Let's discuss piracy and I want some answers once and for all.
Apparently there's a hack called free eShop for 3DS custom firmwares that let you download the games straight from nintendo's eshop without them none the wiser, but the question is, why do you do that?
We're not going to delve into the common "I wasn't going to buy it anyway so it's not a lost sale". We're talking about the guy that was willing to pay for games (why otherwise would you have a 3DS?) but don't do it.
Why? Do you just want to save some bucks? Do you want to spite nintendo? The result is that you're hurting the developers you like and in the end you're creating a self-fulfilling prophecy where you either don't get the games you want because they just cease to exist or they get dumbed down, or moved to mobile platforms, or whatever. Is that what you really want?
Why not instead buy the game with good conscience so we get more of what we love?
Call the cops, I don't give a shit. I'm not gonna lie and say this is to teach nintendo a lesson or whatever, although Treehouse has been getting on my nerves.
Now I can spend more money ongunpla and mtg
Why do these comics always feature bike magic?
>>339956125
>>339956501
because NOBODY WILL EVER KNOW
>>339956501
Because the analogy is the same. It doesn't make sense to say that digital stuff is not real, it is real. Otherwise you'd also have to say that the OS and computer you're using right now isn't real which we all know isn't true. Unless you want to go full tinfoil
Sweat and work has gone into a digital product which creates value, if it weren't valuable it wouldn't be charged
>>339956125
i bought a 3ds, hacked it, and the only game that was really worth the price of admission was MH4, i regret more buying a 3DS than pirating the game on it
Because I can.
>>339956125
>Someone makes their own bike replica of the store's bike using their own magic
>Store owner still tries to charge them for it
So now we are going to have 10 overmeme threads a day + 2 or 3 of these?
Holy fucking shit, I see like one or two good threads on /v/ and it's usually always late night.
Fuck you all.
No one gives a shit. People have been stealing since the beginning of time. It's nothing surprising, really. It's human nature. Yes, Nintendo will completely die off because of this and eventually video games in general will die off because of this. It's unfortunate, yes, but this is what "gamers" want. So be it.
>>339956125
this picture is retarded because if you have a physical ability to copy an object like a bike then you are using your own time and energy to copy it so you shouldn't need to pay some guy just because he did nothing
>>339956125
The guy in your pic did nothing wrong.
The jew salesman can feel as assblasted as he wants to, but he did not steal the bike, if anything it counts like he did it himself, and it's not plagiarism because he isn't profitting off it.
Anyone who disagrees is either a retard or a Shekelstein
The greatest deterrent to crime is not severity of punishment, but certainty of being caught. No 3DS hacker is ever gonna get caught, so...
You buy a pack of yeast from a store, you take put it in a mixture of water and flour and the yeast multiplies.
Are you stealing from the store because the yeast multiplied?
>>339956718
Yeah it's called IP ownership. If you want to be autistic about it, yeah, the retailer probably didn't make the bike himself, but imported it from some other business, but he still paid for its rights
>>339956743
>put overwatch in filter
>10 threads are gone
wew
>>339956125
>(why otherwise would you have a 3DS?)
I bought a 3DS, bought some games for it, and then it sat on my shelf for a couple years because every game it got since then didn't look good enough for me to bother. So I hacked it, pirated a bunch of games, and surprise surprise they're all so boring I can't even muster the willpower to beat them after getting them for free. No way in hell I'd spend money on them.
Im poor.
My family has always been.
If I was so reckless as to spend the little money I have in videogames my grandpa would rise from the grave and fuck my face up with a left hook.
I get it, it's stealing and whatever you like but the fucking videogame industry are not indie developers or actual artists making a living.
They are usually greedy companies that get rich out of reruns of the same franchises.
You want to complain about people like me killing gaming?
I've owned like 6 consoles in my life and spent some money in them, when my parents or when I could do it.
Nowadays most vidya is pure shit, Im not trying to justify my actions because you are a random person on the internet and I will not convince you. But if fucking Miyamoto came and told me "hey why do you pirate stuff" I would just tell him that unlike him I don't swim in fucking money.
>>339957081
It's not the same, you're adding value to the yeast by making something out of it into a new product
You can't possibly be so stupid as to say that restaurants "pirate" because they buy in raw ingredients and then make a new product out of it and charge a higher price than the cost of buying it in. Like seriously, there are better arguments out there so don't pick this one
>>339956501
It should a runabout instead.
>>339957216
Still, what difference does it make?
Im not complaining about them existing, im complaining about them being all over /v/ when /vg/ was exactly made for that and why are people not being banned.
>>339956125
>We're talking about the guy that was willing to pay for games (why otherwise would you have a 3DS?) but don't do it.
What if you buy a 3DS for the sole purpose of pirating? Isn't it a net gain in that case?
>>339957472
Yes and no, you're sending the wrong signals to the market, i.e. the devs. Devs make games based on the viability of it selling, i.e. the attach rate. If 100 million bought 3DSes but no one bought games, sure it would be a net gain for nintendo but disastrous as a whole
Make demo.
>Get camera in bestbuy
>Go on a trip
>Returns camera when you're done
>Completely legal
>Game company treats consumer like crap
>DRM that actually hurts consumer with legit copies
>Shameful dlc and promise this promise that but never delivery practice
>Increasingly worse day 1 release quality. Weekly patches is now a norm.
>Blames consumer on immoral actions.
You can't tell if the bike lives up to the quality you're expecting. Same as gaming nowadays. While the bike is physically there for you to examine, unfortunely for games you can't really tell if it contains the value you're expecting unless you try it out yourself. I wont say it make an excuse for people to pirate games, but unethical games developers are also partially responsible for the lack of faith we're experiencing in the gaming industries.
>>339957768
>moral crusade argument
>feigned ignorance, "oh I didn't know it sucked"
The thing about expectations, yeah, it's a thing in marketing, but if it doesn't live up to expectations you can return it 99% of the time probably, as you can with video games (don't claim that you can't)
>>339957571
If the message is about cost, I could be saying that the price of the system + games is too much, but the sweet spot is somewhere between that and the cost of the system itself. Instead of paying $400 for everything, maybe I consider $200 acceptable?
Or perhaps I simply like the idea of paying a flat fee for the system and a large promise for lots of free games? Is that something they could work out?
>>339958026
For 50% of the purchase price or less, only for them to resell it at a measly $5 off. In general it's simply not worth returning it because you get so little for it.
Why they don't let me bring MY OWN camera to museums? I am not stealing the paint, I am just making an exact copy of it, jezz.
>>339956125
I don't really pirate games but I feel like it's just as immoral to pirate OR buy lots of games that are made by gigantic companies.
supporting most of these garbage behemoths makes you part of the problem. Also, you'd be surprised at how many giant companies should be bankrupt but our bizarro completely fake not free market economy keeps them propped up.
>>339958035
Yeah, and it's been done albeit unsuccessfully with consoles that ship with the console and then loads of games with it. I think it was during the gaming bubble in the 1980s that saw nintendo rise out of the ashes from.
The problem is that the cost of game production today is so high for labour and capital it's just not feasible realistically, but I think we're seeing a sort of compromise or hybrid of that though. PS+ and XBL isn't that far from it, as in you pay a fee and get "free" (yes I know) games. But of course that's not a flate rate etc etc
You know, we like to complain that games are really expensive, but when we compare to other things, especially food, it's really not compared to the amount of work and sunk cost that goes into it
This analogy would only work if the magic nigger was giving these copied bikes away to cheap bastards. Pirates crack the games, the scum who invent excuses for piracy never do any work themselves.
>>339958424
Maybe you just don't get the same value for it that you used to?
