>Twisted great Hammer associated with Smough, the last knight to remain at his post, guarding the ruined cathedral.
>the last knight to remain at his post
Wait so Ornstein wasn't real then?
>>339845815
He was an illusion made by Gwyndolin. Popular theory is that he defected with Nameless King (Gwyn's firstborn) to archdragon peak. This is why you can find his armor set in the same location as NK.
>>339845815
*it's a hologram*
>>339845815
Yeah and for a change, it's held together pretty solidly since you can't make Anor Londo dark without beating them first
Even killing Gwyndolin first doesn't make Anor Londo dark
Normally with direct sequels, shit gets retconned but that's the most solid, direct tie-in for a while
Ornstein went to seek out Dragon Peak, though I don't know how long after, it would've been, or when that place was built considering the fact that Nameless King was exilled before Dark Souls and the ancient dragon covenant was at the bottom of an arch-tree
Unless they made the fact that Dark Souls II's "dragons", which were man-made and not real at all
Who the fuck knows
>>339846320
> Nameless King is gwyn's firstborn
this still triggers me, Solaire's story was fit perfectly for that role and he still gets the fucking shaft in ds3
>>339846758
It did fit very well given the lore of DSI but as the lore has expanded and it's very likely that NK was the leader of the Warriors of Sunlight, Solaire fits in very nicely as one of NK's highest ranking lieutenants. His journey through DSI still makes sense as he was looking for NK and naturally would think going through Gwyn may be the way to do it.
Funny thing is that Smough wasn't even a knight in the first place, Miyazaki absolutely rape the lore with DaSIII.
>>339845815
>x was an illusion
>time is convoluted in lordran/lothric/DS2Land
i love the series but god damn it so much just doesn't make sense, like the 3 different firelinks in Dark Souls 3
>>339847470
since it says he's the last remaining knight i just assumed it was an anime-type bullshit story and he was promoted knight for valiantly protecting Anor Londo until the bitter end
>>339847586
>DS2Land
Drangleic, but in the end they're all Lordran with a different name because some other king decided to rename it.
>>339847470
it's his lore, he can do whatever the fuck he wants with it.
>>339847306
>NK's highest ranking lieutenants
Solaire most likely never met him. He was was just a strong-ass dude, not an official warrior of any faction. His gear says there was really nothing special about him, and all his adoration was one sided.
>>339848019
oh the george lucas, kojima, and anno philosophy
No? Ornstein left to find out about NK, so smough was left there
how retarded can u be lmao
>>339848019
Doesn't mean he didn't fuck it up, just like George Lucas fucked up Star Wars lore with the prequels.
>>339847470
He was a knight, he just wasn't one of Gwynn's four Knights.
>>339848256
No he was not a knight, that bit was clear enough, he was an executioner.
>>339848119
>His gear says there was really nothing special about him
and THAT'S what should have sealed the deal that he was the firstborn, he lost all his powers and was just a normal-ass no bullshit really fucking strong dude who wanted his own sun
but no instead we get "here's nameless king you guise it's a pretty sweet bossfight LOL WHO'S SOLAIRE NEVER HEARD OF HIM"
>tfw the Ornstein we fight in DaSI is just an illusion
>tfw the real Ornstein is the one we kill in DaSII
>>339846758
>solaire babbies still recovering
pottery
>Miyazaki rapes his own lore with DS3
The hack got exposed.
Now its time for Tanimura to shine. He could somewhat save Dark Souls 2 from Shibuya completely ruining it.
IT WAS ALL A DREAM
>>339848350
Yeah he wasnt accepted b/c of what he did to the dead bodies.(ate them)
>>339848395
Probably because everyone bitched at the solaire pandering in DS2
>>339848350
Couldn't he just be both? Executioner was his main job, knight isn't exactly a profession in these games, it's a passive thing. Every faggot with a suit of armor is a knight, at least in Dark Souls.
>>339848552
I dont think hes the real one at all. He just wears the armor and plus he used dark magic
>>339848395
Cute fanfiction and head canon, but Gwyn's nameless son was only disowned. He was still a fucking god, and the son of the head of the pantheon.
People already bitch to no end about carry over shit from DaS (sequel? what's a sequel XD). Last thing we need is DaS 2 levels of Warriors of Sunlight pandering.
>>339848752
>I dont think hes the real one at all
Who would he be then? Another illusion? In that case casted by whom?
Ornstein left to the archdragon peak to fight his mentor.
so we can assume that smough became a knight, then got devoured by not-phalanx-or-gwyndolyn.
>>339848752
I think you can safely say that Old Dragonhunter really was just one Old Dragonhunter and nothing more.
>But how did he get the Leo Ring?
How did the illusion of Ornstein get the Leo Ring?
How many of those things even exist?
>>339848876
>so we can assume that smough became a knight, then got devoured by not-phalanx-or-gwyndolyn
If DaSI events are canon then Smough was defeated by the chosen undead.
>>339848581
>new souls setting
>Blame! is the inspiration
>expanded bb combat mechanics
>>339847470
This is why I treat DS2 and DS3 as fanfiction.
>>339848838
He would be just a random knight. Or he is an an illusion casted by the covanat leader to test your strength.
>>339849129
Cyber Souls needs to happen.
>>339847470
then he became a knight by doing the noble act of protecting Anor Londo, thus his shit in ds3 says he's a knight
does that fill your holes?
