I never got Ninja Gaiden Black, is Sigma worth buying and playing to get the experience?
>>339379760
Yes absolutely senpai. It's up there with DMC3
>>339379760
Not as good but still good 8/10 opposed to perfection
Sigma is garbage.
Black or bust.
>>339379760
If you've already got a PS3 and simply can't be asked to get a 360 or original Xbox for NGB, it'll do. NGB is the superior version though.
Don't play the Vita version. Just...don't.
Black is the version I played because it happened to be the one that was at the stores when I wanted to get Ninja Gaiden.
I haven't played any other version. Neither the original nor Sigma.
What doesn't the other games have that Black does that makes them not as good?
>>339379760
It's pretty much the same game except with more content and a couple more item shops. I still don't get this meme that it's "shit compared to black".
Every time I've asked about what makes Black superior and what the major differences are, no one ever replies.
Now Sigma 2 on the other hand, definitely has some major changes and it can be better or worse depending on personal taste (I prefer Itagaki's version).
>>339379760
Sigma is literally black with toned down blood.
Black was the patch to the original that made the game easier.
>>339380836
I thought black was the harder one?
They both have things going for them. Black is less forgiving. Sigma has more content and runs better. If you have a 360 note that removing the HDD deletes NGB save data and you cannot copy it to make backups. You must leave the HDD in.
The changes are more significant with 2. Once again 2 is less forgiving than sigma 2. Sigma 2 however has more content and harder boss battles at the cost of removing enemies in many parts of the game. Take that for what you will.
If you can play them all and see the differences yourself. The xbox versions are harder though, this is objective. Dont turn this into console wars, both versions are great but any idort who has played them all knows this. The boss battle buff in sigma 2 doesn't counter the amount of enemy encounters that get watered down or simply don't happen.
Also note that the guy who made these games Itagaki himself refused to work on sigma and dismissed it as not a proper Ninja Gaiden game.
>>339380836
How did Black tone down the difficulty? The bosses and enemies in vanilla Ninja Gaiden can be cheesed to death with flying swallow, Black toned it down significantly. The bosses in Black also got minions, plus it added a couple of extra bosses. Black also added Master Ninja difficulty which wasn't in vanilla.
>>339380434
>>339380576
Sigma has fucking terrible loading times. Like, not just between missions, but during actual gameplay. It's awful. And it's difficult to explain, but Sigma has stiffer controls. I guess you could argue that it's harder in that sense, but I wouldn't say it's in a good or interesting way.
On Sigma I struggled with Alma and I couldn't figure out what I was doing wrong. Then I picked up Black and the input actually worked the way I expected and beat her on the first attempt.
There's also other 'harder' things they added, like those irritating shitty motorcycle ninjas. The took out the immunity to Flying Swallow for certain enemies though, so that made it easier in that sense.
>>339380836
>Black was the patch to the original that made the game easier.
That's quite a fucking overt lie. Why would anyone believe you, even?
>>339380929
Sorry i had to google it.
Black did indeed have the harder difficulty mode.
But the default mode still contained all enemy nerfs and weapon buffs.
>>339381070
>Sigma runs better
Sigma and Sigma Plus are the only versions I've seen with in-game loading screens. Sigma does many things, but it doesn't run better than Black.
>>339380836
Not true. Black was an expansion pack with more enemies, weapons and costumes in addition to mission mode. It also included the ninja dog mode if you were scrub enough to unlock it but the base game didn't change or get nerfed at all. One could argue the addition of enemies made it harder. Also they added master ninja mode in so the game does offer more a challenge difficulty settings wise
>>339381070
How is Black harder outside of a couple of extra item shops? I'm not doubting what you're saying, but I've never found a satisfying explanation for this. I've played both games too and can barely tell what the difference in difficulty is.
Are there any videos out there that compare the combat difficulty between Black and Sigma 1?
This is the one game that needs a PC port the most.
Either SIgma or Black, I dont care.
For the love of god don't play Sigma. It's an abomination.
Buy a used Xbox or used 360, if used Xbox, don't forget to replace the time capacitor if it wasn't replaced already.
As someone that has completed every Ninja Gaiden game to completion (yes, the NES, DS and even Yaiba). The only ones worth playing from the reboot are Black and II (360).
>>339381752
>abomination
fag
its the same fucking game.
>>339379760
>I never got Ninja Gaiden Black
SHIT NIGGA WHAT ARE YOU DOING?!
GET THAT SHIT NOW
>>339381679
It's a mixed bag, it's generally just specific areas where they tweaked things. Try the zombie archers platforming section before the Dragon Skeleton boss, and you'll see a distinct difference.
In Black:
>Immune to normal shurikens and Flying Swallow
>You can't replenish any of your expendables because no shop
>Respawn every time you fall down
Sigma:
>Muramasa statue at the bottom so you can buy more projectiles if you run out
>Can be killed with Flying Swallow or Windmill Shuriken, which trivialises them
And I think they don't even respawn.
>>339381679
black has more enemies in each area.
Its not as huge of a difference as the one between 2 and Sigma 2 but it still is noticeable.
