ITT Games only liked solely because of nostalgia.
Resident Evil 2
1 and 3 are objectively superior but everyone is blinded by 1998 syndrome
>>339756240
The whole series, to be honest
>>339756240
It's a bit slower paced but the music and atmosphere was great. The minigames also challenged friendships.
>>339756240
didn't have an n64 back when it was alive but I really like this game now
>try again
There are no games liked solely because of nostalgia, because in order to have nostalgia for a game you had to have enjoyed it when you first played it, creating a case where the game wasn't liked solely because of nostalgia.
>>339756240
I played this game for the first time recently and thought it was fun.
>>339756240
Nostalgia or not, the power combining was ingenious and should be used more
>>339757336
>>339756798
>>339756696
Sorry, but the game is shit. Powerups are completely downgraded when compared to Super Star, you have FAR less variety since only about 20% of the powerups are only good, and despite people complaining about current Nintendo titles being glorified collect-a-thons, that's what 64 was. You didn't use a powerup half the time because you enjoyed it. You used it because you needed to collect something.
Charm can only carry a game so far.
>>339757061
I was going to post something similar, but I think he means he feels nostalgia for kirby games, which makes no fucking sense at all.
I think he meant brand recognition, love for the franchise or something equally retarded.
Best example of it anywhere today
It's still a good game, but holy shit the padding is awful.
>>339757657
My point is every fucking Kirby thread, people talk about how great this game is, when they only experienced it beforehand as kids when video games were still new to them, and the idea of a game with pretty colors and combining powers probably overshadowed all the negatives that actually exist in 64, giving it false praise.
The only positive things I hear about 64 are it's charming and "fun" and those are both shitty buzzwords that don't justify a game's actual worth.
>>339758513
so you're saying that a game being fucking fun doesn't define it's worth? if this is the case then what the fuck is the point of any video game? what do you look for in a game?
>>339758497
>Gamecube
>Nostalgia
fuck off underagefag
>>339758513
Actually, first played it two years ago. It's really fun and I wish power combing would come back.
point and click adventure games are cancer
>>339758176
MGS2 is like the completely opposite of that.
People fucking hated it during launch, it was only after later games complimented it that people started appreciating what it tried to do.
But at release? People didn't want any social commentary on the nature of sequels, they wanted Snake and MGS1-2. If /v/ was around back then this board would go up in flames.
>>339758887
You are correct
>>339758859
>not knowing what nostalgia means
fuck off, underagefag
>>339758672
Yes, especially when you have other games in the series that are so much better and are far more worth a playthrough in comparison. Dreamland 2 and Super Star are examples of this. They both have extrordinarily more positives, and don't need to rely on cheap buzzwords to prove their worth as solid video games.
I don't get why it's so hard for nostalgiafags to admit when a game they like is bad, or at least at minimum come up with some proper constructive criticism other than "b-but fun!"
>>339759369
Weird that people who enjoy a game don't agree with your opinion that the game is bad. What could they be hiding?
its shit now
>>339759028
No if you have nostalgia with anything post NES you're an obvious child.
Your favorite video game.
>>339758412
I still play this regularly. Also playing Halo 2 for the first time recentlyfucking snipers
>>339758887
Gemini Rue was released in 2011 and received moderate critical acclaim. I think point and clicks are forced to tell an interesting story because of gameplay limitations, although at the risk of not having much replay value.
>>339759369
you can add as many "positive features" and appealing graphics as you want but in the end if a game isn't fun it's shit and no one's going to play it. i'm not arguing with your examples but i don't see how anyone could say a game being fun doesn't make a difference.
>>339756240
how come i liked this game when it came out then?
>>339758513
I found the game a bit clunky, there were many times I wish kirby didn't feel so restricted. I enjoyed almost everything else, the music is still some of my favorite comps next to air ride, the color pallette translates well from dreamland 3, and stages have neat and creative backdrops. Another negative is a lack of borb.
The fact that so many books still name Ocarina of Time as “the greatest or most significant or most influential” game ever only tells you how far video games still are from becoming a serious art.
>>339759885
>but i don't see how anyone could say a game being fun doesn't make a difference.
I mean we could make the claim that, for example, Sticker Star is "fun" so therefore it's a good game and an excellent addition to the Paper Mario series.