>>339848996
Its a shit excuse but you can say they're different time lines
>>339846320
I'm almost cool with this but Illusion Orenstien shows too much emotion for me. When Smough is killed, Orenstien laments him for a second and he has a slightly dramatic death where he reaches for the sky. I feel like, as an illusion, he shouldn't have such a deep level of emotion.
Anyway, I believe that by "last knight" it was really meant as one of the last knights. I know that's a stretch and it doesn't explain why Orenstien's armor is way out at Archdragon's Peak but I feel like saying the DS1 Orenstien is just an illusion is even lazier.
>>339848996
it was confirmed in das 1 by solaire that the world is twisted, and re-confirmed in 3 that space isnt what it seems either.
that explains why lothric sits ontop of a mountain, with bridges broken off at the base.
Smough got knighted between games you fagets. They even say he died fighting Aldritch.
>>339849352
DS1 was first in the timeline though. So smough would have already died
Miyazaki can do whatever he want with his endless timeline/possibility excuse.
Smough survived the events of DS1 in the reality of DS3 because in that DS1 cycle he survived. It's that simple.
He could pull that shit over and over again for yet another 3 new Dark Souls games.
>>339849352
>They even say he died fighting Aldritch.
yeah no i deaded that fucker more times than i can count so you better post some solid sauce to back up that shit or fuck off
>>339849352
>They even say he died fighting Aldritch.
when
>>339849498
This is true but that its a lame way to explain the lore
timeline of events:
>chosen undead fights ornstein and smough
>meets gwynevere
>killing gwyndolin in what is now a "but what if this happened? as Gwyndolin is now shown to have survived" scenario, reveals that anor londor and the various ongoings are covered in gwyndolins illusions
>ornstein and smough are likely to have both been illusions, or at least ornstein
>anor londo eventually moves over to the transitory lands surrounding lothric as the flame dies out by Lothric's refusal to link it, and the flames area diminishes, drawing the lords of cinders areas together
>the firekeeper in dark souls 3 rings the bell, awakening the lords of cinder and the ashen ones who failed to become "lords of cinders"
>pontiff sulyvahn locks the sickly gwyndolin in the cathedral with the knowledge that eventually the maneater will rise again, preparing him to be devoured
>he also locks yorshka away
>you get to anor londo
>aldrich got there before you
>if smough wasn't an illusion in dark souls 1, his armour was presumably absorbed by aldrich (there are also various theories that smough is aldrich, but that's another story)
>if smough was alive, it's likely that he was eaten by aldrich, hence his armour being given after aldrich's demise
>>339849352
>Smough got Knighted between games
By fucking who? Also that would've retcon almost entirely Anor londo from DaS1.
>>339848552
I still believe that DS1 Oreo was the real one and DS2 Oreo was resurrected from the Abyss. DS2 had a strong theme of the Abyss gaining power and taking over others, like that one Paladin boss and the fact that the final boss is literally a piece of Manus, which had been controlling EVERYTHING since the beginning of the game in DS2.
I don't know what to say about Oreo's armor showing up on Mt. Drago-Castle but calling DS1 Oreo an illusion doesn't seem right. There's gotta be something more here.
>>339849498
>different timelines
i am willing to accept
>time is convoluted :^)
for better or for worse but if you just count the Gwyndolin fight as non-canon then there's no real inconsistency timeline wise there
Guys what ifAldrich was the chosen undead in his own timeline? It would fit his story very well.
>>339849612
This is why i am not liking the lore of DS3.
It has plenty of interesting parts but was there really a new to go that far out of the window?
DS2 did what it did just fine.
>Chosen Undead kills Chaos Flame
>Flame can't produce demons anymore but is still able in its weaken state to corrupt people
>Ivory King story happens
That stuff is perfectly fine. There is no retcon or AU bullshit. Thats how it should be.
>>339849672
Gwyndolin was clearly still there.
Great hammer from the soul of executioner Smough, who guards the cathedral in the forsaken city of Anor Londo. Smough loved his work, and ground the bones of his victims into his own feed, ruining his hopes of being ranked with the Four Knights.
>>339849352
Ignoring the fact that he dies in DS1, all the gods left Lordran when the zombie curse completely fucked up the real-estate market. Gwyn stayed behind because he's a senile old man and you're sure as fuck not convincing me that he knighted fucking anyone.
>>339849854
After Dark Souls 1 I feel like the lore just went downhill. Like in DS2 it was putting things like Havels armor in the game and saying something like "Is it the place where the knights from or was it the name of the knight". I havent played any of DS2 DLCs either so I dont know if its good or not.
Can someone explain to me why the Nameless King is hollow? Also some boss battles in the game doens't make any sense? Like why would Yhorm want to fight you if you're going to save the world and he's presumably a good guy?
>>339850016
>
>>339849930
Oh ok, I forgot about fagboy. Still, Smough died and I refuse to believe that he survived. I'm more willing to believe that Gwyndolin survived or that that fight was an illusion.
>>339849672
>Also that would've retcon almost entirely Anor londo from DaS1
Well geographically Anor Londo was already retconned to hell and back, despite the cathedral it doesn't resemble DaS1 Anor Londo at all.
>>339849930
But then that would imply that either O&S were both illusions or that you got the fire vessel from another source and you never went to Anor Londo in first place.
>>339850262
Maybe they don't believe that linking the fire is the right path? The obviously meant to link the fire originally but they've since changed their minds, which might be a big reason why Lothric went to shit.
