Now that the dust has settled, can we agree that this game is the weakest in the Souls series?
>>339668123
No, that was Dark Souls II
>le dust has settled
>shit opinion
Yup, it's a shitpost thread
>>339668123
Only because they milked the LE PHASE 2 mechanic dry. And the fact that the bosses' hp were so low
>>339668284
dark souls 2 had the coolest ad campaign, best looking bullshots, and coolest cover (at least in my opinion). just imagine if the game had actually lived up to that.
>>339668284
>>339668295
I actually liked 2>3, 3 Felt like it was trying to hard to be 1 mixed with bloodborne. I dont have any feelings about the game making me want to go back after my first playthrough.
1(with full expansions)>2 (with full expansions)> 3
>>339668123
Game was way too short, waiting for the DLC before I have a true opinion on it being the weakest. So far it is indeed the weakest in my opinion, only because lack of bosses compared to it's predecessors.
>>339668394
Almost
>>339668123
Any pics of how that fig looks in person?
>>339668664
>waiting for DLC before having an opinion
It's like you enjoy sucking From's cock for DLC. You should NEVER have to judge a game with DLC in mind. Either it's a good game or not. Doesn't matter if the DLC makes it "Better" like those Dark Souls II apologists arguments. Dark Souls II Is the weakest because it is shitty. DLC Does NOT change that.
Not the weakest but by far the easiest
>>339668123
fuckin britbong super version of the game came with that figure. What were they thinkinh.
>>339669002
The DLC for 2 was made by literal interns.
At least the world design is. Those repeating textures are just embarrassing.
If 3's DLC is even half of what Bloodborne's was , it will be great..
it still has the best bosses in the series, and the DLC is not even out yet
mostly everything else was just meme pandering to the DaS1 nostalgiafags with reused BB bullshit everywhere
>>339668749
Why you gotta make me sad again anon?
This is something Ill be upset about for years to come
>>339669002
sure anon, you can be accepted into our little secret club, no need to shitpost anymore
>>339668749
o shit
waddup
>>339669239
>nameless king is 10/10 difficulty
while i agree he was challenging, and definitely the most fun boss fight, I had way more trouble with Lothric and Lorian
>>339669239
gee, i wonder if it might be the easiest largely because we've all played like 2-4 games in the series already
aside from that fact i also think it's the easiest though. but part of it is that we're much better now, and the engine is better which matters.
>>339669239
You can't get accurate scales like this because there is no way in hell you can get actual numbers that would correlate what the difficulty actually is.
You would just get fuckin liars saying every boss is hard and fuckin dumbasses saying crystal sage was hard as dancer etc.
Hardest game is DS2 because there was a boss you couldn't summon for.
>>339669239
Nameless King, Pontiff Sulyvahn, Twin Princes, Champion Gundyr and Soul of Cinder are all harder than anything in dark souls, demons souls or dark souls 2 though.
I'm not even saying that as a person who had that much difficulty with dark souls 3, it's just that comparatively the bosses in those 3 games are far less mechanically complex, far less aggressive and far more telegraphed.
Rating the series in terms of how difficult I felt on the first playthrough, bloodborne would be the easiest, because I was used to the series, and it took the dlc for the game to really ramp up the challenge.
But, I recognise that from a mechanical perspective, it's also harder than the majority of dark souls 1, demons souls and dark souls 2.
As a whole, it's a much better game than 2, but all of it's improvements can't make up for the game being horrifically dull on later playthroughs.
>>339669353
>...
Go fucking kill yourself.
>>339669689
>far more telegraphed.
nah, dark souls 3 telegraphs by far the hardest. they used telegraphing as a core element and built around it, the way this series should be done.
>>339669689
you could summon for all of those, hardest boss in the series is Royal Rat Authority because it is the only boss you could not get buddies to help you out in.
>>339669924
>Royal Rat Authority
I wish I could get the memory of dark souls 2 deleted from my brain, and then have this directive implanted that i never play it.
I'd be like "man I bet dark souls 2 is so good, I gotta get around to playing it some day"
Royal Rat Authority. Why'd you make me have to remember that, man?
>>339669606
I played through all of the games apart from Demons just before I went through my blind playthrough of DaSIII, and the playthrough of DaSIII went just as smoothly as my playthroughs of the other games went, compared to Bloodborne which took me more than 3 hours to get to the second boss he first time.
>>339669801
Ornstein and smough, kalameet, manus, four kings are some of the widely considered harder bosses in dark souls
They telegraph for literally hours.
Compare manus's five hit combo, where he's practically stationary, has a wind up animation where he screams in the air and flaills for a while, which give the player a ton of time to do literally anything.
Compare that to pontiff's 6 hit combo, where he pulls his swords crossed very briefly and then engages in a mobile combo that requires the player to stay on his feet and not just get to a safe range.
The first three games are seriously outdated in terms of difficulty, I'm not sure if it's just notalgia or blindness.
Even fume knight comparatively gives you so many free hits after basically every attack, especially in the first phase, it's ridiculous.
>>339670069
bloodborne isnt a souls game and demands different things from the player. there's also no warming up for it, there is no game to practice that will make you better at it like when you went through souls games.
also demons souls is the second hardest one, or probably would be the hardest to a lot of people
I don't really like the visuals as much as the previous games. Even DaS2 at least had some diversity instead of just being gray city after gray city after gray city.
Also super damn linear compared to the previous games. About as linear as BB, but at least in BB, you could always waste some time in the Chalice Dungeons if you wanted, they would still progress your character.
The mana and ash estus system didn't make spellcasting nearly as fun as it was supposed to be and it just feels like you're gimping yourself by trading estus flasks while everyone else who plays melee puts a simple gem on offhand for their weapon arts. In addition, buying multiple amounts of the same spell actually mattered in the previous games, here they don't. And at least, with spell uses, you knew exactly how many times left you could cast your shit (before using an herb in DaS2). In DaS3, there's always leftover mana you wanted to use for other spells but you have to waste time instead drinking because you used a too powerful spell, which didn't happen in the previous games.