I don't give a shit if you find a game fun, but I don't like when others will hold games so high on a pedestal, and their only retort is that it's a fun game. What's the point of attempting to push games to be more than cheap toys when any sort of valid criticism is objectified because the source material is fun?
Fun is easily one of the most cancerous words in the human language.
>>339758859
It came out 12 years ago. If he was at least 6 in 2004 he is not underage. 6th gen is actually nostalgic.
Time flies when you when you waste away your life.
>>339760205
Not him, but I would like for people to explain what makes said game fun.
And you're wrong on the whole "fun is the worst word" thing. It's literally.
The game is fun so it's good.
>>339760205
I have never played SS, but I can only assume 100% of the people who hate that game do not think it is fun.
Fun is basically synonymous with good. You can't make a good game that's fun, and if it's fun, it's not bad.
>>339758912
>later games complimented it
I didn't realize that MGS3 poking fun at how bad Raiden was and MGS4 shitting on the entirety of MGS2 counted as a compliment.
> what it tried to do.
absolutely nothing outside of a bigass "bait and switch" bullshit that went full retard at the end?
>>339760507
Not really, because you can classify anything as being fun. You could play something shitty like Superman 64 or Sonic 2006 and say you had fun with them, but that "fun" could derive from anything, finding humor in how bad it is for example.
>>339760475
That's what I'm getting at. I hear so many explanations for every other Kirby game when their quality is brought into question, but 64 is stuck in this permanent safe zone for whatever fucking reason where it's void of any sort of criticism.
I agree with literal though, but I honestly haven't seen that word posted in a while.
>>339757645
No, I used the power-ups because I enjoyed them. Don't be so shocked people actually liked it.
>>339761003
Why? For example, the sword Super Star had FAR more diversity than any power up that existed in 64.
I can understand new powerups being refreshing, like the broom powerup in Dreamland 3, but that doesn't necessarily make them good. In terms of powerup quality, 64 is the only game in the series to have a decline in powerup quality. Return to Dreamland is a mediocre game, but the one thing it did right was make powerups feel unique and diverse compared to Super Star, and every other Kirby game that came before it.
>>339761000
I don't really think anyone who finds humor in a game's flaws will really say they had fun. Also, you seem to be stuck on Kirby and Sticker Star bullshit while everyone else is talking of games in general. An individual who thinks that a game is fun does not mean that person is devoid of finding any flaws with the game.
>it all comes down to a personal opinion that varies game to game, person to person
>>339761384
It was fun testing out the different combinations and the whole game felt easy for me to sit down and play. Diversity in terms of moveset was a downgrade but I didn't feel too nerfed using them. I won't deny there are better games (Super star Ultra, robobot) but for what the game is Kirby 64 it a-okay. And I only played it last week.
>>339761000
>you can classify anything as being fun
And you can classify anything as good, it's just that it's worthless unless you provide justification. In the case of supes 64 I can say it's fun because it made me laugh, or I can say it's good because it made me laugh. Obviously lots of people will disagree with that, but to me it's sort of hypocritical to say you had fun with a game but it's actually bad.
IMO, "good" is basically subjective while "fun" is objective. I mean, whether or not a game is fun is obviously subjective, but what I mean is fun is just an emotion, you can't really choose whether or not you have fun. You do, however, get to choose what good means to you. So it's not wrong to say "Supes 64 is fun, but it's trash," I guess, but to me it's just pointlessly disingenuous. It's not any less valid to say "the game is good because XYZ made me laugh" than "the game is bad because XYZ are terrible elements" (I would be more specific but I've never actually played the game.)
>>339761000
>>339760053
I didn't feel the need to point it out but I'll make myself clearer. I don't like the gameplay in 64, kirby feels weird and some powerups feel too situational for their own good, that isn't to say I didn't have fun experimenting with them either. Most of my enjoyment comes from what I said in the earlier post, music and some art direction.
Sonic Adventure 2 Battle.
>>339760107
But real art is full of shitty pieces and artists getting more praise than they deserve, so if anything the fact that it is so heavily referenced as a "pinnacle of an era" would fit very well into the traditional art world. Also Ocarina is good.
>>339762273
This one is objectively incorrect, the chao garden makes it 100% worthwhile to play.
>>339756562
>insinuating
There is no bad Kirby game
>>339761840
This.