I don't know though, I haven't beaten the game yet. I gotta say that Yhorm was disappointingly easy although I knew what was going on right away since I played Demon's Souls first.
>>339845815
>>339846320
>>339846427
In the canon Ornstein died first you fucking autists
>>339850016
Well I dont think it puts a clear timeline on when they left or when Gwyn became hollowed. But he could have knighted Smough befor he was becoming hollow or he could have when he slowly was turnig hollow so his judgement was clouded so he looked past Smoughs fucked up habbits (eating the bones of dead people)
>>339846758
>>339847306
>>339848119
>>339848395
solaire is a hollow who is losing his mind and stares at the sun all day and obsesses about it. and he even puts a sunlight maggot on his head if you dont kill them because hes just going hollow and just obsesses about bright things. he was probably a warrior of sunlight before going hollow and had sunlight medals before going to lordran and sunlight medals have a sun on them and are golden so he likes shiny stuff and the sun.
>>339850262
Nameless king i'm assuming was just protecting his home
Yhorm went crazy/hollow/whatever when he became a lord of cinder
>>339850552
Yhorm linked the fire already, in fact I'm pretty sure all the other lords of cinder (with the exception of Lothric) linked the fire at some point, Ludleth flat out said he linked the fire a long time ago.
>People still can't accept that Smough is Aldrich
>>339850715
>Nameless king i'm assuming was just protecting his home
Nah he was hollow, look at his face. He's basically a skeleton now.
>>339850698
Hes an undead. Hollow would be like a zombie. Its like HIV and AIDS
>>339850423
That led to another question: How can be sure that the real londo is the one from DaS3 and not the one from DaS1 or vice versa?
>>339850856
Well because there's Gwyndolin, he never left Anor Londo, and he appears in both versions.
>>339850856
Well that depends on how you structure the timeline. I think that DS1s Anor Londo it the real one and DS3 they might have tried to rebuild it so that explains why it would look different
>DS1
>smough is considered a degenerate cannibal
>serpant wont even give you a single soul if you feed him smoughs soul.
>hes the royal executioner, not a knight.
>DS3
>smough wuz such brave, respectable knight!!!1!
what the fuck happened?
>>339850796
Tell me more
>>339845815
>guarding the ***ruined*** cathedral
Anor Londo cathedral wasn't ruined in dark souls 1. I don't think that description is referring to the first game.
>>339850719
I still eager to hear a theory on how the Abyss watchers became a Lord of cinder being all different individuals.
>>339848927
I still want to think that "Dragonslayer" is nothing more than a title, And the telltale ranking sign of a Dragonslayer is the Bright Red Tassel they have on their helmets.
>>339851032
The story changes when its told many times by many different people
>>339850719
>all the other lords of cinder (with the exception of Lothric) linked the fire at some point,
gonna make a little correction here for ya buddy
Lothric and Lorian linked the fire against their will, it's stated that they tried running off to watch the fire fade, so you'd think they never linked it. But you wouldn't become a lord of cinder unless you actually fueled the flame.
so yeah they did link the fire, just not on purpose
>>339850171
Because Havel knights are everywhere.
Some of the Knights travelled around, most likely died, and some other dude found the gear. That stuff being in 2 doesn't break any canon.
>>339849352
>Implying he didnt have a body eating contest with aldrich and got eaten as he lost
>>339850614
This. The only way to get smough's hammer in the first game is to kill smough last making him the last knight at his post.
>>339849157
Ornstein in 2 was obviously the real one, and he was at the Tower of Flame because that's where the Anor Londo gods originally fled to and he was trying to find the Nameless King through Gwynevere. But they got fucked up eventually, and in 2 he's all emo from hopelessness.
>>339850949
>>339851029
Then that only says that choosen undead actually killed the fatso.
>>339851206
I wasnt saying it broke the lore. I just felt like the shit like that was made for the fanboys
>>339851032
ever read a story where a character wants to become x, but he's not worthy so he just follows around a bunch of legit x's, maybe helps them carry weapons or some shit
then when a big battle breaks out and every single real x is dead, the character has to step up and act like one of them, thus in spirit becoming an x?
yes it's retarded but so is Miyazaki
>>339846758
I thought it just made him better with the item descriptions
>>339848783
But DS3 panders even harder than DS2.
>>339850826
Hollowing just seems to be the fate of most people, It happened to his father.
>>339845815
Chosen undead never existed in the timeline that lothric and the surrounding lands exist in
Chosen undead wasn't around to kill ornstein, so ornstein left to pursue NK leaving smough to guard the "ruined cathedral" (it wasn't in ruins when dark souls took place, meaning a lot of time passed since that time and the time of ornstein's departure)
Chosen undead wasn't around to kill gwyndolin
Chosen undead wasn't around to go back in time and kill artorias and kill manus, meaning no one ever recovered the cleansing greatshield from the chasm of the abyss, hence why the undead legion spurn shield users, since they don't know artorias ever used a shield. Artorias was also never credited with the chosen undead's heroism, passing into history as the wolf knight who fell to the abyss, instead of the abysswalker who saved oolacile.
Chosen undead was never around to learn from quelana, and thus in this timeline quelana "never took another human pupil after salaman"
when you look at all these "plot holes" and "contradictions" together, it paints a picture of a divergent timeline where the events of DaS1 never took place.
