>Tricks and Traps
>The Pit
>The Factory
>Downtown
>Gotcha!
>The Catacombs
>Barrel's O' Fun
What went so, so horribly wrong with Doom II's map design?
![[HorribleSubs] Non Non Biyori Repeat - 03 [720p].mkv_snapshot_04.23_[2015.07.21_00.30.10].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/uQwt4YG.jpg "[HorribleSubs] Non Non Biyori Repeat - 03 [720p].mkv_snapshot_04.23_[2015.07.21_00.30.10].jpg")
>Don't mind any of those maps except Factory and Downtown
Tenements can get fucked too.
>lists the best maps, not counting the shitacombs
What went so, so horribly wrong with OP's taste?
>>339152047
i always thought that doom 1 was the game with the worse map design
it's just kind of boring a lot of the time. Lots of plain, square rooms and coridoors, without the endless creativity of the second
My favorite Doom 2 map was Bloodfalls.
I don't mind The Pit because of its music, but Tricks and Traps/ Barrels/Downtown are all terrible.
I liked Downtown. Factory was hilariously bad, though.
OP is a faggot.
It might not be on par with Doom 1(which is still pretty debatable, act 2 has some terrible stuff) but Doom 2's maps were still legit.
>>339152486
doom 2 maps were more interesting to play in some cases because they were so out there but most of them were ugly as fuck
Two words.
Sandy Petersen.
Barrels O'Fun would've been a great bonus level, but you do not fucking make an actual level that is THAT gimmicky.
>>339153482
they were really scraping the bottom of the barrel for some original level ideas at that point
>>339152047
Most of those are good though.
>>339153954
simply epic
Am I the only one who's a hardcore Doom fan and would rate the series as my all time favourite, and yet has never bothered to play through the entirety of Doom II in sequence?
>>339154475
Probably, yes. People have played not only that, but other megawads, such as Final Doom.
>>339154475
you only really unlock dooms full potential by playing it with the best fanmade wads
>>339154848
Well I've completed every level from it, but I've never sat down and played through it from beginning to end, it ends up boring me
>>339154932
The fact that people still make new Doom wads is amazing. Why don't modern games be this open any more?
>>339155135
Maybe, you got into series later. It took me over 2 hours to complete some levels when I was a kid, was getting stuck and lost. It was frustrating, sure, but not boring.
>>339152047
nothing
>>339155404
Anyone can make a doom map. It's very easy to do. Many modern games are open but the degree of skill and effort to make maps for them gates out anyone who isn't a trained art team from doing it. It's been that way for a while and unless they make a game intentionally low-fi there's not really a way around it.
>implying any of those are worse than E4M1 and E4M2 in Doom 1
>>339154475
same here
>>339156180
>the best maps in Ultimate Doom
I don't think any map in Doom 2 can beat those.
>>339153954
Yeah, I can hardly drum up the enthusiasm to play it
It's the Fallout 2 to Fallout 1. More of everything but of less quality. Doom 1 and Fallout 1 are minimal but essentially as close to perfect as a game can get, the sequels are good but unfocused and inconsistent.
>>339152047
>It's another anon on /v/ talking shit about Doom II's level design without actually playing the game episode
The only objectively bad maps you listed were Downtown and Catacombs, maybe Factory. The fact that you didn't explain any reasoning behind any of the maps you listed makes me believe you picked a few maps out of a hat and called them shit.
Why do people on /v/ constantly feel the need to talk shit about games they've obviously never played? Is it to feel smart? Is it for (You)s?
>>339156180
Perfect Hatred is literally perfect. Best use of cacodemons ever.
>>339156824
Heretic is a better Doom 1 than Doom 1.
>not liking tricks & traps
What's wrong with you?
I don't like Doom II as much as the first one, but that map was stupid fun.
>>339157101
>oh look a bunch of imps far away
>shotgun them
>10 cacodemons float down from the rafters
>a Cyberdemon in the distance wakes up
>>339157190
Not with that ridiculous damage spread it's not
>>339156180
wtf is wrong with you?
