"git gud" is not a defense for poor game design.
being bad isn't either
>>338394510
Adhereing to terrible designed games doesn't make it good
>>338394254
agreed, but neo/v/ is currently worshipping those shitty games because that's what IGN and Youtube told them to do.No point return has been passed long ago. Enjoy being back to the NES era of game design, with shit directly funneled into your mouth and angry mobs telling you it's your fault to be served shit.
>>338394254
Saying "It's bad game design!" is not a valid defence for being terrible at games
>>338394254
>git gud is bad
looks like someone needs togit gud
>>338394735
Like what?
>>338394510
>>338394829
>>338394901
>lel git gud XD
what profound argument you provided
>>338394254
If someone's argument revolves around their inability to be successful in a game then yes, they do need to git gud.
>>338394829
Both OP and this post are correct.
Go away John
>>338394998
>its poorly designed because I said so
my argument was as profound as op's
When you can criticize a game without crying like a baby, and being able to understand how the game works. Then I'll say something better than git gud.
Those kind of post are rare though, and this thread is not any better. So yeah, git gud, you scrub.
>>338394998
>GAME SUX
what profound argument you provided
You wouldn't be complaining if you were better at playing the game
>>338394510
He's a big guy
>>338394254
I hate the "git gud" meme, but there's very few modern games that is "bs hard" for poor game design
>>338394254
Holy shit i was just going to post this fucking true! gamers need to unite on this common gaming problem
>>338395146
OP never said a game you twat, he just said your shitty meme in not a rebuttal
The goal of playing a game is to win.
If the player isn't winning, then the game is poorly designed.
Therefore, OP is correct.
>>338395345
Being proficient at something is inherently more fun than being terrible at something.
A game that requires you to utilize the skills that you were supposed to develop in order to progress is not poorly designed, you really just need to git gud.
A poorly designed game would require you to use and master a new skill or throw vast amounts of bullshit at you to be poorly designed.
If you're doing badly at a game and you know you are then the game might just be too hard for you. It's how I felt when I played dark souls my first time. It was fucking tough. Then I got gud. I realize that dark souls wasn't necessarily hard for some people when they first played it but it was for me.
>>338394254
I'd gladly admit that dark souls hitboxes are sometimes bullshit and some levels like the great hollow have horrible collisions
but it's still a game you have to go through
git gud :^)
>>338395454
Just as saying "Game is bad" or "Game is bad because it/some aspect is shit" isn't an argument.
>>338394254
Git Gud has always been a non-answer for a plea for advice so vague that it can't be answered without writing a complete Idiot's Guide To book
If someone can consistently do something you can't you just have to git gud or die trying. It has nothing to do with game design as long as some people manage to consistently achieve/finish/win with the game design which exists.
Reminder that this "movement"against git gud is all because someone at Polygon can't even handle the basics of an FPS, even though they're paid to play games.
I mean, whoever it was shot at walls and medpacks. It wasn't a matter of git gud, it was a matter of learn the fucking basics.
Don't worry OP, now even you can finish our game!
All rule sets in any video game are purely arbitrary. It needs no grounded reason to behave the way it does. In that sense, there is no such thing as a poorly-designed game.
Not being able to adhere to that rule set is entirely your fault, though.
GIT GUD
If you think a game is bad because it is "too hard" that doesn't mean it's poorly designed
If you think a game is bad because it is "too easy" that doesn't mean it's poorly designed.
Difficulty is just one part of a game as a whole, you can't judge the entirety of a game based on one part of it exclusively. That being said not every game has to be accessible to everyone, and if your complaints are that it is too difficult to be accessed by you, claiming that to be a bad design choice is pretty much being as bad as "SJW"'s
>>338395717
I hate everything this stands for.
>>338394254
And being shit at videogames and calling it "poor design" is what DSP does.
But it is an appropriate response when someone calls something poor game design because he is terrible.
>>338395560
>"Game is bad because it/some aspect is shit" isn't an argument.
