Is he right?
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Is he right?
>>339536149
i agree with this. the NX better make me a fucking director
![quote-donkey-kong-country-proves-that-players-will-put-up-with-mediocre-gameplay-as-long-as-shigeru-miyamoto-70-79-95[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/3BK11CQ.jpg "quote-donkey-kong-country-proves-that-players-will-put-up-with-mediocre-gameplay-as-long-as-shigeru-miyamoto-70-79-95[1].jpg")
.
He's a senile old man who has archaic beliefs on what games should be? What do you think?
>>339536794
Did he seriously say this?
>>339536149
Yeah I mean, stories in games are great, but I disagree that immersion is more important - In fact I think that it's pretty obvious that most people prefer gameplay above all else.
I think Miyamato is too old and has way too much power over Nintendo. I really think that they need some young blood who actually enjoy vidya to take over.
Miyamoto is fucking senile and should have retired long ago.
>>339536149
He should die already just like iwata
>>339536149
>Have a bunch of great IPs like Paper Mario, Metroid, F-Zero, Star Fox, Mario, Zelda, Pokemon, etc.
>Completely fuck them all up somehow, or don't even bother releasing them because of some retarded vision
Thanks Miyamoto you old fuck
>>339536149
Based Miyamoto.
>>339536149
This is all he has right now. Phrases.
I imagine Miyamoto wandering through one of TLoU's dialogue hallways where there's fuck-all to do other than walk forward and listen to characters talk, head slumped over in boredom with one thumb on the controller to push the analog.
Dude clearly doesn't give a shit about stories in video games, which is fine. I'd prefer if more games had the narrative equivalent to "Bowser kidnapped Peach, go" instead of cutscenes every two minutes.
>>339537091
>Did he seriously say this?
No.
>>339537091
No
http://www.nintendolife.com/news/2010/06/turns_out_shigeru_miyamoto_does_like_donkey_kong_country
>>339537365
>Metroid
>Pokemon
Where was he involved?
>Mario
when did this happen?
>Zelda
Zeldafags normally blame Anouma
>>339536794
>>339537091
>Did he seriously say this?
Almost certainly not. He denied it in an interview here
http://www.nintendolife.com/news/2010/06/turns_out_shigeru_miyamoto_does_like_donkey_kong_country
He also had plenty on input on the game, and it's very un-Japanese to not only bash the product your company is selling, but bash all Americans (the original quote was "American players will put up with mediocre gameplay") for a game developed by a British studio and also sold very well in Japan.
The quote seems to originate from a book called "The Ultimate History of Video Games: From Pong to Pokemon" written by Steven Kent, who was a fairly prolific "games journalist" in the 90's. In it, he cites this quote coming from an interview he did for a magazine. The problems are he supposedly had this interview in-person with both Miyamoto and one of the Stamper brothers. This is unlikely because not only do these people live and work on opposite ends of the Earth for 99% of their schedules, by the Stamper brothers infamously never gave interviews to anyone (until after they retired). He also cites an issue that supposedly came out on a date after the magazine in question had been discontinued.
I think he just made it up to pad out his book with a shitthatdidnthappen.txt
>>339536149
He is. Not that games can't or shouldn't also tell great stories, but their primary strength as a medium is as he stated.
>>339536149
It's pretty fun that the exact same man also told a joke about folding toilet paper and wiping your ass with your finger.
I'm not joking. Watch this video if you don't believe me: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WKFfVAFKZ50
>>339536149
>they're creating something only they could create
This thought process is why faggots think youtubers are creating new content by playing video games and that they own that content. And no, plenty of people will tell you that they feel like they're in the world when reading. The rest of what he says is what video games should be though.
Yes. If you want to tell a story, write a book.
>>339538548
"Ring the bells, get the Lord souls, go."
Some enough right? Until you discover that there's actually a lot of lore and story.
I don't want NO story. I just don't want it shoved in my face in every game or not even be there at all (mario)
He's absolutely right.
Elements on their own can make for a decent or sometimes outstanding experience (Rocket League a recent example) but without really, really knowing what you're doing or striking gold, going balls deep into your pretentious story or 'totally never done before guys' platforming gimmick doesn't produce a good experience.
>>339536687
You will direct your cash to the pockets of Nintendo employees, and then you will do this 3 more times as there will only be 3 games worth buying on NX.
he acts as if the story is separate or distinct from the experience in the second quote. that's totally false.
Miyamoto still thinks we're in the 80s and that games are about high scores and press B to jump
>>339539941
What if I want story and gameplay
Story adds depth and gives reason for the gameplay
Games can be fun without story. But doing "save the princess" for the billionth time gets old
>>339540376
As long as you don't ever forget about the gameplay, that's a reasonable thing to ask for.
