How do you feel about games like Fallout 1 having a 500 day limit until game over, and how go you feel about that being removed in a patch?
>>339725975
It's fine
I like it. Makes smaller decisions feel like they count more.
>>339725975
What would you possibly do for that long?
Just wander the desert in despair?
That's more than enough time to finish the game, and it was short as hell already.
I don't mind time limit games as long as it's not set up like in FTL, fucking hated having to run away from the fleet.
It's fine. 500 is very generous.
Removing it would completely ruin the game.
I liked it, gave you a sense of urgency.
When I was a kid I played the version of Fallout whereSupermutants raided Necropolisfuck around too much, I think there was a version when they do it to other places too.
>>339725975
i liked it in way of the samurai. gave each playthrough it's own feel. was a good ass game.
The only unfair time limit I felt was getting the water chip your very first time, of course you could just read an FAQ to work your way through it but whats the fun in that.
>>339726268
it was removed shortly after release, limit is now ~13 years
>>339726324
the super mutants attacked several settlements in a specific order
>>339725975
i just replayed fallout one and finished it yesterday with some of the content restored and let me tell you about the time limit. The number ticking down when you first play it adds to the intensity of the game you see this "huge" world and you want to see whats out there and experience all it has to offer but the game purposely rushes you to give urgency in the main quest which i still like. Games that have a time limit (within reason) i feel are fine and help create urgency for the player so he fucks around the game in a matter that is most efficient and each subsequent play through he gets faster and faster adding an element of personal challenge. As for it being removed in a patch it doesn't add or take away from the game at that point in the story Plus the fact that you have OVER A YEAR to grind does the opposite of creating urgency it creates a sense of lethargy making the player think he has all the time in the world. Removing it took nothing away nor did it add anything.
>>339725975
Depends on the game.
It works in F1 since it's a pretty short game. But if you got game over after 50 hours in Witcher 3, it would be pretty damn agitating.
I would like more games having a MQ with a timer (or certain things that has to be accomplished) or you'll get a game over, but that you'll still be able to play after loosing the MQ. Just with a drastically changed world. Perhaps more and harder enemies, new quests (some disappear), generally different atmosphere. Far too few games allows you to actually loose.
I was only a kid when the original fallout games released but I've always wondered were all black isle games rushed or had time constraints? What exactly was the job like in that studio?
>>339727252
all pc games around that time were subject to publisher fuckery, video games were becoming big and EA was buying up studios left and right
>>339727252
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dMWoPNNBJlQ
>>339728056
>>339727252
better link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xa5IzHhAdi4
>>339725975
When I first played the game I hated it and felt under pressure. Then I noticed how the time progressed ingame and how it was more than enough.
If it had been less time I wouldn't have liked the game much. I like to wander around back and forth.
>>339728312
This is really cool
Can't you get somebody to take water to the vault postponing the time limit anyway? I haven't played it in years now
>>339729824
doing that reduce the second timer when you need to kill the master and the lieutenant
>Anxious personality
>Like to do things my own pace
Absolutely hated the time limit. Even as a kid. Main reason I haven't replayed the game, even if its 13 years. Tribe leader begging me to come home, I hate it.
Now i'm playing fallout 4 with ultra realism mod, basicly only played and explored Ultra Jet system, lexington area, and the ration station. Very tactical, interesting and loving.
>>339730257
kek, what a casual
>>339725975
It's plenty of time. The only game where a time limit was enforced in an annoying way was Pikmin
>>339730390
Time-limit is unlikable, imagine morrowind getting a game over screen after 5 ingame years, would be absolutely depressing getting when you are having a ball exploring the world.
![pikmin3_thumb[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/ALCImsJ.jpg "pikmin3_thumb[1].jpg")
hope you got all those ship pieces anon or you have to start all over
>>339730565
There's hardly enough shit to warrant searching for 13 years in Fallout 1, you can finish all the content the game has to offer in a very short amount of time.
>>339730565
If you came out of your hugbox, you'd notice you can do everything the game has to offer in half the time or less.
