>wizard/mage class in an RPG
>they use a staff instead of wands to cast magic
>wizard or mage in an rpg
>they use wands instead of creating a magic circle
>wizards in RPG
>they don't chant ancient enochian spells or act out intricate rituals
sword wizards are the best wizards
staves convey more dynamism and power than wrist flicking
Look at 90% of the Harry Potter fights and how retarded they seem when you realize its just people flicking around little sticks
>>340009398
>little sticks
wizards who use large staves are just compensating
>wizard in rpg
>punches shit
>>340009657
yeah. they're compensating for their lack of defense by having a backup plan to smash the enemy's head in if it gets too close
At the end of the day, isn't a staff just a bigger wand?
>>340011169
No, a wand is a tiny staff.
>>340010042
LOUIE PUNCH!!
He needed more seasons. Show was comfy.
At least we have Konosuba now
>wizard in rpg
>doesn't wear a wizard hat
>there are no wizard hats available at all
>>340009398
I agree with this. Staves are cool, and I've never liked wands.
>>340009028
>that image
you just brought back a lot of frustrating memories. playing that game with a friend and a random third person was a serious test of patience
>>340009028
I cant think of a single RPG where the mages/wizards used faggoty assed wands.
>>340012161
>dark souls series
>there are wizard hats
>why would you ever wear them when there are better head pieces for casting?
>>340009398
That's the problem with magic a lot of the time. You might be able to move mountains, but you yourself don't look cool or interesting while doing so, even more so if the motion for that is the same as shooting a fireball or blotting out the sun or dominating a noble.
>>340010830
Or even just to use the staff's reach to keep someone at a distance.
A staff can be used as an actual weapon, but wands are only good for casting magic through them.
You can't do awesome spinning Ray Park moves with a wand. You need a staff for that.
>>340011169
Didn't /vg/ went apeshit over this.
I mean they went apeshit over everything, elves, dwarf women, etc, but this one was awesome.
>>340015410
What exactly happened? "Went apeshit" is a little vague.
>>340009028
>staves give you more spell-power and all around better stats then wands
what did you expect was going to happen
>>340009028
Vocal casting or shooting lightning of your hands is way cooler than gay ass wands.
what's the difference between wizards, sorcerers, mages, warlocks, sages, and anything else i forgot to mention ?
>>340009028
Wands are for witches, not wizards
>modern fantasy rpg wizard
>basic attack is magic
>doesn't cost any mp
>no casting
>wanting them to use wands
>>340016149
>Wizards
Stronk spellcasters. Use shit like meteor and tornado
>Sorcerer
Medium spellcaster. Casts fireball, lightning strike, etc.
>Mage
Baby spellcaster. Spits out bolts, ice balls and so forth.
>Warlocks
Nethercasting, summoning demons and shit, blood magic
>Sages
Cross between a druid and a sorcerer, with a greater focus on potions
>Druid
Fucking hippie.
>>340016149
DnD does the best differentiating
>Wizard
Studies to use magic
>sorcerer
naturally magically in-tuned
>warlock
gets magic from a greater being
>>340009028
Staves are the one thing Tolkien got right, faggot.
>>340012469
i played that free beta with 2 randoms and in one session we finished all the courses available; really surprised me
never bought the real game though and neither did anyone else
>>340016546
To be fair, having Mages rely on spell stocks makes them almost unplayable in many RPGs. They tend to be really swingy characters that start off super pathetic, and eventually when they get enough spells to cast that they don't run out of them easily, they become godlike compared to melee or archer types.
So forcing them to have no basic attack I think just leads to design problems where you overcompensate by giving them strong spells comparatively and they become useless weak shits without it. I'm glad they did away with this principle.
>>340016149
>Wizard
Spellcaster that learned magic from intense study and hard work. Typically the strongest variant. They're the ones that usually use wands, staves, or tomes in battle.
>Sorcerer
Someone with innate magical talent without the need for study. Same powers as a wizard but generally weaker. They typically use no instruments and just cast with their hands.
