What went wrong?
How it was even possible to fuck up so badly?
It was okay, just nothing special.
Motb was goat
The animation and art style are shit compared to the first Neverwinter
>>339580269
I think the graphics killed it for me. Looked so unpleasant and nothing like NvN 1 I wasn't able to get past first location before convincing myself the game is bad and uninstaling.
NvN 1 was so fucking great, unbelievable how good it turned out.
>>339580371
>It was okay
I disagree, game was garbage without any good parts. Even keep was pretty bad
>>339580269
Obsidian.
Man, this is possibly my favorite game ever.
>>339580719
>implying that the trial wasn't some fantastic shit
>>339580269
I still have not finished this after all these years, because campaign was so boring. I got Mask of the Betrayer too, but don't want to start it before finishing main game
>>339580830
>"God tier" diplomacy master will fail if you allow him to speak no matter how many evidence you find
>Same result, it doesn't matter if you win or not
>You forced to go and search evidence if you want to "win" and can't just get away with high CHA
Just things from top of my head, it was years since I played it last time, but sure there more shit like that
>Ok, so you are telling me to go to the ancient temple of god of doom Ghurhazaragothosh to retrieve your toothbrush. But I will be getting something for that?
>Character changed towards evil
Also forced party members are never cool.
>>339580269
I fucking love the game but yeah, the OC was fucked up again because WotC was looking over their shoulders and had rigid ass guidelines about what D&D is and what isn't.
so it was a carbon copy of "generic D&D" instead of doing something more interesting than shitty orc and githyanki filler battles.
then the technical director dropped the ball towards finishing the product and left the game unoptimized.
also, it should have been released later anyway because then you'd at least have just as good graphics as DA:O had.
a weapon sheath option would have been nice too.
>>339580371
>MotB was goat.
Yeah that story was epic tier. They actually had a good writer writing the story for that one.
I did everything I could to help Kaelyn the Dove in her quest, yet there was no happy ending for her.I loved her
Can I start MotB without finishing main campaign? Or do I miss something?
It brought me Motb so I don't care.
>>339583731
Death to false Gods! Down with the Wall!
>>339583878
It's pretty much good on it's own.
The intro of Mask might have spoilers on how the main quest ended.
>>339583878
Not much, just a bit backstory about Gith sword and your character, but this mostly isn't important. MotB is around fucking 2000 miles away from first one, so you lose nothing.
I also recommend playing module called Subtlety of Thay, amazing module about Red Wizards, only one out there that capture spirit of being one.
Also Maimed God one, about Cleric. Spells used in dialogues, actually useful spell skills and stuff. Top tier, both.
>>339580269
They fucked up module creation.
>>339584072
Her quest was just.
>>339584532
Of course it was since that most of gods of Faerun are fucking asshole fags.
Hello.
>annoying generic character you don't like at all
>I'll just join your party then anon, I'll come along for your adventure and you cannot stop me
Worst feature of any video game
>want to help your dorf buddy become a Monk because it's his dream
>don't want him to become a Monk because Monks fucking suck
>>339586391
Honestly, I felt that him deciding not to become a monk after all because of his duty to lead his clan would have been a better ending, so I just don't bother completing the quest. After all, the important thing is that he learnt the lessons, right?Pity there's no actual dialogue to mention this in the game. Thanks, Avellone
Eh, fuck NWN, let's talk Baldur's Gate.
I'm playing through BG 1 EE, all through BG 2 + ToB EE. Picked a gnome fighter illusionist. He's a fucking beast, however, what weapons should I spec into? I got two points in scimitars and three in dual wielding already, where should I go next? Something with blunt damage? Maces, morningstars or hammers?
>>339585880
He was barely involved until the last few months when the former director quit and he had to work that mess into something releasable
>>339580269
UI is garbage
>>339588754
Warhammers, unless you know you're gonna give Crom Faeyr to someone else.
>tfw I've never had the patience to finish a run as a caster
I-I didn't choose to hate vancian casting!
>>339581097
You can win the trial with no evidence, but it would be very hard.
>>339581097
>>"God tier" diplomacy master will fail if you allow him to speak no matter how many evidence you find
Because he focuses too much on criticizing Luskan, and when Torio reveals he used to be one of the Hosttower he fucks himself over. This can catch you during the trial anyway, but it's not as severe because you can change your approach
>Can't just get away with high CHA
So removing the 'I am the moon' from tabletop RAW is a bad thing? Having high conversational skills and/or being a Bard does still help, and makes it awesome.
I like the trial, I think it's something that if you're not interested in that type of quest you'll already hate it, but if you are, then you tend to like it regardless of how forced it feels.
>>339589563
>So removing the 'I am the moon' from tabletop RAW is a bad thing?
In d&d game? Yes!
>>339580269
The game was very characters centric and succesed with this. Characters were god tier and had a chemistry not only with mc but with each other too which is quite rare for WRPG. The dialogues didn't influenced plot and gameplay a lot but there were shit ton of them, they were quite good and has changed a lot depending on your alignment, relationships and chooses you made.
One of the three west games which made me actually give a fuck about characters.The other two are planescape and VtMB
>>339580269
The only thing really wrong with it is that almost every part has absolutely awful pacing. Unfortunately, that one thing is bad enough that it makes almost the entire game a dull slog.
I still liked parts of it though, like the trial in Neverwinter, or Jerro's dungeon.
>>339586391
>>339586570
You can actually complete the quest without him becoming a Monk. There's a dialogue option for it all the way at the end.
>>339589907
>Characters were god tier
b8
Warlock was the only not garbage character in the entire game
>>339589698
That's mostly fun in an actual tabletop game, though, when you have other players and a DM to fuck with. With a video game, there have to be slightly more restrictions on what a player can do with it (like stealing the baby, for example).
You do get to pull some insane tricks with your checks though, like the Taunt or Perform one during the trial, or the best check in the whole game:[SET THE LUTE ON FIRE AND PLAY THE TUNE AGAIN]
>>339589907
>Best Girl in both OC and MotB doesn't have a romance
Why exist
>>339590018
Can you? I thought it just made him pissed at you for not allowing him to fulfil his dream.