I think that Kirby 64 was excellent and the large majority of people who played it agree. Despite what a few people may say, it was good and a solid Kirby game.
>>339762341
bro it's b8 don't give him the (you)
>>339758056
As a long time fan of pokemon,
the old games are so fucking slow and bullshitty.
Truly something you can call artificial difficulty.
>>339760107
If you get your opinions of video games off e-celeb fags on youtube you need to be banned for underage.
The music is nostalgia overload
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cL_xLGoLcx8
>>339758887
Yup. Played Indiana Jones. Got cancer.
>>339756240
All Final Fantasies prior to 10 (I am guilty of it as well).
>>339762553
Would you like to explain why? BioShock Infinite looked pretty and had good musical pieces, yet many agree that game was garbage, for example. And like stated earlier, there are FAR better Kirby games.
>>339756240
>played this when I was a kid
>loved it
>got it on WiiU VC recently
>liked it so much I finished it 100% in one sitting
I dunno man, maybe your taste is just shit.
>>339764057
I don't personally like BI, but I don't speak for vast amount that did. Also just because there are better Kirby games doesn't mean that the lesser are trash, although that does incur dislike among some. Just saying that I enjoyed it and most people who played it did, that doesn't restrict people from disliking it.
>>339762341
Dreamland 1 and 2 are shit senpai
>>339758497
What padding? Are you talking about the 30 minutes worth of backtracking throughout the entire game?
>>339756240
I played this for the first time as a teenager in 2009 and I loved it.
>>339759579
Maplestory is shit regardless, but it's a better game nowadays than it was before.
>>339764057
Just because there are better Kirby games doesn't make 64 shit.
>>339759579
It was always shit, and you know it.
>>339756240
>>339756562
Kill yourselves
>>339758859
Not him, but I'm nostalgic for GC games and i'm 19. Time flies ya old fuck
>>339756240
Nah, this game is good. Not half as long as I remember it being, but tight throughout.
Kirby 64 is a very average game, and is far from one of the best Kirby games.
It's slow as shit.
Most of the power-ups are awful, some even being essentially useless. This face becomes even worse when you consider that Super Star came out right before it.
The game being piss easy, even for a Kirby game. The only thing that poses any sort of "challenge" is Miracle Matter. The atmosphere for 02 is great, but it's literally "hold right and tap b" the boss.
Crystal Shards being locked towards the end of a level, requiring a specific combo power. This would be fine and dandy, but most of the time it requires a combo that CAN'T EVEN BE ACQUIRED IN THE LEVEL. A better way to handle it would been having the combo in the level, and actually requiring you to think which combo you needed to get the shard, rather than just color-coding it and telling you to go to another level and get the combo you need so you can drag it all the way to the end of the level.Seriously, who the fuck thought it was a good idea to have to find the dynamite power outside, then enter the level and drag it to the very fucking end? You literally can't use the power at any point in the level without blowing yourself up.
One of the WORST offenders of overratedness. /v/ lauds the game solely because it was different and challenging. It becomes such a drag during the second part of the game though, definitely not worthy of the praise it garners.
Still great tho.
>>339765694
>because it was different and challenging.
which is good in this day and age of handholding out of the ass
>>339765694
>second half is bad meme
Kill yourself
>>339758056
I can't understand how people over the age of 13 can play pokemon at all. I think you're wrong and that's worse than if you were right.
>>339758176
fedoras like it. they liked it then, they like it now. it's not nostalgia.
>>339758412
wrong
>>339758887
this is simplyright
>>339759003
yes, but I can legitimately see how it was good then. textbook "aged like milk".
>>339762645
What's your favorite game? For me is Soul Silver. The addition of the pokewalker and the length of the game make it the best imo
>>339765920
>fedoras
who cares what those elitist pricks think
>>339765925
Soul Silver would be perfect if it had fixed the two biggest problems with the originals: The Pokemon distribution and the level curve.
The first one is touched on a little bit thanks to the Safari Zone(and the Pokewalker I guess), but the level curve issue isn't addressed at all.
Thankfully romhacks fix both these issues very easily, and makes it a very fun experience.
>>339760107
if I played it for the first time ever today... I think I would consider it a 7/10 enjoyable game
>>339766037
they're the only people who like it. it's a boring game, the only thing it has is a bunch of /deepshit/ at the end
>>339760107
It sure is overrated but its still a good game anon
>>339758859
Get fucked grandpa. you can be nostalgic about anything no matter how old or new. Even a game you just finished playing.