>>339382052
>>339382074
Well it's been a long time since I've played Black, so I'll take your word on it. Thanks for actually trying to answer instead of just resorting to the "Sigma is shit" meme like most people usually do.
>>339381679
To start with you don't have to use essence to charge up ultimate technique in Sigma. Also they removed the health draining aspect of the kotetsu so you don't have to use the tranquility bracelet with it but can buff attacks even further.
If play Sigma, you have to deal with the DS3, but if you're even considering it that probably doesn't bother you.
okay so here's my question then, i have an old dusty xbox with almost broken controllers and who knows how much life left in it, and a ps3, should i hunt high and low for a copy of black or pick up a copy of sigma for like $7? is the difference that much worth it?
>>339382541
>hunt high and low
Ebay. Get black.
>>339382375
>To start with you don't have to use essence to charge up ultimate technique in Sigma
Wait, you don't have to use essence in Sigma to charge UT? Holy shit, I've been playing it totally wrong then. Okay, looks like you guys are right then, those are definitely some major changes.
>>339382541
blacked
>>339382664
Sigma also removed NG+.
>>339382541
I don' think you can really go wrong either way. Team Ninja's Ninja Gaiden is still one of the finest action games ever made. If there was one game I wish I could wipe from my memory and experience for the first time again, it would probably be that one.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IlpKf1amlPs
I have both - Sigma and Black are both good in their own ways.
Don't listen to anons saying that Blood is toned down, they're talking out of their ass. That's Sigma 2 that does that.
>>339383341
No one claims the blood is toned down in sigma. No one has even said that in this thread. There are significant changes however. Maybe try reading the thread.
>>339382541
Honestly? Depends if you still have original Xbox games you still cherish, or feel like getting any others. If you do, get Black and a less broken Xbox + controllers, I really doubt they'll be much more expensive than getting Sigma these days. If you don't, I guess Sigma is okay. It's not that different to Black, but I honestly think it's the inferior version, for admittedly very minor reasons.
>>339383031
Black removed NG+, IIRC. It added the extra difficulties which the original didn't have, but removed NG+ at the same time for some bizarre reason.
And they never put it back in, not even in Sigma or Sigma Plus. God knows why.
>>339381735
NEVER
EVER
I'm pretty sure these Ninja Gaiden threads are always made by the same faggot who hates Sigma with a passion
>Itagaki will never make another good game again.
I mean I didn't even hate Devils Third that much, I know it went through development hell and it was a miracle that it even came out at all. But I'm sure the bad sales and poor reviews have probably deterred him from wanting to make anything else.
I just don't think Hayashi gets Ninja Gaiden and their attempt at fixing 3 (Razor's Edge) was still inferior to Itagaki's games in pretty much every way.
I'm glad they decided to make Nioh instead of Ninja Gaiden 4, since going by the alpha they released, that game actually looks like it could be pretty good (then again, it seems like casuals may end up ruining it for everyone with their whining).
>>339379859
>It's up there with DMC3
Great joke. DMC3 is a legitimately bad game when compared to Ninja Gaiden.
>>339379760
sigma is okay, but sigma 2 is garbage
black is better, and you can get a 360 for cheap and buy it as a download for $10
>>339384312
DMC3 is too casual for me.
NGB killed every character action game for me. It's that good.
Sigma is fine.
>>339384312
Retards will accuse you of bait, but I fully agree. NGB/NGS/NG2/NGS2 is really on a whole other level way above DMC
>>339384232
He will come back from his failure, stronger than ever. I believe.
>>339384312
>>339384543
Also agree, out of the "big three" for me it will always go
Ninja Gaiden Black>>>>God Hand>>>>>>>>DMC 3
>>339384232
Let's be honest, Devil's Third probably should've been abandoned a while ago. Itagaki's position is probably worse for it coming out at this point.
>>339384312
Don't be mean, they're very different games.
>>339384232
I wouldn't say it's too far removed from Uncharted 2, only with the emphasis shifted from climbing and jocularity to melee combat, and bosses.
Also RE had the crystal skulls which I liked, but that's more or less it, SOB is decent as a counter, but I understand why people don't like it.
>>339384861
god of war really is an abomination of a series
>>339384401
>sigma 2 is garbage
Simply epic friend!
>better and more aggressive enemy and boss AI
>fixed many of the loops and cheeses for boss battles (only exception being Volf is easily looped)
>less popcorn enemies and enemies are fewer in number but more hardy
>balanced the retarded shuriken spam
>added three girl chapters with full and unique movesets, which are a great change of pace from playing as Ryu and totally change the tactics and way you play
>added additional bosses and weapons
>balanced retarded bosses like the armadillo and the black dragon
>removed the edgy gore and focused on smoother combat and better framerate
You're a fucking idiot kid.
>>339384771
I'm so glad I saved on a different file as I used up all my health potions, and couldn't beatMuraieventually I had to re-do the Emperor bullshit
>>339384861
Same thing applies to any game when you play on easy.
People are hyperbolic retards.
