>Ludonarrative dissonance
>>340155108
What game even uses this exact term
>>340155108
This is a dangerous term because it sounds smart and makes you want to remember it, but it's actually about dumb video game crap
>>340155165
numales like tom jubert used it to demean fun games like GTA
>>340155108
Bioshock Infinite has a big case of Ludonarative Dissonance. And Uncharted has, too.
>>340155108
Muay Thai > Boxing
https://youtu.be/vMVhNUe-9L4?t=238
>>340155108
>>340155378
I have never heard of this term ever and I can only think that it is some kind of made up term created in the last couple of weeks or so.
>>340155451
Nah, it's not. It's just a fancy word for gameplay and story not connecting properly.
Like, Bioshock Infitine's violence and gore detracts from the story.
And in Uncharted, Nathan Drake is this likeable rogue. Whilst, in fact, he's just a ruthless murderer in gameplay.
It's just a disconnect between story and gameplay, which can detract form the overall experience.
>>340155653
it doesn't detract from anything you fucking retard
do you ride a bus and think that wheels are in dissonance with your walking speed so you can't really enjoy fun drive?
>ooh this movie is good, captured the jungle life perfectly
>but being in this air conditioned theatre with comfy seats creates a dissonance with what the characters are going through and it bothers me a lot
>>340155889
If you're not good at analogies, don't fucking post. This is just embarrassing.
>>340155889
No you idiot
It's focused on a detach from gameplay and narrative, and it's unique to games
Here's an example to help you understand
>fight boss
>beat him easily during the fight
>in the following cutscene the MC is struggling to not die and the boss almost kills you
>>340155889
I don't think you quite grasp the concept.
>>340155889
Are you actually playing the main character in there? Are you controller the gameplay and actual experience?
No
so Ludonarrative dissonance can't occur.
>>340155451
>>340155108
Best example is when you get to hyped up boss, easily oneshot him, but in cutscene you are shown desperately struggling and him effortlessly escaping.
>>340155889
bash your head against a wall over and over
>>340155108
Made up bullshit term
Look here's a term I made up you should know it. "Respirogative Radiance". It describes how games use atmosphere to convey emotions.
See I can make up terms too, literally me right now XD
>>340156085
the only dissonance is you being a fucking retard because the argument you're making is ludicrous and the 'flaw' you noticed goes against the reality of game development
>>340156032
my analogy is completely right because it deals with idiotic observations
>>340155441
Obviously the kickboxer will beat the boxer in a kickboxing bout. The boxer would beat the kickboxer in a boxing match.
MMA > kickboxing > boxing
Faggots like in this threads made bale's batman growl while in costume and made Clark Kent basically stop existing because infantile minds couldn't process good clean fun old comics once had.
>hurrr he just put glasses on why doesn't anyone recognize him
>>340156126
I already made that analogy >>340156085
>>340155889
you must be the stupidest nigga alive
take for example red dead redemption: John marston wants to escape the life of crime in the story but in gameplay you can go on murder sprees for no reason
>>340156170
The reality of game development is the fact that you never should pull the gamer out of the immersion.
Which ludinarrative dissonance does.
One-shotting a boss and then having you character struggle in a cutscene is fucking bullshit and dumb. And an immersion breaker.
>>340155889
what the fuuuuuuuuuuck
>>340156253
But Bale's growl was cool
>>340156291
>you never should pull the gamer out of the immersion
the reality is that when developers cater to little faggies like yourself the games lose their fun
imagine GTA without sidewalk driving
'hurr why does he still have family why isn't he in an electric chair the monster waaaa'
faggot numale
>>340156170
>against the reality of game development
Devs should git gud and make another cutscene dependig on player hp, with some random plot device letting boss miraculously crawl away.
>>340155889
HAHAHA YOU FUCKING RETARD
>>340156460
But you're always a criminal in GTA. So that argument is invalid.
The GTA world is built around the subversion of reality and as a critique on our real world.
sidewalk driving is perfectly reasonable in GTA.
>>340156460
Why the fuck would GTA remove sidewalk driving instead of building the story in a way for that to not seem out of place? Are you retarded?