>>339584532
>>339584685
Ao is the one that asked for it, since they ARE in need of followers. Kelemvor ain't happy about that shit but gotta do what the overboss says.
>>339581097
>"God tier" diplomacy master will fail if you allow him to speak no matter how many evidence you find
Sand is not a god tier diplomacy master, he just pretends to be one.
>Same result, it doesn't matter if you win or not
Winning the trial give you either the "Wrongfully Accused" or "Master Orator" titles and a reward later on.
>You forced to go and search evidence if you want to "win" and can't just get away with high CHA
Wrong.
Having no evidence gives you -1 point, while getting all of it is +3, do it's a difference of 4 points.
You need 6-13 points to prove your innocence, 14 or more if you want "Master Orator". You can get around 20+ points during the whole trial if you have appropriate skills and make good choices.
>>339590124
>neeshka romance
was there some fighting between co-workers about this?
I keep hearing rumours and theres clearly some dialogue taken out that assumed the romance option
>>339590423
Bishop romance was supposed to be in the game as well.
>>339590506
No shit, because it is in the game
>>339581097
>high CHA should let you get away with anything
Hitler had high CHA. Go figure.
>>339590410
Sand is an inspector, he get through clues,facts and knowledge of the laws. Which obviously ARE fuckign important to win a trial. Still, as is stats show, and his skill build, he's not an orator. Remember OJ? Sometimes a good orator trumps evidence.
>>339589907
>The game was very characters centric
True.
>and succesed with this. Characters were god tier
False.
>druid elf barely had any personality beyond being a druid elf and stalking you since you were a baby
>most of the sorceress/wizard rivalry is cut from the game, which makes their behaviour especially towards the end of the game make very little sense
>romance paths for both the tiefling and the paladin were also cut, which especially in the paladin's case leaves him with no personality at all
>the ranger is supposed to be Chaotic Evil for some reason, but in reality he's just an edgy/pragmatic jerk
>the githzerai chick had literally no personality beyond dumping exposition for the last act of the game
>the gnome was SO QUIRKY LOL and is just forced on the party for no good reason
The Dwarf and Warlock were the only decent party members. The fighter girl also started off decent, but she was killed off too quickly to matter.
>>339590561
It's not,all you see in the game are just leftovers.
>>339581097
>High CHA should give immunity to law.
So stupid it hurts.
>>339590630
Letting Sand take over is playing it safe. He can't get you any additional points but also can't fuck anything up.
The real problem with the game...
>>339589947
It gets a lot better if you just play a melee monster.
>>339590423
Yeah, similar to the Sand/Qara Influence points the two romances would've been Neeshka/Elanee and Bishop/Casavir
>>339590670
>>the ranger is supposed to be Chaotic Evil for some reason
The alignments for NWN companions have always been terrible, usually due to engine bullshit. Funnily enough, I thought Bishop one of the better-presented CE characters.
>>339590758
I AM THE MOON
>>339590758
It's d&d game, you fucking retard
Of course it should, if writing is good
>>339590882
Bishop was hardly chaotic evil though, more like neutral evil.
>>339590882
>Neeshka/Elanee
Why would anyone ever pick Elanee?
I mean I have a fantasy boner for elf chicks and I'd still pick Neeshka without hesistating.
>>339590958
Sure is gonna work on the Judge of Tyr Olef, the very high skilled face bard Torio or Lord nasher alagondar, high level adventurer/king
>>339590882
He was selfish bastard, it's as neutral evil as you can get
Ammon Jerro being neutral evil is the most retarded thing in the game
>>339590992
You've either never played D&D or you've only played with incompetent DMs.
>>339590992
It's like 18 STR should let you lift buildings and18 DEX should let you run at the speed of light.
You are fucking retarded.
>>339590992
Yeah, you are apparently retarded. The trial is a succession of choices between different skills, you can have multiple options of the same skill at the same point, showing that you got the oratorial part good, but you need to choose the way to turn your speech and where to go with it. Unless you got fuckign litterally godlevel charisma, it shouldn't and won't fucking turn around a fuckign high priest of tyr on his sacred duty.
>>339591231
>>339591327
>it's okay, because it's made by obsidian!
>Who need options in dialogues? They are for faggots!
>>339591453
>Unless you got fuckign litterally godlevel charisma, it shouldn't and won't fucking turn around a fuckign high priest of tyr on his sacred duty.
Nothing stops me from having it, it's ad&d game after all
>>339580269
It wasn't that bad. Problem is that all the characters have literally only one trait, dwarf is full of prejudice and needs to accept diversity, thief always argues with everyone, druid is virgin Mary, asshole guy is asshole etc. Stronghold is pretty cool and story is generic. Average rpg out there but MotB is GOAT-tier.
>>339591683
>you
>in charge of arguments
>>339591683
Actually yes, the fact that godly charisma would be in the 40 to 50's, and that it's unnatainable for a mortal outside finding epic level artifacts. Or being a epic character.
Which you aren't you fucking dumbshit.
>>339591834
debugmode 1
SetCHA 60
>>339589907
Suck a dick.
Characters whose names I remember from the OC:
>Sand, because nigga hilarious and can roast everybody.
>Shandra Jerro, because best girl deserved better.
And from there, I have vague impressions:
>uncle guy
>eeeeeevil ranger
>annoying goofy gnome stereotype
>anger issues pyro sorceress
>pappy Jerro
>le monk meme dwarf
>snooze mcboredom the paladin of genericism +5
>pedo elf druid girl
>dumb best friend guy
>dead best friend girl
>bald mayor of hometownsville
NWN2 actually challenges Alpha Protocol for Obsidian's worst game.And wins, because at least Alpha Protocol isn't a shitty version of a game that's been done a dozen times already.
>>339591683
>I can't make choices that are literally impossible to make!
>That means it's a shit game and anyone defending it is an Obsidian drone!
Trying way too hard, mate.
>>339591683
the fact that you are at the time not an epic character stops you
the fact that at the time of the trial there's at least one npc present with a higher level than you stops you
you're probably that lil' faggot who rolls at home and conveniently always shows up with multiple 18+ stats
>>339591929
>Shandra Jerro
>best girlMy nigga.
>>339591764
>Should there be a check you could pass?
