>Doom, despite early previews and impressions, ended up a viable and worthy successor to the fast-paced Doom 1 & 2
>Wolfenstein learned from the mistakes of '09 and married old school sentiments with modern design refinements and a healthy sense of irony into a great alt-history game with New Order
>both games emphasizing the superiority of medkits and carrying the whole arsenal at once over 2-weapon limits and hiding to regenerate health
>Serious Sam 4 will be a thing eventually
>the most hyped multiplayer FPS in recent memory is a goofy and vibrant class-based shooter with characters constantly flying all over the place
>overall dwindling interest in the franchises that killed the fast-paced FPS like Halo and COD
why is she angry?
When?
Shadow warrior 2013 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> TNO
Devs are the ones to blame over most a 2 weapon limit makes sense for a war based realistic (or semi-realistic) shooter, the problem was the idiot devs that made their sci-fi futuristic or fantasy shooters play the same way.
Doom style gameplay in a modern war setting would be fucking stupid, just as stupid as the way the new COD games or Titanfall play.
>>339389520PMS
>>339388874
T I M E S P L I T T E R S
>>339389520
>RIPPED AND TORN VAGINA BY DEMONS
>>339389620
Haven't played TNO but played SW13 and despite a lot of good things, it quickly became repetitive. It's still better than Hard Reset though. Both these shooters (as well as Painkiller) tried too hard to imitate that frantic fun arena horde style of Serious Sam, but failed in actual combat planning, levels size, enemies design and their overall number. Noone did it better than Croteam still.
>>339389807
>Doom style gameplay in a modern war setting would be fucking stupid
Replace demons with space Nazis or terrorists or Russians and it's still fun.
Honestly I've been thinking this recently. And thank fucking god. The popularity of the console shooter completely stifled creative FPS for the past decade.
Don't forget about UT4 and LawBreakers
>>339390750
i agree, cooking mama with that gameplay would be fun
>>339388874
Eternal Crusade is fucking amazing and if you're steathily viralling, enjoy being cursed by Kek :^)
>>339390985
>UT4
doa
>LawBreakers
literally no one cares
>>339391271
>UT4
>doa
I play everyday in full servers
>Are we in an FPS renaissance?
I wish but probably not. If Shadow Warrior 2 turns out to be as good as DOOM 4, hopefully that seals the deal and we start getting more fast paced games again. I would kill for a new Timesplitters. Fuck, I'd be happy for now with an HD collection.
>>339389520
Denuvo killed modding
>>339391413
prove it
It's nice that they are bringing the pace of old fps back, but now I wish they stopped and brought back the level design.
All these new "oldschool" shooters like SW2013, New Order, D44M just changed the linear corridor for a linear sequence of arenas. Maybe they should have looked to their own franchises for inspiration instead of serious sam.
It's my only complain about current fps games though.
Oh and rpg elements, fuck them.
>>339391880
Arenas > corridors
>>339391458
I really hope that SW 2 gets to be actually good, since there are a lot of people that despise it for having a boderlands tipe of open world, but i don't really mind that.
I just want to shred demons with a katana
>>339391880
I'm with you there, I like the general direction but some of the details are fuckey. At the very least the human see human do of the industry means that we'll get plenty of shots for someone to get it right.
Unreal 2 when?
>>339391880
>linear sequence of arenas
i.e. a better way of designing FPS games.
Doom 4 did a pretty good job of not just getting what was great about the original but also cutting out what wasn't.
>>339391880
I'd rather have linear arenas than linear corridors.
Also I really hate DOOM 2 level design so I'm not all that much of a fan of too labirynthian design.
>>339391880
Ditching dry-humping the environment to find keycards is an acceptable thing to have left behind.
As long as the arenas are good, the level design is good.
>>339391880
>Oh and rpg elements, fuck them.
i don't mind them
>>339392169
id should hire the guys who made DTWID.wad to make some levels.
>>339391880
>Oh and rpg elements
An upgrade system isn't really an RPG element, its a progression system. Effectively no different than getting better guns as the game progresses, just more extensive.
In all honesty, I am not particularly interested in Doom. I see nothing in that game, I think it's overly simplistic and way roo easy. It certainly didn't tempt me away from Destiny, what with its weak gunplay and subpar enemy and combat design (compared to the Taken), that's for sure.
For my money, there hasn't been an FPS that is outstanding in every aspect released since Bioshock Infinite.
Overwatch is legit great though.
>>339392338
The less time spent in menus the better. And that's not a pacing thing.
>>339390376
yup, it's a shame because i love the guns and art in pk, it's a shame it's a series of endless monster arenas.
doom16 also falls in to this trap on several of the maps.
>>339392229
I really like the rpg level sistem, since it actually makes me feel like my character has become more powerful after all the fights and battles.
>>339391578
heres a match i had yesterday
>>339392445
>The less time spent in menus the better.
That is a stupidly broad statement that very obviously doesn't hold up. Be more specific.