>>339850614
>getting this angry over nothing
>calling others autists
>>339851329
Didnt think of it that way. Maybe he used dark magic b/c its more powerful since there wasnt any dragons anymore.
>>339851383
I knew they put it in for the fans, but it's more fun to look at it like "oh shit these guys are everywhere".
>>339851156
I think it's as simple as
>Ornstein is Dragonslayer, leader of his knights
>all dragonslayers wear similar armour
>all those that use spears wear ornstein's armour
>all those that use axes and shields wear the das3 boss' armour
>all those that use X weapon wear X armour
>this makes them easily identifiable
So das2's boss is just one of the dragonslayers who happened to use a spear.
>>339851315
But the cathedral wasnt RUINED as the description states, Anor Londo was in tippy top condition
>>339845815
>remained at his post
Sure, that hammer's fucking heavy. He was still stuck there while others were miles away.
>>339851541
Alright but how the fuck does the pilgrims and the dragon people from Archdragon peak connect? Because they look way too similar to NOT be connected in some way.
>>339848395
The thing that makes Solaire cool is that he's just a normal fucking undead kicking ass for what he believes in. He's not a god-child. He doesn't have any magical chosen equipment. He's just a fucking dude.
That's the point.
Word of god said your headcannon is false. Give up on being such a faggot. You can still enjoy the character.
>>339851149
The Abyss Watchers all share one soul, the soul of the blood of the wolf.
>>339849143
>muh headcannon
>>339847470
>One of the last big figures to defend Anor Londo
>As time passes people forget the meaningless distinctions and that there were only Four Knights of Gwynn, assuming Smough was one of them
Does this calm your autism ?
>>339851032
>smough is considered a degenerate cannibal
What's wrong with eating people?
>>339851174
They never linked. Lothric has power for it, but he refused.
Just read description of his ashes and soul. He was bred as LoC, but he abandoned this destiny (until Ashen One chopped his head).
I still think that his situation is pretty strange. In previous games any random undead could be "chosen". In DS2 you even could grind 1kk of souls instead of collecting 4 great souls. In DS3 Lothric was directly created as Chosen and can`t be replaced by NK for example (I don`t think that soul of Gwyn`s Firstborn is weaker than soul of little cursed fuccboi).
>>339851174
No, they never linked the fire, but they were raised to be the next ones to do it, so they have enough power and are counted as lords.
>>339851852
And that's why they were killing each other, it was a highlander sort of situation! Duh, I'm dense.
>>339851149
I have a theory, when you defeat the Abyss Watchers you get the Soul of the Blood of the Wolf, which makes me think it was actually the Old Wolf of Farron who linked the fire, not the watchers, and when the wolf transferred his blood to them he somehow also transferred the lord of cinder status to them.
>>339851907
He could get sick....
>>339851541
>the only way DS3 makes sense is if DS1 doesn't fucking exist
deepest lore
>>339849143
Go to deviantart or wherever else you faggots come up with your headcanons
>>339852007
No, they were killing each other because of Abyss's maddness that's a canonical fact.
Someone please explain the 3 firelinks to me without using timetravel logic, deep modernistic bullshit or >TIME IN LOTHRIC IS CONVOLUTED
please, i beg of you
>>339852080
DS1 does exist, just not the exploits of the Chosen Undead.
>>339852257
So a seperate timeline?
>>339852257
>DS1 does exist, just not the content of the game
>>339852254
Lothric's literally called "The Transitory Lands".
What more do I gotta do for you, senpai?
>>339852254
>Someone please explain the 3 firelinks to me
Bad level design for the sake of muh PvP zones
Question: how do people actually become undead? Is it because of the dark sign? Does it simply appear on some people? Or do people have to be branded with it to become undead (and thus why some people can seemingly choose to become undead). Or do the undead get branded, and then shipped to the asylum?
Just how strong is the curse of firelink shrine i wonder?
>The location never changes
>There's always the very same handmaiden
>There's always a firekeeper
>There's always an ashen oneThere's always a light house
>>339852254
Oceiros kept a little pocket dimension in his private chamber for shits and giggles
>>339852254
>3 firelinks
What's the third?
>>339852347
No, the content is there. All the same characters, places, etc. exist. Just not the player character.
>>339852318
Basically. Doesn't even have to be separate. Boot up Dark Souls 1 and die at the Asylum and then quit the game. There you go. That's what's cannon Dark Souls 3.
>>339852448
Firelink, Kiln, and Untended Graves
>>339852440
My sides are literally in orbit
>>339852487
>>339852257
>>339851541
>>339852252
That's what I thought but ultimately they become "one" I think that in their madness they tried to unify.
>>339851576
Drangleic was swimming in dark, so he probably turned to it at his lowest point before getting the crap beaten out of him and moving on.
>>339852529
The Kiln is not firelink shrine, it's the Kiln. When you look around you see the world all fucked up, which implies it does not exist in a single timeline.
>>339852440
Jokes aside, I`m pretty shure, that Oceiros really did something with destiny/timeline/whatever.
>>339852487
>In the PCs eyes they accomplished greatness
>In reality the PC wasnt seen as anything special, Nothing more than the passing wind.You were only one of many
>>339852659
Okay, but it looks like firelink shrine
I guess Untended Graves isn't firelink either because it looks like it but has a different name
>>339852659
And yet the shrine is untouched, The interiour is damaged but far from the amount that the rest of the world is there.
>>339851541
I guess I could buy it.
