaiden still needs VS threads so that their threads don't die after 10 replies
>>340212985
To be fair, NG is possibly deader than DMC. At least Capcom has maybe thrown out the possibility of making DMC5 at some point down the line, although that project with Reuben Langdon and the others turned out to be a fucking pachinko game.
There's no NG4 in sight.