>Mage
Catch-all term for any magic user, but usually used to refer to a wizard, sorcerer, or warlock rather than, say, a priest that can cast spells.
>Warlock
Someone who either sold their soul to a demon for power, or regularly makes contracts with demons to perform magic for them. Can use intruments like the wizard sometimes, but usually uses magic circles or symbols.
>Sage
A wise man whose magic can come from contemplation and meditation or divine sources. Kind of like the religious version of a wizard, but doesn't necessarily have to be religious.
wands are for faggots
>>340009028
>wizard/mage class in an RPG
>staff isn't topped with something cool like a bird skull or some big orb, just a bent piece of wood with maybe a leaf and some cloth on it.
>>340012161
this right here. Pointy tops and wide brims or get the fuck out.
>>340009028
I want more spells that require a whole bunch of bullshit. Like 90% of my inventory filled with magical reagents so I can cast the really good stuff. Plus it naturally gives you more room for treasure the further you get into your adventure.
>>340018250
That's fucking disgusting and I'm glad it never caught on.
>>340018534
Whats wrong with AC with Alchemy?
>>340018601
>Too good to use, gotta save it.
>Just stock up to the max so you don't need to bother with it since money is everywhere
>Farm some place for hours to get them.
Pick several.
>Staffs
>Wands
>Their wizards dont move mountains or call forth apocalyptic rains of fire by manipulating the very fabrics of nature with their bare hands
Pathetic, really.
>>340009385
>>>>>>>>/x/
>High Tier
Books
Incantations
Runes
>Good Tier
Staves
Talismans
Crosses
Prayers
>Shit Tier
Wands
Rhyming spells
Dolls
>you can't use a grimoire or tome
>>340009028
>you can only channel magic through a small stick rather than a big stick
>especially if the big stick is adorned with some sort of magical artifact
this game's faces crack me up every time
>>340019213
>Books in high tier
>Dolls in shit tier
delete this
>>340019213
>runes high tier
>staves which are a perfect metaphor for the old wizards achievement in mid tier.
End thyself role playing chaote
>>340009398
Wrist flicking has its place though. Wands allow for quick sequential casting and a more expressive posture than staves have.
Then of course there's magic cast from spellbooks and just with your bare hands, which also have their own merits.
There should be a game that allows for all four of those.
>>340009028
what kind of faggot cuck wizard uses wands??!?
>>340019213
As terrible as they generally are, I have a soft spot for spells that rhyme.
>>340009205
>ritual magic
>in live combat
you lookin to get shanked, nigga?
>>340009398
Any wooden crap is for pussies. Dramatic arm swinging is where the real power lies.
>>340019213
>Bestest Tier
Greathammer
Am I the only one here who wants more mages using firearms?!
Magical gunslingers?????!
Why do thieves always use bows?
I mean, I love the game Thief but that does make sense. There is no reason for a thief to use a bow. A thief would be an urban person with no background in archery. It would be a hugely conspicuous item to have on your back inside the town, unless you are disguised as a soldier, or pretending to be a woodsman come into town to barter supplies.
>>340020064
So long as the gun or whatever isn't magic then yeah it's perfectly reasonable.
>>340020356
Why not? Outlaw Star did a pretty cool concept on this where the gun used shells loaded with magic. It's a cool enough idea that's flexible and can be used in a variety of settings, especially steampunk/fantasy ones.
Guns powered by the user's magic, shells full of magic, etc. It's like a more potent medium than a staff or wand that specifically makes the magic take shape in a bullet, small or stupidly oversized.
I love this idea, damnit, I only ever see it once a while.
In Dragon's Dogma you can play as a Mage who uses a magic bow. Shit was pretty dope.
>healers use staves instead of cudgel and shield
>they get bonuses to healing.
>>340019213
motherfucker you take that back I will fight you.
>>340019213
Songs > *
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=shu99QPnfcA
>>340020560
I wish they dove into the lore on how casters were created. I would kill for even a short series centering on the McDougall brothers pre-starwind
>>340016149
>Wizard
Magic through studying
>Sorcerer
Magic through pedigree
>Warlock
Magic through pacts
>Sages
Magic through age and sometimes higher powers? I guess they're something like more power focused priests/clerics
>Mages
Catch all for any magic user, but I personally call novice/apprentice magic users mages.