>>339152047
but those were some of the most FUN maps, boy.
>>339156180
What. Thy Flesh Consumed had literally the best maps in the game. E4M2 was fucking baller.
>tricks and traps
>bad
Looks like you got tricked
>>339156180
>hating E4
Pleeeebbbbb
>>339157789
I'd like to see a H-Doom reboot in that style and not generic anime girls with hooves.
>>339157472
it is the kind of map you find in nonserious fanmods
>>339158231
>I'm a huge furry faggot
how many of you have beaten all of doom1 and 2 with pistol starts
be honest anon
Everyone knows Downtown is a shit
>>339158358
I never even took the time to try.
I beat the game the normal way and went straight to wads forever
>>339152047
>not including the chasm
>>339153241
Fuck you I finished ultimate doom UV pistol spawn and it was great except episode 4. Doom II is bullshit for the majority of the game
>>339153954
I could barrely contain my disappointment at that one
>Tricks and Traps
Never played this game before. What kind of traps does it have there?
>>339158696
Tricky ones.
>>339158096
E4's quality really fluctuates.
E4M5, M7 and M8 are all really good.
M4 is really bad, like laughably easy
M1, M2 and M6 are very hard
M3 and M9 are ok, perhaps boring.
>>339158861
but are the traps cute?
>>339152047
You can thank Sandy "The Mormon Madman" Petersen
>>339158358
The games were designed around pistol start. It doesn't change a whole lot other than not being able to have a minigun or rocket launcher 90% of the time.
>>339158696
there's a part where you're trapped in the room with demons until the doors open
there's rooms where you pick up items and a steady stream of demons teleport in until they're all dead
some tricks: A room with one Cyberdemon and 10 Barons of hell and an invincibility sphere
Cacodemons come out of holes in the wall once you fire in a room
>yfw DOOM's gameplay was based solely on this map
>>339152047
Yfw gamespot gave this game a 6/10 in 2010 because it had "antiquated map design and controls"
>>339158696
>What kind of traps does it have there?
platforms quickly falling into an inescapable pit of acid at the very end of the level.
A shit ton of pain elementals.
>>339152047
>not including nirvana and the chasm
??????
Chasm has a horribly annoying gimmick thorough the level and Nirvana is just a nonsensical piece of shit
>>339152047
romero did almost nothing, that's what went wrong
>>339159226
this
he was barely involved in doom 2's map design whereas in doom 1 he designed nearly all of episode 1
>>339152047
I wish I could play the first Doom with the super shotty and Doom 2 enemies
what the fuck is wrong with those maps?
>>339158616
...so posting these was OK yesterday, but not today?
>>339159516
You can in the PS1 version of Doom
We can all agree that the Archvile is bullshit right?
>>339159632
Mods aren't always in every single thread.
>>339159728
Only when he's supporting Revenants and Mancubi. Or chaingunners.
>>339152047
This>>339152251
NewDoom babies/shills please die. Doom discussion belongs in VR.
NotDoom(2016) belongs on reddit.
>>339152047
Talking shit about the better, more fast paced and upgraded version of Doom, damn op, dont need to shit post right after you discovered Doom just by seeing the new game yesterday.
>>339159728
only in very large groups.
They're usually pretty easy to dispatch with the rocket launch, bfg or plasma rifle.
Even the SSG is a decent choice due their long attack time and the SSG can stun them enough.
>>339159728
The question is, why did id rename them to the generic "Summoners"?
>>339159948
>implying /vr/ likes Doom II
>>339159948
Sounds like granpa needs a compress for his owie old back.
>>339159728
let me fix my post
"the archvile is bullshit at range in the open"
>>339159948
take a moment to kill yourself, then get back to me.
Doom, Doom 2, Doom 3, Doom 4orever, shits all good, each unique, all fun.
>>339160058
WHY????
https://youtu.be/xUFyZ_DqIkM?t=20
>>339160332
>doom 2
>unique
you what?