Sigma is fine, it's just not the best version. Cool twin katana though.
>>339384795
God Hand is a meme game.
>>339384861
>implying you couldnt beat NG on lower difficulties by spamming Flying Swallow
Not that I'm saying GoW is a deeper game, but this is a shit meme.
>>339384771
Oh hey, I was looking for that comic, thanks. Let's hope so, the industry needs more people like him. Most game developers are so bland and inoffensive these days. I miss all his shit talking about Tekken.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hvq8IxhDJoc
>>339384861
Christ. I picked up Razor's Edge the other day and it astonished me. Not because it's good, it's still pretty mediocre compared to NGB and NGII. It's because it's still leagues ahead of shit like GoW and it's innumerable clones.
Why is the worst series the one that gets copied the most? I get that shit like NG, DMC, Bayonetta, etc. actually require time and effort, but come the fuck on. If you're going to make a game like that anyway, you might as well go all out.
>>339379760
Sigma is shit, but you'd have to be a retard or an hardcore ng fan to not play it or actually going through the hassle of getting black and a console to run it. It's not like they can change that much in a new release of the same game.
>>339379760
Im not even going to read the other responses to this thread since most of the time they are retarded regarding this subject.
Yes Sigma is very much worth playing if you cant get a hold of black as its still an amazing game. Sigma is just considered inferior for a couple of reasons since it basically adds more flaws to an otherwise near perfect game.
Added in rachel gameplay segments to the campaign but she plays like fucking garbage, and they replaced 10 missions with rachel missions.
Game is overall easier than black, still harder than most games
They shortened an already short water level [basically turning 15-20 minutes at most into 5 or 10]
Added more areas, though Id argue that these areas feel more like fluff than anything substantial
More boss fights, probably the only strict improvement Id give it
No Arcade ninja gaiden and I believe its missing the hotsuma costume and his DoA3 look
Arbritraily removed the puzzle segments which I liked
Longer load times
Different scarab locations
Added the dual katana weapons which most people like. Kitetsu no longer drains your life and the armlet of tranwuility is gone, stage one UT now requires burning essence. And I think there was some shit about sixaxis buffing ninpo but who gives a fuck
More save points for some reason
Arguably worse camera but that could just be me
Basically sigma adds more content, thought that content isnt necessarily good, but its still an excellent game in spite of that.
Black>2=Sigma>>>>>>>Sigma2>>>>>>>3RE>>>shit>3
>people are saying sigma is fine
when did this board become so casual?
>>339385063
>Actually prefering the retarded purple smoke and calling gore "edgy" in a game were dismemberment is a core mechanic.
I hope you're fucking baiting.
>>339384861
The biggest thing about an action game is movement and dodging. You don't need ridiculous combos like DMC where you cycle through the same combos like an autist to have a good action game. An action game should be dynamic and about avoiding enemies with proper timing and using the right weapons and moves against enemies at the right time.
God of War on Titan difficulty is not overly extremely hard or anything, but it's not like MNM is either. And I'm sure GoW could just as easily add an additional difficulty mode where enemies kill you as fast as they do in MNM and it would be just as difficult as any NG game
>>339385569
>I play the deepest and most robust action game of all time for le ebin gore!! xDD
>>339385512
Both Sigma games are harder on MNM compared to the vanilla games, but are easier on lower difficulties than the vanilla games.
>>339385581
>The biggest thing about an action game is movement and dodging. You don't need ridiculous combos like DMC where you cycle through the same combos like an autist to have a good action game.
Tell that to the majority of idiots that regard shit like DMC3 as the pinnacle of the genre.
>>339385063
I guess you have some points, but some of those just don't fly, man.
>better and more aggressive enemy and boss AI
Mentor and MN were about the same, IIRC. Acolyte and Warrior you could pretty much snooze through. I think I had several hundred thousand essence by the end of each playthrough because I literally had nothing to spend it on.
>less popcorn enemies and enemies are fewer in number but more hardy
Damage sponges don't make much difference when you can stunlock them to death with basic combos from any weapon. At least NGII enemies could fight back properly.
>added additional bosses and weapons
Three identical statue bosses with generic movesets and some okay weapons that didn't really add anything worthwhile to your arseal. The great sword was okay, I guess.
>removed the edgy gore and focused on smoother combat and better framerate
I mostly remember the Sigma framerate being worse, somehow. Or at least it dropped more frequently.
>>339385761
>Both Sigma games are harder on MNM compared to the vanilla games, but are easier on lower difficulties than the vanilla games.
Nah, it's comparable on Sigma, but Sigma 2 is vastly different with lesser enemies and lesser spam, sure the enemies have more health but managing them is FAR easier than vanilla 2.
Sigma 2 was just far too easy on MNM.
>>339385219
>implying you couldnt beat NG on lower difficulties by spamming Flying Swallow
Original NG, sure. NGB specifically made it so you couldn't do that, about half or more enemies will straight up block or counter it.
So which one should I get for my vita?
