Some say "eliminate the idea of end game", but what defines that?
>>338375383
You can level up an alt via clickfest which is piss easy or redo HFC 10th million time or do PvP
that's what is left
Discovery-based crafting professions
it was one of the only things GW2 did well
>>338376349
>Discovery-based crafting professions
Come again?
>>338376457
In cooking, I used to make new dishes just by combining random ingredients.
Granted, the current year is 2016 and faggots will most likely just wiki the game from beginning to end, but some people enjoy doing it blind.
>>338376609
Yeah, I wouldn't say that fixes content problems at all.
Prove this wrong. Protip: you can't.
>>338375383
>eliminate the idea of end game
See GW1 where end game was pretty much everything after you finish the tutorial areas because you were max level, so it was all good and worth doing.
>>338377617
Then how was progression
>>338375383
>Some say "eliminate the idea of end game", but what defines that?
Not possible
Wow will always be a shitt theme park mmo that's all about muh end game
Lock skills behind stat requirements. For example, for a Mage to use a certain spell, require a really high Agility.
>>338375383
Themepark MMOs all have content issues because it's a fault in their core design. Content is cleared faster than it is created and there is hardly any content the players can create themselves or explore to fill the gap after they done everything relevant to them.
Sandbox MMOs like EvE fix this problem by giving the players the tools to alter the games world, economy, and faction. This allows the players to build the experience themselves and that's how you get those crazy MMO memories and make people stay playing your game because you're not playing to reach a level cap or experience a linear story, you're playing because the game is constantly changing every day and crazy shit can happen at any moment whether it's a major faction war over economics or two companies group up to take over a larger corporation's resources and manpower.
>>338378331
This. Runescape did something similar as well.
Sandbox is just superior design compared to themepark.
Adapt all dungeons and raids to the current max level.
The leveling zones scales as does your character.
Make a bunch of daily quests that makes you travell around the world.
More emphasys in the proffesions.
>>338378819
>make a bunch of daily quests that make you travell around the world.
Didn't Diablo 3 have adventure mode that did something similar? I got bored of that super quickly, di anyone else enjoy it?
>>338375383
Stop being jews with this "expansion every year" bullshit, its not gonna work and they have proven time and again they cant do it.
>>338378258
>Mage
>not Int
We go back to Phantasy Star Online MMOs where the endgame is going with groups to collect rare loot and trading your earned loot with other players for better loot. Nobody ever cares about reaching a level cap or doing some epic boss raid.
Basically a Diablo MMO.
>>338379509
That was the point. Horizontal progression. Or something. For one ability, you need to do that dungeon that drops cloth with agility, for something else you need to do another dungeon. Keeps the dungeons relevant for longer.
>>338379664
>diablo MMO
>implying tedious loot grind for 10 more strength on your belt isn't part of the problem
>>338379509
And this is why we should kill all wow players
>>338379664
That would require people to socialize which modern mmos are not and frankly in real life as well. The average person in real life socialize with nothing more than simple plentries and then back into their caves where they belong.
Then again modern society is full of shitters so I don't blame people to not want to socialize.
>>338379890
The thing about PSO was that weapons and equipment often had tons of different special abilities and effects. You weren't just only looking forward to +10 attack power, you were looking forward to the active and passive effects that allowed you to make some crazy builds.
>>338379879
>>338379907
Why would a mage use agility? You're throwing out random stats instead of actually contributing.
![the-ruby-sanctum[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/FksYkSL.jpg "the-ruby-sanctum[1].jpg")
Blizz just needs to shit out a lazy raid with recycled mechanics and people will eat it up like new content.
They removed 80% of the content of their game by making raids all that mattered.
>>338380204
So the mage can have different abilities than the int mages
>EVE Online
>Gallente
>Ishtar
>designed to use armor, drones and hybrid weapons
>people play around with it
>fit shield, drones, and neuts
>it's way stronger than the other ishtar fit
>would never have been a thing in world of warcraft because of all the restrictions
>>338380204
>why would a mage use ability
In the current game, there's no reason, he's proposing mechanics that would make it worth it to be creative instead of just dumping all your points into two stats I.E. Diablo 3
>>338380204
Build variety.
