Is it truly better than Spirit Tracks?
Don't play the DS ones fammo
>>339456269
Yes 100%
>>339456269
The item selection and lack of microphone bits are better than Spirit Tracks, everything else is worse.
PH had really great item choices, everything is intuitive to use and has a clear purpose that you return to throughout the whole game. Zero gimmicks.
Fuck no
Still a decent game. Spirit Tracks was just leagues better
>>339457781
How so?
>>339456269
Spirit tracks was a bit better, though they both are enjoyable even with their obvious flaws
>>339456269
Spirit Tracks is better in almost every way. The only way it's not better is the overworld/vehicle gimmick. I mean they're both shit in that regard, but PH's is a lot less shit.
The controls are fucking stupid.
I paid money for this piece of shit on the wiiu Eshop and I played it for an hour solely so I could give it a one star review.
Playing it felt like the opposite of fun.
It is not. Anyone who says otherwise didn't play both games. Spirit Tracks expanded on PH and fixed its flaws. And despite the train's restrictions, you have more freedom of movement than you think. It also helps that it gave us the best Zelda since Tetra. A lot of charm to be had.
>>339457781
>Spirit Tracks was just leagues better
The dungeons, sure, but the overworld was way more painful to actually mess around in, getting extra parts is way harder to get and needs way more farming than PH did, the islands you visit aren't as fun to go through, and then you have the horrendous escort missions, phantom trains, and bunnies to deal with.
ST was better but the flute was so trash that it really hurt the game.
>>339456989
>Zero gimmicks
>You have to move around with a stylus like a fucking retard
>>339459516
Phantom Zelda is cute.
>>339456269
Nope. The ocean palace sucked and spirit tracks is morecomfy and fun.
While you are technically bound to train tracks, it's not really more restrictive than the island based WW and PH because the train tracks are just a network binding stops. In the end water is nothingness just as the train tracks are.
>>339456269
Spirit tracks is the worst zelda game ever created by far, anyone who says otherwise has objectively horrible taste
>>339459516
>you have more freedom of movement than you think
In what world do you live where this is true?
>You're slower than on the ship even at max speed
>You have to manually go to warp points to warp which means spending even more time when you need to get somewhere and then you have to honk the horn for it to open which stops if you get hit so being chased by enemies like in the fire area gets to be a pain in the ass when you need to get somewhere.
>You're stuck on rails which means turning around requires you either slowly back up or do another lap around whatever it is you're at.
>You have barely any freedom at all until you unlock a bunch of Force Gems which requires you to usually deal with a painfully slow escort mission.
>You can get instantly killed due to Phantom Trains blocking off your path since they read your chart to figure out where you're heading.
Granted this is only really a problem at the start of each area and right before endgame
In what way is tying you down to a track and generally making things more annoying "freer"? The only time you're stuck on a certain path in PH is when you had to go through that one rock formation to chase the Ghost Ship in a very specific way,
>there are people on this very board that hate these games
>there are people who couldn't grasp the extremely simple yet perfectly decent controls
People make me sick.
>>339459516
>And despite the train's restrictions, you have more freedom of movement than you think
I don't believe that for a second, and I fucking loved both games.
>>339456269
Spirit tracks had more content, but Linebeck was the best character
>>339456269
Nobody ever said that
Phantom hourglass is the fucking worst, it's only redeeming quality was linebeck
i played both and PH was more enjoyable
>>339460343
>other people don't enjoy eating shit
WOOOW
Spirit Tracks had a better soundtrack
>>339460343
I really hope we get more Zeldas like ST Zelda, she was fantastic, especially when Link and her interacted.
>>339456269
ST is better
>>339460343
I like the games but vehicle gimmicks are just the worst. ST would be a 10/10 but the train alone drags it down to a 7/10.
Boat was better than train, but other than that ST has PH beat. Especially in the Zelda department. 10/10 Zelda right there.
>>339456269
Yes and no. It's not as good as ST better parts but it doesn't have the obnoxious, time wasting padding, train thing that utterly murdered ST.
>>339460941
That's a fair enough assessment. No one could blame you for not liking that stuff, I adore the game but I could have done without it. I did kind of like the passenger sidequests but that's about it.
>>339460998
>Boat was better than train
>maneuverable vehicle and efficent warp system is better than rigid slug
HIS SON LIKES TRAIN
YES HE DOES
>>339460279
>You're slower than on the ship even at max speed
Because trains are oh so fast, right?
