Where were you when video games officially kill?
Discuss casual misconceptions and elitism myths
>Where were you when video games officially kill?
Sitting in my chair doing nothing productive whatsoever. How about you?
>>339299246
>Reviewers job isnt to be good at games
>[its] to communicate experience in an easy to understand informative way
Does he mean a fucking BLOG?
Jesus christ at least admit your bad, is that so hard? or will it crush their fucking feelings?
>You need to be able to pick up a controller and figure out how a thumbstick works
but that's exactly where polygon failed
>>339299678
What I don't get is why he stuck to shooters, or any genre that requires quick reflexes like fighting or racing games. Why not focus on other genres?
I just spend the last month sperging in Cities: Skylines trying to lower the traffic and seducing my sister in Crusader Kings II, why won't he play something more chill like Tropico series? Stellaris came out recently, it doesn't require exceptional motor skills.
I think it's just a clickbait article.
>For every person with a good kill ratio, there's someone with a bad kill ratio.
Okay, but what does that have to do with being less competent than a 5 year old that plays nothing but Minecraft in a FPS single player campaign?
>>339300505
Do you honestly think the average game reviewer know that 4x or city builders exist?
>>339300505
>I think it's a clickbait article
You don't fucking say. Welcome to vidya "journalism"
>>339301098
It was supposed to be a 20 hour video epic of a man who starts out barely being able to walk around and shoot his enemies, slowly becoming a demon killing machine, and ending with him doing a nightmare playthrough. Unfortuately he got laughed out on the first act.
>>339301312
Is the average game reviewer THIS much of a scrub?
>>339299246
Watching Polygon fail is like chicken soup for the soul, everyone drink up
>>339299246
>video games officially kill
Don't you mean game journalism :^)
>>339301483
Well, sometimes it's only partially clickbait or not at all and it's a legit blog post of some dumblerina landwhale that somehow landed a job in bideo james.
>>339301626
>20 hour video epic
Starting a 20 hour anything with a video titled "The First 30 Minutes" is going against the point.
But I get that you're making it up and not serious.
To be honest though that would make a sorta interesting video series, getting a total vidya virgin to pick up and game and, over several months, see if they can learn to get really awesome at the game; and then as an extension, whether that skill could translate into a different game or even game genre.
>Why We Need [occupation] To Suck At [doing their fucking job]
If I weren't a lazy talentless son of a bitch I'd start making parody articles for firefighters or waiters or something.
>uses an analogy of K/D ratio to argue against people saying that a retard who doesn't know how to use a fucking controller is justified in reviewing said piece of media
thats like saying its okay for a 9 year old to criticize complex works of fiction as if they were professionals and that their opinion should be treated as highly as educated individuals in that field
I dont remember what I was doing in 2007.
>>339301626
I would actually want to see it, a calm cuckmeister slowly embracing his inner animal and gaining 1337 skillz in the process.
>>339302364DOOS ECKS
I wish people like this would stop, but I am not sure what would require that to happen.
Their jobs all rely on clicks and eyeballs on the site, and they get it regardless of the quality of their work. They can't even be trustworthy in their experience to be original or unique or interesting because they have no idea or simply do not care about the medium they have been employed in.
Kotaku and Polygon are staffed with people who are all friends. And, no, I'm not doing that "gamergate collusion" thing. They just hire buddies and bullshit around an office writing about nothing and collecting checks. There's no other explanation for why it's such a terrible source of hobby news.
I always thought Harrison Bergeron was written by some over-reacting right-winger and that it had no relation to real life.
But I can see now how he got inspired how to write that.
> you need to be able to pick up a controller and figure out how a thumbstick works
>you need to be able to experience the content of the game on a basic level
That's exactly what people were complaining about. Whoever was playing in that Doom video had clearly never used a controller before given their inability to aim, move or shoot at the same time. They didn't even know the fucking basics, it's wasn't about their 'skill'.
