Is there a more mechanically advanced game than Super Mario 64 ?
EVE
Most games are more advanced. Mario 64 wasn't praised for having advanced controls.
>>339202624
Sunshine had pretty good movement too. I loved how Mario ran and turned in that game.
Parallel Universes and Scuttlebug raising aren't mechanics.
![SSB_Melee_Replays[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/C6XPiQu.jpg "SSB_Melee_Replays[1].jpg")
>>339202624
.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qB1ucmJSgRE
Yes, any other 3d platformer d doesn't come close
Does anyone have that video about game developers for some crazy graphics AAA game talking about their advanced fish AI and then it shows a clip of Mario64 with the same technology?
league of legends
Honestly, Sunshine, even though it is a worse game.
>>339202624
Uncharted 4
>>339203535
Found it:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TMYso30L9zI
And it gets even better:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ip2AfsDvhW0
Melee?
>>339204074
I just knew when I first saw that trailer that the fish AI wasn't actually going to work in the final game. There's no reason why it should be impressive or at all difficult to implement, so bringing it up in a trailer could only mean that it doesn't work.
>>339204509
>>339203586
>>339203558
>>339203119
>>339203048
>>339202935
None of those have parallel universes or scuttlebug raising or speed buildup or speed storage or HOLPs or Pedro spots or
>>339203048
nah, 64 was better
Sunshine's fludd just showed off how loose the controls really were
>>339202624
Mario 64 isn't that advanced, it just has autismos willing to explore every nook and cranny of the game.
Mario 64 has rather deep controls, you can always control Mario more efficiently or faster. That said the levels don't let the player showcase their skills. It would be like some fighting game where the sickest move dealt a minuscule amount of damage.
I play a lot of SM64 and i find the controls fun, it's a delight to move Mario about, but whenever i enter a stage i never get to showcase that because the core game is too easy or slow, an example of this would be rainbow ride where a large part of 3 of its stars is just waiting on a magical carpet doing fuck all.
>>339203054
>something you can do in the game
>not a mechanic
A mechanic is a mechanic, you can't say it's not a mechanic.
>>339205198
SM64 psychics allow this to happen.
>>339206438
Is a shame 3D platformers now a days are slow cinematic rubbish like Ratchet and Clank or collectatons. Nintendo has also abandoned this after Galaxy.
>>339208823
It is, altough it pains me to say so i really wish a small team would just throw away their pride and blatantly copy SM64's controls and ship it with harder stages and a level editor. I get that developers want to improve the genre and express themselves artistically, at least the the team for a project like this. But in the end i don't think it's possible to improve in any significant way SM64's controls, only it's level design.
>>339209370
There are plenty of okish hacks.
>>339210025
There are, but the such perfection within controls deserve a grander stage than n64 hacks. Also i've heard that the camera tends to be shit on those. That said it was shit in the actual game too, but if it's even worse in the hacks then that's one serious shit steak, and i don't want to take a bit of that.
Super Mario 64 proved something that almost no video game since has remembered:
The player doesn't have to need every ability.
Super Mario 64 was playing with its 3D space and just having fun with what Mario can do. You can 120-Star the entire game without ever doing a long jump or a cartwheel or a belly slide, or KNOWING about a breakdance.
Most games since have tried to find A Use for every ability; abilities are like keys to the doors that are puzzles or obstacles.
What made SM64 charming was that they looked at every possible state (what if he hits punch while crouched and sliding?) and came up with an action that corresponded to it with its own properties. Then they went to the level designers and said "make this doable if all Mario does is run, jump, butt-stomp, backflip, and occasionally wall kick or grab"
So all of the other abilties were just for fun.
>>339206438
You should try playing melee. Like SM64 the movement and controls are unbelievably tight but you have other people to play against, so there's never the problem of not being able to showcase you skills
>>339203128
BUT
>>339210698
I have played melee, i played quite a bit as peach and had some fun. And while i agree that melee is incredibly deep i find the core game to be a bit of a bore. Not that there is anything wrong with it, i just dislike fighting games.