The bosses could use way more hp and damage than they had in the game and I feel the reason why it's like that is because you start with a low amount of estus split between normal and ash. In DaS1, you could always kindle your bonfire from the start to get more estus so bosses were balanced around that, and in DaS2 early on, you could just spam lifegems so bosses were also balanced around that. Here, they have to balance estus usage around normal estus and ash estus, also with very low amounts of estus shards at the start and if you don't explore properly, so to balance, fights become way too fucking short.
Difficulty wise it would go:
BB>DaSII>DaS>DeS>DaSIII
>>339670069
With Bloodborne though I felt the real difficulty hurdles were simply getting used to the new mechanics, the healing and parrying.
Once you were done with gascoigne and the blood starved beast, the game was incredibly easy from there one.
This was a combination of both the incredibly overpowered healing/dodging/parrying mechanics, and the slew of uninteresting, poorly designed and easy bosses after amelia.
>>339670193
>Even fume knight comparatively gives you so many free hits after basically every attack, especially in the first phase, it's ridiculous.
But Fume Knight has a shitton of hp and your character is slow as fuck. Also, you have ridiculous amounts of iframe right off the bat in DaS3 compared to DaS2, you have to invest levels to get the same amount of iframes.
>>339670296
this is correct if you count you constantly fighting a pro player for old monk, and DLC of course.
>>339670194
>there is no game to practice that will make you better at it
Dark Souls
>>339670239
>about as linear as BB
why would I bother reading your post when you clearly have no fucking clue what you're talking about
>>339670431
i see you've never played bloodborne. it doesnt really actually play a ton like souls beyond the basics.
>>339670296
Difficulty wise I felt:
Orphan of Kos>Defiled Chalice>DaS3>the rest of TOH>Brume Tower>DaS1DLC>the rest of the das2 dlc>DaS1>DaS2>DeS
>>339670412
>Also, you have ridiculous amounts of iframe right off the bat in DaS3 compared to DaS2
good. Tying I-Frames to a that that on paper made it seem like it was only for dual wielding was stupid
>>339670239
Am I the only one that got an N64 spooky vibe from DS2?
The textures and maps were really reminiscent of old N64 games in both graphics and level design and it was kind of spooky because of it, I don't have any negative memories of that game because of this.
Plus the PvP was at it's peak in that game since they dropped the ball hard in DS3.
I'm not a fan of how linear it is but it's definitely not the worst souls game.
>>339670531
>i see you've never played bloodborne
"no"
>>339670725
yeah i thought the textures were pretty much reminiscent of n64 games too.
i don't think das2 had a lead artist. the color palettes they used just simply don't work.
>>339670586
Only boss that was hard in DS3 was Nameless King. My brother who sucks at games only needed to summon at Dancer and he couldn't beat DS1 because he said "the levels are too hard"
I think on average people really overestimate the difficulty of souls games.
>>339668123
It's definitely the most underwhelming. It didn't try anything new or exciting, and relied too much on things that worked previously.
2 tried a lot of new things. Some of them were really bad, and others were pretty good.
3 felt like a big dlc for 1.
>>339670498
Show me how nonlinear BB is compared to DaS3 then. And in terms of bosses.
>>339670660
I don't see how it changes the view on the difficulty of the boss. Call it stupid, but I'd rather have some kind of roll system where I can't just spam B and be fine 90%, a system where timing your rolls actually matters.
>>339668123
holy shit do you ever stop?
>>339669689
I went the "wrong" way and basically did Pontiff as fast as possible, and I beat him on my first try. Same with Aldritch, although that definitely had some bullshit like having to run away from the arrows.
It's fucking easy, and people should feel bad for having any kind of trouble with it. The -only- reason DS3 is even remotely difficult is because a good % of bosses have a 2nd health bar that pops up that inflates the length of the fight.
>Abyss Watchers
>Twin Princes
>Soul of Cinder
>Nameless King
There is also an extreme amount of "bullshit" in Dark Souls 3.
>Pontiff duplicates himself
>Oceiros instant charge
>Getting teleported to Dancer immediately after killing Yhorm or Aldritch
>Aldritch and Lothric's massive number of soul arrows
>Aldritch's bow
>Crystal Sage constant Soul Spear Barrage (basically turns the fight into a DPS race)
>Gundyr's Kick
>Dragonslayer Armors shield bash
It's not "unfair" but it's just retarded to deal with. Aldritch is easily the most unfun fight because his attacks don't do anything except kill you if you didn't run away, which turns the boss fight into a waiting game.
>>339670913
relying on old things and having them work is a lot better than trying new things and having them fail. in a product i'm paying $60 for
underwhelming is feeling like a game is a work of fan fiction, like dark souls 2 feels.
>>339668295
This.
>>339671056
>Aldritch is easily the most unfun fight because his attacks don't do anything except kill you if you didn't run away, which turns the boss fight into a waiting game.
i thought aldrich was the best boss out of all 4 souls games. took me 26 tries to beat. truly felt like my greatest triumph ever in a souls game
did it with 0 magic/pyro and unupgraded estus with heavy weapons and armor type build.
>>339670498
>>339670972
Also, BB is still pretty damn linear compared to DeS, DaS1 and DaS2, so even if it was somehow less linear than DaS3, it's still not comparable to the previous games.
>>339670972
>but I'd rather have some kind of roll system where I can't just spam B and be fine 90%
that's what the stamina meter was for
>>339670902
Name a single boss harder than twin princes, nameless king or champion gundyr in dark souls 1.
Artorias is more simplistic, less varied, and less aggressive, manus is slow, telegraphed as fuck, and gives tons of free hits through his several hit the hand on the ground attacks, kalameet is slow and gives tons of free hits
Ornstein and smough have massive telegraphing, ornsteins charge attack, smoughs charge attack, are laughably easy to dodge, the second phases are comparatively much simpler as well.
When people say DS3 isn't as hard what they really mean is
>I have played every souls game, why aren't these games difficult any more
This is all from someone who thought the bosses in dark souls 3 felt less difficult, due to my experience, dark souls 1 would be by far the most difficult if I rated it on the first time experience.