>>339848660
I never played DS2 because I heard it was cancer. What kind of pandering did it have?
>>339852404
So if you are human you were born form the 5th lesser soul (humanit). This right off the bat makes it so you can get the dark sign and when its used (everytime you die) you slowly become hollow. Those who werent affected first were scared so they locked up the ones who already hollow/ing. But the fire will fade so everyone is fucked.
>>339852440
Well he needs a place to lose Ocelotte in.
>>339852629
if you could transfer your soul into countless bodies, and were able to kill them with no consequence cause you could just move the soul to another one
why wouldn't you just have fun murdering clones of yourself?
>>339852606
>>339851826
>Someone proposes a theory that actually works and explains everything
>Sh-shut you fag
Great rebuttal. Kill yourself.
>>339852767
I'm pretty sure the Utended Graves shrine if from an alternate line where the Age of Darkness happened. Hell, isn't it implied that the Champion was the chosen ashen but woke up too late to complete the linking of the fire?
>>339852767
No you idiot, Untended Graves and the Firelink Shrine are both different, they're the same but in different timelines. Kiln is the almagamation of all timelines, so as far as we know it's both the Untented Graves and Firelink Shrine, and possibly some other versions of the same firelink. It's not a real firelink in the proper sense as it does not exist in a single timeline.
>>339852673
See it's a complex situation with Ocerious, It's a master logan situation, In the end he gained ultimate knowledge and went mad, But what did they learn to make them mad?
What could they accomplish if they learned to control it?
>>339852974
For fucks sake that load if bs doesn't even worths the time of making a rebuttal is just a load of crap
>>339852673
And where does Ludleth fall into this, he is clearly related to the timeline of this
>>339852404
From my understanding the Darksign just appears on random people, either before or after they die.
Because Hollowing inevitably follows from being Undead, they ship out people with the sign to the Undead Asylum.
Regarding why people "choose" to become undead, I tried to find dialogue of such but couldn't. I think it's the impression you get from people accepting their fate and using undeath to do stuff like wander around and gain knowledge as Logan did.
>>339852440
He sent his kids in there as a practice run for the real linking of the fire. Eventually, all the lightbulbs in the underground cavern housing it burnt out after he became a testicle-dragon.
>>339853184
>W-what a load of BS!
>I don't even need to qualify it with my time!
Other people in the thread seem to disagree with you.
Come up with a better explanation for all of the contradictions other than hack writers, anon.
>>339852659
>timeline
see that's where you lose everyone who's reading your post cause that's fucking retarded
>>339852974
seriously stop posting, timeline theories are the stupidest shit ever, even IT WAS A DREAM holds more ground that that garbage
>>339853014
The Untented Graves is the firelink shrine swallowed by the abyss averted by the linking of fire, but who linked the fire was Ludleth, he literally says that after you visit Untented Graves for the first time.
>>339852254
>1 exists at the first flame.
>Way above that was another firelink built as a replica of the first. This is firelink shrine in das1 and untended graves in das 3.
>Lothric refuses to light the flame, the flame goes dark.
>Gundyr wakes up after the flame goes dark, is too late, decides to test undead (doesn't realise the flame hasn't gone completely out, loses hope because the sky is dark).
>Ludleth, nobody special (and certainly not a lord of cinder (which is a name given to anybody with a powerful enough soul to contribute to the first flame, no special act is necessary to claim this title)) decides that any undead seeing the dark sky will lose hope, like Gundyr.
>Ludleth somehow crafts a fake firelink (including fake gundyr, whose power is made from the pus of man experiments), far away from the real thing, with an illusionary bright sky to encourage people to light the first flame.
>Believes himself to be noble and claims himself as a lord of cinder for doing this act, despite his soul not being strong enough- only 4 immense souls are necessary to link the first flame.
And the most bullshit bit
>literally physically swaps positions of the untended graves and his fake firelink so that his fake firelink is outside the anor londo walls and untended graves are within, protected by oceiros- this means his fake firelink is directly above the kiln of the first flame and thus the bonfire there- which did not swap positions, only everything surrounding the bonfire- correctly sends people to the kiln
That's what I think, anyway. I know it doesn't make perfect sense, but it explains why the wall and the undead settlement and such all have the illusionary sky, because after making that sky he then swapped the firelinks round. Maybe the swapping firelinks bit is bullshit but the rest makes sense.
>>339853094
he learned how Dark Souls lore actually works
>>339853094
I`m pretty shure that Oceiros wasn`t the most mentally stable person even before he discovered archives.
All his decisions were fucking awful.
>>339853296
>see that's where you lose everyone who's reading your post cause that's fucking retarded
But that's precisely what is it, it's the same as asking someone to explain to you what the color blue is without showing you anything blue. Why even bother trying to learn the lore then if you can't accept simple facts?
>>339852659
>The Kiln is not firelink shrine
>bonfire is called "Flameless Shrine"
>>339853283
>He sent his kids in there as a practice run for the real linking of the fire
>>339853014
>Gundyr, or the Belated Champion, was bested by an unknown warrior. He then became sheath to a coiled sword in the hopes that someday, the first flame would be linked once more.
>After talking to the Alternate Shrine Handmaiden return to Firelink Shrine and when you talk to her again she will ponderingly say "Wait, haven't I met you before?" before continuing with her regular dialog.