>>339760107
It's a good game but after playing Majora's Mask I prefer the latter. I think it's two times as good as this game is, I know this is an unpopular opinion.
>Poor track design that doesn't accomodate the poor handling
>Drifting is high risk, low reward
>Bad item balance (2nd place Lightning anyone?)
>Ugly graphics even by N64 standards
>Mostly bland music with a lot of recycling
And worst of all:
>AI is broken and blatantly cheats
This game barely has any redeeming features besides nostalgia.
>>339765670
I like you
>>339766168
>the only thing it has is a bunch of /deepshit/ at the end
and it wasn't even deep. Plus I dismissed it because of the speaker
>>339765903
Duke's archives freshness was short lived and Crystal Cave was wack, and the bossfight was ass.
The Catacombs became annoying to be in after the 30th 2spooky Nito was cool I guess.
Izalith/the Giant place lost its luster hella fast and every bossfight was ass there.
New Londo ruins was GARBAGE, bossfight was uninteresting.
Sif and Gwyn were the only interesting fights around that time. Dark Souls is not as great as you hold it to be.
>>339766418
>and it wasn't even deep
it's a sad state of affairs desu
>>339756240
metroid
>>339766401
I still enjoyed the game, and it does do a few things right, namely the atmosphere and the characters. It's one of the few games where Kirby has a personality outside of "I love food!".
90 Replies and they still haven't mentioned my favorite game.
Good job /v/
>>339765925
The best Pokemon games are tied between HGSS and Platinum. Not only did Gen 4 fix a lot of the battle issues and physical/special distribution, but they both had a wide variety of Pokemon to choose from, and while Platinum emphasizes more on that point, HGSS takes everything that made GSC great and amplifies it to a faster, updated version of the game.
I'd include DP, but the variety in those games were probably the worst to ever exist in a Pokemon game. Dozens of shitty water, bug and grass types literal the first 4 major areas of the game, and if you didn't pick Chimchar, your only other available fire type for the remainder of the game was fucking Ponyta.
>>339766317
>AI is broken and blatantly cheats
I don't recall ever having a difficult time in 150cc and mirror unlike MK8
>>339756240
>Seeing the final boss for the first time as a young lad
>>339766798
I would say BW2 is up there with HGSS and Platinum.
>>339766537
1st half of Dark Souls is the high point of the entire series though. Of course, Izalith is literally the worst part of the series, so it balances out. Catacombs are great, fuck right off and Duke's isn't that bad, and Seath is most certainly not ass. New Londo is kinda awful, but it's super easy to speed through and pretty small, so no biggy. Four Kings are eh, I agree.
>>339759583
Are you retarded or illiterate?
>>339756240
I don't know how anyone can think this is better than 3 or one of the best platformers ever. The overworld map and secret exits are the only great things about the game.
>>339766896
I'd agree, but I unintentionally skipped those games. Fell out of the series with gen 5's inclusion. From what my brother told me though, the variety sounds really nice, like you can catch a Riolu in the first area.
>>339756240
world of warcraft is from most of my standards an absolutely terrible game
however i pay 15$ a month for it just because of nostalgia
>>339766713
No one thinks it's good.
>>339766713
>his favorite game is old
>what a fag
>>339766798
BW2 are the best games in the series, bar none. Platinum is a close second, and while I fucking love GS and by extension, really fucking love HGSS, it's mostly because of nostalgia and HGSS really doesn't fix any of GS's core issues.
BW2 improved almost entirely on BW, which itself improved a lot of stuff from Gen 4. Great Pokemon variety, a lot of stuff to do post game, BW's huge regional dex is made even bigger, you had a hard mode which admittedly wasn't that hard because it's Pokemon, but still, it's a step in the right direction.
>>339766798
Eh, I couldn't really bring myself to slog though HG. Used the pokewalker a ton though.
>>339766075
When mention the level curve issue, you're talking about the fact that there are a bunch of weak pokemon/ trainers and the elite four being weak? Or are you more talking about Red's pokemon being pretty high levleled?
desu
How is Morrowind not already on here?
>>339768359
It feels so unrefined when you compare it to Jak 3.