>>339160585
many new enemies, one new weapon, totally different maps from doom1
sounds pretty unique
>>339152047
only bad levels there are factory and downtown. nice meme though.
doom 2 > doom
>>339152251
I agree, OP basically listed all my favorite levels. The level design is what make me prefer Doom 2 over the original.
>>339152047
Yeah, its not like the first doom has good maps only in shareware episode or anything.
>>339161169
>implying episode 2's levels weren't good
>>339158696
these ones
>>339154475
Not my all time favourite but it's around the top for sure, and I still can't be assed to go further than the Pit. Doom 2 really is a hassle to play. I'm a sucker for pretty maps like the Back to Saturn X series, and I'm not really good at shooters in general, so I can't really say I enjoy Doom 2 or Plutonia.
>>339161297
> tfw you watch 4 hour stream of her and her girlfriend just to find out that both of them dicks dont work
JUST
>>339157472
This. Tricks and traps is fun as fuck.
>>339161510
;_;
good doom 2 > good doom 1 > bad doom 1 > bad doom 2
![...[376]591453667934113.gif](https://i.imgur.com/YiHas7E.gif "...[376]591453667934113.gif")
>>339161510
>both of them dicks dont work
wut
>>339161297
>her
>girlfriend
>dicks
>>339159126
Holy fuck, fuck that acid pit at the end. Fuck it with a capitol FUCK
>>339157032
I've probably played doom for far longer than you faggot. Most of Doom II's map are objectively shit compared to Doom. This isn't debatable. Doom II still wins overall because of custom wads so suck it up
>>339153451
How does that explain a Doom 2 difference when Sandy made the majority of Doom 1 maps as well?
>>339162885
hormones kill your erections
>>339158993
>pistol start
>It doesn't change a whole lot other than not being able to have a minigun or rocket launcher 90% of the time
That's already a huge difference, and for people that are skilled players, it's more like starting ever level with IDFA, not to mention the health and ammo bonuses. There are a ton of maps that change drastically when played from a pistol start, especially in Doom 2, and I think it's one of the major reasons people say the level design sucks because all they notice is the ugly level shapes when they're blasting through with tons of ammo and health.
The arch-vile in MAP16: Suburbs is a pain in the ass if you start with the pistol. If you come with a SSG and RL, he's a joke.
Route order becomes way more important in maps like Tricks & Tracks and Downtown because you are desperate for supplies. Even Refueling Base, an otherwise straightforward Doom 1-style map, is way more threatening when you're begging for a shotgun at the beginning. These are not small changes.
>>339152047
I liked The Pit
But I agree that Doom 2 had shitty map design
>>339163975
I agree but there's literally a shotgun in a secret wall at spawn in Refueling Base
>>339164214
>in a secret
That's kind of the point. What kind of a shitty "secret" is a shotgun unless you're playing from a pistol start? I think there's a box of shells too but otherwise you don't have to care about it at all.
>>339159126
That retarded acid pit ruined coop games.
>>339152047
Until the internet I never actually knew Doom II takes place on Earth. It literally felt like map pack for Doom 1, everything looks the same.
>play DOOM
>get too obsessive about finding all the secrets to have fun rushing through levels
Im not sure if im cut out for this
>>339152047
>gimmick maps are bad
nice meme
The only truly bad maps are the ones where they shit lava/acid all over the map and it's basically a game of race around from hazmat suit to hazmat suit
>>339164895
There's a teleporter that opens when someone goes through the door, so the map can still be completed in coop even if the guy that runs fucks it up.
>>339165804
Damn, Doom looks so weird without viewbob on.
Currently playing through BTSX Episode 1 right now. Epic wad, using the enhanced music wad as well.
>>339158993
>having an RL 90% of the time is a small change
Everyone on /v/ that tries to talk about Doom's level design should make a map. And not because you have to make a great map to judge another one, but you will understand a lot more about enemy placement and ammo/health balance if you try to do it yourself. And then plop an RL and blue armor at the start of your level and see how it completely fucks up the design.
>>339163290
Most of Sandy's maps were just finishing what Tom Hall had already made.
The maps he made entirely on his own are mostly in episode 3, and that's easily the worst one.