>>339303158
hilarious you mention that. I was discussing all the garbage going on in videogames and somewhat in society and its relation to that kind of shit the other day with someone who hadn't read it before.
I don't read too often these days, but that is one of my favorite short stories.
>>339299246
>walking and shooting at the same time is now an advanced skill
Oh my fuck. Should I add this skill to my resumé?
The doom thing shows a trend building on the VR shooting range fiasco where a Polygon reviewer expresses his insecuritys about firearms and how guns are scary machines made to murder people.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uwg6RTjCH7g
They cant review a fucking video game without injecting a sociopolitical diatribe and personal life story.
>>339302908
The real injustice is that I didn't think of it first.
![interviewer[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/263KfuS.jpg "interviewer[1].jpg")
>>339303718
>I'm sorry anon, but I think you're over-qualified for our 'video game reviewer' position.
>>339302908
Because video games aren't respected, so obviously video game "journalism" isn't either, and if it's not respected it's not taken seriously, so it's not regulated by anyone competent and you get faggots like we do today just doing whatever they want because there's nobody above them that cares
>>339299246
I still don't understand how people can stay bad at games.
People that spend hundreds of hours playing the same few games over and over with a few variations still do not learn the basics of them.
It is honestly baffling, with most other activities you would think these people have developmental problems.
It's less to do with being good at a game, just not absolute shit Surely over the years you would figure out how to play a game properly, then again they obviously play on the easiest difficulty available.
>>339304060
My guess is that they just keep playing the same multiplayer setting or easy/normal difficulty games and never try anything harder/higher level so their ability just stagnates and they turn away from anything out of that comfort zone
source: I have 2000 hours in TF2 and I'm still mediocre at best at it, he'll I've probably gotten worse
>>339304060
>Sister has been playing Donkey Kong Country for 20 years.
>Still can never make it to the Gorilla Glacier savepoint.
>>339299246
>Where were you when video games officially kill?
Eating homemade cookies and watching YuruYuri
>>339304060
In the case of shooters I just don't have fast reflexes. I can spend hundreds of hours developing the instincts needed to time shots from non hitscan weapons, familiarize myself with map layout, etc, but I will never be faster than the other guy who has put in the same effort. I just don't ever raise the barrel up to the enemy's head as fast as the other guy. Not the same situation as the Polygon guy, I know. But that's my issue.... I just used to stick to turn based RPGs.
>>339304747
you sound like a cool guy
wanna be my bf?
>>339299246
what he is arguing about doesn't make sense,
saying bad players need bad reviewers to tell them what games will work for them
but no where do they say in the review that they are shit at video games
I am willing to meet them half way and agree let anyone review whatever they want, but they need to put a disclaimer at the start of every review saying
>I am a reviewer that is bad at video games
or
>I am a reviewer who is not a fucking idiot and knows how to play video games
this needs to be a thing
>>339299246
>What if I don't want to do that?
Then please get a job where you don't misinform customers for a living
I suppose he's right. After all, there are special movie and book reviews for stupid people, by stupid people.
>>339304765
maybe you just have worse connection
I used to think I was shit atCoDbut when I got better internet I shat all over my friends I was always losing to
>>339299246
I really wish all the frauds would just up and die in their sleep. They really are the cancer of the industry. Failed english majors with no skill or knowledge of the shit they review. They are officially jokes. GamerGate really was a blessing outting these cucks two years backs.
>>339304949
hardware reviewers do it all the time
they outline their testing procedures so that the reader will know how the reviewer came to their conclusions
all game reviewers have to do is say "i played on easy mode because im a piece of shit" and BOOM a positive reputation is created
honestly can go a long way toward building a trusting relationship with your readers
>>339299246
Nigga, I'm not going to read that.
Reviewers don't matter much and never really did.
>>339305340
>GamerGate really was a blessing outting these cucks two years backs.
lmao
regardless of what you think of journalism, gamergate did fuck all
>>339305156
Eh, I hate to blame things outside my control.
