How come people say Super Mario 64 still holds up, yet they bash Sonic Adventure for an being outdated product of its time?
>>339501382
Because SM64 literally does hold up and SA is actually quite bad.
>>339501382
Because SA was shit when it came out therefore remains shit.
>>339501382
nintendo autism, 64 is so awful compared to crash
Because one is actually fun to play. Go back and play Sonic Adventures, only thing it has against Mario 64 is Chaos.
>>339501382
SA is not that good of a game, even when it came out.
sm64 still has the best controls of any 3d platformer while sa is at best mediocre in everything
>Why do so many people agree on something that is true?
>>339501568
>he thinks crash is better than mario, let alone sonic.
African American please.
>>339501568
2? Barely.
1? No.
Because Sonic Adventure is really fucking clunky.
>>339501568
>64 is so awful compared to crash
>Crash good
nice bait
Because SA has some features that were poor, like the animations and voice acting, as well as some gameplay glitches that usually result in Sonic running way off the rails and dying.
SM64 stayed prudent in these same regards.
>>339501382
Because they don't abuse the spindash and probably don't break the game for speedrun time. Sad, they'll never know how satisfying that actually feels since they're still half button A pressing for all their lives.
>>339501382
Nostalgiafaggots. SM64 is one of the worst 3D platformers and is outperformed by pretty much every other one.
Sonic, Banjo, Crash, Spyro, Ty, Jak, Ratchet, Tak, Croc, Conker, Galaxy and Sunshine... Pretty much all of them blew SM64 out of the water and into the stratosphere, but SM64 is a game a lot of people grew up playing and haven't played since their childhood and thus don't remember it's awful level design and slippery gameplay, or even worse, choose to ignore it.
Don't get me wrong, I'm glad SM64 paved the way for better 3D platformers, and it wasn't as bad of a transition for Mario into 3D as it could have been.
You don't spend half of Mario 64 playing as Mario's friends doing retarded shit like fishing or barebones shooting stages.
Graphically, 6th gen games aged terribly. 5th gen games aged a bit better because they were heavily stylized to take advantage of the infant 3d tech, while 6th gen games usually focused entirely on a single aspect (usually models) while everything else suffered. Nothing is quite as jarring as a relatively well modelled/detailed character against incredibly basic backgrounds with the same primitive lighting models from 6th gen. The GTA games tried to balance these out, but they look the worst. I'd say anything by Konami actually looks good today, namely SH2 and 3.
>>339503354
>Croc
The rest are your opinions but dont you fucking tell me croc is better than SM64.
>>339503905
>Graphically 6th gen games aged terribly
I dunno, Luigi's Mansion, Sunshine, and Pikmin 2 all still look pretty nice
>>339501382
Play them and see.
From a technical point of sonic adventure has very static controls it also relies on a gimmick with the Chao garden. Everything else is subjective.
Because SA fucks up as soon as you deviate off path
>>339501568
This
>>339501382
you can't exploit sonic adventure's coding to do some crazy shit involving parallel universes
>>339501448
Not true at all, 64 has the worst controls
>>339501568
PS1babby leave
>>339501382
Because 64 didn't have cutscenes and storytelling that aged poorly.
People just like to laugh at how shitty the Adventure cutscenes are and ignore the fun gameplay.
Meanwhile 64's gameplay requires you to get perfect timing whenever you want to do a basic jump move.
>>339504650
You're gonna get memed on with HURR GIT GUDDD XD but you are 100% correct
Also I love SA2's retarded campy story
>>339504580
The controls are fine, it's the camera that's a bitch.
>>339501382
In one game you play as the main character of the series for the entire game, the other you play as the main character and his shitty friends with their retarded gimmick gameplay in order to play Super Sonic who you can only play in the final story.
>>339504650
Sonic's stages are fun. Everything else from the other characters, to the boss fights (Chaos 4 lol), to the hubs are complete shit.
>>339504838
This. And the camera is only bad in close quarters.
You have to keep in mind, a lot of people who have played Mario 64 now have only played it on shitty emulators with third-party controllers.
>>339504650
>Meanwhile 64's gameplay requires you to get perfect timing whenever you want to do a basic jump move.
What the hell are you talking about? One of the biggest complaints people have about 64 these days is that the levels are too easy and never require you to be anywhere near as proficient or precise with the controls as the game allows you to get.
>>339504650
>>People just like to laugh at how shitty the Adventure cutscenes are and ignore the fun gameplay.
This.
>>339503354
>Tak and the Power of JEWJEW
Get the fuck out of here.
Sonic Adventure had a cracking soundtrack, interesting level design mostly based around constructs rather than simply having lots of generic/floating platforms/roads, Chao gardens and adventure fields.
Also, it let us play as other characters, for fuck's sake
But the dialogue is terrible (except for Robotnik), the cutscenes are awful, there aren't enough bosses and the camera's a little dodgy.
Mario had some great level design, a fun and expansive-feeling hubworld (HUBWORLDS FULL OF STUFF ARE GREAT, BRING THEM BACK), pretty tight controls and some iconic moments.
>>339501382
Why do you think these things are connected? They are two different games, so people will say different things about them. That might even mean that one is an overall well designed game, but the other isn't.
This being said, I recently replayed Mario 64 with sequence breaking (rabbit glitch / BLJ stair glitch), and I just got all the stars I wanted; the stars I felt were the most fun to get. I ended up completing the game with 31 stars. Mario 64 has some redeeming factors, and its high points are very solid. Sonic Adventure on the other hand, is not, and was never good. In fact, Mario games have always been better than Sonic games.
>>339505330
I playedthe DS version
Sonic Adventure
>Multiple characters
>Actions stages
>Racing stages
>Treasure hunting
>Running from big foreheaded robot guy
>Fishing
>Run'n'Gun
>Cutscenes with ok voice acting
>C H A O G A R D E N
>Tornado chases
>Lots of bosses
>Replayability
>Kart racing in space
>Pinball
>Snow/sandboarding
>You can still fuck with the game for speedrun times without it crashing
>Crush 40 don't even fucking try to compete with Sonic music
SM64
>Admittedly nice sized maps
>Only get stars
>Swim
>Like 2 fucking cutscenes
>Less than a paragraph worth of voice acting
>Controls are god damn awful
>Decent boss variety
>Replayability
>Music is good
>Ugly as fuck 3D Yoshi model
>>339501382
Because 64 is a much better game. I love Sonic Adventure and don't have an issue with it not holding up anymore or any shit like that but 64 is absolutely perfect.