>>339756240
Does anyone like a game "solely because of nostalgia"?
I don't know about you, but I don't feel nostalgic about games that childhood me thought was utter shit. A game had to actually have been good to some degree for me to feel a keen feeling of nostalgia for it.
Crystal Shards was a decent game and that's why I like it. I have nostalgia for it because I liked it.
>>339768735
consider this: for someone to be a faggot he must first to something faggy. You posted this shit, it was faggy. You are a faggot because you do faggy shit.
>>339768359
This.
The game was filled with atrocious design decisions everywhere.
>>339764682
Wrong, they're the only Kirby games with any challenge whatsoever (playing on Extra mode which is unlocked after beating the game once).
>feature one decent side game as a distraction
>side game tickles people's autism enough to want to raise little niggers and try to grind stats
>memories become clouded and autists remember the stat grinding side thing fondly enough to have completely forgotten how shitty the actual game was
>>339769937
I'll have you know I could tolerate the gameplay of 4 of the 6 characters.
>>339756240
That is the only Kirby game I really like because you can spend the whole game experimenting with the unique mixing mechanic. The other Kirby games feel like run of the mill to me, not bad but nothing special.
It's the Forbidden Memories of Kirby games.
-Jet Set Radio Future
-Wind Waker
-Super Metroid
-Megaman X
-Final Fantasy VI(sprites look so terrible, FFVII aged so much better in my opinion)
-Majora's Mask
These are the most overrated games that have aged like milk. They sucked back then, and they suck now.
>>339769994
The only good gameplay was Sonic and Shadow, but half of their levels sucked anyways.
>>339770216
>Wind Waker
n- well ok
>Majoras Mask
no
>>339756240
I like it and I don't have nostalgia for it.
>>339765670
>most of the time it requires a combo that CAN'T EVEN BE ACQUIRED IN THE LEVEL
Literally 2 or 3 shards you giant baby.
>>339765670
Push down after throwing dynamite and a hard hat protects you
>>339756240
>>339756562
>>339757645
>>339757645
>compared to Super Star
Well stop doing that you fucking moron. Dream Land 3 and Kirby 64 aren't Superstar 2 and 3. Judge a game by its own merits.
>>339771237
It's really hard to when every game after 64 did nothing but attempt to improve on Super Star's design.
>>339770395
No, they're terrible games. They haven't aged as gracefully as say, Goldeneye or Mario 64.
Borderlands ONE
>>339771421
Shame they all failed.
Anyway, the series branched off after Adventure. The Dream Land series stayed closer to the series' roots, and the other path tries to be an acion series and just rehashes Super Star endlessly.
>>339765920
>I can't understand how people over the age of 13 can play pokemon at all
Everyone in the world plays Angry Birds despite being even simpler and child-oriented than Pokemon.
>>339771729Robobot is better than Super Star
>>339756240
Its alright, admittedly less cool than when I was a kid, but still a solid Kirby game.
Still better than that Canvas Curse type garbage and yarn shit.
>>339757645
Collect-a-thon implies that the collecting is necessary for progression like how it's the case in DK64 and Banjo Kazooie. You literally do not need to collect anything in Kirby 64 to beat it, though you do need all the crystals to get the true ending.
>>339772463
I actually really liked the game, but come the fuck on man. I know there are plenty of people who will always say the newest one is the best one, but fuck me, it's nowhere near as good as Super Star.The Robobot is a retarded idea for Kirby and it bogs down the game, it's less fun and intuitive than just playing as Kirby, the layered level stuff is an excuse not to design levels that are actually good, the aesthetic and sound design are total shit compared to, getting the cubes is more tedious than the fucking crystal shards which can be pretty bullshit, boss fights are awful by comparison, no helpers, no multiplayer, the subgames and minigames are barebones and boring, Meta Knightmare has always just been a slog, Doctor Kirby is a stupid power with a stupid design.Super Star > Adventure > Amazing Mirror > Kirby Adventure Wii > Mouse Attack > Robobot > Triple Deluxe
>>339773412
I mean I'm going into Robobot with low expectations because of how lackluster the previous 2 titles are, but that's disappointing to hear.
Thanks for the warning though.
>>339773412
>>339773597
He has really bad taste, pay him no mind.
Anyone who unironically thinks Squeak Squad is better than Robobot, or even Triple Deluxe is a moron.