>>339958026
I would advice you to stop arguing on this topic.
>>339957468
>pirate minecraft back in beta stage
>enjoy it for a while
>feel terrible that I never got to pay Notch for it
>even though he said it was okay, still feel guilty
I vowed to never pirate a game again after that. Even if it's a greedy dev who doesn't deserve the money, I'm not going to sink to their level.
>people make solid points
>replied posts are literally "wahhh stop pirating"
Why do I keep coming here.
>>339956125
Fuck modern Nintendo.
>>339956125
bike shop owner would have to take all his wares and leave them out in the open at a public park
that is what the internet is like
>>339958748
>post scarcity
>most devs in Japan on the verge of bankruptcy every day and have to resort to kickstarter to get funded because investors calculate too much risk for it to be viable as a project
Fuck you, seriously. Neverland (devs behind rune factory) was one such entity.
>>339958743
I've got at least half a dozen H-games that I need to someday pay for.
>Try out games I know nothing about to see if they're good
>Play games that leak early
>Play games that come out in japan/europe before the US
And I still buy them when they come out.
>>339958683
Wether you can return used physical games depends on local laws and store policy, wether gamestop allows it is completely irrelevant.
>>339956383
>call the cops i don't give a shit
You're probably 16, right?
>>339957187
>IP ownership is the same as making a fucking bike from thin air
I'm convinced you're a college drop out.
I only pay for games when it's something I care about eg. it's a series I like, a passion project or someone porting or localizing a game we wouldn't get otherwise.
I do this to show support
Also multiplayer games.
All other big AAA game of the month shit gets pirated with no remorse. I'm no longer a student or poor, I could pay for them, I just choose not to.
>>339956125
If you want to talk piracy you'd better start talking about the fucking 1500's and shit because the courts are now rejecting the term as perjorative. Copyright infringement is not piracy, piracy is piracy and the two are very different. People who share software are not pirates, pirates engage in banditry on the high seas, they don't sit in basements trying to get free entertainment.
>>339958683
>feigned ignorance again
If you bought colonial marines you have only yourself to blame.
>>339959074
How do you suggest software developers get paid for their work then? Make everything a subscription?
>>339956125
>why do you do that?
To get free games, same reason I download PS3 games directly from Sony's servers: http://psndl.net/packages
>why otherwise would you have a 3DS?
To pirate games. Some people only buy systems once they're hacked.
>>339956125
FREE
STUFF
do you even know how humans work, anon?
>>339956125
Ah yes it's the corporate shill with his daily loser thread.
Stop editing that comic for your own nefarious agenda. The original comic has an extra panel where the copied bike falls apart after a few minutes of being ridden.
>>339956690
While I agree, there's still a slight difference. Effort, sweat, work, money and time have been put into the product in both case. However, making a second, third, fourth (and so one) bike require pretty much the same work, (minus the R&D money). Making digital copy of game is little to no work a the publisher.
Not that's justifying piracy or anything, just to point all the analogy isn't perfect.
>>339959163
As opposed to? Are you trying to make investors to be a bad thing? If they have the capital and you the idea it's a natural relationship
There aren't many sectors where there aren't investors when it comes to private enterprise. Yeah we should all wish for an ideal world where we can just make things without thinking of investors, but that's why it's called investing
>>339956125
I've been pirating since I've owned computers, I've never owned a legit copy of windows until my uni gave me free microsoft shit.
In recent years after getting into music and programming and gamedev, I started paying for my shit more.
But. and this is a big butt, I grew up in a time where I could go to the corner store and get a games magazine filled to the brim with demos and trailers and other fun things to give me hardware some use. And here's were my current attitude comes from, I refuse to buy for something interactive unless I've had the chance to play it first hand, the same way I refuse to pay for music I haven't listened to yet.
If it's good I'll buy it when it's around the price I think it's worth or I don't buy it at all if it isn't at a price that I think is worth it.
>Apparently there's a hack called free eShop for 3DS custom firmwares that let you download the games straight from nintendo's eshop without them none the wiser, but the question is, why do you do that?
See I own a 3ds because I wanted to play smash bros, since I'm a sucker for nostalgia I bought a 3ds and Smash bros full price without any more research. The last console I owned was a ps2 and I either pirated my games for that or I got them from the 5€ bin at the game store. I had the idea of doing the same with the 3ds, buy the 1st party games when they're cheap or get them 2nd hand for beans.
But the fucking prices never came down, and all I could find on the 2nd hand stores was trash, cars the movies games, barbie games, all this shovel ware parents bought for their kids and then sold. There were no cheap 1st party games, not even on the fucking nintendo store, and sometimes they were more expensive digitally, no box with fancy art, no manual with pretty pictures and lore. Not to mention Euro taxes, so games and hardware are all expensive as shit.
Continued.
>>339959064
I'm listening.
Please present to me that US law you're talking about, which protects consumers and grant them the right to return GAMES if they are unsatisfied.
>>339959537
That's... incredibly ignorant. Hopefully you grow up
>>339959224
And that's the point. "Shitty cash grabs" like colonial marine are causing consumers to lost faith in the gaming industries, leading them to piracy before initial purchasing.
>>339959124
And you're not? The IP holder is the only that can make more of what they own. Whether it's a gift that somebody can copy a bike or not, it's a violation of that. This is so basic
you can morally argue all day long how that's oh so terrible, but if you had stakes and your livelihood depended on it you wouldn't. I really don't see how else you expect things to work, unless you want to return to some feudalistic nepotistic society where you're most likely a serf, or if you just expect government handouts each month (which is an exception to the rule, not a trend btw if you look at history. Yeah, you're really lucky)
>>339959371
So in your ideal world, making money off software is impossible and therefore none gets made?
>>339959686
There's nothing to elaborate on, you're either a deluded communist or you've never left your basement
Maybe if they lowered their fucking prices. I literally bought Killzone: Shadowfall for the PS4 for $5. A PS4 game from a few years ago.
WWHD is $50, Smash is $60, MK8 is $60.
Even fucking DS games are inflated to fuck. HG/SS cost $50, AND THAT'S MORE THAN RETAIL WHEN IT CAME OUT. A POKEMON GAME, POKEMON! YOU KNOW, THE ONE FRANCHISE THAT SELLS 100 GROGRILLIAN COPIES IS SELLING A 7 YEAR OLD GAME FOR $50 AT YOUR LOCAL FUCKING GAMESTOP.
Fuck off.
>>339956779
But if the bike had never been built in the first place, you'd have nothing to copy. Is it really fair for you to get to use and enjoy their hardwork they put blood sweat and tears into just because it's "not a lost sale"?
In our futuristic present day we have reviews, gameplay trailers, demos, (some of us have friends), it's not really acceptable to steal for a test run. Very rarely have I ever played a game that was shit. Because I actually have the sense to know what I'm getting into.
>>339959371
but where is your own salt? You haven't made any
>>339959686
You're the one that said it's INHERENTLY and by DEFAULT bad. You're the one that needs to elaborate on what alternative you want
You're probably just going to say that risk-free and unconditional handouts is the solution, right?
Maybe in a thousand years, sure, maybe never. You're fucking retarded m8, learn the basics of argumentation
>>339959615
Ignorant maybe... but that's not the question we should be worried about. It's whether or not that assertion is correct or not. The modern investment market is rife with speculators and con men. The investor as an entity has faded away long ago.
More often than not modern "investors" are very parasitic by nature. Countless examples of majority share holders ripping companies out from under their creators once the model has proven profitable and selling it all to someone else.
The old stand up investors of the past have faded away, it's just a bunch of assholes shuffling money that isn't their's around now and picking up the change between the cracks.