If time is a keypoint in the game, they shouldn't touch it.
In other hand, a game based on open world mechanics shouldn't have time limits.
>>339730584
Pikmin was way worse for the time limit.
Majoras Mask is another example, though its pretty integral to the gameplay so dont think that counts
>>339730584
The time limit in Pikmin 1 wasn't that much of a headache, if you were smart you could have a big lead ahead of the time.
>>339730737
>If you came out of your hugbox
Wow you are a real hardcore 4chan user, massive respect to you, elite gentleman.
>>339730661
I want to take my time and explore and complete everything I found. I think a few years went by.
I just played Arcanum. How similar is Fallout 1 to that game in terms of gameplay?
I know the graphics are close.
>>339731340
>you are a real hardcore 4chan user
t-thanks
>>339731340
Not that anon, but sure I can be a real hardcore 4chan user, it doesn't change the fact that you are a little bitch
>>339731460
Fallout writing is much better and the game is less combat-intensive
>>339731602
Love Fallout but I wouldn't call the writing much better
Arcanum has some great bits, like rape island
>>339730783
>pikmin wasn't integral
It's why pikmin 2 sucked.
>>339730584
>first playthrough
>doing badly at first but get the hang of it
>think I might actually get all the pieces
>one day left
>two different parts in two different locations
>>339731554
Damn you sure got me. Tell me how to become a tough internet videogaming badass like yourself. Bet you do speedruns as well.
>>339731727
>>339730757
>In other hand, a game based on open world mechanics shouldn't have time limits.
This.
A lot of people ITT have pointed out that you can see everything Fallout 1 has to offer within the time constraints, but the problem is that it's nearly impossible to actually do that unless you know exactly how to do it in advance (which, incidentally, exemplifies everything I dislike about the first two Fallout games).
I think that every RPG I've played with some sort of time limit has been improved by its presence.
>>339725975
It's fine in original FO1. The game barely has any missions that are cross-town and there isn't much exploration to do when all settlements can be put to your map relatively easily.
It's not Fallout 2. If there was a time limit in there, then it would be issue with the amount of NCR-Vault City-Reno-Den-Redding travel that takes up years.
>>339732514
Or anon. OR.
Hear me out here anon.
Or, maybe
Just maybe
Come on anon pay attention
MaybeYou could replay it
It's essential. For first time playing, you have no idea what to expect, and because you're on a timer to the day all your buddies die, you try to get shit done rather than wander around every single corner of an empty desert.
After playing, you realize it's practically impossible to run out of time.
>>339733313
This, people bitching about time restraints seem to be so short sighted that they actively forget about the fact that the Fallout series is built around replayability.
>>339730524
>>339730783
Pikmin wouldn't be a game without the time limit, removing the large time limit would give you unlimited days which would be effectively equal to eliminating the daytime limit because, this means that resource management within a limited frame of time, which is the theme of the game, becomes meaningless.
>>339727252
Interplay was very poorly managed studio, which came in the form of too little interaction from the publishers. Basically, this meant that there were two dozen projects going on with maybe five people working on them with little to no market appeal or quality control. But there was freedom.
Now the issue was that interplay had strong economic issues, and whenever a project would arise, it would be rushed to markets ASAP to pay for the debts and whatever. So, when Fallout 1 seemed prospective, the team was bumped in size and forced to quickly finish the game. The second one, despite being very close to its predecessor, was done with none of the original devs in the project for the whole time.
>>339725975
I wasn't the biggest fan of the timer when I originally played it, but it feels even worse to remove it entirely through a patch. I'd rather they have lengthened/altered the mechanics of the water/mutant timers instead ie, feeding bad intel to the Master through side quests, propping up Brotherhood skirmishing parties to slow their advance, etc.
On replays now though neither of them are really worth any consideration since I know where all the shit is. My only recent fuckup was peeking into Necropolis too early, and then wondering why everyone was smeared paste when I came back later.