>>339536149
And then he made Starfox Zero.
He hasn't made a memorable experience since the Gamecube. Why should we take this claim as gospel?
>>339536149
>cannot experience through film or literature
This is bullshit.
>>339538756
The man goes back and forth all the fucking time. He's lost his mind. How many times has he gone back and forth now on whether or not Mario has a last name? One second it was the Mario Bros. from the beginning, then it was a mistranslation, then it was "The movie called him mario mario and i thought that was funny so i made it canon", then it was "it was funny but its not canon mario is like mickey mouse???and doesn't have a last name"
Citing a shiggy interview where he denies something is worthless.
>>339536149
yea too bad he lost sight and just rehashed the same idea over and over
>All these words
>Releases Starfox Zero which is basically Starfox 64 which is basically Starfox with no added lore, story, and only mediocre graphics/gameplay, forcing you to use the wii gamepad as a controller.
Yeah I'm onto you Miyamoto you fucker
>>339540840
miyamoto probably doesn't give a shit about mario's full name and gave conflicting answers over 30 years because he didn't think anyone would be so autistic to care
>>339540738
N64*
OoT was his last memorable game.
>>339541248
he's the most autistic person in the world when it comes to mario
>>339539669
>or not even be there at all (mario)
You implying Mario games should have any consistent story at all outside of some spinoffs? Because that's terrible.
>>339539002
What time in the video? I'm not watching all of that.
>>339540840
Well then I guess it's a good thing I made other arguments too.
the sentiment is right but i dont think he has the ability to create good games anymore. see: starfox zero
>>339541696
Can't remember. I watched it like a week ago. It's somewhere in there, though.
Based Miyamoto telling dirty jokes in broken English.
>>339540738
Because he came up with games that influenced entire genres back in the 80s and 90s.
>>339536687
ill direct my dick into your ass faggot
>>339539669
Dark memes is a shit game though
>>339537365
>there are people that want a new F-Zero despite the fact it will be raped by nu-Nintendo
>>339541431
Nope. He is pretty autistic when it comes to mario tho, but it's natural since he created it and makes a living out of him.
The thing is that there is people that allows themselves to be even more autistic about him than Miyamoto himself.
If miyamoto doesn't give a shit about Mario's lore, you probably should not bother either.
>>339541431
Really? I've never gotten the impression that he was autistic about it. Certainly not in a big way.
>>339541534
No, not a consistent story. I don't want a 5-game Mario story adventure
But look at paper Mario or Mario RPG's, they've got their own stories
>>339543132
The thing is, it's not that he doesn't care if Mario has lore or not, it's that he's fucking retardedly, militantly against any sort of story or lore happening in a mario game
He's 100% correct
Story means shit, especially if there is no gameplay to back it up.
We have an entire new generation of devs who want to be "creators" and have their name on the fucking box and get big publishing deals and be seen as rockstars to the press and fans.
There's a reason why Mario 64 still holds up today and it's not because Bowser kidnapped Peach for the millionth time.
Contrast that with something like Uncharted which tries so fucking hard to be a "visceral and cinematic Hollywood experience," with scripted sequences that provide no replay after you've beaten it, and too many jack of all trade, master of few genres it tries to cover. But in reality it's just that a try hard wannabe Hollywood film posing as a video game. Sure it does things better than a lot of other games, but they all suffer from the same problem. Film school and writing rejects who think they are somehow "artists."
>>339543554
if you want lore in a mario game you should kill yourself
Shovel Knight is like 1000x better than any mario game in recent memory.
>>339544345
More of an action game than a regular platformer like Mario, but I agree.
>>339543961
ok mr. strawman, but i didn't say i did want it in a mario game. i don't even own a nintendo console, couldn't give a shit about the series or the story involved. the fact that he is so militantly against it though, is extremely fucking autistic.
>>339543872
I never understood why it was so hard for people like you to ever appreciate or understand that multiple genres of video games exist and they are just as legitimate as the next one. I can guarantee you've never played Uncharted 4 as well yet speak as if you know the game from back to front.
You also talk as if the entire Metal Gear series and its cinematic style of story and character development is utter shit and you act as if those games would have been popular regardless if they were game play only.
The result of him being ''100% correct'' is his current offerings to the video game industry are the most mediocre, dated, technically inferior and boring ass games he's ever created in his entire life where as Uncharted make leaps in bounds in terms of technical detail, superb character animations and voice action, graphical techniques and tools that will be used and later recycled to third party developers(watch dogs 2), and proved the importance of tight, linear well crafted level design in an era of flat open world trash. I mean I could go on but..
