Do you agree /v/? Is DotA a relic of the past? Should it evolve to be something more modern?
>>338947071
it already did
its called Dota 2
im not entirely sure whats archaic about a high skill ceiling unless he's just a gigantic casual
>stein
dota is the only assfaggot that is even almost worth playing though
>>338947071
>I'm really bad and I want the game to be easier
>MOBA design
what a cuck
>>338947071
Nuke every third world country on earth and watch dota improve its overall quality by 150%
>>338947071
>>>plebbit
There's been plenty of "updated" "MOBAS" in these last 13 years, but only two of them are still worth giving a shit about and one is DotA itself. I wonder why?
most of what i like about DOTA 2 was gutted for all of the ASSFAGGOTS, shows what I know about MOBA design, i guess
>playing any assfaggots
no thank you. I'll just stick to single player games, or multiplayer games where you don't need to rely on other people to succeed. any game where you yourself cannot win entirely on your own merit is shit. End of story, case closed.
>>338947071
>Many things that SUCK for your victim and also don't feel very satisfying for you. Mana burn, losing gold on death, etc.
opinion discarded
>>338947071
Who is this man and why should I give his opinions any further thought
>>338947071
Literally just ask him " Such as?" and watch him flounder about trying to give a real answer.
>>338947342
>two of them
Dota 2 isn't even the best MOBA on Steam
>>338947071
dota 2 is literally the best moba on the market currently (not that thats saying much)
Literal Jewish cuck
Of course it was. Everything we've learned about MOBA design is "stop making MOBAs"
>Many things that SUCK for your victim
things should suck for the victim, they are the victim.
>>338947451
Someone who worked at Riot Games.
>>338947542
not after abortion that was .86
>MOBA
it's called ASSFAGGOTS you retards
MOBA is a term Riot came up with so they don't call their game ASSFAGGOTS in advertising.
>>338947071
>pander to me
fuck off, mr. shitstain
>>338947491
Theres been way more than 2
Hell I can even name 3 dead ones on the top of my head
LOTR , Dawngate and Infinite Crisis
>game mechanics made for a specific purpouse are unfun and toxic
LEL developers everyone
>>338947158
>>338947189
>>338947303
>>338947470
TURN RATE IS RETARDED, and thats the only reason LoL has more players, and thats the reason why dotafags thinks his game is so deep
>>338947812
moshi moshi baito desu
>>338947071
How can it be a relic of the past when it's fairly new and super popular?
>>338947719
I still think it's moba, freind.
All the latest Dota updates have added progressively more 'modern' mechanics, though, such as cooldown reduction and spell scaling
Maybe coincidental but it is also on a downwards trend the likes of which it hasn't seen in the past
>>338947903
>Dota
>fairly new
>>338947903
in terms of video games dota is fucking ancient m8
>>338947428
That's literally any team based multiplayer game though
>>338947903
>Jon Stein
>Associate Product Manager
>Riot Games
>April 2015 – Present (1 year 2 months)Greater Los Angeles Area
What a completely fair and unbiased opinion, by an independent neutral third party.
>>338947998
DotA 2 is fairly new though. It not only introduces tons of new mechanics DotA didn't have, but it also changes a lot of mechanics that DotA had.
>>338947071
It's a "literally-who" episode
>>338947342
>There's been plenty of "updated" "MOBAS" in these last 13 years, but only two of them are still worth giving a shit about and one is DotA itself. I wonder why?
Because there's yet to be an actual "updated" entry in the genre.
Seriously, look at all the assfaggots titles from the past two decades. You obviously have Dota 1 and the rest of the WC3/BW custom maps that started it
Then you have HoN, LoL, and Dota 2 which are either 1:1 ports of Dota 1 or self-proclaimed sequels
Then literally every other title rehashes LoL with virtually zero innovation, updates, changes, or advancements in the genre.
Smite and Gigantic are just LoL with a slightly different camera.
Dawngate is LoL with a slightly different jungle.
Strife is literally just LoL.
The same thing is happening with assfaggots that happened with MMOs and FPSs; one stupidly successful game (LoL) has stagnated the genre to the point of no single developer ever trying to break the mold with something new, just like how WoW killed MMOs and CoD killed FPSs.
>>338948123
Huh? Im sure the parity between both versions exist
anyhow Dota 2 is just Dota 1 with match making and leaver penalties, the only 2 things the game really needed
>>338948157
HOTS is an "updated" MOBA
>>338947071
>Do you agree that Dota 2 has never been updated and plays exactly like Dota 1?
It doesn't matter if I agree or not, anyone who's ever played both knows how different they are.
Also:
>MOBA design
>>338948157
Plenty of games in the genre have tried new things, but nothing absolutely major. Despite that, every game in the genre outside of Dota 2 and LoL has either died or failed to achieve any kind of actual success.
