>We are immortal space gods without beginning or end and you cannot comprehend our motives
I guess he just lied.
>>338290482
>Mass Effect 1 Reapers
>"We are beyond your comprehension. We are on a plain you couldn't fathom."
>Mass Effect 3 Reapers
>"We're killing you because lol it's for your own good lol"
What kind of motive could they have that a human cannot comprehend
>>338292096
one that a human could not write
>>338290482
I had the greatest boner during that dialogue.
>>338292096
Something that a human level of intelligence is incapable of understanding? It's impossible to give an example because none of us can understand it as a concept
>>338292096
The mistake was letting Reapers even interact with people. If you want to make somethings unknowable and above puny mortals, you don't have them talk to lesser beings, let alone explain their goals. Only have people guess at their goals, or maddened humans try to figure them out.
Do you explain to ant hills why you're dumping ant killer pellets on their home?
>>338290482
If we pretend that they didn't completely retcon the original story, it could just mean that they suffer from an acute superiority complex and felt like it was like trying to explain to an ant why they'd need to asphalt the fucking road
>>338292784
It just sounds like a hand-wave, if there's some kind of logical reasoning behind it, it shouldn't be difficult to explain it
>>338291395
they say that in mass effect 1
they are bringing our salvation through destruction
the plot would make sense if it was something like
"in order to organic life to continue, they cannot advance that far" or something like that
>>338292962
>Do you explain to ant hills why you're dumping ant killer pellets on their home?
I would totally explain it if I could speak to ants. But you have a point, making them speak to humans just humanizes them
The Reapers should have been shelved as a threat after the first game.
With the implication that they were all sleeping and even if they woke up would use decades to reach the galaxy.
>>338290482
>>338291395
One thing I always wonder is if they went with that direction for the entire series and never explained what they were. Would people have been upset that there was never a true explanation of their motives?
That said, it's still way better than what we got.
Not even the Reapers could beat the power of shitty retcons and horrible writing.
Truly a terrifying power that we can't comprehend.
>>338293101
It makes sense. There will be things that humans can't understand, concepts too big.
>>338293421
I always end up comparing the Brethren Moons of DS3 to Reapers, and saying how they were Reapers done right.
And talking to ants would be rad as hell.
They were clearly up to something better, but the writers didn't have the balls when it came time for ME3. Honestly I just consider ME1 a standalone game, saves me some grief.
>>338293878
I'd like to read a behind-the-scenes look at Mass Effect, so I could see where things went wrong due to publisher pressure, and pussyfooting when the end was nigh.
>>338293694
I don't buy it. Maybe if it was some kind of mathematical problem that is too difficult. But if it's just straight forward reasoning it should be explainable with a flowchart or something no matter how big
I like to imagine that the true ending for the trilogy was going to be the inevitable reaping of the sentient races by the Reapers. As you look at them in ME1 there really isn't any chance for victory against their full might, that's really what made them great to begin with anyway, the fact that they really did seem innumerable and ungodly powerful.
Then ME2 pretty much reboots the series and blah blah blah.
You are not saren.
>>338294185
Look up Wittgensteins "If a lion could talk, we could not understand it."
The premise is that a lion, or in this case an alien civilization, has so little in common with humans that whatever he would say (even if it was in plain English) would not make any sense. It's points of reference are so far removed from our experiences we could not comprehend the meaning behind the words.
>>338294185
Seeing as the reapers plan and scheme over literally tens of thousands of years, their reasoning could easily be beyond races that only live for a couple of hundreds years. The vast majority of humans has no comprehension of time beyond decades.
>it's a Mass Effect thread
>>338290482
>you cannot comprehend our motives
>The plot in 3 was so stupid I couldn't understand why it was the way it was.
I guess he was right, huh?
Hell, the fact that they immortalize species by making them into massive cyborg spaceships was a good enough motive. Why throw on some tacky robots killing everything plot?
>>338294692
If the lion was speaking grammatically correct English, it should be able to explain its motivations even if they seemed strange
>>338290482
he was talking about mac the hack, nobody knows what goes on in that faggots head
>>338294692
I don't buy that. We would definitely understand the lion, given that it was speaking a language we could understand of course.
>>338293878
>>338294174
Not sure what you anons mean. Drew Karpyshyn was the lead writer for ME1, and wrote part of ME2. He stepped out of ME during ME2 to write his own novel series though.