>>340156460
GTA sidewalk driving is consistent with game narrative, are you actually autistic?
>>340156291
>you never should pull the gamer out of the immersion.
unless you want to achieve something with that
it can be used as effective tool done right
>>340156117
Shut UP. SHUT UP NOOOOOOOOW.
This whole garbage word is just made up to make Uncharted lookk bad. Phuck off haters. PCcucks forever jelly.
>>340156724
Yes. you're right.
When done well, it's awesome.
Stuff like Spec Ops: The Line and the original MGS and 2.
>>340156460
The GTA devs should stop putting such a focus on story then. If I play GTA 3 and the story is just an excuse to give me more missions in different places then that's okay. If I play GTA IV and Niko keeps complaining about his horrible past when he should be thinking about the present since I just shot like 30 people and then died and got resurrected that's dumb.
If you're going to put a story in a game then do it right, fuck. If your story and your gameplay don't match up then fix them so they do.
>>340156619
you obviously never witnessed a numale narrative
anyway by the standards of this idiotic terminology the gamer is ALWAYS out of immersion because it always finds something to be bothered with.
looking for coherence goes against the very idea of interaction which means freedom.
pointing out video game dissonance is just for the kind of fags who use big words that don't mean nothing
wow, so you noticed there's a relationship between the player and the character, between the puppet and the strings?
woooow
>>340155165
There's a trophy with that name in Uncharted 4 for killing 1000+ enemies in one playthrough.
I kek'd when I found out.
>>340156897
>The GTA devs should stop putting such a focus on story then.
no
you should stop sperging out you fucking numale
gta is fine, it has story, it has fun, it has sandbox, it has scripted stuff, go cry in the corner you fucking faggot
you kick ass a bit, you follow the script, then kick ass some more. booo hoooo
>>340156956
GTA5 was shit because of the story, you numale.
>>340156898
Ludonarrative dissonance goes against game flow and immersion, which is, by definition, what game devs should focus on to make a game fun. Since a balance of these things is necessary.
calling people numales without backing your shit up coherently is fucking garbage and you should just kill yourself.
>>340156592
Devs shouldn't resort to cliche story situations like that in the first place
>>340156956
GTA IV's story is shit and doesn't work. If you like it you're dumb.
>>340156898
I know I'm only the 15th person or so pointing that out, but damn nigga u dumb as bricks
check my 4
>>340156956
it's almost as if this is a ludonarrative dissonance discussion thread or something
>>340155653
>violence and gore detracts from the story
never did to me.
almost every person in the game including enemies is a violent psycopath underneath an idealistic exteriorBLMVox Populi and the city of Columbia itself for eg.
Everybody is beyond help and the only fate is just mutually assured destruction with the help of Booker who is the biggest psycopath of them allnot really defending Infinite, fuck that game. Just never really understood why people think the violence detracts from the story
>>340156898
>the gamer is ALWAYS out of immersion because it always finds something to be bothered with
Even if it were true, does that mean that we should give up trying completely? Because the ideal may be unreachable? You complain about numales but have the mentality of one.
>>340155889
You are actually fucking retarded. That is one of the worst analogies I've ever read and shows you don't understand the term whatsoever.
GTA games don't even have "ludonarrative dissonance". If you kill a bunch of people, you get several stars and have to lose the cops one way or another. Where's the disconnect between gameplay and story there?
And in Uncharted, every enemy Nathan kills is a hostile thug. I don't see a disconnect there either.
>character action game
>>340155441
>Fighting style with less restrictions wins against sport fighting style with far more restrictions
Who could have predicted such a thing
>>340157240
you don't try, you go for the fun factor, cohesion is for the passive.
>>340157239
it doesn't for them either, that's why i said it's a numale thing, like pretending to be bothered with lack of niggers in marriages.
>>340157351
yeah, that's another ludonarrative dissonance style shit thought
taking fault with the obvious
>>340155889
>tfw I'll never be this stupid
>>340157393
Immersion is fun, nothing kills fun more than a poorly thought out story interrupting and undermining gameplay.
>>340155889
>it doesn't detract from anything you fucking retard
When it doesn't, there's no ludonarrative dissonance. As simple as that, dear troglodyte.