>>339959504
continued
>Why not instead buy the game with good conscience so we get more of what we love?
This relates to what I said earlier of nintendo games being more expensive digitally.
I buy games from people who respect me as a consumer, having to pay more for less is not respecting me as a consumer, I will throw nintendo a bone for being one of the few companies who still make demos.
Anyway, I buy shit when I feel like they respect my decision to be an informed consumer, publishing demos, representative official footage, no canned bullshit and pricing their fucking games accordingly.
Case in point, the devs of Hard reset released a redux version with shiny new gfx and tweaks and those sorts of fun things, and they gave you 85% off if you owned the previous game, that to me is amazing.
Because I bought the hard reset and i liked it, but I wasnt gonna pay 20€ for some new shiny fixtures on the cieling, but the discount was an insta buy for me because it aligned with what I belive they should've done as developers, give older players an incentive to try this out again for a much shorter price. That is knowing your audience and respecting me as a consumer.
>>339960062
So what you're saying that devs can survive if they sell 1 game and only 1 game and the rest are handed out for free? What the fuck are you even saying? In case you didn't know, there's a break even point
>>339956125
You can do this with a cfw ps3 too. Its fairly simple. Xbox 360 did it for a bit too, but it stopped working/getting updates when they left the blades OS
>man has a bike shop where he owns one bike
>guy comes in and magics up a second bike out of thin air that looks identical
>shop owner thinks he somehow owns that new bike
what a self-entitled fucker
Remember to fight cp producers by pirating their content.
>Do you just want to save some bucks?
im a kleptomaniac its a very serious disorder
i deserve your pity, not your scorn
please pity me
>>339959124
He's saying the bike is the IP, retard. How could you not put that together?
>>339960398
>have a bike shop with one bike
>guy comes up and fucking magically duplicates it
who gives a shit about the bike
>>339960621
I guess all those developers should adapt by becoming dirt farmers then since obviously trying feeding yourself by making technology that advances humanity is a fool's game.
>>339960198
This is hyper emotionalism at its finest. First off I get the impression that you're conflating day traders with venture capital. Venture capitalists judge a product of its viability of selling, there's nothing inherently evil about.
>Countless examples of majority share holders ripping companies out from under their creators once the model has proven profitable and selling it all to someone else.
You need to explain how their ripping the "creators" off. So they have the largest share right and sell it off to somebody else (they don't necessarily have to have the largest share either to make a lot of money to sell their shares). Well, okay. You didn't explain where the ripping comes into it. And secondly if the startup sold that amount of shares to an investor then they're bad negotiators to begin with and should've gone with somebody else. Investing is about people, you need to be a good judge of character. Dragon's Den has good examples of responsible investors and irresponsible startups
>>339960621
This doesn't make a lick of sense at all. The inevitable conclusion is that there will be no game for you to steal to begin with and you still haven't answered the basic question of what the alternative to would be. You expect games to be made out of thin air?
>>339960962
If you're saying that people making "truly important works" are doing it for free you're fucking delusional.
>>339960962
We're not anywhere close to post-scarcity and if you think we could be there tomorrow if we all just shaked hands and sing campfire songs together you're pretty delusional indeed
>>339960828
>video games
>technology that advances humanity
You do not deserve to be entertained for free. A product, made from passion or not, is made to be paid for.
They must be bought, so the creators can live to make more. Unless their creation sucks, in which no one ever buys again.
Easy.
What about games that are no longer being sold, or games from defunct developers that wouldn't see any of the profits anyway? SWAT4 fits the first category, I'm pretty sure its literally impossible to purchase a copy of the game at this point. For the second example, I'm pretty certain no one who worked at the original Interplay studio receives a dime from current Fallout 1 or Fallout 2 sales anymore
>>339961295
Can you list some game developer companies that went under solely because of pirating? I don't pirate games because I'm an mmorpg fag but the people defending AAA developers on this board make me cringe.
>>339961280
>He believes entertainment doesn't advance humanity as a whole.
Okay, play with some boulders outside and tell me how long you go before you go crazy from boredom, dipshit.
Just because you're too narrowminded to see how important it is doesn't mean it isn't important.
>>339961280
It is, Elon Musk and many other scientists believe our reality is not actually a reality because we're a simulation in computer software/virtual reality.
Thanks to video games graphical technology has exploded. If we assume a fixed rate of advancement, then maybe in a thousand years we can have graphics as good as real life which means we can simulate reality and then start question what is really real
>>339961590
You're pretty clearly confusing scarcity with shortage. Just because we can produce enormous tons of food doesn't mean it's not scarce
>>339961957
First off, they're not the same thing.
Paying a 20$ fee to play minecraft isn't the same as using hundreds of thousands of government money to have 40 people build a building.
And if entertainment was so useless then why the fuck are you here on your PC?
You're a fucking moron, thanks for playing.
On the subject of piracy, there's something that people don't really think about. And that's old vidya.
I have a modded PS1 (because my family didn't have a lot of money when I was a child, as a result, I had a PS1 up to around the seventh generation and didn't get a "modern" console (a PS3) until quite recently), and played a lot of pirated games as a result. If I burn my own discs nowadays, is that pirating? You can't buy the discs outside of paying resellers or random faggots who mark the price up, and while you can buy the games on PSN etc., not every game is on there (for example, Megaman Legends only came onto the PSN Store quite recently - before, you couldn't find it outside of ISOs and people who were selling their game). Not only that, but the versions found on PSN are running through an emulator - so not everything is perfect.
Is that morally wrong? And is it piracy?
>>339961474
Piracy has to be looked at industry wise or even take the entire economy into account.
If piracy was 100% impossible the overall size of the games industry wouldn't increase, people have limited income for entertainment and you just lost all the marketing from people enjoying the "freemium" model of games. Even if someone would never ever buy your game they can act as a free advertiser on the internet for that game and bring more value to the publisher than they would from a non-pirate.
>>339961816
And? We're not there. There's still too much labour intensive work that needs to be done and too much that can't satisfy the requirements of post-scarcity, especially when it comes to bigger things than food and water
>>339961590
Oh ok. So as of tomorrow, everything is free. Money no longer exists. We should be fine then, right? Absolutely no problems.
>>339962195
How do you know? CD sales were steady before piracy, then it tanked. That's proof alone of what you're saying is false
Demos
>>339962189
At that point, it's not morally wrong at all, but it's still technically piracy.
>>339962189
>Is that morally wrong?
No. Do you really want the rest of the answer? In principal yes, but no one here is hounding you for doing that, of course not
>>339962334
Im not talking about the CD selling industry, do you mean music industry? Music industry has been steadily growing every year past decades.
>>339962576
>carpentry as a hobby isn't the same mental process as what drives people to sit in front of minecraft for days on end
It isn't retard.
I do general repairs for a park for a living so I "Play minecraft" for a living according to you you big fat retard.
You're out of your element, and it shows.
>>339957343
A runabout?
>>339960251
>informed consumer
You can watch gameplay videos, you faggot
>>339962991
>You can't enjoy your job
wew lad.
>>339962961
Everyones pc is different, its hard to tell how well game actually runs without executing the game on your system or wether you like the controls without playing with them.
>>339958671
Hmmm, you don't? Things were cheaper before but with inflation, not really. We can argue all day about how much better games were before etc, but did you really get more value? I don't we think we should disregard the fact that there were just as many kusoge back then as there is now. You can imagine the disappoint renting a game for a whole day and then it turns out to be superman 64 or something
>>339962189
no because the games should be off copyright and the reason they aren't is because of illegal activity.