>stein
>>338948140
He is an unbiased third party observer making neutral comments on DOTA2.
why are people who work at riot the biggest faggots in the game industry?
>>338947987
I dont think Icefrog works well as a designer outside of the WC3 engine, those mechanics are bad on their own but DOTA is turning into a directionless clusterfuck
DOTA2 plays just like any other MOBA. You're all just projecting because your precious little hacked together pile of shit genre sucks and you have a popular target to hate on when it actually accurately reflects your entire game genre.
>>338948393
Pure coincidence
>>338948453
I don't think Icefrog works as a designer at all, he is a mascot, and his name is used as a brand.
>>338948453
*aren't bad on their own
>>338948283
You're absolutely right and I forgot to mention that.
HOTS is garbage, but it's a really good example of how much flexibility the genre has in terms of game design, of what would have happened if LoL didn't kill the genre.
>>338948360
Name ten that can't be described as
>LoL but with a gimmick
There has been absolutely no attempt on the part of developers to improve on the assfaggots genre. 99% of games since LoL have just been cash-in clones.
>>338948453
I legit think Icefrog has either been completely booted from his own game or is being bullied into making shitty changes
>>338948512
I also accept the name Fast Action Real Time Strategy. MOBA is a garbage name.
>>338948501
He's actually a person
Who else would Valve get DOTA from
>>338947158
It is still based mostly on W3 mechanichs that weren't thought to be used on a DOTA style of game. DOTA and DOTA 2 are basically stuck in W3 era and will ever be until something comes and disrupt the shit out of them.
>>338948157
honestly i liked smite just because it had keyboard controls, rts controls feel really fucking finnicky to me when you're only using a single unit.
>Reminder that LoLbabies can't have voice chat in their pissant, dumbed down piece of shit game because of pic related
How cuckolded do you have to be to unironically play League of Legends?
>>338948606
The worst thing about HOTS is that unlocking heroes takes forever
>>338948657
I didn't say he isn't a person, I said he isn't in charge of DOTA2, and is only paid to stick around so his name can be attached to patch notes.
>>338948773
To say that Smite is "Just LoL with a different perspective" isn't doing it justice
>>338948393
wait so he went from doing QA to literally being at a top position impacting the development of the game.
He must either be really good or riot are just fucking dumb.
Why is nobody mentioning awesomenauts? That game is better than lol in my book
>>338948790
I highly doubt that, I doubt anyone at Valve is actually good at Dota 2, and while Icefrog has put some questionable changes, some of his changes actually work out better than the community predicts
>>338948986
Bruno works for Valve, and he was good at the game.
>>338948986
Supposedly Gaben had played 1k Dota 2 games before it even launched. But that might just be marketing talk.
>>338948651
I favor the term Dotalike, it's descriptive and everyone knows about Dota, unlike AoS.
>>338947071
So, what HAVE we learned about... MOBA design in the last 13 years?
>>338948932
Awesomenauts plays more like a platformer in my opinion
>>338949101
That Asians will eat shit like LoL right up.
>>338947071
I hate Dota2 but that guy sounds pretentious as fuck. Literally every DOTA like just apes the same gameplay and the whole "what we learned" shit that he's talking about translates into "how we made it more idiot friendly and casual"
Again I fucking despise DOTA and hate that it's effectively killing PC games that could be good, but fuck that guy
>>338948890
Except it is.
Were you not there for the alpha when the items, numbers, and some names were directly ripped from League of Legends? They weren't being subtle about it at all.
>>338948932
awesomenauts doesn't have more than 20 hours work of playtime in it
platform games just dont really work as competitive multiplayer
>>338947071
>TFW in the past 13 years only thing that has been learned is trying to reinvent the wheel only makes it harder to turn.
>>338948610
>how to make magic dmg dealers not completely dogshit later in the game
make magic dmg scale a bit, so a caster hero can snowball, either way late game carries still dont care about magic dmg due to pipe and bkb and overall HP pool. Also maybe 25% cooldown reduction that isnt game breaking
>how to reward map awareness and give players a tool to avoid ganks or make them more succesful
a scan to show if there is an enemy or not, doesnt give vision, doesnt show how many enemies, has a long enough cooldown
>trying to fix some issues with the game and experiment with new mechanics
HURR DURR ICEFROG IS GON MAD DURRR WE LEL NOW
>>338949072
His favorite hero was Bloodseeker
Its marketing talk
>>338949065
Hes probably Icefrog
>>338949335
>His favorite hero was Bloodseeker
Eeeehhh? Pretty sure that on the initial interviews during the closed beta of the game he said he likes Sand King the most.