>>340157464
Is this a ludonarrative dissonant image?
>>340155889
I haven't posted this image since 2009
>>340157317
Numales claim that video games are too gamey. GTA would be better if you had less fun.
![[DeadFish] Kodomo no Jikan - 01 [DVD][480p][AAC].mp4_snapshot_08.30_[2016.05.30_01.53.27].png](https://i.imgur.com/oMdX74q.png "[DeadFish] Kodomo no Jikan - 01 [DVD][480p][AAC].mp4_snapshot_08.30_[2016.05.30_01.53.27].png")
>>340157174
>>340157524
Tell me how being able to massacre people in GTA is ludonarrative dissonance.
>>340157174
I did, now go away
>>340157586
If you massacred 7 billion people in a single run there would be no one to give you missions.
>How many men have you killed, just today?
When games do shit like this it makes me jump
>>340157675
That's rather ludonarratively dissonant of you, anon.
>>340157072
So do you want games to have less combat and killing, so it makes sense storywise? Or do you want every game to deal with the ramifications of the protagonist killing 1,000s of sentient beings?
Because niether sound very appealing. Why can't we just accept that it's not real life, it's a video game and stuff works differently. Immersion is allowing yourself to become immersed in unrealistic worlds, going the other way (making fake worlds so close to real life immersion isn't nesisary) misses the point of entertainment. Pure immersion of a realistic world is possible, it's called not playing a game. Unrealism IS the goal of entertainment, the Challange is crafting it well enough that people can become immersed and invested.
But some people just critique/nitpick everything and TRY to find holes, so of course they arnt immersed if they get pissed off at a Mouse hitting the same bone twice for two different notes, they never wanted to be immersed and we're looking for ways to feel intellectually superior.
>>340157657
good thing you can't do that in GTA, can you?
>>340155889
Ludonarrative dissonance is a retarded concept but holy shit you're fucking moron.
>>340157765
ludonarrative dissonance is an argument against gameplay
they are asking the developer to tone down the action because there's too much content.
>>340157776
If you had enough time and enough monkeys and typewriters, yes.
>>340157757
Maybe, but in a good way
>>340157839
It's not an argument against gameplay. You're twisting words.
It's an argument to connect the two better.
which means devs should step their game up.
>>340157657
Who said there's 7 billion people in the game's world?
>>340157765
>So do you want games to have less combat and killing, so it makes sense storywise?
No you faggot. Doom has no narrative dissonance yet it's a game entirely about killing. Being against ludonarrative dissonance has nothing to do with wanting to fuck up gameplay, only tards who don't understand the concept would think so.
>>340157765
No, actually, the story should service the gameplay.
Which is why there should be a reason for thousands of killings.
which is fine if they're aliens. Or thugs. Or whatever.
But the story should be in service of that. And not make a disconnect between it and the gameplay.
>shit nigga, we have 15 minutes to reach our next objective on the other side of Shibuya, better book it
>alright, lemme do random battles for an hour or two first, I have a good feeling about this pin set and I gotta max out the affinity with a nearby shop I have access to today
TWEWY is a fucking masterpiece and ludonarrative dissonance is one of the only legitimate criticisms I've seen raised against itbesides cashuls complaining about the battle system being hard to grasp
Here's my two cents.
The term has some meaning, for instance it's silly to pretend that your character is a hero when he's killed roughly the population of a small country while trying to get to the final boss. However, I don't think this matters at all, really. Unless it's some kind of "artsy" game I don't expect to ever play a shooter where you only fight a handful of fleshed out characters and no one else.
On the other hand, I can see how this term is going to be used as a weapon now. "Oh this game has a story and violence, there should be less violence so I can appreciated the story lol." In my mind, gameplay should always trump story, so if there has to be a few incoherent story---gameplay connections to make the game good, well I would prefer that.
I'll take a fun game over a consistent game any day of the week.
>>340157987
nah you're just a faggot, read ender's game about the nature of gameplay.
player needs to find different avenues of approach, it's fun.