>>339391271
It needs to arrive first for it to be dead on arrival.
please don't imply that overshill 2.5 is part of a "renaissance"
its just another phase of tigole's ongoing crusade to replace all fun with esports and obliviousness
>make it so every single wad ever made was canon
>even take inspiration from some
>put denuvo in the game
>literally no mods
you cant make this shit up
>>339392673
Arena shooter is a fucking dead genre, it's already dead before even being finished.
>>339392627
It's feedback anon. It's more impactful if it can happen in game. And it's not like such systems never existed before.
>>339388874
don't forget Homefront, it's actually extremely good
>>339392850
Well that's already being more specific. So you're just looking for a Hard Reset style upgrade station?
>>339392428
notice how no one even cared
>>339392338
In those games you literally level up and gain points to spend.
It is different than getting better guns.
Gun pickups were designed and put on certain locations of levels with a purpose.
Leveling system is just a lazy design.
>>339392610
Why's the character model look so bad? I thought the new UT Is supposed to be beaut?
>>339389520
Demons offered to help her carry those heavy weapons.
>>339392610
>Cpt. Beefheart
best username
>>339389807
god forbid games dont be taken seriously
>>339392045
this
>>339392928
is 2 any good?
>>339393039
Because almost everything in UT4 is placeholders right now.
Only a few maps are actually finished.
>>339393105
i was talking about the new one yeah
>>339392986
No. You can do it with just pickups. Fucking unreal 1 does it better than doom 4. And a lot of that is mostly due to level and enemy design allowing you to actually stress the differences between weapons.
>>339388874
>wolf 09
>bad
its single player was good even with respawning hub points.
overhype is popular for the same reason cod4 took over counter strike. the existing standard is outdated with little development interest. this creates a market gap.
>>339393202
Ahh ok gotcha, thanks anon
>hyped for the game
>>339393020
>Leveling system is just a lazy design.
Don't be an idiot, its just more flexible. Upgrades let you chose your play style somewhat more than just giving out guns. There's nothing lazy about giving players options as long as your game allows them to take advantage of those options, same way you have to design your game to take into account that players may or may not have found secrets.
>>339393039
Because the character models look like shit. It's pre-alpha.
Some of the stages look beautiful like outpost but that's because that map has had the most work put into it
>>339392045
Classical organic levels are better than both.
>>339391271
>doa
what makes you say that?
>>339392843
>implying
Would you play UT4 game mode where you would have base construction mechanics like in Savage, Savage 2 orSavage ressurection, it's out, go play itand economy + vehicle mechanics from Renegade X?
>>339392428
Destiny is not hard. Get the best 2 or 3 guns and some friends and then just sit in a corner. Fuck off
>>339392850
>Descent 2
I hope we truly do have a 6DoF renaissance alongside this FPS renaissance. Things are looking up with all the projects out now.
>>339393628
Bullshit, arenas give the developer more control of player interactions and thus can be designed better.
>>339393735
They also make that control more felt in game, makes it feel less natural.
>>339393320
Right now the only things "finished" art-wise are some maps and the weapons. Character models and rest of maps still have placeholder assets.
>>339393320
you should try it anon, its free and a lot of fun.
It might lack polish in its visuals but its gameplay is purely UT
>>339393715
Wouldn't it have to have taken off in the first place for there to be a renaissance?I hope you're right
>>339393339
>same way you have to design your game to take into account that players may or may not have found secrets.
So do that again. It feels much more natural. This is the same thing as developers implementing regenerating healthor enemies dropping health, because they're too lazy to design a balanced level around health packs.
>>339388874
I want them to bring back Heretic and Hexen.
>>339393735
>lazy developers
FTFY
cant be wastin' time designing mazes when a empty room will do
>>339393859
>Wouldn't it have to have taken off in the first place for there to be a renaissance?
It did take off - it was just among all the patrician players who graduated from playing baby games like DOOM and Quake.
>>339393778
Don't kid yourself, they're both artificial as fuck. Doom had more than its share of arenas, you just could sometimes enter them from a few different angles. Still knew you were in one when you got there though.
>>339391880
Serious Sam level design > DOOM / Build engine era level design
>Serious Sam 4 will be a thing eventually
yeah and it will be set in fucking modern Europe because that's exactly what comes to my mind when I hear Serious Sam - a modern city as if that fucking Modern Warfare SS3 bullshit wasn't bad enough
even that dogshit SS2 had varied, interesting enviroments
Alright lads.
If the MC in the next doom game is a female, what would be your reaction
>>339394389
I have no idea what the fuck is Croteam thinking by making a prequel to a prequel.
>>339392843
I'll never understand, but always pity the kids on this board who revel in the fact that arena fps is dead.
How sad and bitter must you be to hope for such a fun rewarding genre to not make a comeback simply. What's even the reasoning?
How pleb are your tastes?
>>339394114
Actually, its because mazes make for boring as fuck levels. There isn't a single good Doom level based around a maze. Not one. All the good ones are arenas connected by corridors. Seems logical to cut out the middle man there.