>>339299246
>Discuss casual misconceptions and elitism myths
The idea that there is only one sort of "video game player" and that everything must be targeted towards that one small demographic.
The idea that there can be universally good video games, which everyone finds enjoyable, and universally bad games, which everyone finds unenjoyable.
The idea that everyone plays video games for the same reasons.
The idea that AAA is somehow superior, necessary, or automatically desirable.
The idea that indie is somehow superior, necessary, or automatically desirable.
The misunderstanding that all interactive media get named "video games" and not understanding the distinction between different types of interactive media.
Which did you want to talk about first?
>>339305340
Not really. Gamergate just gave them an excuse to be shit and allowed them to justify being shit at their job. If anyone criticises them, it's because of gamergate and the person criticising them is just an angry, videogame-playing, misogynistic virgin.
holy fuck I hate these people so much, I know I shouldn't let that condescending tone get under my skin but good god that's infuriating. the entitlement, the delusion.
>>339305767
>>339305610
Sure thing tumblr ;3
>>339305758
>The misunderstanding that all interactive media get named "video games" and not understanding the distinction between different types of interactive media.
I'm interested in this one. I'd say "video game" has become the generic term.
If you are going to showcase a preview of a game at least do it with both hands.
Don't make the poor fucker that lost his right hand record a gameplay video like polygon does.
>>339304765
>I just don't ever raise the barrel up to the enemy's head as fast as the other guy.All you have to do is keep your crosshair on the height of character model's head at all times, that's half of the work already done without wasting time and then you only have to adjust left or right.
Once you learn to keep that consistently you'll see a big improvement, I know I did.
>>339299246
Videogame critics aren't supposed to be able to play on a competitive level, just like football critics aren't supposed to be football players.
(former athletes are actually often pretty much shit when it comes to judge their old sport as critics)
Still, football critics have to be experts but enthusiasts, they need to know what the fuck they're talking about more than anyone else, and they need to stay as objective as possible. They don't have to influence the industry they work in, they just have to tell the truth while informing people.
Same shit with videogame critics
>>339307037
>Watching a sports game is the same as playing a game and critizising the experience.
Are you ok, anon?
How does your skill at a game not affect the experience you get out of it?
A sports commenter isn't involved in the game whatsoever, he's just a spectator. A gaming journalist isn't just spectating. Why does this even need explaining?
It's getting to the point that I think that if the gaming community were to agree that breathing is enjoyable we'd hear the next day that a bunch of journalists died overnight from oxygen deprivation.
>>339307037
Maybe if vidya was anything close to the size of football or basketball it would be the case, but they are and probably always will be children's toys and will be taken as seriously as such, so we're doomed to be stuck with faggots like these for the foreseeable future
what? Those progressive tards can suck as much as they want far away from me, I don't visit their websites anyway
>>339307591
>still, football critics have to be experts but enthusiasts
How can someone be unable to play videogames while being "experts" and "enthusiasts"?
>>339307037
It doesn't work like sports, football isn't product you're reviewing and trying to sell to someone, sportscasters don't play a game of football and tell you the pros and cons of football and whether or not to buy it. It's like a review of any product or media, the reviewer should at least have some skill/experience in it to determine and communicate its value to others
>>339304949
We dont need that, everyone can already tell if some reviewer is a fucking idiot or not, and openly ridicule them to a point their salty friends start writing articles crying about elitist gamers in other gaming sites. Shit's hilarious.
>>339308696
Some skills =/= playing on a competitive level
>>339299246
>Implying videogame reviewers shouldn't be good at videogames.
Yeah, fuck significance, lets have homeless review restaurants, teens do wine tasting, hell, lets have movie reviewers read a manga while the movie is going on, lets have prison paroll board consist of drug addicts.
Reviews aren't supposed to be by competent people, right?
>>339306503
>I'd say "video game" has become the generic term.