>Messages in Untended Graves show up in Firelink Shrine
I think it's time fuckery again and that you, as the Ashen One, are the "unknown warrior" that bested Gundyr. And then the past you fights the future him at the start of the game.
>>339853445
He himself was probably incredibly stupid and weak, But he learned SOMETHING that made him mad and incredibly powerful.
>>339853014
it's just the same bullshit from AotA again, just this time the locations don't even make any sense
>>339852921
>>339848395
Even after all those years, you guys keep saying muh Solaire, even when Mihacksaky said it was supposed to be Andrei, you're dense as fuck
>>339853698
Crystal magic? Logan went to shit after he learned it, same situation with Oceiros. I don`t know why this kind of magic so special. Even hexers less crazy.
>>339853296
Miyazaki literally, LITERALLY, said in an interview that if you follow Solaire questline he'll defeat Gwyn and link the fire in his own timeline.
>>339849285
>does that fill your holes?
n-naughty...!
>>339853993
Maybe because when the original owner uses it it had the power of Curse? Something they never perfected.
>>339853296
>If I ignore this part of the game's canon story and also shut out any of the head writer's comments on it, I'm right! Timeline theories are stupid!
>>339851907
Have you heard of Jeffey Dahmer?
>>339852053
There's literally nothing wrong with eating people
what the fuck even are the unkindled? maybe i just didn't look hard enough but all i got out of it was the few words in the opening
The "unkindled" are the ressurected ashes of undead who failed to link the fire
which doesn't really make any sense to begin with cause how can your ashes materialize back into human form?
it seems pretty obvious that we're not a normal human, cause we get embered into a cinder form instead of using humanity to become human again
please explain
>>339853993
>When ocelot learns to bring his camo index up to 100%
![]LOYDS INTENSIFIES].png](https://i.imgur.com/pf8KXRE.png "]LOYDS INTENSIFIES].png")
>>339854024
well, post the source u dingus
oh boy i can't wait for another video of VattiShitya :^)
>>339853993
I always assumed that Logan just went hollow. Seath's archives contained everything anybody could hope to discover about sorcery, which meant his sole motivation was gone and his mind just went kaput. I figured the crystal stuff was just incidental.
>>339854570
>What is the Design Works Interview
Spoon-feeding ignorant faggots like you is something we shouldn't have to stoop to.
>>339854634
Miyazaki said he wanted logan to display a feeling of "I've figured out the answer to everything" kinda thing, Reason he's nude is because that's the only way he could think to portray that kinda feeling.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BwjUe4B_g7M
Anyone who hasn´t seen this video has no right to post in lore threads. Now fuck off to reddit with your shitty theories
>>339853283
>Gundyr is acually Ocelotte
>>339854838
Straight from Miyazaki's mouth, nudist beaches are the gateway to understanding.
>>339854853
fuck off shill i'm downvoting your video just for that post alone
>>339854634
Well, going hollow means losing all hope. But I don't think it's just that, I think it means losing sight of your objective.
Like, ghosts fade away once they have no regrets, I think it's that kind of thing.
If you set your sights on sorcery knowledge, you can keep going until you attain that, but once you do, you hollow out. Oceiros and Logan both did this. The chosen undead and ashen ones both hollow out quickly after the dark endings, I reckon. Every single NPC- with the sole exception of the one that becomes a fire keeper- hollows out after they have achieved what they aim to achieve.
>>339854518
You won't become a Knight by shitposting on Oolacilean scrollwriting boards, Smough.
>>339855230
Eating people doesn't make you a bad person. Being a bad person makes you a bad person.
>>339855091
>Solaire is firstborn! baby gets blown the fuck out
>d-downvoted
>>339854853
Oh, that's the fag that got blown the fuck out in his 'TRUTHER' dark souls video about demons, right?
Dude should stick to just reading item descriptions and putting them in order rather than speculating so hard that he makes Vaati look reasonable. It's laughable that he's trying to brand his whole channel about being for the 'real lore enthusiasts' and 'rediscovering the TRUTH' while he constantly makes headcannon-tier speculation.
>>339854853
>1 hour and 25 minutes video
I don't even know what the video is about but I would like you to fuck off.
>>339855441
>Post a video about timelines
>The response just says he thinks you're shilling because you are
>Your response insists that he's mad because of the video insisting Solaire isn't the Firstborn, which was never mentioned in the comment itself.
That jump in logic is literally the sort of thought process the creator of those videos has.
Fuck off, shill.
>>339855683
It's literally 1 hour and a half of a dude citing item descriptions to put them in a timeline order, too.
Any faggot who played the game already knows all that shit.
>>339846758
Seemed more likely to me that Andre was originally Gwyn's firstborn but was obviously written out of the role in DS3.
>>339846758
>>339847306
>>339848119
>>339848395
Didnt miyazaki say himself that solaire never was the gwyn's firstborn?
Just because he fucking loved the sun doesnt mean he had any connection to gwyn or his firstborn.Solaire is shit
>>339854853
You posted this shit in the last Dark Souls thread I was in.
Kill yourself shill
>>339846758
As far as I'm aware about the story it was Andre, the blacksmith, who was supposed to be the firstborn at first, but then they scrapped that idea, probably to leave firstborn story to another game.
>>339854528
The unkindled are those that tried and failed to link the flame. Think if you were to attempt it, but weren't powerful enough and the remains of the flame just consumed you.
Anyone killed by the Soul of Cinder also falls into this category, notice how it's dragging bodies away from the flame in the intro.