>>339394243
No shit they're both artificial, but you feel it less in the classic design. Obviously you know they put that imp there in doom 1 and doom 4. But at least in the classic games they didn't tell you exactly how long you had to hang out in a room and exactly what order you had to do them.
>>339394370
Fuck no. I love SS more than Doom but SS literally doesn't have level design
>>339394476
It means Crash is now a canon character.
>>339393414
>It's pre-alpha.
lovin how this meme has gone from "it's beta" > "it's alpha" and now it's "pre-alpha" what the fuck excuse are you drones gonna use next?
>>339394220
Patrician doesn't describe 6dof
>>339393990
Enemies dropping health is there to encourage getting in close to enemies when you are at low health instead of running back to medkits you left earlier in the level, which was a significant problem with the original's pacing. Its actually pretty damn good design.
>>339394483
>>339394389
Guys, relax. The shot of Sam in front of the Eiffel Tower is an old BFE concept art. Also, because of time travel shenanigans, BFE is both the first and last point in the timeline. A prequel to BFE could either entail right before BFE or right after TSE, since both would take place before.
>>339394671
80% of the maps don't have textures yet.
>>339394671
Gotta try harder than that
>>339388874
t. Torish Hovarid
>>339394764
>>339394821
>IT'S PRE-EXISTANCE IT'S NOT EVEN A CONCEPT YET
>>339394596
>you
No, you do. And that's due to your own irrational biases instead of any objective superiority of one style of the other.
>>339394618
The levels itself are very basic, it's the encounter scrips that make the game. The spawning of waves is very deliberate. Fighting kleer and werebulls in an open arena is different from fighting bio mechs. Doom style games never spawn in enemies, so there is rarely any element of surprise or suspense.
>>339394618
Encounter design is part of level design.
We've left the generation of Dota-likes and we are now headed into the generation of tf2-likes thanks to Overwatch.
Don't expect many twitch shooters like UT4 or Quake.
>>339395050
>tf2-like
nah
even battlefield class system take more skills than overwatch.
>>339394389
Stop shitposting. Have you seen The Talos Principle? Do you know that these Rome and Medieval locations were (and I'm sure will be) the actual parts of Serious Sam 4? Also, modern environments can be as good as ancient ruins as long as you have enough big space.
>>339394476
I hope she gets lots of cute fanart.
>>339394731
It will be a fucking prequel to BFE with actual France and Paris. And it's alright. Don't kid yourself.
>fast-paced movement and combat
>interesting non-linear level progression, includingpossibility of getting caught in time-travel loops of levels[/spoilers]
>powerful, mindfuck plot involving reality shifts and alien factions manipulated by rogue human AI's
>orgasmic ending based aroundthe player character becoming a component of causality itself, the universe shifting to your will
I love this game to pieces, greatest FPS of all time. I wish I could wipe my memory and experience it for the first time over and over
>>339394618
Another stupid nigger. SS actually HAS level design. It's 100% appropriate for that kind of game where you literally fight hundred enemies at once. If SS had corridors and mazes, that would be boring as fuck, and even non-linearity wouldn't improve that.
>>339393735
>arenas give the developer more control of player interactions
How so?
>>339394671
Do you even know how games are made logistically? Like the stages they go through during the process of creation?
>>339395343
>source: your ass
>>339395232
As long it's nothing like SS3 it's more than fine.
>>339395609
Serious Sam already IS boring as fuck because it's predictable and samey past the beginning which surprise surprise has a lot of corridors and closed spaces. Tighter corridors allow for a lot more movement strategy when fighting enemies besides the backpedalling/circle strafing
>>339395635
You know how your player is going to enter, and where your player is going to stay.
Its not really that novel of a concept, Doom used this design plenty.
>>339395343
>being that stupid
https://steamcommunity.com/app/257510/discussions/0/617328415076815745/
>not enjoying all kinds of gameplay, realizing that everyone copying the same thing is the bane of the industry
It's like none of you are old enough to remember when every game tried to be Duke Nukem/Quake/Unreal, and games like GR and R6 were the only exceptions to the massed arcadey play.
>>339395232
I don't play fucking puzzle games and just because it had some medieval locations doesn't mean it has anything to do with SS4 you homo.
>>339395609
And I still don't think it's "level design" compares to doom
>>339395805
It would be sorta tough, seeing as Vanquish's mobility focused on you actually seeing your player character.
I guess the closest thing is Superhot
>>339396183
I'm old enough to be very sad I will never again play that rogue spear mod that added a gatling gun that played a soundbyte from predator.
also yeah what he said publishers have always chased whats popular.
>>339395805
literally nu doom
or if you want something more "rhythmic": f.e.a.r
>>339395878
Bullshit, Doom had corridors out the ass and they were boring as fuck. Limiting player movement works up to a point, which is why SS will close off paths behind arenas, but limit it too much and you're just mowing down enemies as strafing slightly, which is all Doom corridors are.