>>339671314
both artorias and manus are harder than the 3 bosses you listed.
champion gundyr isn't even difficult. he telegraphs every. single. attack. by a large margin. i don't get all the difficulty with him, took me 3 tries
>Never have died to Gundyr, Watchers, Sully, Dancer or Dragonslayer once in any of my playthroughs
>STILL get my ass handed to me by Nameless King, no matter the build
He's literally the only hard boss
>>339671304
>that's what the stamina meter was for
And it didn't work out so well.
>>339668123
I've been out for a few months and there is already a new souls game?
Sad!
>>339671089
3 is a pretty solid game, but it's boring compared to 2.
I prefer when games try to mix it up, not necessarily in the core mechanics but all the extra mechanics. 2 had great covenants, spells, unique weapons, powerstancing, etc. In some areas it really built on the groundwork 1 laid, but in others it really fucked up.
In 3 it felt like they wanted to go the safe route and started from 1 again and were scared to try anything new because of the backlash.
It comes down to a safer, more solid game that ends up feeling pretty familiar, or a game that tries a lot more and fails along with it.
>>339668123
Is it easy because the gameplay and such is very refined by this point or was it just easier by design?
>souls fans debating over which is the hardest game
I enjoyed Demon's Souls, Dark Souls 1/2/3, and Bloodborne. They were all hard as shit. Fuck you.
>>339669239
> lorian and lothirc hard
what the actual fuck, i don't usually go to dark souls threads but did people seriously had trouble with those 2 ?
>>339671450
>And it didn't work out so well.
better than trying it to a stat that only benefits dual wielders
>>339671446
>secret boss is also the hardest boss
What did you expect?
>>339671529
all the gameplay changes in the world are for naught when you don't want to be in the world you're in and you aren't interested in going the places you're going or fighting the things you're fighting.
i will always feel that das2 was truly, in essence, a fan made mod that got sold as retail game.
>>339671620
Both.
>>339671620
the gameplay has the speed of bloodborne but enemies still attack dark souls slow
>>339671056
>I went the wrong way and basically beat the gaping dragon on my first try, I went the wrong way and beat quelaag on my first try, same with the capra demon, although that felt like bullshit with the two dogs
It's fucking easy, and people should feel bad for having any kind of trouble with it. The -only- reason Dark Souls is even remotely difficult is ecause a good % of the bosses have a bullshit mechanic that inflates the tediousness of the fight
>capra demon dogs
>taurus demon archers
>gaping dragon spellcasters
>seath cursing
>ornsteins glitchy teleports
>four kings being a 4 on 1 battle
>centipede demon and lava
>the bed of chaos and everything
>nito and his skeletons
>bell gargoyles getting another health bar
>ornstein and smough having a second phase what the fuck is up with that?
It's not "unfair" but it's just retarded to deal with. Bed of Chaos is easily the most unfun fight because it's attacks don't do anything except kill you if you didn't run away, which turns the boss fight into a waiting game.
>>339671314
Because you are a faster character in DS3 the game itself is easier. Like my brother chose knight and ran with that entire set through the whole game upgrading health and his weapon and managed to beat the game with that build.
You have to literally make the game harder by gimping yourself with the other stats, apparently you can beat the game with a longsword, knights set and all stats in vigor.
>>339669239
Oceiros should not be 6/10 for difficulty, 3 at most
>>339671663
people are continuously calling them one of the hardest bosses in 3. i don't get it either
great fight though. really at this point it seems horribly outdated that dark souls doesn't have a mode where i can just go fight bosses with any equipment i want etc
like if i wanted to take on the brothers at level 1 why do i have to take a level 1 char through the game just to be able to do it one time? let's go modern and unlock challenge modes and shit.
>>339671798
thing is long sword is top tier weapon in DS3
>>339671056
>Pontiff duplicates himself
He also gets a slower, much more telegraphed moveset with the double.
>Getting teleported to Dancer immediately after killing Yhorm or Aldritch
patched out, iirc
>Aldritch's bow
easy to avoid if you just run. He doesn't even always attack you while you're runnning
>Crystal Sage constant Soul Spear Barrage
dps races are fine, and Crystal Sage isn't even a very hard fight if you just sprint to the purple one
>Gundyr's Kick
Telegraphed and easy to avoid once you know he ends combos with it
>Dragonslayer Armors shield bash
telegraphed and easy to avoid once you know it happens
Bosses should have more unique moves that require you to change your playstyle, it makes them interesting
>>339669689
>Twin Princes
>hard
why do people keep saying this
>>339671446
>One-shot Nameless Kind twice
>Died several times to Gundyr, Watchers, Sully, Dancer
He is literally the easiest boss.
How the fuck did you people die to him!?
>>339671663
I don't think a 7/10 is meant to be hard but they can be a little difficult on a magic only build. The amount of times I got hit by a teleporting attack while trying to cast is the main reason I would die in the boss fight.
>>339671790
Dark Souls 1 is rife with bullshit as well, I never said it wasn't.
>>339671695
Better doesn't mean it was the right solution. Honestly, the DaS1 roll system would have been better.
>>339671750
See, that's the same thing I feel for DaS3. When I go to a gray city with a gray castle, then I go to another gray city with a gray castle, boy do I want to go to a forest. But DaS3 doesn't give me that option, while DaS2 does.
>inb4 Road of Sacrifice and Crucifixion Woods
They're barely a forest area and you know it.
>>339671056
>teleporting to Dancer
You can just walk away or Bones out.
>>339669924
>Royal Rat Authority
chaos fire storm says hello
>>339671435
Let's compare a manus move to a pontiff sulyvahn move:
>manus combo
>sits there for five minutes beating his chest
>proceeds to basically sit stationary and flails around for a bit
>then he hits you with his hand that he leaves on the ground for like an hour allowing the player to get a ton of fucking hits in
>pontiff sulyvahn
>readies his combo with a fast cross swords gesture
>proceeds to chase the player with the combo
>pirouettes round the player to prevent them circlestrafing
Champion Gundyr is far more difficult than artorias, he never leaves you open, and is basically never non-attacking in some form or another in his second phase.
In addition, his range attacks are far quicker to activate than artorias's, which gives the player much less time to heal, the kick, side punch, shoulder punches and fast activating charge sweep are both used faster and more often than artorias's comparative movesets.
