What is your opinion on the "no death" aspect of Wario Land 2/3? Do you think it's good game design?
>>340139847
I don't have an opinion on your topic but I will bump your thread anyway due to the amount of off-topic newfag filth cluttering the board.
It's great.
>>340139847
its not bad game design if the game is designed around it well
It worked pretty well, since both games were designed with that in mind in a smart way. It put an extra emphasis on exploration and platforming. Getting hit was still something to be avoided, as one hit could fuck up several minutes of platforming in certain levels, especially in Wario Land 3.
>>340139847
It makes them shitty non games. To be a video game you need to have fail states.
You die, it spends your time. You get hit, it spends your time. Pretty much achieving the same thing here.
>>340140346
>fail states.
what is severe knockback, losing coins, having to take no damage to bosses, etc.
The first Wario Land was one of the first games I ever played, and I spent a lot of time on it. I didn't play 2 until 3 or 4 years ago and it felt really boring.
I think the major reason I didn't like it was because they removed the hat powerups.
It's bad.
>>340140472
Artificial lengthening. Like when you tell people your penis size is 4 inches
>>340140478
Transformations > hat powerups
This is undeniable fact.
>>340139847
I don't really like it because in practice all it really amounts to is "one hit and you fall off a huge tower and have to redo the entire platforming segment"
when I was 8 and I was on the bus on a school trip another kid was playing wario land 2 and I asked if I could play a life and he said "sure, as soon as I die"
I'm still waiting
>>340139847
WL3 is awesome
find a better GBC game that isn't pokemon.
>>340140594
>artificial lengthening
same logic can be applied to dying, retard
>>340140594
What's a game over except making you redo whatever you just did?
By your definition the only games that are actually video games are roguelikes.
>>340140615
nah
>>340139847
It's part of what makes it unique. Rather than dying, you are still impeded in progressing through the game, and usually this means you're also losing out on valuable treasures as a result of it. These games are much more puzzle than they are platformer anyways, it definitely fits. A shame we'll never get a Wario game like it ever again, they had some of the most bullshit enemy placement in any game.
>>340140617
So the same as dying or getting game over.
>>340140346
>to be video games, you need to have fail states
I don't think I've ever seen anyone even try to support this claim. This isn't a self-evident truth you dipshit, case in point the very games this thread is about
either argue your position or never bring it up again
>>340140346
Wario Land 2/3 do have fail states though. You can't die, but instead what happens is that you get fucked all the way back to the beginning of the level.
It's funny because this usually happens because you get the same power ups that you use to progress. It's sort of a double edge sword in that regard.
>>340139847
>it's another "anon tries to justify his walking simulators like Gone Home because some older game /v/ likes didn't have game overs" episode
Nigga your bait is shit, step it up.
>Playing WL3 as a kid
>Go through the entire game without dying
>Final boss can kill you, in a single hit nevertheless
PANIC.jpg
Made me lose my shit.
>>340140823
>mfw we'll never get greedy strongman wario ever again
>mfw we're forever stuck with silly wario who farts a lot
>>340141141
Thanks Hackurai.
I thought it was a neat take on Wario but I ultimately prefer the rest. 2 was good but 3 got tedious way too fast with how much it makes you redo the same stuff over and over.
>>340141062
I am actually genuinely curious about why this mechanic works well in Wario Land but not so much for other games.
>>340141141
I love when people who ate up NoA marketing spout this babble about muh strongman, Wario was designed since his very first appearence to be le gross fartman. Farts and being strong and badass are not mutually exclusive.
>>340141394
This but I can't argue that Wario moveset is pretty shitty for a serie that tries to stay true to the characters games
It's great because the levels are designed around it. Avoiding falling apples to avoid turning fat and not be able to jump, avoid the robot when ascending platforms so you don't spring your way to the top again, etc.
The overworld design is great, too, in both games.
>>340141261
That's because Wario Land tries to be a fun game, instead of pretentious modern shit.
>>340141394
Maybe if you want to live in a world where the only thing that's canon are exclusively Japanese commercials and completely ignore the games themselves.
Even then he wasn't so much "gross" as much as he was "goofy". He didn't start farting and shit like that until the Gamecube/GBA era.