>Witches
Magic through pacts again, may or may not be sexy/a cute little girl
>Necromancer
Magic through necrophilia
>Druids
Magic through apathy and muh forest.
>Spellslinger
Magic through guns/arrow
>Alchemist
Magic through SCIENCE
>Magus
Magic through stealing
>>340009028
>>>340016149
>>Spellslinger
>Magic through guns/arrow
This is what I came here for.
Just cast with your hands
Conjuring a scorching shot with your hands is cooler than shooting a fireball out a wooden stick.
>>340020560
So basically spellswords with guns?
I like Summoners
Something about summoning beasts and stuff seems pretty fun.
>>340016149
Sages are just scholars. In D&D and other fantasy settings they often overlap with one of the actually magical monikers though.
>>340021221
>tfw shit killed by summons only yield 50% of the xp
>>340021189
Pretty much, depending on the idea itself. The gun being technologically created to capture magic and compress it into potent bullets, possibly elemental. Like spellswords.
Outlaw star is not like spellswords, the bullets are already loaded with magic so any user could wield it to fire magical bullets.
>>340019213
>dolls and rhyming spells at bottom
>crosses and prayer in good
>>340016149
If i recall mage it just a short phrase for magician.
How would you guys make a healing based mage more fun? I always figured a better way to do it would be to either make them have to focus more on maximizing healing instead of "point beam at retard (like how the vaccinator in TF2 made medics pay attention to what the biggest threat at the time was) or by letting them get in on the damage and have the healing benefit from that (like have healing over time effects on allies being more beneficial if you inflict more damage over time effects onto the enemy).
>>340021564
FFXIV Scholar.
>>340019559
>>340021397
>>340020763
Christ, you're embarrassing.
>>340020560
>loaded with magic
That's the problem
>>340017614
its better than making them an archer with different animation
and they always have disadvantage on having really low hp and long casting for the powerful spells
>>340021864
It's not the only way, though, a gun itself can be the medium through technology. Like a magical version of a taser but runs on magic.
>>340021564
>How would you guys make a healing based mage more fun?
Typically I'd just say make them strong.
But if you really want to focus on just magics, I'd just say to expand what "healing magic" entails.
Like in TES for an example for an apt vidya example. In that world "healing magic", namely the restoration school of magic, is essentially the school of manipulating life force in general. It incorporates healing and buffing. But also negative buffs and the weakening of life in general. Even the draining/absorption of life essence or the ability to drain/absorb strength and stats.
>>340021972
>magic is a resource
The problem
Right there
>>340021564
playing priest in RO is fun as heck
not to mention all the free shit you get
>>340022002
I've always found that something like that is done better if it has a darker flair to it. Normally a game just calls something like that fleshsmithing so that the character can meld meat back together or be particularly good at ripping it apart.
>>340021564
Healing based primarily on lifesteal and lifeshare, maybe. Healing others damages you, while damaging others heals you. Maybe you could have a mechanic that lets you gain temporary HP above your maximum when you steal a shit ton of health, and you can then use that massive HP bar to either heal others or be a tank yourself.
Though now that I think about it, that sounds like a combination DPS + Tank + Healer class.
>>340021389
>>340021972
That will only work for evocation spells like bolts, beams, and balls. Shooting a gun to teleport to the nearest town, move a mountain, or step off the plane of existence sounds retarded.
>>340022346
Why is that a bad thing, though? Wizards are just stupidly OP anyway being able to do everything ever.
If put into a game and balanced, I'd say the guns would try to compress the magic and make them really dense projectiles capable of dealing more damage through penetration and/or exploding upon contact.
>>340009398
This
Any fighter with use magic device can use a wand to its maximum benefit
Only skilled magic users can reap the benefits of a stave
>>340022059
I don't get your point?