>>339963334
>Would you do your job if you weren't getting paid
People volunteer at soup kitchens and science centers, my job keeps me healthy, if I wasn't getting paid I'd set my own hours though.
If you're going to keep saying that building a house or landscaping territory is the same as minecraft I'm going to keep calling you retarded
>Implying any "Gamer" would be out in the sun for more than an hour a day
>Implying any "Gamer" has enough people skills to cooperate with someone on a big project
>Implying implications.
Playing CoD doesn't make you an S+ sniper in the military, kill yourself.
Last reply if you say something stupid again.
>>339956125
>people actually defend a industry that has gone to shit in the last 10 years
>people defend dlc and season passes
>people defend lazy and poorly designed games with a franchise name for 70 dollarydoos
Do you guys actually support this idea?
Is 4chan full of normies nowadays?
Why do you all act like you actually care? Do you know where you are?
The entire internet was built on one concept, everything for everyone.
If people didn't want their shit to be pirated they would do like in Gran Turismo 4 and make copies with the code backwards so people couldn't burn the ISO on any CD.
Piracy is just another form of marketing because faggots like you say "oy vey I need a copy of this despite having it on my PC already."
We live in a world where a 40yo man wastes most of his income in anime figurines, where people buy games for the price of 4 meals in a restaurant, and you try to come here and school us all?
I pirate all my fucking stuff and I will keep doing it, and if the industry dies I will find another thing to keep me entertained.
What's the fucking matter.
>>339958026
>but if it doesn't live up to expectations you can return it 99% of the time probably, as you can with video games (don't claim that you can't)
Why? It's the truth. With the exception of Steam/Origin you can't get a full return on already opened games. There is literally no return policy on the Nintendo eshop and stores don't give refunds for physical opened games.
>>339959798
But that's not my point. There are games I know to be good and will buy, yet there are some people that are willing to buy but don't because they can. That's where I draw the line between good and bad
I use piracy as a way to "demo" games. It seems these days games get released with too many game breaking bugs and glitches. And if that's the case, I won't buy it. It often takes too long for legal patches and fixes to come out. And if I have to use pirated resources to make the game work, why buy it in the first place?
>>339963564
>no because the games should be off copyright and the reason they aren't is because of disney
ftfy
>>339963954
So by saying the industry has gone to shit, there are literally no games for you that you're willing to pay for? That seems pretty narrow minded. There are good games, whether the ratio of good to bad games tips in favor of a large sea of bad games or whatever
>>339964064
>Keeps saying cognitive dissonance
>Doesn't know what it means
>Trying to sound smart
>Can't even construct a sentence properly with his words
>Dunning-Kruger
>When it's not even applicable.
I know I said I wouldn't reply if you kept being stupid, but that was too much, I'm hiding the rest of your posts, reading this drivel is making me mad.
>>339964246
>That seems pretty narrow minded
So is decrying piracy on a mongolian shitposting board where copyright is infringed every second of the day
>>339964310
So there's no games at all, in the past present or future, you are willing to pay for yet you still feel the need to consume because you get value out of it? That's where I call you destructive.
The point is that if we all thought like you do there'd be no shitty industry for you to whine about to begin with
Name a game that is worth pirating but is not worth paying for/waiting for going on sale.
You literally can't. You can't make me even pirate Mirror's Edge 2 because I disliked the first one.
>>339964246
Nigger the Xbox 360 was my last console for a reason.
>>339956125
Because I work minimum wage and can barely pay for my apartment. i save a ton of money pirating games
>>339964464
I'm not the same anon you were arguing with. Also you're clearly reaching with that hyperbole.
>>339958026
>but if it doesn't live up to expectations you can return it 99% of the time probably, as you can with video games (don't claim that you can't)
But you can't return a video game after you open it unless it gets recalled or something similar. That's one of the biggest issues that causes piracy in the first place. Imagine paying $50-$60 for a game, playing it for an hour and realizing you hate it. Reviews made it look good, the trailers looked good, but the game is just buggy crap. No store will take it back. You might be able to get some store credit for it as a trade-in, but not anywhere near full value. You're just shit outta luck.
And while you might be okay with that happening once or twice, after that you just stop buying the games without being able to play them beforehand. But demos don't really exist anymore, and rental is limited.
>>339964570
Every game because unlike you people can waste their money in something that is not pixels moving on a screen you entitled little shit.
>"p-people pirate games"
Then fucking donate millions to a company if you don't want to see it go bankrupt.
What hapens, you can't? YOU DON'T WANT TO SPEND MONEY ANON?
YOU DON'T WANT TO PAY FOR VIDEOGAMES?
>>339964517
Somehow I don't think that's true. Maybe you're just a very cynical or jaded person if you struggle to find that little spark of excitement
>>339964576
Are we only talking about consoles?
>>339964610
It's a simple question really and it's been in the OP since the start, is there game you like but refuse to pay for even if you're willing and able? It seems kinda silly to me because you'd think that a rational person want to see more of it
>>339956125
>Do you just want to save some bucks?
yes
> Do you want to spite nintendo?
yes
> The result is that you're hurting the developers
who cares
>you like
i don't like them ;^) they are shills
>Is that what you really want?
whatever happens happens. >caring that much
lmao plen
>>339964464
Piracy is destroying the video game industry, much in the same way it destroyed the music industry and the movie industry. Piracy is such a powerful force that it can cause massive destruction despite obstacles like “baseless supposition” and “lack of evidence”. It’s the Freddy Kreuger of any business: you can’t ever see it because it damages you in your dreams, with the injury magically becoming real, but then it’s too late. It’s that strong
>>339956125
I could of sworn Free shop only let you install games that you have extracted the regret from, aka, games you already own
>>339956125
I usually pirate older games that aren't available anymore, but a lot of games I've pirated wouldn't have been worth the money I spent.
Also, if someone walked into your store and duplicated your wares, the owner would probably try to hire them.
If people could duplicate items like that in real life, we'd all be fed with houses and everything. We would be free to create new technologies and whatever else without having to toil for basic necessities.
>>339964791
How can you kill what's already dead?
>>339958964
Investors tend to demand unrealistic sales numbers. Every game won't hit AAA sales even its good. But you can't convince the people with the funds to just be happy making a small profit.
>>339956125
>plus tax after shop price
lmao is this pricing works in america?
>>339964791
So the games are made out of thin air with no factors going into it? You'd think there would be an industry of games when nobody sees money from it? The least you could say that you're grateful for the others who are willing to sustain it.
"the piracy isn't real" concept just doesn't work. If I had a button that prevented piracy instantly, I can guarantee you that sales would increase by at least one unit, and that destroys your agument
>>339956125
I pirate anything that uses shitty drm. that includes steam games
>>339956125
i do it because i know i can get away with it and i can save money by doing so. i also know the proportion of people who pirate games is not large enough to have most developers i care about go under because of the supposed lost sales they receive.
in other words, its a consequence free acquiring of a good that costs money usually but does not in this specific case. as an individual, its in my best interest to pursue this line of action, because it allows me to further accumulate money without having to spend it.
obviously if i had a significant disposable income i would be more willing to spend larger sums of money on video games. as of now, i buy games for developers who i think are exceptional and create fantastic top of the line games, but i don't want to buy products that i'm not sure of the quality of or have no experience with, so i'll pirate those instead. if i had a higher disposable income, i might be willing to spend more money on these more risky games from my consumer point of view.
this is how things typically work for me: i'll pirate a game from a developer i've never heard about and play through it if i enjoy it. if i thought it was exceptional, that developer goes on my 'great dev' list, and i'm much more likely to buy their next game than pirate it.
>>339956125
Exposé in song!
https://youtu.be/IeTybKL1pM4
>>339964772
this post
this is a very good post
>We're talking about the guy that was willing to pay for games (why otherwise would you have a 3DS?)
