Why did he dumb down Smash Bros? Melee was a smashing success. Pretty much everyone who had a Gamecube had the game. No casual fans were turned off by wave dashing and other AT. If Brawl had been a proper Melee successor, it would have sold as much. So why did Sakurai do it?
>>339542042
I had a gamecube and I didn't own it, Melee is actually the only smash game I didn't like
what is it about melee that attracted this autistic fanbase
Because he wanted morenthan mewtwoking and mango to play it.
>>339542176
Its their highest skill cap game, which isn't much, but it's what they use for their "smash should be an esport" arguement
>>339542176
it was full of nintendo characters
>>339542042
Melee was an accident. They couldn't replicate it if they tried.
>>339542042
Nintendo as a whole got dumbed down after Gamecube
>>339542176
Really fun game with nothing that really plays like it.
It's not really that it was more technical so much that Melee didn't work the way it was intended. People abused glitches and exploits and proclaimed this is how the game should be played.
It's really no different to K-Style in Gunz, where you exploited the game to play it differently from how it was intended.
>If Brawl had been a proper Melee successor, it would have sold as much
Iirc, it sold much, MUCH more than Melee and was practically a system seller. Casuals don't care about competitive Melee and Meleefags are delusional if they think Melee's tech is what sold the game.
I'm a casual fan and I was turned off by the melee bullshit. Brawl sold almost twice as much as Melee.
Sakurai did it because it's his vision for Smash Bros. and all you meleebabbies have to deal with it and cling to your 15 year old broken ass trash heap of a game.
Smash 4 is getting more entrants than Melee at a bunch of tournament though. So obviously more players prefer the simplicity of that game over Melee.
>>339542042
>Melee was a smashing success.
>>339542042
>wave dashing
Because he wanted the skill gap to stay the same, and not grow over time. He wanted a game where experts can peak, and be unable to keep improving, so beginners could catch up to them.
Not much I can say about trying to explain that without it turning into a argument. I can say that while he knew about the "glitches", he also did not expect people to focus on them. He thought they would realize they were there, but won't try to master then, and just perform them as accidents.
>>339542603
I'm still upset that gunz2 was complete shit.
I miss joining duel servers with dual bazookas
>>339542506
>Nintendo as a whole got dumbed down after Gamecube.
This is true. Around the time the first Xbox came out, tons of fans dropped Nintendo for the Xbox. Nintendo felt betrayed, they gave people a powerful for the time Gamecube, and people preferred to play COD and Halo instead. Nintendo up and gave up on pleasing the fans that actually cared, since they thought they up and abandoned them.
>>339542603
>Glitches and exploits
Nigger, THEY BUILT IN MOMENTUM CONSERVATION FROM AIR DODGES INTO THE GAME, IT IS NOT A GLITCH OR AN EXPLOIT IN THAT CASE.
>>339543402
Its not a glitch, as they knew it was programmed into the game.
But it is a exploit, as in, its something that was left in due to time constraints in making the game, thus was expected to be left alone cause they didn't have the time to try and fix it, so using it while fighting someone is exploiting it to get a advantage.
Its a exploit, in that it wasn't intended to be used as often as it is used.
Because he's a hack.
>>339542042
>Melee was a smashing success
>>339543673
They gave it a name in debug. They knew way before it was released and even gave it animations.
>>339542176
It's fast.
>Melee
>Sonic
>Trains
Notice the connection of things autistic people like?
Hasn't 4 sold more than melee and brawl?
Counting 3ds sales of course.
And it isn't like there is anything wrong with playing any of the games competitively.
All 4 of these games are pure gold IMO.
>>339544162
Smash sells off brand name.
>>339543071
He wanted a competitive game that has almost zero actual competitiveness to it? Not arguing, just saying he's a twat for not understanding other perspectives
>>339543673
What are we calling an exploit though? DI is never formally defined in the game, nor is SDI, yet they're viable and useful tech in the game, so are they exploits too? What about tech-ing or wall jumping? Again they are never referenced outside of one or two in game videos and implied in the Y Link Break The Target stage, so are they considered exploits too?
>>339544684
>>339544162
It sell more if it was developed with skill involved
I went to a tourney for melee and maybe 10 percent of the people played pm and there were like 2 setups of smash 4
>>339542861
I am casual too but I also can 2 stock top players in my area. I just like games that require quick thinking and reaction timing.
Kinda like
how the NES and SNES were which made nintendo in the first place.
Fuck neo nintendo
>>339544975
No it wouldn't, Smash doesn't sell based off of competitive viability, it sells based off of characters and brand recognition mostly, see Brawl and Sm4sh which both sold loads more than Melee.
>>339542042
>smashing success
>>339544975
I know this is hard to get but just because it has a lower ceiling than melee (only cause of wave dashing really) doesn't mean 4 doesn't require skill to play.
>>339544837
I assume it's an exploit if it's something that wasn't intended to be in the game or something that is in the game but used in a way that's not what the developers anticipated and goes against their view on what the game should be.
For example, DI isn't an exploit since the developers put that in the game and it's used for the specific purpose it was made for.
Wave dashing is an exploit since it's using the game mechanics in a way the developers never intended and went against what they wanted from the game. It's why they removed it from other titles and added tripping to stop anything similar from happening.
>>339545256
yeah it does
the more stuff you can do in the game the more people play it and figure it out and it has a longer shelf life and makes people want a new game.
All of my friends i grew up with played brawl and were like ehh no and now we decided not to get the wii u
Smash 4 comes out looks exactly the same as brawl
Note none of my friends got a wii u and we grew up with the nes and snes.
call of duty smash anyone but it takes fucking 6 years to be made.
