Why are FROMSOFT so bad at balancing PvP?
The changes in DaS3 make it incredibly obvious that their primary concern in regards to PvP above all others was to discourage low level invasions.
The biggest change, the match making now factoring in weapon upgrade level is a key indicator of this, in addition to hosts who already have phantoms being given invasion priority.
But instead, these and several other factors have caused low level invasions to give the invader the biggest advantage over the host, more so than invading anywhere else in the game.
Because phantoms can now use estus, albeit half as many flasks as what a host can carry, they can simply blitz through the game and obtain a maxed out flask, which at low levels will heal them to full health in one swig and give them as many as 7 charges, vs a host at the high wall who can at best have 6 charges that will only heal a small portion of their health. Invading anywhere else in the game and the host can and likely will have a raw estus advantage, and therefore a raw health advantage.
Invading the high wall also gives the invader a massive equipment advantage. They have the entire game's inventory to pick through when creating their invader, vs the meager offerings of the high wall, and it's scant supply of upgrade materials.
Sure, because of weapon upgrade levels now being factored into match making they can only take their weapon to +2 and infuse it without being moved out of the high wall's bracket, but if applied to the right weapon this is more than enough to give the invader a huge advantage over the host.
And when you are almost guaranteed as an invader to be dumped into 4v1 situations in almost every skirmish, why wouldn't you give yourself every advantage possible?
Mid to late game you are completely at the mercy of the rampant gank squads that the new matchmaking mechanics only help to facilitate.
Indeed, I pose this question to you /v/, why would you even bother invading anywhere else?
because souls games were never about pvp
good point but what kind of snake is this?
>>340044854
But PvP and co-op makes up a massive part of the game's replayability.
>>340045074
And? I hope they don't give up to mobafags like you and waste any budget on pvp.
>>340045145
kill yourself casual
>>340045247
Go back to your ASSFAGGOTS
>>340045074
Only for faggots.
>>340044648
Because PVP as NA users play it was not the original way that from expected people to do it. Fairness and balance has nothing to do with how pvp is supposed to be, you have one goal as the invader, kill the host. How you go about that is up to you, but FROM had zero fucking intention of people creating a code of "honor" within their game so balance in that regard is of little concern. In all but the circumstance of having 4 people standing over you as you spawn in, you always have the option of scouting the area thoroughly and plan your attack or leaving. So being ganked is pretty much your fault, always.
>>340044648
From makes casual shit for retards who can only feel pride in defeating little retarded AIs, this will never change
>>340045145
I don't play mobas, they're shit. They should invest more in areas of the game that keep people coming back to it, as it lengthens the game's lifespan and draws more players to it.
I hope they don't listen to butthurt shitters like you and invest much more of their budget on it in future games.
>>340045413
>They should invest more in areas of the game that keep people coming back to it
No they shouldn't.
I am sick of replayability as this gold standard for games.
I have never heard of a criticism for movies that it has a lot of rewatchability.
I fucking hate gamers so fucking. We have the worst taste.
>>340045320
>It's your fault the game's shitty matchmaker facilitates gank squads to such an egregious extent.
>It's your fault you had your time wasted getting summoned to a 4 man gank squad world and had to black crystal out.
Yeh, you're retarded. Fuck off and take your uninformed opinions with you, HONORABU DUER faggots have nothing to do with the game play decisions FROM made with DaS 3's online.
>>340045515
>comparing games to movies
hello sonygger
>>340045515
Fuck off and go play Gone Home then you casual faggot, replayability is half the point of vidya.
>>340045752
Oh okay then.
Let me quickly throw this game into the trash then.
Worst game ever amiright?
Ugh, this thread again.
Bloodborne was great because pvp was basically nonexistent, allowing them to develop a game based on a good pve. If all souls games revolved around or even favored pvp over the actual game they made then it would be resources squandered. FROM is more interested in nerfing things that are too good, rather than tweaking mechanics so that autistic losers who actually enjoy low level pvp (people who like beating up underprepared players) have to try much harder than ever to exert their "dominance".