Blizzard has made stats fucking useless. The only interesting stats are (main stat) (mastery), and even most mastery shit is just RNG/% more damage bullshit. Building isn't interesting or fun, they took away the ability to do anything but be a minmaxing faggot.
>>338375383
Eliminating the endgame is what Black Desert is.
It's been working out great so far.
>>338380603
At all. There's no reason for a hypothetical mage to use agility. The point of criticism is to come up with something they would use, like abilities that can come from gear or actual stats that already exist in RPGs that would actually be helpful in the game, like item find or lifesteal or range.
>>338380723
And it's not logical what a mage would get from agil.
>>338380558
Everybody fits shield stuff to armor boats because armor plates are trash.
>>338375383
THey can start by making 90% of their old content somewhat relevant and challenging again.
Content issues werent as bad during the TBC era either since the raids took ages to defeat and players had something they could really sink their teeth into.
Also, give it some sort of progression ladder so people stop skipping the first tier or two of raiding to go directly to the last raid, beat in one hour and unsub again until the next xpac.
>>338375383
Well, nowadays it seems that you're supposed to reach max level as soon as possible, so it's piss easy to level up, sometimes to the point where you don't finish everything that there's to do in one area. You get to endgame and it's all about raiding from that point on.
Vanilla or TBC, even WOTLK had interesting and fun leveling stages. It actually felt like an adventure because of many things: the actual risk of dying, the idea of not being a superhero, you took your time actually digging into each of the races and towns and shit that were around to discover. This is what I think made the difference between old WoW and modern WoW.
>>338380876
What the fuck do you mean? You have to be creative. Haste could be gained from agility. Spells that effect movement speed or attack speed, even on other players. Spells that slow down haste on enemy players. There are more uses for spells beyond damage.
>>338380876
>because armor plates are trash.
Well that's just wrong
>>338380808
it's going so great that no one plays it anymore
>>338380876
>it's not logical what a mage would get from agil
You're too stuck in classic RPG arch-types. A mage could definitely specialize into agility and be a kind of spell-sword, or strength and be a "battle-mage".
>>338380204
If it required intellect the dungeons would be upgraded into irrelevancy as soon as something new was made. And all the old stuff would pretty much become removed content.
If we required, for example, mages to have some degree of agility to use some of their skills, and wear some agility gear, the dungeon providing agility would stay relevant as long as the skill unlocked remained useful, even if new dungeons provide more intellect.
I haven't really finished the idea, the point is just to find ways to have more than one relevant raid.
>>338380946
Back then in Vanilla and TBC, the game was still new and the game wasn't as documented.
Now that the game is 11 years old, there's no sense of exploration anymore now that everyone has YouTube videos, thesis paper structured guides, thousands of fully updated addons, and more. May as well skip the bullshit padding and let you get to the real meal and potatoes. If you want something Vanilla again where everything is a mystery and encourages you to explore, make a sandbox MMO.
>>338381227
>May as well skip the bullshit padding
Fuck you, faggot. Just because you need guides and addons to crutch for you doesn't mean that other players don't want to explore and play the game without googling every problem.
>>338381426
You don't have to use the crutch, but the hundreds of thousands of people who play the game expect you to even the developers do too.
>>338381528
That's a mistake on the developer's part.
>>338381227
I'm sorry but I differ. The game was just as documented as it is today, at least when TBC came along. I remember looking for things I couldn't find in the wowwiki. The difference, I believe, was that there was no in-game mechanism pointing where you had to go all the time, or telling you where everything was. This made the game much more linear, at least subconsciously. Back then, you actually had to read the quest description to know where you had to go (and thus, you also knew why you had to go, making it more immersive).
I mean, you don't have to look at all those videos and wikis and guides if you don't want to. But when the guide is actually embedded into the game, then, what can you do?
>>338381010
The fuck are you talking about, it's been out in western release for 3 months and has over 100k consistent players at any given time between 6 servers, when they update the hardware in July and finish catching up to the KR version they expect over 400-500k consistent with over a million sales.