>You have to manually go to warp points to warp which means spending even more time when you need to get somewhere and then you have to honk the horn for it to open which stops if you get hit so being chased by enemies like in the fire area gets to be a pain in the ass when you need to get somewhere.
Just shoot the enemies and then go through your portal. You can stop during movement and the portal stays open when it gets big enough.
>You're stuck on rails which means turning around requires you either slowly back up or do another lap around whatever it is you're at.
And you still have freedom to move where you need to go to if you know your way around the area.
>You have barely any freedom at all until you unlock a bunch of Force Gems which requires you to usually deal with a painfully slow escort mission.
It's like the game is progressing you as you go along. Forbid you get everything handed to you on a platter.
>You can get instantly killed due to Phantom Trains blocking off your path since they read your chart to figure out where you're heading.
Only the armored trains. The normal trains can be stopped briefly with your cannon, and you can make an escape if you pay attention. Even the armored trains can be slowed down a little. The OHKO made the game more challenging, which is what I thought people wanted in a Zelda game. I guess not.
If you took the time to play the game instead of complaining about the game's obvious elements, you'd realize it gave you a challenge, a sense of danger and some strategic thinking to survive, and this is just the overworld.
>>339459516
>And despite the train's restrictions, you have more freedom of movement than you think
You'd have more freedom in a wheelchair.
>just now finding out that people disliked the train
I never had any problems with it and I rather liked it
Don't see why it would be an issue
>>339456269
Phantom Hourglass and Spirit Tracks could be ported to a phone and be decent.
>>339461424
Dude, ST was great but you are just trying way too hard to justify a transport system that just wasn't as good as the other one. If you like it that's fine but boat was still superior in every way and none of those things you said prove otherwise.
>>339461780
I can't really say I disliked it because it works well enough and honking the train horn is the greatest thing ever, but overall the boat is still superior. But damn, that horn.
Only slightly. Spirit Tracks was only worse because it fixed some gameplay issues from PH yet still managed to be worse in every other way, proving that the Zelda team had learned nothing.
>>339460418
Not him but I found the train to be more flexible because it let you change the route at any time unlike PH where you have to redraw your course in order to do stuff
In ST you don't even need to plan a course since you can just guide it yourself the way there and alter course immediately after you see a threat, not to mention that the train is faster and evading enemies is more consistent because of the different tracks
I liked the boat better. Gave me a more adventurous experience than a fucking train.
other than that ST was better in dungeon design, music, etc...
>>339461424
>Because trains are oh so fast, right?
Boats are apparently super fast things now? It takes you ages to get anywhere on the thing. Meanwhile the boat can get to any destination due to not being glued to a track and can generally cross the entire map in under a minute on feel speed.
>Just shoot the enemies and then go through your portal
and now you have to waste even more time before you get to actually warp. What a wonderful feature.
>And you still have freedom to move where you need to go to if you know your way around the area.
In a very limited capacity and in a very slow manner, especially so if you have no Force Gems.
>It's like the game is progressing you as you go along.
Even as it progresses the only real place that gets expanded decent is the forest one. You're stuck to a small amount of track options and extremely slow paths for the most part. To get them you have to do escort missions that require you to not get hit while everything swarms you or take an old fart around with you that gets pissed you're not tooting you horn at things attack you, taking corners smoothly, or going even slower than you were previously. Hell, you need at least 8 or so Force Gems before the forest opens as much as it does. It was painful.
> The normal trains can be stopped briefly with your cannon
and they carry on at nearly the same speed as you. Heaven help you if they box you in like they did to me constantly.
>>339461919
Just because you can draw a dick and balls as a pathway doesn't make it better. I didn't know trains could move as freely as boats on water, let alone in general.
>>339456269
Better like being covered in cuts is better than being covered in cuts and rolled through lemon juice.
>>339461919
>but overall the boat is still superior
I disagree. I don't dislike the boat but honestly I don't see how the boat is in any way better than the train
So what's the purpose of the train other than waste a ton of your time?
>>339459865
>While you are technically bound to train tracks, it's not really more restrictive than the island based WW and PH because the train tracks are just a network binding stops
Idiots in charge of disregarding execution when it suits their needs.
>>339460343
Previous handheld Zeldas controlled perfectly, why should I settle for decent? Because it's a forced gimmick?
>>339462408
That's because you're a retard.
>>339462186
>Boats are apparently super fast things now? It takes you ages to get anywhere on the thing. Meanwhile the boat can get to any destination due to not being glued to a track and can generally cross the entire map in under a minute on feel speed.