Actually I installed mods that patched that stuff back in
Gives you a sense of urgency
You are a vault dweller, not bumfuck tribal or Bethesda's lost son
>>339725975
The 500 day limit would have helped ratchet up the tension if it was more clear the mutants are closing in on your base. As it is, it's just a rude surprise. They should have probably made that more explicit rather than removing it, but the patch works well enough.
>>339732297
>an half ogre
>>339733313
I shouldn't have to replay a game to know what I'm doing, I should be able to make informed choices the first time around.
The fact that you *have* to replay it to know how to do things right just proves my point: that the first two Fallout games expect the player to know everything in advance, rather than giving the player the means to figure things out the first time around.
>>339725975
I'm ok with both.
500 days is enough to finish all the content in the game while still reinforcing the idea that what you're doing is actually important (unlike almost every other RPG ever where you can be one day away from doomstay and still somehow spend several weeks doing sidequests and fingering your butthole), but if you just want to dick around with no pressure, removing it doesn't really harm the game as a whole so it's not like turning on infinite health or something.
>>339734675
>I should be able to make informed choices the first time around.
But you are able to do that, but FO1 and 2 don't hold your hand and you simply have to remember shit that needs to be done.
You forgot to who and where you gotta talk/go? Tough luck nigga.
>>339734675
>to know what I'm doing
Whether you make informed choices is up to you, you dumb fuck. The entire point is that you should be exploring in order to achieve a goal, rather than shitty mindless wandering around.
>>339734675
>the first two Fallout games expect the player to know everything in advance
No, they expect you to work within the restraints given to find out how to move forward, when you replay you can use the knowledge of your first playthrough to make faster decisions and see more of the world, not that you even need to do that for the first fallout game since you can go through it blind and find everything there is to offer.
>>339725975
It's garbage in an open world game with piles of side quests.
It's also not clear you're even on a time limit. Sure, the NPC says its urgent, but many games do that and then don't time you.
This sort of think does nothing to improve the game. At best you can argue it does not make the game significantly worse, but it in no way makes it better.
Will there ever be a post apocalyptic game were i can be a savage or have actual "survival" elements were I'm never rolling comfy.
I remember reading about "i am alive" and your character would hold up two characters for a can of beans or some shit, only to find out it was empty. But we all know how that game ended
>>339735189
>timer is literally in the pause screen
0/10 apply yourself
>>339735189
>It's also not clear you're even on a time limit
Maybe if you are a huge retard.
>>339725975
I'm okay with patching it out. I can understand someone enjoying the pressure of having a timer, but for me it kinda made me rush things here and there, especially if you don't know what to do and just waltzing around the world map and seeing the time go by.
I didn't know the exact time limit though, so that wasn't helping. Does the game actually tell you that? I don't remember.
>>339725975
I only recently played the first Fallout but I thought it was cool. 500 days is far more time than necessary to do every sidequest unless you're really overly farming the Crimson Caravan runs. 400 days you get from doing the Water Merchants (a fair trade since it gives you 250 days to do the water-chip quest instead) is a little tighter but still doable without toooo much need for worry, it added a nice sense of urgency to your character. I don't know if they do something in 2 similarly but I wouldn't mind it.
My first exposure to such a timelimit was the original Pikmin, which I always enjoyed. It's not hard to average 1 part a day, sometimes a lot more than one if you're clever (and doing so makes you feel all the better for managing your time).
Is there any other games with similar time limits?
>>339725975
>and how go you feel
>look at keyboard
Cramps?
>>339725975
>500 day limit
I'de panice ande probably do a speedy speedrune whiche ruinse my experience.
>>339735310
It does not say it on the inventory or the stats.
What fucking pause screens re you talking about?
Don't even recall ever opening another one.
>>339734934
>You forgot to who and where you gotta talk/go?
Nope, for an example of what I'm talking about let's take a look at The Glow
>Did you know to stop on an adjacent panel, apply rad-x, then proceed?
>Instant lethal doses of radiation poisoning. >Even if you expected the obvious radiation hazard you're not given a chance to prepare for it once you're there, you just had to know before you showed up
>Did you know to savescum during the RNG skill checks (which are a fucking terrible idea, by the way) because the game jumps time forward six hours without explicitly telling you every time you fail them?