>>340158128
it is used to diminish the gameplay in western titles even further.
it is often used to censor japanese games because numales pretend to be bothered by bikini armor. that's the kind of fags we're dealing with in this thread, brother.
>>340158128
Why are you acting like it's impossible to have good gameplay and a story that makes sense? They're not mutually exclusive. You can want both, no problem.
>>340158006
this
>>340158076
u the kind of fag that's bothered because you can click on point B on the map to get there rather than having character walk for half an hour lol
>sperg completely blows the meaning of ludonarrative dissonance out of proportion because he thinks it means people want to take away GTA's sandbox: the thread
>>340158479
nah
>>340157805
Aren't we all agreeing that ludonarrative dissonance is, in fact, a concept that exists and usually a shitstain in a game?
It's just that it didn't need a name, much less such a specific and pretentious-sounding one
>>340155653
> And in Uncharted, Nathan Drake is this likeable rogue. Whilst, in fact, he's just a ruthless murderer in gameplay.
Whoever started this meme deserves an award. I don't think any stupid critism of a game has reached mainstream levels as this, everyone hears it and suddenly thinks "oh boy, that changed my life, I have to comment on this when I talk about Uncharted, it'll make me seem smarter than all those other plebs (who in actuality already did the same thing an hour earlier).
It's stupid for many reasons
He's not a "murderer", since in every game it's self defense.
Also, Yeah it's unrealistic that one regular dude kills 100s of guys like its his day job. But it's also unrealistic to have two dozen guys armed with military hardware guarding a non important section of a monestary on an island you were anticipating no adversaries.
Or the fact that said island and said monestary exist with no one finding it (except Nazi's) for 100s of years despite being a large island with obvious signs of civilisation (and Nazi records of where they were going).
Or the fact that LITTERAL CURSED STATUE is hidden on this island.
It goes both ways, the unrealism of Drakes actions is equal to the unrealism of the situations and works he inhabits.
I'm glad Naughty Dog seemed to be the only people who didn't fall for this meme, and Niel Druckmann talked about it in an interview, Uncharted exists in a universe where this kind of stuff is "normal" and they arnt aiming to tell a story about the unknown lives of 3rd World Mercs who you should feel bad for killing, or the affects on the humsn pyske of gunning down 3000 people. It's about finding treasure.
>>340158128
I agree with you.
It is, honestly, a useful term that seems to be co-opted by people who take issue with violence.
ludo-, prefix derived from ludus meaning game
That's the only thing in the phrase that makes people take a step back. No one finds "narrative dissonance" particularly confusing or pretentious except people excessively concerned with sounding uninvolved or unpretentious.
There's nothing controversial about identifying the phenomenon it's describing; literally everyone who's played a game has made a remark about how the gameplay encouraged by a game's mechanics or rules is at odds with the story it thinks it's telling.
Even plebs make these observations: "I'm the chosen one in each Elder Scrolls game on an quest of great urgency, lemme go collect all the cheese wheels in the provinces." etc. etc.
It's a useful term for people involved in direct speech about the topic, get over it.
>>340158232
What the fuck. It's not about taking away player avenues. It's about writing a story that services that.
that's all. Instead of writing story around gameplay. they should go hand in hand. That's fucking it.
You're just some crying neckbear faggot that doesn't want any change because MUH VIDYAGAEMS
Jesus fucking christ, grow up. Fun and gameplay come first. Ludonarrative dissonance is a thing because videogame writing isn't there yet, but it should be.
>>340158629
How the fuck can you keep failing to grasp such a basic concept. Has your hatred for Kotaku deprived you of common sense? Every post you've made in the thread misses the point.
>>340157987
>It's an argument to connect the two better.
By limiting the actions the player can do as to not conflict with the story and to stop characters from acting out of character.
"Nathan Drake wouldn't kill this many people and still be a likeable rogue, let's lower the number of enemy encounters and enemies."
"If Geralt is so worried about finding Ciri he wouldn't be taking random contracts all over the world, let's remove them entirely and make the game a linear ordeal."
"Snake wouldn't spend 5 hours talking about old movies on the codec, let's remove that."