>>339396126
You just proved him right you autist.
>>339395907
Arenas go against the entire idea of the player "staying somewhere" so any kind of tight controlled design goes out the window and it's all about a more sandbox approach to the combat where they give the player some elements in the environment to play around with rather than manipulating the player to go where they want them to be. Doom's classic level design was all about guiding the player and then surprising them. Not to mention making different scenarios depending on which path the player takes. Classic Doom also allowed for tight design by having simple, predictable monsters that could be placed strategically and be in the same general area the designer wanted them to be, instead of running all over the place and destroying any kind of thoughtful placement like some enemies do in Doom 4.
>>339388874
> Blood will never be brought into 2016+
>>339396620
obligatory fuck atari post
seriously
Is he ever coming back, /v/?
>>339392428
>Overwatch a better shooter than Doom
You know what I'd like to see now that DOOM has been brought into the modern sphere?
A DOOM vs Duke Nukem crossover game. I'm not talking DNF Duke Nukem, but proper duke. Fast-paced Duke. Doomguy running around fighting pig cops and aliens while Duke is sent to hell and has to try and fight and fly his way out to rescue the babes back on earth. Culminating on the two heroes ending up needing toDuke it outwith each other to try and save the world because lolplot.
>>339390750
Watch out there buckaroo, i'm warning you. Doom (or properly; DOOM) is not 'COD of duty'. Why? John Romero
>>339396323
Play some actually difficult wads and you'll find yourself figuring out the correct sequence to do areas in, dashing past monsters for power ups, finding the best places for cover and thinking on your feet when ambushed. None of those are a thing in Serious Sam. Doom is at its worst when it's the closest to Serious Sam, as in when ti's just really shitty open areas which you circle strafe through while shooting
>>339395878
>it's predictable and samey
Just like Doom or any other FPS, what a surprise!
>Tighter corridors allow for a lot more movement strategy when fighting enemies besides the backpedalling/circle strafing
whatthefuckimreading.jpg
>>339388874
They should've used a chick for Doom 4. Would have gone well with the whole speed angle.
>>339396620
>Wanting the game to be recreated as a series of arenas
Might as well just play Painkiller
>>339394476
erect
>>339388874
>implying The New Order was better than Wolfenstein 2009
Bethesda plz go
>>339396782
Yes. He's coming back this year in apparently a new episode with new lines by JSJ.
BITCH I KNOW ABOUT BAZINGA. HOPING TO GOD TX PUTS SOME SENSE INTO GEARBOX.
>>339396880
>Just like Doom or any other FPS, what a surprise!
Is that why people are still playing Doom wads constantly to this day? Is that why people love speedrunning Quake so much? I doubt most Serious Sam "fans" even bothered finishing the game without quicksave abuse, because it highlights how fucking dull the game is.
>>339396829
>None of those are a thing in Serious Sam.
And this is why it's better.
>>339394476
as long as she's still a silent angry brute that's completely focused on killing demons.
>>339388874
People are slowly starting to realize that Halo and CoD are cancers on the industry and that fast-paced FPS games is where it was always at.
Sadly, this might just be a fad. As good as Doom is, it did NOT sell COD numbers.
>>339397153
>I doubt most Serious Sam "fans" even bothered finishing the game without quicksave abuse
You don't even know what SS fans actually did yet trying to make such assumptions? Wow, you're just an autistic dumbass, m8.
>>339396829
>figuring out the correct sequence to do areas in
This is shit game design. This kind of trial and error is never acceptable gameplay.
>dashing past monsters for power ups, finding the best places for cover and thinking on your feet when ambushe
These are all things in Serious Sam.
>>339396795
It's called Samsara.
>>339394476
Cool. Just dont make it about her finding her child, husband, father, mother or transfluid transfat otherkin lover.
Make her as stoic as The Doomguy
>>339396829
>circle strafe
The first sign of a shitposting fag.
>>339396829
Every fucking FPS game requires you to think on your feet and look for tactically advantegous spots it's hardly Doom exclusive.
>>339396620
Blood or Hexen should be the new ones they tackle next.
Between ID and Machine Games, we have a crackteam of a duo.
>>339396473
Problem with a lot of Doom areas is you can just run past them or back out of them, and once the players done that it can throw off the rest of the level. Arenas prevent that. They turn a level into discrete encounters, which can then be worked on individually.
>>339397542
>This is shit game design. This kind of trial and error is never acceptable gameplay.
Strategy and options are shit game design? No wonder FPS turned into straight lines. Christ you faggots have bad tastes.
>>339397530
no, they are just slowly getting bored so marketing strategy can focus on that.
we are entering an age with actual variety instead of a cod/bf or early access indie multiplayer shooter.
>>339397964
Its only strategy if you're given the necessary information upfront and then choose. Options are fine, as long as they have a clear meaning, otherwise you're just picking a random path. Games like Thief and Deus Ex are good about that, Doom is not.