I dunno. 64 has better movement mechanics in general but the only bad part of SA is Big's section. Still a perfectly decent game.
Using autism glitches to praise a game is absolutely retarded because they were never intended to work in the first place.
>>339503354
Worst bait I've seen in a while.
>>339506021
I bet you think OoT is the best zelda game too you fucking neogaffer
>>339506220
No, MM is. OoT is good, but overrated.
>>339505813
SA
>shit controls
M64
>The prime example on how to make 3D platformer controls
>>339504580
>he thinks sonic adventure controls are functional
I too love losing control of my camera for no reason whatsoever.
>>339501382
Mario 64 was designed perfectly, fine-tuning Mario's movement to work in 3D before adding gimmicks and designing the levels with a lot of 3D movement. Not everything was great and the single-stick controller holds it back compared to what we're used to 20 years later, but it's still fun to play.
Adventure was not designed anywhere nearly as well. They were more interested in the tone and adding characters and gimmicks instead of getting Sonic's core gameplay down perfectly like Nintendo did with Mario. This is an issue that has persisted ever since and is a huge reason why 3D Sonic games still aren't really all that good. The level design didn't really do much with 3D space and put the player on linear corridors. It was fun enough at the time when you were young and stupid and didn't know any better, but it's a pile of hot garbage today.
t. Sonicfag
>>339501382
I'm a Sonic autist at heart but the difference between the two is simple
>Sonic Adventure was released two years later (and thus, should have been WAY more stable, engine/camera/collisions wise)
>Sonic Adventure has ten fun Sonic speed levels, five fun Tails race levels, and then a whole bunch of hit-and-miss inconsistent playstyles from everybody else
>Big The Cat
>The tacky cutscenes
That's... pretty much it. Conceptually, the Sonic & Tails gameplay of Adventure was solid. Hell, Knuckles had solid controls and moveset too, although he got stuck with treasure hunting bullshit. If Sonic Adventure wasn't glitchy as fuck, had better (or no) voice acting, and every character fast A-to-B levels instead of what they actually got, it'd be praised as an 8/10, a true 3D platformer to be proud of.
Oh, and also they keep rereleasing it and yet SOMEHOW it actually gains glitches with each rerelease instead of losing them. I don't know how that's happening but it's absurd, and it's blurring peoples memory of the original even more than necessary
>>339504580
Learn to half-A-press, noob.
>>339501382
>Sonic Adventure for an being outdated product of its time
This doesn't just describe SA.
It describes the entire Sonic intellectual property as a whole.
>>339505669
>He never played The Great Juju Challenge
Best 6th gen multiplat
>>339506469
>SM64 has good contols
O I am laffin
That whole shitty game controls like one big ice level.
>>339503354
>Croc
>better then 64
I loved it but come the fuck on
SA was good at release time, now it is decent.
64 was amazing back then, and it's a well crafted old game now.
>>339507247
>Cros better than 64
Kids say the darnedest things
>>339507141
Stop playing it on a keyboard then.
you guys are starting to take the contrarian thing too far
>>339507503
But pkeks told me KB+M is supposed to be the superior control method.
>>339504650
the cutscenes suck because they were originally in japanese and the english audio was spliced to fit when their mouths are moving, the CG cutscenes on the other hand are really good in that game for the time when they were released
>>339501382
They both aged the same, /v/ just has nintendo autism. They didn't have more than one system, filthy peasants.
>>339501568
>Poochie the fucking Dog
Could have said some actual good platformer on the PS1, like Jumping Flash, not that Poochie shit.
Poochie is more similar to Hugo than to any other 3D platformer. It's a hallway simulatoer where you have to occasionally jump, no momentum involved.
>>339507503
Try again, I play with a controller.
Mario 64's controls with all the grace of a drunk driver
>>339506890
Man, have you even played Sonic Adventure is the past decade? A lot of the sonic levels are pretty bad.
>Emerald Coast
Decent level. Ironically more glitches than any in the game though
>Windy Valley
Decent, but really shoves the autorun segments down your throat
>Casinopolis
PINBALL
>Ice cap
I really boring, slow paced section where you climb up an area then the snowboard minigame where it's impossible to die.
>Twinkle Park
Decent level, but not before a painful kart segment
>Speed Highway
Genuinely fucking awesome level. The only one in the game, honestly.
>Red Mountain
Decent level.
>Sky Deck
Fucking terrible level full of terrible gimmicks like shooting the rockets at turrets, wind, scaling ledges, gravity changes
>Lost world
2nd best level in the game imo.
>Final Egg
Mediocre level full of boring platforming where you wait for floating surfaces to get close enough to each other.
Then you have tails levels, that merely chop up a small portion of these levels into even smaller segments.
>>339505813
Sonic Adventure
>Piled on gimmicks to try and compensate for subpar controls and drought of Sonic levels.
Super Mario 64
>Good controls, and lots of levels, made replayable by its openness and interconnection.
>>339501568
Pretty much this.
Crash is the only platformer series I can return to and always still have fun because of its tight controls and fantastic linear level design.
Open world platformers were a meme back then and are never a good idea.
>>339507895
>Man, have you even played Sonic Adventure is the past decade?
Yeah, I'm a Sonic autist, I literally started a new save game on it last week. Different people have different opinions, I think the Sonic stages are fun as fuck
Is this bizarro world? 3D Sonic has always felt like clunky lazy unpolished shit. Mario 64 is one of the finest platformers ever made, there is yet to be another one where the character feels so responsive to the controls (momentum, etc).
You can play a Mario 64 level as well or as poorly as you want, there are shortcuts everywhere if you're skilled enough.
>>339501382
Go back and play the first level of each and I think you'll find your answer.
>>339507865
Perhaps it is the player who has the grace of a drunk driver.
>>339508076
>Is this bizarro world?
No, /v/ has just gone full contrarian. In the last three or so Sonic threads I've been in, people have been dicking on the 2D classicfags (despite Sonic's run from 1991-1994 being the only years of stability he's ever had) while simultaneously defending the alleged good aspects of Sonic 2006. It's beyond retarded, I don't get it either
>>339505813
>>339504436
pretty much this. awful hitboxes and collision detection. i sure do love clipping through the floor and dying repeatedly.