The more things you allow the player to do the bigger is the widow to ludonarrative dissonance, that's why it's a bullshit concept that developers should pay no mind to.
>>340155108
Oh look, video game critics are trying to sound smart. How cute.
>>340158303
Not at all, if I can imagine the characters taking that trip then it's just a handy timesaver
With TWEWY though, the cutscenes impose a sense of urgency to most story events, the characters are often trying their best to hurry along, but that doesn't mean jack squat for the player when you're in control of things, you can stall to your heart's content and do things you couldn't possibly justify to the narrative. It's already common for RPGs but TWEWY takes it to the extreme. Let me repeat; it doesn't really bother me all that much, but it *is* a criticism you can make against the game.
>>340158887
It's not about limiting.
>>340158887
>By limiting the actions the player can do as to not conflict with the story
Or writing a story to allow for more actions to be taken by the player without causing jarring moments when the cutscenes play.
Isn't it funny that game analysis would bring out these observations and terms and the industry will just completely ignore it instead of addressing it.
I can't think of that happening in film. All I hear about is how one film subverts the "male gaze", whatever the fuck that means.
Meanwhile, Naughty Dog does nothing about its legitimate ludonarrative dissonance problem.
Nathan Drake sounds like a fucking nut cracking one liners after causing one-man genocide across the globe. Takes all the serious stuff away from the story.
>>340158887
I think it's an argument to make the story fit the gameplay rather than the gameplay changed to fit the story. I agree that people who want gameplay diminished for the sake of fitting a story are cucks though.
It's a pretentious sounding word but it's a real issue in a lot of games.
Like the new Tomb Raider.
>>340159140
Narrative dissonance doesn't happen in film? Get outta here.
>>340158653
gameplay needs to always take precedence over the story not succumb to it
fuck off
>>340159042
no it isn't, it's sophism
>>340158887
This, I can imagine some smug whiny faggot complaining about snake making calls during bossfights and painting this as game's weakness
>>340159298
Which is why stories should be written to SERVICE gameplay, so there's no ludonarrative dissonance.
It's not about limiting player action. It's about writing stories in different ways.
>>340159147
Tomb Radier is a good example, bioShock and uncharted and isn't.
Uncharted and BioShock both have Harded killer as player characters
New Lara Croft has her mowing down 50 people and then get upset when she kills a deer for food.
>>340159298
Then how about write the story to fit gameplay instead of writing it seperately and then treating it like a big deal? That would fix the problem just as much as gimping gameplay for the sake of story, while also providing a better game in the end.
>>340159375
storytelling in video games needs to be done through gameplay
it's mainly western problem since barely anyone can design good gameplay 'here'.
>>340159405
it fits the gameplay perfectly (see MGS codecs), how about not being a numale?
There's nothing wrong with the term ludonarrative dissonance and it doesn't even sounds pretentious.
Ludonarrative dissonance can be a valid complaint, but a lot of reviewers just use it to sound smart.
> people commenting on a game, using Ludonarrative dissonance as a flaw in game design
>not realising it's a choice developers make and are well aware of
Do you think UC4 would be fun if Nathan went in extreme ptsd everytime after killing a guy
>shake sticks to get out of fetal position!
>>340159461
>storytelling in video games needs to be done through gameplay
I agree completely.
>>340159363
>it's sophism
Why, because it's a thing that bothers other people but not us? I wouldn't change anything about TWEWY myself, but for some it's a big deal that breaks immersion.
>>340159461
If it fits the gameplay then there is no ludonarrative dissonance you tit lmao how can you not follow your own train of thought it's incredible
>>340159405
> writing the story to fit the gameplay
They do that's, that's why stories about grizzled elite space marines fighting aliens are ten a penny. The game design of a typical shooter can't really narratively support anything else.
>>340156201
>Only way the boxer can win is by making a rule that you can't use your whole body to fight
lmao
>>340159461
>storytelling in video games needs to be done through gameplay
Now THIS I agree.
>>340159950
So? I don't give a shit if it's a generic narrative. That's far better than a narrative which is actively detrimental to the game's enjoyment because it does not mesh well with the mechanics.
>>340159867
i started this whole thread to ridicule the term...