>>339385903
Mentor feels like playing on very easy after you beat MNM, but I'd say that's a good thing as it's a very nice learning curve. You don't really even feel like you've got so much better at the game, but mentor which used to be tough is like autopilot
Also eurogamer did a framerate comparison and Sigma 2 had consistently higher framerate
>>339386072
This
And
>>339381070
This
I played the Vita version, it was ok, didnt get the hype
>>339386223
Sigma Plus, if possible Hong Kong version since it has JP audio with ENG subtitles.
Sigma 2 Plus is dogshit on vita, so avoid that one.
>>339386235
>Also eurogamer did a framerate comparison and Sigma 2 had consistently higher framerate
Huh. I guess my memory just sucks. Or my PS3 is dying. Probably the latter.
>>339386223
Sigma 1. Just know that the framerate is worse and the touch controls are gimmicky as fuck.
>>339385460
I forgot to mention that sigma added weapon switching via dpad like NG2, and I think they changed some of the bow mechanics.
>>339386223
There's only one type for each, Sigma Plus and Sigma 2 Plus.
Be warned, Sigma Plus' bow controls are some of the worst projectile controls in handheld history. It makes a certain part of the game an utter nightmare.
>>339386072
You must have played NG2 first, because they are about equal in difficulty with NGS2 getting the slight edge due to the girl chapters (which are honestly the two hardest in the game on MNM lol), insta-kill grabs, and more difficult bosses. NG2 does have more enemies (albeit weaker) and shuriken spam though along with the ridiculous bullshit double volcano armadillo boss. Still think it's a tad easier but really it's personal preference, just like most people say the hardest Souls game is the one they started with. Once you get NG learning curve down though, none of them are over the top hard even on MNM.
Also not sure why people say NG2 enemies are harder to handle when NGS2 actually has more aggressive enemy AI both in enemies and bosses.
>>339386596
>sigma added weapon switching via dpad like NG2
It didn't.
The Sigma games are crappier versions of the originals, but I guess it works if you have no alternative.
>>339386708
>Also not sure why people say NG2 enemies are harder to handle when NGS2 actually has more aggressive enemy AI both in enemies and bosses.
I had little trouble stunlocking Sigma 2 enemies with normal combos. Didn't even need UTs. I went back and tried the same tactics on NGII recently and got my shit pushed in almost immediately.
>always defend originals
>always shit on the sigma games
This is the first thread where I wasn't called an Xbot. I don't even like Xbox, but they've got the two best action games of all time.
>>339386708
Problem with NGS2 is that it added for lack of a better term "cheap" enemies
>>339386971
That's because you dont know how to play.
>>339386971
I have hundreds of hours in each one and this simply isn't true.
The Chinese guy who did the no damage run said that 2 is more difficult than Sigma 2.
/argument
>>339386835
It didnt? I could have swore it did, guess my memory is foggy but I still insist that Sigma is good game, Black is just much perferable to it
>>339387114
Well, I beat NGII normally just fine. I was just saying that you can trivialise Sigma 2's combat pretty easily.
>>339387171
Okay then? I'll be sure to keep that in mind next time I do it, I guess.
>>339387074
>double black dragons
>double volcano armadillos
>shuriken spam out the ass
>not cheap
Insta-kill grabs can be annoying but honestly you really shouldn't be getting grabbed.
>>339385460
What about the original Xbox Ninja Gaiden?
>>339387320
I said the game added cjeap elements yes.
>>339387293
Oh, you weren't playing on MNM, that explains it.
I already said NGS2 is easier than NG2 vanilla on difficulties lower than MNM, but NGS2 is a tad more difficult than NG2 when both are on MNM.
MNM is the difficulty at which AI is unrestrained and at full potential.
>>339387450
Those are all elements from NG2 that were rebalanced for NGS2 (although they are still a pain just to a lesser degree)
NG fags will sperg about Black and Sigma differences but at this point just play whatever you can get. The difference is not as hughe as people make it be.
>>339387345
People who never played ther original are probably going to throw a fit but below Sigma 2, its vastly inferior to Black and Intercept makes the game a complete joke along with Flying Swallow. There's also less enemy variety. If you tried to play tge original now youd most likely wouldnt have a high opinion of it.
>>339387517
>I already said NGS2 is easier than NG2 vanilla on difficulties lower than MNM
Oh, I didn't see that part. Sorry. But yeah, I don't think you could stunlock them in NGII on any difficulty, but it was definitely possible in Sigma 2 for at least Acolyte and Warrior. I can't remember for Mentor or MNM, you might be right.
>>339387220
It had item quick use through the d-pad but not quick weapon switching
>>339387731
>Intercept makes the game a complete joke
That wasn't in the base game, mind you, that was a Hurrican Pack addition.
It was a sick move, mind you. Horribly broken, but fun nontheless. I wish they'd found a way to nerf it instead of getting rid of it completely.
>>339384232
Isn't Hayashi not working on Ni-Oh? I heard he was mainly doing DoA stuff or something like that.
>>339388240
Well, he's done a couple of interviews on it. But I'm not sure just how involved he is. It's probably for the best if he isn't a big part of it though.