Video games have become the generic term, although it might be more correct to say that we've seen more and more different types of interactive media, and "video games" are really the only term that most people are familiar with. As such, people who want information or coverage of visual novels or other interactive entertainment will go to video game websites to find it... which is how "video games" have ended up covering a lot wider range of stuff than just games.
After all, is a visual novel a video game? Not really, no. There's generally no game aspect, at least not in a pure visual novel - you might see some branching paths and so a "game" of following each path, but a large number are also perfectly straight runs with no options beyond when to progress. There are a number of walking simulators which are perfectly fine for what they are - wandering around and either experiencing a story, or even just looking around an environment. Many are frequently not games in any real sense, but more focused on delivering the type of atmosphere or presence rather than trying to generate some sort of puzzles to resemble gameplay.
Who is at fault? It's hard to say. I'm inclined to point a finger at game reviewers/journalists. After all, they reach the widest audience and generate the most discussion. If they'd decided to make a "visual novel" category distinct from video games, and a "walking sim" category, then a lot of the confusion might be cleared up. But then again, the audience is hardly blameless. Just take a look at how everyone so vehemently discusses "not a video game" and bitches about such things on Steam... despite Steam already selling movies, soundtracks, and even computer software. People should just stop bitching about how something is or is not a game, and stop bitching about how VNs are available on Steam.
(and out of characters)
>>339308942
Geeze guys it's like, just my personal experience. It's not like reviews can be objective in any way. All reviews are just casual subjective opinions that directly influence what companies choose to greenlight and directly impact gamedev bonuses. Haha, it's not like they hire us to do "mock reviews" for them so they can change the game based on them to get better reviews.
It's not like video games are fundamentally glorified excel spreadsheets or anything.
>>339309352
>After all, is a visual novel a video game? Not really, no. There's generally no game aspect, at least not in a pure visual novel - you might see some branching paths and so a "game" of following each path, but a large number are also perfectly straight runs with no options beyond when to progress.
For something to qualify as a videogame it needs to have a fail state, visual novels have this in terms of early undesirable endings called bad end which are equivalent of a game-over screen in a non-VN games, so they are videogame.
Just remember that, while it seems fairly obvious that what makes a game is interactivity, its actually not, since you can have all the gameplay of a AAA action adventure game and still have it classified as a technical demo if it is impossible to fail, lose, or die in any way.
>>339309459
You're trying too hard dude.
>>339309738
>You're trying too hard dude.
what did he mean by this?
>we need journalists to suck at video games
Is this the new "gamers are dead"?
>>339309859
I meant that if you've read it,your mother will get cancer unless you say "What did he mean by this meme is for faggots"
>>339310038
>you talk like a gamejourno
what did he mean by this?
>>339310102
it means you type a lot without actually saying anything of value or meaning
>>339310102
You're bad at it
>>339310168
>it means you type a lot without actually saying anything of value or meaning
What did he meany by this?
>>339310168
>one sentence
>a lot
Maybe in niggerville where you were born.
Too fucking bad reviewers don't buy the games.
Dev's will tell them to fuck off if you keep voting with your wallets.
>>339299246
>"professional video gamer" that's bad at video games
>having an opinion worth reading
Nope.
>>339299246
>>339310361
>a lot
are you complaining I spelled it the correct way?
>>339309738
>For something to qualify as a videogame it needs to have a fail state, visual novels have this in terms of early undesirable endings called bad end which are equivalent of a game-over screen in a non-VN games, so they are videogame.
Not all visual novels have Bad Ends. Just to grab a (poor quality) example I know off hand, Nekopara Vol. 1 had only a single "story path" that never branched and never offered you any options. You could only click to progress to the next page, or save the game. Those were your only options.
There is certainly no game there, even under the broadest definitions.
But that's sort of my point. Just because Nekopara isn't a game doesn't make it a bad experience.It is a bad experience, but being a game or not is irrelevant towards that.People who are curious about Nekopara deserve to know what it is like, and so just ignoring it and not reviewing it is not a good idea. It still gets sold in the same place that video games are sold. And so you do still want something like Nekopara discussed and reviewed in a place that reviews video games... without responding with an elitist "But it's not a video game!" It would be ideal to simply label it a visual novel, clarifying that it's a story with no branching and just a run through the story itself, without people complaining on a no-VN stance.