I remembered it, since SK was also my favorite hero as well.
>>338949205
It controls better, for one thing
WASD is superior to click-to-move, and allows for things like penalties to movement for shooting or backpedaling, rather than necessitating "turn-rates" or mandating that all heroes use Flash
>>338949335
no it wasn't it's sand king
>>338948606
HotS
Super Monday Night Combat
Battleborn
Smite
Gigantic
Demigod
Awesomenauts
AirMech
Pocket Fleet
Guilty Gear 2 Overture
That's 10 that all tried something new and either ended up dead or just never had any huge success.
>>338949247
They reinvented a car into a bicycle and their only argument why it's better is: "because more people use it".
>>338948776
>load into a game of dota
>some subhuman start shouting some russian bullshit
>take 2 seconds to click the mute button
>later do the same to the other toxic asshole
>the other 2 guys are ok
>still have the option to leave their text chat unmuted and see chat wheel and pings.
>when theyre muted they cant spam pings either
WEW
>>338949463
I could have sworn I saw an interview where he exclusively played Bloodseeker then Icefrog told him to random every game
>>338949637
>when theyre muted they cant spam pings either
You can't spam pings either way, iirc.
>>338949312
t. Proud Compendium Owner
>>338949637
>unironically using the word toxic
>>338947071
Yes.
>>338949643
https://www.reddit.com/r/DotA2/comments/1zkkq4/relevant_dota_qas_from_gabe_newells_ama/
>Do you play Dota 2 a lot? What's your favorite hero? Have you ever been raged at by a teammate?
-1) Yup 2) Sand King / Random 3) Yes
>>338949564
SMNC, I loved that game, no idea why it didnt blow up
I also have no idea why I stopped playin it, Id love to start another match up
>>338949723
>has beard and or glasses
now that's not fair man
>>338949704
unless you mute the fucker he can spam ping you m9
>>338949723
Did I trigger you by using the banned word?
Substitute it with "flamer", "rager" "general asshole. I apologise for breaking your safe space
Dota 2 is the best because it has custom games.
>>338950028
>/pol/ propaganda
>fair or sensible
hehehehehheeeeheeheheehhehhehe
>>338950056
>>338950114
>it's a 17 year old nu male incel cuckolds raid /v/ episode
>>338949723
>There is one UND PRECISELY VUN definition of masculinity and anyone who strays from it is badwrong.
wew lad
>>338949825
Pay to win.
MNC was better.
>>338949723
>wears glasses
god damn these fucking faggots, i am a stereotype now because my eyes don't fucking work.
yeah people fucking love Heroes of the Storm, the most up to date and entertaining moba of them all!
>>338950236
Sorry anon, but if you wear glasses of have a beard you are a SJW. Admit it.
>>338950189
probably why
I liked Megabeth tho
![group13f3d8f0b1d534d2ce312263653c55944fd26b03e0a71[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/XmUAlPA.jpg "group13f3d8f0b1d534d2ce312263653c55944fd26b03e0a71[1].jpg")
>>338949723
Isn't the one that's in the top-left corner, with the ridiculous hat, Jack from Rooster-teeth? Is he an SJW too? If that's not him, holy fuck do they look similar
>>338950176
>incel
Huh? Is that another epic new meme from pol?
>>338948265
No parity exists anymore. Some abilities work differently in Dota 1 because of engine limitations
Actually I love the game, but getting yelled at by teammates because of one awkward death or because that stack decided I'm the loss scapegoat, even in a supposedly not serious mode like unranked, is not exactly my idea of having a good time.
I love the game, I really do, but I guess I'm just not which skinned enough to suffer through that shit to get the good parts.
>>338950176
>>338949723
why is lobos on this, he is based as fuck
>>338947812
must be autism or some incredible insight
>>338950369
Sounds like some nu-male term for being a 4chan poster.
>>338950392
>click the mute button
>go about your business
wew that was hard
>>338948776
The most bare bones ping system and lack of voice chat in league pretty much tells the player "You don't need good communication to win at this game, go nuts"
>>338950494
>go blog about it on your cucklr about how you were offended on /v/ today
I just want to discuss video games, apparently that enough to trigger your ass
>>338950392
If it's anything like league just mute everyone at game start, they never have anything useful to say anyways.
I agree, there's a lot of stupid shit that Dota 2 does for the sake of legacy to a WC3 mod rather than actual good design. Some examples include:
>minimap default in the bottom-left corner where's it's more likely to be accidentally clicked
>no full ban/pick draft mode where players can pick their own characters
>no enemy manabars (adding them would actually prompt players to play smarter and punish those who waste their mana)
>no river runes on the minimap (adding them would encourage proper warding and create more fights for the runes)
It's rather annoying when people act like icefrog is infallible.