>Rad-x wears off without you knowing or having a chance to prevent it, instant lethal doses of radiation poisoning.
>Bonus points for mandatory savescum horseshit.
>>339735007
The point is that you can't make informed choices because you don't know about the problems until they've already fucked you over.
>>339735683
wot
>>339726825
>content restored
What does this include? Is it included with a mod?
>>339736602
>>Did you know to stop on an adjacent panel, apply rad-x, then proceed?
The guard besides Cabbot outright warns you the Glow is sickly radiated and suggests taking Rad-X before going there, it's your fault for not looking more into the suicide mission you've been sent on.
>>Instant lethal doses of radiation poisoning. >Even if you expected the obvious radiation hazard you're not given a chance to prepare for it once you're there, you just had to know before you showed up
The radiation poison is hardly lethal upon arrival, even with 0% protection from it. It hurts but you're given time to take Rad-X before it kills you, and you have the chance to use RadAway while inside the Glow in case you took a bad hit (RadAway and Rad-X, incidentally, are also available inside the Glow itself)
>Did you know to savescum during the RNG skill checks (which are a fucking terrible idea, by the way) because the game jumps time forward six hours without explicitly telling you every time you fail them?
If you only have 60% in a skill, you have to deal with the fact you'll occasionally fail them, that's part of RPGs. You aren't forced to save-scum, you should live the hand fate dealt you and move on. 6 hours is practically nothing, and if it didn't take it away in the case you failed there'd be no negative aspect to failing.
>>Rad-x wears off without you knowing or having a chance to prevent it, instant lethal doses of radiation poisoning.
The item description should tell you how long it lasts, and even if it doesn't, the PipBoy gives you an instant alert the moment it stops and you're starting to take rads again (which, again, is what you have Rad-Away for)
>The point is that you can't make informed choices because you don't know about the problems until they've already fucked you over.
The problems CAN be seen in advance and prepared for though, you are warned and even if you are hit, there's ways to recover.
>>339725975
I like it, I know a lot of people hate it. I wish more games could have a time limit, makes stuff a lot more interesting.
i was just about to start fallout for the first time, any tips?
>>339737680
If you're used to Fallout 3/NV/4 combat, prepare for things to get a great deal slower / sluggish in Fallout 1 / 2 combat. Especially feels a bit slow later on when rats are harder to kill and there's a room full of them, but, keep in mind you aren't obligated to kill each and every living thing you come across.
The dialogue changes drastically depending on your INT or CHA, choices disappear if you're not smart/convincing enough to say those options, so if you're going for a game with full dialogue, try to have at least a 6 INT or a 6 CHA.
Don't get too attached to your companions: they don't level with you and if you try to take ones you get earlier on into more dangerous territory they'll likely perish.
Travelling between locations does take a good bit of time from your day counter, so, just keep that in mind of your first 150 day count-down and try to make the most out of each visit to each town.
>>339738235
*earlier on, not later on
>>339738235
thanks for that chief
>>339737680
>>339738235
Cha is a dump stat for Fo1, but is significantly more important for Fo2. Either way, Int is THE most important for skills and dialogue options.
Agi 9 if you're a combat character. 10 can be useful but there's a way to get a +1 in both games.
Taking Gifted and redistributing the skill points elsewhere is stupidly broken.
>>339737362
>The guard besides Cabbot outright warns you the Glow is sickly radiated and suggests taking Rad-X before going there
Given the way the overworld and environments in this game, I figured there would be some kind of room to use rad-x. I knew there were super mutants at Mariposa but that doesn't mean I should expect to fight them literally the second I arrive.
>The radiation poison is hardly lethal upon arrival, even with 0% protection from it. It hurts but you're given time to take Rad-X before it kills you, and you have the chance to use RadAway while inside the Glow in case you took a bad hit (RadAway and Rad-X, incidentally, are also available inside the Glow itself)
In my experience the radaway did very little to cure my radiation poisoning and getting to someplace where I could acquire more was impossible.