>nah, let's not even trying
Even worse, because game is full of checks that will automatically fail no matter what. Why would they even put them here?
>>339591898
>>339591027
>>339591146
A big part of Bishop's character is his drive for freedom, though, even if it becomes self-defeating or, indeed, counterproductive. Not just for himself, but for everyone - his whole state of nature idea about the nature of man not just being evil, but savage.
Ammon Jerro is neutral evil because of the engine, for the most part, but also because his fanaticism in the fight against the KoS is causing him to to do evil and harm innocent people for the sole reason that he doesn't have the forethought to look for other solutions.
>>339591087
>Why would anyone ever pick Elanee?
>I mean I have a fantasy boner for elf chicks and I'd still pick Neeshka without hesistating
Ugh, I know. Truly best waifu (except maybe for Shandra), it's even worse because of all the cute shit they left in the game like when she goes all tsundere about you buying Shandra her portrait, or when she supports you in your vigil.There's a mod that restores the romances, but I can't decide whether it's better to romance her as a fellow Tiefling or as an Aasimar
>>339591231
>Frenzied Berserkers are the best melee class but they still lose their second-best ability from tabletop
>to make things worse, it does work in the engine because Lorne gets it
Fucking Obsidian.
>>339591898
Wow bravo, it only needs you to fuck with the game debug to give you unnatainable stats for your argument to make sense, except the hardcoded limit is 50, which would still be a little low to convince a high priest of the lord of justice to not actually do what he did for 30 or so year. i guess you could use your +20 to diplomacy and bluff to argue your case better and find the tongue slips in the opposite party arguments if you so wished tho ;^)
>>339591146
Ammon Jerro is quite possibly the single best representation of Neutral Evil in all of D&D
at first it seems like he might have some core of "good" in him because you think he wants to save Neverwinter, then you talk to him and find out his one and only goal is to defeat the king of shadows no matter how. The fact that doing so would more than likely save people is incidental, he doesn't care about anything beyond his goals. Well save for one thing and that's because he fucked up so monumentally and fundamentally the majority of evil characters around would pause at it.
>>339592170
>The fact that doing so would more than likely save people is incidental
He literally started fighting King of Shadows because he learned that he might be a threat to Neverwinter.
>>339592115
>A big part of Bishop's character is his drive for freedom, though, even if it becomes self-defeating or, indeed, counterproductive. Not just for himself, but for everyone - his whole state of nature idea about the nature of man not just being evil, but savage.
He's evil because his drive for freedom is completly selfish and he has no regard for anyone else.
He isn't completly evil though, since he tried to warn his hometown before burning it down.
>>339591087
Casavir / Elanee would've been the vanilla choices. Neeshka and Bishop are the edgy choices.
>>339592115
>I can't decide whether it's better to romance her as a fellow Tiefling or as an Aasimar
>Neeshka doesn't like Casavir, because a Paladin's holy aura makes her skin itch
>I'm playing an Aasimar Paladin, literally the holiest motherfucker in the game, but she never once comments on it
Ok.
>>339592043
Because your character may think that using some honeyed word on some dude might work, while said brute clearly won,t hear it for being paid to kill him or other such thing.
It's like a woman trying to seduce a truly gay dude,no success possible, however much she thinks she does have a chance.
Or tryign to argue with an iron golem. he ain't listening to you, he's doing his job.
>>339592381
>Neeshka
>edgy
If anything, she's annoyingly cute. She's a very stereotypical quirky thief girl, but she's not edgy.
Obsidian.
>>339592397
She doesn't want to make you feel bad.
>>339592381
>Neeshka
>edgy
She's anything but. Her stat sheet might say CN but she's CG all the way.
>>339591898
penalty for something like what you're trying to pull is in the -60 range because what you're telling is blatantly not true and you're doing it to the high priest of the god of justice
60cha only gives you a +25 bonus to the relevant skills add a natural 20 to that and some skill points in bluff and you could possibly reach like +70
which means that priest needs only 10 sense motive to always succeed
and given its the god damn high priest of the god of justice he has that
>>339592043
There was a fuck ton of checks during the trial.
As said before, you are retarded.
>>339592381
Neeshka is quirky and has perfect voice actor for her character. Edgy choice is edgy pyro mage chick.
>>339592249
>>339592170
He's neutral evil because he use demon and devil pact VERY willingly and is not afraid to kill for his goal. His goal ( protecting neverwinter and his familly) is noble, he just use inexcusable way to bring them about.
>>339592249
yes he STARTED that way
but he is the archetypical fallen hero, by the time YOU meet him hes more than a century separated from heroism
>>339592170
>then you talk to him and find out his one and only goal is to defeat the king of shadows no matter how. The fact that doing so would more than likely save people is incidental
Straight up lie
His story
>Wow, there some ancient evil who was good but is evil
>It will appear and attack city soon
>Better warn everyone because it's threat to the city(any evil character could go with threat to ME, so he literally can;t be evil after that)
>City game me army and made me commander(And 10 years latter everyone will forgot about it and will think that army fought against me:3)
>It's better to not waste humans lives and just use demons in the vanguard
>Duel with king of shadows is going well, but I heard some child cry and it was enough to break my concentration, so king of shadows broke my sword,
>Shit go down I won and almost finished guy, but demons took me in hell for my debt
>I'm free, and this time Im ready to save city, no matter the cost(Something that chaotic good would do)
There literally nothing neutral evil about him
>>339592474
>>339592503
I just mean as opposed to plain Elanee. Neeshka was less emo than Bishop, but still the foil choice to Elanee.
>>339592580
Agreed, but she was not a love interest.
>>339592580
originally she was supposed to be less edgy with her desire to burn coming from the fact she was less of a sorcerer and more a living conduit to the plane of fire
and the prime reason she was always so utterly pissed off at everyone telling her to hold back would have been because she's actually already holding back the majority of her potential
>>339592596
>His goal ( protecting neverwinter and his familly) is noble, he just use inexcusable way to bring them about
It's the intetions that define your character, not actions.
Next you are going to tell me a paladin who accidently killed a child is going to turn chaotic evil.
>>339592628
he made deals with devils, sold his soul 10 times over and killed innocents out of convenience
dude is evil as fuck
Arguing about D&D alignments is retarded.