Yes it is twat
>>338395468
Basketball is a game designed to win and one half of the game always loses. Failure is a roadmap to success.
>>338394998
>start a shit post
>get shit replies
>WOW NICE ARGUMENT FAGS
10/10 thread
>>338394254
Just because you don't like something or found it difficult to handle doesn't make it poorly designed.
>>338395832
Yeah Superman 64 was great! Just casuals couldn't git gud at its controls
>>338395921
Your post is shit because it's bad.
Pretty constructive, huh?
>>338395717
>>338395717
BUH ITS OPSHUNUL!!!!
>>338395717
>>338395825
>The Invincibility Leaf is a power-up that was introduced in Super Mario 3D Land, In Super Mario 3D Land, it only appears after Mario loses five lives in a level that is not already completed.
Gross
>>338395284
For you
>>338395921
Then saying a game is good because it/some aspect is fun is a valid argument under your standards.
>Uncharted
>Game is designed around medium or easy difficulty
>Hardly balanced at all for crushing, and not balanced at all for Brutal.
>Play on Brutal
>Enemy's choice to shoot you is random, sometimes they will shoot immediately, sometimes they will wait
>There's several sections where you will literally get shot and die during a cutscene, with no control of your character, and no way to avoid the scene
>Strategy online is "keep replaying until you get a lucky roll and don't get one shot during the cinematic"
>Mention this in a thread on /v/
>"If you can't git gud don't fucking play harder difficulties you pleb"
>>338395771
What if i think that the certain aspects of the game are bad because i think that previous game in the series did it better and thus the game is bad?
>>338395889
All games should be handicap accessible. The game should pander to my inability to not suck.
Git gud faggot
>>338394254
>"git gud" is not a defense for poor game design. -polygon
>>338396163
>taking shitposting as legitimate posting
>>338396163
git gud
>>338396256
Don't mix faggots who give up and want the game to be easier with people with handicaps.
That is an insult to handicapped people
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nmmqarQRSSE
>>338396136
And? That's a legitimate point.
>>338395832
>game journalism is the new DSP
>provoked /v/ into yet another bait thread which always ends in a stalemate
Guaranteed over 500 posts. Well done, OP.
>>338394254
You're absolutely correct. It's a condescending way to tell someone they suck and shouldn't blame the game for it.
>>338396141
>i can't read
The post said "the game is bad cause some aspect of it" so you would have to say why its fun by saying a aspect that is good
>>338396256
You're right OP, but if the game is well designed, then GIT GUD is a legitimate counter-argument.
>doesn't read themanual
>doesn't read the messages on the ground at the beginning of the game
>lol how do I attack?
>how do I heal?
>how do I roll?
>what the fuck
>>338396618
>hey I'm not bad at games, you're just loser with no life XD
>>338396179
A game isn't bad because another/previous game in the series is better. It just means it is worse than x game. Hence the terminology used to describe certain sequels "Its not a bad game, but it's a bad x game".
But there are exceptions to this rule like Duke Nukem Forever, which was drastically changed in comparison to previous games, ran poorly, was designed poorly, etc. It's a bad game by any standards, let alone Duke Nukem.
If you judge a game based on another game, you can't claim if it's good or bad inherently, only in relation to said game, unless your argument could stand alone from an objective standpoint without relation to the other game.
>>338396698
Does he know about summoning?
Dark Souls not only has an easy mode but A super easy mode with summoning. You literally can just do nothing and get other people to carry you through the game.
>>338396732
>Superman 64 isn't bad, you are XD
boohoo I suck at the game it must be fault of bad game design and/or artifical difficulty
>>338396763
But if a new game is not better than games you already have, what justification is there to buy it?
>>338396694
>This game is fun because of the difficulty level
>This game is shit because of the difficulty level
See the problem?