>>339545370
Then what about >>339544037 ?
>>339545369
i like pressing 3 buttons every minute too anon.
>>339545370
Tripping was more of a realism thing (a fierce battle can tire you out, that why the rate goes up the higher your % is)
>>339542042
>If Brawl had been a proper Melee successor, it would have sold as much.
Yeah, but it wasn't, so Brawl sold MUCH MORE. Turns out, not everyone's a waveyiffing, fun cancelling, Melee Hell reposting autist. Who'da thunk it?
>>339542603
That's such a shitty misconception created by elitist autistic melee faggots defending their game. I've only played Melee casually but I can still recognize the differences in the way the physics behaved compared to Brawl. The way the momentum carried with you when you jumped--it felt intuitive and natural.
Even my kid cousins could recognize how fucked the movement felt in Brawl. Remove the glitches//exploits and Melee remains interesting to play because you're given a solid foundation of physics to fuck around with. Compare Sonic 1-3 to Sonic 4. Smash 4 was a step in the right direction though, but Brawl can fuck right off.
>>339545424
And Brawl has overall more content than Melee, the actual gameplay became slower and less complicated, but no one cared because the competitive scene isn't what characterizes Smash.
Your friends may be a fringe case, but it has nothing to do with sales, which is what we're talking about.
>>339542042
Same reason he dumbed down the Kirby setting and characters for the anime.
He wants to go back and make things as simple as possible, to make more people enjoy what he does. But in doing so he loses sight of what made his creations great in the first place and people quickly lose interest.
>>339545424
>Note none of my friends got a wii u and we grew up with the nes and snes.
Why? You think you're hot shit because the number on your birth certificate is lower than other people's? Get off my board, faggotron.
>>339545424
Smash 4 is a speed in between brawl and melee actually. It's actually faster if you don't count things like wave dashing.
>>339542042
>Why did Sakurai do it
Money. All bullshit PR aside, and all of Sakurai's interview falsities aside. It was money, and what Nintendo TOLD HIM and the dev team who were working with NINTENDO'S IP's to do.
Think of the generation Brawl was introduced in. Think of the intentionally targetted audience the Wii was going after. Nongamers, and casuals. The blue ocean. A game like Melee is much too deep and complex for people who only play games casually or for those who dont play at all. Nintendo did it out of greed, Sakurai was only following orders. Yknow why Sakurai probably considered Brawl his last game? Because he was ashamed of what he had to do to the series, how he had to lie to our faces.
This man may be wrong about some things, and he may be pretty casual with some things. But lets be real, how much do you think the man who poured blood sweat and tears into helping make Melee really hates competitive gaming? How much of those opinions are really his?
Nintendo completely and utterly abandoned and sold out their core audience with the Wii, and replaced it with a COMPLETELY DIFFERENT DEMOGRAPHIC FOR MONEY. You think those crafty jap jews didn't have a hand in completely ruining smash for casuals? Gimme a break.
>>339542640
Everyone bought Brawl because Melee and 64 had been tremendous and people thought the series would continue to be great. After literally everyone was rused they wised up and that is why you see Tr4sh sell like it did.
>>339545784
I would argue melee has more content then brawl because you can do more with the characters and the game is way more fun.
It is not a fringe case it is what everyone thought who grew up playing nes and snes
I will tell you literally from birth what was played
Nes
Snes with 30 percent or so of the people playing genisis
playstation 1 half of the people and n64 half of the people
gamecube was probably 20 percent then ps2 was like 50 percent and xbox 30.
xbox 360 everyone got
they got ps3 for a side thing and
I and a couple of others got a wii
everyone now has a ps4
no one has a xb1
no one has a wii-u
I moved onto PC
now everyone is talking about getting a PC and dropping consoles entierly
>>339542640
Brawl sold decently because of the Wii's huge household penetration rate, nothing more nothing less. Dont flatter yourself fuccboi.
>>339546219
>you see Tr4sh sell like it did.
Still more than Memelee?
>>339542042
He's even more autistic than his fans are/
>>339546332
That has nothing to do with what I'm talking about, but go ahead and show me your professionally gathered statistics, I can guarantee you weren't even born when the nes came out.
>>339546107
>trying to get more people to enjoy a game
>is ruining it forever
Do I have to remind people that the reason why smash was made in the 1st place was to make a fighting game for a more general group of people.
Smash's goal was to be able to get picked up and someone could get good with it quickly.
thus have fun faster imo, a scrub doesn't like losing to a pro badly all the time and a pro doesn't want to keep destroying a scrub.
>>339545995
>because they valued gameplay challenge and innovation in the games that they were playing.
Not mediocre versions of games themselves
Neo nintendo develops for 40 year old men to play their games
they design their games to be very boring limiting and for oyu to play them for 30 minutes and drop
Kids want the opposite
They want to explore the game they want to get home and play it till they go to sleep they want to be challenged and given new things
More proof of this is in these 2 videos. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yt4KG9ib8S4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MTzyz2TgGls
>>339546219
>After literally everyone was rused they wised up and that is why you see Tr4sh sell like it did.
It sold more than gay-le, cuck.
>>339546219
More than Melee? So you proved my point that's it's based off of a brand?
>>339546578
Sakurai was well aware of the mechanics in Melee when making it. He probably didnt know it could be taken so far but seriously he's said himself that it's the sharpest and deepest game in the series. I think he has respect for it if nothing else.
>>339546062
looks entirely the same
>>339546352
Mario kart and NSMB sold like 30000 or some crazy number iirc.