Friendly reminder that Gygax himself said that by design vengeance is a Lawful Good act, slavery is Chaotic Good as long as it's done to evil people, and that killing children/innocents belonging to an evil race is a purely Good act.
>>339591104
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/glibness.htm
>>339591695
>Problem is that all the characters have literally only one trait
Why do people keep saying this? Yes, I am aware that doing something ironically or tongue in cheek doesn't make it automatically good, but neither does it make it bad. They're just poking fun at how one-dimensional they seem if you don't bother actually interacting with them.
>>339592170
>Ammon Jerro is quite possibly the single best representation of Neutral Evil
Agreed.
>>339592360
Yeah, but that's why he's Chaotic Evil and not, say, Neutral Evil.
I'd even go so far as to say that's he's beyond selfish in that he doesn't just want freedom for himself, but for everyone else, too - it's just that his view of 'freedom' is a life of savagery.
>>339592397That's because you make her feel a different kind of tingle, anon
>>339592608
He's a sine wave . Starts evil, controllign and dealign with demons at a very young age, then goes better when he get training and eventually become a neverwinter court mage. Then they don,t listen to his advice about the king of shadows being a treath, so he goes back to demonic powers to stand a chance and get a sword of gith
He stays evil up until Mephasm chide him with killing his only family left and realise how hard he fucked up and go back toward somewhatish good. Maybe.
>>339592779
>he made deals with devils, sold his soul 10 times over and killed innocents out of convenience
Everything is chaotic, not evil
Especially
>killed innocents out of convenience
But of course obsidian could do nothing wrong
>>339592779
>he made deals with devils
So? Does making deals with angels makes you good too?
>sold his soul 10 times over
So? There is literally nothing evil about that, it's his soul.
>and killed innocents out of convenience
He killed people out of hurry and to not take unnecessary risks.
>>339580269
Goddamn this thread is what I miss about NWN games. I wish a company would make a modern NWN with mod support.
>>339592862
>they are intentionally one-dimensional for fun so they are not one-dimensional
Kek
No Neeshka fucking despite Neeshka being obviously DTF from all the dialogue
>>339592862
He can't be chaotic evil since he respects deals and promises.
Seeking freedom is not chaotic in itself.
>>339592907
>He killed people out of hurry and to not take unnecessary risks.
he did this without regrets, without trying to make amends
this is the definition of evil
and given that in the D&D cosmology any deal with a devil increases the power of team evil over team good all deals with them are objectively evil, same with deals with angels being objectively good
don't like it, try another setting
>>339590992
>It's d&d game, Of course it should, if writing is good
Spot the shit player/DM.
No it doesn´t, any roleplaying savvy person will tell you that this is bullshit.
Y'all niggas need to play with the "developer commentary" subtitles if you haven't already, there's some cool game direction stuff in there and a few hilarious moments.
>>339592995
>D&D game
>fugging a demon girl
Guaranteed controversy, I can see why they cut it. Might as well go ask the concerned parenting groups to boycott your game.
>>339592995
Neeshka fucking was cut from the game. So was Casavir fucking, but nobody likes Casavir.
There was a LOT of story stuff cut from the game.
>>339592862
>glibness
>working in a court of law in FR
the first thing that happens at the start of a trial like that is a dispel magic on everyone present
>>339580269
No Infinity engine
>>339593083
>he did this without regrets, without trying to make amends
>this is the definition of evil
No, it's fucking not?
>>339592708
No. you dumbshit.
But a paladin that want's to bring the rightfull lord of his country and does so by killing every single serf of that new lord to prove a point is far past good.
There are nuance that you seem unable to grasp. Selling your soul and commanding demons is EXTREMELY grave in the Good/Evil ladder. It actually supercede you going to your god's afterlife, or the wall.
>>339592862
I'm sure a high priest of Tyr does not have a lvl 3 spell called dispell magic, or you know, the little spell called Zone of Truth.
>>339593207
Spotted the fiend.
>>339581097
>Sand
>>"God tier" diplomacy master
I think you're retarded or you haven't paid attention.
>>339593237
>But a paladin that want's to bring the rightfull lord of his country and does so by killing every single serf of that new lord to prove a point is far past good.
What if killing those serf is the only sure way to bring that lord to his country?
>>339592708
D&D does not give a crap about that though, if you do evil, even for ultimate good, you are still evil.
>necromancy to spare the living the hardships of war, woops that´s bad.
Shit is and always was illogical.
That´s why you need a good GM.
Fuck my DMs in particular, they were horrible.
>>339592683
>Neeshka was less emo than Bishop, but still the foil choice to Elanee.
It's funny, because by the end game Neeshka is probably the stabler character.
>>339592921
>Sly or self-deprecating/self-critical humour or commentary has no place in gaming because people like you will be retards and treat it with sincerity
FTFY
>>339592707
>she was less of a sorcerer and more a living conduit to the plane of fire
Shape of fire. Shape of fire. Shape of fire.
>>339590992
Actual DND player here, if you do that in a game or if a DM allows that, you're both That Guy.
Once had a retard who rolled a high Carousing (Rogue Trader equivalent of Dip) roll and said "Okay now they'll leave us alone." out of character about the Tau we were facing and threw a temper tantrum when the GM told him he has to roleplay. You might be that guy.
>>339593456
Then maybe he needs to looks for other solutions a bit longer.
>>339593487
>Sly or self-deprecating/self-critical humour or commentary has no place in gaming because people like you will be retards and treat it with sincerity
What makes you think that makes characters not one dimensional and why it's impossible to do while at the same time giving them more personality and better writing?
>>339593487
>the elf that fell in love with you after watching you grow up from birth may be a bit unstable
gee you think?
>>339593580
Having some Nick Bates flashback here
>>339593554
He doesn't have time to look for other solutions because literally every single second counts.
>>339593689
he's a high level paladin, they're serfs, please tell me a good situation in which he has to kill them instead of knocking them out or maybe break their legs to incapacitate them, then return to heal their legs back so they don't die
>>339593551
Fuck that guy
>I rolled a 19+9 I use my charm to charm the guard who's going to arrest me!
>Hey man, you need to roleplay that stuff. It's doesn't make for an interesting encounter for any of us.
>But I rolled the number!