>>340139847
>dying is the only metric for challenge
Post you're Wario Land 3 clear time.
>>340141261
because you still can't just bumble your way through, even if you are invincible for most of the stage eventually there is actual threats thrown at you (bosses/enemies or traps that can kill you), or you can't collect items to progress/unlock additional stages.
What does thread think of Wario Land Shake It!? What is it missing to be a great WL game?
>>340141261
It's more about exploration than challenge
>>340141854
Feels like Wario Land 4: Shitty Edition.
>>340139847
No, it's fine. Rayman Origins did the same thing (it has checkpoints), as does Super Meat Boy.
If a game has fun, challenging levels where you throw yourself at it until you finish it, that should be enough. Hell, even the Souls series does that with bonfires. You can die as much as you want and never get a Game Over.
>>340141854
I loved it. Could just be because I hadn't played a Wario game in a long time but I thought it was all around fun. Great graphics, great music, going for all the extras provided a good challenge.
>>340139847
Because the game does a good job of punishing you for fucking up a jump/taking a hit.
Wario normally falls into a hole or river that takes him a far ways back. That's better than simply reloading a checkpoint because 2/3 are more about exploration than 1/4/shake-it
Just look at the boss fights, it's normally 1-hit and you need to backtrack back to it.
>>340141854
>What is it missing to be a great WL game?
???
But it's the best one by a country mile.
>>340141612
I know it counts for very little, but in Project M, they changed his side B to his shoulder tackle, his down smash to his Shake It slam, and down air to a ground pound. They also changed his running animation from that weird sideways shuffle to Wario's regular run. I really appreciate what that crew did to add game history to the characters.
>>340142091
>best one
Not even close, familia.
>>340141854
>What is it missing to be a great WL game?
Better level design
Abilities
No subwarine
A less awful boss hit sound
More fitting music
Don't get me wrong, the music is good, but it's pretty boring compared to the previous games
>>340141854
Level design wasn't on par with Wario Land 4. It's not bad by any mean, I liked the hand drawn animation.
>>340142091
>But it's the best one by a country mile
>>340142176
Well shiet, can't argue that.
>>340142103
>changed his side B to his shoulder tackle
On the one hand, the shoulder bash really needs to be part of his moveset, since it's easily his most iconic move. On the other, the motorcycle is great.
I figure it would work best as either a running attack or side smash, really.
>>340142091
>But it's the best one by a country mile.
I think you meant to say "it's the best looking one by a country mile" or "it's the last one". It certainly doesn't beat any of the others when it comes to gameplay.
>>340141854
At least it was a step up from Master of Disguise.
>>340142351
In PM it runs for a bit and covers good ground. The distance it maxes at is greater on ground than it is in air. As it travels on ground, it's power increases pretty well to where it hits with the force of a charged smash at max distance
>>340142178
I wouldn't call the soundtrack boring, but the game definitely didn't have the previous game's "eccentric" music and characters. Everything in the previous games was weird as fuck.
>>340142358
Not gonna lie I'd put it ahead of 3. I always thought that one seemed kinda overrated.
>>340141261
because wario land series aren't walking simulators, they're actual video games
>>340142516
Wario World got a little carried away with the eccentric shit. It feels like it's where all the rejected boss concepts got thrown away.
>>340142516
I loved Wario World. I wish for another like it. They style was great, puzzles were nice, and fuck man did they do great environments and music
>>340142358
Only WL4 can hope to compete. Shake stomps the fuck out of 1 2 and 3 in terms of gameplay and soundtrack.
>>340142516
>>340142731
>all those creepy, weird boss fights
>it all comes crashing down with one of the crappiest final bosses ever
>>340142731
I would buy 4 copies of wario world 2 if they made it work. The first one still does work minus nostalgia after having gone back to it.
>>340140664
Not really. If Wario Land 3 has a checkpoint system and death it wouldn't have to take 3 minutes just to get back to the spot you fell off of.
>>340142880
>can hope to compete
>gives you a brief tutorial level, then ramps up
>Shake It has to baby you for several levels while inserting motion controls
>WL2 had better train levels
>WL3 had better exploration
>WL1 had cooler abilities
>VWL is better overall
nah
>>340140678
No, a proper checkpoint system wouldn't make it as tedious.