Have you honestly played dark souls 1 recently?
>>339671858
totally agree, just add a boss rush mode or something, boss fights are some of the most fun parts in the game. Having to roll a new character and getting him trough the game for just to relive the experience of fighting the CHAMP is bullshit
>>339671798
you can beat the damn game and NG+'s at SL1 too. Gear doesn't matter; just gitting gud.
>>339672148
i'm sorry but i think champion gundyr was a straight up easy boss. like straight up not hard. i dunno how anyone gets hit by his attacks after a few times
of course i haven't played das1 recently, why would i?
>>339671798
The harder dark souls bosses are mechanically less complex, mechanically less aggressive, more telegraphed, and generally slower than the harder dark souls 3 bosses.
I don't really get your point.
Comparing something like manus to nameless king or champion gundyr just seems laughable to me, he so much slower.
>>339672148
Artorias is a fucking joke, he's one of the bosses you can sit behind a shield and never take damage. You can't do that with Gundyr because of the increased stamina drain on shields in Dark Souls 3.
Gundyr's kick is basically bullshit because he can almost 100-0 you if you get caught in the knockup into a kick. The kick is just a way to elongate the fight in most circumstances because it reduces the window you have for damage.
>>339672236
dude imagine how fun it would be going level 1 chars on boss attack where you have to beat all bosses in a row
can you imagine the hype of watching streamers actually beat nameless king...not getting hit 1 time by any of the last 10 bosses or so
but i feel like they have no desire to take advantage of this when i'd literally be happy if they just made boss fights: the game as their next game
>>339672148
All these comparisons and you forget the most important part: the way your character controls. THAT is why the DaS1 bosses are harder. Even if Champion gives you less openings than Artorias, it doesn't matter because ultimately, your character in DaS3 is faster than DaS1 and takes less damage from Champion than Artorias.
>>339670007
RRA was fine though bc beating it unlocked best covenant.
Or was RRA the huge retard rat at the end of the Doors of Pharos?
It's the fact that most of the bosses can be countered by shields that makes the game easy.
>my fucking face when I didn't beat a single boss solo in my playthrough
>mfw practiced each boss 20+ times as a summoned phantom before trying on my own
>mfw 90% of my boss fights were won by magic spamming with phantoms
get mad nigs
>>339668123
DaS3 was massively underwhelming. It felt like a really half-assed action game, with really bad enemy AI and for too little content.
At first I kept trying to justify why I wasn't playing it, making up excuses for work, or whatever. In the end I realized that the game was just really shoddily made.
Too many cathedrals, too many castles, too much wanna-be Bloodborne without actually being like Bloodborne or Dark Souls 1/2. The game really felt like a cash grab to me in a lot of ways.
>>339668628
This
2 felt original, and a lot of weapons were viable. In III of you don't use a fast weapon you're gimping yourself. Not even talking about PvP.
>>339672461
Not really, the controls still value the players ability to dodge a telegraphed attack sequence, this is the same in dark souls 1 and 3.
The difference is that in 3 you are required to navigate more complex and challenging sequences.
Which is why it's far more difficult game fundamentally.
>>339672659
>Not really
yes really. not him but the controls are an order of magnitude more response in dark souls 3. that's why you have to do harder patterns. not rocket science
>tfw I literally beat Dark Souls 3 only dying 1 time.
The only time I died was when I took a soul spear to the face from lothric at literally point blank range.
That's it.
Dark Souls 3 was the shittiest, and I do mean shittiest game to come out this year.
>>339672574
You mean, like DeS, DaS1 or 2?
>>339671314
4 kings
>>339669239
>Crystal sage that high
Lmao.
>>339672325
>of course I haven't played DaS1 recently
Because you would realise just how simplistic and easy the dark souls 1 bosses are by comparison.
It's literally "circlestafe" and wait for an incredibly easy telegraphed attack, the game.
No one can say a damn thing about DS3 having any sort of difficulty... your fucking roll doesn't even change unless you cross the fatroll threshold and you have assloads of i-frames.
This shit is the most casual game in the series by a huge margin. And yet fags still summon 3 phantoms for every single boss fight.
>>339672579
why would we get mad? youre the one that cheesed the game for yourself. i feel bad for you son
I honestly had more fun in ds2. 3 feels like it's missing something. Feels kind of bland, like there's no real life to it. I think the stages in 3 feel the most like levels instead of a cohesive world.
>>339672857
>6
>high
>>339672574
>Abyss Watchers can be parried and backstabbed
>even in second phase
Come the fuck on FROM. You could easily make the watchers a GOAT fight:
>up the hp and dmg
>remove bs and parries
>let extra watchers spawn during second stage, but don't make them fight each other
There, it's a 4Kings tier fight. Swap the order to have Aldritch or Yhorn earlier, because they're easy as fuck anyway, so Watchers can be later and much harder
>>339669239
considering gundyr is harder than anything in 1, 2 or des, would you agree that every boss in those games are at least below a 5?
>>339672348
your character in ds2 functions mechanically worse as well being slower in everything even stamina regeneration.
The enemies are more aggressive and have more combos because your character is faster too.
Thing is things get easier when they are faster and more responsive as well, plus fucking vigor being a ridiculously broken stat in this game combined with a shield is ridiculous.
>>339672659
>Not really, the controls still value the players ability to dodge a telegraphed attack sequence, this is the same in dark souls 1 and 3.
With less iframes, slower stamina regeneration, more damage taken, less healing options, slower recovery after rolls to attack, slower attacks so you can get hit more easily while attacking, Vigor scaling lower than the craziness in DaS3 with Ember, slower estus healing, can't stun a boss to get a free riposte which gives time to heal... It's like you didn't even play the game.
>>339672893
And I had 80+ hours played and went into NG+ at SL121 ;^)
>>339672887
>tfw this game needed something to set it apart.
I really think Dark Souls 3 just needed to be more expansive and have towns.
Not this bullshit hub. I've had a hub for fucking 3 other games, I want some semblance of a WORLD. I want to see smaller settlements, evne if they were just majula sized strewn throughout the world.
