Is it murder to preemptively kill someone who would certainly try to kill you if they just saw you first?
>>339823706
how can this moron even pretend to be a normal guy?
at least that aspect was made believeable in TLOU; people killed brutally but it all devastated them from the inside in some way or another
>>339823908
The guy in TLOU was a trained murderer / raider though before the events of the game, he even ate human flesh.
>>339823908
action movieverse
>>339823983
> he even ate human flesh.
yeah, no
but you're welcome to imagine whatever the fuck you want from the few obscure but generic words the character stated about his past as a 'survivor'
>>339823706
Legally, you'd probably have to prove within reason that he would in fact have attempted to kill you. Which I'd guess would be pretty tough to do
Y'know what would fix most of it?
Just give the enemies a sort of plot armor where no matter where you shoot them it always manages to be non-lethal except under very specific circumstances. They should just all lay on the ground afterwards going "Ooooo Oow" and shit.
>>339823706
If there is any possible way for you to walk away from the conflict but you choose to push-on anyway, then yes it is murder.
>>339824310
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bOO0hShP2_o
Like this?
>>339824272
This particular scene would not go well in court.
Rafe legally owns all the land around the abandoned Cathederal and the Shorline Mercs were acting as his security. Drake is legally trespassing, so an unprovoked attack on someone paid to guard it would never go his way.We are talking about Uncharted 4, right? I'm on mobile so I can't watch the WeBm.
>>339824263
It's literally in the official biography of the character, but feel free to believe what you think is right
>>339823706
i dunno ask indiana jones
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xcuS8xusy8k
>>339823706
If you're trespassing and they have good reason to shoot on sight, then yes.
>>339824545
Yeah. At best you could argue he's acting as a vigilante since those guys are probably doing something illegal. But that in and of itself is illegal so whoops.
>>339824263
>>339823983
He was a smuggler who knew his way around a fight. I don't remember any of this human flesh business.
>>339824630
Indi was straight-up killing Nazis most of the time, though. That's just him fightin' the good fight like any patriotic American. And a good amount of his kills were usually accidental, like the airplane propeller guy.
they're all pirates and mercs working for war criminals, or mercs that ARE war criminals
the only questionable one is chucking the guard off the roof to the hundred metre ocean drop in 2
>>339823706
Asking whether Drake commits crimes is like asking whether or not a bear shits in the woods. The guy is a trained thief.
>>339824918
that museum guard lived. He swims away if you stay and watch him after he falls
>>339824540
Jesus fuck the things people are resorting to to beat the automatic copyright takedowns on YouTube are getting ridiculous
>>339823706
Minority Report.
>>339824931
>thief
You mean mass murderer.
The fact that Nathan Drake could settle down and raise a kid in a happy home and live the idyllic retired life is a fucking joke. The guy from A History of Violence would be appalled at what he's done.
>>339824618
citation needed or fuck off
you won't, though, because you're a gormless retard who didn't think it through; he doesn't emphatize with cannibals because they're made the lowest of scum in the game and their shit gets decimated because of it
>>339823706
It's called imminent threat and it's legal.
Although I don't think it counts if you're also an imminent threat to the person who would kill you.
In that webm, depending on the situation, none of those kills were legal. Them trying to kill you could entirely be self defence.
>>339823706
Long version of OP webm with sound:
https://i.4cdn.org/wsg/1464961196121.webm
>>339824545
Rafe would also go to prison as would all his mercs for carrying firearms in a country where it is banned. You cannot shoot someone with an AK for trespassing.
>>339825447
>>339823706
Anyone else jarred by how Drake's entire body just jerks back in like 1 frame as he snaps that guy's neck?
>>339825135
Sometimes you gotta kill a guy or a thousand to get him/them out of the way.
>>339825563
I always knew professional thievery is simple, you just slip in, kill 3 to 9 thousands armed men, and slip out all silently.
>>339825135
Drake has only killed people that are trying to kill him. He might be a psychotic mass killer, but he's not a murderer.
>>339825135
he still steals things, hes a thief.
>>339825705
>go where I shouldn't be
>the army stationed there doesn't like it
>"uh well they started it"
Maybe he should fuck off and get a job.
>>339825135
It's not murder if you're defending your own life. If the mercs drake came across would tackle and arrest him, you'd have a point, but they don't do that. The minute they spot him they greet him with bullets every time.