>>340045632
>waaaaaaaa I run headfirst into obvious ganks, the game should cater to me waaaaaaa
Go cry somewhere where you might catch some sympathy kid.
Because fun?
>>340045752
>replayability is half the point of vidya.
Soulsfags admits Monster Hunter is a million times better than Souls
>>340044648
why not play games that take BALANCE as the spirit like csgo, starcraft, sf instead of a game where they encourage your ass to be as much of a dick as possible?
It amazes me that people still think that the souls games are supposed to favor invaders after both dks2 and 3. The devs view invaders as mere speedbumps that the host must encounter in their world. They are basically supposed to be a bit tougher npcs.
>>340045831
It's a visual novel, so...
>>340045752
DaS2 had arguably the best pvp and I have already replayed both das3 and bb each more than das2. I replay souls games for bosses and the core combat.
Only mobafags replay games for pvp.
>>340046148
How about SotC or Portal?
Both of them have almost no replayability.
>>340045831
>handheld meme game
throw yourself in the trash alongside it
>>340046214
>Scrolling past front page and seeing something this stupid
You have fun with your special needs classes alright buddy?
>>340046141
The souls games supposed to be dangerous and lethal and you are supposed to try over and over again for success. even the lore support that.
you can still run N roll to the boss fog or play a fair game at pvp arenas anyway.
>>340045832
>allowing them to develop a game based on a good pve. If all souls games revolved around or even favored pvp over the actual game they made then it would be resources squandered.
But that's wrong you retard, FROM put the minimum of effort into souls PvP and it shows, infact in terms of production the asset production required is minuscule, a couple of shaders for different factions and some icons for a couple of items, almost all of which were taken from previous games in the case of DaS3, further reducing the strain on development. Everything else is just tweeking values pertaining to matchmaking requirements, the number of phantoms that can be present, the conditions that are set to allow summoning and invasion.
>FROM is more interested in nerfing things that are too good, rather than tweaking mechanics so that autistic losers who actually enjoy low level pvp (people who like beating up underprepared players) have to try much harder than ever to exert their "dominance".
Wrong again shitlord, it's easier than ever for sperg lords to shit on lower levels, that's the entire point of the thread, infact it's practically encouraged in DaS3 over other forms of PvP, and it is all down to negligence on FROM's part. I guess they must have been too busy stealing assets from Bloodborne.
>>340046505
Portal is a puzzle game and honestly half the game of SotC was figuring them out.
Unless you somehow found a way to wipe your memory I see very little reason to replay them.
>why would you even bother invading anywhere else?
Because it is fun
>>340046679
can you post some webms of you getting assfucked by a pack of phantoms? or do you not record those?
DaS3 is the only game were I had fun with invading.
In other souls game you had way too much of an advantage. Fuckers were unprepared pvefags and you could destroy them.
Now they are unprepared pvefags with summons.
Honestly I actually like fighting 4 3 or 2 vs 1.
It is way more satisfying to win.
>>340046801
Why would record those?
>>340046141
>It amazes me that people still think that the souls games are supposed to favor invaders
No one suggested that, fair fights are the most and that's what we want.
>The devs view invaders as mere speedbumps that the host must encounter in their world. They are basically supposed to be a bit tougher npcs.
Confirmed you have no fucking clue what you're talking about. They're supposed to be mini-bosses, just look at the health pools of the NPC invaders.
Invasions are supposed to provide a challenging and unpredictable enemy for the host, but since now you can only be invaded if you have a phantom in your world already this goes right out the window since summoning a friendly phantom effectively makes the game easy mode.
There also needs to be far more consideration for the person playing the invader, invaders know what they're getting in to, a most likely up-hill battle, but DaS3's mechanics utterly shit on invaders in every way imaginable.
>>340047012
becuz its le fun XDD
>>340044648
Invading in the woods is starting to give me cancer I think
>>340047012
>Avelyn faggot
Confirmed shitter.