I own my 3DS specifically for piracy, wouldn't have bought it otherwise. Not going to bother reading this thread full of bad faith arguments why piracy is stealing worse than murder, just wanted to point that out.
>>339964761
>It seems kinda silly to me because you'd think that a rational person want to see more of it
This argument no longer holds after the FE Fates localization debacle which proves you won't get the games you want even if you buy them.
>>339965298
>gun isnt called denuvo
>>339956125
i buy games from companies or individuals that I want to support.
>>339956690
the difference between a bike and software is you own the bike when you buy it. with software, you dont' own it, you license to use it for a limited time under constraints.
additionally, it costs a person time and effort to make more bikes after designing the first one. with software, you can copy a product endlessly and without effort after designing it. i'm not justifying piracy, but your analogy breaks down after cursory examination.
>>339965543
shiet, my rock needs better communication on the outside world
>muh conscience muh morals muh thievery muh law muh copyright muh business muh poor starving devs
i don't give a fuck. i will get games for free and there is LITERALLY N O T H I N G you can do about it.
>>339965210
thanks, it seems like you are the only non-pleb on this board (excluding me)
>>339965062
You cannot make that guarentee because you cannot, with any accuracy, state that because your game was pirated 300 times you lost 300 sales. You cannot prove even one lost sale because there is no evidence to state that any one person who pirated your game would have bought your game if piracy did not exist. From an accounting perspective it’s speculative and a company cannot accurately determine loss or gain based on speculative accounting. You can’t rely on revenue due to speculation, you can’t build a company off of what will “probably” happen. Watch “The Smartest Guys in the Room” and see how that worked out for Enron.
"the piracy is destructive" concept just doesn't work, due to lack of evidence and baseless suppostion. That completely destroys your argument.
>>339965665
could you give some/one example?
I don't understand why piracy is even an issue. When has free advertisement ever been a bad thing? The most pirated games are also the ones with the highest sell numbers.
>>339965062
>So the games are made out of thin air with no factors going into it? You'd think there would be an industry of games when nobody sees money from it? The least you could say that you're grateful for the others who are willing to sustain it.
I'm sure you pay for all the porn, music, movies, anime, comics and books you consume? You buy each and every one of them to show gratitude towards the people who's works you consume because surely you're not a total fucking hypocrite trying to lecutre people about the evils of piracy on 4chan's vidya board
>>339965865
I don't think that's a causal relationship.
It's more likely that the games with the most sales have the most demand within and without the market.
Thread reminder that doing anything outside of buying the game brand new within a few months of release is piracy in the eyes of developers/publishers. Rental is piracy. Buying used is piracy. Borrowing from a friend is piracy. Watching it on Youtube is piracy. Buying it from the discount/clearance bin is piracy.
>>339965791
4chan is full of normies nowadays
>>339965665
>>339965808
You're both asinine. You're saying that if piracy ends now, sales would go down? At worst it would remain the same because all the non-pirates would just keep up with their usual behaviour
If we consider large numbers, if we have ONE just one person that is willing to buy but don't buy because of piracy, but then buys because piracy ends, that's a net gain.
You're saying that this lacks evidence, just like saying that "everyone who buys games pirates first therefore piracy increases sales.
Piracy destroyed the PSP, especially japanese devs localizing games in the west, I don't get how you can come up with such a boldfaced lie that piracy doesn't hurt games when there's so many examples
>>339966071
Yet for some reason this logic doesn't apply to pirated games with the lowest sales numbers. I wonder why that is.
>>339964735
>paying for games makes me entitled
Nice bait
>>339966148
>If we consider large numbers, if we have ONE just one person that is willing to buy but don't buy because of piracy, but then buys because piracy ends, that's a net gain.
You cannot prove even one lost sale because there is no evidence to state that any one person who pirated your game would have bought your game if piracy did not exist. From an accounting perspective it’s speculative and a company cannot accurately determine loss or gain based on speculative accounting. You can’t rely on revenue due to speculation, you can’t build a company off of what will “probably” happen. Watch “The Smartest Guys in the Room” and see how that worked out for Enron.
>>339956125
i sold all my 3ds gamesexcept cubicninja :^)MONTHS ago
I haven't touched my 3ds in a little under a year
I would never buy another 3ds game as long as I live
When I heard about the fre eshop yesterday I spent the day fucking with nands and now I have every game that I would ever want to have played on the 3ds.
How is it a lost sale if I would have never EVER paid for these games?
>>339965950
jokes on you, i don't consume any media that is charged money. the only music i have are the CDs gifted to me. the only movies I watch are the ones gifted to me, and the Art films posted for free -and legally- online. Anime is for people who like anime - Oh I did purchase Redline. dope as shit IMO. I only read free comics. My porn is paid for by advertising revenue. My music is Free as in freedoms as well. Bandcamp and soundcloud are wonderful services. I also buy games that are worth my time, so i don't buy any games. the last developer I gave money to was Tarn Adams; and he deserves a lot more than I can afford
>>339966148
>You're saying that if piracy ends now, sales would go dow
Strawman. Nobody actually said this.
>just like saying that "everyone who buys games pirates first therefore piracy increases sales.
Strawman.
>Piracy destroyed the PSP
Baseless supposition
>especially japanese devs localizing games in the west
Lack of evidence
>I don't get how you can come up with such a boldfaced lie that piracy doesn't hurt games when there's so many examples
Which are baseless supposition.
You are literally shitting out of your mouth.
>>339966351
>How is it a lost sale if I would have never EVER paid for these games?
Simple, I don't believe you. You only say this because we live in a paradigm where piracy is the norm. You'd have a completely different paradigm with it not existing
OP starts with the assumption that a dying, obsolete business practice is a moral issue
which is incorrect
then asks you to specify exactly what the moral parameters are, when it was never a moral question in the first place
>>339966425
>jokes on you, i don't consume any media that is charged money.
>except video games convininetly
>>339966510
in the last week alone, I bought Overwatch, Dark Souls 3, two copies of rocket league for my friends, and total war warhammer
I have better games to play, and I probably won't even touch my 3ds for more than a few minutes until my road trip in July
>>339966510
"in a fantasy world, things would be different"
>>339966510
>Simple, I don't believe you.
Considering the burden of proof is on you to show damages/loss due to piracy, it's pretty irrelavent whether or not you believe him. Especially when you have nothing but hypotheticals and assumptions.
>>339966582
>being ignorant.
I said "I don't buy games"
I implied I donate to developers who distribute their games for free, like Tarn Adams.
>pay money for a game
>shitty drm
>locked to device
> game destroying glitches and bugs on day 1 release
>portions of the game locked being bullshit dlc nonsense
>$60 purchase suddenly becomes $250 if I want the "full" game
>growing need for constant internet connections
>pirate game
>game works perfectly
>can play offline no problem
>all content available
>can move the digital files between devices as much as I like
>can backup files as needed
>great low price of free
Maybe the devs should make sure they make the better versions of their own game.
>>339966621
Holy hell then you're proving me right. Read the OP again, fuck sake. Did you buy them because you felt you had to because of denuvo or whatever, or did you feel to buy them because you like it, you were willing and you want to suppor the devs?
We're not just talking about the 3DS again
>>339966718
>I also buy games that are worth my time, so i don't buy any games.
>calling others ignorant
>>339966761
if i can get a game for free
why would i pay for it
if theres a game i want to buy
i'll buy it
but SPECIFICALLY about the 3ds, how is it a lost sale if I was never going to buy these games
>>339966471
>>Piracy destroyed the PSP
>Baseless supposition
>>especially japanese devs localizing games in the west
>Lack of evidence
Lol, just lol man. Okay, keep believing that, not gonna spoonfeed you one google search. You wouldn't even have to google if you weren't so new
>>339966148
>You're both asinine.