>>339386596
I think it was using items via the dpad, you can also shoot the bow in midair
>>339381752
"Don't forget to remove the time capacitor." I just looked this up and it scared the shit outta me so bad I was about to do this until I found out that the previous owner was nice enough to do it for me. Feels fucking amazing having a pre-1.6 Xbox. What a relief.
>>339383856
Literally
>>339380836
>>339389407
But NGB actually made it much harder and removed all the cheap exploits that people used to cheese the game
xbox works, ordered NGB and a new controller off ebay. thanks lads
>>339389791
Point I was trying to make was that some aboj said the blood was toned down, another anon said no one had said that ever, not even in the thread, and someone HAD said that.
I love all versions of the game.
>>339381752
Finally, somebody that doesn't have shit taste around here.
>>339381840
No they're not, fuccboi. Sigma 2 in particular had no idea what the fuck it wanted to do, it took a base game without understanding what made it good, and made a mess out of it.
>there will never be another staircase fight
I could just picture Itagaki's shit eating grin while playing.
Black > DS > II > RE
>>339391091
>staircase fight
It's been several years since I played through it, all I remembe is those annoying ghost fish you have to flail through
I can live with Sigma 1's changes, it's still mostly NG Black at heart. Sigma 2 was were Hayashi tried to shove more of his cancerous influence into Oatmeal-san's game. Sigma 1 is fine OP, but play NG 2 instead of Sigma 2 after you're done with Black/Sigma.
>>339384232
>I just don't think Hayashi gets Ninja Gaiden and their attempt at fixing 3 (Razor's Edge) was still inferior to Itagaki's games in pretty much every wa
I feel the same. I don't know about DoA, but Hayashi is a terrible director NG.
>>339384312
They're too different for me, they fulfill different things. DMC is about pulling out special snowflake combos, NG is about surviving the onslaught of shit that is out there to kill you with barely any or no "punching bag" enemies.
>>339384232
NG4 will be good
They fixed 3 in like a year or less and it was still okay considering. Rebuilding a new entry from scratch without COD QTE cinematic normalfag bullshit will definitely result in an even better game.
At least Hayashi admit he was wrong.
>>339385263
>still leagues ahead of shit like GoW and it's innumerable clones.
It still blows my mind that GoW is popular. It only has graphics going for it, that's it. It's shit at absolutely everything else.
>>339392242
I hate to sound like an elitist prick, but GoW is only more popular because of casuals that refuse to invest time in learning how to play a game. It always depresses me when I see GoW above NG, DMC and God Hand in most polls. I guess it really goes to show just how influential marketing and "muh brutal cinematic combat" are to most casualfags.
>>339391091
That fight was boner inducing, even if you could just spam UTs.
>>339388050
Ah ok fair enough
>>339391964
>At least Hayashi admit he was wrong.
I still remember the pants on head retarded interviews he gave for NG3. I wanted to strangle him as I could see him killing my favorite action franchise bit by bit.
>I want to make people feel like they're cutting with a katana
>Despite most probably not knowing how it feels, mysel. I'll assume a shit mechanic will work for it. Lel!
>Kunai climb
>Cinematic, QTEs
>I want players to feel for the enemies they kill
Holy shit I'm still mad.
>>339380189
>. NGB is the superior version though
Can you elaborate?
>>339393634
Well, the thread has kind of touched upon the issue at length, but my key point was in: >>339381430
I suppose Sigma isn't really that different from Black, but I'm not lying when I say Sigma feels different to play. Black just seems more responsive somehow. I think I read somewhere that there were fundamental engine changes, which wouldn't surprise me.
Sigma does have more content and has made some things better, like that awful Zombie Archer section. I just don't like most of the things it changed, really.
What makes II better than Sigma 2?
>>339380189
Why not the vita? Everything I read that was great on it and 2 was the bad port
>>339392963
God of War has a deeper combat system than any of those games, it actually feels very similar to NG just a tiny bit slower with a bit less combos. God of War isn't as good as NG but definitely better than trash like P* games and DMC
>>339394282
The Vita version is basically just like Sigma, with a few more bits of equipment (stat-changing bracelets for Ryu and earrings for Rachel). In terms of core combat, it's perfectly fine.
The problem it has over regular Sigma is the 30fps cap (not a big deal, but still annoying) and the absolutely atrocious bow controls, which are bound unchangably to the Vita's motion sensor. I wish I was kidding. You can shoot by using the touch screen or the circle button, but you HAVE to aim with the fucking motion controls. It's awful. It's, really, really horrid. And it makes the chapters where you have to use the bow (helicopter and tank chapters) almost unplayable.
You have been warned.
>>339394459
Would you care to qualify that statement? In what way is GoW better than DMC or Bayonetta, exactly? How is the combat system deeper?
I'm not even trying to be antogonistic, I'm genuinely curious, because while I didn't hate the GoW games I don't see how the combat is as sophisticated as those games.
>>339392242
To be fair GoW2 was actually good, had the best puzzles and had decent platforming
>>339394150
The main points, I believe:
Can upgrade all of your weapons, giving you more tools to play with, no "special shop" bullshit.