>>339825314
im surprised his daughter wasnt murdered for all the shit im hearing he's done
>>339825742
Is it stealing when you kill all the owners?
>>339825803
So after he took down the imminent threat - its only a given to continue on despite the armed resistence and just kill all of them.
>>339825803
Alright then. Try to run into Area 51, a local military base, or the White House, armed with an assault rifle, and see if they tackle and arrest you or shoot you on sight.
>>339825896
>Is it stealing when you kill all the owners?
you are stealing their lives.
>>339825803
Maybe the mercs are only shooting and trying to kill him because he is an imminent threat to their lives?
>>339826002
Its reaver though not stealer
>>339825896
>oh I killed a man, better stop the journey to save my brother
No, m8.
>>339825934
What point are you trying to prove here?
If I walked into the white house with an assault rifle and didn't aim it at anyone and I was shot and killed, I would have been murdered.
>>339825832
nobody wants to try vendetta-killing Drake or his family because they're afraid of him. I wouldn't try to assassinate a man who has fought and killed entire battalions of trained soldiers in infantry combat all by himself
>>339826214
Drake killed hundreds in the earlier game before any reasoning like that.
>>339826056
No, they're trying to kill him because they're paid to kill and their boss just told them to.
>>339826258
The every first enemy you come across in an uncharted game are pirates trying to kill you.
>>339826218
all they gotta do is run up on her in a parking lot and BOOM retaliation murder - STAY THE FUCK OUT OR BIZNISS DRAKE
>>339826214
>If I walked into the white house with an assault rifle and didn't aim it at anyone
>didn't aim it at anyone
Anon, I don't think that makes a difference. An assault rifle is a weapon of war. I think any police officer or soldier who shot at you in that scenario would be justified.
>>339826375
And the very first thing they see is a thief trying to steal shit.
>>339826292
Doesn't remove the fact that he is trying to kill them.
And from what I remember, dudes a thief who probably shouldn't be there in the first place. Would you shoot someone trying to burgle your house? Would it be justified if the burglar shot you first because you were going to shoot him (for burgling your house)?
>>339826218
Nobody bothered hiring that black mercenary to kill drake before hand?
>>339826436
>justified in killing me because I had a weapon that wasn't aimed at anyone
>not arresting me instead
All this is besides the point.
>>339823706
Depends on where you live.
Generally speaking, if there was no way to exit the situation peacefully then it is not murder. However, if there was any way to leave without fighting then it is murder.
Drake is an amoral mass murderer that only appears human because of an odd disconnection between the gameplay and the interactions he has with his cast. The franchise is a series of shitty B grade action movie and how it manages to be popular or heralded for its maturity I'll never understand
>>339826454
Anything a pirate lays his eyes on is "their shit".
>>339826056
This. From the position of a shoreline merc, you wouldn't even know who started this whole conflict or why you are even trying to kill eachother. You are just nervous because you know there might be that sneaky gun-toting psychopath hiding in the bushes, who has already killed a few of your buddies
>>339826679
No real different to a "thief" like drake, theres no moral highground for him, he could be called a pirate just the same
>>339826479
You only kill because you know you have no choice. There isn't an option to sneak past guards in uncharted with one exception with the museum mission in U2.
It's possible for every single firefight in Uncharted games to be instigated by the enemy and not drake.
>>339826436
In the US probably not actually. Having a legal firearm would (in the eyes of the law) get you no different treatment than having arms would. Sure you can use your arms as a weapon, but if your fists aren't raised like you're ready to fight then no one can legally justify attacking you.
That's not to say they wouldn't call the police and take steps to protect themselves, but they can't legally touch you just for having a legal firearm.
>>339826759
He's not a pirate, he's just a thief and as for Drakes coffin, he found it first so there's that.
>>339825537
he does it like that because it takes a very fast and powerful motion to snap a mans neck
>>339826759
He's white though
>>339823706
yes. you have to let them kill you first
>>339826595
The point is that you'd be too dangerous to approach without putting the officers or soldiers lives in danger.
Its just risk evaluation. Why else would you logically have an assault rifle but to shoot people with?
Why does everyone give Drake flack for killing when 95 percent of games have the main character killing?
Did you ever stop to think about the families of the men whose lives Drake so brutally took from them.
Their children, their wives/girlfriends, their parents, friends and other loved ones.
Brutally killed because Drake was after some "treasure" in some mythological city than might not even have existed.
Is Drake gaming's most brutal psychopath?