>Are you sure you're just going to roll dice and not roleplay?
>Yes, this is how the game works!
>Okay so your character whilst charming stands absolutely still and intently looks into the guard's eye. He notices your demonic looking eyes (he was playing a tiefling) and yells for fellow guards to come help.
>What? But I rolled the dice.
>Yeah and it's a roleplaying game.
>Mfw
Fuckers like that should just stick to numbers games like MMOs if they just want to wank off to their numbers instead of roleplaying.
>>339593579
Not him, but for me, what made them not one dimensional (The ones whose stories weren't cut for time, that is) is because they get into trouble because of their stereotypical behavior at first and then grow and change from it. Khelgar's story is entirely that. Also, Bishop, who's aware of his own personal failings and who has some shred of honor and the self-preservation to know not to start shit in a city/in the middle of civilization, which a stereotypical chaotic evil character wouldn't.
>>339593928
Well it's not my fault your paladin/serfs situation is not a good analogy to Ammon Jerro actions.
Thanks for proving my point.
>>339588754
Flails or warhammers.
>>339593981
>but for me, what made them not one dimensional (The ones whose stories weren't cut for time, that is) is because they get into trouble because of their stereotypical behavior at first and then grow and change from it
Wow
>>339593992
Ammon Jerro had other options, but he chose to kill because it was the most convenient one, he didn't even look for other possibilities
he's evil
>>339593981
>Not him, but for me, what made them not one dimensional (The ones whose stories weren't cut for time, that is) is because they get into trouble because of their stereotypical behavior at first and then grow and change from it.
That's deep
>>339594087
>>339594139
I don't understand. Are you making fun of me?
>>339593689
Ah,so his lord is litterally dieing in front of his eye ?
Look, i'm trying to help you here, since you seem REALLY bad at that whole D&D thing.
The point is, on Faerun, there ARE objectively evil acts. Deal with demons are one of those, only slightly less evil than destroying a soul. Then you go up several rung and you got murder, then several more and you got theft, etc.
The point is that Deal with Demons is evil enough that whatever the point was, after your death you are going down there. No if's or buts. Deal with demon = damnation.
Is it entering your head yet?
Jerro goal was good, but he did a thing that does condemn him to go to hell, and , for everyone concerned, is the definition of evil. If he was a neutral or good, he wouldn't have made those deals.
Again, so it enter your thick skull, the fact he was willing to make the deals prove, in itself, that he was evil, whatever his motivation for it was.
>>339594102
This is not how alignment system works
>>339594227
Yes
Aside from the fact that >>339593474 is right, and arguing alignment is mostly just bullshit,
>>339593040
>He can't be chaotic evil since he respects deals and promises.
Yes he can, a Chaotic character doesn't have to ignore every deal he agrees to. They're just guided by personal ethos rather than traditional ideals of law and honour.
>Seeking freedom is not chaotic in itself.
As a philosophical point it is, especially when you want to impose it on everyone else.
>>339592907
>>339593456
Killing people out of expedience, even (hell, especially) in the name of good is an evil action. It is made clear in the game time and time again that Jerro did have other options he could have chosen to take, but he did not - because he didn't care about anything other than stopping the KoS anymore. Evil.
>>339593689
>He doesn't have time to look for other solutions because literally every single second counts.
Did you even play the game? If you pass hiswell, technically Shandra'sInfluence check, he'll even admit to fault because of his short-sightedness causing innocents to suffer needlessly and causing more problems and delays for him out of nothing but his own hubris. He refuses to apologise for it, for the most part, but he will admit it.
>>339594227
Yes. And I'll forever make fun of you until it gets me in trouble and I change my ways and then i'll never again do the same because I'm a good character.
>>339594283
besides all that stuff, even if you think he could be good after the deals with the devil and shit
When he killed Shandra not out of necessity but simply out of sheer spite, when he tortured her before letting her expire, that was an objectively evil act.
>>339580269
Look for the name center bottom.
Mystery solved.
>>339594313
>Killing people out of expedience, even (hell, especially) in the name of good is an evil action.
So by your logic, if I have to kill one person to save another 2, I'm evil?
That's retarded.
>>339594283
>bad at that whole D&D thing.
>The point is, on Faerun, there ARE objectively evil acts. Deal with demons are one of those
Kek
Deal with a demon is only evil if you did if for selfish reason
In any other case it's CHAOTIC
>>339580269
NWN2 shits all over NWN1 in every possible way
>>339594445
Anon, i fear for you. Did your mom drop you on the head repeatedly, then try to finish you off with another blunt object until whatever served as your brain turned to mush?
>>339594536
So no arguments because you failed in bringing your modern morale into faerun setting?
Pathetic
>>339593579
>What makes you think that makes characters not one dimensional and why it's impossible to do while at the same time giving them more personality and better writing?
Because the whole idea behind the game seems like an examination of DnD cliches?
Anyway, my point was that you don't have to like their choice of characterization, but if you do think they're just one-dimensional you're a fucking idiot, that's all.
>>339594303
>the same retard arguing killing people out of expedience isn't evil is the same retard who can't understand the characterization
What a fucking surprise.
>>339594442
>So by your logic, if I have to kill one person to save another 2, I'm evil?
>That's retarded.
>Reading comprehension
Okay, so you didn't bother reading my post. Great!
The whole fucking point is that Jerro didn't HAVE to kill those two proverbial people. He just chose to anyway, because it was the easiest option. Yes, that is evil.
NWN1 Class Tier List
>God Tier:
Druid
>Top Tier:
Wizard, Sorcerer, Cleric, Shifter
>High Tier:
Champion of Torm, Black Guard, Bard, Weapon Master
>Mid Tier:
Paladin, Harper Scout, Fighter, Red Dragon Disciple, Dwarven Defender
>Low Tier:
Monk, Ranger, Rogue, Pale Master, Arcane Archer, Shadow Dancer
>Trash Tier
Barbarian, Assassin, Purple Dragon Knight
>>339594598
No, no argument because your limitless stupidity apparently prohibit you of actually understanding sound ones.
>>339580269
>What went wrong?