You do make a good point, though. There are some interactive media which are like visual novels and have some game elements. Splitting paths with game overs is a good example. "Hidden" branching paths are another one popular in visual novels like that. And then there are games like 999, Virtue's Last Reward, or Ace Attorney which could be considered visual novels with large amount of game content in them as well. So there is not a strict Visual Novel/Video Game division, but rather a spectrum where something could be a non-game VN, a VN with game elements, a VN video game, or a video game with VN elements.
>>339299246
>Using Kill death ratio to judge a player's skill
But that's a terrible way to judge a player's skill. Even if kill:death ratio was the only thing that mattered, (No objectives, no supporting roles, etc) kill death ratio shows your skills compared to the players you're playing against, not your skill overall. Just because I can get a 100:0 ratio against some mentally retarded kids doesn't mean I'm better than a player who went 5:6 in the top 8 of a world championship.
>need to have a complex and in depth understanding of literature to review literature in any professional sense
>same for film, cooking, most if not all forms of artistry
>videogames are literally the exact opposite
Why?
>>339307037
That would work if videogame reviewers just watched someone else play a game and their reviewed/criticised how they were playing.
A football critic doesn't review the actual game. They review how the players played it.
>>339311192
football critics are usually former players, good ones.
>>339299246
Let's apply this logic to books as we do to video games.
If I wanted to read a book review, I would hope the reviewer would enjoy books and enjoy them to the point where he has an adequate vocabulary to understand most of the words in the book, he doesn't have to have an encyclopedic memory of every word ever used, but he has to be well versed enough to get the book as a whole. It feels like this sort of thing is just common sense though. I would hope that anyone reviewing, talking about, or blogging about games coming from the position that they like games, would be good enough at them to at least pass as average.
A classic book like Infinite Jest is not shit just because most people would not get it if they read it, I believe the same to be true about a game like Dwarf Fortress. I kind of believe that reviews for games like CS:Go or Fighters also suffer because of this. They are the best games in the world to some people, and I wouldn't trust a review, blog or new post talking about one of those games if it wasn't written by one of those people who are just too bad to get into it.
>>339306967
>what are height differences
>>339308942
I feel like Homeless reviewing restaurants would br a neat concept
>>339311330
>infinite jest
stopped reading there
>>339309963
What mean?!
Fighting games always suffered with reviews because 90% of the time Reviwers either never cared for the genre to get better at it or never had the time to become better at it, so their reviews are the most superficial analysis possible that tells you absolutely nothing about how the game actually plays.
>>339311287
>football
You mean american football? Because former soccer players are mostly awful soccer critics, with a few exceptions
>>339312120
Sorry mate, I just didn't know what would be considered a genuinely hard read so I went with the meme option.
And to think, if that whole GG fiasco didint happen /v/ would be sucking this guy's dick.
>>339312487
yeah, but I think what I said is also true for Hockey, UFC and probably everything else. It's usually retired coaches/players or at the least enthusiasts if they're not color commentators.
>>339311330
You can't enjoy all books. Some book reviews are going to be written by someone who just plain didn't like the book they were reading. And they'll write their review with that dislike shaping their opinion. They might ignore the good parts and focus exclusively on how they just didn't like it. Like how people ignore plot holes and bad writing in stories they like.
A review needs to be without bias.
>>339312368
This is why game website should hire pro fighting game players like Mike Ross to do review. They're insanely quick to adapt to new games and have ample understanding on how fighting games works.
>>339307037
If a novel reviewer could only read on a first grade level, he would be laughed out of the business
>>339311330
>>339312581
Book analysis is generally more about looking at historic or social themes in a piece of literature, or critically looking to see if something can be read or some overall theme can be seen in it. That's typically why book analysis isn't something a lot of people bother with - it's fairly "heady" and fairly irrelevant towards a person who might only read a book a single time. We are well past the point where someone needs to spend some time thinking about a book just to understand what it is saying, at least with current literature.