>>339397828
multiplayer games yes. Unless the game has some horribly broken shit or koream p2w
singleplayer? nah. cod clones offer only one play style: snap your crosshair faster onto their heads.
>>339388874
My life literally needs Paladin in Hell: the game to be complete
>Doom remake, except medieval fantasy, with a good melee combat system
>That gore
>Level design
>Twisted, hellish landscapes mixed with gothic cathedrals
>And you're the only pure little bright pally
>Use a collection of weapons - lances, poleaxes, swords, shields, hammers, crossbows, pistols and arquebus
>wield Paladin holy magic to CLEAVE AND SMITE
Call me when they start doing oldschool map design too, without any RPG features and cinematics.
Medkits and unlimited weapon space alone do not make "oldschool shooter".
>>339389620
both are tedious crap.
>>339397963
Running past them is a valid strategy and can be a good element in level design, such as having power ups placed near monsters that the player sees and dashes for. Running backwards is only a problem if you set up arena-like encounters, in which case you can easily prevent the player from running back or make them not want to. That kind of locked room encounter design is not only mind numbingly repetitive but also lacks the depth actual levels offer.
>>339396261
Do you even realize that "level design" is not something that belongs only to Doom and in no way should follow the doomey rules? It's different in any game, and it must and it is unique and specifed its own way for each game. You can't say that Serious Sam or any other game has no level design if it's not like your beloved Doom.
>>339398209
>take nudoom
>apply dark messiah melee combat
it'll never exist, anon
why live
>>339398498
TES VI, pre order it
>>339397963
This. Arena shooters are basically the purest epitome of FPS games because you HAVE to shoot motherfuckers yet you have enough space and freedom to stay alive. When fags say that Doom is about levels and managing and exploration and not about shooting stuff, that shows how casual it is. In this light Doom looks nothing like a FPS game, but corridors/mazes management game.
>>339397530
It's the opposite, the reason everyone is complaining and disliking the new COD trailer is apparently because they don't want all these newer innovations in the game like space combat and instead just want COD4 again, people are as dumb as ever.
>>339398668
>TES
>gameplay
shoo manlet of lies
>>339398498
I didn't like Dark Messiah so much. The melee combat felt inconsistent, except for the kicks.
>>339398497
Only without so many ranged weapons.
>>339396620
> Blood remade by Machinegames
my body is ready
>>339398209
Sounds like 3D Diablo which wouldn't be that interesting.
>>339389520
She got nothing to lose but her chains
>>339398742
do it or I will bankrupct id and arkane
>>339398306
>mind numbingly repetitive
Only true if you make the arenas mind numbingly repetitive. The entire point of this is that now you've isolated your section of the level, you now have a huge number of options to make the arena interesting, like giving players interesting traversal options, or allowing the AI to interact with the level in interesting ways. In that, there can be far more depth in a well designed arena than an entire level.
>>339396620
What's the best way to play Blood?
Are there source ports like DOOM?
>>339394114
>want to rip and tear and fight demons
>takes forever in between each fight because of maze levels that just have small pockets of enemies that are split up from each other
That sounds boring as fuck in modern day.
I'm just happy more normal shooters are returning.
Overwatch and similar games piss me off for several reasons
>ridiculous time to kill
>no customization of weapons or loadouts
>abilities
>>339398851
do you imply dark messiah, dark souls, gothic, ultima underworld, severance, the witcher, shadow of mordor... 3d diablo as well?
>>339393735
developer control of player interactions is the worst thing about contemporary game design
nobody wants to play an FPS as a series of puzzle rooms
>>339399147
>>ridiculous time to kill
In what way, it can be both fast and slow, which most arena shooter also do
>loadouts
>>339399023
>Blood
>source ports
blame Atari for not releasing the source code.
There's BloodCM, which is not complete yet but it works well.
>>339399176
Dark Messiah, Gothic, The Witcher and Shadow of Mordor have fuck all to do with Diablo theme wise you dumb retard is every single game with swords Diablo to you?
>>339394476
Happiness, because I've been playing just that for almost five years.
>>339398994
>In that, there can be far more depth in a well designed arena than an entire level.
Only if you compare a well made arena to a poorly made level. Traditional level design not only allows for every single thing you listed but also far more. There's nothing limiting it at all, unlike arenas, which is why it's superior.
>>339398209
>paladin
Who would want to play gay simulator?
>>339398306
The thing is that in arena-based games you can run the same fucking way. That "kind of locked room encounter design" you mention is simply a forced meme made by those who didn't play any SS or similar kind of game, or simply didn't pay much attention to its structure and levels and battles. So when you say
>having power ups placed near monsters that the player sees and dashes for
it sounds silly because you can do the same thing in SS. Yes, there are locked rooms sequences, but there are also a lot of big open areas like Valley of the Jaguar where you are free to go anywhere you want and pick up ammo and power ups managing through waves of monsters and shoot stuff at the same time.