Combat. The whole game and its combat system was built around fast and frantic combat. Sigma 2 scrapped that idea for god knows what reason, and decided to put damage sponges and insta-kill grabs to make up for enemy numbers.
Removed a weapon because of the above. The windmill shuriken would completely destroy the balance by killing the 2 enemies on your screen with one hit, or it would've been nerfed to death and rendered useless. A carbon copy of the Dabilharo was added in its place, at least.
No NG+ to mess around with your weapons and ninpo maxed out. This was an incredibly retarded decision, it gave the game a lot of replayability. Instead, you have Chapter Selection, which is a nice idea, but not enough to make up for the loss of NG+. Unless it was patched to have everything at full power.
There are other minor things not worth mentioning individually, but they add up with the ones I mentioned to make for a lesser game. As a substitute, NGS2 added more content, but the core was left worse than the original.
Overall, NG2 was built as a game where fast and balls to the wall hard combat is the core. Its selling point was that shit was out to get you, and you have to kill them fast and hard. Sigma 2 didn't understand this, and tried to take the core and move it towards a more adventure-like experience, similar to Black, but it didn't translate all that well because the levels and combos weren't created with that in mind.
Sigma 2 is not a bad game, really. But that's because it took a good game as a base, not because of what it added. This is even easier to see with how NG3 and RE ended up, Hayashi is incapable of making an original, good action game. Everything good in his games was already there, or was taken from a predecessor that actually did things right.
I could go into details, but I'll just get called an autist.
>>339395697
And it goes without saying, but plenty of the above resulted in the less enemies approach of S2, completely butchering Chapter 11.
>>339390764
>sigma 2
nobody is talking about that you retard
I have ng2 on the 360 never beat it though. Is it the best version?
>>339395302
Let's not kid ourselves. DMC is shitty autism bait with punching bag enemies in which you just stand in one spot cycling moves while occasionally jumping or dodging, and throwing in a taunt for good measure. It just favors autistic recital of weak combos to fill an arbitrary style meter when that's not the fastest or most efficient way to take out enemies.
Both movement and attacks themselves (both for you and the enemies) are slow and clunky. The movement is awkward and not fluid and is miles below the movement of NG or even something like God of War. The jump is pisspoor and because there's almost zero lateral movement it's just used for iframe spam.
The game also lacks depth (and no, having an arbitrary style meter doesn't change the core mechanics); maybe if every style could be equipped simultaneously it would begin to have some depth, but having to choose between dodge, block/counter, or having more than one attack button? What a fucking joke.
Only having two weapons at once combined with shallow movesets cripples the combat and ruins variety. There are so few moves for each, nothing on the level of NG2's 15+ base attacks (counter, strong, weak, strong hold, weak hold, strong pause, weak pause, forward strong, forward weak, 360 attacks, OT, UT, bow, shruiken, air combos) for each weapon + dodge/block, and this is without even going into the 50+ combos for each weapon. And not to mention NG2's more fluid movement, more strict timing, more smart and adaptive enemy AI (especially bosses), and the weight given to moves by not being able to simply hop right out of them into a full i-frame to apex jump whenever you see an enemy do one of their predictable tells before an attack.
And before you say childish nonarguments like "git gud" yes, I am an avid action game fan and have played them for many years. And yes I am a master at the genre. And yes, of course I have beat the game on DMD; I would never critique a game without mastering it first.
pc port when
i don't want to plug in my 360
also should I finish NG2? I got to the boss after the flying metal centipede thing with a face on it. holy fuck those boss designs were pretty crazy
>>339396610
Which God of War has the best combat? Not just the underlying system, but also weapons and encounters.
>>339396610
Not him, and I understand what you mean about DMC3. But GoW? I have a hard time thinking of GoW as having better combat. I played the first 3 and they are shit tier.
>>339396884
GoW2 is one of the best action games ever. They need to be played at least twice to be fully appreciated.
>>339396610
Welll, okay, that's for DMC, but you didn't mention Bayonetta. Which does actually deal with most of those points, really.
>>339396610
I'll agree with you that DMC is insanely overrated, but come on anon, worse than God of War? Are there some super deep mechanics there that I just didn't see? All of the GoW games I've played have been shit outside of their presentation. What is it that you liked about the combat?
>>339396610
NG is not DMC, and comparing them when their individual focus is different is the height of asinine and dick riding.
The height of skill in DMC is full control of the combat approach and literally being an unstoppable force, such that you can "style" on your enemies. You are there to whup ass and look good doing it.
NG is far more down to earth, each fight a battle against at least equal odds (groups of ninja who have 60% of your skill set) or outrageous odds (Alma, berserkers, Genma, who each have at least your entire skill set on top of more durability, damage output, range).
DMC is about being a god among men, NG about a man against monsters.
>>339396823
It's been years since I've played God of War 1 and 2, but GoW3 is my favorite, although it's a culmination of the entire game rather than simply combat mechanics.