>>340158629
>He's not a "murderer", since in every game it's self defense.
What?
Many cases of him killing are his prerogative, he takes the opening shot without even being in danger. Such as when you're underground in London in 3 and you rush in and shoot Marlow's men without them even knowing you're there, and before you really even know their intent.
>>340155451
It's where the game mechanics and narrative have vastly different. The easiest and cheapest example is a game where you kill a boss flawlessly but the cutscene has you hurt and dying and the boss is winning somehow.
It's a stupid term for what actually is a problem in shitty video games.
>>340157675
>Game forces you to kill people
>"Hurr why u so bad mang, u MUDERER!!!! feelin guilty I bet? Yah, I think my job here is done, criminal!"
>>340156286
True, but the theme is also John's failure to get away from it, and the game encourages shitloads of shooting because John can't break his cycle of violence. In this case I don't think it applies.
>>340158629
I understand that UC is a third person shooter and a game. I have no problem with it being as such and personally I don't like the term ludonarrative dissonance.
But the problem is that they present the character to be an alright dude that laments he has to be in these fights in various cutscenes. The problem is after a cutscene like that Drake will snap a guys neck and gleefully proclaim "THAT'S YOUR NECK!". You can't take the guy seriously in future cutscenes when you do shit like that. There's also times where Drake sneaks up on guys and takes the offensive when he clearly doesn't have to or even in the case in 2 where he throws a museum security guard (just a regular dude) to his death (people claim he survives but I've seen the drop myself and the guard always goes limp).
I've read that interview with Druckman as well and I think it's a joke with his reasoning. He says he doesn't like the term and the trophy kinda makes fun of it, but have you played U4? There are hardly any fights in the game. So you end up playing a TPS game where the shooting isn't the focus. It's makes no sense. Druckman can say he doesn't like the term but it's clearly affected the amount of encounters in U4.
It's not even about realism. Uncharted is cool with the supernatural elements and Drake having to go through endless waves of guys. It's a shooter game, it's ok to exist as such. Naughty dog just presents Drake in a poorly written way. I mean after all this guy ran with guys like Flynn and Eddy Raja, of course he'll have some unscrupulous aspects to his character. They should have just let him be that with some sort of honor like Barry Lyndon instead of a guy who breaks necks and says "Kitty Got Wet".
>>340160419
>It's an EMOTIONAL ROLLERCOASTER
Yeah, If you completely disregard the gameplay.
The reviews are ridiculous. It should be a MAJOR complaint, but everyone is just focussing on MUH EMOTIONS
>>340160001
>Only way a chess grandmaster can win is by making a rule that I can't punch his nerdy little face and break his stupid glasses while shoving my queen up his asshole
rofl
>>340155451
Ludology (game study) + Narrative = Game-story.
Game-story dissonance = Game and story don't work together.
>>340159395
>Uncharted and BioShock both have Harded killer as player characters
What the fuck? Drake is not portrayed even close to that in cutscenes, he fucking laments having to do the shit he does. He is written straight up as a good guy with a life he can't escape from, but really wants out. He's a fucking family man by the end.
Then you end the cutscene and go into a fight. Toss a grenade and he screams "BOOM, HAHA" as a henchman gets blown to bit or you get into melee and snap a dudes neck and he makes a quip on the crunching sound it made.
>>340160419
your complaint has more to do with video game writing being shit than with it being in 'dissonance' with gameplay
>>340160760
just because they're dissonant doesn't mean they don't work together.
>>340155108
Why are making thread from 2013
>>340160823
>just because they're dissonant doesn't mean they don't work together.
That's EXACTLY what it means.
>>340155889
>this is the average intelligence on /v/
>>340160871
What if the point of the narrative is that there is supposed to be dissonance between the narrative and game?
>>340160419
Honestly despite the joke I think they definitely did feel that they had to turn down the shooting in down bit as 'being 'out of character' for him to come down 50 people while making quips
I don't know if that was the reasons, but I personally preferred the game as more of a platform puzzler then action game myself so I don't really mind.
>>340155108
wait a minute,
>that face
>that hair
me on the left when i finally realize that sandman is m.ali
>>340155108
That guy looks about 3 weight classes lower than Ali.