>>339399397
they sound like diablo according to this anon here >>339398851
>>339399389
>>339399023
Also the Doom 64/Powerslave/Turok EX guy is making a port
I wish I would get my financial aid for college so I could buy this game. I don't even want to pirate it because I feel this is the direction gaming should be heading back into. I miss my timesplitters, ratchet and clanks... heck, even the ww2 shooters would be a breathe of fresh air now.
>>339388874
Wolfenstein was fucking shit
>>339388874
If it means we might get a new Hexen, then I'm all for the new age of old FPS.
>>339396782
I fucking wish, but can you imagine the outrage?
>WHAT THE FUCK HE JUST TIPPED A SEX WORKER RAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAPE
>>339388874
We're on the cusp of one I think. Console plebs are still obsessed with dooty and bf, despite how shitty those games are. AAA killed the FPS genre, but as always, PC gaming has been quietly curating a solid base of traditional and more hardcore FPS gamers.
The key to seeing that renaissance you speak of is to see an indie studio, or at least a PC centric company have the next big FPS success. As long as consoles players and AAA studios control the money and market share in FPS games you won't see a push for movement and accuracy rewarding titles.
Interestingly enough, for as casual as Overwatch is, I think we all need to give it a little credit for pushing the boundaries of accepts FPS standards. Each character has a play style that is somewhat reminiscent to every FPS genre style of play. It's definitely not the FPS game I want to see act as the standard for the genre, but it's nice to see someone take a risk.
>>339399330
I'm talking about control in the exact same way Doom controlled you. Subtly and through level design.
>>339397108
>They make a new game in fucking EDuke32's sourceport
I WOULD FUCKING CUM RAINBOWS
and yet the tribes series is beyond dead
>>339399541
Serious Sam is by far the most well designed out of the recent wave of arena shooters, though. I think the likes of Shadow Warrior 2013 and Painkiller are what people complain about, not SS.
175 replies and no one mention to Blackroom? What if it's actually good?
>>339399852
We'll talk about it when there's gameplay footage.
>>339394501
plebs just cant into arena fps anon, and they shit on anything that they cant understand
>>339399430
The entire point is that between an equally well designed arena and level, the arena will be better to play because of the constraints I listed. Also, your traditional level generally achieves those things by using arenas, so it doesn't really help your case.
And yet, Halo 5 is better than any of those.
>>339391880
To all the people bitching at this guy saying arena design is better than corridors.
Why even have levels then?
>>339400079
anon you dont have to try this had to justify that xbone of yours
>>339399852
Waiting for the demo.
>>339399852
We'll talk about it when we get that demo.
>>339388874
>Are we in an FPS renaissance?
No.
Can I play this on PS4 with M+KB, I don't want to support denuvo.
>>339399813
Well, in this case I agree, pal. But people always tend to shit on SS just because this wave of SS clones that followed with all those Nitro Family, Painkiller, Will Rock and other games. This is some bullshit.
>>339399617
Your mother was fucking shit last night.
>>339395675
Pre-Alpha means the game isn't even fucking playable.
Alpha means assets are still being created
Beta means pretty much everything is made, and just needs finishing up and cleaned up.
>>339400181
Pacing.
Also its not that the game shouldn't have corridors, just that arenas should be the focus of combat encounters.
>>339400057
The entire point is that arenas are a tiny part of traditional level design that can be used as the developers see fit. If they want a restrictive encounter, there's nothing stopping them from making one. They can limit the player's movement in any way they see fit, and they can choose to design encounters in isolation or combined with the rest of the level. A level that's focused on arena combat will always be inferior because it limits itself for no reason. Also a well designed level will always be much better than a well designed arena. Good levels also get better the more you play them because you start learning things like shortcuts, secret location, all sorts of neat tricks you can use while arenas just get more and more boring the more you witness them because there's no overarching strategy going on outside of the fights you've seen a million times.
>Croteam cancelled Serious Sam 4 and is now making Serious Sam 5
http://www.croteam.com/serious-sam-4-cancelled/
>>339400198
*hard
>>339400369
your mother is a rat cunt, like you
>>339395278
The other one did.
>>339399813
Wich was the general opinion about the Shadow Warrior reboot?
>>339388874
>>Doom, despite early previews and impressions, ended up a viable and worthy successor to the fast-paced Doom 1 & 2
spot the shill
>>339388874
yeah, CASUAL FPS renaissance for shitters like yourself OP
>overwatch
>literally not babby's first FPS with wallhacks, 6v6, and 20 tick
lmaaaaaao
>>339400439
>Serious Sam 5 will continue where never-released-and-prematurely-ended Serious Sam 4 left off, and it will showcase the power of new and improved Serious Engine 5, which can now render billions of square feet of sand with no noticeable dropout in frames per second.