Smash was popular with more hardcore fans than stuff like NSMB
>>339546603
Nice non response, faggot. Enjoy your fox on fox yiff-fest.
making game more accessible =/= dumbing down
>Although the pace of the game had to be lowered compared to Melee in order to achieve this balance, we have managed to keep the dynamism because we didn’t have to gear towards novice players like we did with Brawl. In fact, we recreated all characters almost from scratch. Also, I feel on a personal level that this game is more interesting than the three previous games in the series.
>Games aimed at casual users, such as Wii Sports and Wii Fit, reinvigorated the market and their success lay behind Wii’s popularity, [so] we had to make sure that Brawl would also be fun for first-time players. We also had to make sure that everyone could use the controls, such as holding the Wii Remote sideways. As a result of these considerations, overall Brawl is rather tame game; this had its advantages, but it also took away some of the excitement.
>The most important thing is that the game have breadth and depth, since we would like them to be popular with both novices and hardcore gamers.
>>339546702
playstation all Stars didn't do well iirc and cartoon networks smash clone did poorly as well.
In fact smash clones never seem to do that we'll from what I see.
Might be because smash clones play like shit.
>>339546352
>BRAWFUL N TR4SH SOLD LESS THAN MELEE-SAMA, GUISE!
>No it didn't.
>YEAH WELL THE SYSTEM IT WUZ ON SOLD MORE THAN MUH GAYCUBE SO IT DOESN'T COUNT CUZ REASONS!
Kys
>>339546352
No one would have bought it if it weren't about Nintendo characters, didn't have the level of marketing it had, didn't have as much polish, or was a recognizable brand.
>>339542042
>If Brawl had been a proper Melee successor, it would have sold as much
Brawl is the highest selling Smash game
>>339546509
The nes came out in 85
My mom and dad and uncle and sister would play that allllllllll day and night trying to beat each other in the game and they would all struggle.
I was born in 88 and my first game i ever played was ghosts and goblins
second game i played was dick tracy
That is coming from growing up in my generation.
Neo nintendo is shit
>>339546959
Is that an argument or are you just letting me know?
>>339546219
Smash 3DS outsold Melee by a million. Wii U version didn't outsell because there aren't enough Wii U owners to begin with, but it's still one of the best-selling games on the console.
>>339547135
>second game i played was dick tracy
I bet you enjoyed playing with Dick.
>>339547135
86 here, your opinion is silly.
>>339547135
>The nes came out in 85
>My mom and dad and uncle and sister would play that allllllllll day and night trying to beat each other in the game and they would all struggle.
>beat each other in the game
>the nes game, you know, that one.
kk whatever you say homie. still waiting on those stats brah
>>339547221
A lot of people didn't get a wii u cause of 3ds smash. But I think a wii u only wouldn't have mattered much cause no one wants a wii u
>>339547529
You're right, no got a wii u because of 3DS smash, because 3ds smash is on the 3ds.
>>339544095
B-but Flash fans are pretty cool dudes.
>>339542042
>Melee was a smashing success
It's the worst game in the franchise. What do you mean success?
>>339547120
Why do people keep on mentioning the sales of these games without taking the install base into account?
>>339547664
flash character wise is for plebs.
>Speed force shit.
>>339543324
People abandoned the Gamecube because of lackluster 3rd party support. Notice Halo didn't stop the PS2 from dominating.
>>339547723
Because we're talking about raw sales. If we're talking about just sales, Brawl is easily the highest selling game
>>339547723
Install base isn't a factor really. Why didn't more people buy a gamecube if it is such a great thing?
>>339547794
Wally West was the best Flash
>>339547697
Yeah so bad that in 2000 i waited on a 56k connection for a hour for a 20 second video and i watched it about 30 times
>>339547318
i am just saying from my point of view from growing up from what i did if you came after me and did not see what i said you have no right to talk
>>339547723
Who cares.
I'm not talking about the install base. I'm calling out on the OP for being wrong.
>"If Brawl had been a proper Melee successor, it would have sold as much"
Wrong.
>>339547794
>not liking speed force
>>339547723
kk we'll take install base into account.
Gamecube sold 21 million units and melee sold 7 million.
Wii u sold 11 million units and smash sold 4 million .
33% of gamecube owners owned melee.
36% of wii u owners own Smash 4. And that isn't including the 8 million 3ds players.
>>339548040
Not saying people behind the mask can't be cool, but speed force is shit. Flash needs to go through a superman power down
>>339548259
What's that got to do with Brawl? I was responding to >>339547120
>>339548197
No one fucking cares when you were born, what system you grew up with, what game you played, who played it and when you illiterate fuck. We are talking about sales.
Smash was originally designed to literally be baby's first fighter. It has the simplest controller scheme of any fighter, and encourages random elements like stage hazards and items so that beginners will also have a chance to score a comeback against better players.
Why do Melee autists somehow think that Nintendo would abandon the literally-everyone demographic Smash appeals and focus exclusively on the small-ass tourney cult that sprung up over Melee's happy accident?
>>339548310
Why?
>>339545370
Then, tell me, should the devs deliberately fuck over their game that made people like it more just because "muh vision", or should they learn from what made the game work better than expected and ADD upon it for the greater good of entertainment? Because if you choose the former, tell me this, does that make the makers of Street Fighter retarded for keeping "combos" in their games pass SF1 because in said game it wasn't planned to be a feature in the game but people used it because it made the game more fun? Should SF just be comboless because "muh vision didn't have these "exploits"", despite that's why your fans love the game now?