>>338947694
as awful as dota can or will get it will never be as bad as current league especially with its f2p model or any other moba where you need to pay for heroes
HoN had a lot of good ideas that reduced the metagame aspects while keeping some really high paced gameplay with a serious skill ceiling
Too bad S2 was shit, and lately the game has been doing some really strange stuff
They should get with the times and charge for characters. Everyone else is doing it.
>>338950468
>Dated but or had relationships, but not had sex
A cuck that puts women on a pedestal is nu-male 101.
>>338950553
>using the T-word on /pol/'s safe space playground
Oh no! Don't do this, they get very upset.
>>338950642
You sound like a faggot.
"Every time I get back into Tetris I'm reminded this game was designed without everything we've learned about puzzle design in the last 32 years."
>>338950642
They use the same terms as SJWs as far as I'm concerned
>>338950592
>minimap default in the bottom-left corner where's it's more likely to be accidentally clicked
can be changed in menu
>no river runes on the minimap (adding them would encourage proper warding and create more fights for the runes)
wonder why this is a a thing in spectator mode
>>338950592
you cant be serious, jesus i thought these people didnt exist, they were just made up but here you go.
>>338948069
Well done anon, you figured it out. Any game where you need a team is fucking garbage designed to reward social interactivity more than skill at the game.
>>338950725
>"Every time I get back into Doom I'm reminded this game was designed without everything we've learned about FPS design in the last 22 years."
>a discussion about MOBA's descends into far right /pol/ shitposting
Fuck this place.
>>338950592
You can switch the map though. don't see the problem there. and when you click on enemies you can see their Mana and can even Alt Ping it so you send a team message "Hero has X% Health and X% mana"
I have not played a single game in the past 1000 hours or so of dota where no one gets both runes that spawn every 2 minutes. I can't even remember a time where no one got the runes.
>>338950293
fug its true i can feel the urge to blame white people for the problems of other races and then demand that we degrade ourselves and give them monetary reparations to make things right
gg boys the glasses done me in
>>338950592
>minimap default in the bottom-left corner where's it's more likely to be accidentally clicked
Literally never had this issue. What's your aspect ratio?
>no enemy manabars
Agreed.
>no river runes on the minimap
Placing them on the minimap wouldn't work, because they'd add clutter and obscure player pips.
>>338950851
the sooner you vote trump the sooner we leave you all alone.
Dota 2 is a relic. It's at an extreme end of the design, being rigid and difficult to learn. The other end is hots, being way too watered down and casual.
I think LoL is a happy medium.
No matter what, there's no reason to learn more than one moba. The learning curve on all of them is just too steep to be worth doing it more than once
Just stick with what you got
>>338950391
>No parity exists
>abilities work differently
>Warcraft 3 engine
>source engine
ONE OF THESE THINGS ARE NOT LIKE THE OTHER
please go back to reddot
>>338951115
>LoL is a happy medium
kek
>>338950642
>people associate a term with /pol/
>call them out when someone uses the /pol/ term
>people associate a term with tumblr
>call them out when someone uses the tumblr term
All I'm seeing is equality.
>>338947071
>Look at lol
>They did an incredibly shitty copy of CS and Dota's loot system
>A bunch of half implemented systems over the years
Anyone who works there and pushed out their retarded mastery system in its current form is a joke.
>>338950592
>>minimap default in the bottom-left corner where's it's more likely to be accidentally clicked
What the fuck, pal? How are you even doing that? And you barely ever use your mouse because hotkeys are a thing.
>>no full ban/pick draft mode where players can pick their own characters
What the hell are you on about?
>>no enemy manabars (adding them would actually prompt players to play smarter and punish those who waste their mana)
This is so you don't confidently stride in and just shit on things. Its up to you, the player, to keep aware of when enemies last used attacks in skirmishes, or at least play it safe, skirting the edges of their ranges to see who kicks it off first.
>>no river runes on the minimap (adding them would encourage proper warding and create more fights for the runes)
They spawn at definite times. If you haven't learned them after your first few hours, something is wrong with you.
>>338950725
>"Every time I get back into Super Turbo I'm reminded this game was designed without everything we've learned about fighting game design in the last 22 years."
>>338948893
As a QA I resent that.
Also, he's associate manager of eSports products, not the actual game.
>>338947812
Nobody even talks about fucking turn rate besides League players. It's actually the reason melee carries are viable and not useless pieces of shit in League.
Granted, it's still possible to kite in Dota, albeit more difficult. It might even requireteamwork
I took the bait
>guy says something about dota 2
>he works for riot
wow
>>338951195
/pol/ and /tumblr/ share terms though.