This is the best April Fool's ever
>>339392832
>/pol/.wad
>canon
I wish, that shit was hilarious
>>339400414
>it limits itself for no reason
I've already given you the reasons. Arenas have a better potential to be good, so it makes sense to use that potential. Obviously you need space in between arenas for pacing and teaching players, and you can include more traditional encounters if you wish, but they don't add much.
Also, pretending full levels encourage more replayability is pure bullshit, a well designed arena after all should just be a more densely designed level, put in a place where it matters more. Things like shortcuts or alternate routes in a full level are just distractions from the core gameplay, while in an arena they are additions.
>>339396782
>Gearbox
No, anon, he's dead. He's dead and buried and never coming back.
>>339392129
You mean Unreal 3 right?
>>339397437
This
>>339400941
>Things like shortcuts or alternate routes in a full level are just distractions from the core gameplay
Jesus nigga, you're too far gone. They ARE the core gameplay because the gameplay consists of more than just shooting in any decent FPS. That's half of it. Also arenas don't have a better potential to be good, they're just easier to make for lazy designers who cannot skillfully manipulate the player and take different actions into consideration so instead have to rely on blocking the player's path in the most obvious and predictable way. Well designed levels have far more replayability because they give you options, have variety outside of combat and encourage overarching planning that extends beyond monster encounters.
>>339399617
Youre shit
>>339400439
Based Croteam.
>>339399653
YES. FUCK YES.
GIVE ME MORE OCCULT GOODNESS.
>>339401561
>the gameplay consists of more than just shooting in any decent FPS
Nope, its a shooter, the point is shooting. If your game doesn't have good shooting, its a bad shooter. If what you want is fun exploration, go play Thief. Also, stop deluding yourself thinking Doom is about planning. It fucking isn't. Levels are design to flow without too much thought, and they just get easy if you come back and try to optimize your run excessively.
>they're just easier to make
Speaking of obvious things people miss, why is it no one connects that things that are easier to do are also easier to do really well? Its always about laziness with you people, not about getting the most out of developers. Arenas are easier to design, and thus easier to do really well, meaning for an equal amount of work, you get a better game.
>>339401224
Well first they have to make unreal 2
>>339402250
>why is it no one connects that things that are easier to do are also easier to do really well?
It's easier to do because there's less to fuck up, not because it's easier to do well. I can't really fuck up playing a kazoo like I can a violin.
>>339399418
>tfw modern gamers don't like fit girls
>they'd probably make her fat
>>339401856
I want to play the Ainsley shooter.
>>339389520
Period
>>339394389
I don't think so.
>>339397530
>>339388874
>the fast-paced FPS like Halo and COD
Neither of you have clearly played a halo game. Halo games play way more like UT then it does CoD by a huge margin.
It's not a twitch/military style fps like CoD/BF etc is, it's more in line with arena shooters.
>>339402416
modern gamers dont like fats. They like the female version of generic white male protag
>>339402607
That says nothing about the game's setting ''largest maps'' might as well mean big city map and not the ancient one like Metropolis from FE.
>>339390306
Dear god give us a proper sequel.
>>339388874
The armour is supposed to be ripped, not armour bikini. FFS.
>>339389543
I love Heretic and Raven, but that art is really bad.
>>339402416
They'd probably color her hair pink and try to make her 'thicc'. Or smear dirt and grime all over her to show that she can be just as 'hardcore' as any of the silly boyz.
>>339402739
Like this.
>>339402785
Croteam's trademark is ancient civilisations and ruins. BFE had there elements in giant numbers. They also kleerly said that SS4 won't be based in Egypt and there will be several different environments. They also said that SS4 will be closer to the best game of the franchise according to fans - The Second Encounter. And there are also clear hints to it having medieval french castles and ancient Rome ruins. So please, stop bitching.
>>339402397
That's a shit analogy though, given how complex an arena can be.
I think you may be exclusively thinking of this in terms of the original Doom, which is an obscenely simple, essentially 2D, game. Compare that with the new Doom, which adds methods of 3D traversal for both you and enemies. Just like that, the complexity possible in an arena increases immensely, beyond anything imaginable in the original Doom.
Basically, the reason the original supposedly needed all the design mechanics you describe is because it was too simple a game to carry itself on its gameplay alone.
>>339402654
>Neither of you have clearly played a halo game. Halo games play way more like UT then it does CoD by a huge margin.
You clearly haven't played a UT game.
Remember when all of UT was in a low-gravity chamber where everything was floaty as fuck? Me neither.
>>339390306
Rewind when?
Since at least some of you are talking about level design, what is the best custom singleplayer FPS level you've ever played?
This would be mine
>lots of verticality
>dodging enemies and their projectiles while avoiding falling off the map emphasizes not only skill in shooting but also skill in movement and spatial awareness
>non-linear design, numerous secrets that are not merely side routes with items but can also put you in a more advantageous position against enemies or take you to later parts of the level earlier
>patrolling enemies make encounters dynamic, each playthrough can be strikingly different based on your speed and the routes you take
>as you go progress the level, repopulation of enemies in the earlier parts and the convergence of flying patrolling enemies can push the player into bigger encounters that can make use of the entire level, testing the player's skill in navigating architecture that he should now be familiar with
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HqXbQIqc3Fo
>>339403453
This look like a pain to navigate. Would be cool in JA/JO, where you have force jump and can force push enemies to their deaths.