>>339548523
Same reason you don't see superman sneeze destroying galaxies anymore, it's fucking stupid
>>339548920
Flash doesn't do that either
>>339544037
Like I said, its a exploit.
An exploit:
-Is known about by the developers. They know its there.
-Leaving it in is not acceptance to let it be used a lot. Leaving it in is acceptance that it exists, and wasn't expected to impact the game very much.
-People ended up playing entirely based on knowing it exists, therefore they are exploiting it to move in ways you shouldn't be able to.
>>339544837
Strategy guide points out DI.
Strategy guide points out SDI.
Strategy guide points out Wall jumping.
Those aren't exploits. Wave dashing is a exploit, its exploiting how the physics in the game work, and exploiting what the developers knew was put into the game, expecting it to make no impact to the game at all, or very little impact.
>>339548534
Melee's crazy technical fighting only appeals to a small demographic. This isn't the Lucas-esque "vision" you're making it out to be. If the public wanted a super hardcore Smash fighter, then 3DS Smash and Brawl wouldn't be the best-selling games in the franchise.
Smash was always designed with beginners in mind with an ultra-simplistic control scheme and items to accommodate them. Street Fighter was designed for hardcore competitive play and requires complex motions because it's a more skilled game. Why do you believe Smash needs to be Street Fighter?
I was the best at Brawl compared to the others and had the most fun with it.
>>339548534
>made people like it more
I know you Meleefags are loud, but that doesn't mean you represent even 1% of Smash Bros players.
>>339542042
>Why did he dumb down Smash Bros? Melee was a smashing success
answer already presented
smash bros = success
smash bros + dumbed down = melee
melee = bigger success
melee + dumbed down = brawl
brawl = even bigger success
>>339549342
>I was the best at Brawl compared to the others
Same here
> and had the most fun with it.
I still played Melee way more.
>>339549274
Rally > May
>>339545604
>that why the rate goes up the higher your % is
This isn't true
>>339549448
Agreed, but /v/ never posts good reaction images of her.
>>339542176
they're basically the dotatards of the fighting game genre
>>339548513
>Why do Melee autists somehow think that Nintendo would abandon the literally-everyone demographic Smash appeals and focus exclusively on the small-ass tourney cult that sprung up over Melee's happy accident?
I don't even want them too, they have no idea what actually made Melee good in the first place. Look at what happened when they tried with the Omega stages. They fell for the Fox Only Final Destination meme and it made For Glory boring shitat least combined with the game being slow and kind of boring anyway. If they tried to actually make a melee sequel it would probably be fucking awful.
I wouldn't say no to a melee HD though. Maybe even sometoggleablebalance updates.
>>339542506
they never made hardcore games to begin with
>>339548920
Why?
>>339549783
>They fell for the Fox Only Final Destination meme
gee, i wonder why it became a meme in the first place
>>339542042
>letting an ayyy lmao design your game
>>339549783
>They fell for the Fox Only Final Destination meme
FD was Brawl's most played stage. Not that you would know.
I think it's more that they stopped giving a shit in general. Brawl added less new mechanics and features than Melee did, and Smash 4 has less content than Brawl. I don't just mean having a fuckton of content, I mean stuff like gameplay mechanics, modes, 1-player content. It's been dropping off in every game. Sakurai was done with the series after Melee, but it was too much of a cash cow.
People should just choke on my smash links instead.
https://mynintendonews.com/2014/10/01/sakurai-says-the-process-of-creating-smash-bros-character-takes-over-a-year/
http://sourcegaming.info/2015/08/17/sakuraibrawlquestions/
http://nintendoeverything.com/sakurai-on-the-need-to-appeal-to-all-types-of-gamers-new-smash-bros-more-interesting-than-the-others/
http://www.eventhubs.com/news/2013/jun/21/sakurai-says-smash-bros-isnt-fighting-game-completely-different-label-talks-game-development-fighting-genre-and-value-unpredictability/
http://smashboards.com/threads/dispute-ended-new-sakurai-intervew-wavedashing-was-intentional.162416/
http://www.eventhubs.com/news/2013/aug/14/sakurai-if-someone-else-made-smash-bros-type-game-it-wouldnt-be-successful-because-theyd-lack-my-strong-personal-criteria/
Hopefully this answers OP's questions.
>>339543402
If "wavedashing" was intentional, then why didn't they talk about it in their "how to play" video tutorial?
>>339548259
smash was also on the 3ds
>>339549923
Because /v/ is literally retarded and fell for their own bait?
When that meme was popular (around Brawl's announcement) there were often top 8s without a single Fox.
>>339546739
It's just as fast, but things like no Z-Cancels and momentum not carrying through jumps makes it feel more Brawl like.
>>339549274
>>339549348
I love Smash generally speaking. I started with Melee, than played Brawl first day. I loved the game quite well, but Melee was honestly more fun to play after playing for longer timespands. Yes "Brawl sold more than Melee" because people came from Melee expecting Melee 2.0 AND newcomers came to Brawl as well. Meaning more than HALF of Meleefags in numbers of people came into Brawl for the first time, adding those numbers. Why the fuck are people defending Brawl to shitpost Melee making it seem like 99% of Brawl's audience is completely newcomers and just because it sold more, makes that mean a God damn thing to Melee's sells? There's no correlation. Each Smash install base WILL by proxy have more fans joining into the Smash series from those that started from the earlier titles, to add to the newcomers.
My stance isn't about "muh sells" here, every faggot in here seems to have a fetish about that shit for some reason. My point is about "No casual fans were turned off by wave dashing and other AT. If Brawl had been a proper Melee successor, it would have sold as much." that OP stated. That's what I want to see proof of, and no one is talking about that, just "muh sales" that means jack shit.