They pretty much have done better then any eastern mmo release to the west in history.
>>338381653
>you actually had to read the quest description to know where you had to go
not if you had quest helper, even in 2008 quest helper had over 20 million downloads.
>>338380948
Because you're basically asking for a redesign of how every class is affected by every stat. But that's not any more helpful than somebody asking to just put new stats in the game but not saying what.
>>338382002
They had every stat already in the game that they needed. They had every stat affect things in a good way, allowing for more builds than just 'stack your main'. If you really need me to hold your hand, strength could affect spells dealing with damage, agility with speed/haste, int with damage, spirit with buffs, etc. Use your imagination.
>>338375383
>Some say "eliminate the idea of end game", but what defines that?
Its a dumb concept that people who don't understand the dynamic of the game espouse because they don't know any better. End game exists because new content has to be relevant and there is a level cap. Its not the problem with WoW. The problem with WoW is that there is no progression for people who want it, because they design the game to get everyone riding the latest rides.
>>338381063
>>338381091
The problem with using stats already in the game is that they'd have to completely rework leveling rewards. That's huge.. not to mention classes trying to utilize stats that they don't ordinarily, and this resulting in completely fresh classes/specs also isn't really helping. It's just asking for fresh classes.
>the point is just to find ways to have more than one relevant raid
That's as simple as damage and resist types, bosses requiring extra movement speed, etc. But see >>338377154. Adding a bunch of potential sets / creative mixes to the game without a removal mechanic just fills bag space too much.
>>338375383
Copy FFXIV's fate system
Copy FFXIV's crafting system (not the scrips tho)
Copy FFXIV's level sync system
Copy FFXIV's relic system which makes old world content relevant
>>338381887
If that is the case, then I believe Blizzard still made a mistake. You see, downloading all those addons was still optional, so you could enjoy the game as you wished. By making it a permanent feature of the game, I believe Blizzard ignored the playerbase that liked to play using no guides at all, which I believe was a huge one.
>>338381664
They can 'expect' all they want but reality isnt like that. 100k is nothing.
>>338375383
>How to fix content issues
Pretty easy, by giving casual players something to work towards. That's why vanilla and BC feel like the most rewarding expansions for the general playerbase, reflected also by the direction subs take during those particular eras.
Will never happen, but I would propose:
>One difficulty setting for raids
>Raids increase in difficulty over the course of an expansion
>Challenging 5-man content
>Removal of the LFR/LFD system at endgame
>Crafting provides raid quality bop items
That's pretty much it.
SORT BLIZZARD THE FUCK OUT
>We learned from the past, we won't have a content drought like at the end of WotLK
>We hired more people, we won't have a content drought like at the end of Cata
>We streamlined our production cycle, we won't have a content drought like at the end of MoP
Are these nigs just sitting with their thumb up their ass all year?
>>338382397
>they'd have to completely rework stuff
That's right, and they should. Because leveling rewards are fucking garbage. There is no incentive to not buy the leveling boost besides saving money. There is no incentive to go through 90% of the content in the game because you can sit in LFG from 1-90 and get to the 'end game' in less than three days.
>>338382291
>really, there is all of this potential
>just redesign all the quest rewards, make stats affect everything in a unique way that I'm not coming up with, maybe just make it random!
I get the point, but none of this fixes content issues because they would still have to handcraft every boss and raid and QA it, because all of this keeps the theme park.
>>338378331
>>338378331
>>338378331
>>338378331
>>338378331
This.
You can't fix WoW unless you tear it down and start anew.
>>338382512
Nah the western community has changed. The new generation of gamers are entitled and seek faster gratification with few limitations. They are the largest demographic too.
>>338382640
>leveling rewards are fucking garbage
Irrelevant. We have heirlooms.
^_^
>>338382821
>[source not provided]
"But just look at.." Still not a source.
>>338381227
>Back then in Vanilla and TBC, the game was still new and the game wasn't as documented.
i REMEMBER EVERYONE USING thot bot back then to look up stuff and there was add ons.