>>339501568
Crash is literally a poorman's mario, fuck off sonyger.
>>339504650
>6 year old children nation wide played this game to completion
What's your point? That sonic is inherently better because it set out to do things it didn't succeed in doing?
>>339501382
Because it's cool to hate on Sega
>>339508076
> What is Rayman 2.
Seriously, Nintendrones needs to off themselves with this shit. SA1 aged like milk, but SM64 is just "basic" as a Mario game. Yes, it handled itself safe to make the jump to 3D, but being safe doesn't make it perfect. No one says SMB1 is the best 2D Mario game anymore with SMB3/World/W2 existing, so how is Nintenfags this nostalgic over this game that doesn't even push as much as the 2D games before it?
At least Sonic always pushed. That's the one thing that blue fucker got over Mario. At least nowadays.
>>339501382
Because Super Mario 64 does hold up stupid.
The only problem with Mario 64 is the camera and that's only for a handful of levels.
The only good thing about Sonic Adventure 1 is the Sonic stages and the chao garden
>>339507895
I'd say that the problem they had was not enough development time and rushing the game to meet the Dreamcast launch. SA2 had even less dev time than SA1. Sonic 06 is by far the worst though
Thankfully we haven't had a Sonic game in 3 years so hopefully the new game won't be rushed out of the door
>>339501382
Even though the majority of Sonic Adventure ranges from enjoyable to 10/10 material, it's way too fucking unpolished to even have fun with at certain points, as in:
>there's a lot of glitchy or weirdly-coded spots in a lot of levels that beginners need to force themselves to avoid, which is complete horseshit
>the way Sonic and company react to various things, like switches, or certain types of terrain, can have a choppy, unfinished feeling that feels terrible when it happens
>the camera is fucking atrocious, and easily the worst thing about the game
>besides the lack of polish, there's also stupid shit like Big the Cat that you have to deal with
And this is just the Dreamcast version I'm talking about. The DX version is complete shit. They butchered the controls, gimped the physics, added in even more glitch shit like that Emerald Coast loop thing, and made the graphics look like ass. All subsequent releases of the game somehow manage to get progressively worse, to the point where the XBLA/PSN/Steam release is nearly unplayable. If you've only played a non-Dreamcast version of SA1, you have no right to talk about the game.
>>339508457
good, but it's missing something
>>339508892
Because whether or not a sequel is better has nothing to do with how good the game is. I wouldn't call Mario 64 the best Mario game or even the best 3D Mario game but that doesn't mean it doesn't hold up and is still fun. Meanwhile you could make a legitimate case for Adventure being the best pre-boost 3D game, but that doesn't mean it's amazing and holds up well.
>>339508407
>>339508076
It's the younger generation coming up, and voicing their retarded opinions. Sonic Adventure is a 17 year old game.
I gave up on /v/ when Nintendo announce Duck Hunt for Smash, and half of the board was like.
>HUH? WHO? WHAT IS THAT?! A DOG?!?! WASTED SLOT! ENOUGH OBSCURE RETRO PICKS.
And then someone mentioned that they resembled Banjo Kazooie, and immediately opinions changed.
>LMAO, THEY'RE JUST LIKE BANJO KAZOOIE! BANJO KAZOOIE IN SMASH LEL!
Just wait until the 2007 generation starts posting here.
>>339509285
didn't know that. i remember loving it on the dreamcast way back when, and considering it a piece of shit once i tried it on PC. time to give emulation a shot, i guess.
>>339507721
>LE POOCHIE MEME XD
Not even the show itself agrees with you, kill yourself
>>339505757
Then you haven't played Mario 64.
>>339509647
You need to play with an actual controller. An emulator won't cut it. Anyway, the Dreamcast version will take some amount of getting used to, but once you have it down, you'll cringe when you play the DX version again.
>>339501382
If you actually look at both games, Sonic Adventure has indeed done some good things(Knuckles and Sonic stages still hold up despite some glitches), but Sonic Adventure had too many things in it that made it a mess as a whole. Not to mention how awful the animation is for the cutscenes. It's pretty bad. It tried too hard to be a Sonic game with a ton of excess gameplay for the sake of variety and not for the sake of flowing with the mechanics of an actual Sonic game.
64 has some issues with it as well, don't get me wrong; but it's not as much of a detriment to the game as a whole as are the issues with Sonic Adventure. 64 incorporated a lot of things to keep a player invested while Sonic Adventure incorporated too many things to try to hook everyone and it didn't really work. 64 is just a platformer with collectables to advance and that's what people want in a Mario game. They don't want what SA1 did with all of these gameplay options that somewhat hide what people want which is to play as Sonic in a Sonic game(and Knuckles).
If we're talking about soundtracks, I'd personally say that SA1 blows 64's OST out of the water and it's not even close.
tl;dr - It's because SA1 honestly doesn't hold up well. 64 has its issues, but it can be ignored for the sake of it fulfilling the goal of being a Mario game while SA1 tried to accomplish too much and didn't really work. SA1 has a better soundtrack imo.
>>339508892
>No one says SMB1 is the best 2D Mario game anymore with SMB3/World/W2 existing, so how is Nintenfags this nostalgic over this game
There is yet to be a proper game that's a straight improvement. Sunshine followed the same platforming controls but had a lot of flaws. Galaxy, while being a really good, went through a different direction. They went for simpler controls but a shit load of visuals, gimmicks (for lack of a better word), etc. 3D World is also good but, again, it's not a logical follow up to 64. Both SMB3 and World are basically SMB but better.
>>339509540
I was hoping for DH in some form, and was so happy when he was announced
Isn't he iconic? Is it just my nostalgia? I don't know, maybe I'm just getting old
>>339509474
Then that's just tastes overall, but to say one is superior over the other with no real defense when both compared to many games before and after them have done better, makes this argument bullshit. I think Sonic Adventure 2 is better than 1, and Galaxy shits on SM64, but even though 64 was fine and stays fine, so is SMB1, but it's still barebones and bland because of its simplicity. And since 64 is really Mario's 5th mainline game, it's not going to get a bigger "it's its first time" card when it doesn't do much different from it's first game in the series, compared to Sonic 1 to Sonic Adventure 1.