>>338950863
>don't see the problem there. and when you click on enemies you can see their Mana and can even Alt Ping it so you send a team message "Hero has X% Health and X% mana"
You can, but why not just make it below the healthbar? It's not like it's hidden and you can only see enemy manabars with a certain item and shit. It's not a game mechanic either, it's a UI issue. Sure, a player can click and then alt the info in the chat, but is there any reason to make him to do it over just adding a manabar along with the healthbar? You can get used to it, sure, but adding unnecessary actions doesn't really add any complexity to the game.
>>338950863
>and when you click on enemies you can see their Mana
Not him, but this is really just another click to get the information the game should just show you by default
There's probably mods for it, too
I think he's talking about esports and microtransactions.
>>338947071
>MOBA
>Design
>Thought
>>338948118
Underrated
Dota fighting is more like the original Star Wars light saber fights, tactical and one wrong move can prove to be fatal.
LoL is like the prequels tons of flashy moves but little substance. I guess why the casual gamer would like LoL more but anyone with a brain should see which game has the better design.
>>338950725
>"Every time I get back into Chess I'm reminded this game was designed without everything we've learned about board game design in the last 1466 years"
>>338950524
Dotafag here, voice chat to strangers is useless because all players screen your skill based on your accent or call you annoying. I've experienced this at every MMR up to 4k.
Typing is just better, sadly. It's also easier for non-native English speakers to understand.
I don't like the limited mana of DOTA2. I'm not talking more mana regen, just more total mana.
early-midgame is LOLnoSkills
>>338951547
Yeah that'd be HoN which successfully combined both aspects
>>338951606
Its about using your skills and consumables carefully not spamming them like a a brainded zombie. Your hero is lvl 5 you can expect him the be as strong as when he is 25 with items.
>>338951115
>Switched from SMNC to League to Dota
Dota is just better. I wasn't great at League (gold) but I just didn't see the point. All skillshots or gap closers all the time, and Support became an extreme clusterfuck when they made wards like 2 minutes long.
>>338951367
>>338951404
I think i'm too far deep. I legit can't defend it or fight for it. I've played it for so long now it's just second nature to me and I think nothing of it.
>>338951204
>pick/ban where people pick their heroes
Probably doesnt like the captain picking in Captain mode. I never really saw it as a problem though
>>338951195
This guy gets it. anons are virtually the same as Tumblr or Reddit users and can't argue against it.
>>338950592
>no enemy manabars (adding them would actually prompt players to play smarter and punish those who waste their mana)
While true, not having mana bars over enemy heroes makes heroes who are out of mana still threatening in fights. At a glance it's hard to tell if an enemy is out of mana and the only way to be sure is to click them or have a team mate tell you, but during a fight even a coordinated team has trouble keeping track of this.A hero that relies heavily on its mana, like a support with stuns or a large nuke, will still be feared and can play around that lack of knowledge.
>>338951691
Too bad they shit the bed during dota 2's beta
Game is deader than dead for good reasons. It was the best dota clone for a few years though
>>338947470
>60min.+ games of mostly creep farming and shallow gameplay, mostly with just 4 abilities that also go on CD
Protip: variety isn't depth.
>>338951204
>>What the hell are you on about?
CM sucks for pugs
>>338951764
I have the comparison because I played HoN for ages before switching over to doto for a few hundred games because I got bored of the former, and there wasn't a single instance of me thinking 'man, this game is enriched because mana bars are not instantly obvious'
>>338951764
same, Im used to poppin in the woods, eating a mango then surprising my enemy
I want to perserve that feeling
>>338951879
They done fucked up so hard it's almost impressive
>>338948283
>>338948606
HOTS is better than DOTA. See >>338951948
>pick clinkz
>get orchid
>win the game
What other heroes are as easy as clinkz ? I'm tired of trying to work for my wins only to lose 5-50 kills because my whole team is retarded, me included.
>>338948890
smite is a rip off of BLOODLINE CHAMPIONS when it comes to the movement and aiming, but none of you know about that game. faggots.
>>338951948
>>338952083
t. a complete retard
>>338952083
HotS isfun
It just will never be popular since its ass for ESPORTS.
>>338952217
Bloodline champions was the tits
I was too casual for it
>>338952245
>
Your argument.
>>338952261
>HotS is fun
But it's not. It's fights are slow, unimpactful and dull - the complete opposite of fun.
>>338951553
10/10
>>338947071
>more modern
empty statement at its finest
>>338952291
Do what I did and play Ranid Assassin
that piece of shit was amazingly broken
>>338947340
That's Twitter dipshit
>>338951948
You just described every moba and not just Dota though
>>338952356
If you genuinely believe that Hots is a good game, not to mention a better game than Dota 2 you've either never played both, in which case you're uneducated or you're just baiting, either way there's no argument to be had here.