- Horrible, insufferable characters
- Godawful UI
- Shitty dialogue system that works awfully for unvoiced modules, which is most of them
- Influence system that just means you have to pander to every companion's worldview or they'll turn against you at the end, and you really don't want to pander to them because they're all so fucking unlikable
- Ugly weapon and armor models
- Useless minimap
- The toolset is much harder to use, so the number of modules made for it is staggeringly low
>>339594617
>but if you do think they're just one-dimensional you're a fucking idiot, that's all.
Then explain how they are not. Ok, we know that dwarf is not one-dimensional but beware...he is two-dimensional! What about the rest. Try not to use buzzwords, thanks.
>>339594765
this is bait
>>339593474
>>339593551
>>339593959
Tabletopbros, tell me I'm not the only one who's had the pleasure of playing a high-level Frenzied Berskerer in a campaign of political intrigue?
>>339594627
Thanks for posting the updated version, listbro
>>339594765
>144 replies
>40 posers
OP samefagging the shit out of his thread
>>339594804
Other than useless minimap it's pretty spot on IMO. I'm also at the end so I'm not sure about the companions turning on you.
>>339594639
Okay, you are retarded, I understand
But here, a simply hint for you
Is warlock locked behind evil alignment? No
So all your arguments about dealing with demons is evil, are stupid
>>339594765
Pathetic bait
NWN2 was god tier crpg
>>339584331
Probably their biggest mistake. Even if all the official campaigns were bad, the game might have been good for the custom modules, but there's no hope of that either.
>>339594882
Also retards not bothering to read the thread as well, apparently.
>>339594598
I'll try to go slow for you. Hopefully slow enough for it to reach one of those dozens braincells tyou still have active.
Read the following greentext slowly, and try, carefully, to understand each sentence before going to the next.
>Demons are the embodiement of Chaos and Evil
>In D&D, souls are the most important and sacred part of someone. It is also a source of powers
>Souls are being used by demons as currency to increase their power and station
>By selling your soul to a demon, you are litterally empowering the embodiments of chaos and evil
Is it clear enough for you?
>>339594869
I only play Fightan so I can understand at least. I always end up being the leader/face, too, because I'm usually the only person around who isn't braindead.
>>339594869
Anything can be done well as long as you're a player who can roll with the punches and roleplay well.
I actually really like low-INT characters like barbarians in settings full of intrigue because it means the characters in the party can play off each other and not be a bunch of minmaxed faggots that excel at everything.
Hell I've played a low-INT gentle half ogre barbarian who despite being a terrifying sight was all nice and cuddly to civilians and kids. I fucked up the lord pretty hard after finding out I've been unknowingly been helping him in his diabolical schemes.
>>339595037
>Demons are the embodiement of Chaos and Evil
My sides, keep trying
Demons are one of the most lawful creatures in the setting
>>339595127
Devils are lawful you cockfalcon.
>>339584331
To tell the truth, it's players fault
Module creator was great compared to the first game one, but players never bothered to learn how to use it
It was just too powerful for them.
>>339594921
It isn't. You can be a chaotic Warlock. But then, you are dealign with Fey, and not outsiders. You can run the gamut of fey, from the seelie to unseelie, the same way you can run the gamut from LE to CE with a devil/demon warlock. The point you seem unable to grasp is that he went for demons for his deals.
>>339590423
Avellone hates romance in games, so he probably fought against including it.
>>339595127
Wow, you are actually MORE ignorant than i tought abotu the setting. This is quite the sight.
Btw, just for your personnal info, Jerro was more Lawfull than Chaotic, since his primary deal was with Levistus, the still lord, master of the 6th.
>>339595307
Was Avellone even there when they developed NWN2? I thought he only came onboard when they got the FNV deal because he dickrides his own work so hard.
>>339595307
When why main theme of motb was getting your dick wet in the shavedhead girl's pussy
>>339595368
5th* The hag was 6th back then, i always switch them over
Anyone RP servers still running that you guys can suggest?
Preferably not run by a clique of dickbag players who ignore new people.
>>339595127
I kinda want to screenshot this and go have a laugh with the fa/tg/uys
>>339580269
>Change the Mods toolkit
>Less mods than NWN1
>People moves on
Oh, this takes me back.
Anyone know where I can download some nice campaigns? Is nwnvault still active?
>>339595127
Devils are the Lawful ones you retard.
>>339594778
>Try not to use buzzwords, thanks.
Only a sophist or a troll would ask this, especially considering what your first two sentences were. But fine, I'll indulge you:
-Khelgar, as you've already touched on, is someone who's trying to become a monk without understanding of the philosophies and virtues behind it... which is something he learns over the course of this quest. What the game never bothers to spell out for you is that if he completes his Trials by rediscovering his duty to his Clan, leaving to become a monk anyway proves that he's essentially learnt nothing.
-Shandra is a deconstruction/examination of a hero (specifically, a player-character-type-hero)
-Bishop is an actually philosophical CE type character, with a realistic backstory and everything (refer earlier in the thread)
-Qara is CN, because she values freedom and personal responsibility, but even though most peoples complaints about her is that she's just so randumb, she's actually pretty careful at keeping control of her power (and you get Influence if you praise her for it, not just indulging her) and she might be impulsive, but for someone's who's a representation of elemental flame...
-Ammon Jerro is the best representation of NE in fiction, for reasons that I've mentioned before
-Neeshka might be introduced as the typical Neutral thief, but apart from her personal hangups she's one of the most moral party members in the game, and holds friendship as a virtue beyond even that.
I could go on, but there's no point - you might dislike the characterization, or think it's stereotypical or a lazy analysis, but you can't possibly think they're 'one-dimensional'
>>339595127
>Demons are one of the most lawful creatures in the setting
>Demons are one of the most lawful creatures in the setting
>Demons are one of the most lawful creatures in the setting
>Demons are one of the most lawful creatures in the setting
Well, fuck this, guys. I'm out.
>>339592895
>killed innocents out of convenience
No, I'd say that's straight up evil.
>>339592920
>I wish a company would make a modern NWN with mod support.
Me too, anon.
>>339595776
Bait
>>339596008
I would literally bankrupt myself if somebody with a track record of delivering on games kikestarted this.
>>339593207
If you don't consider murdering innocents with no remorse or attempt at repentance to be evil, then what *do* you consider evil?