>>338377154
I already did in a previous thread. The gear treadmill already removes gear and creates constant demand.
There's always incentives for WPvP in Vanilla. Competing for resources, BRM wars, competing for world bosses, killing rival guilds on their way to raids so they drop world buffs, and general fun.
Every profession is necessary to progress through each individual tier of raiding.
>>338382801
>having to get rid of any major gameplay in WoW to make it a sandbox
Negative. See >>338377154
>>338379664
>>338380103
Damn I miss PSO, being a melee Fomar was so much fun. The class was designed to be primarily a spellcaster but through clever itemization you can make a very good hybrid build out of it.
Why are WoWfags and former WoWfags the most pussywhipped fanbase on the internet?
>>338383051
>The gear treadmill already removes gear and creates constant demand.
No it doesn't. Gear isn't removed until it becomes obsolete. Having the same gear for a whole raid patch (that lasts months, at least) isn't "creates constant demand". If you'd quit being a shitposting dirigible, floating in a see of shit, maybe the game would be fixed by now. Not taking the simple A to B is autism.
>>338383324
>No it doesn't. Gear isn't removed until it becomes obsolete
It becomes obsolete because everyone you're competing against is getting the better gear from the new raid. You have to get it as well to keep up. Months of raiding each lockout are required to get full BiS.
The gear treadmill (when done right) creates that demand for constant effort from the player but it also doesn't take away what the player has already earned. Plenty of people prefer it that way.
>>338383589
>you have to work harder for gear
>when you can get raid-level gear from garrisons
>>338383817
>(when done right)
that was the important qualifier there
>>338383589
A demand for "constant effort" isn't a demand for gear. There's no demand for crafting if you can get all your gear from raid lockouts. There's no demand for fresh gear at all. Most players do LFR and unsub probably.
>>338383313
how does any of that relate to women
>>338383992
shut up gamer girl
>>338375383
>bring back distinct class roles
>get rid of respecs
>instantly more people leveling up to try new builds
>blizzard forced to fix the actual game instead of focusing on end game
easy
>>338384178
But leveling isn't fun.
Specifically, doing the same dungeons and quests isn't fulfilling.
>>338383110
your idea sucks and even blizzard agrees, that's why your WoW thread about the idea got laughed at and hidden.
>>338375383
Just kill raiding, it's poisoned the game and the subscriber count has gotten lower and lower ever since they focused on satisfying raiders at the expense of everyone else. Expansions should be full of WORLD content that takes time to work through, not something that takes 10 hours because all the resources went towards making raids.
>>338383978
The new tier and its improved gear becoming available is what creates the demand for gear. In order to keep up in this treadmill system, you have to put in constant effort raiding each week. This is what keeps players playing throughout a 2 year expansion like they did in Vanilla/BC. The treadmill was implemented perfectly in Vanilla and near perfectly in BC.
>There's no demand for crafting if you can get all your gear from raid lockouts
Some of the BiS gear for some classes/specs was craftable. Even when it's not BiS, craftable gear is almost always a temporary upgrade when you get new patterns from the new raid. And aside from crafting actual gear, you have professions like gathering, Alchemy, Enchanting, Jewelcrafting, Inscription, and Engineering that are in constant demand regardless of the tier due to consumables and item enhancements.
>Most players do LFR and unsub probably
Don't look at neo-WoW for a good example of the gear treadmill, look at Vanilla.
>>338384269
Why do people think leveling isn't fun?
End game....ya know...collecting gear by doing the same raids over and over is essentially leveling up your power...but u don't get any new tools.
>>338384269
>But leveling isn't fun
Speak for yourself faggot.
>>338384178
>Get rid of respecs
Congrats, you just killed WoW. As if doing the same boring shit to level up a class wasn't bad enough, you now have to do it for respecs.
Yours was clearly a joke post.
>>338384487
>>338384404
Do people actually enjoy running the same dungeons over and over and also grinding 10 boar asses for quests?
>>338384579
I enjoyed playing World of Warcraft when it was good, yes. Maybe you just don't and should find a different game instead of demanding it become more like cowadoody.