>>339550072
> if-someone-else-made-smash-bros-type-game-it-wouldnt-be-successful-because-theyd-lack-my-strong-personal-criteria/
Fucking hilarious, almost makes me want to check out that link
>>339546219
You gotta realize the install base for the Wii was much larger than the Wii U's with each respective smash bros release
>>339546062
The average falling, running, jumping, and attacking speeds are way lower than Melee with or without wavedashing. Even without L-cancelling, which was a wholly intended Melee mechanic, Smash 4 is way slower.
>>339546332
Where are you getting your numbers cause I can make up statistics too
>>339546219
>After literally everyone was rused they wised up and that is why you see Tr4sh sell like it did.
he says while it sold over 12 million copies
>>339550309
>No casual fans were turned off by wave dashing and other AT
this
>>339549923
Because people that don't play melee don't understand how important platforms are.
>>339550019
>FD was Brawl's most played stage. Not that you would know
Why would I play Brawl?
>>339550601
why would you play melee?
>>339550501
>>339550309
>No casual fans were turned off by wave dashing and other AT
Literally all of 2007 on /v/ was making fun of tryhard tourneyfags taking Smash so seriously and CLACK-CLACK-CLACKING on gamecube controllers.
Tourneyfags were the most obnoxious fuckers. You still are, apparently.
>>339550601
>Why would I play Brawl?
If you didn't play the game, don't act like a fucking know-it-all and get all anusmad when you're called out on your bullshit, fart commander.
>>339550786
/v/ aren't casual fans, though. They're shit at the game but they're just as invested as the tourneyfags. Casuals are people who aren't even aware that l-cancelling and wavedashing exist, the true silent super-majority.
>>339550786
>Literally all of 2007 on /v/ was making fun of tryhard tourneyfags taking Smash so seriously and CLACK-CLACK-CLACKING on gamecube controllers.
That didn't stop you from buying Melee did it? You could make fun of tourneyfags all you want and still play the game without them
>>339550312
Has anybody here heard of Cartoon Network Punch Time Explosion XL? it's exactly the same as Smash, except the physics are a little shittier and the graphics are anus.
>>339542042
>no casual fans were turned off by wave dashing and other AT
Because when it first released, nobody fucking knew about that garbage.
Fast forward 15 years, the only people who believe it has lived on as long as it has are people who whore themselves out on all the "techs" and wavedashing they can get.
>>339551048
it got old after awhile and everyone moved on
>>339550786
they made fun of them because they werent good
https://twitter.com/EVO/status/737745557846786048
well then
>>339542042
>melee was a smashing success
>smashing
>>339551156
its not a real fighting game anon
>>339551048
Melee came out in 2001 you fucking baka. And back then, every public casual gathering of Melee I went to had some obnoxious tourneyfags shitting up the place. That's why so many people made OC based on shitty tourneyfags, because they were so rampant.
>>339546219
lmao
>>339551162
DELEET THIS!
>>339551148
>>339551304
So did Tourneyfags convince you not to buy Melee or not?
Because he wanted to be done with Melee
Brawl was already on development before he got put on as supervisor
And Nintendo's goal with Brawl was to attract newcomers
Sakurai did his best with Sm4sh to keep it more competitive but keeping the new gameplay mechanics Brawl brought in, and for the most part Sm4sh does have great mechanics
Except people will pretend they are bad to keep their Melee ego's and shitposting high
Specifically getting rid of Edgehogging for free kills
>anticompetitive game from 2014 has more entrants than competitive game from 2001
>still has less viewers even when given a better timeslot and nintendo twitter shilling
the salt from tr4sh fanboys over genesis was hilarious
>>339551434
no, I got it as a kid then played it with my family/friends and I moved on to the next smash when it was released
>>339551669
So what makes you think having advanced tech in Smash 4 would keep people from buying it
>>339551434
I know I would be a lot less inclined to play Smash online if it still had Melee's mechanics.
>>339550786
> You still are, apparently.
You lot really are too anal over a simple comment.
Stop assuming.
Anyways, it's called the fucking internet. New to it? Because 99% of people made the "They fell for the Fox Only Final Destination meme" mentioned above a thing because they just wanted to shitpost the people that took Melee really seriously. Again, that does not tell that people that "casually" played Melee didn't like the likes of washdash and all those other "high tech" functionalities being in the game. Brawl was actively dumbed down for the casual audience, to a point it changed Smash forever "for better or worse". The point still stands, did it make "If Brawl had been a proper Melee successor, it would have sold as much" an invalid statement, without relying on fucking sales shit? There's no proof Brawl would have sold worse than Melee, that's the point here.
>>339542042
>Why did he dumb down Smash Bros? Melee was
Stopped reading there. Melee is dogshit with maybe 2 or 3 viable characters and the most embarrassing comp players of all time, they make rap songs of each other to issue challenges.
Smash is for fun. If you want tech, I assure you that you'll find more depth in even the easiest Street Fighter game.
>>339551601
>>still has less viewers even when given a better timeslot and nintendo twitter shilling
That didn't happen last tourney.
look, smashfags, i don't give a fuck how you yiff in your own time, but DO NOT get comfortable in the fgc.
it's only a matter of time before the sheeple realise and kick your sorry asses out of here.
>>339551234
a fake fighting game that is better than real fighting games
>>339551842
I love Smash to death, it's easily one of my favorite game franchises period, but even I can tell you that it doesn't belong in the FGC, let alone at EVO.