>If you only have 60% in a skill, you have to deal with the fact you'll occasionally fail them, that's part of RPGs. You aren't forced to save-scum, you should live the hand fate dealt you and move on.
RNG skill checks reward scumming more than careful investment of skill points, because skills can fail but savescumming always eventually works. I am so glad New Vegas fixed this shit. If you really don't think its objectively bad game design then nothing I can say will convince you and we may as well agree to disagree.
>The item description should tell you how long it lasts, and even if it doesn't, the PipBoy gives you an instant alert the moment it stops and you're starting to take rads again (which, again, is what you have Rad-Away for)
It doesn't matter how long the rad-x description says it lasts if the issue is that I don't even know time is jumping forward, and my pip-boy telling me that the rad-x wore off doesn't help if it comes up several hours after the fact at the end of a time skip.
time limits are an imperfect solution to the problem of games giving you some urgent quest, but then expecting you to spend forever doing errands for everyone you meet. if you don't like time limits then maybe you should stop crying that games are too linear when they don't give you options to put your mission to save the world on hold for a year so you can kill rats in basements.
>>339738821
>>339738235
Yeah, that was one thing I was going to mention, was that Agility might be your most important SPECIAL in 1 as far as combat goes.
Agility not only determines your AC, it determines your Action Point count. Your action points are used for everything in combat, from moving to shooting/swinging to inventory access. Aimed/burst shots take up more AP as well.
More action points let you move more, attack more, etc in a single turn, which is really helpful for a combat scenario. So perks that lighten the AP cost of actions, or Action Boy, are very useful.
>>339725975
I personally feel like the time limit gives you a much needed urgency but still gives you plenty of time to do shit. As for patching it, Its really up to you and I don't care if people patch it out, I personally never feel the need to especially since you can get rid of the time limit fairly quickly or at least extend to the point where it it will never be an issue
>>339725975
Q1 - I really wish people would be more willing to give mechanics like that a chance, the time limits are usually very generous.
Q2 - It should've added an option to remove the time limit rather than just forcibly removing it.
>>339739053
>Given the way the overworld and environments in this game, I figured there would be some kind of room to use rad-x.
I would say the very first moment you enter the Glow and see the radiation taking effect qualifies as that first room: if you take it quickly upon noticing it, the damage it does in that time can be fixed with the RadAway. As to its effect, it is supposed to work slowly over time (-25 an hour) but the rate at which it cures the rads is faster than the rate at which Rad-X will wear off and you accumulate more (Rad-X lasts for 24 hours before it wears off entirely). Also, both can be bought from a merchant in Hub (Vance) and by the doc in Boneyard.
>RNG skill checks reward scumming more than careful investment of skill points, because skills can fail but savescumming always eventually works. I am so glad New Vegas fixed this shit. If you really don't think its objectively bad game design then nothing I can say will convince you and we may as well agree to disagree.
I will admit I prefer NV's hard set limit more because it's not an issue that can be resolved with reloading saves over and over, makes the skill more valuable because there's no way to get around it except by investing in the perk. But the RNG I feel is a okay choice as well: I think it's on the player in this case to choose not to save-scum should he mess it up and choose to accept the results as you would in a tabletop game.
>It doesn't matter how long the rad-x description says it lasts if the issue is that I don't even know time is jumping forward, and my pip-boy telling me that the rad-x wore off doesn't help if it comes up several hours after the fact at the end of a time skip.
But by the time you've reached the glow you've completed more than half the game, I would figure by that point it'd be clear enough that you lose six hours with some of the skill checks (and, I believe the skill description itself tells you of this) and prepare for it against Rad-X's time limit.
You have 7 hours to beat System Shock 1 on Mission difficulty set on 3.
Made me afraid to wait and heal.
I personally like time limits in games, like Fallout 1, and Majora's Mask for example. I feel it helps the world build and motivate you to make things right.