>>338384269
leveling got less fun because it was marginalized by the end game focus. the more they made it 'convenient' to level up, the more shallow it became. it was much more fun in vanilla, go try a private server and you'll understand.
>>338384395
New tiers don't become available for months.
If you're admitting that WoW can't be fixed unless it's reverted to vanilla, that's a much less simple fix than mine, thus I win.
>>338381063
Okay but you just agreed. The mage doesn't benefit from agility, he becomes another class.
>>338384579
I enjoyed learning about the lore while questing, exploring well-built areas, interacting with other players to overpass hard challenges, seeing how my build options affected how fast I quested or the variety of ways I could. I enjoyed feeling like I was in a fantasy world, feeling like an adventurer, immersed in an adventure.
Questing and leveling is(was) fun.
>>338382291
This is stupid. It's literally a system of secondary stats combined into the primary ones which will still lead people to cookie cutter damage builds. What do you think you're fixing?
>>338382417
>Copy FFXIV's dead servers
>>338385153
You're right, since some people are minmaxing faggots, we should take away the option for build variety for everyone else.
>>338385116
I cringed so hard that people on /v/ actually think this way about a shallow themepark MMO.
>>338375383
To fix this end game centric MMO design you've got to do many things.
The first is design the game to be a journey and not a destination. These games are always about getting to somewhere. Whether it's hitting max level, or reaching that next raid tier. It's never about enjoying where you are, it is always a race to the next tier of content, and once you reach that you immediately start trying to get to the tier after it.
Another problem is how the games scale statwise. A level 1 person has like 100 hp, a level 99 person has like 2.75 billion hp. Same applies to gear, enemies and so on. Due to this, something at your current level is going to be rendered obsolete 5-10 levels later, so only end game stuff is relevant at all.
Yet another thing is one of the mechanics in the game. Specifically how everything is based around level (until end game). If I'm 5 levels lower than an enemy, they automatically do 500% damage to me and most of my attacks miss, the ones that do hit do 20% damage. The opposite is also true.
Additionally, a lot of content is locked behind level requirements. Whether this is gear, quests or dungeons/raids. Essentially, I'm always forced into content that is roughly my level.
There is probably more I am forgetting, but without changing these 3 things, the game is always going to be end game centric because that is how it is purposefully designed.
>>338385232
WoW is doing even better than copying, they are surpassing them on that front.
>>338385236
>It's cringy to want to be immersed in an RPG
Autism, everyone.
>>338384885
>New tiers don't become available for months
It takes months for most people to even clear the raid, and then it takes months to get full BiS. For the vast majority of people, it's an unattainable goal which keeps them playing indefinitely.
>If you're admitting that WoW can't be fixed unless it's reverted to vanilla, that's a much less simple fix than mine, thus I win.
Your idea turns the game into something entirely different, essentially injecting a new game in the old one. The two wouldn't fit together and it'd be clunky and difficult to grasp as shit.
Reverting to Vanilla WoW won't be as complicated as you think btw. See pic related. Nostalrius has already said they will hand over everything they've worked on for 5 years to Blizzard for free in order to assist their development of official servers .I wouldn't be surprised if we got the announcement a couple months into Legion after it verifiably bombs.
Not to shit on your idea though dude. It could work in a different game if the game's mechanics were built around it. Permanent gear loss through use just isn't World of Warcraft though, and the vast majority of people wouldn't enjoy it. It wouldn't fix World of Warcraft.
>>338385116
>lore
Ugh. So many instances in WoW of factions doing fucking retarded things to justify all the WARCRAFT. From a game perspective that's fine but the lore will always suffer for game play justifications.
>>338385116
>>338385312
>I enjoyed feeling like I was in a fantasy world, feeling like an adventurer, immersed in an adventure.
>>338385561
>factions doing fucking retarded things to justify all the WARCRAFT
But the last three expansions have had barely any WAR at all
>>338385564
>games should only be about seeing my numbers get bigger and bigger until I have the biggest number of them all
>>338385235
Might want to keep reading that post until you realize why your response was irrelevant.