>I payed for this game, I'm entitled to the beating it
>I payed for this football, I'm entitled to winning the superbowl
>>338396163
>Game is designed around medium or easy difficulty
completely false
hard is the best difficulty, and all enemies die to a single headshot apart from heavily armoured brutes.
crushing is a challenge difficulty only unlocked after the main game
brutal was added in the NDC, haven't tried it
There's a lot of games that are only difficult because the controls are complete ass, or because you have to deal with broken mechanics or cheater AI.
>>338396163
Maybe you should try getting good.
>>338396694
>"the game is bad cause some aspect of it"
What I was referring to when I said that was the posts that say stuff like:
GAME is completely shit
The gameplay is boring
The graphics are shit
The music is lame
etc
There's no elaboration which is exactly the same reason you gave to dismiss the other guy talking about a game being fun.
>>338396998
But the resulting difficulty isn't the problem then.
If the game were just as hard as part of the design as it is with the broken mechanics then it wouldn't be an issue.
That is the point.
>>338394254
why do game journos comment on game design when they have no actual experience in it?
>>338395454
>>338395468
The point of a game is to provide a challenge retard. If you don't overcome something you don't win.
>>338396913
For the same reason that you listen to albums that aren't your favorite, or watch movies that aren't your favorite. Not as good=/=bad. It's still an entirely different set of content, and justification of purchase is based on whether or not you feel the price was worth it for that individual content.
Variety is the spice of life anon
>Wah boss or enemy is hard and I can't get the timing down lol game is so shit I shouldn't have to learn to play, or learn how the game works, it should adhere to me and I should be able to get my hand held
That's not bad game design, thats just neo/v/ being shitter manchildren, and you deserve to be told git gud. The worse part about it is you faggots who pretend something is fucking horrible because you can't get past it in one minute or so, and come here and bitch at people who've already done it, and expect to be fucking babied.
Now if you talk about some actual fucking issues with the game, like
>phantom range
>enemy's hitting through walls
>in game mechanics being useless such as poise(doesn't matter if you like it or not)
>magic being a little underpowered
>some weapon imbalances
Then we can have a conversation, until then you can git gud you fucking faggot, and quit expecting to be babied
>>338396915
>This game is shit because of the terrible control scheme, input delay, large enemy attack hitboxes, poor level design, AI that know your position at any time, etc
>>338397203
Because people click on it and read it?
It's like asking why people use trips on 4chan.
>>338396954
Hard and Crushing are both playable. Like I said, there was some balance that went into those to ensure that you could beat the game on those difficulty settings without relying on lucky dice rolls.
Brutal was not. It's a 2 shot kill for weak enemies, 1 shot kill for harder enemies, so for some of the levels, like the escape levels where there's no cover and you don't have a weapon, you have no options. There's literally nothing you can do to avoid being shot. You just have to keep playing until you get lucky and no one decides to shoot you.
I beat all three on Brutal, but fuck. It straight up wasn't designed to be played at that level of difficulty where the player dies from 1-2 shots anwhere on the body.
>>338397214
Difference between a challenge and artificial difficultly
>>338397392
All I read was
>I can't get used to timing button inputs and mash while using a wireless controller, I walk off cliffs all the time and dont know how to fuck up a simple AI tracking routine(You) right? haha, such a good bait, you're only pretending of course.;)
Exactly, you have to make good criticism and show that mechanics abc have xyz effects, why some or all of them are negative, and preferably then show how it can be better. But then you realize
>/v/
>criticism
>>338397392
But why is the control scheme bad anon? Why is input delay/weapon wind up shit anon? Why does an enemy having an advantage over a player or having large attack hitboxes a terrible? What is bad about the level design? How is enemy AI knowing your position at any time a bad design choice unless the game is going for realism?
Saying something is bad isn't explaining why it is bad, in the same way that saying something is fun isn't explaining why it is fun.
git gud
>>338397502
People using retarded phrases like "artificial difficulty" instead of arguments is exactly the kind of shit that doesn't deserve anything more than a dismissive "git gud".
If people would actually say WHY they think something is a problem instead of calling it "artificial" we wouldn't have these retarded conversations in the first place.