>>339536149
It's a noble goal, but he's wrong. I never felt that when I was a kid. I didn't feel like I myself was crafting a unique experience, only that I was being fed one. I don't care to have that feeling either. The things that drew me in to games was certainly the gameplay, but it was always backed up by story in most games.
Games that touched me were never from gameplay either. They were from story, either active, or passive. The reason that the story was touching? From being immersed. Games let me feel like I am there, I am not an audience, I am the active participant. So he's right in that sense that only games can produce that.
If he wants to make a game that feels like I am the director? Then he needs to make a game that marries gameplay and story in seemless fashion. A game that changes based on my actions and has consequence. Miyamoto will never make this game, because it's too much work.
>>339544756
>I mean I could go on but..
Go on...
>>339544923
Story is only one aspect of U4, and the fact that it dose it well is not a reason to hate it, ND are skilled at developing characters that feel real and evoke emotion in the player, its just one aspect of immersion and only one part of the game, it isn't just cutscene after cutscene as people would have you believe, the world is so detailed and pretty and the level design is so well crafted you are immersed in the character and in the gameplay directly, its an experience you just don't get from typical AAA games
>>339545245
Go on...
>>339543872
>But in reality it's just that a try hard wannabe Hollywood film posing as a video game.
This. A lot of casuals only seem to enjoy (or accept) games that poorly imitate other forms of media.
>>339544345
I found Shovel Knight to be incredibly boring. Plague Knight was actually pretty fucking fun.
I felt like the director of a shit show when I played Star Fox Zero.
>>339545628
Plague Knight is way too broken. They really should have made him take double damage or have a bigger drawback
>>339544756
>The result of him being ''100% correct'' is his current offerings to the video game industry are the most mediocre, dated, technically inferior and boring ass games he's ever created in his entire life where as Uncharted make leaps in bounds in terms of technical detail, superb character animations and voice action, graphical techniques and tools that will be used and later recycled to third party developers(watch dogs 2), and proved the importance of tight, linear well crafted level design in an era of flat open world trash. I mean I could go on but..
What about the gameplay?
>>339545875
>What about the gameplay?
>>339546098
>>339546098
Is the player controlling any of this?
>>339546098
Still not as good swinging as Bionic Commando 2009
>>339546098
Looks good, but I don't know what the fuck is going on.
>>339546154
?
>>339546281
Yes, the entire thing is player controlled.
>>339546281
Yes, all of it
>>339546154
Finally a smart game for smart gamers.
>>339536149
>What I strive for is to make the person playing the game the director.
These don't sound like words from someone who made Skyward "I predict a 100% chance that you cannot do anything without my unwanted guidance" Sword.
>>339546953
That's because he had nothing to do with that game.
>>339547124
He was a producer on it.
He also directed Ocarina of Time which had HEY LISTEN and that fucking owl constantly interrupting you.
>>339536149
Yes
Games are in part a performance by the player. A similar idea is in all art, but it's most directly applicable to video games. He's not denouncing "story" in games but rather saying that there is too much a desire to try and force the player into having "this singular great experience I see as a designer! I want them to experience this part exactly like this and it'll get THIS beautiful reaction!"
It's impossible to give this singular intended experience directly, by "telling" it to the player. Again, this is true in all art, there always needs to be given freedom of thought, imagination, and especially in games, freedom of play. I think this isn't really thought about by most people, it seems to me most people think of movie/cutscene as something that just tells them stuff, and then gameplay sections just "have them do stuff". But the story is still going on when you're playing, no matter what. In many games, like Mario, it's more akin to dance than a film. You can think of game story as an improvisational performance, where the player is half-actor, half-director. The player is given mostly-implicit prompts (obstacles and things), and they are given props/tools (mechanics). Then, if the game is well designed, the actor-director/player finds it very interesting and often fun to perform with these things.
>>339547437
>He was a producer on it.
No he wasn't
>>339546154
Dude this is actually a great idea, implemented terribly
>>339547437
>HEY LISTEN and that fucking owl constantly interrupting you
Well navi only says HEY and then she says LISTEN if you the player inputs that they want more information. She only forces the player into dialogue in the tutorial dungeon
The owl shows up 3 times, 2 times in the early game when you might be struggling for direction, and 1 of the times is to give you a lift down to lake hylia from the top of death mountain
>Why are gamers so intensely concerned, anyway, that games be defined as art? Bobby Fischer, Michael Jordan and Dick Butkus never said they thought their games were an art form. Nor did Shi Hua Chen, winner of the $500,000 World Series of Mah Jong in 2009. Why aren't gamers content to play their games and simply enjoy themselves? They have my blessing, not that they care.