>>339580783
This.
>B-BUT OBISIDIAN MAKES GOOD GAMES! fucking nonsense
NWN1 was a great game though, runs better too.
>>339596201
Doing it for the selfish reasons
>NWN1 was a great game
Go away biodrone
>>339593098
The people who would call for a boycott because of demon fucking don't approve of D&D in the first place. If they were going to raise a controversy, they would have done it with or without demon fucking. They're not worth worrying about.
>>339596324
>biodrone
Are you fucking serious anon?
The bioware that made NWN1 is DEAD, stop trying to attribute the pile of shit that is modern bioware to the works of the old bioware.
>>339596401
All bioware games were garbage
>>339596008
>>339596143
Same. What company could pull it off though? Obsidian did pillars already, and probably wouldn't be interested.
Modern bioware? No thanks.
No beamdog either plz.
Who does that leave?
>>339595056
>I always end up being the leader/face, too, because I'm usually the only person around who isn't braindead.
I know what that's like.
>>339595125
>I actually really like low-INT characters like barbarians in settings full of intrigue because it means the characters in the party can play off each other and not be a bunch of minmaxed faggots that excel at everything.
I like this, but nothing beats the feeling of having a Frenzied Berserker unlock Inspire Deathless Frenzy and being able to turn the entire party, Bards, casters and all into a pack of even-more-murderous psychopaths at the drop of a hat... especially in a campaign that revolves around, say, border conflicts or court intrigue or peace talks.
I like you idea about the gentle giant half-ogre, I always preferred playing 'non-traditional' Berserkers like philosophical elves.
>>339596549
>Who does that leave?IPL
>>339596454
Fuck off and stop trying to fit in underage faggot.
NWN1 was great, tons of mods, great engine too.
>>339596549
I'm specifically talking about just the toolkit and assets part man, IDGAF if there's no campaign or only a barebones one in there.
DESU I'd kill a nigga for NWN1 with HD graphics and updated to 5e D&D.
>>339593098
>>339596335
"Concerned parents about video-games" are a thing of the past. They have given their last cry about Ted Cruz, and have been forgotten forever
>>339596643
>updated to 5e D&D.Is 5E any good?I don't have a group anymore
>>339596758
It's far simpler to play, easier to learn.
My biggest problem with it so far is the lack of variation amongst characters within the same class. Most of the time they just play the same.
>>339595782
The old Vault is gone, but the new one has just about everything from before, plus an active community: http://neverwintervault.org/
>>339596758
I fucking love it, it's d20 but not that d20 that made sure everybody would rollplay instead of roleplay.
>>339596753
NWN2 came out in 2007 friend. That's nearly a decade ago now.
Hm? It wasn't that bad. The OC still isn't great, but that was expected after 1.
>>339596324
>Doing it for the selfish reasons
So literally anything is okay if it's not done purely for selfish reasons?
>>339596632
If only someone could mod in full party control, it would be perfect.
>>339596983
>My biggest problem with it so far is the lack of variation amongst characters within the same class
Welcome to D&D outside of 3E and 4E.
>>339596753
That's true. Now it's "concerned feminists who think every game is misogynistic".
>>339597269
And mod in full parties.
>PC and one follower
Disgusting desu.
>>339597303
>variation within the same class
>4e
Oh right, there was no variation between the fucking classes, let alone within them.
>>339596643
>HD graphics
That would make it harder for people to make mods, though. NWN1's graphics are one of the reasons it was so easy to mod and create modules for. For example, the way armor and weapons work, with multiple separate parts that be customized individually to create unique-looking equipment without making custom assets. That couldn't be done with modern HD graphics.
>>339596983
>>339596987
I might have to actually start again and try it out, then. Roll20 good?
>>339597410
>>PC and one follower
>Disgusting desu.
Not in the objectively superior HotU campaign, with Best Girl and a OT3 ending
>>339597410
>And mod in full parties.
There are no technical issues standing in the way of that. I've played modules that allow three companions or more. That was just a design choice for the OC. On the other hand, direct control over companions is a technical issue that remains unsolved.
>>339597613
I found NWN2's armor system to be fine in that regard.
MOTB > SoV > HotUD > Vanilla 2 > SoU > Vanilla 1
>>339598025
NWN2's armors were ugly as fuck
>>339598246
But the system worked fine.
Shitty art =/= shitty armor system.
>>339597613
>That couldn't be done with modern HD graphics.
Sure it could
>>339598246
NWN2's armors > NWN1's armors
>>339598025
NWN2 armors were all one piece. They lost all the customizability that >>339597613 described.
>>339598637
>talking out your ass
Educate yourself.
>>339594627
>Druid
>Higher than Sorc
Nah, mate. Even against a druid using exploits and in dragon form, a sorc can spam ts and igms and win ezpz.
For PvP sorc is king.
>>339598769
Then why does NWN2 not have a Customize Character Override equivalent? The only mod that lets you change your armor's appearance just cycles through a bunch of one-piece armors.
>>339598637
>NWN2 armors were all one piece.
No they fucking weren't
Yo, any of you fags wanna co-op NWN 1 or 2?
I have a fucking itch, but I ain't scratching it alone.
>>339598857
lolno you fucking retard druid can outheal igms with stacked regenerate, Druid fucking CRUSHES wiz/sorc
L2NWN
>>339597410
How to spot someone who never played 4E.
>>339598984Are you talking about ERP
>>339598875
>still talking out your ass
I've played on multiple persistent worlds where you could modify the body piece, then gloves/boots/elbows/forearms/upper arms/ shoulders/knees.
Perhaps you should make a cocktail out of the stuff under the sink.
>>339599059
If you want ERP just go play on Haven.
>>339599075
Is there anything like that available for single player?
>>339599026
Nah you fag. If you a bitch and exploit the regen stacking, even then sorc can outdamage your dumb fucking ass by removing your summon and then chain casting a shitton of igms in repeated time stop at point blank range and having all of them go off at the same time. It's 2k damage in one flurry, dead on arrival bby
get wrecked
>>339599229
Fucked if I know man, I don't really care about looks in SP. But it is possible in the engine, so I don't see why not.
Worst case you learn how to use the tools and implement the script into a SP module.