>>339210604
This is very true, i've rarley if ever used any of the z+b moves. Also with how many moves have a dual purpose it helps to add into this. Makes it simple to pick up to play but you don't have to be autist that uses every button to get good.
>>339210767
first
>>339210482
The main problem with those is the camera indeed but at the same time they are made for SM64 enthusiast so you will have fun collecting stars.
>>339208823
its a shame that you dont know what youre talking about. then again, I never count on this board to be smart.
>>339211803
wew
>>339211483
perhaps i should spend 5 minutes learning how to hack roms or whatever the process is called. Collecting stars in normal sm64 is incredibly easy.
>>339202624
Stop making this fucking thread
>>339202624
pretty much everything after 1996
>>339208823
They didn't abandon though
The 3D Series are an entirely different beast, Miyamoto considers it middle ground between 2D and 3D and not part of the normal 3D Action Platformers like Galaxy
Your actually Platforming now with it being the major focus, so you need tighter controls, being loose and floppy with fuck it up
>>339212289
The new director who ever it is I don't remember his name basically wants you to keep solving puzzle after puzzle until you reach the goal, that's has been the approach in Galaxy and 3D land/world, now between that and the crap Ubisoft and Sony make I'll chose that. I just miss my tight psychics.
>>339206438
>>339208823
You see the issue here?
Yes the controls are free and fun, but they don't do anything for the game
There's a reason 3D World made the controls tighter, because the Platforming is more crucial and demands you be tight or your going to have a bad time
You need controls and level design to actually work together
>>339202624
BUT TO ANSWER THAT
>>339212553
need to talk about how an A press is just an A press
>>339208823
>abandoned this after Galaxy
Abandoned what exactly?
You can still crawl, you can still long jump, you can tumble roll and cat suit and tanooki adds even more movement options
Or are you specifically talking now about 8 directions?
Cause the game was built around it for precision Platforming like 2D Mario
>>339212680
>I just miss my tight physics
You should fix your statement
3D World is literally the tighest movement in the series
>>339212725
Yes i do see the issue, i pointed it out in my post.
We can have the best of both worlds anon, free controls with level design that rewards use of those.
>>339213036
Look I'm not shitting on it so calm your autism, Galaxy is floaty as fuck and linear, yes I know it was intended, yes I know it works with the game design. All I'm saying is I wish Nintendo would do another game with the platforming and psychics of Sunshine and SM64 that's all. Jesus.
Man, I miss when games just dumped a bunch of rules into an environment and let you go nuts. The modern approach of making games just a linear sequence of deliberate setpieces that eat the budget and makes campaigns sub-10 hours can lick my balls.
>>339212725
There's also a reason 3D World isn't as beloved as 64, though.
It was the superfluity of it that made it so charming; that mario could leaping-slide to frontflip even though all he needed to do was run and occasionally jump.
When I think of really great games, almost all of them seem to be about giving the player the freedom to do so much more than what's actually needed to progress. Some games have lengthy sidequests, some games have overly complex character creators, some games have elaborate and stylish combat mechanics... But fairly rare (though not unheard-of) is the beloved game that only lets you do things necessary for satisfying win conditions.
Ultima Underworld, now fuck off.
>>339204852
Melee has all the shit on this page.
More shit has been discovered but this was the easiest way to show Melee goes deep as hell.
http://smashboards.com/threads/wavedashing-l-cancelling-all-the-terms-read-first-update-12-23-2007.42749/
HOWEVER WE MUST PRIORTIZE THE DISCUSSION OF ALTERNATE WORLDS
>>339213769
Melee's depth is the product of an overworked studio having no time to realize most of the ramifications of what they put in the game, which in reality is just bad design.
>>339214096
your mom never realized most of the ramifications of having a dipshit fucking child like you
>>339204852
I aspire to create a game that can be broken to pieces by lunatic hardcore players doing something as ridiculous as the A Button challenge.