>>338294778
We can conceptualize different time periods and events. Even if the plan spans a long time, it's still just 'a happens at x time. b happens at y time, which makes c happen at z time'
>>338295341
>>338295263
I think you are missing the point of Wittgensteins observation. It is more about language itself than anything. Unless you have some background in theoretical physics, you would also have troubles following a conversation about remornalisation groups in strongly coupled non-Abelian gauge theories. An ancient alien civilisation is far more removed than a physicist.
>>338295994
But now you're assuming it would be incomprehensible because the Reapers' motivations would have something to do with renormalization and non-Abelian gauge theories to fit your idea of incomprehensible motivations. And we already have studies in those fields anyway.
>>338292096
I'd say "We're killing you so you don't get killed" is pretty incomprehensible, but only because it's fucking stupid.
>>338295994
but a lion is only going to talk about eating gazelles and fucking lionesses
>>338292172
underrated post
>>338295994
Doubtful. Anything can be explained in a simple manner. It might not be an exact, detailed version, but it will get the speakers point across.
If you think, "We kill advanced organics so they don't make synthetics that kill all organics" is hard to say, then you have a problem.
>>338296245
I was bringing that as an example of how language is useless if you do not possess the experiences needed to make sense out of what was said.
https://youtu.be/wMFPe-DwULM
>>338292962
that's dumb because the reapers were indoctrinating humans, so they had to let them know. Or, creatures would figure it out through being indoctrinated and make devices like that reaper beacon in OP
>>338293554
>Would people have been upset that there was never a true explanation of their motives?
I don't think so. Most people tend to say the main Reaper plot was always the least interesting part of Mass Effect, and that the real appeal of the series was having fun space adventures with likable characters.
>>338296249
>"We're killing you so you don't get killed"
That's perfectly understandable, humans do the same to animals. We cull populations so they don't get too big and their ecosystem can preserve the balance. If there's too many of them, they'll eat all the x they use as food and then the whole population will die
>>338290482
"What do you want from us? Slaves? Resources?"
"My kind transcends your very understanding. We are each a nation, independent, free of all weakness. You cannot even grasp the nature of our existence."
He really didn't even address the question in ME1, and their ME3 motives do require billions of years of observation of organic life to even begin to be justified, so I don't see a direct conflict.
The real unanswered question in the Reaper logic is why they themselves can be trusted to never completely wipe out organic life (which is what they fear synthetics will do). Because the Leviathans gave them really good orders? It's just not very satisfying.
>>338292096
well, if it was about the dark star stuff that got completely scrapped, it was uncomprehensible for humans in the sense of "your scientifical knowledge is still too shit to even know the dangers the universe at large is actually facing", kinda like a children who doesn't understand complex economical theories who might mean his father loses his job.
But then it all went to "becomes machines and kills organics to prevent machines killing organics", and, most of all, the writing went completely to shit so it failed in every conceivable way.
Writers with talent can salvage a stupid concept by presenting it in a great way. Shitty writers make everything seems stupid.
The really shit the bed with the rest of the story
>>338290482
>Our motives are essentially to destroy sentient beings once they reach technological advanceness to prevent them from creating AI that would destroy them, as a means of protecting them.
No, he wasn't lying.
thank >>338296321
>>338293101
I agree. "Their motives are incomprehensible" is basically just an cheap way to make lazy writing seem deep and profound.
>>338296578
They don't cull populations, they completely exterminate them.
>>338296584
Well, the Leviathans simply said to preserve organic life. It was the reapers themselves that came to the conclusion that any organic life would ultimately die, or possibly take everything out with it in the process. So they made them into more reapers. It's a simple, but effective method. It's just that the execution was really stupid.
>>338296779
To be fair, that plot would have boiled down to Global Warming in Space, which would have sucked ass.
>>338295581
ME2 was loosely introducing the idea of dark energy, and drew's overall plot roadmap was going use this idea. Rather than "we must kill because robots (like us) will take over so we must stop this killing by killing", the plot was going to be more along the lines of: "organics are unknowingly tapping into dark energy and putting the universe into a reverse big bang, so rippers keep killing to protect the universe while simultaneously finding a species that has biotics (something rippers can't use) that could reverse the dark energy.
I mean dark energy is pretty much space magic, but that would've been what's incomprehensible to humans, and would've salvaged what they started.
>>338296340
>Anything can be explained in a simple manner.
Hm, interesting hypothesis.
How would you go about explaining, let's say mixed lubrication regimes in Stribeck plots to a 6 year old, without losing any of it's meaning? Or maybe something less technical - the US intervention in Chile in 1973?
If you can't explain that to a 6 year old without losing any details in translation, why is it inconceivable that humans would not be able to understand an alien life form?