Says the guy who is claiming damages from piracy without any actual evidence.
Says the guy making guarentees that piracy increases sales without any actual evidence
Says the guy proselytizing about how piracy is killing the industry is on an imageboard where content is pirated without permission all day long
If anything you're the one coming up with boldfaced lies that piracy hurts games and killed developemnt when your so called "examples" are assumptions without actual hard evidence. You're the most asinine fuckwad in this entire thread.
>>339966759
>buy dark souls 3
>visual glitches
>game crashes
>no audio glitch
>immediately refund it but keep the files
>install a crack for the hell of it
>game works perfectly
>never buy the game again because it's working perfectly
If the shopkeeper wanted to stay in business, he should have hired all these autistic kids who can conjure fucking bikes out of thin air and cut out the manufacturer.
>>339967127
>so ignorant he had to look up the definition of the word
>I also buy games that are worth my time, so i don't buy any games.
>>339965651
I personally dont care if you pirate games and know youre practially stealing shitI do it
Its the people who pirate and try to act like they arent stealing that are cancer
>>339967237
but those kids would just fabricate monies out of thin air. money that belonged to the shopkeeper.
>>339967372
why not all games exclusive to consoles?
>>339966996
It's not
>>339967039
The evidence comes from the fact that there are people willing to buy a game, but that piracy is a greater convenience so they choose that instead. It's not any more far fetched than claiming that piracy increases sales when there are more examples to prove otherwise than for it.
>Says the guy who is claiming damages from piracy without any actual evidence.
I already said the PSP m8. Piracy was close to 70%. Japan stopped localizing games for it because sales were that low even though they still make games for it to this day. If you're still going to claim that that isn't damaging then go fuck yourself
But you're still going to claim that none of those hundreds of thousands wouldn't buy it anyway which you hypocritically have no evidence for either, but my stance is actually more rational to assume that at least one just one person would buy if piracy wasn't an option
>>339967021
>Piracy destroyed the PSP and japanese devs localizing games in the west
>not baseless supposition and Lack of evidence
>Lol, just lol man keep beliving that!
Meanwhile we're seeing more localizations than ever before and the successor to the PSP is selling demonstrably worse depsite the former being unpiratable.
You're not going to "spoonfeed" evidence because you don't actaully have any, instead you resort to calling me a newfag for pointing out you're full of shit while you whine that piracy causes mass destruction on a board that used to have daily share threads.
Commit sudoku my man.
>>339966759
Developers and publishers are often quick to screw over their more loyal, paying customers in a poor attempt to attack pirates. Then when these customers get mad and complain, the companies don't do shit to fix the problem. And they wonder why so many people are moving towards piracy.
>>339967742
i'm not going to take your word for it. give me some evidence.
>>339963954
.....I pirate
>>339967467
I'm sure he could "coerce" them into joining his new counterfeiting operation then.
>>339965651
This. Couldn't have said it better myself.
I don't see why people get so assblasted over 3ds and WiiU piracy when everyone fucking emulates snes, gba, gamecube and wii games.
I think they're mad because they don't know how to follow simple instructions. Then again, it is the modern nintendo fanbase we're talking about. Fucking children, the lot of 'em.
>>339968089
if it's so easy, it shouldn't be a problem for you to fetch it for me
>>339956125
I pirate because i hate videogames
>>339964761
>is there game you like but refuse to pay for even if you're willing and able? It seems kinda silly to me because you'd think that a rational person want to see more of it
every big franchise you can think of (besides halo/gran turismo . halo was shit and racing games ain't my thing)
have been raped over and over , supporting "your favorite franchise" does jack shit
want a franchise that isn't from before 2004? take soul games for example
>>339963954
Pretty much. The business practices have gotten a lot more questionable, but I wouldn't say everything has gone to shit. Not quite yet.
I do support actually good devs and good authors though.
>>339967810
>Meanwhile we're seeing more localizations than ever before and the successor to the PSP is selling demonstrably worse depsite the former being unpiratable.
You're defeating yourself here. How many PSP and vita localizations do we get respectively? In just looking at the numbers it clear that devs have more faith in the vita than the PSP because they know they can at least achieve sales there
And btw if you think the vita sells worse than the PSP because of lack of piracy then you're wrong, they're products from two different eras. The vita is competing with mobile phones, the PSP didn't. It's that easy.
The 3DS which everyone considers a success, also sells demonstrably worse because of this same fact
>use the seeds from my corn to grow new corn
>buyfags have a problem with this
>>339956125
ease of convenience
saving money
my dad has always promoted pirating nintendo games as i grew up
sorry faggot but your guilt trip isn't going to work
I'll pirate if I can do it conveniently enough. I personally don't care to jump some of the hoops to pirate on my 3DS (also I rarely touch it much these days)
But if I lack a pirating convenience beyond free? Then I'll purchase it on a huge discount because I'm going to save money somewhere.
Why is pirating on consoles never even mentioned on /v/?
A vast majority of people here own unlocked/hacked consoles. It's slightly shittier than pc pirating, because there is no way to play multiplayer and you actually have to buy the DVDs. But most people own consoles to play splitscreen co op, so it's all good.
>>339967745
>The evidence comes from [my baseless supposition] is now fact
Come back when you have more than just conjecture and hypotheticals to back up your argument.
>I already said the PSP m8. Piracy was close to 70%.
[citation needed]
Piracy on the Vita is 0% yet still has lower sales both software and hardware wise.
>Japan stopped localizing games for it because sales were that low
Again baseless supposition and lack of evidence. The PSP is a legacy console.
>If you're still going to claim that that isn't damaging then go fuck yourself
Your damages are imaginary and unsupported by reality. So you can go fuck yourself.
>my stance is actually more rational to assume that at least one just one person would buy if piracy wasn't an option
Except your stance is based entirely on hypotheticals and assumptions, which makes you entirely irrational.
>>339956718
it IS his bike. he paid for the product in order to sell it and somebody stole that very same bike
>>339956125
Games are horribly priced here where I live on Nintendo Store and PSN store, so I pirate PS and 3DS and buy shit on Steam because they keep prices low for my shit economy.
Otherwise I might pirate just to see if I'll like the game, if I like it I'll buy it.
But yeah I only buy games on Steam.
>>339957280
If you can't pay, you can't play.
I'm sorry you like games and can't afford them.
But it's not like you're starving and need a loaf of bread, it's a luxury and you can't afford it.
i just pirate because my single pirate has not lost nintendo or whatever other company even a fraction of a fraction of sales. it literally does not matter at all, nintendo doesn't lose and i become happy. and no one else pirates more or less than me, either, because any influence i have on the pirated games popularity is also extremely miniscule, not changing anything at all. i don't go around telling other people to pirate or anything, at worst I'll inform a friend or two (who already would have pirated the game or not) that i pirated the game. ppease inform me of a reason that this is wrong.
>>339968531
you LITERALLY can't do that. They're completely sterile and won't produce crops if planted in the ground.
Also, less important, they're intellectual properties as they are GMOs (either gene-splicing or decades of selective parenting); so using them to plant new crops is a violation of copyright law.
>>339968823
>Whole argument boils down to "You're just poor"
You dropped something senpai.
You're talking about Nintendo. They release the same game over and over. Why pay for the same game more than once?
>>339959935
What if he just copied a random bike off the street, that another guy had bought?
Checkmate, buyfags.