>>339547619
https://youtu.be/677N8bedz8M?t=1133
>>339536149
I do agree with what he's saying but it rings rather hollow at the same time since Nintendo has been so shitty lately.
>the same miyamoto who said literally nothing when Sakamoto ruined Metroid with Other M
>says he hates games that focus too much on story
>>339536149
Absolutely. Best games combine the two, like Shadow of the Colossus. Simple stuff like "hey this story is about never letting go and the defining game play mechanic is holding on to that R1 button for your dear life".
>>339547445
Games are more like rollercoasters rather than plays.
That's why all literary and film analogies fail. Like yours.
>>339548112
General Producer is not the Producer, he had even less involvement than a Producer which is basically looking at something and saying yes or no.
Yes.
I just wish he wasn't so fixated on gimmicks.
how important is Miyamoto inside Nintendo? How much power does he have? He did create Mario, the fucking Mickey Mouse of videogames and was temporarily president before the other guy took over.
I assume he does have considerate influence.
>>339536149
THEN WHY IS HE MAKING SHITTY GAMES NOW FUCK
>>339548369
How the fuck are they more like a rollercoaster at all...?
>then proceeds to ban let's plays as not original content
Yep, it's PR shit
>>339536149
Miyamoto has made some really dumb decisions, but hes also a legend, a game genius, and highly creative.
The reason I say this, is because I know when he dies, everyone will be blowing smoke up his ass saying how his hated decisions were simply misunderstood, which they are to some degree.
He is completely right about that statement though. While there is nothing wrong with making a story driven, cinematic game, it's really all that gets released nowadays. This trend is because most people who work on games come from art schools, or game design schools where they teach them shit like that, and they really just want to leave a mark, instead of learning to be more subtle. Yes it's amazing how good some modern games graphics can be, but sometimes simplicity can be more impactful. Something like Wind Waker has stood the test of time, or even Skyward Sword. Other companies works like Okami, Journey, and Ori all have distinct, amazing looking visual styles, that don't rely on "RAW REALISTIC GRAPHICS WITH TONS OF MODERN GAME EFFECTS".
>>339548656
They aren't though, commentary over movies gets removed from Jewtube but when Nintendo wants a cut from lets play EZ money faggotry they are suddenly Satan. Remember this wasn't about LPs as a concept but about the monetization of them. Also that decision was almost certainly not his call.
>>339536149
he is right
too bad he can't follow his own advice and half life 2 has better environment storytelling than any zelda lol
When's the last time Nintendo ever made a touching experience? SMG1?
>>339548369
>The player is given mostly-implicit prompts (obstacles and things), and they are given props/tools (mechanics). Then, if the game is well designed, the actor-director/player finds it very interesting and often fun to perform with these things.
seems like a fine analogy to me. i really don't see how a rollercoaster would be closer. you get strapped in and pulled along some crazy track and can only scream? a rollercoaster is missing a lot of things you'd need to make parallels to games.
>>339549118
Not really.
>>339536149
He's absolutely right (even if this mindset doesn't come through in his works too often) and it's why games like Deus Ex are still considered all time greats even more than a decade after being released.
>>339545245
>ND are skilled at developing characters that feel real and evoke emotion in the player,
Not really. they're templates that have been done thousands of times before, I'd barely even call them characters. ND writing is the equivalent of painting by numbers and they can't even stay inside the lines.
>>339536794
Miyamoto didn't say that, but the content of the statement is 100% true.
The DKC series is mediocre and has always been mediocre. It just hid that mediocrity behind graphics.
>>339549118
>HL2
>Jumping around the room like an idiot while a scene plays out
>Uskibbale scene
Great storytelling there m8.
Zelda already during LA took Miyamotos own words and threw them out the window.
>>339549792
That has nothing to do with environmental storytelling, my guy
>>339544691
Not really. He understands games as diversions from the larger game of life. Not to mention that an actual lore would take away from the illusory light nature of the mario world.
You don't play Mario to get into a duplication of the world, which is what invariably happens when most humans try to create something out of "nothing" but that nothing is all the metaphors, hunches, and intuitions built up, but to have fun in a lighter world.
His insistence on no "lore" also helps from other people on the team from adding necessary gay autistic shit.
The people on his team need to think about mechanics and obstacles and environment, not fucking lore for the fucktarded.
Not even autistic people need "lore". The world exists!
>>339544756
Uncharted 4 is amazing graphically but that's really the only area where I can give it high praise. The gameplay is pretty shallow and not terribly memorable. The platforming is incredibly uninteresting and the shooting isn't much better.