I couldn't give less of a shit about difficulty, but when I've played this game 4x before then I just can't get into it.
>>339672795
Yes, but they're much more useful in boss fights than the previous games.
>>339672946
Should be 2 or 3.
It's rated the same as Sulyhvan.
>>339673006
>less healing options,
Actually, erase that one since it's completely false with bonfire kindling and humanity.
>>339672974
Why does everyone say Gundyr is hard?
He's "roll out of combo range to win: the boss"
>>339672659
>Which is why it's far more difficult game fundamentally.
DaS3 is extremely easy though. The roll goes so far, so fast, with so little lag, and stamina cost, that you can just i-frame into attacking everything mercilessly with almost zero punishment.
My friend never got passed the Pursuer in DaS2, but he beat DaS3 with little effort, and I don't think I died more than 5 times on any one boss, save Nameless King and the ridiculous hitboxes on the Cursed Oak.
DaS3 was almost brainlessly easy. There was nothing complex about it.
>>339672985
And yet dark souls 3 is also the worst example of "incredibly slow boss with tracking that will die by any player competent enough to cirlestrafe" for the majority of the single player content
The dlc's hardest fight is the fume knight, and he gives an incredibly high amount of openings to attack, with wolnir tier recovery periods.
>>339673097
Sully is equally as easy.
>>339673170
>DaS3 was almost brainlessly easy. There was nothing complex about it.
You've just described every souls game then.
>>339673150
>why does everyone say "x" boss is hard, they're "roll out of combo range to win: the boss"
>>339673006
And yet the most important thing, the incredibly slow, dull and mechanically less complex design makes them far easier in just about every way.
This thread seems to be filled with people who haven't actually played dark souls recently, because it's actually weird how simplistic it feels.
I feel like everybody's being a fucking hipster or nostalgiafag with this game. That, or they're PvPfags.
This game plays better than both Dark Souls 1 and 2 and has the best gameplay so far out of the three Dark Souls games.
You people are out of your fucking minds, I swear to god.
>This thread
>116 replies
>39 posters
>>339673123
3 actually has the least healing options
>DeS: grass everywhere
>1: 20 estus, humanities
>2: 12 estus, crystals fucking everywhere
>3: 15 estus
>>339672913
>I think the stages in 3 feel the most like levels instead of a cohesive world.
DaS2 feels more like levels instead of a cohesive world than DaS3. With that said, DaS3 suffers from being just a jumble of setpieces put together and surrounded by empty mountains because "le lands of the lords are converging XD". At least, even if the connections in DaS2 didn't make sense, there was a map of the world which made the continent seem large, so you could just pretend that you travel a large distance each time you get in those tunnels or elevators.
>>339671639
>They were all hard as shit.
sasuga scrub dickwraith shitter
I'm playing through it right now and I'm enjoying just as much as the previous games.The only thing I haven't really liked so far was the Yhorm boss fight. Having to use a specific weapon was such a stupid gimmick and felt out of place. I had to look up what to do after I couldn't find a weak spot.
>>339673423
When you've played 2 amazing games that felt new and fresh (Demon's Souls, Dark Souls) then 2 games that were fairly derivative and imo lesser quality (I didn't like Bloodborne and feel it's incredibly, incredibly over rated) then you "finish" the series with another derivative gmae that doesn't do anything interesting or unique, then yes, I feel like it does deserve the heightened scrutiny.
>literally the same boss but easier because shields exist
Should've given them a Gundyr kick or something to stop shielding
>>339673386
>And yet the most important thing, the incredibly slow, dull and mechanically less complex design makes them far easier in just about every way.
>This thread seems to be filled with people who haven't actually played dark souls recently, because it's actually weird how simplistic it feels.
It's actually weird how much you completely ignored my comment while still talking about it.
>>339673386
>You've just described every souls game then.
Earlier Souls game you had to actually learn a boss. DaS3's combat amounted to some haphazard hybrid of DaS1 and BB, which amounted you being able to roll non-stop until you stagger the boss with rolling attacks and get a free ripost.
That and Estus being instant made the game baby-tier. Any mistakes you did make, were easily remedied by the instant Estus that the bosses and enemies really had no way to counter.
At least in earlier games you had to plan out and wait to see when to heal, and rolling a half-dozen times into a full attack chain wasn't remotely possible.
>This thread seems to be filled with people who haven't actually played dark souls recently, because it's actually weird how simplistic it feels.
I feel like you haven't actually played the earlier games at all, so this comment is painfully ironic.
>>339673881
>Any mistakes you did make, were easily remedied by the instant Estus that the bosses and enemies really had no way to counter.
Champion Gundyr uses his halberd downslash everytime you heal to try to counter it. The problem is, you heal more damage than he does anyway.
>>339672025
>Posting lewd pics to get attention.
go fuck yourself.
The dragon is the only annoying thing in that fight.
>>339668123
yes
>>339673625
Really?
Because dark souls 3 presented it's game world fairly well to me.
The constant overarching view of lothric castle, the fact that you can see every single outside location from vordt's room in high wall, the constant references between areas, undead settlment in irithyll, the giants tower in farrons keep and cathedral of the deep, farrons keep from irithyll, archdragon peak from irithyll dungeon and irithyll, smoudlering lake to irithyll, archdragon peak having view of irithyll and lothric castle beyond the clouds, the three fires in farrons keep being present in other areas, the bridge connection between farrons keep and undead settlement being a noteworthy moment.
By contrast, Dark Souls 2 feels like an absolute abandonment of this type of design, with jumbled levels all over the place and nonsense references.
Like Majula being 20 steps above forest of the fallen giants, where you actually go under majula and you are suddenly in an open sky forest, it makes no fucking sense.
In dark souls 3 they actually explain the references between areas as well, cathedral of the deep, aldrich, irithyll, farrons keep, undead settlement, profane capital, irithyll dungeon
Whether it's explicit or more subtle, as with archdragon peak, oceiros or the sunlight altar, or the smouldering lake area being a warground directly underneath irityhll, it really added to the world consistency.