As I told that other anon, I didn't know trains could move so freely as boats.
>and now you have to waste even more time before you get to actually warp. What a wonderful feature.
All it takes is one tap and paying attention to where they appear. Sorry you have a short attention span.
>In a very limited capacity and in a very slow manner, especially so if you have no Force Gems.
It's almost like a real railroad system where you have to go through a set route. And it's almost like you have to go and explore around and find objectives. If the game held your hand, you'd complain about that, too.
>Even as it progresses the only real place that gets expanded decent is the forest one. You're stuck to a small amount of track options and extremely slow paths for the most part. To get them you have to do escort missions that require you to not get hit while everything swarms you or take an old fart around with you that gets pissed you're not tooting you horn at things attack you, taking corners smoothly, or going even slower than you were previously. Hell, you need at least 8 or so Force Gems before the forest opens as much as it does. It was painful.
If you PAYED ATTENTION, you'd have no problems. One mistake here and there, but it wasn't impossible.
>and they carry on at nearly the same speed as you. Heaven help you if they box you in like they did to me constantly.
Once more. PAY ATTENTION. This is why Skyward Sword did what it did: Mouthbreathers like you fucking it up for the rest of us.
>>339462107
Changing your route mostly just meant you have to maneuver around back to where you used to be or you have to move in reverse and back into a previous turn. It's not like drawing a path for the boat took more than a second or two if you already knew where you were going. And I don't see how it beings on-rails is a good thing compared to the freedom to move around however you see fit on the overworld. As for evading enemies, it's only more consistent because again, on rails. Enemies on the overworld aren't even a pain to begin with unless it's the demon trains and those are only an issue because you're on a set path to begin with.
Fuck, that was a lot of typing. I guess I sound bitter, but I just plain don't agree with any of that.
how are the Virtual Console releases of the DS Zeldas
it's almost JUNE and they're still not out in my region, what the fuck
>>339461241
I wish Aonuma would just fuck off. Two decades of ruining a series should be enough.
>>339462528
Some people like choo-choos a lot. I have a friend who admits full well that the boat is superior but he prefers the train simply because he's a train aficionado.
>>339462782
>Pay attention to this mercilessly stretched out minigame that's subpar even by 90s browser game standards!
>>339462653
What the fuck does that mean?
The ocean between the islands is nothingness. It could be represented as a network with a path between every island.
In ST the network is less connected, and for that network, the fun is navigating it so that you end up in the right place.
>muh 360 degrees of movement
This is a unique experience compared to WW. Play WW if you want to move 360 degrees in nothingness.
>>339462782
Jesus fuck, how asspained can you be over being told why what you like isn't as good as something else.
>>339462667
Because offering you the choice would mean that you'd go for the classic controls. Like 95% of the players out there. Which would mean that you wouldn't be able to appreciate Nintendo and Aonuma's genius. In their minds, giving people the choice would mean that their genius would be disregarded because people would go for the alternative since they're already familiar with it. Even worse, they may give their genius a quick try and dismiss it as lame after a couple of minutes because they're not familiar with it and don't want to.
Why do you think so many Nintendo Wii games don't offer alternate classic controls when they would fit better? Because Nintendo has to justify their systems gimmicks.
Like it or not, the Zelda franchise is just a testing ground for Aonuma's stupid ideas now so he can wow his son.
>>339462408
>I don't see how the boat is in any way better than the train
>Moves faster
>Is not tied down to any track whatsoever.
>Can jump to avoid enemy attacks
>Don't have to obey signs
>Don't have to slow down to a full stop to actually dock at an island.
The only downside was obviously having to redraw your path, but all you needed to do was basically make a bunch of circles if you actually had to fight something which you usually didn't.
>>339462782
>All it takes is one tap and paying attention to where they appear.
You realize they always appeared in groups of 3, right? and you could easily miss the enemies due to how they moved? and they usually didn't go down in a single hit so you had to focus on several enemies at a time while honking your horn?
>It's almost like a real railroad system where you have to go through a set route
and it's not enjoyable in any single way. Yes, you had to explore to unlock the roads, but the way you unlocked them was not fun and it barely opened up any paths that shortened or enhanced how you traveled.
>One mistake here and there, but it wasn't impossible.
I'm not saying it wasn't impossible, I'm saying that at the start of most areas when you have no Force Gems at all the trains would love boxing you in. I died at least three times due to this in the snow and forest area because there were no tracks to move to and the only path left was to go straight into an enemy. For crying out loud, this is the starting map.