Ludleth was also pretty close to becoming one, he was the last to link the fire and it took so much power that his lower body was consumed entirely.
>>339853987
>>339855836
>andre
so why DOES he respawn after you kill him in DS3?this is some illusion/timeline/CONVOLUTED shit isn't it
>>339855858
Your opinion isabsolutely respectable and I agree wholeheartedly, my African compatriot
DaSIII DLC should explain a lot of things related to the lore, Souls DLC pretty much always focus more on the lore.
>>339856061
Frankly, what needs to be explained is why other undead NPCs _don't_.
>>339850171
The DLCs are actually pretty good. Just dont do the "co-op" areas because they are corridors with a million enemies and gank squads.
Other than that it seems like they learned a lot from making das2 and actually got some level design and decent enemy placement.
What happens if you kill the fire keeper? She's begging me to kill her after I gave her the eyes.
>>339846758
Solaire was an idiot, and comic relief.
>>339856494Jack shit, but you get the eyes back.
>>339851541
Okay, if it's gotten to the point where the only way to explain this games story is to assume the previous games didn't happen I think we need to agree that DS3 has the absolute worst lore of the bunch.
To say nothing of the blatant DLC bait like the Angels, Profaned Flame, Deep and Ocelotte.
>>339856727
Oh, the other games' story happened, just none of the stuff with the Chosen Undead.
>>339852257
Why does the final boss in das3 use moves from the chosen undead then? He switches mode between all the different chosen undeads that have linked the flame before, right?
His final mode is gwyn outright, which the chosen undead defeats and takes his place.
Is he the real asshole of the series?
>>339854853
There's a lot of shit that he says that makes no sense, just in the first five minutes he takes the dragons as the one and only beings on the planet, but ignores that things like hollows, the serpents, and the gaping dragon's race also already existed.
>>339852410
You can make the astraea wannabe cleric into a fully functional firekeeper as well, making you have two.
>minmaxing armor pieces to roll with smoughs hammer
Absolutely fucking disgusting, you get 64 vitality like a man if you wanna medium roll with smoughs hammer and his full armor or you dont use it at all
fucking new age souls players I swear to god there's no faggier tryharder group of people on the planet
>>339856868
the trick is to roll into him, not away from him
you're welcome
>>339856129Thank you, my fellow brethren of dark decent
>>339856608
Wait, so you can get them back, give them to her again, and kill her again in an endless loop?
>>339856815
But that's fucking stupid
>>339853654
>>339852767
Untended Graves take place in a distant period of time where the Flame died out and Gundyr rose up too late to link it, thus lying down and resting at the center of the cemetary without any purpose left surrounded by those dim candles.
At some point during that age of darkness an older Ashen One traveled arrived, finding and defeating the "real" him and taking his soul, then returning back to the future time it came from.
At some point during that it's safe to assume that Gundyr went hollow/became corrupted, still at the cemetary, while someone else rekindled the Flame.
THEN a young (starting level) Ashen One arrived there and found his hollow corrupted shell, easily defeating him (which explains why the boss fights gives NO soul: the older version of the MC had already taken it).
>>339856828
You seem to be confusing "Lords of Cinder" with the Chosen Undead.
>>339855131
This. Going hollow means losing sight of one's purpose in life thus becoming empty and void.
This is why Siegmeyer goes hollow in Ash Lake if you save him too many times - he realizes he's no hero and loses all desire to keep going.
Same with Logan, who becomes so entranced in studying the books that he loses all sense of time and self, thus going hollow.
Nothing is known about Oceiros though.
>>339858065
Father of the year was obsessed with Moonlight, but can`t find it.
>>339858065
actually, Logan isn't hollow when you find him. Just crazy, miyazaki said it himself
>retcon Gwyndolin's death
>he dies horribly off-screen anyway
>his corpse is used as a puppet body by sludge man
on top of having the shittiest family ever, being born half-tentacle monster and raised as a girl. Is Gwyndolin the most misserable character in Dark Souls?
>>339857836
That doesn't make it any less stupid
>>339858065
Oceiros only went crazy because he's meant to be a glorified stand in for Seath because Miyazaki just has to repeat himself.
>>339851541
>Chosen undead wasn't around to go back in time and kill artorias and kill manus, meaning no one ever recovered the cleansing greatshield from the chasm of the abyss, hence why the undead legion spurn shield users, since they don't know artorias ever used a shield. Artorias was also never credited with the chosen undead's heroism, passing into history as the wolf knight who fell to the abyss, instead of the abysswalker who saved oolacile.
http://darksouls3.wiki.fextralife.com/Wolf+Knight's+Greatshield
nigga they knew about the shield
>>339853296
Except timeline theories are all valid because that's how the soapstone is presented in dark souls 1. Various heroes from different times and universes connecting with each other briefly in a land where time is convoluted.
>>339851607
I will never not be mad about the lack of a plume in this game
>>339858065
Oceiros becomes maddeningly obsessed with the moonlight, turns himself into a dragon, wants to become seath.Finds the moonlight greatsword, hollows. Doesn't even use it he hollows so quickly. Becomes craftable from his soul.
>>339858357
>>retcon Gwyndolin's death
Optional bosses weren't confirmed dead in the first place.
>>339858357
>having the shittiest family ever
Ate least daddy raised him as grill, not a firewood.
>>339857684
>(which explains why the boss fights gives NO soul: the older version of the MC had already taken it).