>>339509540
>It's the younger generation coming up, and voicing their retarded opinions
To an extent I could understand that, maybe. Like, I get that some kiddlywinks will come in to Sonic threads and say they like the Advance trilogy as kids, or Sonic Adventure 2 Battle, or even Heroes and Unleashed (although I personally think Heroes is way worse than it gets credit for), but then I see people saying the Genesis games completely suck and Sonic is more suited to 3D. I see people UNIRONICALLY defending parts of Sonic 06 that they liked, saying things like "if it only got X more months of dev time and they cut this and that, it could have been good" even though it was clearly objectively cancer from the ground up.
That's not the younger generation coming up, that's the older generation fishing for (You)'s. I refuse to believe otherwise
>>339508407
Classic sonic IS pretty mediocre, though, S3&K and CD are the only classic games that are actually good.
>>339510448
I'm not sure what's so difficult to understand for you. Mario 64 was a good game. Sonic Adventure was not. It's as simple as that. What they did compared to other games is irrelevant.
>All these people calling Mario 64 a terrible game
It certainly isn't my favorite game of all-time, but is everyone here being serious? I feel like I'm getting memed on here.
How come no one talks about Vexx is just super mario 64 but better
>>339510801
Because Vexx was too edgy for my tastes.
>>339501382
Mario 64 is good game. Sonic Adventure is bad game
Good game is good. Bad game is bad.
>>339510464
I mean, probability would dictate that there are a few older guys being contrary. But I think that opinion is spearheaded by the younger generation. Everyone tries to diminish what came before them, so they can elevate what is relevant to themselves.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LV0wTtiJygY
>>339501382
The only good the thing that came out of sonic adventure was the chao garden
SA didn't even hold up the day it released
>>339511132
The opposite of this is closer to the truth than this post is.
tl;dr nice bait fag
>>339501382
Sonic Adventure was never good. The only decent thing it created was e102 Gamma
>>339503354
>Sunshine
I almost thought you were rusing but sadly you're just retarded.
Sunshine is perhaps the wort 3D Mario, with a camera so bad it makes Sonic Adventures camera look good.
>>339512654
>Sunshine
>Bad camera
Also, being the worst 3d mario game doesn't make it a bad game
>>339503354
>Complains about slippery controls in Mario 64
>Cites Sunshine and Crash as better than Mario 64
>Complains about bad level design
>Cites Sunshine as better than 64
Sonic Adventure is buggy, falling out of the world is not unheard of, collision on interactable parts of the levels is inconsistent, the camera is far worse than in Super Mario 64, the game needs scripted sequences to convey all of the impressive parts of the game that you remember most clearly, and the level design itself was just nothing special. On top of this, Sonic Team had so little confidence in their ability to create a platformer in 3D space that they needed to give Sonic the ability to lock-on to and home-in on enemies because there is no way the player will be able to consistently attack them properly without the game automating it. The adventure fields are much worse than Peach's castle, they don't accomplish the same goal of giving you a really enjoyable sandbox to use your abilities in, they just serve as fluff between levels.
Speaking of which, Sonic's abilities just aren't up to par with Mario's in these games. For Mario 64, they fleshed out Mario's moveset immensely. He could do more than he ever could. All Sonic gets at a basic level is the homing attack, which was a band-aid solution to the game's clunky controls. Sonic and other characters get upgrades, but they don't fulfill the same purpose. All Sonic gets is the light speed dash, a better version of the light speed dash, and the light speed attack. The dash functionally serves two purposes: work as a simple key to get to places you couldn't before, or allow you to run in a straight line, something you'd have trouble with otherwise. The light speed attack is just a way to attack several enemies.
Sonic Adventure is padded out with several types of gameplay that were never fully realized, and are even more unwieldy than Sonic's platforming gameplay. I guess it's hard to argue that Sonic Adventure is "padded out", considering stars in Mario 64 require revisiting levels quite a bit as well, but at least you're always playing those levels as Mario, and SM64 genuinely does have more stages.
>>339501382
Mario 64 had an equilibrium of good stages, good music, and good gameplay that holds up over time, but Sonic Adventure hit both ends of the spectrum instead of maintaining equilibrium: SA had absolutely great music and some awesome stages, but gameplay was super wonky to make up for all it outshone Mario 64 in.
They're both great games though that hold up to this very day, and should be regarded as two of the best leaps into 3D for vidya. Sonic Adventure even has the distinction of being one of the first games to introduce DLC, free DLC even, which was kinda neato looking back on it.
>>339505558
The gameplay sucked. It still fucking sucked in the Directors cut. Jesus, Sonic autists are the worst. Even Sonic 3D Blast handled better
>>339513984
>Even Sonic 3D Blast handled better
You say "Even Sonic 3D Blast handled better" as if it's notorious for bad handling. That game actually had some pretty slick controls and handling/physics (as best as an isometric platformer can get, anyway), it was shit for other reasons entirely
>>339501568
Nigger Dog autism, Crash is so awful compared to Spyro
>>339508892
No one thinks 64 is the best Mario 3D platformer though, nearly everyone agrees it's Galaxy/2 with a few gamecube kids saying Sunshine.
>>339501617
>the best controls of any 3d platformer
Banjo series improved on the controls and physics in every way. It's only downside was its worlds being less-challenging.
Gex was pretty decent with improvements as well.
>>339514604
Wrong. I think 64 is the best 3D Mario platformer.
>>339512827
The ghost hotel and the underground city say hi. The hubworld Yoshi mission and all the other other indoor levels are also here to see you.
>>339514734
Well you would be wrong but at least I stand corrected.
Why Sonic Adventure, a shit game, when you can play SA2, a slightly less shit game?
>>339501568
You could've at LEAAT said something like Spyro the Dragon or Ape Escape bro...
>>339514993
Nigger if you have problem with the camera in those places you just need to learn how to control it.
>>339504650
>Meanwhile 64's gameplay requires you to get perfect timing whenever you want to do a basic jump move.
Nigger I got 120 stars when I was 7 years old. It is not a hard game.
Even today, you'd have to be a full on fucking retard with bloated hamhands to not be able to play Super Mario 64 properly.
It still handles fucking great.
>SM64
>bad controls
No, you're just shit at video games.