The only challenge and fun the train actually provided was literally the end of the game when you had the asshole trains but you could actually kill them this time and you had to match their speed while going Pac Man to beat them.
It wasn't hard, it was just added tedium when the boat was actually way more fun to use and had none of these problems.
>>339462932
It's not my fault a Zelda game gave you a challenge and you pussied out. Note how every other Zelda title after it has been notably easier compared to it. That isn't coincidental.
>>339462994
You seemed to be the one butthurt. Don't worry, Zelda will never take risks again like it did with ST. I hope you enjoy your handholding in Zelda U.
>>339462667
I've played all the portable Zeldas and I don't see how the touch screen controls were any less usable than buttons. Moving is obvious, small strokes for horizontal slices or towards the enemy for vertical slices, a circle for the spin attack and hold the L or R buttons for the items. Sweet, simple, and not at all hard to remember. They even made rolling easier in ST by replacing the small circle with double tap. Shit was intuitive as fuck.
>>339463281
You're talking to the guy in the thread who liked touchscreen controls and you're accusing me of being butthurt over change?
>the train
>a challenge
Is that supposed to be a joke? How low is your threshold for challenge?
>>339462107
>I found the train to be more flexible because it let you change the route at any time unlike PH where you have to redraw your course in order to do stuff
This is beyond retarded, first you can't change the route any time you want, you need to reach crossings for that and the alternative, moving backwards, is just the most excruciating thing ever. PH allows you to move freely, the way YOU want, you have to redraw the route yourself, which doesn't take much time, allows you to cut corners, and more than anything the choice of how to move is all yours.
This shitty train on rails is the perfect analogy of why modern games are so fucking garbage these days : you have to follow the developers' vision, play in a rigid and boring way tha offers no room for the player to express himself. On the other hand the boat one is the perfect example of all the good things they dismissed to reach the dead end we're stuck at today : giving the player the freedom to play the way they want.
>not to mention that the train is faster
Kill yourself. With Fire.
>more consistent because of the different tracks
This makes no sense whatsoever. But the rest of your post was rubbish to begin with.
>>339456269
Aside from touch screen control, what do people exactly hate about these games?
>>339462972
Because it's not the contents that matter here as they're both mindless, unfun padding, it's the execution. PH does a much better job at not forcing it down the player's throat on that partunlike with the fucking paddind palacewhile ST just takes the player for the biggest moron ever.
>>339463738
A good chunk of it is just the touch screen controls. The other just really hate the Temple of the Ocean King from PH. I went in expecting to hate it but I found it to be mildly inconvenient at best, especially since the shortcuts you make every time let you more or less zip back through to where you left off. Granted, Spirit Tracks did it better but I still think people over exaggerate that part.
>>339463274
>You realize they always appeared in groups of 3, right?
Yes, and...?
>and you could easily miss the enemies due to how they moved?
And the cooldown for your cannon was short enough for you to fire again immediately.
>and they usually didn't go down in a single hit so you had to focus on several enemies at a time while honking your horn?
They don't attack instantly, and you can fire again as quickly as you first start. Did you actually try to play the game?
>and it's not enjoyable in any single way. Yes, you had to explore to unlock the roads, but the way you unlocked them was not fun and it barely opened up any paths that shortened or enhanced how you traveled.
If it wasn't fun, you should have stopped playing. And you didn't play it enough to know you got more and more tracks as you did more tasks.
>I'm not saying it wasn't impossible, I'm saying that at the start of most areas when you have no Force Gems at all the trains would love boxing you in. I died at least three times due to this in the snow and forest area because there were no tracks to move to and the only path left was to go straight into an enemy. For crying out loud, this is the starting map.
If you payed attention to the map, which shows everything that happens on the bottom screen, you'll know where to go and how to traverse. The trains were in a set position, and only the armored trains actively pursued you in their set coordinates.
I see why people didn't like this game: It gave you restrictions and made things more tense, which in turn makes your accomplishments more just and rewarding. You wanted Zelda U to be big and open, don't complain when it's not what you wanted.
>>339463579
Did you play the game? The bosses around mid game got challenging and the puzzles were notably well-designed, too. Everything about Spirit Tracks was designed to keep you on your toes and be mindful of your surroundings, like an actual conductor on the road. I see why most of you like Skyward Sword.
>>339463274
>The only downside was obviously having to redraw your path
For real, how fucking lazy can you be to complain about that part? This is takes little time and effort and is much more tolerable than TWW wind crap.
>>339463998
You should be a little more specific about what you think is wrong with it.
