How come game designers suck so much at level design? This level for example, was created 20+ years ago and it still has better level design thatn 90% of what is made today.
It's sad.
>>339884450
money. no one gives a shit about good game design nowadays. take whatever is popular and bandwagon and you'll mostly secure a decent profit. ea has been doing it and yeah they are soulless by they are smart. gamers are foolish enough to be nickled and dimed by them so why not treat them like cash cows?
>>339884709
That's so fucken weird...don't people know what a good game feels like? Plays like?
For example, everyone is shilling the newest metal gear game, but it's pretty lame and boring.
>>339884450
here is my guess
basically back when split-screen multiplayer was the thing: the idea of "hiding spots" was pretty useless since the other dude could see your screen. So it was more about good, strategic positions and things like that.
>>339884819
Because Tits.
what makes a level design good?
>>339884819
people do know what a good game is but most consumers aren't interested enough in stuff like good game design to care. cod brings in so much money and it's mostly because of the people who want multiplayer. game companies invest so much money into advertising and not enough on making the product able to stand as a quality product for years. why bother making your game so jam packed with content when you could just make another sequel because your brand, despite being either flawed or repititve, sells like hot cakes? you can tell someone that your crappy games is god's gift to humanity and if you do it enough times they will at least try it. also people will always buy things that are low quality regardless like yeah you shouldn't eat that one thing but people don't give a shit. some companies are very manipulative of people who play games and they have a low opinion of their consumer base.
>>339884819
Apples and oranges there. Mgs5= open world. The world is the level.
Not really fair to compare that to a level from goldeneye.
Know what else is an underrated game?
Nightfire for gamecube.
So much fun.
>>339885183
yea its pretty fair actually. making an open world game with shitty missions requires no thought or effort
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QaAH-cv2ybo
You guys really need to watch this video.
>>339885290
this game was the fucking TITS. Back when i actually had friends. I remember that awesome snow map, with the skycar.
>>339884450
Because games now are either trying to be a playset inside a virtual sandbox or some sort of cinematic experience.
>points to a game that isn't that good at level design either
>and fucking sucks shit at controls and gameplay
Sigh.
>>339884450
it doesnt though, goldeneye had absolutely shit level design
>>339885462
>console fps
The fuck were you expecting?
>>339884450
God damn that was a comfy map. Sure the games mechanics and framrate are dated shit but the game had some damn good map design
>>339885293
>little thought or effort
Really? You have a game out there anon? It's so freaking easy right?
Level design from an open world approach versus missions are very different. Obviously the one that gives the developers more control over the playspace is going to be designed "better."
Would make more sense to compare, goldeneye to cod or something.
Level design is really fucking hard, that's why
>>339885627
Companies that fucking acknowledge FPS games suck shit on consoles and DON'T FUCKING BOTHER, that's what.
>>339884450
Who misses strafing their friend in circles with an AK, firing until one of you dies?
Good level design requires the devs to respect and trust the player instead of balancing levels around the most daft cunt that could possibly get their hands on the game.
>>339885290
>>339885385
I had Agent Underfire for GC. So many hours playing the multiplayer.
>>339886092
Licence to kill only way to play.
>>339884450
Games are no longer made by people who play games, they're made by greedy jews and suits instead.
>>339884450
> Surface
> goldeneye
Surface was interesting (from a design point of view) because it was an open wide open map when the rest of the game and genre was about corridor shooting and labyrinth maps. This was a mission of just wide space with the only features been slightly uneven terrain and small buildings with no 'path' what so ever.
Basically it's a bottled version of a 'open world' shooter.
>>339884979
Depends on the game. Big levels with different paths and vantage points allow different players to deal with enemies in multiple ways. Halo and Halo 2 are great examples of this kind of level design. You can take a gun and shoot a bunch of bad guys OR you can run them over with a vehicle OR you can Play coop with a friend and discuss tactics. Now let's compare this to a modern shooter. Modern singleplayer shooters are absolute trash. They're linear, boring and they made for apes. Seriously, an ape can playthose games. You don't have to think or change your playstyle to adapt to different situations. Just go and hold the "fire" button.
>>339884450
Because games today are made for "lol so nerdy" normalfag retards.
>>339884979
Depends what kind of game we're talking about.
A Mario level, for instance, would be about introducing new concepts and slowly increasing the platforming difficulty.
A Metroidvania should be subtly guiding the player as to where they should go, while still offering lots of sideroutes and places to explore.
A PvP game needs to make sure both teams are evenly matched.
And so on
>>339884450
nice rose tinted glasses. goldeneye has aged like milk
>>339886918
>le its aged post
We get it, you're underage. This thread was about level design however, not technical specs.
>>339884819
>Yhatzee talking about Painkiller's 'level design'
When I was younger I was thinking the same thing; the levels are damn cool.
I realized way later that he meant how they looked because it's just nothing but arena after arena of waves of bad guys.
I don't think many realize how important interesting level design is. It's kind of making me want to get into some Doom map editing just to see what I can do.
>>339886995
this includes the shit level design, especially
>>339887215
Like your dumbass would know anything about level design.
>>339886671
Goddamn that aim thing was fucking ass. No wonder TimeSplitters sold like shit and never got a new game
>>339884979
Too many things. Generally you want your level to be challenging, have good variety in the challenges it presents while also building them up slowly, encounter design which is memorable and allows for a decent variety of tactics/playstyles, layout complex enough to feel like you're exploring on your own while controlled enough for you to guide the player. It needs good pacing, good flow (backtracking should be quick and painless, or made interesting in some way), good presentation and reward repeated playthroughs with things like secrets or sequence breaking or what have you. But all of this depends on the game, some games benefit from having tightly designed corridors, some games like old school FPS work well with complex interconnected levels.
>>339884450
That level is atrocious
>>339887339
The wiggly aim? They changed that in Future Perfect.
You know, the Halo games actually all had quite good level design. It's a sham modern shooters are so linear or just barren open-worlds. Big but not too big is the answer.
>>339885290
>>339885385
Fucking Gondola map and the underwater Sea base with the water pit and the suspended platform with a weapon spawn on it
Fuck that game was so fun, remote controlled tank and heli gave me a raging boner
>>339886229
i remember i owned both as a kid and i was looking for one of them and no matter how many times i tried to tell my cousin i wasn't looking for agent under fire, i was looking for nightfire he'd just go "it's the same thing" like nigga no you're just retarded.