>>340047184
Not for me
>>340047285
>>340047337
>Look guys I killed another scrub with my terrible gimmick build, am I cool yet?
>>340047505
Show us a webm of you invading.
All we got from you so far is just whining.
>>340044908
>hard nipples
Somebody's got an asphyxiation fetish
>>340047563
I have nothing to prove to you, your webms are bad, your build is bad and you should feel bad. Shitter.
You broke into my home. I will defend it by any means necessary.
>>340047762
I'm guessing he killed your scrub ass which is why you're so salty.
>>340047762
I am not even that guy. I just think you are a huge bitch
>>340047839
>home
the world doesnt belong to america, you know.
>>340047839
>I put a sign on the front door of my home saying "Free money, enquire within" and then sat myself behind the door in a lawn chair with a shotgun
The shitters that try to justify this faggotry are the worst
>>340046051
>Grind simulator with shit atmosphere, art style, etc.
Kek.
>>340048231
>replayability is half the point of vidya.
>>340046149
DeS easily has the best PvP.
>>340044648
>Why are FROMSOFT so bad at balancing PvP?
Because it's fucking FROMSOFT. The previous 4 Souls games didn't tip you off?
>>340048313
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GOh5vyBvffw
>>340047879
>>340047949
I like how you literal 12 year olds think that my refusal to oblige his irrelevant request invalidates the fact that his build is gimmicky, shitter garbage. Fuck off back to plebbit.
>>340048521
What's your point? You can find a million vidoes/webms to confirm your biases. DeS is still better than the rest.
>>340048775
I don't give a single fuck about that guy and his build.
I just think you are the biggest pussy.
They will let anyone join the Dark Moon these days.
>>340048792
>cursed dbs
>lol2kat
>bbs light weapon
>grassing
no
>>340048836
And you cannot fathom the magnitude of the shit I do not give about your opinion, faggot.
>>340049158
prove it and don't reply to this post.
>>340049158
>I dont care
>im going to keep replying
Youre retarded
>>340049054
Are literally all of your webms just videos of you using gimmicky shit to kill bad players?
>tfw low level catacombs invasions
pretty much the only place the invader can get a good upper hand
the amount of greedy R1 spammers I've made fall off the bridge ladder is in the hundreds now, does not ever get old
it's especially fun because if they just went on with their business that they were doing and went for the boss they could've avoided the embarrassment
>I will hide behind this large shield. My favorite youtuber said I would win if I use it.
>>340049290
I've never seen him post a video of him fighting anybody with an ounce of skill so yeah probably
>>340049630
Soul Stream sniping in the catacombs is absolutely sublime.
In general the Catacombs is great for invasions, lots of environmental hazards and you can use enemy triggers and the hex urns to pinpoint the location of your target if you can't see them.
>>340049641
>I will spam the dragon torso stone, my favorite meme posters on /dsg/ say I will beat shitters if I use it.
>>340049894
What level and weapon upgrade is best?
>>340049953
Probably 40-50 and weapon lvl 4
>>340049953
I'm at 30 +4 and get instant invasions at pretty much any time
>>340049107
>He doesn't know fuckall.
Let's start with BBS builds being absolutely garbage once people figured out CW.
2kat wasn't even top tier (DBS and Estoc were) and it got shit on by memes like NR.
DBS being cursed or not didn't matter as it was it could easily 2-shot even without curse.
The grass was shitty, indeed. But compare the flaws to DkS
>Poise obliterating any sense of spacing, timing, punishing, etc, rewarding bad playing.
>DWGR (kek).
>Shitty movesets.
>Comedic balance on magic.
>BS oki is insanely strong.
>Can one-shot off riposte.
Or DkS2:
>Infinites up the ass with no escape.
>0f parry.
>Janky as fuck BS system.
>Worst-in-series hit detection/collision.
>Can one-shot off riposte.
>Agility (kek).
>>340044908
tiddy snek
FromSoft is a Japanese company, so:
1) They're very insular.