If you don't be more specific this is reduced to
>fuck you it's fun and comfy!
>fuck you it's unfun!
>>339462790
>you have to maneuver around
Maybe but that is not really more time consuming since the overworld on ST is more compact. changing directions or doing a slight detour isn't really that time consuming and you'll most of the time maintain your speed while doing so. In PH the boat hits 0 speed and starts again and it's acceleration and overall speed is way slower
>compared to the freedom to move around however you see fit on the overworld
I really don't see it as freedom of movement since you aren't directly controlling the boat, you are at mercy of the rough line you drew over a map that is very stretched out and not very detailed and even then the "freedom" is kinda wasted here since it's just a bunch of blue with mostly nothing happening and the map is bigger
I just like that I feel with much more control and involved in the train despite it ironically being on rails
>demon trains and those are only an issue because you're on a set path to begin with.
But you know their exact position and what are their movement options and you can plan accordingly as soon as you see them on the map and avoid them
As for enemies in PH there is no telling how much distance is needed for them to leave you alone so avoiding them is not something that you know with certainty and I find that kind of annoying since you have to guess
>>339463738
>PH
Temple of the Ocean King becomes redundant fast.
>ST
The train. More train. Even more train. Did I mention that the train takes forever to get anywhere, is absolutely tedious and the game likes to send you on multiple fetch quests toopen a goddamn doormake the plot progress?
Why do people hate Temple of the Ocean King?
It was fun to find new shortcuts and secrets every visit when you had a new item or something.
>>339464257
>You should be a little more specific about what you think is wrong with it
Boat = bad = game improves if removed
Train = bad = game improves if removed
Boat system allows you to spend less time with it than the Train system does = Boat is better than Train
>>339464130
>Did you play the game?
I beat it 100% twice, you judgemental fuck. I enjoyed almost everything about it, particular the Sand Temple with the sand wand because that was some fun shit. Hell of a boss. I loved a bunch of it, and cruising on the train could be very enjoyable. That doesn't change the fact you're being an ass because other people like the boat better than the train for very valid reasons, not to mention being snobby as hell.
>>339463738
PH had some really spotty controls particularly with the rolling, the Ocean King's Temple revisits(Though I learned to like it in the end due to the shortcuts you get and the 25 minute run), and the dungeons and areas you went to were very hit or miss.
ST had the train and everything about it, the flute, the escort missions, those horrendously bad bunnies that made me want to die every time I missed one since you had to zone out to respawn them, and I personally would say the islands were not that great but that's quite up for debate.
Keep in mind a bunch of people just hate that they're locked to stylus only controls which is understandable since there's button hacks that work perfectly fine and they had a skeleton that was basically laughing at people who complained about it in playtesting.
One added problem nowadays is since Wi-Fi is dead you now have to grind for rare treasures that have such low rates it's disgusting, and in ST it's even worse since you can't farm Beedle as quickly as you could like in PH.
>>339464130
>Yes, and?...
>And the cooldown for your cannon was short enough for you to fire again immediately.
The cooldown for your cannon was huge, same as in PH. You had to wait until you had smoke appearing before you could fire again and you'd have the enemy already ready to hit you at that point. It was awful in the fire area for example since you had those three to six flying things spawn to hit you and they attacked quickly right outside of one of the warps.
>And you didn't play it enough to know you got more and more tracks as you did more tasks.
I 100% the game including all the train pieces. The paths you opened up were just barely any shorter than the original ways you had open at the start.
>The trains were in a set position
They would still read your map and move to block you regardless, and usually the only option is sitting back waiting until it's actually safe to move ahead where they can still decide to cut you off.
>>339464523
It's redundant. Especially at the beginning before you get good shortcuts.
>>339463738
>All dungeons have the same music
>All dungeons are one floor and are basically a bunch of connected chambers without seperations
>Every boss is a gimmick where you have to sribble on the screen
>Sailing is just drawing a straight line to where you want to go
>For a game based on WInd Waker it takes a giant shit on it
I assume Spirit Tracks is the same
>>339464530
Ok so you have absolutely nothing to say. Thanks for responding anon.
I don't know why I keep clicking on LoZ threads when they're consistently awful. I'm really a masochist.
>>339464602
>One added problem nowadays is since Wi-Fi is dead you now have to grind for rare treasures that have such low rates it's disgusting, and in ST it's even worse since you can't farm Beedle as quickly as you could like in PH.
Holy shit, I completely forgot these games had online capabilities with the items. I don't even remember how it worked.