Sonic games > Mario games
>>339501382
SA released after 64. I haven't played SA in a long time. I have played 64 again last year. 64 definitely has aged a bit but I still liked it overall. As a kid I always liked SM64 more than OOT. I feel it's too easy to fall off the stages in SM64 because the platforming mechanics are so tight yet the camera can be less than optimal at times.
SA was cool with the many characters you can use, the music, and some levels. I remember the first level and that sky level (forget the names) were pretty fun to play. SA 1 and 2 were good. So I don't know why people shit on them. Maybe not as good as genesis sonic but they were still good.
>>339515458
Nigger;
1: That's not a valid argument anymore then 'git gud lmao' is.
2: you can't control the camera in those areas. In fact you can't control it in a lot more areas. The camera auto corrects itself into the worst possible position multiple times.
3: Sunshine is worse than 64 for far more than the camera.
![36950-Gex_-_Enter_the_Gecko_[NTSC-U]-1.jpg](https://i.imgur.com/9rbUJdI.jpg "36950-Gex_-_Enter_the_Gecko_[NTSC-U]-1.jpg")
>>339501568
>Crash
>Not the GOTY 1995
>people unironically saying BK had better controls and movent than Mario 64
My fucking sides. Nostalgia goggle pressed on tight
My question is why people think 64 is better than Galaxy 2. Back when Galaxy 2 first came out everyone was saying it was the pinnacle of Mario games. What made people change their minds.
>>339516506
Sunshine is worse than 64 in a shitton of aspect, no one is discussing that but the camera is fine in both games even. In sunshine, it just happens to be way better>>339516506
>you can't control the camera in those areas. In fact you can't control it in a lot more areas. The camera auto corrects itself into the worst possible position multiple times.
Bullshit,you just seriously need to learn how to go around with it.
>>339516630
No waggling to spin, 300% less linear, no godawful comet stars to collect 100 purple coins, and doesn't railroad you into boring 2d segments. Plus Yoshi controlled like hot garbage
>>339501382
both are aged in the same way.
>>339507721
>Jumping Trash
>good
Love this meme.
>>339516748
Everytime you move the camera, it moves by itself once you move. I played through fucking Sunshine twice you cunt, the camera is as bad as 64s which is worse because it's a whole console generation ahead of it.
>>339517731
>played it only twice
Well that explains.
>64's camera
>bad
So you are one of those people
>>339516998
>I actually played this game and disliked it and am totally not being contrary for the sake of being contrary
proofs?
>>339501568
Crash is quite good, but never to the level of SM64.
SM64 got everything right when it comes to what a 3d platformer should be. Crash and even Sonic kept their gameplay 2 dimensional in a three dimensional environment.
>>339501382
Because it fucking doesn't you faggot. Mario 64 is a platform masterpiece that I can literally play all day. If you'd have watched the SA1 Game Grumps episode for even 20 minutes you would have realized 3d sonic, not just 2d Sonic, have never been good
>>339516998
Acquire some taste you fucking faggot
>>339514723
banjo sucks. nobody who wasn't a kid when those games came out has any reverence for them.
>>339513891
>and should be regarded as two of the best leaps into 3D for vidya
lol
Sonic Adventure has had absolutely zero influence on 3D video games outside of other Sonic games.
Mario 64 basically invented the fundamentals of how modern 3D games control.
>>339513891
Sonic Adventure should only be regarded as a cautionary tale of what not to do.
>>339518746
Wouldn't that be considered a better 2D-3D transition, though? If it wasn't for Mario being the main character, anyone would've called SM64 a completely unrelated game. SA's focus on speedrunning level design meant someone describing it to another person could say "It's like Sonic but in 3D."
>>339519034
>If you'd have watched the SA1 Game Grumps
> Confirmed to not have your own opinion.
Fucking kek. It's one thing to be bias of SM64, fine enough, but get your own opinion mongoloid.
>>339519034
>Game Grumps
your opinion is shit
>>339501568
How to tell how old an autistic Sonypony is
They either grew up with Crash / Spyro or Jak / Ratchet. No matter what they will think they are the greatest game series ever made and will get extremely buttmad if someone talks shit about them.
64 might be more mechanically secure/advanced but as a whole, I always enjoyed Sonic way more, including adventure. Theres more to Sonic games that keeps me going back than mario games.
>>339517883
Was Sunshine the only game you had? Why anyone would want to play it more than once is beyond me. I only played it twice to see if it was as bad as I remembered it as a teenager. It was.
64s camera was also easily the worst part of the games design.
>>339501568
I feel really bad for Playstation kids, playing knock off trash.
>>339514993
> underground city
What?
>>339501382
Because it's the truth.
>SA aged
No it didn't
the game was always steaming shit
>this thread
![sa1z9[1].gif](https://i.imgur.com/fXTNPPp.gif "sa1z9[1].gif")
>>339520064
If you're going to make 2D gameplay then just make a 2D game. 2D environments and gameplay mechanics just limit what you can do in a 3D environment and make the game worse. One of the great things about classic Sonic games was all the branching paths that kept a game fresh as you replayed it. This is part of why stages like Marble Zone or Sandopolis Act 2 are disliked, because they're very linear. 3D should take the branching paths to the extreme by giving the player a ton of areas to explore, but instead they cut that all away and gave Sonic a bunch of mostly linear levels because Naka and Iizuka thought Sonic should be all about nothing but speed and Yasuhara wasn't around to correct them.
>>339521429
How fucking delusional can you be
>Sonic was good guys! I swear!
>proceeds to have a decade of shit games with a grand total of 2 actually being good
>y-your just a sheep!
>>339501568
How come every time someone is talking about vidya excluding Sony, you have to bring Sony up? I don't get it.
>>339521630
>Le sonic was never good meme
I'm starting to think most people who shit on Sonic admit they suck at it but give stuff from From Software and Bethesda which are more broken and faulty a pass.
>>339514723
Mario has a lot more movement options than Banjo does.
Dont get me wrong I love both games but you have way more control over mario than you do with banjo
>>339521113
The place with the mushrooms and the fire chain chomp.
>>339522168
What about the people who grew up with and enjoyed Sonic but are capable of pointing out the series' flaws, of which Adventure is included?