>>339669239
i would not put lothric and lorian as hard as soul of cinder, then again i used dancers enchanted sword with which the l1 slides right under lorians strikes so i didnt even have to roll
>>339673881
Bosses now instantly react to your estus. They'll attempt to close the gap if you estus out of their range. Same with most enemies
It doesn't fix estus being practically instant, but it's not as unpunished as you say. You still have to be careful because bosses can just deal that damage straight back
>>339674065
>Champion Gundyr uses his halberd downslash everytime you heal to try to counter it. The problem is, you heal more damage than he does anyway.
That's what I mean by no counter. The bosses in DaS3 have literally no ability to compensate for instant Estus.
>>339669239
>crystal sage
>as hard as pontiff
>harder than old demon king
>as hard as aldrich
>as hard as dancer
>oceiros not way lower than them as well
shit list
I've played every game twice except DS3 which I have yet to play a second time.
Dark Souls > Demon's Souls > Dark Souls III >/= Bloodborne > Dark Souls II
They're all good.
>>339669689
ornstein and smough and manus put ALL of those listed bosses to shame as far as difficulty goes
those bosses being hard to cheese doesnt make them hard
just dont cheese nigger
>>339674247
When you look at a level flowchart, DS2 and 3 are pretty similar in terms of design. They spent more time in 3 making sure the world fit together properly, but it's still a very modular way of designing it.
It's certainly smart to make it modular, since if you don't have time to finish an area you can just cut it and you don't get shit like Lost Izalith, but you end up being very linear between areas and well below ds1 tier world design.
>>339674394
Pontiff, Demon King Aldrich and Dancer aren't hard at all, no matter the build, unlike Oceiros and Sage
>>339673881
Yes, because with lothric and lorian, if you just try to dodge around you can literally just instantly know the bosses moveset, when they teleport into the various combat positions, you immediately know exactly what attack they will use, you know that they are going to get into a charge. You can just sit there and drink estus, because the moment they move, you already know every single move they are going to do for the next 10 attacks, why even bother? A child could do this.
Meanwhile for manus, when he slams his fist onto the ground, leaving it there for 5 seconds, you can't be sure, you have to "wait" gauge time, get used to the fight, see what's gonna happen, be sure.
>>339673753
You're comment is utterly retarded that's why. "hur dur slower attacks mean I'm more likely to get hit than faster ones".
That makes literally no sense, other than for delayed attacks, which were almost not even present in dark souls 1, being features in the later games.
>>339674247
>Like Majula being 20 steps above forest of the fallen giants, where you actually go under majula and you are suddenly in an open sky forest, it makes no fucking sense.
There's only two locations that don't make sense geographically. Iron Keep, and No-Man's Wharf.
You don't go under Majula to go to the Forest of Giants, not even close, so I don't know wtf you're saying with that. You open a gate, go down into a long cave that opens into a small stream, then got up a 4-5 story tower. You never go more than fifty feet "down", and never in any direction that would send you under Majula.
Plus all the "connected" shit in DaS3 was literally "lol time and space is screwed up here." Which is the exact same excuse they used in DaS2.
>>339671858
yes, i want to duel the champ in the champs gear
>>339674560
>ornstein and smough
>easy and slow
>difficult
top kek
>>339671056
>pontiff duplicates himself
if pontiff didnt duplicate himself
and stayed the same unrelenting beast that he is in phase one the whole fight
it would be far harder than nameless king
>>339674096
annoying? maybe
hard at all in any way? no
1 or 2 combos and the dragon drops
>>339674686
>Plus all the "connected" shit in DaS3 was literally "lol time and space is screwed up here." Which is the exact same excuse they used in DaS2.
Wait, what? Which areas did that? Don't remember that at all aside from Untended Cemetery which is in a bit of a unique situation compared to any other area in a Souls game
>>339671913
>patched out, iirc
That happened to me just a couple weeks ago.
It was pretty weak in some parts, but this part was god tier
Is "now that the dust has settled" a meme or something? I'd be rich if I had a dollar for every time I've seen a thread start with this shit.
>>339674934
>Gundyr, Dancer, Sully and the fucking Watchers
>hard in any way
>>339673716
im gonna be debating with myself over lady maria or the abyss watchers being a better fight all night now
thanks anon
>>339675020
>Is "now that the dust has settled" a meme or something?
it has been for a long time. It's used to start shitposting threads.
Like this one
>>339668749
I WANT MY FUCKING DYNAMIC LIGHTING MIYAZAKI
YOU LYING FUCKING CUNT
>>339674686
>drangleic castle - shrine of winter tunnel, drangleic castle literally changes angle by like 60 degrees
>no man's wharf is underneath heides tower of flame despite being at sea level, it is also to the right of it, despite the cliffs being to the left of heides
>earthen peak-iron keep
>majula-fofg
>aldia's keep and dragon aerie transition has literally no views of massive spiralling rock spires despite these being so prominent from up the shrine area
>huntsmans copse existing in a tiny alcove on non existant space time bewtween a giant cliff face into the sea and majula
>things betwixt having massive archtree like structures despite being in a tiny cave
>shrine of amana existing in a thick swamp area despite drangleic castle being surrounded compeltely by mountains
HURR DURR IT'S FINE
In dark souls 3 that actually justify it by way of referring to the games locations in the games story and plot in significant ways, and you can literally see every single outside location from high wall up near vordt
>>339674560
>slow and slower
>manus, father of telegraphing every attack for 5 seconds
both are about as mechanically complex as fucking iudex gundyr.
>>339674247
Did... you even read my post? I said DaS3 is more cohesive in the sense that everything connects properly, like:
>The constant overarching view of lothric castle, the fact that you can see every single outside location from vordt's room in high wall, the constant references between areas, undead settlment in irithyll, the giants tower in farrons keep and cathedral of the deep, farrons keep from irithyll, archdragon peak from irithyll dungeon and irithyll, smoudlering lake to irithyll, archdragon peak having view of irithyll and lothric castle beyond the clouds, (...)
I also said something among the lines of:
>Like Majula being 20 steps above forest of the fallen giants, where you actually go under majula and you are suddenly in an open sky forest, it makes no fucking sense.