>90% of people on here say the DS controls are bad
I'm beginning to think most of this board isn't nearly as good at video games as they say they are....
>>339464902
They try to convince themselves it's the game rather than them being bad.
>>339464902
I think a more likely explanation is that LoZ attracts casuals, including the casuals who wandered over to /v/.
>>339464760
I'm looking at my boxes right now and only PH has the Wi-Fi symbol. It was basically a Link vs Link fight if I remember right. You were put into an arena and did you best to beat the other one. Either that or you fought a Phantom while you were Link and had to his them in the back. Whoever won got a rare treasure that wasn't common in their game.
>>339464902
I thought they were okay, though I wish they had allowed for buttons if you wanted them. My only problems were honestly getting a stab to work at times and not rolling in PH.
>>339464902
The controls are strictly worse than any other Zelda before it.
Usable yes, but they really have no justification of being this way.
>>339465190
Strange, I don't remember that at all. I guess in the end it doesn't matter since I managed to git gud at the archery mini-game and won all the gold ship parts from it. Felt good leaving Linebeck with a beauty like that.
>>339465190
>>339465208
>These are the same people who tell you to GIT GUD XD at Dark Souls and the like
Truly embarrassing.
>>339464542
If I'm being a snob, it's because most of these complaints can be addressed by paying fucking attention to your fucking surroundings. You can clear a swarm of enemies with no problem, you can stop a projectile with your own. You can refill health with the countless rocks laying around the environment. All of these fucking complaints are minuscule and can easily be addressed by paying attention to what you need to do and everything else around you.
This is why Skyward Sword came out the way it did. Fuck all of you who ruined Zelda with that game's conception.
FUCK THE GODDAMN SPIRIT PAN FLUTE. PLAYING AN ACTUAL INSTRUMENT IN REAL LIFE IS EASIER THAN THAT PIECE OF SHIT
>>339465478
Ok hotshot, what is it that PH controls do better than the classic scheme?
>>339465208
>i'm going to use mathematical words like strictly
>without being precise at all
>or providing any justifications of my drivel
Good fucking work trying to sound smart.
Yes the input is less precise and quick than pressing a button, but LoZ doesn't need frame perfect ultra precision input. Drawing on the touchscreen has excellent gamefeel. It feels g o o d to swipe and have Link slash, just as desperately pressing the jump button to flutter jump feels g o o d in Yoshi's Island.
>>339465478
They didn't fucking say that. Christ, how many people in this thread are projecting so fucking hard because others don't agree with them?
>>339465516
Like this fucker.
>>339465570
>I mean yeah, it's worse in every way on technical level, but it has gamefeel!
Holy shit.
it's pretty good
I haven't played spirit tracks tho
>>339465570
I liked the controls but that was one of the dumbest things I've read.
>>339465667
>i want every game to be mlg
>i do not understand why gamefeel is good
This is an easy single player game, not fucking counterstrike.
>>339465561
They don't do anything better, but they're not the unholy abomination that /v/ regularly makes them out to be. They're perfectly fine.
>>339465561
They're obviously not better but I never found myself going FUCK THESE CONTROLS except maybe a roll once or twice in PH. Perfectly good in my book.
>>339463656
>you need to reach crossings for that and the alternative
...Yeah, that's how being on a road is like.
You know you can set the train to turn whenever you get to the crossing right?
>PH allows you to move freely, the way YOU want
In an empty space that is all blue. but the question is why would I want to?
I want to get to my destination, not do circles in nothingness because just dicking around because I have "freedom" isn't my idea of fun
>you have to follow the developers' vision, play in a rigid and boring way tha offers no room for the player to express himself
Drawing a line is expressing yourself?
>This makes no sense whatsoever.
How does it not? you know what are your and the enemy's movement options and routes both of you can take so predicting their moves is easier and avoiding them is something that is in your control and not just hoping that you are out of their range
>>339465736
What a quality response. You're most likely falseflagging but if you aren't, maybe you should share your thoughts anon.
>>339465435
In PH I just date changed with Beedle since getting a bunch of rupees was trivial and you could just cycle his inventory until he got the specific blueprints in. In ST it was a bit more annoying since date changing required you to go in, stop somewhere, save, and only then could you actually change the date to refresh his wares. If I remember right you could just farm for Regal Rings in PH to afford everything and in ST you had to lose your mind at the whip game since it was the fastest way to get the rare treasures.
Spirit Tracks is better than Phantom Hourglass, but neither are great.