>>339551531
>Specifically getting rid of Edgehogging for free kills
>getting rid of Edgehogging
>Edgehogging
>>339551913
>>339542130
Get out. GET THE FUCK OUT.
>>339552009
name a fighting game that is as old as Melee that is still being played now at professional level, that draws in equal or greater amounts of attention on twitch or in person.
>>339544095
Mfw my autistic brother is obsessed with trains
>poorfags still crying about people playing a better game instead of still playing Melee
>>339552358
maybe? ok not really
>>339552358
Street Fighter II is still being played at a professional level.
You got me on twitch attention, though, nothing will ever compete with the obsessive Melee fanbase.
>>339552358
What a surprise, if you hand a child an action figure and a lego set the action figure is liable to get more playtime in its simplicity because the child isn't going to spend the time learning how to make anything intricate with the lego set.
They'll spend a couple of minutes building a shitty stack tower, get frustrated/bored, and then pick up the action figure again. This is the case with Melee.
>>339550167
The same reason L-cancelling isnt mentioned either
>>339552741
>What a surprise, if you hand a child an action figure and a lego set the action figure is liable to get more playtime
Shut the fuck up you dumb nigger that's the opposite of the truth
>>339546959
>nobody played a game with Mr. Killzone, Nathan Drake, and Striped Angryman
No shit?
>>339546219
>sell like it did
Sell better?
>>339552007
Yeah and making everybody recoveries go under final destination
>>339552959
Lego is played with almost exclusively by kids going into their teenage years, up to adults who collect the cool Lego setpieces of whatever movie or game it got the license from.
Children on the other hand, can't yet grasp the intricacy of how to put together Lego models and the like so action figures are the beloved choice. This works well as an allegory for Melee players, perpetual children stumped by real fighting games that can't move beyond their Smash stage.
>>339553265
right, so you can't provide anything that is more relevant than Melee despite the fact that it's almost 15 years old now. Glad we could agree.
So sad that those, lol, "real" fighting games like SF5 are dead on arrival these days :(
Nintendo, as a company, peaked with the gamecube. It's been tumbling downhill ever since. I happily played every Nintendo system from the NES to the GC. I thought the Wii looked like shit but I decided to trust Nintendo and camped overnight for it. Biggest vidya disappointment of my life. And all the Wii U had done is carry on that shitty legacy.
>>339553265
>Lego is played with almost exclusively by kids going into their teenage years, up to adults who collect the cool Lego setpieces of whatever movie or game it got the license from.
Fuck you I was playing with lego since I was like 6
>>339553473
Much as you think that bothers me, and as much as I like SFV at its core, I'm glad it's struggling because Street Fighter's success has been causing Capcom to crumble as a whole for years now and maybe this will inspire them to get it together before it's over for good.
No matter what happens to them though, real fighting games will continue to progress while Melee and its competitive scene are stuck in the past, obsessing over a single character and 15-year-old tech that doesn't even get as complex as Street Fighter's bare basics.
>>339542042
i feel your pain OP. Too bad contrarians on /v/ will always tip their fedoras as usual. They don't understand our strive.
>>339551778
>If Brawl had been a proper Melee successor, it would have sold as much" an invalid statement, without relying on fucking sales shit?
>disprove a statement about sales without using sales
Lol, okay.
>>339553530
YEP /thread right here.
>>339553789
How does it feel to be bad at video games?
Is it similar to when they told you that you were "special" in school?
>>339542042
Sakurai doesn't want Smash to be a game where you need to practice to participate like a typical fighting game. It seems one of his greatest concerns with Smash is not scaring off newcomers who just want to jump in.
>>339553530
This anon know his shit.
>>339542042
Supposedly it was actually Iwata who wanted it slowed down and simplified (if I'm not mistaken, Sakurai went on record saying that Brawl's combat felt "boring" compared to Melee's), and for better reason than I'd like to admit. Consider this: the Wii sold several times as much as the GC, and Brawl outsold Melee by several million. Thus, you have at least a few million people who have Brawl but never owned a GC, and thus don't have GC controllers. Now try imagining playing Melee with a Wiimote, even casually. THAT is why Brawl was nerfed. I wish that it didn't have to be that way; in addition to having cool content, Melee just feels terrific instead of just "acceptable as an excuse to make Nintendo characters fight each other," but there really was no other choice.
But who am I kidding, you'll just keep blaming Sakurai because it's easier and more satisfying to imagine him as evil incarnate or whatever.
>>339554242
>Deflection and ad hominem
I'll lead you to simmer, clutch your GC controller to your chest and watch some more Mew2King montages, or whatever it is you do.
>>339554535
>I'll lead you to simmer
What did he mean by this?
>>339554535
smash tourneyfags are infinitely less cringeworthy than sf tourneyfags
why is this?
>>339546332
That isn't what having more content means, are you insane?
>mfw all these nintoddlers trying to justify their Wii and Wii-U purchases
Nintendo officially died after GameCube
>>339542042
Because Smash is a dumb party game for kids. That's what it is supposed to be, and that's what it always will be.
No amount of whining will change that.
>>339542042
I don't care that you can't waveyiff, funcancel, and all that other stuff anymore. I care about the games being fun and exciting. Smash 4 and brawl are both boring as shit and everyone plays like a complete faggot. The items have become obnoxious as fuck too and I have to turn off like 4/5s of them to have any fun. You can't even have proper pokeball fights anymore. I don't know about the technicalities, but the newer games feel worse than melee. The only real upside is that the graphics got better and they added a bunch of new stuff. Even then a lot of it feells half-assed especially in 4
I'm pretty sure most of the mechanical tightness and competitive-minded changes (l-cancelling nerf, spot/airdodging, DI, wall techs, even things like the PAL balance changes, and the Home Run Contest extension) can be attributed to HAL Labs, who also produced similarly mechanically tight and interesting Kirby games. After they were switched out for Sora, these areas of the games received little focus.