>>338397659
All I read is
>Superman 64 is awesome! Its not poorly designed you just suck XD
>>338395345
This person missed the point.
People ask how do I beat this boss or get through this area because they feel maybe they're doing something wrong or not using the right strategy. The response git gud is saying there is no safe space where you can cheese the level. You have to actually get better at aiming, dodging, and managing resources. Beating a level due to your own skill and technique is much more satisfying that just "Oh, just get the sword with 999 damage"
But of course gotta protect baby's feelings.
People have taken "get good" way too far, to the point that it doesn't even mean what it originally did. I will not explain what it ACTUALLY means to the rest of you retards:
Dark Souls is the exact same shit for the entire game, not saying it's a bad thing but literally the entire game is "dodge/block the enemy attack and hit them until they die". From the weakest hollow up until the final boss that's all you do. It isn't something like Zelda where bosses are beaten by some weird strategy like hit them in all of their legs with a boomerang so they fall down and you can hit them in the eye. When someone asks how to beat a boss in Dark Souls, the only response you can give is "dodge their attacks and hit them until they die", AKA do the exact same thing you did for the rest of the game but better, AKA get better at the game in general, AKA GET GOOD. It's the exact same thing as "to defeat the cyberdemon, shoot it until it dies".
>>338397287
>enemy's hitting through walls
Not an issue you can do that shit as well.
>>338397823
>walking off cliff
>Wireless controller
>Superman 64
haha good one kid, better post this to r/4chan before someone lurking beats you!
>>338398030
What the hell are you talking about
>>338396558
When you play a game, you should throw yourself into it. Done properly, you achieve maximum immersion and take advantage of everything it has to offer. If you have to purposefully ignore something that would let you win then your immersion is basically ruined.
I only tell people to git gud when they're whining about something that's entirely their own fault
>>338395345
He's right, you can have fun losing over and over as well.
>>338397984
so gitgud is lurkmoar
>>338398293
Immersion is gay.
>>338397984
It's the same reason I try not to savescum anymore. Sure, a 'perfect' run is enjoyable in its own way, and setbacks hurt much more when you actually have to live with them, but winning under such circumstances is much more enjoyable. Anyone who disagrees simply hasn't done it.
>>338398464
Immersion is the entire point of video games and art in general. Immersion is how strongly it holds your attention; fun is part of immersion.
>>338398001
or maybe it's the mantra of 'try figuring out yourself because it's worth the effort instead of just getting spoonfeed'
just delete this thread already
>>338394254
Souls franchise comes to mind.
>>338398571
Or you play it because it's fun. I'll never understand you immersion and self-insert fags.
>>338395468
If the only thing you expect out of a videogame is to "win". Then you might as well don't play them, since you don't understand how they work on a fundamental level.
>>338396139
Was getting caught part of your plan?
>>338397984
>The response git gud is saying there is no safe space where you can cheese the level.
But you CAN cheese the levels in Souls games.
>>338398607
OP here. Nah, I haven't posted in it at all aside from this post. I'm just enjoying the discussion you guys are making.
>>338398637
Fun is part of immersion. Being more immersed is having more fun, and vice versa. Self-insertion is not the point. You don't self-insert in fucking Mario.
There's really two types of games people play.
>Games that immerse the player in a world.
These games need challenge for sure, but the challenge should never be too much to cause people to restart sections over and over. That breaks immersion like nothing else
>Games that create rules and tasks and challenge the player to complete the tasks while following the rules.
These games obviously need to be challenging, as that's where the fun comes from.
A lot of games mix both of these obviously, but the trick is finding the right balance for the game you're making.
A lot of times when someone says a game sucks because it's too hard, it's because they just want to be immersed, they don't want to be challenged. This isn't a bad thing when it's in a game that is designed to immerse you, but when that complaint is made for a game that's designed to challenge you, it's pretty dumb, and annoys the people who play challenging games for the challenge.