>>338296779
>"your scientifical knowledge is still too shit to even know the dangers the universe at large is actually facing"
As a concept that is perfectly understandable. We may not know the specifics, but the basic idea is simple enough
mass effect such a shit game lmao.. ppl still play it?
pic related mass effect fanboys
>>338296578
We only do that because animals don't have the intelligence for us to talk to them and try to figure out another solution. The Reapers don't have that problem. And I would think that a race of sentient spaceships who perfected FTL travel would have the technology to create a more humane solution to the problem.
>>338296245
you cant even understand the posts you're responding to, how do you expect to understand robotic space squids?
>>338296995
Why do you need to include all the details? They're not essential to conceptualize the basic idea
>>338290482
>you cannot comprehend our motives
>everyone complains that their motives make no sense
the fuck did you shitters expect?
>>338297316
Then they're just lazy and/or don't really care about human life all that much. I'm sure we could also just sterilize a certain amount of the population but can't really be bothered
>>338296290
Lions sound like awesome conversationalists
>>338296393
That's why there are other bits of language that can explain other bits of language. Like the tired cliche of "someone says something complicated and somebody else sums it up in an analogy.
>>338296995
You don't need to include details, you can talk about it at the conceptual level. This isn't difficult man.
>>338292784
But human intelligence varies betweeen individuals...
No, what's even more, it doesn't even have to do with intelligence. Some people motivations rely on personal beliefs that others cannot comprehend. For example: a sociopath could never understand the motivations of a person that follows a strong moral code of never lying, defending those who cannot defend themselves, etc.
SO my guess is that at least a tiny portion of humans COULD understand an alien's motivations to do things, since each individual has different capabilities and personal beliefs that greatly affects his/her ability to understand motivation behind an action.
Bioware writers were just lazy / didn't know what the fuck they were doing / thought they were doing Mass Effect 1, ME2 at most and that they would never need to develop the plot further than that point.
>>338296578
Culling does not equal exterminating.
>>338297598
he did explain the basic idea without details
salvation through destruction
>>338292962
>Talking to a race of mindless drones.
>>338297725
Something that was incomprehensible as opposed to something that was retarded.
>>338297725
For their motives to never be explained.
>>338297598
>Why do you need to include all the details?
Because that is needed to understand. You can not claim to understand when you only grasp the basic concept. Wittgenstein used the word 'verstehen' (understand) rather than 'recognise' or 'understand a bit'. I could not claim I understand the concept of single nucleotide polymorphism just by skimming the abstract of the wikipedia article.
Maybe the meaning of the english 'understand' is the problem here. I am not talking about recognising the words, I'm talking about an understanding - like scholars study to understand someone else's research.
>we need to kill you so you don't build machines that will kill you
Why the fuck did they scrap the dark energy plot?
"Incomprehensible" is a stupid fucking theory. The fact that humans are both sentient and capable of amassing new knowledge means that nothing can be incomprehensible.
>>338297952
Who, Sovereign? He doesn't explain shit. It's in the second game that it is explained, and the motivation from the second game is immensely less than what we were led to believe from the first game. This is not difficult to grasp.
>>338298124
Changed writers.
It really is that simple.
>>338298152
What if they perceive reality differently?
>>338296995
Nice Strawman....
Their motivations weren't complex in the slightest. If it was truly incomprehensible then they wouldn't even bother trying to explain it or even interact with those that wouldn't.
If they believe that a race would be advanced enough to pose a threat to them, themselves, or anything else on a cosmic scale, then they can at least assume that people would understand why they were being killed.
The language barrier wouldn't make a compelling argument either since they have a perfect understanding of English,
Is it so far to say the reapers could just send an emissary to tell anyone on the verge of true AI tech that they're going to fuck up? No. The fact of the matter is Reapers were flawed from the start with their thinking and refused to change because "It just worked".
>>338293101
>>338292096
Do people forget that this mysticism creates a fear beyond anything that you could understand or know?
Isn't the most fearsome thing something unknown?
>>338298124
Because 2 had different writers.
>>338291395
That justification really was beyond my comprehension though.
Well played Sovereign.
>>338298152
But it's cool and edgy to talk about how shitty and stupid humans are.
>>338298271
This is why the G-Man from Half-Life will never be explained if Valve has any sense. Any explanation for his actions will undo all his intrigue.
>>338297913
Well, then I guess it's safer for us to die via a controlled method than just by accidentally fucking ourselves up and doing who knows what in the process
>>338298152
Can you comprehand something having no beginning?
>>338298249
It is possible for us to understand that such a thing is possible. "Hard to imagine" is not the same thing as "incomprehensible".