>>338385309
This picture should result in a ban. It's shitposting.
>>338385153
You're right bud. What's the point of customization in an RPG? Being creative and discovering new builds and playstyles was never a thing. Stats, professions, talents, gear, etc. should all be removed.
>>338385784
>irrelevant
It's fixing the fact that being a minmaxing faggot is the ONLY WAY TO PLAY now.
You can only play as THAT GUY because blizzard takes away every option that isn't the best.
>>338385820
>D-D-DELETE T-THIS!
lmao
>>338385680
Dunno about legion but Warlords, Mop and Cata had plenty faction pissing contests.
>It's another people that does not enjoy MMOs tells other people what a "perfect" MMO is like episode.
>>338385751
That's all WoW is even in Vanilla. You played a skinner box that tricked you into thinking you were having an adventure and doing meaningful things when all you were doing was following a linear path to chase a carrot on stick.
>>338385967
>It's another people who don't enjoy MMOs spend their time posting in an MMO thread with autism avatars episode
>>338385841
Stop being defensive and reread that. Customization is great, that anons solution was not.
>>338386040
Except he just told you he enjoyed the lore and atmosphere which is the exact opposite of chasing a carrot on a stick. Not everyone thinks like you dude.
>>338386040
I didn't play to get bigger numbers, I played to progress in the story and lore. Speak for yourself if you need a carrot on a stick to play a game.
>>338375383
Scale old zones up then add some worthwhile shit there. Quit making everything so goddamn convenient and streamlined when the core gameplay isn't even that good. Most people play WoW for the RPG aspect but it's trying to be a shitty action game. Also make old content challenging so it's 110 levels of gameplay and not just one.
>>338377154
I saw this same post fucking FIVE MONTHS AGO. How pathetic are you dude?
>>338385890
You don't get this, but we're not actually disagreeing.
>>338386172
>>338386173
>I played to progress in a non existent story and butchered WC3 lore
>>338386120
Sorry, I saw you claim that stat variation would just be cookie cutter and got triggered.
>>338386284
>I don't know what I'm talking about
>>338384918
No, he becomes a specialized version of his class. Like fire/frost/arcane isn't different classes, they're specializations.
>>338386284
Not really progress as much as experience, and the story does exist, but essentially yeah. What's your point?
>>338386487
My point is that you're a faggot just like anyone who thinks WoW was or is good.
>>338375383
WoW went to shit as soon as Blizzard tried to "improve" it.
Fuck all your cancerous ideas to "improve" it even more unless it a return to its roots which wont ever happen.
>>338385380
>Reverting to Vanilla WoW won't be as complicated as you think btw.
>"The original game code does not exist in that form anymore. All the old data has been replaced, with the newer data which was not saved (archived) for later reuse. It was over-written and destroyed. “There is no switch to flip on the realms to roll back years of patches and changes…” In keeping with the sentiment in expressed in #2, above, it’s gone, never to return. Even if it were “recoverable” by other means it would still require lengthy and expensive rewrite."
>"I work for a software company with corporate customers. Each of them has rather more invested in equipment than a PC gamer, and they like paying for upgrades even less.
>Our products have been advancing technologically over time in a gradual fashion, so as not to lose the customers with the oldest equipment. However, things like operating system support and hardware version support are outside our control--which means we have to keep slowly advancing the requirements, and adjust existing code to match. Over time that means stuff eventually falls off the list of what we can support, because our code, gradually upgraded as it is, starts to require OS or hardware features the oldest equipment can't support.
>We couldn't turn the clock back ten years, or probably even five, if we wanted to.
>>338386467
I guess but in your situation the mage doesn't get any mage stuff from agility, he would just be reclassing. So pretty much exactly like DND multiclass characters.
>>338386554
Why are you here?
>>338386638
>ignores my post
>ignores the entire situation
>spouts 5 year old, already refuted lies
>>338386824
GODDAMN JOE ROGAN
>>338386824
>already refuted
na
>>338383203
Go to ephinea.pioneer2.net and sign up.