>>338398571
No it's not. Immersion is just leading to escapism and things that break immersion can be really great as well.
>>338398013
There's certain areas in the game where enemy's can hit through walls and you can't even reach them, like Archdragon.
I've personally never had an issue with it, but it is a valid complaint that some people have, and there's a few webms of it out there. Also, there's certain textures you can't hit past, and ai can.
http://www.sirlin.net/ptw-book/introducingthe-scrub
Play to win you fucking faggots.
>>338395345
he gets told in the comment section, some retards try to defend him but many just tell him bluntly he has to git gud. If he wants to review video games he must be have a basic proficiency with games, just like a music journalist cannot review songs without understanding the basics of melody.
>>338397392
i fucking hate weekend /v/
don't you retards have homework to do
>>338399076
All forms of entertainment are escapism.
>>338399214
>you should use any ingame means to win
>except exploits and bugs, thats just cheap
I have played over 1000 hours of Dota 2. My matchmaking rating is 1400 (for those who don't know, this is very, very bad - an average player would probably have about 3000 MMR and a pro about 6500-7500). I'm naturally not very good at the game - I just don't have the reaction times or hand-eye coordination to see much success. I don't care. I'm having fun.
>>338395717
this is pretty sadistic since it prevents you to 100% the game. Just as it should be for a wimp who cannot git gud
>>338394254
define "poor", because in a multiplayer game, youre genenraly not geting butfucked by the ennemy team because of "poor" deseign, especialy if like most of the shitters on steam forums you only a few hours into the game.
>>338396138
it's pretty much only for when you play with people who aren't very good at games, such as a girlfriend or younger relatives
but what do the people going "UGHHHH GET DIS CASUL SHIT OUTTA HERE" know about any of that?
>>338396698
>>338396763
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WbR7MYGPR6c
>>338399221
understanding melody =/= being good at an instrument
understanding game design =/= being good at games
>>338399671
Why do so many people here think this kind of MLG voice change shit is funny. This kind of humor is fucking horrible.
Couldn't watch more than 27 seconds.
>>338399346
Nice meme, now blame Reddit and Tumblr
>>338396763
>>338399671
Sorry, did the wrong (You), wanted to reply to this one
>>338396698
I could understand this if DS had a half decent story. But it fucking doesn't, the only point of DS is the fair challenge. You might as well be jacking off if you're playing DS on easy modo.
>>338394254
But what do you account as good game design? A game design where it's easy to do a 0 deaths run? A game where you don't have to put in any sort of effort at all? Or a game where time you put in equals progress, no matter what you do in-game?
Those games might be fun, but you can't say you did something great. Git gud means that when you DO succeed, you officially have the status of gud.
>>338399113
People have been complaining about it since Dark Souls 1, probably since Demons Souls and it's never been an issue.
Archdragon Peak is the only exception because of those guys with impossibly long axes.
>>338399348
Art isn't escapism and entertainment isn't necessarily either.
>>338399865
Well congrats you missed the whole point of the video.
>>338399865
It's a stylistic choice because the guy doesn't have a narrator voice. Just showing text would be boring.
Are people really this autistic?
>>338399865
because onlyafro and his fans are colossal faggots
>>338399865
What voice change?
It's the default windows voice synthesizer thing
>>338400016
Art usually is entertainment, though. The only exception is if you're actually trying to send a message about the real world, in which case open up your fucking mouth and speak.
>>338400490
Art may be entertainment, but would you enjoy an 8-hour long movie with almost zero action on your part?
>>338394254
i wonder why the creator of this meme decided to use carl sagan's face
meme psychology is a fascinating subject
>>338400468
>It's the default windows voice synthesizer thing
Yeah and it's fucking retarded and only used in these 12-year-old humor videos
>>338400641
That's just poor entertainment, subjectively.
>>338400016
It really doesn't bother me, because it never happens to me, and when it does its completely avoidable. My point was it is a flawed game mechanic to an extent, and git gud isn't really a proper response to it.