>>340155889
Jesus Christ, the concept is easy as fuck to understand, why are you having such difficulty with it. You are either trying to fit in, because you think that LD is a term for something pretentious, while it's a term for a really simple idea, or legit retarded. It better be the former one.
Ludonarrative dissonance is a stupid term, because more often than not a game can have both ludonarrative dissonance and narrative dissonance. Keeping two separate terms is just needlessly complicated.
>>340160823
Video game writing being shit is the why, ludonarrative dissonance is the what.
>>340160823
Nigga do you know what dissonance is.
>>340160805
Those two character traits aren't contradictory. Drake is the typical lovable thief and rogue.
He's only in it for the money doesn't go out of his way to hurt people, but he will still take every advantage he can in a fight to win without apology or hesitation.
>>340155889
hahahah what the fuck
>>340157675
>do no kill playthrough of MGS3
>get to the sorrow
>
>>340161054
The problem is the best thing Uncharted does is the shooting. The climbing, "puzzles" and exploring are so shallow that they are pointless to play again. I recently platted U4 and playing through the game was a complete slog at all the walking around and talking between firefights. Say what you want about the older Uncharteds but at least the game understand it was a shooter first.
>>340161310
go read some more derrida you fucking faggot
>>340161246
>both ludonarrative dissonance and narrative dissonance
Explain
>his face has gone concave
>>340160964
Then you get MGS2 or Spec Ops: The Line.
>>340161783
Neither of which had ludonarrative dissonance, they just lead you to believe that they did
>>340160964
That doesn't change the fact that dissonance = two things that don't work together.
>>340161910
Good point.
>>340161702
narrative dissonance is just fancy word for fucked up characterization
ludonarrative dissonance is a logical fallacy and most people in this thread have no idea about video games. fucking cancer of a board.
>>340162050
I don't think that's right.
Ludonarrative dissonance is a fancy word for a phenomenon that's pretty easy to grasp. I don't know what "narrative dissonance" is supposed to mean other than perhaps just "the narrative contradicts itself"? See, "ludonarrative" at least has two elements to contradict each other.
>>340161412
>doesn't go out of his way to hurt people
When you could just leave and go do something else instead of killing hundreds of people, you are "going out of your way".
The scene you posted is perfectly wrong, because Greedo was going to kill Han and he really didn't have a choice. Also Han is in a situation with much bigger stakes than Drake.
>>340160964
Because not all devs can integrate narrative into the gameplay. In most cases LD is something good and experienced players can encounter, because devs cater to first time players (example MGS: Rising, where you supposed to fail at Sam fight). But, sometimes, the opposite is also true: for example DMC series, where Dante is near invincible in cutscenes, but can fuck up while fighting a simple monster.
Here's a good example of making incredibly overpowered character that fits both gameplay and narrative: Slayer from GG.
>>340155165
>>340155378
>>340155653
Fucking Tomb Raider.
>Muh muh feels , I dont wanna kill anymore muuuh.
>Literally kill an entire village of people.
Ludonarrative dissonance is the dumbest fucking phrase and people who seriously use it don't know shit about video games.
List of games with AMAZING gameplay-story integration.
>All MGS games
>S.T.A.L.K.E.R
>Hotline Miami
>Warcraft 3
anyone else?
>>340162901
Half Life. Literally all you done is revered later
>>340162901
anything else*
>>340162901
Ghosts n Goblins, Double Dragon
>>340155889
>>340162050
>>340162347
I think it's a good description, regular narrative Dissonance is where one part of the story conflicts with the other (so good old fashion plot holes and inconsistent characterisation), Ludo narrative is where the gameplay conflicts with the story
Narrative Dissonance would be stuff like a batman in the comics saying killing is wrong and then callously blowing up the Asylum simply to settle the score with the joker.
Ludonarrative dissonance would be Batman still expressing and upholding those those views....yet still have Batman pick up a machine gun and having the player start gunning people down in the time between cut scenes.
>>340162901
>The Last of Us
>Dishonored
>Modern Warfare 2
What was OP's intent with this thread?