In factI plan to rachet up the difficulty and outlandishness of mission objectives on NG+ and up playthroughs until I get to a set of objectives which couldn't be completed without an unholy degree of mastery, or even objectives I doubt COULD be completed period, at which point I will then make an even HARDER set of objectives, and finally stop, and basically dare players to be good enough to break the game
>>339214269
This is true for most parents.
>>339214316
>I aspire to create a game that can be broken to pieces by lunatic hardcore players doing something as ridiculous as the A Button challenge.
It could be literally any game, SM64 just has some really autistic fans.
>>339214754
Throwing that word around is telling of a deep-seeded issue anon. Are you afraid you're autistic?
>>339214754
No anon, it needs to be a good game. Do you see people dedicating to get good at knack?
>>339215007
>throwing the word autistic around
>when referencing the A button challenge
It is quite possibly the most autistic video game related thing that has ever been witnessed.
>>339215185
more like the Autistic button challenge
>>339214754
No, I know. My point is to embrace that with bonus-bonus-bonus objectives that would REQUIRE the game be completely deconstructed Pannenkoek-style just to complete them.
So few games do this; games do their normal mode, their hard mode for players who have beaten it once, then maybe a very hard mode for players who are really good.
But rarely do we see the level above that, for the obsessive players; objectives that force you to be a world-class speedrunner or mechanics expert, the kind of player who has hundreds of thousands of players logging into Twitch or YouTube to watch them play because they're That Good.
I want to do that, and then once you beat that, because fuck you, even HARDER objectives that force you to uncover glitches and abuse the shit out of every available exploit.
I want to create my game in such a way that if it was Mario 64, there would be a "get 70 stars without pressing A" or "kill every Goomba in Bowser in the Sky" or other shit that just shouldn't be possible.
>>339215453
I see, but how would you know where to stop without making the game literally impossible?
>>339210698
hang yourself
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fEka8AR68jo
Pannenkoek is legitimately crazy.
>>339215660
That's the most interesting question.
Maybe you don't.
Maybe you have a game that can't ever be completed without hacking it.
More to the point, how many players could even get to those challenges, if the ones that precede them are the provably-possible-but-ludicrously-tough like "clear the game without collecting a single coin" or "beat the game in X minutes" (where X is a number calculated by measuring the player's movement speed in units/second and tracing out the shortest possible path through required stars, adding in the time of all the necessary animations, and adding 15 seconds as a grace period)
But man, talk about replay value. A game that could be beaten but never completed. A userbase full of "82% complete"s.
Even if you fucked up and made it truly impossible it'd still be memorable as fuck.
>>339215994
People would fucking hate it.
>>339204852
You're mistaking glitches and random circumstances for "complexity"
>>339216104
There is literally nothing random the way Pannenkoek plays Mario 64. He even manipulates the "RNG" in half his runs.
>>339215994
This would have the opposite effect.
People do speedruns or use crazy hacks and glitches do so because it isn't expected of them.
They want to push the game to its limits but once that becomes a requirement it loses its magic
>>339216082
What if games were made to suit special interest groups instead of a widespread consumerbase
>>339216271
>Does things the devs didn't intend to happen
>It's not random
Yes it is.
>>339216082
Then you make it so the game reaches 100% after the first playthrough so that people who get all hung up on completionism can sleep at night.
I'm intrigued by the idea of (bonus) challenges that have theoretically valid win conditions but no reasonable way for the player to satisfy them. Fez did it with the burnt puzzle and, for all its other multitudinous faults, that was a really interesting challenge to watch unfold as people picked at it online... Though mostly because the solution was bruteforced and everyone obsessed over WHY it was right, HOW they should have known.
>>339216486
Anon I think you're confusing complexity in playstyle with complexity in the makeup of the game itself being evinced by a playstyle
Probably...
maybe?
>In early May 2016, researches from Uppsala University managed to collapse a series of Parallel Universes from Nintendo's seminal videogame Super Mario 64
>"By combining a successful Scuttlebug Hop, a technique pioneered by pannenkoek2012, with an Schwartzwelder Flip, we were able to allow Mario to transverse multiple PU's at a given time" said lead research Ake Hforthson. "However, this created an unstable existence matrix, which forced the PU's to collapse back on themselves in order to bring a single Mario back into existence."