>>339956125
I use pirating as a demo service
Unfortunately as I'm getting older, fewer and fewer games interest me anymore
>>339968476
>In just looking at the numbers it clear that devs have more faith in the vita than the PSP
Despite the fact the Vita has less software than the PSP.
You're defetating yourself here by moving the goalposts from lost sales to lost localizations and looking at the numbers attributing them to piracy based on flawed correlation=causation logic
>And btw if you think the vita sells worse than the PSP because of lack of piracy then you're wrong
Another strawman. I never said lack of piracy hurts the PSP. Just pointing out that vita sales directly refute your claim that lack of piracy helps sales.
>they're products from two different eras. The vita is competing with mobile phones, the PSP didn't. It's that easy.
What a convininent cop out to dismiss the fact that piracy doesn't negatively impact sales of eoither
>The 3DS which everyone considers a success, also sells demonstrably worse because of this same fact
You don't know what the word demonstrably means, because reality shows the exact opposite of what you're claiming. The DS and 3DS sells demonstrably better than the PSP and Vita both software and hardware despite the fact
Basically, you're a delusional fuckwad who blames piracy for the PSP's failure. There's no use in reasoning with you because you're completely irrational
>>339968823
>what is piracy
Bike analogy is bad because the ability to physically copy something is not an ability available to the majority consumer base.
If only you can magically copy something without removing the item from their stock, they still sell that item at a later time and don't lose out on it. If everyone can magically copy the bike, then we start seeing whatever the equivalent of physical DRM is. Bikes out of reach so they can't be copied. Bike displays built with intentional flaws to prevent copies. Etc.
The problem with digital piracy is there's no way to actually track supply and understand how much is "stolen", since the owners of the product never lose anything.
I'm a university student living in South America.
I don't have money to buy all of the 3DS games I want to play.
>>339969415
*The DS and 3DS sells demonstrably better than the PSP and Vita both software and hardware despite the fact that piracy is more widespread on Nintendo portables than Sony's
You could by flashcarts from Walmart and use cheat devices sold at retail to pirate games without any technical knowledge used to exploit the PSP for piracy. No CFW, just a $5 cart for hassle-free pirated games.
Do people not understand what patents and copywrite law are? Its not about the physical tangible object itself. I don't care if you 'disagree' with the idea or not because the law is absolute. Go to talk your congressman.
>>339968823
>If you can't pay, you can't play.
Sure, just tell people they can no longer enjoy luxuries like music and movies and porn because they won't pay
Oh wait.
>>339956546
he didnt copy fish and bread from a fishmonger or a baker though. its not like he went to a bazaar and saw something someone worked on day to make and then decided to just copy that and hand out all the copies.
also this never happened.
>>339956125
If I was the bike shop owner I'd hire that guy to make more bikes for me in exchange for getting one
>>339969716
What are you trying to say? Its all piracy if the outlet is not allowed regardless of how easy or socially accepted it is. Even if 99% of the population listens to music against musicians wishes on Youtube that doesnt make it legal or okay. The problem is that its not enforceable.
>>339969713
When huge numbers of people decide to do something new, then -- like it or not -- that new thing automatically becomes the moral norm.
In this case, huge numbers of people have all independently decided that copyright is not as important to them as it is to the congressmen who felt it necessary to install a strong copyright regime into law.
So I have a choice: I can take my cues about whether or not piracy is justified from the millions of people who have all decided that copyright is not a particularly important concept. Or I can take my cues about morality from a few hundred congressmen who had their re-election expenses paid in part by the publishing industry as a quid-pro-quo to ensure that tough copyright laws got passed.
As you can probably guess, this isn't really a hard moral call for me to make.
>>339962961
>why test drive a car when you can just watch someone else drive it?
watching someone play a game and playing it yourself is so much different. You'll never feel the subtleties of the way the game controls, if there's choices you might not take the same path.
To add to that, a shitload of gameplay videos on youtube are of some screaming autist playing the game like a retard trying to make youtube bux, they're not very indicative of how the game seems to the average consumer
>>339962334
>CD sales were steady before piracy, then it tanked.
They tanked because you could now get single songs instead of being forced to buy the $20 album for the song you wanted and maybe an extra song or two that sounded okay. It's almost entirely dead now because you can buy single songs for .99 each unless they're asses and lock them like the South Park set locking La Resistance behind the bundle.
>>339965298
>pulling a gun on wizards
>>339969967
>Even if 99% of the population listens to music against musicians wishes on Youtube that doesnt make it legal or okay. The problem is that its not enforceable.
see >>339969971
>>339970049
9/11
>>339970058
Because mob rule is such a good idea. You have no proof about the corruption of those elites. You just make assumptions because of their wealth and success. Intellectuals should decide what is best for society, not just the majority.
>>339962961
If I gave my opinion on a game based solely of gameplay videos I would get completely shit on /v/ and any other board for never having played it.
Yet somehow this same info is a good enough basis for my puchasing decisions?
Go
Fuck
Yourself
>>339970367
Slow down there Aristotle. Modern democracy is not mob rule.
>>339962334
Napster led to the advent of digitial distribution, which is the best thing that could have ever happend to the music industry for both artists and listeners alike. It boggles the mind how people like you can claim otherwise because we're not forced to use CDs anymore.
Is /v/ full of shills for record labels or something? I don't understand how people can be this asinine.
I don't really care too much if people pirate. I just abstain from pirating because I've got enough shit to do and enough of a backlog to conquer. Getting everything for free is boring.
>>339957768
This
If your game was fucking shit I have every right to return it instead the industry wants to fuck people over.
>>339970367
>You have no proof
>You just make assumptions
wew lad, just blowing past the gates of irony there
>>339970367
who defines what an intellectual is?
I hate to break it to you, but "intellectuals" are just as prone to being deceived and making poor decisions as everyone else.
>>339968731
So where are you proving that PSP wasn't rampaged by piracy? No one is saying here that games weren't sold, but that devs lost faith in localizations because western piracy was so big. It's not a supposition, it's a fact.
And are you also trying to use the vita as proof that piracy is good? As I explained earlier it's because the hardware were made in different times. Both the vita and the 3DS are competing with mobile which dominates them both. Their concepts were made at a time when mobiles weren't as complex and filled with functionalities like they are now. Both the 3DS and vita sell demonstrably worse compared to their respective predecessors.
This is a FACT. Even PC sales are slowing down because of mobile, especially in Japan if we look at a country as a case because they can do much of what they can do on PC on their phone now.
Yet you use the PSP vs Vita argument as face value evidence that piracy is good when the vita has better attach rate then the PSP. Also, your little wikipedia screencap there has outdated information, just fyi.
>>339969415
>Despite the fact the Vita has less software than the PSP.
Yeah it's sold less units because of reasons already stated which you just repeat and don't refute and call it a cop out when it's a business wide fact in other sectors other than handheld gaming. Idiot.
So we have
>piracy on the DS wasn't as bad as the PSP so piracy on the PSP didn't have any severe effects
okay, not convincing. I just noticed that you seem to think that we care about hardware sales here. SOFTWARE, that's all it's been about since the start
>The DS and 3DS sells demonstrably better than the PSP and Vita both software and hardware despite the fact
You have yet to link it to how that proves that piracy is good and not bad. So what you're basically saying is that the nintendo and PSP audience are completely different and that one pirates a game, tries out, then buys it, while the other pirates it and don't buys it.
>>339970629
Doesn't change the fact that the argument that piracy doesn't affect sales is false.
>>339970367
>Intellectuals should decide what is best for society, not just the majority.