>can literally one-shot Reapers with their squid brains
>got their asses kicked anyway
WUT
>>338298280
Drew was still there for most of 2's development and had a role in the decision to move away from the dark energy plot.
>>338294185
A human mind cannot fathom the size of the universe - as an example for "something big"
>>338298535
It's magic I ain't gotta explain shit
-bioware writers
>>338298084
This is about the reaper's motives though. Even if the execution of their plan is somehow too complex to understand, their motivation shouldn't be too difficult
>>338298516
I imagine it's like being able to see colors that the human eye cannot.
The "incomprehensible" part would be them saying that no human or other sentient could know what they're feeling.
>>338298228
This is, essentially the reason why lore inconsistency and retcons exist across all mediums. I wish people would realize that instead of trying to use mental gymnastics and head canon to rationalize the shift in a story.
>>338298271
Yeah but it would have been enough if they'd just never have said anything and people would have been left wondering what they're doing. When they come in your face and go like ha ha I could tell you but you're too dumb, it just becomes corny and makes them less distant since they're speaking English to us
>>338290482
>cannot comprehend our motives
Actually he was right because most of you simpletons that hate the game really don't get their motives. They wipe out all ADVANCED life leaving lesser undeveloped worlds to flourish. The Reapers are programmed in thinking synthetics will eventually wipe out all organic life 100%.
I was originally commenting this bit, and I guess exploiting the slightly sloppy wording.
>But if it's just straight forward reasoning it should be explainable with a flowchart or something no matter how big
I only disagreed with the notion that 'no matter how big', any straightforward idea (I guess straightforward to an alien) of an ancient alien civilisation should be explainable.
In terms of the Reapers, it was dumbed down to an almost trivial level, I'll give you that. But maybe that's the lesson learned - we've been given the analogue of an explanation for a 6-year old.
>>338290482
It was pretty much explained in that one DLC for ME3 where you meet one of the creators of the reapers.
The orders given to the reapers was "preserve life" or some shit, so the reapers started harvesting everyone, probably for some plan to eventually create the perfect organic lifeform or some shit.
>>338299008
> The Reapers are programmed in thinking synthetics will eventually wipe out all organic life 100%.
No they were not. Get your facts straight before you start insulting others you turbonerd.
>>338299008
That's not incomprehensible at all. They didn't even mention that last part you ninny. And if they had, it's not as if organic life will stop people from fighting back. PLUS the Geth are proof that synthetics won't do that.
>>338294563
>>338294563
Uh, there was no chance against them in ME3 without the Catalyst too, fool. It just feels like they stood a chance because it takes like a decade to completely kill off the universe.
My brain has blocked out most of ME3 to protect itself, what was the purpose of the Crucible and the Star Babby again?
>>338299339
To piss off fans of the series.
>>338299339
Currently playing through ME3, because I decided to finally just play the entire series to get it over with.
The DLCs is suprisingly competent and actually have good story. The main story is a mess though and reeks of being rushed. Why the fuck would they rush the last game in this series when it was so successfull?
>>338299339
The crucible was a planet sized middle finger to the reapers that hundreds of alien species tried and failed to build. In the ME3 they successfully construct the middle finger, the main reaper AI throws a hissy fit like a kid, and gives shepard access to the admin tools.
>>338290482
This makes me so sad we'll never get proper sequels.
RIP ME1. You were the game the world could not comprehend so we turned you into emo gears of war.
>>338299694
That makes no fucking sense
>>338290482
This was such a cool moment in the game cause it just felt like a standard mission and boom this mother fucker pops up and starts talking shit. Shame about the sequels.
>>338299815
Nothing in ME3 makes sense.
They don't even know what the fucking thing does to begin with and yet they devote all their resources to building it.
Why cant we ever have a happy ME3 thread? Its better that 80% of the games most of you play yet you all shit on this one, mostly, because /v/ told you to.
>>338299127
Well, if it was literally too big for anyone to understand in any way, they could simply say we're just one cog in something bigger
>>338300204
The Reapers were right up their asses and the Protheans were in the process of building it. Wtf else are they going to do?
>>338295341
In order to understand the lion you need to know what its experiences of the world are, like the difference between how we understand the world and what it really is. Like a philosophy student being in a rocket science lecture. The lecturer would be speaking in comprehensible English but the understanding of what they are trying to explain would be difficult unless you were in their shoes.
>>338300431
I don't consider it a bad game, I thoroughly enjoyed it. While I do think ME2 is a better overall game, I liked how in ME3 I always felt that pressure of the impending apocalypse looming over me. There was never really a moment of "ah well, let's explore this bit over here for a while", I felt somewhat pressured by the narrative to act quickly and being careful about wasting time.