What I said the problem was is that there's no reason for DaS3 to be connected as such. Why is the catacombs of a kingdom directly connected to the Abyss Watcher's room (and an area belonging to Farron's Undead Legion which lays right under the giant bridge of another kingdom) and another kingdom that lays on top of another kingdom? Why do Aldrich's servants have to pass through Farron territory to go from the Road of Sacrifice to the Cathedral of the Deep? How the fuck did Aldrich even go from the Cathedral of the Deep to Irithyll if the only way to it is through the catacombs guarded by the Abyss Watchers? Why are there giant cliffs leading to nothing in Undead Settlement and Cemetary of Ash? Why is the rest of the game just giant empty mountains?
I feel like, in an effort to make the game connect to each other, they had to take all the levels they had, compact them in a big ball of land and call it "the world", using the convergion of the lands as an excuse to do that. At least in DaS2, the map of the world made the game feel huge, so there was place to make each level make sense in its own area even if the connections didn't make sense.
>>339674652
>Yes, because with lothric and lorian, if you just try to dodge around you can literally just instantly know the bosses moveset, when they teleport into the various combat positions, you immediately know exactly what attack they will use, you know that they are going to get into a charge. You can just sit there and drink estus, because the moment they move, you already know every single move they are going to do for the next 10 attacks, why even bother? A child could do this.
You don't know, but it doesn't matter. You just keep rolling or sitting behind a shield until you DO know. Why would you attack them otherwise?
You're so safe at all times in DaS3 compared to other Souls games, including BB, that you can just roll around until you get a feel for the boss, and then attack. If you die, it's because they might do something you didn't see, but unless you have Alzheimers, it's not as if there's a massive timing requirement for each attack like there was in earlier games, since, as said earlier, rolling costs almost nothing and it goes so far and so fast that you can get out of almost any situation unharmed.
Add to the fact that a lot of bosses just swing wildly and blindly off into a corner for at least one of their combos, and the instant Estus, and you have a combat style that favors just rolling around blindly scoring 1-2 hits until their heal bar empties.
>>339674835
But that would make him even more open to parries, making him much easier than he already is
>>339674247
>that axe going out of AP
it's the little things
>>339674934
Depends on your build and weapons you have upgraded until that point, I always had trouble hitting the head and sometimes couldn't get away quickly enough and got caught on his fire breath.
>>339674686
The locations around King's Road overlap
You should be able to see the towers of Dragon Aerie from the castle (and probably most other locations, they're fucking huge)
The path to Heide's Tower is through the mountain, but when you're there the entrance literally isn't connected to the mountain at all
The cells before Lost Sinner in Lost Bastille are above the boat you travel there on, despite both being at water level. You can actually see the cells from the boat
There's a lot of little inconsistencies in the game
In 3 they're all smashed up, but they're all correct relatively. (At least it seems so more than 2, but we won't know for sure until the map viewer)
>>339674638
oceiros is easy as fuck, did a full arcane build in bloodborne, was the easiest fight in the game for me
and crystal sage? the only tough thing is finding him. did it first try on my pyromancy run, did it first try on my dex run, did it first try on my quality run, i only died once to oceiros on my pyromancy run and not once at all on the others
easiest shitters in the whole game that werent gimmicks
crystal sage is so easy that he comes back later as a normal enemy in the grand archives
>>339675167
by comparison
>b-b-b-bbbut
I'd wager money that if you were to average % deaths to bosses in all Souls games (Only counting completed runs), Capra Demon and Ornstein&Smough would have the highest kills counts
>>339668664
Fuck the DLC ,Should have already been in the game plus it was shit and i'm glad i didn't buy it
>>339668749
did softs turn out anything like this?
>>339675319
>Shield and drop attack
>Having high kill counts
>>339674764
easily one of the harder fights in the series, you say that like you never fought them without cheese
>>339675225
>parrying a boss fight
i dont want to ruin the boss fight by cheesing
>>339675036
relative to dark souls 3 they are, considering the gundyr you are referring to is the champ
bretty easy for a souls game though
>>339675316
A better view
>>339675238
the heads hitbox is fucky, but not sure how you ever get caught by fire
>>339675319
As someone who's played through Dark Souls like a dozen times, Capra is still the only boss the consistently kills me
He's not difficult, but the fight is decided literally 2 seconds in. If you don't time your first roll properly you're fucked straight away by the dogs
>>339675562
Another.
>>339674998
What did you guys think of pic related? I'm curious.
>>339675463
No, everything they did was reworked after it was found that it wouldn't be able to run on consoles at the time.
>>339675562
>NK is banished
>doesn't even go to a different country or continent
>stays within 20 miles of AL
>>339671639
>>339673637
There was a third image to this set. Really concluded the whole thing nicely.
>>339668123
Is it though? Wasn't II poo poo?
>>339673535
>3
>Estus, faith, rings, and embers
Yes, the piss filters everywhere and mute color palette ruins the aesthetic that das1 had with it's dark atmosphere yet vibrant colors.
Game is linear as fuck and there are no surreal locations like Ash Lake.
>>339675701
oh man dat quality
>>339675557
>The most high risk move in the game
>cheesing
Pick one
The only thing I'm getting from this thread is that Souls franchise sucks ass
>>339675557
Ornstein and smough give the player a ridiculous amount of openings, are weirdly non-aggressive and have gigantic telegraphing.
By comparison, Champion gundyr has incredibly quick telegraphing, and sporadic mix ups in his attack patterns, and uses range fantastically and quickly to rarely ever let the player heal.
Even comparing them difficulty wise is laughable to be honest, Champ is leagues ahead.
>>339675785
>baiting the same attack that is easily parriable over and over
>the most high risk move in the game
>>339675785
>easy as balls to conistently land
>chips away a fifth of the bosses health
>not cheesing
it degrades the fight into a short QTE
>>339675618
Idk. The only thing I know it's that I got caught by it many times, I meant that huge aoe attack
No. It is objectively the best Dark Souls game.
>>339675769
Untended Cemetary, Kiln of the First Flame, and Nameless King's arena are all pretty ethereal
>>339675557
>you say that like you never fought them without cheese
define "cheese" retard. is pure melee cheese? maybe fat roll is cheese too? sl1 cheese? ng+7?
they're easy as fuck, remove your shit stained goggles.