What's the objectively best FPS on Steam?
>>339402250
>If what you want is fun exploration, go play Thief
Or any old school FPS before it got ruined by people like you who did not understand it. Also Doom levels are about planning, it's just not obvious because they were designed with pistol start in mind. You have to play them like that.
>why is it no one connects that things that are easier to do are also easier to do really well?
The bar for "really well" is set very low if you're going with arenas because of their nature so it doesn't really matter much if they're done well. Not that they're done well usually either, as the games utilizing arenas excessively aren't particularly good at it
>Lets put more corridors in DOOM
>Siege-mode gauss rifle every single corridor to kill everything in it.
>>339403610
Well, Doom 2 is on Steam...
>>339403453
>Since at least some of you are talking about level design, what is the best custom singleplayer FPS level you've ever played?
I don't have a picture of it. But there was a streets level in Jedi Knight 2 that was exactly this, but combined loads of little buildings and Acloves you could just walk right in.
It went from city streets that were in the sky to indoor shooty arenas by just walking through a door. I still remember that as one of the most fun levels ever in a FPS for me.
>>339390750
FPS contra with xeno morph rip offs and modern weapons (plus some alien tech) could work fine.
>>339388874
The only thing D44M was missing was more fighting that didn't take place in arenas. It would've been nice to have legitimate opposition between you and the next arena fight section rather than just a few enemies every now and then.
>>339403610
Duke Nukem Megaton Edition
-Is what I would say if you could still get it.
But besides Megaton Edition, there's also Serious Sam Second Encounter and Doom 2. It's just with Doom 2 you need to get a sourceport to really enjoy it.
Also: Unreal Tournament and Deus Ex
>>339388874
>worthy successor to the fast-paced Doom 1 & 2
naw. its a good game but its nothing like doom 1 or 2, not even close.
>>339403302
>closer to the best game of the franchise according to fans - The Second Encounter
Well shit.
I've been replaying The Second EncounterHDand I had a way better time with The First Encounter. There's just so many cheap and unfair moments in this one
>spawn an arachnoid/reptiloid behind a tree so you can't see it
>spawn an arachnoid out in the open which immediately attacks you
>absolutely terrible battles like "Dangerous Forces"
>kleers sometimes move in a zig-zag maneuver which totally fucks you over
I mean the new weapons are great and I like that there's variety in the themes, but overall I just enjoyed The First Encounter better.
>>339388874
Maybe but Serious Sam 3 was horrible. The only other neo classic I can think of that was horrible was ROTT. Even Shadow Warrior was pretty good and the next one looks even better.
>>339403954
>but its nothing like doom 1 or 2
How so
>>339403610
Quake
>>339397437
This
>>339403667
You seem to be under some misunderstandings here about what planning should be. Thief is about planning. It gives you an ability to survey your environment and understand the consequences of paths you take. Doom as you describe it is about trial and error. That's not good design. A well designed level should always be beatable first try if a player is good enough at your mechanics. This isn't true of Doom pistol starts.
>>339392610
Ugh. Unreal is so fucking boring, always was. Well, UT was pretty good for its time, but all the others were meh. Quake was always miles and miles ahead of Unreal.
>>339404017
Don't worry, I enjoyed SE more as well.
>>339404024
SW 2013 was a godawful FPS and an average slasher with amazing aesthetic. I've had a share of problems with BFE but it's not even close.
>>339404024
>Serious Sam 3 was horrible
>Shadow Warrior was pretty good
This has to be bait.
Shadow Warrior isn't even an FPS, the guns in that are borderline useless.
>>339398498
hellraid
too bad I heard it's cancelled
there is still a steam store page tho
>>339404321
>Don't worry, I enjoyed SE more as well.
You mean FE?
>>339394501
It's just being realistic anon. It's not being bitter to say an unpopular genre isn't gonna make a huge comeback. Stop being mad because most people here have enough sense to keep expectations low for this hobby.
>>339404017
>There's just so many cheap and unfair moments in this one
Therein lies the problem. The Second Encounter was made for people who beat The First Encounter and wanted a bigger challenge. So a lot of the arenas are ways to screw over players who were expected a TFE fight.
>>339404387
Not really. PDWs, crossbow and shotgun were GOAT.
>>339388874
I was going to happen eventually. The people who played Halo and CoD are growing up and seeing what the majority of others saw and why we complained about it.
The problem is it will happen again. CoD isn't going anywhere soon, a new generation of faggots are being born who want an easy "rewarding" experience.
The second a new franchise becomes popular all FPSs will turn to that one popular thing again.
I wouldn't call it a renaissance, I'd call it a return to some sort of glory. But like I said, it will happen again.