>>339168109
>Most
No.
Is NuDoom canon?
Doom>2>>3>44M
My opinion is superior, and everybody else is wrong
>>339152047
Personally I liked all levels from Doom II.
>>339170226
People will tell you that it makes all wads canon ebin but that fanwank is as stupid as "chim is the console"
>>339170684
At best it ties the official releases together in a sense.
>>339161169
The first 3 episodes are all pretty good but E4 is hit or miss on some levels
>>339170684
>it makes all wads canon
As in, every single Doom WAD ever released or just the official ones?
>>339173294
All of them
>>339161059
The new enemies weren't even that good.
Chaingun Guy is absolutely obnoxious, Archviles are the worst balanced enemy in DOOM history, Hell Knights should have had a different head or something at least for fucks sake, and Mancubi are just fat fucks that are just stronger Revenants.
Honestly, the only decent enemies they added were Arachnotrons, Revenants and Pain Elementals, everything else was boring or incongruous to the difficulty of the game
>>339152047
>the crusher
>>339158358
Every single one.
If you are not a child, this should be standard.
Currently working my way through Ancient Aliens.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ChXFomq6E5Q
>>339152047
Tricks and Traps is the greatest level known to mankind.
>>339173917
I don't see why everyone complains about chaingun guy. He just forces you to change your target priority.
And archviles aren't that difficult dude, you realize they literally can't hit you if there's the slightest bit of cover between you and them? Learn to move and use the map to your advantage.
>>339173616
So, some inexperienced 13 year old's first map and Terry WADs are canon?
>>339155404
Modern games are more based on cinematics, story and graphics than gameplay and custom content. However, the new DOOM game's snapmap is a step in the right direction, I guess, you can make decent content without being a PC mod whiz. Now they just need to work on it a lot, and they said they will, so I'm sure it'll be a properly good mod tool in a couple year's time
>>339174601
>I don't see why everyone complains about chaingun guy
>mfw I prefer DOOM 4 to DOOM 2
>DOOM 1 is still my favorite game everDOOM 2 had an earbleeding soundtrack so I could never get into it and most of the new enemies are complete bullshit.
>>339175503
I disagree completely, all the new monsters fit really well into the Doom style, and soundtrack is not as good as the original, but still good. You've played the games on at least Hurt Me Plenty, right?
>>339175980
I always play on Ultra Violence. To me DOOM 2 was nothing more than a shitty map pack. For fuck sakes it doesn't even have Episodes.
>>339175012
Just cheese em back
>>339175503
Doom 2 soundtrack isn't bad, it's just not very metal like the first one. More like some kind of weird elevator music
>>339176125
All the episodes are rolled into one
>>339176260
>All the episodes are rolled into one
This is a huge flaw for me. When I play DOOM 1 and beat an episode that's time for me to stop, take a break, grab a beer, take a piss and come back refreshed and ready to slay more demons.
DOOM 1 has perfect pacing and level design. DOOM 2 is a really rushed cash in sequel, which ruined a lot of the atmosphere and pacing of the original. Hell even the Super Shotgun ruined a bunch of the fun.
>>339154475
The fuck? I am new to Doom and even I was able to do both Thy Flesh Consumed and Doom 2 on Ultra Violence.
Just run past enemies if you don't have ammo.
>>339176538
This from a porno?
>>339176538
Doom 2 had text walls every ten levels so you could tell when an "episode" ended.
>>339176970
Doesn't matter how many text walls it had. Doesn't fix the shitty level layouts and monster placement.
>>339177063
The layouts are perfect. Its like a nintendo game. It assumes you already mastered the first game.
>>339176538
Yo, I'm looking for the source but I can't find it
>>339177190
Are you sure you played DOOM 2 and not plutonia experiment? Because that shit has good levels.
>>339176797
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UIaubNk0e58
Found it. Not porn.
>>339176743
Not because it's difficult you idiot. Because the maps are boring as fuck. I've finished them out of sequence by joining random ZD coop servers every now and then and messing around with idclev, but haven't done the whole game in one save file