>>338952213
>Clinkz, easy wins
Sure if the enemy team doesnt carry detection or stuns
Ursa in that case aswell
>>338952373
>YOU ARENT HAVING FUN
Literal autism right there.
>>338952213
I've been on a big omni and oracle binge lately supporting the fuck out of my games. last 38 games 6 were losses. In terms of just actual easy heroes to play Viper, Huskar, Bristle and troll come to mind.
>>338951948
Really? Players that draft hard carries make the game take longer and a significant portion (>75% of players) follow a more strict pub meta game? Surely this is poor game design.
You'll be happy to know the average game length is about 35 minutes and it has changed drastically over the years. That's the thing that Dota has over league: variety, not only of spells and shit but the patches haven't been balance logs lately, but massive changes.
>>338947324
+1
Nuke all the Esteban's and Dimitry's
>>338952562
Except HOTS. ..Which is fine.
>>338952601
Or I just have good taste.
>>338952630
I'm not saying that he's not having fun, I'm saying that it's the complete of opposite of what's fun to me. Are you an actual autist?
>>338951367
Only reason I can muster is that it differentiates quickly and easily between enemies and teammates in a clustered teamfight. Some spells have different effects when cast on allies vs. enemies. I prefer the current set-up, because you have to click on them to see their items anyways.
It gives the support another thing to do while managing the macrogame.
loser with 3122 hours in Dota 2 here ( 3.4k mmr)
dota is inherently outdated because it was a direct port of the WC3 mod, games like HoN are also outdated as fuck
LoL/smite/genericMOBAcashin are more streamlined and easier to get into
>>338951115
The learning curve is literraly learning "what does that guy do?" they all play the fucking same
>>338952630
>YOU ARE HAVING FUN
Literal autism right there.
Someone else can't fun just because you have fun.
>>338952213
please specify that youre new to the game or your mmr is bellow 4k so people dont get the wrong impression about dota
>>338952681
>the average game length is about 35 minutes
https://www.reddit.com/r/DotA2/comments/2tgyk7/what_is_your_average_length_of_a_dota2_game/cnz6tz0
More like 43.
Heroes of the Storm is the least shit assfaggots
>>338947812
no it isn't, some heroes would be absolutely broken without turn rates. DOTA is built on these tiny variances between heroes, which is why it's 100x more compelling than other assfaggots where most shit is just binary
>>338952681
It's not team fighting that makes it take longer. It's shitty, creep farm design.
>>338951948
you use meme arrows to quote people
>not
>like
>this
>>338952883
This might be hard to grasp but Dota actually requires skills AND thought (meaning a good understanding of the game, hero interactions, and leadership regardless of role) to advance in MMR.
So people who say they like HOTS are just joking, right?
>We live in the universe where DotA became big instead of ToB or EotA or even DotS
why must we suffer
>>338952883
Easier to get into means literally nothing unless it's pretty much impossible to get into
It seems more "streamlined" because there's so much less to think about
>>338950468
>>338950369
>>338950619
No incel is a weird term used mainly by legit crazy people to describe themselves. There's some croat who has a blog about how he's incel and I remember him literally suing the government for not providing him a GF and maybe suing his mom for not fucking him. Real life r9k types use it.
>>338952925
You know Reddit has lower MMR and the lower the MMR the more gold-dependent heroes are drafted, right?
The guy that said 50 minutes is 2k. That's like, Bronze I or lower Silver in League when I played in Season 3.
>dotards btfo
>>338953086
My favorite moba for what it matters. We're gonna be shit flinging at everyone else's mobas for the next 10 years on this board. These threads are just retarded, it all comes down to personal preference.
>>338952883
>dota is inherently outdated
What does outdated even mean in gaming context you fucking retard. If its fun to play how is it outdated.
>>338953269
>Stein
I wonder who could be behind this post.
>>338952974
>Lewder girls
>Better slugs
HOW CAN OTHER ASSFAGGOTS EVEN COMPARE?
>>338953016
Actually, it's NOT team fighting that makes it take longer.
Carries can fight whenever they want. It's up to the team to choose whether they want to rice forever or fight early. I won a game in 15 minutes yesterday because we communicated and drafted accordingly.
If you experience 50 minute games every game, you're lower MMR. That sounds tongue-in-cheek, and it is slightly, but there's truth to it, man.
>>338952869
>gives the support something to do
Shit man the support is usually more important the carry in teamfights in the early to midgame
>>338950592
>minimap default in the bottom-left corner where's it's more likely to be accidentally clicked
Are you unable to control your mouse? Do you click around like a spastic retard?