>>339396884
God of War actually feels very similar to Ninja Gaiden. Both have very fluid combat, a decent variety of weapons (NG has more, but less are actually useful), great encounter design, fluid combos and a focus on movement and survival over spamming combos on braindead punching bags. On Titan it's a good challenge, not as hard as MNM, but still pretty close.
>>339397152
Never played Bayonetta. I refuse to play any P* game after playing the overrated trash that was MGRR, Korra, and Transformers Devastation. But Bayonetta looks like a weaker DMC clone as opposed to having gameplay similar to GoW or NG. The fact that the only version with decent performance is on the fucking Wii U doesn't help. No fucking thanks.
>>339397765
What don't you like about MGRR? it's one of my favorite games ever, although i'm new to the character action genre
>>339397914
Not that anon, but it's extremely easy and simple. It is fun though.
Not sure what he's going on about GoW. Unless there's something I didn't see when playing them, he's baiting.
>>339398056
You probably played a shitty one on normal and stopped there.
>>339398056
i agree about it being easy/simple (platinum'd on ps3), but the combination of the visuals/speed make up for it I feel, and after playing a game like that straight into GoW it feels like the slowest most boring thing ever. I hate what little of GoW I've played though.
>>339397765
>But Bayonetta looks like a weaker DMC clone as opposed to having gameplay similar to GoW or NG.
Well, it's not. Like I said, it tackles pretty much all of your points against DMC, and it's a fair bit more sophisticated than Revengeance.
I'd give it a try before shitting all over it, since you consider yourself invested in the genre. And there's nothing wrong with the 360 version. Dunno about the other versions.
>>339398219
>i agree about it being easy/simple (platinum'd on ps3)
So you didn't even play it on the hardest difficulty. Great job.
>>339392242
>>339392963
There are comparisons to be made since God of War is a combat-heavy game, but ultimately it has a different emphasis from Ninja Gaiden. The environments, platforming, and puzzles are all integral--especially in the first two. They're polished action-adventure games that capitalize on a neat setting. I'm not a gigantic fan (I did really enjoy II and Ghost of Sparta though), but if you really don't see the appeal you're just not trying to.
>>339398137
I played 1-3 at the hardest available difficulty, though I think another one was unlocked which I didn't bother with because they bored me.
And look, every other good action game I've played that is good, started out good and finished good. If GoW requires harder difficulties to not be shit, that seems like a very bad issue of the game as a whole.
>>339398219
I agree with you, just saying what he probably meant.
>>339398418
100% S rank on revengeance mode. i don't remember if i ever finished a no damage run but unless theres a higher difficulty then yeah
>>339398554
Ninja Gaiden is only fun on MNM.
I legitimately think that if GoW had a harder difficulty mode (basically just tweaked damage values to be similar to DMD or MNM), that all these elitist morons would consider it a deep and challenging game.
Razor's Edge was pretty great too. Fucking infuriating final boss fight though. Is this series completely dead now that oatmeal face is gone?
>>339398945
>Razor's Edge was pretty great too.
Don't post retarded shit like this. Someone might actually believe it.
>>339398829
Well, not really. It'd still be a QTE-addled mess with incredibly mediocre bossfights.
It's the same reason no one cares much for NG3.
>>339398945
They're working on another game apparently, but it's probably on hold for now due to Ni-Oh
who /shinobi/ for ps2 here
>>339398418
Don't tell me you're unironically one of these retards claiming Very Hard is more difficult than Revengeance. Only one part in the whole game is easier on Revengeance and that's the Sam fight, which is not even a difficult part of the game to begin with so...
>>339398829
>Ninja Gaiden is only fun on MNM.
Not really. I had fun with every difficulty simply because the combat is top notch. Something that can't be said of GoW.
>>339399232
Yes, Shinobi is great. It's not really relevant to the thread mind you.
Unless we're just moving on to ninja games in general. In which case, who Tenchu WOH here?
>>339399126
Theseus is better than 80% of the bosses in DMC3, and most QTEs are alternate kill methods that give health/magic instead of upgrade points.
>>339399232
>dat ost
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y4adfCKft7w
>>339399402
well I posted that because i'm the OP and I already had my questions answered (i got black) and figured might as well continue the discussion. tenchu was slower and more stealth based right? i never played them. looked cool though
>>339399529
>Theseus is better than 80% of the bosses in DMC3
But not Vergil. And almost every DMC boss is better than every other GoW boss because they're not giant telegraph event lumps. Mostly.
>most QTEs are alternate kill methods that give health/magic instead of upgrade points.
Which doesn't make them less repetitive and tiresome to watch, or more challenging. It's incredibly dull and flow breaking in a game orientated around relatively fast action. Sorry.
>>339398945
>Shit bosses
>Shit exploration
>Shit like arem tumour to give you a free kill
>Shit like kunai climb and falcon dives which I think is part of why Rachel didn't return
>No Rachel
>Have to spends money to rank weapons up
>>339399760
Yeah, it's one of the few actual stealth-based ninja games that turned out alright, which is pretty weird when you think about it.
Wrath of Heaven was probably the best, the series kind of when downhill after that. Shinobido did a decent job of following in its footsteps, though.