>>339599059
Nah, I just wanna play NWNs but I don't wanna do it alone.
>>339598857
Nope
All druid has to do is hit counter spell and let his animal companion kill the sorc while it cant do anything, even if you get a time stop off counterspell will stop you from being able to cast anything for its duration.
>>339593959
So, do you force people to do pushups in order to roleplay STR checks?
Because fuck you, and all the third-rate fuckwad GMs like you. If you don't want people to use CHA and social skills in your game then cut CHA and social skills from your game. If you leave them in, and your players spend resources on getting good at those rolls, then shut your fat retarded mouth and look at the appropriate table to adjudicate results of the dice throw.
>>339599075
The difference between NWN1 and 2 is that in 1 we had lego minifigures and in 2 we had action figures with tons of attachments.
>>339599295
WRONG
Even after TS missises dont hit all at once.
Regenerate will outheal IGMS EVEY TIME.
You also CANNOT dispel Regenerate.
Wiz/Sorc can LITERALLY do NOTHING to druid.
Druid can sit and spam laugh emote and wiz/sorc cant do jack shit.
Druid CRUSHES wiz/sorc with ease.
See me in NWN1 fuckboi, ill curb stomp your wiz/sorc with no gear.
>>339599371
No prebuffs? Dude I got Divine shield and ema, my ac is sky fucking high, you bear or whatever the fuck ain't gonna hit me. and the fuck would i start with ts? I got gs just for that
fuck your companion anyway, I got banish.
>>339599625
Alright bitch. you on.
servervault, no player pauses
we use this
http://neverwintervault.net/project/nwn1/module/pretty-good-character-creator-customizer-pgc3-powered-igipe
>>339596758
It's 3e with less character options for martials and caster supremacy back in full force, but with slightly less fucked up maths.
>faggots actually arguing PVP in NWN
People who bother with meta in MMOs are sad but you guys are next level.
>>339599672
>Divine shield
Divine shield isn't going to do jack shit.
And you wont be casting banish if your being counter spelled, have you even played NWN before?
Even if the druid decides not to conterspell he can silence aura the animal companion and stop you from being able to cast with a no save silence.
>>339599905
>>faggots actually arguing PVP in NWN
>People who bother with meta in MMOs are sad but you guys are next level.
This.
>>339599972
fag, with +0 equipment, +ema (non counterable) +div shield (non couterable), +imp expertise I can forget about your shitty familiar, posses my panther or whatever the fuck and sic it on you. druids can't posses only command, you gonna have to drop that counter sooner or later.
>back in high school
>around the time Bioshock came out on PC
>somehow came across a second copy so I gave it to a teacher that I thought would like it at the time
>a few days later I have his class again and he gave me a mint condition copy of NWN Gold
>never played it
Should I go dig it out and try it?
>>339600587
Absolutely. It's worth it for the custom modules alone, and although the OC isn't great, the expansions are good, especially HotU.
>>339600334
lmao you dumb nigglet Druids animal companion is many times stronger than familiar and its not going to be able to touch a 100+ AC druid
>>339600887
So prebuffs or no prebuffs you dumb fucking fish faggot?
If prebuffs i'm in gs and you can't counter me because you can't fucking see me faggot. que ts, banish, igms, ts, igms igms, ts, igms igms repeat ad nauseum
if no prebuffs, i div shield, ema, expertise. lure and tank your unbuffed companion while you counter. summon familiar and sic it on your unbuffed ass.
>>339599853
>3e with less character options for martials
Is that even possible?
>>339601351
lmao you idiot druid can see invis with both trueseeing and dragon shape, and if they start buffed druid is going to be stacking hundreds of extended regenerates to the point you cant deal any damage, what part of that dont you understand.
Even unbuffed druids AC is 80-90, and he can just command the animal to defend in which case its going to shred your familliar in a few seconds then turn its attention to the defenseless mage.
I have a server up, name is vidya. lets go.
>>339601816
Gotta save something for the splats son.
So what modules would people recommend?
>>339602009
k, lemme install. if you using gog release, install 1.69 critical rebuild still
>>339603290
>if you using gog release
I have the normal version patched to 1.69
>>339603406
wait, gamespy is out.
You on some list?
>>339599468
You shouldn't just be able to say "I use charm to get out of this situation!" Even with a simple Strength check, you have to actually describe what you're doing, like "I'm using my strength to hold this door open" or something. It's boring to just say "I get out of this situation because numbers."
>>339580269
It wasnt that bad, pretty meh tier, but it had some great moments: the trial and the keep. How is there still no RPG game where you are some minor noble? Estate management, castles, crops, war, intrigue and espionage, whats not to love?
>>339580269
I think it was primarily the engine being harder to use than the Aurora engine in NWN1. Final nail was just the lack of a community supporting it.
I remember playing through the OC with my friends and it was just so annoying that you had to sit through dialogue together when interacting with merchants and you were forced to area transition with the rest of your party.
If the OC was supposed to showcase the game engine's capabilities, then it really fell flat on its face.
Storywise the OC was decent, MotB was great, and SoZ was okay. Mechanics wise, I enjoyed SoZ the most.
>>339604728
You should be able to direct connect if you have the name of the server still
>>339605084
>How is there still no RPG game where you are some minor noble?
Wouldn't that make it kind of hard to justify going out and fighting things yourself instead of having other people do it?
>>339607147
You could play nobles in DA:O.
But if that's what you want mechanically, you might as well play a different kind of game altogether.
>>339580269
>no smut modules
i cri verbatim
>>339603249
NWN2?
It's been awhile and I can only remember one that I enjoyed called Harp and Chrysanthemum. Not sure what other modules there are now for NWN2. There are a ton of great ones for NWN1 though.
>>339603249
Path of Evil has a lot of content if you don't your PC to be edgy.
>>339608187
don't mind*
>>339580269
Obsidian
>>339580269
>What went wrong?
Not the soundtrack, that's for sure.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LGT7IY91jIE
>>339608187
I don't like playing evil characters.
>>339607685
Sorry, this is for you >>339605084.
>>339608585
It just occurred to me that I didn't know what the original main themes were for NWN1 and NWN2 because I only ever played the Diamond/Complete editions, which played different music at the title screen.