>>340022701
Magic is often expressed as being the exertion of mental power, this is the way magic was even in old tales for a long time like arthurian legends. A fucking gun does not have a mind.
>>340022346
Depends on how you do it, I guess. I mean directly shooting a gun and suddenly teleporting is indeed dumb, bit I'd have no problem shooting a bullet that tears a hole in space for you to step through, for example. Same principle for moving through dimensions. Not sure how to move a mountain, though.
>>340022569
>wizards
>balanced
what part of "it's magic, I don't got to explain shit" do you not understand?
>>340021564
Make them a Vitalist
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/psionics-unleashed/classes/vitalist
>set up telepathic network among party
>create shared healing/buff pools and transfer HP around to those who need it
>lifesteal attacks that add to the pool
>>340022883
But the gun isn't using the magic it's wielder is and he is just using the gun as a tool. when he gets tired then the gun is more or less just a gun then.
>>340019213
Where do cards fall on this list?
>>340023032
Then the shells aren't filled with fucking magic you retard. It's just another god damned wand. The wand isn't magical nor is the fucking gun then.
>>340020936
>>Magus
>Magic through stealing
wat
>>340009028
>needing a wooden stick to use magic
git gud
>>340022956
It really comes down to how creative you can get.
Working within these rules of being restricted to a gun, I'd say to teleport, I could use a bullet that has runes/energy/pentacles that when buried inside a wall, ground, or any object, it'd send the user towards that place. Bit like the yellow flash in Naruto.
Nothing about the dimension hop, you already nailed a good idea about literally tearing a hole in the fabric of reality.
As for mountains.... Why not blow it up? I mean, if someone had the power to move mountains, a gun is redundant or probably would explode trying to channel that much energy.
>>340023281
Just go watch fucking coffin princess.
>>340023131
Except they are filled with magic, but how is the shell going to be filled with magic if the user is too fatigued to pour energy into it. You are basically just firing off the gunpowder without any for of ballistics in the shell.
>>340023131
Getting rustled over fictional objects, whoa. So what if the wand, gun, or staff isn't magical? What's your point being?
>>340023395
Magic isn't a substance. You are talking about an enchantment. The gun isn't magical nor is it filled with magic. You are talking about enchanting. Learn basic things.
>>340017781
So would applications include the initiation? Wouldn't want an abundance where it would interrupt.
>>340019213
>God Tier
Magic Circles
>>340023427
The classification of the gun and its funtion, and the retarded idea that mind is substance being shit. It's fantasy yeah random nonsensical shit doesn't make for good world building. Once something resorts to >lol plot device
It's shit.
>>340023180
Probably stealing others magic/life force or from the environment?
>>340022346
It could make you move faster, say, skydiving.
>>340023180
I just seem to recall that in Pathfinder, magus there have the ability to steal spells, canceling them and using them in return.
I suppose there's also Rubick, the magus from Dota 2.
>>340023623
That's called energy energy vampirism.
>>340023498
An enchantment would be the idea of giving the bullet magical properties when that is not what anyone mentioned. The bullet is being used to propel magical force out of a gun. So by your logic you are just saying all magic is is just enchanting other people with magical forces.
>>340022569
"Get that bitch a canon."
>>340023620
I'm still not getting your point. Why can't a mage gunner exist as a trope when mages have already wielded a vast repertoire of items to channel/enchant/evoke spells? There are far stranger ideas like using dolls.
>>340023739
Not even close to what I said. This is retarded. Done for tonight, I just realized I'm on /v/
>>340022883
>>340023032
>>340023131
Not every setting includes guns.
>>340023781
Most of those ideas have an actual point of being used as a form of tool in mental exertion of power. "Magical force" is just shit. It's reducing the actuality of what magic is to a deus ex machina while before it had some kind of reasonable understanding in how it could work before it got wicked crazy.
>>340012727
>dark souls series
>caring about stats instead of high fasion
>>340023990
So basically, the problem is really just my own idea of magic versus yours?
Then following your idea, I'd say a mage gunner is still possible through enchanting bullets. It'd be an advantage too, since no mental exertion is made during a fight.