Honestly, in my headcanon I always just imagine the gameplay sections are exaggerated and that there aren't actually that many guys trying to kill him otherwise it makes no sense that entire armies couldn't kill him. I think I killed 1400 guys on my first playthrough according to statistics.
>>339826851
Perhaps, but we're talking in a normal walking down the street kind of scenario here.
What I was referring to was specifically breaking in to a military base or the white house.
If you're caught sneaking around, low to the group with the in hand, that's not something I think most uniformed men would react positively towards.
>>339823706
Not according to Bethesda
>>339827109
most of those games have the enemy shooting at you first meaning it becomes a matter of survival
>>339827062
No, that's not the point at all. I'm pretty sure that I would get yelled at to "lay on the ground" and "drop your weapon!" before I took a bullet to the dome. I would be given a choice.
>>339827109
Because it's ironic how he suddenly has a conscience and is against all forms of killing whenever he is in a cutscene
>>339827265
bullshit you're just bitching just to bitch
>>339827125
Drake has family and friends too. Are their families more important than his?
>>339824464
>Be Nathan Drake
>Want some treasure
>Go kill a bunch of people for the treasure
Great job sony for teaching our children that if they want something in life they should just go murder thousands of archeologist
>>339827356
Hundreds of families > one family
>>339827305
>Because it's ironic how he suddenly has a conscience and is against all forms of killing whenever he is in a cutscene
I admit i haven't played 4
but in uncharted 1-3 he wasn't against killing in the slightest.
>>339827402
Wrong. Your family isn't worth more than anothers because you couldn't shoot quick enough.
>>339826794
If you wanna be a pacifist you can actually sneak past a lot of the enemy encounters in U4:
https://youtu.be/G9XAsVRDiWs?t=789
>>339827552
aye but there are some sections that force you to have a firefight.
>>339827424
At the beginning of the second one he is concerned about the life of the museum guards, then later he is trigger happy and more than willing of snapping people necks.
>>339827730
>an action adventure game has you killing people
the travesty of it all
>m-MUH BIDEOGAME MORALS!!!!
>>339827179
Well firstly, how a soldier reacts isn't necessarily legal. Morally justifiable yeah, but not necessarily lawful.
It almost certainly would be lawful to kill someone that forced their way onto the white house lawn, even if it's not treated as a military base (and so might not be subject to the laws that govern private residences) it'd be perfectly reasonable to assume that someone in that situation was a threat. As they have taken action outside of the norm at the very least.
>>339827773
because its a security guard just doing his job plus they're sneaking in the museum and don't want to raise the alarms. the people Drake kills are also remorseless killers.
>>339823706
fuck I should've used grenades so much more in this game I never did aye
>>339827943
They are mercenaries doing their job and after a couple of hunderds of collegues killed probably they are quite vengeance driven.
>>339827813
I'm not complaining about it you mong.
>>339823706
Sort of depends on what your goal is.
Escaping or disabling a gang of rapist serial killers or a bunch of terrorists shooting up a building by preemptively killing them? Then I would say it's not murder, or well, morally wrong murder.
Killing anyone, preemptively or not, while on a retarded quest that has nothing to do with survival or the survival of others, murder.
I.E, Nathan Drake, Lara Croft, murderers.
>>339828334
>it's ok if the mercs are told to kill drake but he can't kill them :^)
>>339828334
doing their job killing people
>>339823706
No it's not, in UK law it's self defense.
>To gain an acquittal, the defendant must fulfil a number of conditions. The defendant must believe, rightly or wrongly, that the attack is imminent. Lord Griffith said in Beckford v R:
>"A man about to be attacked does not have to wait for his assailant to strike the first blow or fire the first shot; circumstances may justify a pre-emptive strike."
>>339828426
Anon please
Drake enters in a militarized zone and at the beginning of Uncharted 2 he is the first one going for the kill, in order to place the bombs and create the distraction.
Don't tell me he is acting in self-defense, he is willing to kill hundreds of people just to get to that fucking stone.
But of course for plot reasons he nevers put a bullet in the head of that crazy russian guy.
>>339828450
>>"A man about to be attacked does not have to wait for his assailant to strike the first blow or fire the first shot; circumstances may justify a pre-emptive strike."*
>*"Unless the man is white and the assailant is a minority, then the defendant will be tried on first degree murder."
>>339828426
Its his fucking terrain that he legally bought he can do whatever the fuck he wants.