>>340140478
You'd have loved Virtual Boy Wario Land. It's the same style of game as the original, and was a completely different game and a damn good one at that.
>>340142176
>tfw Nintendo rejected the idea of Renegade Kid to make a 3D port of VB's Wario Land
Anyone down for netplaying some WW?
>>340139847
It works well because Wario Land 2-3 is designed around it
If you fuck up something, be it a boss fight or platforming segment, you have to do that part again
>>340140615
>90% of the transformations give Wario the power to break a specific type of block while making his movement horrible to control
>hats let you fly and breathe fire while keeping control of Wario
Hats were better
>>340142882
I was so fucking mad when I heard the western version of the game had an unfinished version of the final boss and Japan actually got the full thing.
And we didn't get this badass music as a result
https://youtu.be/uHKTICJru14
>tfw had to repeat the fucking bee boss like 8 times before I killed him in WL2
Why I am so bad at Wario, /v/?
>>340143015
That's completely unrelated to what I said. The point isn't the degree to which the game was tedious, the point was that "artificial lengthening" is meaningless.
>>340143202
Flying hat was too OP, you could just sail through most of the levels and disregard platforming entirely
post yfw you hear this.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yrUnek6c3Zs
i very much preferred the first wario land
>>340140647
Ghost Babel for me
>>340143232
Too bad the Japanese version didn't make the first phase better.
>WOOOoooWOOOooo
>YAHOOO BLSH YAHOOO BLSH YAHOO BLSH
>>340143202
I love both the hats and transformations equally. Really, they both lent to their respective game sets so well that you couldn't really have them in either one without it messing up their flow.
WL1/VBWL were more focused on being traditional platformers with a little bit of exploration on the side, so the hats giving you powerups and helping with said platforming worked best there. WL2/WL3 were more about solving puzzles and were working around an invincible Wario, so having several enemies turn you into states that could help or hinder you made getting hit a strategic element to help solve environmental puzzles (or mess things up even further and get you stuck back at the start of a platforming section).
Liking one system over the other is more indicative of which style of game someone prefers, I always thought. And then there's WL4/Shake It, which are more about precision platforming and focusing on making the most of Wario's core abilities more than anything else.
Every game where you cannot die would be better if you could die.
Imagine how fun WL2 and 3 would be if you could only get hit a few times. You'd have to actually plan which forms to take on.
>>340143408
>>340143408
>Hearing this on S-Hard mode
>>340143557
>transformations taking health
That sounds like it'd be really shitty, especially with Flaming Wario or Bouncy Wario.
>>340139847
At the time thought it was cool since it was a relatively new idea.
It's has good level design in that it enables the life-less system. Whether that is fun to play is a different story.
>>340141065
Rudy was some shit, I tell you what
>>340139847
No. WL4 was much better in every way.
>>340143557
>Imagine how fun WL2 and 3 would be if you could only get hit a few times
sounds even more tedious since they put water near every form
>>340141065
Rudy scared me
>>340141854
non-linearity
>>340143557
>Imagine how fun WL2 would be if you died thanks to having no control over Wario to begin with
>b-b-but it's legitimately challenging
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gqhYgVQPDuY
Enjoy getting this song stuck in your head again.
>>340143408
>>340139847
i loved it in WL3
>>340143408
>implying this isn't the best part of the level
Wario Land 1 is by far my favorite. I might be biased since it's the one I also played the most. I 100% a save more than once as a kid
>>340139847
Works with the level and game design so no problem.
>>340143408
>it's a "blue frog statue directly below the portal" level
>>340143408
>>340139847
Holy shit I really need to replay wario land 2. I have the cartridge here right next to me.
>>340139847
I haven't really played them but not being able to die sounds terrible. The player needs to be punished for sucking too hard, else why call it a game?
>>340146328
You still get punished for sucking at the game. Many rooms involved long series of platforming segments and if you hit and enemy or some obstacle you'll fall and be sent back to do it all over again. Bosses work the same way. I thought it was pretty clever.
Remember me?
>>340144441
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UjdQ9Rplw-4
Why is this not considered Wario's theme in general? Like, it's essentially the Wario version of Mario's 1-1 music.
>>340146650
oh yes, amazing game
>>340146650
Whoa, that looks cool.