In games and fiction, it'd also create interesting situations/tension where the bullets are limited and have to be used carefully.
I love it when the spell gestures are over the top, like casting quake spells requires the mage to slam the staff in to the ground.
>>340024240
More like the actual idea of magic and not the current day repuposing of magic as nothing more than a plot device. Also my point before was enchanting bullets is reasonable and sane. A gun shooting fucking magic as if it's a fucking substance is shit. Like i said magic as an idea has devolved and modern day magic has nothing to do with actual magic. It's like taking gordon freeman and making him a demonic space marine.
I liked Ritualists in Guild Wars. Something about summoning ghosts instead of reanimating corpses and skeletons was a bit fresher to me, concept-wise.
>>340024283
Any quake ability, magical or not, that doesn't involve slamming the ground is automatically terrible, honestly.
That's just How It's Done.
>>340024560
So wait, if magic is the mental ability to form things and affect objects, what is the resource? Is there a resource? Just getting tired from it?
>>340009028
>thinking a wand can even compare to a staff
>poor little wand user
I mean, sure, wands get the job done I guess. But you dont see the bitches going wild over dat wand boy. They want a man with a two handed staff.
>>340024804
It's getting tired from exerting your mental energy, mental energy literally being the same thing as what helps you keep focus in a test at school, think too much or do too much works and you get tired. Given that masonry and other things such as imagination have been used before as means of explaining how magic was thought to work it's basically considered focusing actual visions into the real world.
>>340024669
Yes, but I hate it in games when the Wizard just points his staff forward a bit and a volcano raises from the ground. Make the Wizard look like hes actually pulling the volcano up or fuck off.
>>340024984
Makes sense, yeah. I can see why the concept moved onto magic being a resource due to video games.
Wheel of Time used magic as a resource too.
>>340025135
It's kind of sad to see this kind of a dynamic falling into nothing more than being a deus ex machina. It helps one see how integrity of actual ideas has fallen to flow of story. Thought has no purpose, it's all style.
>Play a wizard
>Dont study magic
>Dont uncover the mysteries of the fantastical universe
>Just sit and spam fireballs and magic missiles
>wizard/mage class in an RPG
>They use knifes
>>340025448
Actually if you looked into actual rituals knives have been used as wands before. The wand was only just a representation of the phaluses metaphorical meaning as being the sun which was expressing the life giving properties of the universe, magic being the art of giving life to something wether it be a dynamic spell or enchantment. The whole thing is basically representing cum coming out of a dick to then be spread out into the world, the seed giving shape to the magicians will as the sun does. You could use anything you wanted so long as it represented the sun in your mind, even a finger, or sex magic rituals.
>>340016149
Wizard
Magic scientist who makes BIG spells happen but must prepare ingredients/spells
Sorcerer
Guy who can just make magic happen but not as big as Wizards do
Warlock
Dark magics usually involving demons, blood, and other edgy things
Mage
Usually catch-all term for magic users
Necromancer
Makes dead things undead
Druids
Hippies and Furries
>>340016149
Wizards study magic for power
Sourcers just 'know' magic
Mages is a generic term
Warlocks are infused with magic, either by ritual or some other fuckery
Sages also study magic for understanding
![1542655--adventures-to-go-psp.313[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/kW3jFyJ.jpg "1542655--adventures-to-go-psp.313[1].jpg")
>Druids are a blight to nature, leeching it of its life force
>>340009028
>wizard/mage
>isn't a muscle wizard
So which school of magic is the most inherently dickish?
My vote goes to enchantment/illusion.
>>340026108
It would have to be possession based magic
>>340026108
Illusion is a top contender, but I would say Alchemy.
>>340026108
Summoning, especially if it is against the summoned creature's will.
Or anything regarding jinxing someone.
>>340026393
That is pretty much enchantment
>>340026756
Depends on how you look at the nature of enchantment and the metaphorical soul. Some would say possession takes more due to the changing dynamics of personhood. It all depends on what model of the mind we are talking about.