Spirit Tracks is kinda like the tallest midget of all misfit Zelda games. It's the best mediocre game, but it's still a mediocre game.
>>339466087
>Spirit Tracks is kinda like the tallest midget of all misfit Zelda games. It's the best mediocre game, but it's still a mediocre game.
What a goddamn masturbatory thing to say. Being so critical doesn't make you a critic faggot.
>>339466164
Everyone is a critic, but not necessarily a good one
>>339465646
Because you faggots complain about the game's attempt at giving you a challenge and shit on it. If you took the time to play it thoroughly, you'd see all the complaints made weren't gamebreaking or hindering, especially when you learned how to play it. You're no less guilty at projecting than we are.
Don't get mad when people who played a game properly call you out for being lazy.
>>339464902
They are bad next to classic ones.
>>339466025
>he doesn't agree with me so he must be lying
/v/ these days. Maybe I just didn't agree that the touch controls feel like the best thing ever. I can be perfectly fine with the controls and even like them but disagree with that. And while Zelda doesn't require zero lag input shit like a fighting game it's certainly nice to have.
>>339465532
Another idiotic piece of shit next to the train. If you add all the pros and cons from both games, PH ends up being the most tolerable experience.
>>339466346
Share with the class why you like them then. You don't get to be a hypercritical faggot without exposing yourself to criticism.
It's also good to know that
>excellent gamefeel
means
>best thing ever
Good reading comprehension.
I only got through three or four dungeons in Spirit Tracks before dropping it. The controls didn't bother me at all, but the game just wasn't very compelling to me. It was a bit tedious.
>>339456989
>The item selection and lack of microphone bits are better than Spirit Tracks, everything else is worse.
The overworld and warp system are also infinitely better.
>>339465923
>I found the train to be more flexible because it let you change the route at any time
You went from yapping about how the train could change course any time to adcknoledge that it could only do so at crossings. Because you're a bit slow I'll spell it out for you, it's a contradiction. Try to be consistent at least.
>In an empty space that is all blue. but the question is why would I want to?
Save up time of course. Something the train refuses to let you do.
>I want to get to my destination
Certainly doesn't sound like you do.
>I have "freedom" isn't my idea of fun
Some people are helplessly retarded. You're one of them.
>Drawing a line is expressing yourself?
To an extend you can't imagine. You're clearly an idiot but by now it can't be more obvious.
>How does it not? you know what are your and the enemy's movement options and routes both of you can take so predicting their moves is easier and avoiding them is something that is in your control and not just hoping that you are out of their range
The word you're looking for is rigid, not consistent.
Spirit Tracks probably easily had the better bosses, but the train was annoying as all fuck. Both are good but their problems kind of cancel out any superiority one might have over the other.
>>339467120
Removed the boat and train from their respective games and ST comes out as largely superior. Otherwise, it's pretty 50/50.
I think we're all getting a bit too hostile about a pair of old DS games.
>>339466769
>The overworld and warp system are also infinitely better
>can get anywhere you want in a fast and efficient manner
>do the exact opposite for the sequel
Fuck Aonuma, fuck his son and fuck Nintendo for allowing it.
>>339467378
I'm hostile to the bullshit they put in. Which becomes even more blatant when you have genuinely fun parts.
Completely off-topic, but I'm playing Link's Awakening for the first time and this is some fun shit. Second boss was a pain in the ass, though.
>>339467006
What I meant was that you can change directions without having to stop the train to draw another track. You are purposely misinterpreting stuff only to aid your argument because nobody will actually say that you can get off the train tracks and do whatever
>Save up time of course
In a bigger map with a slower vehicle, yes the boat is slower, and setting your speed at 0 whenever you have to change direction doesn't sound very fast
>Certainly doesn't sound like you do.
How doesn't it? I will try to go straight to my destination in both PH and ST, I won't bother with "expressing myself" by just drawing doodles in my map just because I can
>just dicking around because I have "freedom" isn't my idea of fun
At least quote the complete idea instead of purposely misinterpreting stuff yet again
>Some people are helplessly retarded. You're one of them.
elaborate
>The word you're looking for is rigid, not consistent.
I know the word I wanted and it was consistent.
There is consistency to be found in a better defined map and movement patterns
>>339467982
that's nice
>>339467982
Make sure you play the Oracles after. They're great fun and more of the same kind of gameplay design.
>>339456269
Yes, it is. The train gimmick was shit.
>>339468121
I'm actually going to play Skyward Sword and the Oracles after. I want to alternate between the 2D and 3D titles I haven't played yet and I want to see if SS is as bad as people say it is.