Download that shit and play PSO like the old days, maybe even better.
>>338375383
Create more content
>>338386941
>The code doesn't exist anymore
>Nostalrius
yea nah try again pal
>>338385236
To be fair, before we had all played this type of MMO for however much, leveling up and clearing pretty areas of infinitely respawning shit was pretty satisfying.
>>338385293The game is about reaching max level because everybody already has max level characters and isn't leveling.
>>338385380
>It takes months for most people to even clear the raid
>most people
Irrelevant. If this is talking about contemporary WoW, the point about LFR and unsubbing remains. It's also not free roam content / WPvP, a constant economical demand for gear, thus not a constant demand for crafting and gameplay (which raid lockouts aren't either), etc.
>Your idea turns the game into something entirely different, essentially injecting a new game in the old one. The two wouldn't fit together
They wouldn't have to "fit together". It's just extra content to what's already there.
>Permanent gear loss through use just isn't World of Warcraft though
>[appeal to tradition]
>>338387126
You can't be this dumb...Nost wasn't a carbon copy of Vanilla, it was a heavily modified client
>>338377154
Burden of proof means you need to prove this right.
>>338387259
You can't be this dumb.. a literal exact replica isn't required to satiate the demand. Pedantic retard.
>>338387202
>appeal to tradition
I'd rather follow his "logical fallacy" than the arrogant easy way out solution that will clearly and very obviously work.
>>338375383
I had always thought nixxing expansions and introducing new monsters, zones, dungeons, items, quests etc. over time and relatively frequently would be the best way to solve this, and would help consumers by removing expac costs.
>>338386217
>Randomly posting the truth in a relevant thread again is pathetic
>filename threads on repeat are pathetic
>another WoW thread is pathetic
Maybe if you could actually deny the point, you wouldn't feel so inconsequential that you're projecting.
>>338387749
Dude five fucking months ago there were people complaining about you posting that drivel every single wow thread
Get a life bro
>>338387472
Nost didn't run on the Battlenet client which all Blizzard games do now so they'd have to modify Battlenet to somehow be able to use this expansion that existed before it did
>>338387202
>If this is talking about contemporary WoW
It's not.
>It's also not free roam content
All content except for dungeons and raids is "free roam". Requiring all content to become "free roam" in order to "fix WoW" is severe goalpost shifting.
>WPvP, a constant economical demand for gear, thus not a constant demand for crafting and gameplay
I already gave examples of how WPvP and professions/economic involvement are mandatory for progression. You can't just write them off as not existing.
>They wouldn't have to "fit together"
You have a really flawed understanding of how MMOs work. Every mechanic in the game needs to be supported by every other mechanic. You can't just hamfist this idea into current WoW and expect it to work, that's retarded.
>[appeal to tradition]
You're right, it is.. Just like saying turning WoW into an FPS wouldn't save it is also appealing to tradition, and also accurate.
>>338387373
EVE always has content. Checkmate.
>>338387501
>clearly and very obviously work
Beyond the redundancy, it's nice you agree.
>>338387849
>implications
Sure, bud.
>>338387916
>so they'd have to modify Battlenet to somehow be able to use this expansion
I didn't say it'd be entirely effortless. I said the code exists. Don't shift goalposts.
>>338387998
>Requiring all content to become "free roam" in order to "fix WoW" is severe goalpost shifting
Which is a strawman, because that post obviously isn't suggesting that. Hence "it's the same game but with sandbox content".
>WPvP are mandaty for progression
It isn't, and neither are professions and economic involvement. If you're not talking about contemporary WoW, the point remains that this idea is much more simple than reverting everything to vanilla.
>Every mechanic in the game needs to be supported by every other mechanic.
Again, you obviously aren't talking about the game as it is.
>>338388491
>Again, you obviously aren't talking about the game as it is.
I've made it quite clear like 10 times now that I'm referring to Vanilla.
>It isn't, and neither are professions and economic involvement
Yes, it is. I've given you the same examples (that you continue to ignore) multiple times.