2) Their nation has very little online community presence to let them know about problems.
3) When international communities have issues, no matter how large, the only way they hear about it is via advertising or publishing representatives, whom they might see once every month, and even when told there's an issue, may not understand what exactly it is or whether it's even serious or not.
4) They don't really think multiplayer is a big deal since Japanese games tend to focus on isolated inter-connectivity at most. Something focused on multiplayer like Splatoon is a huge rarity.
5) Japanese players are very min-max and grind oriented, so the concept of one weapon being blatantly better than all others doesn't ring any warning bells for a lot of their community. If you invade a Japanese player, you're likely to see a host and two phantoms, all using a dark sword with caestus. They're just like that.
6) Japanese developers have a concept of ownership with their games. I don't know how to communicate that, exactly, but they see their vision of what the game should be as being the only way it should be. How players end up playing the game is something they either don't care about or will try to change to reinforce how it SHOULD be to them. The idea of internally adapting to how players discover how to manipulate the games doesn't occur to them.
Basically, the answer is that Japan just isn't any good at balancing PvP, because they're barely aware of such things. They have no experience doing it, and they have an arrogant vision of right and wrong when it comes to balancing them.
Most of the issues any Souls player outside Japan could name off is something FromSoft isn't even aware of. Their internal testers are also a notoriously small group, and apparently terrible at PvP, and have no idea what they're doing.
>>340044648
>whaaaa I wana gank lowbies
Go back to dark souls 1 then you trash
>>340050720
Why would anyone do that when it is far faster and easier to do so in 3? That's like the entire point of the post. How's that reading comprehension there, champ?
>>340045985
>tfw just dual twinblade spinning against parry shitters
Nobody ever expects the follow up either
>>340044648
>he doesn't understand the artistic decision surrounding the pvp
stay young pleb
Bust down the front door to this dudes home and he fucking waves at me. Felt good gutting him like a pig.
>people claim these fights have host and phantoms with no skill
no shit, people who summon at all have no skill in the first place AND all the good players are either solo rushing a build or in fight clubs
>>340049193
>>prove it and don't reply to this post.
i hope this gets weaponized in here, would end alot of stupid arguments real quick.
>>340052304
did he insult you somehow with that wave? why so mad?
>>340052304
Okay I wasn't with that faggot who called you a gimmick shitter but this post was like a few magnitudes too edgy.
>>340044648
So why is poise still in the game as if it does something?
>>340050292
>>Infinites up the ass with no escape.
patched
>>0f parry.
patched
>>Janky as fuck BS system.
better than instant like das1
>>Worst-in-series hit detection/collision.
kind of agree
>>Can one-shot off riposte.
only with a glitch
>>Agility (kek).
neat addition after the cancer that were fast rolls in dark souls 1
>>340053325
>agility
>neat addition
Fucking kill yourself.
>>340045632
Yes, it is completely your fault if you invade someone and they have a team to ass rape you waiting on you. Invading isn't about fighting someone 1 on 1 for fun, it's about trying to disrupt a persons game and revert their progress. You act like a dick, you get dicked.
>>340053402
just put points into adaptability, it's not hard. Every pvp ready build is at least SL150 anyway, where else are you gonna put those points?
>>340053507
>revert their progress.
>Bonfire placed every 5ft
lol
>>340053523
Adaptability was fucking stupid. Fromsoft realized how retarded it was, which is why it never came back after DaS2.
>Every pvp ready build is at least SL150
There was no pvp standard because of soul memory, another retarded concept that got scrapped.
>>340053783
>there was no pvp standard
>was
correct, but you wouldn't know
>>340044648
souls pvp is a minigame...
why should they spend a great deal of effort balancing a minigame?
if FROMSOFT cared about souls pvp being fair they would have put more effort into creating fair places for pvp to occur
they never did, so there is no indication that they are 'bad' at balancing, rather that they simply don't care very much
>>340053858
Agape ring was too little too late.
>>340054295
The arena got Soul Level matchmaking but it was also very late.