>>340009028
>spellcaster can throw fireballs, summon meteors or open rifts to the void
>oes about the same damage as the guy that's really good at hitting things with a sword
>>340026108
Depending on implementation, blood magic or telekinesis. Human puppets are pretty evil by default
>>340025292
So what if there were a game that was about hardcore, "realistic" wizardry? Like you actively have to learn and memorize spells, study in-game books and scrolls, and your strengths and powers relied on what you learned? The most powerful casts in the game would require you to decipher and learn a fantasy language in order to properly cast them, whereas weaker casts would be reading a page and memorizing some command inputs.
Would you intbabbies play that?
>>340028139
Give it to me. I need it
>>340026108
Illusion, easily, if we're going by 3.5e spells.
>>340027337
>wizard can summon meteors to do huge damage but it has limited uses and a fuckhuge cast time
>but you can get gear that makes the cast time instant and restores uses with every cast
Thank you, Dragon's Crown.
>>340019213
>Elder God Tier
Stand
>>340028139
Yes, I would.
Fuck thats why I love the older elderscrolls games, finding artifacts and magic through old quests was fun as fuck, shame they turned it in to generic follow the arrow and level listed RNG loot
>>340028765
>doll
Pass.
How would i make a spellswordy character in skyrim that isn't a complete fag? I mean like geralt, because in generic fantasy a spellsword is a DYEL lel so quirky faggot who flings little firework spells
>>340029471
>How would i make a spellswordy character in skyrim that isn't a complete fag? I mean like geralt
>>340029590
What i mean is that geralt isn't a fag and i want a spellswordy guy like him
>>340029692
fully equipped Alchemist vs Wizard
who win?
>>340029871
Depends on the system/game/universe
>>340028139
>Each class is focused on a different school of magic
>Pure magic, elemental magic, life-force magic, dark magic, summoning, alchemy, illusions, etc.
>Your class starts you off with basic learning materials for your chosen school of magic
>If you put in the time and effort to learn you can learn other schools and become a hybrid, such as a summoner wizard or alchemist warlock, but you'll always be most effective with your chosen class' school
>Staves, wands, runes, sigils, hand gestures, etc. would each act as different catalysts for magic and have their own methods for casting: using numpad patterns, moving the mouse while holding M1 in specific patterns, typing in phrases quickly, maybe even stopping the game to solve a quick puzzle, etc.
>Could even spell-sword it up and use some knives and small swords
>Kill dragons and demons by casting complex spells that chain into each other, such as combining tornado with fire castings or summoning a water elemental and throwing a poison potion in it so it gets poison on everything
I think it'd be a pretty hardcore niche game for a small but highly dedicated audience, but hell it'd be pretty rad.
>>340029871
If your potions can kill dragons, and effectively do anything a knight can do, then I think an alchemist could give a wizard a fair run for his money.
>>340009028
>Any mage class in an RPG
>Staves are for magic and you can't fight with them
This annoys the hell out of me because staves are actually pretty awesome weapons.
>>340009028
>staff wizard
>goes all donatello on them friggin' orcs then uses his stave as an 'ghetto heilcoptor' via twirling it very fast
>>340033428
https://youtu.be/5sOvNYYH6Cs
>>340019927
>>340009028
You use a wand so you can offhand a shield to keep your faggot wizard ass alive.
>>340009028
what?? staves are way better
>>340020560
The whole point of shells filled with magic was so that people who couldn't use magic could use it easily.
>>340021564
Healer tanks. The longer you stay in a fight, the more buffed your allies get. Healing also has an AOE around the target that damages nearby enemies
Emblems > Staves, Wands, Books, Axes, and Fists
Nothing like a flying mage that gets stat bonuses from one of the most common things in the game. Now if only magic wasn't the most bland and generic thing in the series.
>>340022207
>Healing based primarily on lifesteal and lifeshare, maybe. Healing others damages you, while damaging others heals you.
How about this?
http://camelotunchained.com/v3/realms/tuatha-de-danann/empath/
>Wizard
>Can conjure weapons that give max proficiency when wielded