>no full ban/pick draft mode where players can pick their own characters
The drafting options are fine. This is just autism
>no enemy manabars (adding them would actually prompt players to play smarter and punish those who waste their mana)
Arguments could be made for both sides. I personally don't think the other team should have any knowledge of your resources other than your hp.
>no river runes on the minimap (adding them would encourage proper warding and create more fights for the runes)
Are you too retarded to know they spawn every 2 minutes? Are you unable to ward properly? You don't even need direct vision of the spot to know it's been picked up.
>>338953280
a lot of mechanics that can be considered bugs, or limitations of the WC3 engine, were ported over to Dota2 under the guise of them being "game mechanics"
Stacking, attack animation cancelling, are the only ones off the top of my head, turn rates too I guess.
>>338953280
It's not streamlined, easy and simple, so it automatically sucks, bro! I need a game I can play while blazed out of my zone, dude. League is that game for me. I also like Bloons TD Battles, which I play while smoking a fat doober.
>>338953086
HOTS is great
It cuts most of the busywork and chaff out of the genre and distills it down to the good parts: team-fighting, and objective control to force an inevitable victory and break stalemates
Is there finally an option to center the camera to my character WITH ONLY ONE CLICK or press of a button in Dota 2?
>>338953454
>I personally don't think the other team should have any knowledge of your resources other than your hp.
Too bad they can get the info with a mouse click, then
You'd have to argue for mana tu be fully hidden for that to make much sense
>>338953448
Agreed dude. As a Support main though I'm using those alt-pings like crazy. When smoked I show mana, items, spells I think off CD and shit like that all the time. Don't get a lot of recognition for it but I know it helps the people who are looking. Carries and mid need to focus on CS, you know?
>>338953631
its always been there with spacebar
>>338953627
More importantly its lewd
>>338952213
>opponent picks clinkz
>i pick slardar
>i go 14-1-26
>clinkz goes 2-18-4
Get fucked invis cuck
"New generation" MOBAs aren't that significantly different either. They need to make money, they can't jump too far away
>>338953086
No.
It's good because it keeps things relatively simple and doesn't bog you down with lots of unnecessary shit. You can focus on the actual gameplay. Teamwork is also really important, more so than other mobas.
It's a refreshing change compared to other mobas. I used to play Dota 2 a lot of the time, clocked about 2000 hours or so. Then I tried Heroes of the Storm and I loved it and never wanted to touch Dota 2 again.
I think one key point is that games don't last too long so if you lose you don't feel disappointed that you wasted upwards of an hour (sometimes more) just to lose.
>>338953016
>pick chen
>take two tier two towers before fifteen minutes
>end up getting mek because "lol tower and gank gold"
>take rosh
>deathball down mid
>win in 25 minutes because you have 600 extra hp per hero and it's a 6v5
WOW
>>338953736
On the subjects of lewd, fuck Arcana PA in dota 2 makes my dick hard as fuck
>>338953645
Yes, they have to have vision and they have to manually select you to see your mana. Often, mana only plays a major role in the early game. Good teams don't over extended stupidly on low resources
>>338953736
>Slightly more revealing that a standard bikini
>lewd
What kind of a household where you raised in? Fuck, public beaches in South America must be literal porn-tier for you.
>>338953627
>>338953785
don't you people have overwatch threads to shill?
>>338953527
Turn rates are not a bug.
Stacking is purposeful at this point. It is not a bug or limitation and if Icefraud really wanted he could remove it to make things casual.
Cast points, attack points, and backswing are not bugs.
For fucks sake open up WC3 editor some time.
>>338953527
>Stacking
>Completely counterable option that requires game knowledge and a little bit of skill to do effectively
Shitty bug, remove it.
>Attack animation cancelling (backswings)
>Used by nobody but pros to save precious seconds from attack speed slows
Shitty bug, remove it.
>Turn rates
>The only reason melee heroes are viable with Eye of Skadi and multiple on-hit slows present
Shitty bug, remove it.
God, this game is so buggy. I'll go play league where everyone has 2 identical spells, and then most champs have shared of very similar spells and gimmicks.
>>338953527
>stacking
>attack animation cancelling
>turn rates
But these are all important why would anyone consider them "bugs" or outdated. Try playing a meele carry when you enemies can just run away with you without turn rates or instant stun you even if they were facing the other way.
Stacking camps for you mid or carry is literally a game changer. Try playing sven without ancient stacks.
So outdated mechanics are mechanics people are to stupid to utilize. Gotcha.
>>338952836
>fights are slow, unimpactful and dull
This isn't a very decent explanation. I would bet it comes from bias or not playing an interesting character.
Pros:
There's actual team fighting before 30m
Games are over in about 15-25m
There's almost no creep farming, in contrast (which is PvE)
A shitter on your team doing poorly won't necessarily lose the game because XP is distributed evenly. This is fantastic. I played a match recently of DOTA where 2 fucks fed the whole game, and it was the least fun I've had playing a MOBA.