>>339675842
>By comparison, Champion gundyr has incredibly quick telegraphing, and sporadic mix ups in his attack patterns, and uses range fantastically and quickly to rarely ever let the player heal.
And does no fucking damage. And is a single person to track instead of two.
>>339675687
I thought it was just alright. Would've been better if it was more than just like three rooms.RIP Giant Blacksmith ;_;
>>339668123
>weakest in the Souls series
Not when 2 exists.
DaS > DeS > BB (with DLC) > DaS 3 > DaS 2
DaS 3 has the potential to move up one or two notches depending on how the DLC goes.
>>339675842
All I know is hat I almost always get stuck at O&S for a good 5-6 attempts, even on repeat runs
I killed Champ my second try on my first run without too much difficulty
>>339675842
champ is easy as fuck
i died to him one time ever because of his stunlock combo
you are much faster in dark souls 3 than you are in dark souls, dark souls 3 is more like bloodborne with the pace of the game
i can get hit 5 times in a row by champ
use my 100 i frames and infinite rolls to just roll away and INSTANTLY heal to full health
>>339675997
Yeah got disappointed when the area to the right of the boss fight was closed.
>>339675927
just dont trigger it, he only does it if you are under him
its not made to be dodged
>>339676074
>DaS 3 has the potential to move up one or two notches depending on how the DLC goes.
I seriously hope it does. I wonder if it's still going to be endgame content for the DLCs. I hope not, I want something else to do instead of just being stuck in one path for the entire game.
>>339676074
>DeS > BB
dropped
>>339672956
mm yeah i actually agree with this except for spawning more watchers, i hate shit like that. but i was kinda disappointed that this wasnt a late-game fight because i feel like it would've been a lot better. definitely one of the best fights from the game
>>339676074
DaS3>DaS>BB>DaS2>DeS
I don't really get the fascination behind demons souls nowadays.
>>339675886
>chips away a fifth of the bosses health
This never happens unless you are overleveling
>>339668123
Not at all
dont get me started senpai i will straight up tell you your opinions shit
>>339675965
what do you consider hard in dark souls
nameless king?
you mean dragon that dies in 10 seconds and guy that repeats the same left right left right combo until you break his poise and kill him
>>339676149
Oh that explains it, I always stayed right next to his neck, almost below him, thanks for the tip.
>>339676291
i first fought sully at level 40 with a +2 irithyll straight sword and default rest of gear
after a few easy parries
i quickly realized how easy the cool ass looking boss would be if i cheesed him like that, i boned out of the arena and ran back in to fight him fair
>>339676360
i had the same problem at first, but once i figured out what triggers the fire, the dragon phase stopped being a problem
>>339676336
what do you consider hard?
>maneaters
you mean oh shit, time to sit in the fog wall eaters?
>flamelurker
you mean the king of running into a pillarlurker?
>manus?
you mean the ape that leaves his hands on the ground to hit for centuries
>ornstien and smough?
you mean telegraph and slow?
>fume knight
you mean fume "i'm going to leave myself open for 5 seconds after every attack" knight?
>darklurker
you mean the dies in 10 seconds by flames lurker?
>ebrietas
you mean slam my head in the ground oh god I'm so retarded please help?
>orphan of kos
you mean, shit familia, just hit my back and I'll die for you
>
>>339676220
>>339676285
I understand if you think it's aged but if you play it again you may have your appreciation for it renewed. It's a fantastic game and arguably the best in the whole series when it comes to environments, and maybe bosses.
>>339676682
what i get from this is that you cheese every fight you can
>>339676662
I never thought about it, just imagined it was like any other attack and he would use it from time to time.
>>339675768
>faith
every game
>rings
most games
>embers
only work when you're unembered (or whatever the fuck the term is now)
>>339675716
Do you not know what "transitory lands of the lords" means?
>>339675701
Oh god, that hurts to look at
>>339671056
>Pontiff duplicates himself
>Oceiros instant charge
>Getting teleported to Dancer immediately after killing Yhorm or Aldritch
>Aldritch and Lothric's massive number of soul arrows
>Aldritch's bow
>Crystal Sage constant Soul Spear Barrage (basically turns the fight into a DPS race)
>Gundyr's Kick
>Dragonslayer Armors shield bash
None of this is 'retarded' to deal with. I can't believe you're complaining about Crystal Sage of all things.
Dragonslayer Armour's most threatening ability is not his shield bash and, quite frankly, if you decided to whack his shield a 2nd time after getting smacked in the face after the first, you deserved it.
Fuck even the Lothric knights with shields have taught you to rotate the opposite direction by this point in the game.
>>339668123
Yes
It tried to be everything great about bloodborne and everything fun about dark souls but failed
>>339668284
Demon souls feels
>>339671663
They're not really fun to fight at a low soul level (<SL30). Lorian has too much HP as does Lothric when you enter phase 2. It results in multiple Lorian deaths because you can't DPS Lothric down fast enough with a +1/+2 weapon.
>>339676336
i didn't consider anything in dark souls 1 hard. in fact it was my first game and no boss killed me more than twice, i was left wondering what the big deal was about the difficulty. if i were to rate them on how hard i found them i would place them as such:
TOH/Defiled Chalice > Lost Crowns = DS3 > BB > DS1 > DS2
>>339670193
That's the thing with rating bosses: it's too subjective. O&S was a fucking joke as a sorcerer on my first playthrough yet Gwyn gave me the most trouble which many melee characters laughed at.
>>339669239
Difficulty means shit all in this one because your build determines the difficulty peaks that you'll face. Lobosjr has shown that Pontiff and Nameless are complete jokes with a bow while dying a dozen of attempts on Lothric.
I think it is the game that nails the best the replay value/boss difficulty thing in the whole series, but the overall replay value is dragged down by linearity.
Also there are no bosses with the cheap "gigantic HP pool because lol it's hard" trick. You win most fights fair and square. If you compare them to the fuckhuge healthbar of Orphan (but also quite a handful of BB bosses) and the cheap hitbox of Ebrietas', charge, it is an improvement.