>>338400490
I think there's a limit to how good entertainment can be without sending a message about the real world.
And no not all art is entertainment. Where's the entertainment in looking at a painting? I know this is subjective but you know what I mean.
>>338399738
understanding implies a decent proficiency
>>338397721
Your post is shit. We're not even talking about a specific game, and the obvious point by stating those specific parameters is that the games criticized for them are already known so for good reason.
>>338399973
going out on a limb and guess that most legit game designers don't use the term good or bad because it doesn't mean anything; literal youtube wanna developer detection
>>338398661
of course.
>>338394510
Non sequitur.
>>338400641
called shitty artistry and someone who can't figure out how to make his art work in the best medium for it; lowered expectations
>>338400959
There's a difference between alluding to the real world and making a statement about it. A game featuring Earth-like gravity isn't trying to say that gravity is good or evil or holding back mankind since the stone age. I don't know why race and politics can't be the same way.
And do you mean to tell me you can't have fun looking at a painting, with all the different colors and textures and shapes that are typically involved?
>>338394998
Or maybe you're just shit at games?
>>338394510
>>338394701
>>338394998
>>338395146
>>338395454
>>338395560
>>338395921
>>338396141
>>338396694
Can you motherfuckers just say the game on everyone's mind
>Dark Souls
>Ninja Gaiden
>[Insert dick comparison game name here to piss others off because i'm insecure and better than others]
God damn it, i really fucking hate the leddit/tumbr invasion that made this board even shittier than it's ever been.
Fuck you /v/irgin sad-cuck having twat panderers.
>>338395163
If something "better than git gud" is "well that's just your opinion", then why bother.
>>338401590
No one is talking about any specific game you dweeb.
>>338394254
no one ever uses it as a defense for poor game design though.
>>338399738
Players aren't developing games, they're playing games. Readers don't write books, they read books. Music reviewers have to have functioning ears for starters.
Gaming journalists getting triggered by games being too hard is the same as if an uneducated retard who couldn't read English tried to review English books and then complained that he couldn't understand the words, therefore claiming the book was bad because of that. If you're reviewing games for a living you're rightly expected to have at least the minimal amount of required competence in order to actually explore and understand the gameplay mechanics.
Otherwise you get a flood of retards like was the case with MGR and many professional reviewers complaining about the "poor parry system that doesn't work" or "lack of dodge command".
>>338397984
Probably ever boss in DaS can be cheesed.
Having to push shit up against a wall to find the Zwei isn't particularly interesting. They're just taking no damage because your weapons is awful. The AI isn't particularly engaging, and neither is the gameplay. It's R1, the game.
There's also the potential to completely miss it.
>can't do something other people can do
>its the games fault
>>338394254
scrubs use the 'git good' excuse for defending their flawed game
'git good' stands for most of the DS series and CS:GO for exampleFire Emblem Awakening is not a hardcore tactical game, Advance Wars is
>>338395496
>what is DaS
Dark Souls makes me so mad that my hands are bruised from hitting things and I've eaten 4 whole pencils out of anger, fuck
>>338401774
Which is why i added the third category you illiterate cuck.
>>338402141
spoken like true DSP
>why, the solution my friend, is to increase your skill level, allowing you to surpass a challenge that otherwise is impossible
>but why would a game force me to improve myself? that is simply horrid design, as every game should feel challenging whilst not actually being challenging
Git gud is a perfectly valid response to mouthbreathing retards who complain about a game being "artificially difficult" and "impossible" despite a great number of other people succeeding at what they fail. Many games have tactics and specific strategies for certain hard parts, but sometimes you just hit a point where no amount of cheesing is going to help you surmount the challenge at hand and your only choice is to increase your mechanical skill at the game.
Take Devil May Cry, any other hack'n'slash or Souls series for example, where you have to improve your reaction times, learn enemy attack patterns and in general improve your core knowledge and skills regarding the game. Fuck, practically any game that's real-time and has a fail state requires the player to learn these sort of things.