>Which is a strawman, because that post obviously isn't suggesting that
It's not a strawman, your post very heavily implied that it'd need to be "free roam" in order meet your requirements for WoW to be fixed. If that wasn't your intention, word your arguments better.
>>338388491
>the point remains that this idea is much more simple than reverting everything to vanilla.
No, that point doesn't remain. I've told you why it's not simpler than reverting to Vanilla. Even if it was, that doesn't make you right or your idea good.
>>338388102
The redundancy was an obvious emphasis on the naivete of your idea. Of course you missed it.
The whole garrisons and crafting needs to be overhauled to work like Black Desert.
Get rid of flying and make the world smaller and more dense with content.
Legion is probably going to be WoD2 but I'm still gonna play it for at least a month.
My solution for "getting rid of flying" without making flying mounts useless? Give flying mounts a long cooldown, like 5 minutes. Ground mounts remain how they are.
>>338388986
>>338389096
> your post very heavily implied that it'd need to be "free roam" in order meet your requirements for WoW to be fixed
While allowing everything else to be the same. That's why there's no clash with the game, and there's no "requirement for all content to become free roam" or whatever nonsense.
The really low quality of your posts undermines your points. They can't actually engage the idea.
>>338388163
The code doesn't exist though...
>The original game code does not exist in that form anymore. All the old data has been replaced with newer data and not archived for later reuse. “There is no switch to flip on the realms to roll back years of patches and change”
That's what you don't seem to understand. The most they could probably do is take the code that Nost has then rebuild the server code because, as Tom has said, the old code is meant to run on the old hardware and private servers have written their own code base reverse engineered from how the client interacts with the server. They don't use Blizzard's own code. This means Blizzard couldn't use the code Nost uses and would have to resurrect the old code which they've said has been overwritten.
It's hard not to shift goalposts around when you think of how much work it will take to update the vanilla code and what a hassle that will be updating 10 year old data to work with the new hardware. Once they upgrade the code they'll then have to tweak it to accomodate the security and anti-cheating technology that wasn't around in Vanilla.
Then of course the authentication procedure, Battlenet integration, and even more debugging.
All you can get is Pristine servers which will turn off the XP bonuses like RAF and Hierlooms.
>>338390132
>The most they could probably do is take the code that Nost has then rebuild the server code
Yes, that's what will happen. The code does exist, it needs to be made compatible with Blizzard's structure. It will take some effort, but it will take a whole lot less than it would have without Nostalrius. It's not remotely close to impossible. It will happen.
>>338390073
I'm not understanding what you're saying.
>>338390504
>I'm not understanding what you're saying.
Maybe because you've been circle-implicating for 8 replies with no actual intention of engaging that idea.
>>338390594
I still don't get it.
>>338378331
best post is ignored post
>>338390504
You didn't even read the post did you? I'll break it down in terms a child like you can understand:
The code Nostalrius uses isn't the same as the code Blizzard uses and it can't be "made compatible with Blizzard's structure" because Blizzard resurrecting old code means it has requirements to run the old code. A private server written from scratch doesn't have that limitation.
>>338391257
>it can't be "made compatible with Blizzard's structure" because Blizzard resurrecting old code means it has requirements to run the old code.
They wouldn't have to "ressurect old code". It'd be Nostalrius' new code on the new structure, just made compatible with each other.
>>338391976
You keep believing that, I'm done explaining this simple concept over and over again to someone who is obviously brain dead.
>>338382512
You missed one thing. Not allowing for leapfrogging. Raids must have a progression system.
Otherwise, you're pretty much on the ball. Its amazing that Blizzard refuses to admit something so simple can fix their shitty game.
>>338375383
>Some say "eliminate the idea of end game", but what defines that?
Have not much to do at the level cap and a fuckload of stuff to do before it. Make the game fun right away, make people want to make a new character of a different class to have a new experience instead of doing the same thing over and over at the end while over 98% of the game's content is ignored.
'Endgame' as a concept is cancer.
>>338392214
I understand what you're trying to say, I just don't agree with them having to "ressurect the old code" line for line to release successful Vanilla servers.