>>339554767
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KhsOW-_TwfU
Sure.
>>339554942
But Brawl added rar and b-reversing
>>339554056
Read >>339550309
Now, fucking read, and stop goalpost moving.
>>339554962
I'll take PS LEFFEN I AIN'T DONE YET over literal wifebeaters and roly-poly autists every day of the week.
>>339554929
>2 players goof off in a tourney match
oh man you NEVER see anything like this in melee tournaments ever. nope they never, ever stall in those tournaments ever.
>>339554424
But did Melee scare off newcomers? I remember I was like 10 when Melee came out and I was total shit at it. I only used B attacks because I thought A attacks were too weak. It wasn't until I got to the event match against Ganondorf that I realized I'd actually need to use my A moves to win. I was that bad at the game and Melee didn't scare me away.
>>339551601
All i saw was melee fags posting the same picture of 90k viewers vs 110k viewers like that was somehow a blow to Smash 4. You seem insecure
>>339542176
Fox because Furfags main him.
>>339555003
Are those intended mechanics, though? I'm genuinely unsure. There's also pivot grabbing, which is a legitimate Brawl addition for sure.
Still, it definitely pales in comparison to what Melee added.
>>339554929
Let's play Melee so I can ledgestall for 8 minutes and win :)
Or if you realllly wanna fight I'll laser camp you as a spacie, how about that?
Baddie
>>339554793
All of them look like pathetic white dudes. Save for the Asian.
>>339554767
All I have to do is say Mew2King + couch to prove that statement false. As far as autistic fanbase goes. It's up there with MLP and sonic
>>339555414
Melee tournaments don't go to timer every 2-3 games, in fact you'll only see a game go to bracket ones every couple years in Melee
>>339551601
Except there was no salt
It was Melee fags never shutting the fuck up and needing to repost an image 3,000 times
>>339555251
No, because it didn't have that reputation yet, but suppose the series continued to evolve in that direction and cater to high technical skill and dedication. I don't know if this would happen or not, but Sakurai thinks the fanbase would dwindle to only the competitive players. Think about who plays Street Fighter vs who plays Smash, and why they play it.
>>339542042
If Melee is so perfect why do people want an HD edition?
>>339555804
Mostly so we don't have to haul CRTs everywhere.
>>339555772
I know plenty of casuals who will play Street fighter and know very little about it
>>339555568
Your top player,Hungrybox, literally made a name for himself by spamming and camping and timing out. And that is considered peak Melee play. Sadly, most Melee players are too retarded to realize how easy and rewarding camping is, so they can't reach Hbox's level.
>>339555772
That would never happen because even toddlers can play melee or any other smash game and smash will always have a huge fanbase due to nintendo characters.
Melee's gameplay is more fun once you crack the eggshell and meet friends who are into it too.
Even casual melee is better.
Ever played a free for all in Pokefloats where all the players know their tech and shit? Powershielding homerun bats and reflecting pokeballs, let's go.
Also I can actually have fun playing Ganondorf in melee compared to bore-all and tr4sh.
If meleefags like competition so much, why don't they move on to actual fighting games?
It's like being mad that tricycles aren't built for the Tour de France.
>>339555948
>Your top player,Hungrybox, literally made a name for himself by spamming and camping and timing out.
newfag detected
>>339555772
Street Fighter V exclusively pandered to esport tourneyfags and it sold like absolute shit.
>>339551140
>he didn't wavedash against his friends in 2001
what a cuck....
>>339543021
How do people make collective screen caps like this?
Is it one person going through multiple episodes, or multiple people going through episodes and then someone else combining it?
I'd really like to know.
>>339556156
I don't get your logic.
People love melee, have fun with it, and still advance the meta and discover new things up to this day.
Why would they "move on"? Because the game is old?
>>339546959
Smash clones always play like Unreal Tournament modded as a Crash Bash parody.
Pretty much a game you'd buy...then drop...try to pick it back up but remember why you dropped it
>>339555948
That's totally false. The most notable time where Hbox stalled out was at last EVO. And people hated it. It was not something he made his name doing.
Melee fans: ironic hipster millenials, listen to death grips and other meme bands, smoke weed and talk about it constantly, fuck strangers, circlejerk in facebook meme groups, have anime lolis as profile pictures on steam, violently attack everything that isn't Melee, virginal, spend all free time on /v/, massive victim complexes
Smash 4 fans: well adjusted, well meaning individuals, usually enjoy all smash games, have a steady job and life partner, friendly
>>339555039
You read, fagmeister.
>>339556417
I'm talking about the autists who are angry that recent Smash titles aren't made for competitive play.
>>339556514
He's going to time his way to EVO victory. That is Melee's endgame.
>>339556728
Have you watched any of his games since EVO?
>>339556628
>ironic hipster millenials
I'm an ironic millenial not a hipster though.
>listen to death grips and other meme bands
Noided.
>smoke weed and talk about it constantly
I don't talk about it but man there's a ton of free weed in melee tournaments, can't pass it up.
>fuck strangers
Guilty. There's ton of free sex in big tournaments.
>circlejerk in facebook meme groups
Super guilty. Sieg hiel, Melee hell
>have anime lolis as profile pictures on steam
Who the fuck even uses steam
>violently attack everything that isn't Melee
Check.