>Game glitched and phantom trains stopped spawning
Using the train was very enjoyable for me.
>>339468121
>you will never date Rosa;__;
>>339469489
It's not a glitch, you either get the trains or enemies when you enter an area around the half way point of the game. For example, in the forest you get tanks that spawn near the starting village that drop your framerate down to single digits. If the trains are there the tanks never appear.
>>339469269
It is. It took me around three years to finally beat it and it's just the most tedious and annoying thing to play. People will slightly exaggerate on how bad it really was but it's high up there.
The Zelda and Link chemistry is great though, Skyloft is a fantastic hub, and there's some nice side quests to do. It's a shame about most everything else.
>>339469948
I got enemies every single time. What are the chances of that?
>>339470170
I think they're just a high chance, I would get them most of the time but very rarely you'll enter and the trains will be there. Only happened twice if I remember right and then once endgame started it would mostly just be train encounters in the ice area and forest.
Did she come out for Hyrule Warriors yet? I checked the eShop an hour ago and didn't see anything.
>>339469269
Skyward Sword starts really strong but it derails once you get to the point where they just recycle stuff you've already seen. Going throught he forest is fun, going through the forest when you already cleared the interesting stuff isn't. The game even starts shortchanging you on unique enemies because you'll be fighting the same bokoblin shits or if you're lucky, ELECTRIC BOKOBLINS.
Thank goodness for the sand sea.
It reminds me of Silent Hill 4 but without ghosts bugging you every 20 seconds.
>>339470518
>Thank goodness for the sand sea.
But there's nothing in the sand sea at all. Like, you'll get Octoroks and that's about it, but you can just swim on by since the areas are huge and nothing chases you due to the time field.
>>339470672
Not him, but while that is true, the Sand Sea is the only part of the game that felt fresh every time you visited it.
>>339469948
>>339470518
Sounds about right. Still, I managed to enjoy TP even with all its flaws so I'll probably just think SS is mediocre at worst. Plus I'm intrigued by all this Groose I keep hearing about.
>>339470917
Fair point, especially right at the start where you can see underwater for the first time and you see the coral and plant life and stuff, that was great. I just wish there were hidden things there or anything at all.
>>339470918
Groose is pretty great.
>>339468010
>What I meant was that you can change directions without having to stop the train to draw another track
You're basically condemning a limitation to praise even bigger and more numerous limitations.
>In a bigger map with a slower vehicle, yes the boat is slower
There is no bigger map, there's PH's and ST's, moving to point A to point B is faster no matter what in PH.
>setting your speed at 0 whenever you have to change direction doesn't sound very fast
Faster than the train in any cases. It's that bad.
>How doesn't it?
Pushing for the train over the boat gives it away. If getting to the destination was your priority, you'd do the opposite.
>I won't bother with "expressing myself" by just drawing doodles in my map just because I can
No, instead you bother with as slower and more cumbersome way of navigating the world.
>At least quote the complete idea instead of purposely misinterpreting stuff yet again
You're forsaking freedom to move around to embrace less freedom to move around. That's just how it is.
>elaborate
You're condemning a limitation to praise even bigger and more numerous limitations. You are a retard.
>I know the word I wanted and it was consistent
Retard.
>There is consistency to be found in a better defined map and movement patterns
There is rigidity to be found in a more rigid map and forcing rigif movement patterns.
FTFY
>>339470518
>Skyward Sword starts really strong
>takes around a couple hours to reach the first dungeon and finally have some semblance of fun
Hurr.
>Going throught he forest is fun,
Durr.
>>339466273
Phantom Hourglass wasn't challenging at all. There is a difference between difficulty and discomfort. The delay for rolling and using weapons and such doesn't even hurt you much, it just makes the game less fun because you have less immediate control. The game didn't even benefit from the stylus. You could control the boomerang but there's little worth using it on.
That said, people rag on the controls because it's the first, most obvious, and simplest to explain flaw with the game, not because it's the worst one. It was bland as hell, and unlike most Zeldas it couldn't fall back on comfortable exploration because besides the controls, the overworld was a disjointed mess on rails. There was basically nothing redeemable about the game that wasn't named Linebeck.
I don't know just how bad Spirit Tracks was because I have no desire to play Phantom Hourglass 2.0.
>>339471780
>You could control the boomerang but there's little worth using it on.
Didn't the Oracles have a boomerang you could control?
Touch Screen feels pretty forced.