>>338953446
>Actually, it's NOT team fighting that makes it take longer.
That's exactly what that post says.
>>338953785
>I think one key point is that games don't last too long so if you lose you don't feel disappointed that you wasted upwards of an hour (sometimes more) just to lose.
This is how we fix RTS.
>>338953631
Also, this. Holy fuck.
>>338953986
The game is only 40 dollars and it's already been 2 whole days man. They've already gotten their moneys worth you poorfag.
What the fuck is he on about?
>>338953527
>Stacking, attack animation cancelling, are the only ones off the top of my head, turn rates too I guess.
>under the guise of them being "game mechanics"
>can be considered bugs
>LIMITATIONS OF THE ENGINE
Holy fuck
Does anyone actually believe this when they look at Dota2?
This post was just mind boggling
>>338953785
I play HOTS for 20 minute casual games with friends since they don't want to learn dota and I cant stand how shitty lol is. Some of the heroes are really damn fun like memeslug and murky while others are pretty generic like Arthas.
/v/ just hates it because its not a spectator vidya and they hate actually playing games themselves.
>>338947071
There's only one other successful assfaggots and it's worse.
There are lots of unsuccessful assfaggots. One of them is almost exactly dota, but without balance for range. One of them has a camera perspective that restricts visibility and skill interaction behavior, and completely unbalanced items. The rest are in the dumpster.
The one that is successful is rife with mobility and power creep problems, and instead of focusing on designing balance, its architects simply shake up their meta by randomly changing variables every few months--and always a couple of weeks before their international competition--to make their broadcasts "exciting."
>>338954104
>Pros
>Teamfighting before 30 mins
Does LOL still only have 2 kills by the 15 min mark in pro games?
>>338954158
>Mana burn doesn't feel satisfying
What an absolute retard, holy fuck. Beyond delusional.
>>338954239
>2 kills by the 15 min mark
Thats being generous honestly
>>338954158
losing gold and mana is too hard
>>338953785
>Teamwork is more important than other mobas
So it's more important than the most important thing?
>unnecessary shit
Oh, so it's just easy.
>>338954158
>Using the word victim to describe gameplay
wew
>>338954158
>"I got hit, why I got punished for it"
>"I'm dead, why I got punished for it"
>this is average lol autist
No wonder loltard called dota a buggy game.
They can'tgit gud
>>338954158
>Losing gold on death
Jesus christ
>>338954343
Seriously, he's just showing us that League caters to feelings rather than thought.
Like, if you have to design a game around nobody being subject to punishment for risky or bad play, you're not making a game.
Chess has punishment, but fuck that stupid, archaic shit.
>>338953631
>>338954104
It's always been there retards
>Team fighting before 30m
w-what mobas don't do that?
>>338954158
>Leaving your victim piss dry of mana as AM/KoTL/Lion/PL isn't great
>Knowing that your kill on the enemy carry actually mattered by putting them back on farm
>>338954337
If it's so easy, why is everyone so awful at it?
Checkmate Dotards
>>338954182
>/v/ just hates it because its not a spectator vidya
>have to buy heroes
>new heroes cost 10k
>only while leveling you get reasonable amounts of gold (inb4 daily quets)
>fights and characters in general feel slow
>most of the time (also depending on the map) the team that gets level 10 first wins the game
>no comeback mechanics
Just my opinion man.
>>338954158
So basically
"WAAAH, THE GAME PUNISHES ME FOR BEING SHIT, WHY WONT IT CHANGE MY DIAPER"
>>338954158
Unsafe gold assigns risk to ricing. It's an excellent concept.
Mana burn whining is just people infected with a Riot meme.
>le tanks can't do anything if they are victims of mana burn
Learn how to position your stun bot you worthless mongoloid.
>>338954535
Because people who aren't retards don't play it
>>338954535
Because it is an awful game?
>>338954158
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA oh wait, he actually serious? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
>>338954182
/v/ hates it for the same reason /v/ hates LoL. It is p2notgrind with a limited hero pool.
>>338954337
Teamwork is important in HotS because you have to work together to complete objectives, push lanes, ganks enemies and attack mercenary camps.
Going solo and not helping your team with anything will result in failure.
In dota, you can go solo. In fact, you can have 5 people doing their own thing for an entire game and they'll still probably win if they pick the right heroes.
>unnecessary shit
meaning: gold, items and last-hitting, you also don't have warcraft 3 glitches that are a part of the gameplay.
Bushnell's Law.
>>338953735
>>338954525
>spacebar doesn't just center on the character, but staggers that with somewhere the fuck else