>virginal
Check previous
>spend all free time on /v/
How to get out?
>massive victim complexes
Not really.
I main Peach, AMA.
>>339555948
Actually it's historically been Armada timing out HBox, and even then that only happened a couple times. I can count the number of time outs in significant games over the past decade on one hand
I can't count all the Abadongo games that go to timer in one tournament on one hand.
Why would Sakurai pander to a dwindling number of manchildren vs millions of children with disposable income?
Competitive Smash was accidental.
>>339556902
>I main Peach, AMA.
When did you find out you liked fucking dudes?
>>339554793
>m2k isn't in this pic
y tho
>>339557286
After smoking a ton and fucking my best friend in the ass.
Don't worry, it was consensual. Despite maining Peach, Im top.
>>339554793
None of them are remotely attractive.
>>339555483
>asian
There's not a single asian in there.
I don't like how Smash fans seem so hostile with each other. Like they feel the need to constantly put each other down. Why can't the communities get along?
>>339557680
Don't worry, man. It's super exaggerated online.
At tournaments people are either cool with each other or pay no mind.
>>339557653
On the left
>>339557875
On the left there's
2 Hispanics
3 White guys
1 Muslim
1 Swedecuck
Where's the asian?
>>339558000
Upper right
>>339549783
> Look at what happened when they tried with the Omega stages. They fell for the Fox Only Final Destination meme and it made For Glory boring shit
Japanese competitive players used Final Destination. Since Sakurai is also Japanese, as well as Nintendo, they made Omega stages to be FD.
Now, if Sakurai was smart and listened to foreign fans as well, he could have made Alpha versions of the stages in Battlefield mode as well, to satisfy both groups of competitive players. but since Japan doesn't give a shit about what anyone outside of it thinks, you're stuck with FD.
>>339554793
I don't even know who most of those fags are. Where are Esam and Mr. R?
Melee was a accident Smash was never supposed to be that way get over it already
>>339554519
If this is true, then it really makes a lot of sense as to why Sakurai still talks good about Melee from time to time. We just don't know everything that happens at Nintendo so all we do is go off of what others have said
64 is cool
>>339554519
>>339560641
Sakurai is still a huge asshole for giving us Dark Pit, and making Samus so shit she can't even jab properly, as well as pic related
>Smash tournaments
>Smash 4 threads on /v/
>Nothing but non stop shitposting.
>Even when a good match happens, nothing but shitposting.
>Legitimate complaints, like being sick of Scarflard winning, get drowned out by the constant shitposting storm.
>No respect for any smash 4 matches at all.
>Melee thread on /v/
>Non stop e sports circle jercking.
>People talking about how badly they want to suck Leffen's dick, and the "gods of melee"
>People cheering for fox vs fox
>People defending fox vs fox
>Nobody talking about gameplay, just cheering for their favorite e sports celebrities
>Anybody giving actual complaints gets drowned out by Leffen chanting
Why does /v/ always have to turn to shit when a big Smash tournament starts happening? Smash needs its own forum so the retards can fight amongst themselves there instead of ruining /v/ with their constant shitposting on both games.
>>339559732
Link to the past was a accident Legend of zelda was never supposed to be that way get over it already.
>>339561878
hey i just play melee could give a fuck about big tournaments I legitely like playing the game and old school golden era nintendo games.
>>339561759
Why do people whine so fucking much about characters with swords? The only ones who play anything alike are the three or four clones/semi-clones. Do you also bitch about all the people who punch?
Or is your rage because most of the sword-users happen to be humans and elves who happen to resemble one of the styles of Japanese animation?
>>339562002
This is me. I generally hate Melee fanboys in person. They're strange.
>>339542042
>Melee was a smashing success
>>339562340
I just think people just like playing and seeing someone who they think they can become.
>>339561759
>and making Samus so shit she can't even jab properly
She was fixed, autist. No wonder Nintendo hates you autistic faggotrons so goddamn motherfucking much.
>>339562475
shitty controls and dumbing down characters that is usually fun
I think you are pathetic
>>339562475
None of those changes affected anything. She still has all of the same problems she had when the game first came out, and the biggest ones weren't touched at all.
>>339562737
its almost like neo nintendo did not even play the character they were creating when developing this game.
>>339562737
>>339562814
>>339562557
Fucking cry moar, you fucking baby. Do you fucking want your fucking bottle or your fucking blanky, fucking fuckwad?
>>339562814
Back at the tournament Nintendo held, Sakurai said Samus was the best character in the game. But you'll notice no one used her in the tournament at all. And when the game came out she was absolute dogshit and even the game tells you not to use some of her attacks. Why the fuck did Sakurai do this, and why does he have such a hatred for Metroid?
>>339561878
>not liking fox v fox
like, third most interesting and exciting matchup in the game
Fox Falco > Fox Marth(on not-FD) > Fox Fox
>>339563047
Here's the (You) you so desperately wanted, don't spend it all in one place.
>>339563234
No they just have hatred to actually make a decent game. I am talking about the whole company
>>339563047
So people are saying that nintendo has shitty game design and they are not willing to advance on what they make anymore.
What is the purpose of them
I think it is their downfall.
Speaking of tr4sh, is Bayo still completely broken?
>>339554519
This is also why Brawl has random input delay, in order to level the playing field between people using wiimotes and people using GC controllers.
That said, Sakurai may not be the source of the problem but he's certainly a willing executioner.
>>339563612
Latest patch was only for her and it gutted all of her combo potential. She's just like everyone else now.