>>339770040
>>339773597
It's worth mentioning, though I personally don't care for the Robobot, it's a definite improvement over super abilities and hypernova by a wide margin. And I still did really enjoy the game despite its faults, it's just no Super Star
Forgot to mention that there's frequent, game-halting cutscenes and dialogue, feels very un-Kirby. So watch out for that.
>>339773726
Best physics in the series, better abilities than Robobot, better enemies, and better level design.
>>339774546
>better level design
I know that Robobot consists mainly of gimmick levels, but that's way fucking better than the shit that went down in Squeak Squad.
It's basically 4-5 in Robobot the entire game.
>>339762645
Hilarious to me. Yes, some of the movement is a bit slower, but the battles are actually much quicker than DS onward, holy shit. That is painfully slow since so many things have long animations for how often they play.
>>339774546
>it's just no Super Star
I'm sure you'll agree when I say I don't think any game from Nintendo will ever be able to even scratch the same quality that Super Star produced.
>>339774717
Nah it's more like a hybrid of Kirby's Dreamland and the Great Cave Offensive in terms of level design.
>>339771536
you had me until goldeneye
well played
>>339774891
I'm not saying it's such a bad thing that it's not as good as Super Star, or that they should even be compared in the first place. I'm just explaining to anon why I didn't think it was as good, since he said it's better.
>>339758887
SCUMM games are good. Its TellTale that is shit.
>>339774273
It was great if you didn't bother collecting everything.
>>339758412
>>339765920
As a Halo fan, I agree.
CE isn't a bad game, but it's aged WAY more then any of the other Halo games and it without a doubt has the worst campaign, but nobody accepts it because nostalgia.
>>339759758
You playing the original version of 2 or H2A?
>>339770292
>>339769937
I disagree. Only rouge's stuff was overall bad.
There's no questioning knuckles/tails/eggman's stuff isn't as good as sonic or shadow's, but they are still fun, eggman's especially.
People say that Sa2 has aged poorly and people forget how janky it is, but that's bullshit, we've ALWAYS known how janky it is, even back in the day, it's fun in spite of/because of that, in the case of the mistimed dialog.
ITT threads solely made because of people who are mad that an old game they can't get into is popular
>>339777328
>Only rouge's stuff was overall bad.
Eggman and Tails were clunky messes, and all of the Sonic and Shadow levels were just hallways.
I still like the game pecause chao garden though.
>An orca flashes her pearly whites at Kirby. Unfortunately, a glitch in his DNA means that Kirby cannot assimilate the powers of aquatic predatory mammals.
What did they mean by this?
>>339777526
Nailed it
>>339756240
I played this for the first time around 2013 and it was still really fun, its actually pretty fun since it was harder than most kirby games and had a pretty fun mechanic for the powers. I know this is a bait post, but you make me wanna play it again so your bait has backfired.
>>339778293
I played it in 2014, same boat.
>>339777134
Original on the original Xbox huge.
>>339772463
>Kirby in a robot
Haven't played it but the very premise does not sit with me
>>339777985
It means they didn't want to code it in.
![Morrowind_1[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/Rv6XKAZ.jpg "Morrowind_1[1].jpg")
>>339762645
what the fuck are you even talking about. it's the only one that isn't bloated with superfluous features, doesn't have innate abilities that poison you every other battle, doesn't have an extra animation for exp.
>>339773914
you need more than twin headed thunder dragon to beat that game. not even 3 black meteor dragons and a lot of luck will beat that game. you need a twin headed thunder dragon deck, black meteor dragons, a bunch of good magic cards and luck.
>>339756240
This T B H I love Kirby but the game was like moving through molasses. My other complaint might be exclusive to the WiiU version, but on that version the controls for throwing your power to combine them with another baddy were insanely stupid, ruining a lot of the appeal of the power combining.
>>339769937
Runnan and Shootan were great. Treasure Huntan can be ok unless you get one of the retarded hiding placers that are super obscure and take forever to find.
>>339758887
http://www.oldmanmurray.com/features/77.html
Made me think of this
>>339782225
>that version the controls for throwing your power to combine them with another baddy were insanely stupid
Eh yeah but it makes interacting with eneies by holding them over your head possible, and you can duck down to put the power on your mouth in a feaction of a second, if you just want to spit it out.