>>339730257
>Now i'm playing fallout 4 with ultra realism mod
How do you achieve realism in F4 if almost all weapon animations are bullshit?
>>339728312
Tim is great
>>339735189
>Sure, the NPC says its urgent, but many games do that and then don't time you
Well many other games are shit.
That doesn't mean all other games need to be shit as well.
You are actually unaware of the 500 day time limit. The only limit you get to know, and get reminded about with a cutscene at least 2 times even, is the urgency to find the waterchip. Early in the game you can extend that time by asking people about the water chip and they'll mostly say "I don't know about that but there's water merchants in the Hub, they should know if anyone".
If you prioritize finding the chip over doing every single sidequest or finding all locations you will have a hard time not doing it within the limit. Simply roaming new adjacent places leads you to quests and NPCs that point you in the right direction. You're more likely to start over from your first time playing because of inexperience with the harsh and somewhat random combat and not putting decent amounts of points into agility.
There's no real downside to going for the mainquest as the other quests generally don't have a timed limit to complete. Therefore once you find the waterchip you can breath out a bit and do all those little things you didn't think you could. NOW there's a chance you might sleep to heal every little wound and circle every square on the world map until the time is out but I've yet to hear anyone do that. There was supposed to be a mutant army slowly consuming settlements to alert you to deal with that shit. I don't remember if the Restoration Mod added it but it's generally a superb mod for all the shit that was cut due to dev time constraints.
>>339740379
>I think it's on the player in this case to choose not to save-scum should he mess it up and choose to accept the results as you would in a tabletop game.
That's the thing though, in a lot of the other skill checks I didn't even need to savescum to pass them since I could just redo them over and over without any consequences. I just kept doing them until it either worked or became clear that it wouldn't work, adding a pointless layer of tedium to a skill check.
>But by the time you've reached the glow you've completed more than half the game, I would figure by that point it'd be clear enough that you lose six hours with some of the skill checks (and, I believe the skill description itself tells you of this) and prepare for it against Rad-X's time limit.
I didn't notice a time skip with any other skill checks, but then I didn't notice it at the glow either because the game didn't bother to mention it.
>>339726241
the game would be too easy if you could just farm endlessly
>>339742863
Shit I forgot
>Restoration Mod
That's only for Fallout 2. There's a more of a bug fix mod for Fallout 1 called "Fallout Fixt" that mostly cleans out stuff that never got fixed.
>>339732297
Still a good story
>>339726784
that was Fallout 2 you fucking retard
>>339743883
what are you talking about? also no
Moltovs are the most broken thing ever in survival. Like a grenade that has no timer or time to escape.
The fire killing you fast makes sense, but the actual bottle breaking killing you outright is broken as fuck.
Pretty much every Raider fight is praying they don't use moltovs. If they are at medium range and throw one it's an instant game over.
Granted, it works both ways and Moltovs fuck NPCs too, but they tend to at least survive the moltov itself breaking.
>Dead Rising 2
>Game where you're just meant to fuck around as much as possible until you finally get bored
>Billions of timelimits
So god damn retarded
Intimidating.
I keep putting it off because whenever I start it up I remember the timelimit.
>>339731460
Fallout is better. Arcanum gets so much praise because of the setting but the systems are shit.
>>339743192
IS it possible tro find the jews.. I mean the gnomes and kill them all?
>>339744869
The conspiracy can't be stopped. You'll have to settle with killing every gnome you see instead
>>339745225
I'll have this written down for my next arcanum run, but thanks for enlighting me.
Didn't even knew that it existed until someone told me about it. I'm fine with it, sometimes I even wish it would come back. It makes the game more roleplaying driven expirience. You have to find a water chip for your vault, you don't fuck around killing rats. Maybe even build some sort of morality system around it, fucking NPCs over extends time limit, etc.
I hate that RPGs are turning into single player mmo shitfest.
>play Star Control 2
>realize there's a time limit
>realize you've wasted way too much time to finish it
>quit game
shame because it's a 10/10 game
great
there shouldn't be a time limit in a role playing game anyway