Drake can't
>>339828715
>Make a reply to OP's question
>Someone shitposts and turns into a race comment yet again
>>339828753
So if I buy a plot of land can I lure women onto it and rape them with no repercussions?
Any kill is murder. Self defense is just a justified murder.
>>339828880
No but you can put security guards there which is all rafe did
>>339823706
Did you feel threatened? If yes then its self defense.
>>339828862
Oh, don't be so anal. I was just making a joke.
>>339823706
Never played Uncharted but Nathan Drake looks like a really obnoxious character.
>hey I killed a bunch of people back there, here is a witty line
>>339828862
Not him but your reply is worthless and a massive oversimplification of very complicated law
Fuck off
>>339828753
You do know self defense kill is not legal in many country like the UK and Canada.
>>339828753
boohoo an action adventure game is making me kill people boohooo
maybe this more your speed with your delicate sensibilities the mean Mr.Drake won't bother you in there
>Uncharted 4, graphically, looks good.
>Gameplay looks boring and the same shit we've had for years.
What's the point?
>>339826851
If you waltzed into the fucking White House uninvited with an assault rifle, you'd be turned into swiss cheese before you could even blink, regardless of whether or not you were aiming at anyone
>>339824868
>That's just him fightin' the good fight
I don't know why this made me laugh so much.
>>339828940
Every one of them was armed and security guards have no more legal authority than a private citizen. Just because they worked for the guy that owned the land doesn't give them any legal protection.
>>339829019
He's wrong because 99% of the time the murderer gets away with it. Like that cop shooting that black guy who was running away. How is it self defense when someone is literally 10 feet from you, has no weapon, and who is actively running away from you. That's murder.
>>339823706
Yes, because you have no way to be absolutely certain.
>>339823706
when this game first came out wasn't the draw that the protag wasn't an action hero? like he wasn't good at shooting and he tripped all the time and he was always scared. i thought he was supposed to be average. is it getting more actiony or was it always like this? i never played any but i remember almost buying a ps3 because of it.
>>339829239
To shitpost PC gamers because graffix.
>>339829239
and the set pieces are the worst in the series, those make or break a UC game
>>339829195
That's not the issue you fucking idiot.
The problem is that the game wants to have its cake and eat it too, by having a murderous psychopath as the protagonist and also wanting him to appear as a witty and relatable underdog.
>>339829395
>Initial D
Muh nig has taste I see. Can't be helped.
>>339823908
>feel bad for killing shit people or people who want to kill you.
Reddit is the other way my friend
>>339829289
Yeah and that may well be legal, because you can't just 'waltz into the white house uninvited'. If you force your way onto the property with a weapon you are an imminent threat in a way that simply possessing a firearm isn't.
>>339826851
no, retard. if you come into a house univited with a rifle of any kind you can be shot dead in many states legally. it'll be a shitstorm of court dates and legal fees most likely but you can do it.
>>339829463
Can you not just stealth past them all like you can in Deus Ex?
Undermeme has ruined this board. If someone is trying to kill you, fight back.
>>339824545
How do you do the spoilers thing on mobile?
>>339829463
Ever heard of ludonarrative dissonance?
Besides, the people he kills outsides of cutscenes are non-canon.
>>339829463
>and relatable underdog.
Who has ever said that since the first game? I haven't ever discovered lost treasures, legendary cities, fought zombies and Yeti's, while also taken down secret societies and wanted wanted warlords. you just want to bitch
>>339829004
>hey I killed a bunch of people back there, here is a witty line
Always found that a bit off. Especially in Japanese games where characters are a lot more cute and happy. Like your cute teen innocent love interest just slaughtered half an army and they are still played off as being innocent and pure.
>>339829419
not really he's indiana jones with an ak.
>>339823706
>That red barrel
That's pretty video game for something trying to be a movie
>>339823706
>>339824464
this seems fun but I only have a ps3. Should I pick the first 3 games up for it?
>>339829662
If you kill 50 guys a couple of hours ago, you don't go cracking jokes like if you were from some shitty action movie.
>>339825803
It's murder if you purposefully put yourself into a situation where someone would want to kill you so that you could kill them in 'self defense'.
>>339829937
You're right every action/adventure games features the vast emotions and consequences of killing. Fuck off
>>339829892
because video games often push the enemy as the bad guys
shit its so fucking prevalent that even when it doesn't people just assume they are bad guys
>>339829892
It's ok because they are still virgins. You can be more bloody than your character in bloodborne and still be innocent and pure as long as you're a virgin, which I know you are.