Most book reviews are mainly interested in describing the book's subject, its content, anything which it does surprising or unusual, and anything which a potential reader might want to know before picking it up. To go back to the first post, you'd want a book reviewer to be familiar with books and with the genre so they would understand what is considered unusual and what isn't (Harry Potter coming out on top is not at all surprising, so not worth mentioning) and to be capable of making comparisons to other books. It would also be worthwhile to make comparisons to other non-genre books, to be able to accurately mention if a book is mystery-like and how similar it is to other mystery books, for an example.
I have not read Infinite Jest, so I am not sure what comparison you are trying to make. I would likely compare Halo, Counter Strike, or Call of Duty to something like the Tom Clancy books, for several reasons. There are some people who just want to read Tom Clancy, because they enjoy the wartime theme and setting, and they are interested in the military character motivations and the climatic encounters which threaten military war if they go wrong. Tom Clancy might not be high literature or exception examples of writing as an art form, but they do tend to offer a lot of content (books are quite thick) and they deliver the experience some people want.
>>339307709
>but they are and probably always will be children's toys and will be taken as seriously as such
Kek, anon. It's not fucking 1980, videogames are as normal a media as film.
>>339313869
Harry Potter is a very poorly written series, to be fair. A decent reviewer would point that out. The plot holes and so on.
But they would also say people will still like it because of subject and target audience, or something like that.
Is there anything funnier than all these hacks rushing to cover for each other every time?
>>339315003
To be fair, the largest problems with Harry Potter didn't become apparent until the later books. The first four (arguably five) didn't have many faults, outside ones fairly typical of the genre. I'd say that circumstances making Harry Potter always in the right, and everyone always supporting even his bad decisions, were the largest fault in the early books.
You are right that a reviewer would likely focus more on how the target audience would enjoy or be interested in the books, though. I don't think that anyone assumed that Harry Potter would be nearly as popular as it turned out to be, although the length of its run (nearly ten years) was probably a large factor in that - people who started the series as kids and teenagers ended up being parents themselves, still interested, when the series ended.
>>339299246
Too bad they are reviewers and not lets players, they arent supposed to have fun, they are supposed to show the whole game and talk about it, if its hard they should say its hard, not just stand around like a retard messing with basic controls, how this sites are so big is a mistery for me
>>339315003
Harry Potter was more like a global phenomenon
>a whole generation of kids watch a children-friendly movie about wizards
>half of them buy the book since it's a kiddie book
>half of those who started reading it also got the second one
>they keep making the movies
>it becomes awfully popular worldwide
>every kid of that generation knows Harry Potter
>there's now a fucking huge fanbase of readers and movie fans
>that kiddie generation spent their childhood and adolescence with Harry Potter as a constant
>no matter which form, they grow up with it
>books and movies knows their target is aging
>they get more "adult", "dark", "mature" each book/movie
>series still get to stay kids oriented, since even new kids watch the first movies
>the whole thing gets to stay relevant until the end of the last movies
>that generation of kids is now a generation of young adult that spent their life with Harry Potter as something that was "always there" while they were growing up
>they now want more
>the horse can't stay dead so JK has to beat it up more and more
It's a commercial/entertainment work of art if you think about it.
>>339315423
>>339316894
Proper reaction
>I don't like <thing>
>ok
Internet feminist reaction
>I don't like <thing>
>YOU ARE ALL THAT'S WRONG WITH THE WORLD AND HERE ARE TWENTY ARTICLES PROVING WHY
Meanwhile he's making free money from controversy clicks, and all he had to say was he's not watching a movie.
>>339299246
>people LITERALLY replying to pasta
You posted this a few days ago you fucking faggot OP
>>339304060
I think my issue is that because I play so many different types of games I don't become particularly great at any one.