>>339399929
Vergil is an obvious outlier. His fights are the only good ones, and the worst DMC3 boss is miles worse than the worst GoW one.
If you don't want to use kill QTEs, then don't. They're completely optional and only there as a crutch for bad players.
>>339400345
>His fights are the only good ones
Don't fucking lie now, not when putting GoW on a pedestal, for fuck's sake. Have some dignity for crying out loud. Credo alone is better than most of them put together.
>They're completely optional and only there as a crutch for bad players.
You also need them to open the dumb chests and a bunch of the other environmental shit to get through the levels. It's just tedious.
I'd try and get more into this argument, but I've just forgotten too much about GoW to care, the games in general just aren't very memorable. Sorry about that.
The day I heard MS was going to stop manufacturing 360 consoles was the day I went out and bought a slim 360 and was lucky enough to find a NGB retail copy. And also bought NG2.
>>339399008
the genre isn't exactly bursting with new games, if you liked 1+2 you should play 3RE
>>339400881
I've only ever referred to DMC3. Never put much time into DMC4 and see no reason to change that.
That was only really a problem in the first game. GoW2 fixed nearly all those problems by reducing the amount of button presses or removing them altogether. Not to mention that it's ultimately a tangential complaint.
>>339401369
360s aren't going to be getting any cheaper, are they?
>>339401451
So you're only concerned with older DMC games, but not older GoW games? Fine, whatever.
>Not to mention that it's ultimately a tangential complaint.
Maybe, but it's the strongest impression the games left me with. Everything else is a blur of repetitive mob fights and giant event bosses.
>>339401907
Not sure I got mine second hand from my country's version of gamestop for like 100 bucks.
>>339401993
Ironically DMC1 is my favorite game in the series. I really dislike DMC3 and consider it a major step backwards in almost every aspect and is flawed to its very core. DMC1's implementation of the style system and rewarding constant offense instead of shitty combos can't be beat. Meanwhile GoW2 is the best in the series and the recent games are complete shit.
It's almost like you're being contrarian. I can see why you'd dislike GoW after coming from NG, but by that same measure you should dislike DMC3 as well.
>>339399232
>speedrun the game
Hell yea, favorite ps2 game, I loved how it managed to keep the arcade spirit of the original trilogy.
>>339402481
>Ironically DMC1 is my favorite game in the series.
Wow, are you me? I never bring this up on /v/ since everyone would just shit on me, but I love DMC 1 and it's the only game in the series that I still replay every once in a while. The huge combo focus in the other DMC games has never appealed to me (its level design and atmosphere are also much better). I think it's why I prefer Ninja Gaiden in general.
>>339402481
Not him but based on what you like about DMC1, maybe youd like Vergil in DMC4SE? Motivation meter rewards being offensive and not getting hit in general
No u have to get black.
>>339381735
>Ninja Gaiden 1 and 2 PC port with all costumes from all versions, updated graphics and the same gameplay from Black and NG2
>Emma Fang and cannon added to NG2
>Costumes are applicable to both games
>Extra playable characters are selectable to play through the campaign instead of having unskippable chapters in Ryu's campaign
Plz.
>>339402481
>It's almost like you're being contrarian
I'm just saying it as I've seen it. GoW just doesn't do anything for me, especially the bosses which aren't very good for action games in general.
>I can see why you'd dislike GoW after coming from NG
If you mean because it's slow, that's not the problem. Onimusha is slow but that suits it's combat system, and the bosses and fights match it well. GoW just doesn't do the same, from what I played of it.
>but by that same measure you should dislike DMC3 as well.
I don't like DMC3 as much as DMC4, Bayonetta or NGB, but I can appreciate the gameplay for the most part. It's not sacrosanct, but it was memorable.
>>339403235
>Emma fang
Good taste, I hope that gets a buff,
>>339403235
Never ever, pcuck.
>>339402950
If the style meter still acts the same way it does in DMC3 and the enemies are very lax, then I doubt it. "Style" isn't cycling through a dozen different attacks when one or two would do the same job quicker and easier.
>>339403550
NGII was hampered by the 360s limitations. NGB is just old. Both would benefit from better hardware.
>>339403704
Have you played Metal Gear Rising? I think the higher difficulties have some issues with "combo" requirements but mostly, finishing fights quickly and without getting hit is rewarded. It makes fights concise and satisfying.
>>339403485
A buff? Its UT is strong as fuck.
>>339403713
>updating Black to "modern" stards
Please for tge love of god no
>>339404002
Just talking about graphically. Nothing about gameplay should change.
>>339404215
just make it look like Sigma graphically. There, problem solved
Let's be realistic here, if they ever make an hd remaster, it's going to be Sigma 1 and 2. Hayashi and his team seem to want to distance themselves as much as they can from Itagaki's Team Ninja. If you still own Black/2 on the Xbox/360, then hold on to those copy bros, it may be the only way to ever play those versions outside of emulators.
>>339404736
Not letting my copies go anywhere.
S2 team missions make you go back to the mission select screen and then re-load from scratch with no restart mission option
Why?