>Industry lobbyists are intellectuals
>>339970752
just look at Ben Carson
>>339970629
Until recently, bandwidth limitations meant streaming quality music was an impossibility.
if digital distribution had come about more recently, we wouldn't still be listening to loudness-equalized or frequency-capped compressed audio tracks. Digital distribution is great, but it is also flawed for anyone who wants to listen to something with the same quality as a CD.
In a world where games cost 80 (!) Canadabucks and every other game has $200 worth of DLC available, there's no fucking way you could convince me to cough up that much.
If developers and publishers aren't happy with the amount of sales, they need to do something to either cut down initial price of the game, or stop fucking us with DLC shakedowns every 3 months on games that will have no players or developer support in a year
>>339970846
Actually it does, especially since that's not a fact.
The fact that the argument that piracy affects sales negatively is false, or at the very least unproven.
>>339961474
Sega
>>339956125
>Why? Do you just want to save some bucks? Do you want to spite nintendo? The result is that you're hurting the developers you like and in the end you're creating a self-fulfilling prophecy where you either don't get the games you want because they just cease to exist or they get dumbed down, or moved to mobile platforms, or whatever. Is that what you really want?
>Why not instead buy the game with good conscience so we get more of what we love?
I don't care. I don't care about any of that shit. If I can pay for something or have it for free just as easilly, I'll take the free one.
>>339956125
>>339956546
Can someone edit this into jesus conjuring up bread and fish?
>>339971197
Sega went under because they made shit games, actually.
>>339959402
man games are so copied now a days its like making your own shitty bike. Everyone gets the basic concept so they just slap one together with spare parts and try to sell it on the market. And the games they make are basically rusty death machines in bike analogy land.
>>339971273
>I don't care. I don't care about any of that shit. If I can pay for something or have it for free just as easilly, I'll take the free one.
This is the only argument that anyone should present.
>>339971102
It objectively did. It was a time before p2p delivery was common as it is today yet you refuse to look at it through the perspective of the technology that was available back then.
You can say that piracy leads companies to adapt, sure. But you can't say that piracy didn't lead them to lose sales when record labels tanked
>>339971367
Nah, piracy was rampant on the dreamcast and probably costed them millions
>>339956125
This argument makes no sense because it runs on the assumption that if I provide money to a developer through products I don't like they MIGHT eventually make the one(s) I like. I'd rather withhold funds from them in an attempt to inform them that I dislike their current products.
>>339971557
>probably
I've seen 'oh piracy is why X failed, piracy costs companies millions' so much, but it's all just baseless conjecture, do you have any facts to support this?
>>339970756
>which you just repeat and don't refute and call it a cop out
Because it is a cop out. Meanwhile you just repeat that piracy killed localizations and the PSP without refuting anything.
>okay, not convincing. I just noticed that you seem to think that we care about hardware sales here. SOFTWARE, that's all it's been about since the start
The difference is irrelavent because both software and hardware sales are inferrior on the Vita than they are on the PSP/3DS/DS. That's all it takes to kill off your correlation = causation argument. ie high piracy = low sales
>You have yet to link it to how that proves that piracy is good and not bad.
I don't need to, my point is that piracy is not bad. You have yet to prove how piracy is bad and not good. I don't need to prove a null hypothisis.
>So what you're basically saying is
So what you're basically doing is strawmaning my argument because you can't actually address what I'm saying so instead you twist my words into something else entirely.
It doesn't matter if you find this convincing, we've already established that you're an unreasonable irrtaional subhuman.
>>339956546
>>339971309
Jesus confirmed pirate, christfags btfo.
More news at 12.
>>339971751
Yes, the usual "I wasn't going to buy it anyway" argument that is equally as baseless. Except we know peoples actions, piracy was rampant because it was that easy to just burn a CD disk and play it on their dreamcast, but according to you they'd never buy it anyway, nope.
>>339971986
I never said "I wasn't going to buy it anyways" way to put words in my mouth while fumbling around with your retarded reasoning though
>>339956546
I'm jewish, so I never learned how this was supposed to work. Did he like, put a fish in a top hat and pull two out? Did they just appear from thin air in front of everyone's eyes?
I like to believe he just got one fish and one loaf of bread, put them on a really long table, and just stretched them out for like an hour, with a bunch of starving people cutting off chunks of this infinite fish/loaf train.
>>339971470
You don't know what objectively means. Protip: Your opinions are not facts when you call them objective.
Your'e the one who refuses to look at it through the perspective of the technology and disregard the fact that said p2p techonology was iterated and populairzed by the advent of free distribution.
>But you can't say that piracy didn't lead them to lose sales
I can because it's a fact. The lost sales argument is inherently flawed.
If you're going to sit here on 4chan and pontificate on how piracy killed record labels and hurts the music industry then you really should just kill yourself for being such a worthless RIAA shill
>>339971816
>Because it is a cop out
It's, mobile has changed games as a whole and computing and services everywhere else. The market that usually bought handhelds don't because they can play on their ipad and phones now. I really don't get why you make such a big deal out of it, nintendo and sony has both stated this, but of course this must all be a dream to them right? Just conjecture? Like you say with everything else.
The 3DS sells better than the vita, but a lot less than the DS and it's because of mobile. You can keep repeating that it's not true and it won't change
>>339970756
So where are you proving that PSP was rampaged by piracy?
Oh wait, you haven't. All you've posted is baseless supposition, assumptions on a lack of evidence, and blatant lies to blame piracy then move the goalposts to blaming mobile when it's convininent
Opinion discarded
>>339972639
> i am silly
it'd be more apt to compare it to clinical psychology as neither one has verifiable or falsifiable claims.
>>339972370
>I really don't get why you make such a big deal out of it
If anything I should be asking you that question.
I really don't get why you make such a big deal out of piracy, especailly when you've been refuted and then fall back unto blaming mobile when the reality doesn't line up with your claim.
>Just conjecture? Like you say with everything else.
Everything you've said so far has been nothing but conjecture and assumptions yes. You have failed to provide even a shred of evidence that piracy kills games and based on the correlation=causation logic you're using it would be the oppsoite.
Console with piracy have historically sold better than those without. You can keep repeating that it's not true and it won't change. No amount of pedantic shitflining over the difference between the PSP and Vita era will change that fact.
>>339973065
>> i am silly
You're using that meme incorrectly.
>>339967745
>But you're still going to claim that none of those hundreds of thousands wouldn't buy it anyway which you hypocritically have no evidence for either
Ah yes, it's the "shift the burden of proof and claim victory because of hypocrisy" tactic
>>339972639
Okay, so you don't believe that piracy didn't kill localizations for the PSP and diminished sales for every games even though this is a fact. Those greedy companies must have just lied about it when more than 70% of the total playerbase of a game never bought it. It's a conspiracy, or it was just such a shit game that everyone tried out and decided not to buy because everyone follows the same pattern of logic as you.
The mobile stuff is true. If what you're saying is true, then the 3DS should sell close to DS numbers now, since piracy is available on it and vita should remain bottom of the barrel because it doesn't have piracy, when in fact both have seen sizeable drop in sales because of mobile. It's not conjecture because all parties are saying it
Except you because you just cant accept that you're wrong
>>339971071
The industry would have been no better off if digital distribution had come later rather than before because of no piracy. If anything it would have been worse.
>Digital distribution is great, but it is also flawed for anyone who wants to listen to something with the same quality as a CD.
That's what uncompressed formats like .flac are for.
Ironically distributed mostly through pirate sites and trackers.
>>339973328
you keep saying the word 'fact' but all i see is hot opinions and no sources to back you up
>>339973606
It's not an opinion that mobiles have diminished handheld sales, bud. It's not an opinion that the handheld with the most piracy correlated with less sales
Keep being a contrarian