>>339858392
But it doesn't say anywhere in that description that anybody knew about it at all, except possibly the wolf.
The great irony of the combat style of the undead legion is that it's absolutely nothing like the combat style of artorias in his prime, they literally just did not realise his left arm was broken at the time and they created their fighting style around that, without ever knowing.
>>339845815
>Wait so Ornstein wasn't real then?
Where were you for the past two months?
>>339858392
It doesn't say that shit anywhere on the shield.
Furthermore, the shield is completely different than the way it appeared in DS1.
>>339851831
The serpent people are trying to turn into dragons but somehow failed (serpents are imperfect dragons). The pilgrims are turning into the butterflies which are rather similar to the drakes (descendants of dragons). So I'd say that the dark sigil and hollowing makes some people tree like and some people dragon like because reasons.
>>339858704
hiding from spoilers like that obviously.
>>339858829
100% wrong
>>339846758
Solaire is a maniac
Nameless King is based.
Story fits perfectly
>Nameless King is based God of war
>Finds out the jewish serpents plan
>Decides to join the dragonbros against his father, who is being jewed
>Gets cast out
You have to be a filty shitter to complain about the ONLY tight lore piece of Dark Souls 3
>Game goes with the "We wont spoon feed you the lore. You will have to read descriptions, pay careful attention to your surroundings, and put the pieces together
Fuck it all up with
-Translation errors
-Not enough time to put everything in
-Putting enemies and items in random places because "video game" and not because "lore"
-Retconning
-Not actually continuing the story
-Forgetting about past games
Its funny that people still give a shit about this broken garbage lore
>>339845815
No Ornstein fled Anor Londo with Gwynevere to Heide's Tower of Flame
You fight him there in DaS2
>>339847470
Yes, exactly, and soulsfags will defend it.
Dark Souls 3 has RAPED Dark Souls lore.
DaS 2 was shitty but at least it was original.
3 rapes the lore completely
>>339856250
well, that's not right either. Ludleth respawns if you kill him,. with unique dialogue to boot for one talk.
>>339858970
That's honestly why Bloodborne is my all time favourite Souls game and why I wish Dark Souls 1 wasnt rushed and incomplete
>das1's chosen undead is non-canon fags
>das2 apologists
well we had a nice thread for as long as it lasted
So is poise off intentionally? Because it doesn't seem to be the case with it being a stat and a ring that literally does nothing other than giving you poise.
BB should have been dark souls 2.
>>339858460
Shut the fuck up that was just to casually explain multiplayer
Now it's the only explanation that's feasible, uhhhh it naturally doesnt make sense duh!
>>339858357
Oh come on, being half tentacle monster would be awesome. Being a trap would be awesome too.
>>339859420
Just ignore them.
Ds2 can be easily ignored as it takes place in an entirely different world.
Ds1 exists and is continued with DS3. I'm not even sure what people mean when talking about breaking the lore, I don't remember any major problem with what DS3 showed.
>>339852891
I played it and didn't see the solaire pandering so I dunno
>>339848783
>He was still a fucking god
Self proclaimed gods. Chosen Undead wrecks gods quite well in DaS1.
reminder you could kill Sen just because he wasn't using his amor
>>339858970
Yup, the lore in this game is fuckin' stupid
I love Dark Souls, but the lore is not it's strong suit. There's almost never a concrete resolution to anything because all these fucking timelines and locations are all mashed together cuz TIME IS CONVOLUTED LOL and le fanservice
It's sad because BB shows that it was possible to create a coherent story out of these games
>>339860150
>>339859289
Now lets just hope that Sony doesn't pay them to make Bloodborne 2
>>339858718
>It doesn't say that shit anywhere on the shield.
from the item description
>Greatshield of a knight tainted by the dark of the Abyss, and master of the wolf's blood of Farron.
> and master of the wolf's blood of Farron.
who the fuck else could they think it was if not the wolf knight?
>>339851634
>Anor Londo was in tippy top condition
go shoot gwynevere with an arrow and see its real condition
>>339860124
>Sen
if you're implying what i think you're implying then you need to kill yourself immediately
>>339860259
Well m8, I've got bad news for you.
Dark Souls 3 is just a "turning poing for the franchise"
Dark Souls is the new COD. There will be a Dark Souls 4
>>339860683
Dark Souls is already fucked. After DS3 they can't make the lore worse.
My point was leaving Bloodborne alone.
>>339860683
And there's nothing wrong with that. I never cared about the autistic lore shit and gameplay is fine with me
>>339860865
there will be a Bloodborne 2
>>339860575
Why? The firstborn being Sen makes a lot of sense.
>snake people
>firstborns statue is in the undead parish just before sens fortress
>the fortress was a trial by the gods for undead passage to their land
>the god of war would have had his own fortress
>absolutely nothing is known about Sen aside from his name
>>339860427
Yes, and it doesn't say in any way that the abyss watchers knew about that shield. So you know about it and the wolf does, what's your point?
>>339861985
Isn't the wolf where the AW got their blood from? It seems a bit weird for it to have this sheild (the sword as well) that none of the AW's would know about.
>>339861870
>absolutely nothing is known about Sen aside from his name
and that's where your theory falls apart, the firstborn was completely wiped from history including his name. There is no way Gwyn would let that place be called "Sen's Fortress", if it was called the nameless fortress or something you might've had something there but sadly you've missed by a mile