>>339522168
>Sonic is criticized
>YEAH WELL I BET YOU LIKE UNRELATED THING THAT'S ALSO BROKEN
Don't be a fucking moron.
Honestly there are plenty of good-decent Sonic games
The genesis ones are the best, the adventure ones are fun but with their faults, colors and generations are great, the rush series is good, the advance series is good, unleashed is decent, sonic 4 episode 1 and 2 were well-received as well.
Most of the actually bad games are spin-offs such as Shadow, Sonic R, Labyrinth, Chronicles, Blast, etc
If Sonic Boom and 06 never came out we would not have nearly as many people come here saying Sonic was never good
>>339516748
I've played through Sunshine countless times and I've only had a problem with the camera in two parts:
The level in Pinna Park where you have to climb up the backside of the Ferris Wheel and The Hotel episode where you have to spray the boos.
I never had a problem with it in at any other time and don't say nostalgia because I literally 100%ed it last week.
>>339501382
SM64 was a truly innovative game which to this day it's hard to live up to, SA was a pathetic attempt at a 3D Sonic with terrible fucking level design
>>339522168
Nigger, I suck at Sonic, but I still love 2, 3, Rush and the Advance trilogy. The 3D ones and even the first have issues that make it less enjoyable than it should have been.
>>339516903
Basically this. I loved the fuck out Galaxy 1 but never finished two
The 2D segments are terrible
>>339522725
Never understood the hype for sonic 2
I thought it was much more mediocre than sonic 1
>>339501382
SA is extrememly glitchy which makes it hard to over look but at the time it was incredibly ambitious.
Mario 64 holds up pretty well, but some parts do feel like test levels to get use to 3d
>>339520869
>64s camera was also easily the worst part of the games design.
Wrong. The worst part of its design was the wide, open and empty levels that featured almost no platforming. Shit like Snowman's Land, Bob-omb battlefield and Dry Dry Desert were god awful because of it. The camera worked pretty well when you had it set to focus on Mario, though it did have flaws, but you could get used to those and still play and enjoy the game. The garbage level design gets worse the more you play.
>>339522913
I guess it's just because of the improvements from the first game. Some good level streamlining and better movement.
>>339507895
>>339509276
>Sonic Adventure 1 and 2 will never get hacks/remakes that fix the controls, physics, and camera problems.
>>339523274
>tfw SA1 saturn version never
I miss 90s style Sega. That was the most fun for it when it was in the cheesy 3d low poly era.
>>339523274
>grew up on the GameCube ports of SA 1 and 2
How lucky am I, right?
>tfw haven't had half of the glitches people are talking about in this thread
>>339519034
>If you'd have watched the SA1 Game Grumps episode
oh sweet mercy you're going to be reeling in an awful lot of (You)'s. Here's one from me, on the house. You earned it
>>339523582
Damn, sucks to be you lad. Could be worse, it could've been the PC releases, those are the true cancers beyond even the GC ports
>Half A presses
>>339501382
SM64 holds up because it had so many novel ideas at its time that few if any games have since fully realized a good number of them.
People trash SA because there's like 10% of an average game in there buried under pure garbage. People only pardoned it back then because 3D Sonic was a new and exciting concept, and that much of it didn't turn out COMPLETELY fucked. But you have to be a nostalgiafag to think it's any good nowadays.
>>339524089
Meme police. Gonna need to see your meme license and registration.
>>339501382
Cuz Mario 64 to this day we're finding new shit like Scuttlebug raising and QPUs.
Sonic Adventure was dead on arrival and not relevant unlike Mario 64
>>339501382
64 has a way of level design that i don't think was ever really done again, 3d platformers are an already anorexically slim market anyway, so 64 still has some novelty, Sonic adventure on the other hand just plays like a worse version of 06
>>339524248
>Sonic adventure on the other hand just plays like a worse version of 06
Why would somebody go on to the internet and knowingly lie like this?
Because Super Mario 64 still holds up, and Sonic Adventure is an outdated product of its time.
It's even more pathetic on Sega's part, because 64 came out 2 fucking years afterwards, and they still made such a subpar product. There were even other games in between both games release dates that managed to come close, if not meet or exceed 64's quality.
>>339507624
>game was literally designed to be played on it's controller
>TYME 4 SHITPoST B^)
fuck you
>>339519281
Hence my point about Mario's straight-platforming (and ongoing history) being a plus. Otherwise you could say the same about most specific eras of childish platformers.
>>339522349
Eh, the directional-changing jumping sure, otherwise I don't recall what more he had against Banjo's array of unique moves. The physics don't feel like ice either.
Can anyone recomend me any good Mario 64 mods? Beat Star Road and playing through Mario's Nightmare
>>339503354
>ractchet
>good platforming
I love rnc but you're a fucking liar, and lying is a sin you pig fuck
>>339514723
Banjo has no fucking momentum at all
>>339524207
CHEESE IT
>>339524829
More like just a slower instant run speed
>>339523365
I love those Saturn era models so much.
>>339501568
Crash is logically what a 3D Mario should've been, but Nintendo took it one step further.
>>339501568
I think Crash is bland with its linear levels and has the typical cliche video game pickups. He was basically just almost every other video that tried to out do Sonic and Mario back in 90s.
>>339508071
This! That is why I like Galaxy 1+2 and 3D World more.3D World is my favorite Mario game
>>339522913
>Sonic 1 is mediocre
Stop.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8UWYHg9vWgw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AnJJQ7c7kTQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C8qHEfJMkSw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xo7UqPikpJo
>>339501617
SA1's controls are fucking god-tier on the DC. You just played the shitty DX version.
>>339501382
>People say SA1 is buggy compared to SM64
>SM64 objectively has more bugs, more higher class bugs, in smaller stages all around.
I attribute it to the fact that for the past 12 years, people considered nintendo to have "won" the console war. So every half-in-the-bag fag either jumped ship if they were a SEGAfag or claimed they always were nintedo fags. Why do you think every SJW claims they're nintendo fans? It leads to a bunch of people praising a game they barely spent 10 minutes with.
The real OG Nintendofags are just too happy to finally have been "undisputed" for a while to have noticed. Their autism over being the best, especially with Sony edging them out and putting preassure from a different front, cause them to overcompensate.
In general, it's nintendo autism mixed with revisionist history.