>>339829624
Civilians aren't permitted to bring guns into the White House at all
>>339829626
Alright I think I see what's causing the confusion. It's not the presence of the weapon alone that gives you the right to shoot them. It's their behaviour, in our examples that behaviour being them entering your property. That's why you can kill unarmed intruders legally in many states, but you can't just go around killing anyone with a gun.
>>339826218
>implying it's not going to happen in Uncharted 5
>>339825527
If they have an AK as well and they shoot first, it is very legal.
>>339830119
>because video games often push the enemy as the bad guys
yeah most video games don't humanize the enemies you are killing.
>>339830263
right. if you're walking down the street with a gun no one can shoot you legally. but if you come into a house with one you're done.
>>339829928
If you're ok with buying 3 games you will only play once, sure. They were fun but because they are so linear i have no interest in playing them ever again.
>>339823706
Is playing with the UI off supposed to make the game look good?
Because it just looks like the game lets you turn the auto aim up to the point the shooty bits are easier than the "platforming"
>>339829924
uncharted is supposed to feel like a video game; it actually embraces gameplay tropes like that. They put the boulder dash level of crash in for a reason: to remind you that Uncharted is just as video gamey as crash whenever you have those "run towards the camera away from vehicles or trucks or explosions" setpieces
>>339830774
prolly not a bad deal if I can pick them up for 10$ tho
>>339829019
>>339829328
Both of you shut the fuck up trying to talk about something you clearing have no understanding of you. The men ARE going to kill Nathan Drake when they see him therefore it is a legal pre emptive strike because they WILL kill him on sight, that's all you need for a pre emptive strike is the knowledge that the person is GOING to commit the crime.
>>339830852
You're complaining about nothing. You can turn the aim-assist entirely off (to 0%) in the controls options.
>>339824464
>hit markers in single player
Really?
>>339831027
always hated this
>>339829419
No. Not at all this.
>>339829239
how is the gameplay like in OP's webm boring? So if you were playing there you would be like "man, killing those 4 guys with a grenade before they could spread out or land a shot on me sure was lame," right?
>>339827170
This.
Sadly I think the devs realized he was killing a shitload of people so they reduced the amount of encounters in 4. To fit more with their more "mature" storytelling.
>>339831707
maybe he doesn't like cover shooters
>>339830852
You can just use the tracers to aim. Guy probably has a little piece of tape on his TV right where the crosshair would be.
And yes, no-HUD mode objectively looks more impressive
>>339831003
no a preemptive strike implies planning to kill someone. nathan also has the ability to run away. its only legal to murder someone if they're in your own home or if you have no other choice.
>>339823706
Does it even matter if you are not going to be prosecuted for it?
>>339831694
so that was never the point? i thought i read an article like that or something but it was years ago and probably before the first one even came out.
>>339826479
>burgling your house
drake did all the work discovering the island full of treasure and he showed up there before the mercs did. he has the most plausible rights to its belongings, not them
>>339823706
>>339824464
This guy is a fucking psychopath
>>339824868
A lot of German soldiers were innocent anon. For a good few of these people it was either join or die. For the others the propaganda was all-pervasive. You know how that "greatest country in the world" stuff is hugely effective nowadays? Same thing back then.
>>339832304
it doesn't matter if you're a sociopath who makes quips after killing people. Otherwise you might get PTSD or something
>>339832118
>And yes, no-HUD mode objectively looks more impressive
>>>/tv/
>>339830406
They do that in Valkyria Chronicles though.
There's even a scene in game where that girl in the picture helps another guy care for a sick enemy soldier until he dies.
>>339830863
this this this
stop complaining about the killing. The game has good graphics yes but it is really not pretending to be anything more than a videogame. The series is ripe with videogame cliches and that includes him killing tons of "bad guys".
>>339834108
that's why i said MOST
>>339833893
why should I need a HUD when everything I need to see is laid out in front of me, rendered with the in-game graphics? If you have grenades, you can see them because they are strapped to Nate's belt. And what weapons he has you can obviously see by looking at his holsters. If you cant reload after firing you know you're running low on ammo
HUDs are for plebs
why is it okay for every other series to let you kill hundreds of people but not for Uncharted?
>>339835650
people just wanted to bitch