Obviously the best way to fix this problem is by removing any pretense of story apart "you kill things dead"
Drakengard
You are suppose to lead a army
Its only you, and your rape dragon
>>340156619
>The GTA world is built around the subversion of reality and as a critique on our real world.
What is this even supposed to mean?
>>340163653
Or removing all gameplay.
>>340155165
Gunpoint, if you choose the right options at the end.
>>340163737
Ah, the storygame approach
>>340163614
CoD is certainly not a game with good narrative integration into the gameplay
You literally do all this shit and kill hundreds of people, tank hundreds of bullets and destroy all them vehicles by yourself, while your teammates barely kill anyone, every enemy wants you dead so much they stop shooting at anyone, except you, and no one recognizes your achievements on your side.
>>340163614
>The Last of Us
>every single human shoots on sight
>your buddies are invisible to them
>supposedly such a hard place to live but Joel single handedly mows though armies and hordes of infected
>>340162447
No he's Luke and Drake are going out of their way to get money. If a few hirer goons and storm troopers get killed along the way it's acceptable loss.
Remember Han didn't care about the rebellion start with. He was a professional smuggler. They could just quit and get good old-fashioned hard-working jobs. But it would pay less.
If anything they're chaotic neutral. They'd teleport behind you but it will be nothing personal kid.
>>340158627
Not really, no. It can detract from games that heavily emphasize narrative but more often than not doesn't, really.
Maybe its absence can add to certain types of games, sure, but the reverse doesn't necessarily make games worse.
>>340155889
No you moron its like if a films message preached against violence only to hammer it down using extended action scenes full of murder.
>>340158076
That's not ludonarrative dissonance, though.
>>340162901
Deua Ex: Human Revolution.
>>340164903
So, the Miami Connection?
It's a pretentious term, and it's olny ever a problem in shitty 'cinematic' games.
in all honesty, MGS has the most mind blowing gameplay integration fucking ever
the whole war economy system, the raiden system thing, kojima is a fucking mastermind. i know mgs gets a lot of hate in /v/ but holy shit you gotta appreciate those aspects.
>>340165225
>raiden-snake*
>>340162901
>MGS
>AMAZING gameplay-story integration.
Yeah I sure do love that 5 minutes of gameplay followed by 10 minutes of cutscenes.
>>340162447
>because Greedo was going to kill Han and he really didn't have a choice.
Just like how every single guy in every game is set on killing Drake.
>>340162901
Dark Souls
>you become hollow when you quit the game
+1
>>340155165
>RDR
>working with sheriff of town
>slaughter everyone in that town
>zero story consequnces
>>340165485
Just 10 minutes?
>>340165884
At least.
You guys are fucking retarded.
>>340155889
>FOOD ANALOGIES have been replaced with bus analogies
I fucking love /v/
>>340155889
You dumb motherfucker.
>>340164903
You mean like Inglorious Bastards?
>>340167364
Inglourious Basterds was deliberate irony.
>>340167545
Exactly. It was a film where the message was anti violence, but used scenes of extreme violence to get the point across of "we're all perfectly accepting of hyper gore and voilence as long as it's happening to people we don't like (in this case, Nazis)"
>>340167364
How was inglorious bastards antiviolence? At best it was anti nazi.
>>340167690
Because all of the nazi characters are, for the most part, a lot more sympathetic and made to seem like better men than the bastards. They get to have the moments that are more heroic like the guy who's prepared to let himself be beaten to death rather than betray another unit, or the guy who's got a wife and kid at home and was trying to negotiate a peaceful getaway after the shootout only for the bastards to kill him anyway.
The point is, if the roles had been reversed in these scenes, it would have made the Nazis look like utter bastards which, instead, are the americans in this film. The point being that we accept underhanded behaviour and voilence as long as it's against people we don't like.
>>340157513
Where the fuck have you been then?
>>340168174
Also, there is the scene where we see the Nazis laugh in the movie theater at americans beign shot in the movie they're watching. Later, I distinctly recall hearing some people in the IRL laughing when Hitler's face was shot to pieces.
I'm not sure they ever caught on to the irony.