It's led to a lot of bitter emotions from segafags like me. People like to attribute that to the console war, but I'm bitter at the way Nintendo treated Sega and a whole bunch of other third parties more recently than anything, and how their fans act towards everyone else, saying how Nintendo doesn't need third parties, and they don't need to change the way they treat third parties.
>>339520869
You also happen to have shit taste then, sunshine has problems, but it is still a pretty fun game and I pop that fucker any day I wish.
People are less critical of Mario in general.
Both aged alright though.
>>339501568
>Those salty replies
>All this ninty butthurt
>MFW
>>339529313
Also, every bigname nintendofag youtuber spending time on their channel shitting on SEGA 13 years after they bowed out of the console race hasn't put a good face on Nintendofags online at all. Love them or hate them, they're a voice, and their fans are vociferous, and it's fucking annoying whenever a video goes up and a place gets flooded with faggots. Nintendofags need to own up to this. It might not be you personally doing it, but they wouldn't be big name youtubers if they're not giving their fans what they wanted. Enabling that shit because you want an easier target in your hugbox isn't helping. Capcomfags are getting a bit fed up too, I've noticed.
>>339529313
Please make a complete list of bugs that you have a very high chance of running into during normal gameplay in SM64.
>>339529792
Misaligning your QPUs
>>339529792
http://www.mariowiki.com/List_of_Super_Mario_64_glitches
I ain't spoonfeeding and doing that shit. Here's a list.
Do the same for the good version of Sonic Adventure.
>>339529751
Based Crash keeping my seat warm before Sonic Adventure
>>339522630
I agree with the Pinna Park shine, what the fuck were they thinking. I find the Hotel doable though.
Saying that all the camera is shit for that location is just reaching, but the other anon has proved to not be able to control the camera in both games so he is irrelevant
>>339529313
SA1 has more bugs that you'll run into in an average casual playthrough unless you know to avoid them. Mario 64 has been picked apart so thoroughly by speedrunners that of course it's going to have more bugs documented, but you're not going to run into nearly as many in an average casual playthrough.
>>339530458
Actually, that's untrue. On an average playthrough, you'll run into more bugs with SM64 than Sonic, simply because a lot of the bugs in SM64 that you run into often are low class.
You can very easily play through Sonic Adventure without experiencing a single bug.
It's really obvious when this is your argument that you've never played much of either. Or at the very best, you've played emulations of both.
>>339529975
I'm not sure if even half of these should be considered glitches.
>>339501382
Because Mario 64 only has you playing as mario and not doing mundane bullshit like fucking fishing for a damn frog as Bowser to be able to complete the game.
>>339501382
The soundtrack on Mario doesn't even compare, let alone the general multicolored crayola shitfest of a game it is.
Are there people who think 64 holds up graphically? I have trouble believing the developers had even seen a fucking polygon before. It's so fucking nasty.
>>339529975
>the good version of Sonic Adventure
So, none of them?
>>339531014
Every one of those are glitches. And there's a few more exploits that aren't included in that, but they're just benefits. Those are all either neutral or negatives.
A lot of them are just very low class.
Meanwhile, here's the general glitch list for Sonic Adventure
http://sonic.wikia.com/wiki/Glitches#Sonic_Adventure
>>339531268
Haha upvoted
![[HorribleSubs] Fushigi na Somera-chan - 02 [720p].mkv_snapshot_02.41_[2015.11.18_00.52.05].png](https://i.imgur.com/v9PJhLx.jpg "[HorribleSubs] Fushigi na Somera-chan - 02 [720p].mkv_snapshot_02.41_[2015.11.18_00.52.05].png")
>>339531415
>>339530789
>>339531357
Again, there's a huge difference between "list of glitches" and "list of docuemented glitches." A large portion of the Mario 64 list are very minor nitpicks and SA1 could be picked apart the same way if speedrunners and modders cared about it the same as Mario 64.
>>339501568
I think Crash 2 and 3 still hold up remarkably well.
Way better than either SA or SMB64
>>339529313
Sonic fans have such a weird persecution complex. Maybe SA1 is kind of a shitty game that suffered from its troubled development and the incompetence of this chucklefuck
![[BakedFish] Uchuu Patrol Luluco - 07 [720p][AAC].mp4_snapshot_04.48_[2016.05.18_16.44.18].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/HDPSi0r.jpg "[BakedFish] Uchuu Patrol Luluco - 07 [720p][AAC].mp4_snapshot_04.48_[2016.05.18_16.44.18].jpg")
>>339531649
I'm not the one who's mad here bucko
>>339531775
>Speedrunners don't care about SA1
Are you mental? That shit has been picked apart just as hard as SM64
Are you meaning to tell me that you're admitting Nintendo has bigger autists than sega?(They do, but let's not go there right now. I know it hurts your internal narrative to acknowledge that people like Chris Chan were bigger Nintendofags than Sonic/segafags. Hell, Sonichu is half Nintendo creation afterall.)
Here's the difference. Your autistic QPUs just don't exist in SA1. Because it's a much more well designed game in terms of coding and bugtesting. It's nothing to be ashamed about. They're both great games at the end of the day. But don't lie because you want to make your company's epeen feel bigger.
>>339531970
>persecution
I'm not the one doing anything to claim that bugs aren't bugs, anon. SM64 is the one which is a holy grail of incontestability 10/10 game of all years.
>>339530789
I'm pretty sure it's mandatory to fall through the fucking level at least once while playing SA1 on DC. In fact, it often happens in the first stage.
people think mario 64 is a good game while thinking sonic adventure is a holy grail of shit?
also the genesis sonic games suck, mario is an mudane mediocore franchise as a whole. sonic got good from sa1-sa2. then started to pick up from unleashed.
Mario 64 is utter shit, god knows how people who still like it. are still alive today.
>>339532781
Actually, the hole you're thinking about is mostly in the shitty port. There is a hole there in the original and a few of the other ports, but it's much smaller. You also have to be rubbing your dick on the right side of a right turn and going slow to actually get it. There's 0 obstacles before it and plenty of lead up to the spot. You need to be intentionally going slow to hit it.
There's not many collision bugs on the floor in the game. Especially for a game of it's size that covers as much "square footage" as it does. And the one you're thinking about is the only one that's easy to get caught in.
This is how you know someone is a meming game-grumps faggot. Deny it all you want, but it's a dead giveaway.