>The 37 page research paper went into more detail about physics behind such an event. "It's something that has escaped researchers for decades. We knew it was possible, we just didn't know how."
>Researchers hope this new phenomenon, aptly named a "Hforthson Matrix", will have immediately applications in the fields of interstellar space travel.
>"Research into Super Mario 64 has enabled some of the greatest achievements of mankind. We believe that this is the next big contribution from this field." Hforthson concluded.
>>339202624
>can't have scuttlebug jamborees
nope
>>339208823
>SM64
>not a collectathon
>>339208823
3D platformers still exist? Because there's like 1 coming out by former Rare guys and a vaporware made by some guy who's not trustworthy at all
>>339212725
>or your going to have a bad time
>your
>>339216836
no. you've spent hours watching stupid glitch videos and you don't want to admit that you wasted your time so you want to think that Mario 64 is the most mechanically advance game ever which is the stupidest thing in the world
>>339216978
The collecting in SM64 is just its form of a goalpost like all platformers have. It's not the bulk of play like in Rare games.
>>339217401I'm not the guy who made this thread and am really just playing devil's advocate at this point.Funny watching you get mad at people liking something thoughlol
>>339214269
>wasting a mom joke with salt
>>339202624
In terms of glitches, the N64 Zeldas are pretty nuts
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VkFSVBL4AI8
Let's be honest, this crazy scuttlebug raising fucker knows the game better than the people who made it, and that is impressive as shit
>>339202935
>Mario 64 wasn't praised for having advanced controls
>mechanically advanced
>imprecise as fuck controls with laughably bad camera
You kids are only "good" at Mario64 by sheer repetition making it a more advanced version of Dragon's Lair by knowing exactly which direction to hit and when to jump at what exact moment.
It's a 5/10 game at best.
>>339219429
t. Tj "henry" yoshi
mario 64, parallel universes aside, is the most complex, and advanced, 3D game in existence.
you simply cant debate this.
>>339202624
no way
>>339219668
nice bait
I have a serious question: was the term "parallel universe" actually justifiable, or is that just a very overblown way to sound fancy?
>>339219842
Honestly, the way it is set up where there are virtually infinite of them, and they are largely parallel, I'd say it's justified
>>339219684
Is the math in this shit actually real or is it just fancy-sounding babble?
>>339219684
>Equations with so many letters and symbols you can make a sentence with it.
>>339216909
sauce?
>>339215854
>>339219835
not b8ing though, mario 64 mechanics are quite deep.
the flying mechanics are more complex than, say, banjo kazooie.
>>339206438
Download Mario Rainbow Road.
It's a beautiful game and has more challenge.
>>339220619
They are deep, but not the deepest in any 3d game ever.
Unreal Tournament has more depth in movement alone (you could argue that other arena FPSes do too),
Sunshine had all the same shit instead of the longjump and the jump kick which the new moveset had psuedo-replacements for anyway.
Any given simulator of anything has more depth
Virtua Fighter has much more depth
>mario needs to take a whole 12 hours to leave the universe
Fucking amateur hour in here.
>>339221014
how
>>339221292
First, we need to talk about parallel universes
>>339221014
That's where you're mistaken, pathetic Kirby poster, it takes mario 12 hours to jump 4 universes
>>339221461
>took waddle doo ~30 seconds to jump one
>30s x 4
Still a fuckload better than Mario.
The fact that it's probably the most autopsied game out there certainly doesn't make it the most mechanically advanced.
>>339221014
STOP
>>339219684
>It is likely that a proof of the above conjecture requires significant advances in higher Mario theory.
>>339221591
He didn't even jump one, he died like a bitch
And if I remember correctly he actually had to jump like 12 because of some bullshit about synching speeds.
No game comes close to the complexity of mario 64 because no game has the video game equivalent of Einstein devoting their time to mastering it
>>339202935
LOL
Good one. Great joke. 10/10.
>>339215453
You. I like you.
all of this wasted autism is depressing