>>339532421
Well you answered a question about why people think SM64 is better than SA1 by going on a tangent about a decade old console war and how the victors write history. There's definitely some salt going on. I don't care about Nintendo, the N64 was a generally a shit console and I'd honestly probably rather play the Sonic part of SA1 over M64.
It's just a trend I notice with Sonic fans, blaming everyone besides SEGA for Sonic's downwards spiral.
>>339533168
I only own the DC version, friend. You can go through several levels. I don't watch streamers or e-celebs, either. I actually LIKE SA1, but it's way, way more jank than SM64. Way, way more jank. Part of it is just the physics, though.
>>339533201
I'm willing to acknowledge sonic's flaws more than anybody. That game had some shit ideas in it. But being more buggy than SM64 was not one of them. It's not hard to shit on Sonic Adventure. But people who say things like "Sonic was never good" and "Sonic Adventure is buggy" are just trying too hard to fit in.
>>339532234
Pokemon is licensed by Nintendo, not made by them. Sonichu is also way more sonic than pokemon lmao.
>>339533454
Or they played the DX/Battle games which really shouldn't be held against them.
>>339533496
>All those gamecube and DS games
>All that pokemon stuff
Sonic and sega have been carrying this burden for far too long alone. He was everyone's fault.
All this talk of 3D platformers and no one has mentioned the true GOAT yet.
>>339501382
Didn't have a console when Mario 64 came out
For the longest time I ignored it while hearing its the best 3D Mario game
So a couple of years ago I tried it out on an emulator
Holly fuck the nostalgia is hard in this game
Mario 64 is not as good as every one else remembers it
I also tried after beating it Sunshine, Galaxy and Galaxy 2, and over all I think Sunshine is the best game, Galaxy and 2 are held back by the wagan, while sunshine is 64, but way better refined, controls are great, the only downside on it is level variety and flud being a boring gimmick, but as pure platforming goes, its fucking great, specially in the no fludd levels
Why the hell is sunshine bashed and 64 praised when it plays much better than 64, yeah I get it, 64 was the first competent 3D game for most people, but its not the golden egg of the franchise as every one thinks it is and its aged, not as bad as 3D sonic aged, but its pretty dated, while sunshine holds up much better Yes I know its much younger than 64 but I think Sunshine will always hold up better than 64 due to just how much better the gameplay is in the later and it could have been the best Mario game ever if the emphasis on fludd wasn't so strong
So what's a QPU?
>>339501382
Because SA has a lot of extra shit that ruins it. Literally, only the Sonic parts are good. Plus the ports were complete shit
>>339534202
Fucking this. Sunshine is vastly underrated.
>>339533874
>which really shouldn't be held against them.
I'm holding it against them.
I think this is probably where all this bullshit stems from, really. And goes back to my autism/revisionist history point earlier.
Sega and sonicfags have been tolerating Nintendofags who were very happy when Sonic went third party. The fans who got picked up by the sonic fandom from the gamecube days. And while Chrischan wasn't one of them, there was no doubt that he was ecstatic that his two favorite things were coming together. The Nintendofags-turned-sonicfags were probably the worst poison pill the sonic community could have ever taken. It was during their heady days that "We want to see sonic with a gun" was an idea that flew to the point that Sega listened.
I've noticed that these are the people who produce the most OCs, autism, and general shitposts. They have the worst ideas. And they lash out at anyone who goes against their narrative. They also have the worst inferiority complex between Sonic and Mario. One HAS to be better than the other. Worse than Sonicfags, worse than Mariofags. And they get fed in to by people who don't generally care but want to benefit off their autism. People like tumblrfags who didn't play either game, or youtubefags who just want internet friends.
At least, that's how I've read it, and I've been here for a long ass time. Too long, maybe.
>>339534202
A game isn't just a control scheme. You've literally outlined why Sunshine is the worst(no variety, levels being designed for FLUDD and not Mario's control scheme).
Mario 64 is better because it's a fantastic game designed around Mario's moveset with more than double Sunshine's levels and no gimmicks.Same with both Galaxy. It's not exactly the best at "pure platforming" when more than half the game doesn't need it.
>>339534000
Buzz was a bit slippery, probably trying to emulate SM64 playstyle, but over all is fucking great for a tie in movie game
AND DAT FUCKING OST
holly tits its great
>SM64
>play as mario 100%
>SA1
>play as sonic 25%
>play as everyone else not name sonic 75%
That's why op
>>339534768
I agree 64 has a much better level design ad variety, but I really cannot say with a straight face its the best when it plays like god damn shit when compared to the sequels
I can accept its most people's favourite, but mechanically its not the best, that goes to sunshine, and in variety, its not the best either, Galaxy is way more varied than 64
I found myself having way more fun replaying sunshine and galaxy than when I replayed 64
I guess there is no perfect Mario game, they all have big flaws that undermine them
>SM64
Shit controls
>SMS
Fludd and no level variety
>Galaxy & Galaxy 2
Wagan
I still have to play the WiiU and 3DS games (3D Land and 3D World) so I cannot comment on them
>>339501382
Kuckles made adventures boring as fuck. Only the sonic parts were I interesting
>>339534000
fuck I've never got past the elevator level, where you have to use the grappling hook in the air shaft.
It just didn't work and I've stopped playing in frustration and never got back.
Good shit tho.
Blew my mind, as a kid, that colors are made by other colors - in the construction site level...
>>339535658
I agree with most of your statement (except I have not played Galaxy). However, we have to remember that for Sunshine it was more work to make good levels. SM64 levels are pretty plain and also very much so feel like squares floating in skyboxes. It is a very barebones game.
I don't really know that I would say SM64 has shit controls, but they have their flaws and that is often related to the physics and camera more than anything. The N64 analog itself is not that good, either. Playing on a different controller on an emulator, the problems to me end up being slopes, momentum, camera, bonking, ledge grabbing, and contextual bullshit (I to this day do not understand when Mario will dive or when he will kick, or when triple jump will actuate under tight circumstances - maybe it has to do with a hidden momentum value?)
>>339534426
>>339501382
Because Sonic Adventure is shit, and I'm a huge Sonicfag. SA2 improved on it in every way.
>>339507721
Based Hugo.
https://youtu.be/djVbGFGbbbg?t=53s