>>338290482
He didn't lie. The motives are so nonsense that I still can't wrap my head around it.
>>338300431
>main story was shit.
>has literally the worst ending in video game history
>sloppily tied up most plot arcs
>gameplay was boring, gunplay unsatisfying
>some squad members from 1&2 barely get a cameo
>kai fucking leng and cerberus in general
>IT WAS ALL JUST A DREAM BRO PLEASE BUY OUR DLC
Gee I wonder why there aren't any happy ME3 threads ever
>>338293101
>It just sounds like a hand-wave, if there's some kind of logical reasoning behind it, it shouldn't be difficult to explain it
Can you explain morality to a dog? Can you teach a chimpanzee quantum mechanics? Can you enlighten ants by showing them capitalism?
No. because those concepts are beyond their understanding. The same thing would happen to humans if we found a species beyond OUR understanding. We can't imagine those concepts, because by definition we can't. It's an entirely valid point.
>>338300632
Do you honestly believe, here and now, that a lion talking about how it likes to fuck lionesses and has to fend off younger male lions sometimes would be difficult to understand?
The lecturer (Reaper) need only to explain its motivations at the conceptual level and elaborate where it can using lesser pieces of language. Just as in movies and television where a smart character says something very smart, and another character summarizes it in a simple analogy.
>>338300632
So only to the lion and other english speaking lions, it would only make sense to them unless you were raised by said lions.
>>338300978
>has literally the worst ending in video game history
Nah
>>338300996
Dogs, and chimps don't have the same capacity for thought as humans so that's a moot comparison.
>>338293554
People would have bitched and said BioWare were lazy or wrote themselves into a corner, but it would have been WAY less of a shitstorm than what we got.
>>338300563
Devote their resources to build more fucking ships, nukes, anything?
They can clearly destroy reapers with their current technology so anything would be better than building a device that could just as well be a fucking trap that might explode in their face.
And they didn't know the Protheans were building it until much, much later in the story.
>>338300632
Too deep for neo /v/.
Mass Effect is the best example that sometimes things are better left unexplained.
The reapers worked much better when they were this cosmic horror rather than idiot limited AI.
>>338298535
>All Reapers look like us because Harbinger was made in our image and he was the first Reaper from which all other Reapers were designed after
>Please ignore all these Reaper designs at the end of ME2. That never happened.
>>338300996
We can't even speak to them. It should not be impossible to explain a concept to a human
>mass effect 1
Reapers are lovecraftian abominations from beyond the stars
>mass effect 3
Lol they're just big space ships
>>338299339
To resolve the Reapers quickly because the writers had no ither ways of thinking around it. Also because they wasted a third of the trilogy doing nothing Reaper related.
>>338300978
>has literally the worst ending in video game history
Play more video games. Bloodborne has a 10 second clip of the Doll holding you as a squid with no coherent reason as to why and it does not even get a fraction of the hate ME3 does. Same goes for the rest of the From Software game's endings.
>>338301059
That's not even true though, people are able to conclude things from animal behavior just by looking at them. If a lion was literally explaining to me why it's doing something, there would be nothing incomprehensible about it
>>338301414
The ending of ME1 already portrayed Sovereign as a big space ship with advanced technology.
>>338301580
This is irrelevant anyway, because they DO clearly explain their intentions at the end of ME3. It's fucking retarded, but we know what they were doing.
>>338301580
That is from observation though. Visual Ques. Not through verbal communication.
>>338301517
Some things left unexplained is still better than blatantly ignoring all logic and previously established lore.
>>338300632
The lecturer would be explaining how to make a rocket go
>>338301517
Bloodborne isn't part of a trilogy and a huge build up.
>>338301219
There was no chance of defeating the Reapers, son. All their fighting back is just survival and slowing down the threat.
>>338301983
True, but there is still not one fucking sane reason to build that thing.
>>338298034
Implying humans aren't mindless drones
>>338301284
It's not all Reapers, idiot. They have different types with different purposes in the game.
>>338301754
Verbal communication would be way easier. Much harder to look at someone doing something, try to kinda guess why they're doing it and then continue looking at them until you're pretty sure you know what's happening. If the lion just told me that it's going to sleep on this particular rock because its mane looks good from this angle, it would be much more straight forward
>>338302290
Yet we only ever see 2 in ME3; the Sovereign types and the little ones you fight on Tuchunka and Rannoch.
>>338301517
Why in the fuck are you comparing a trilogy that was years in the making to a single entity of a game? Are you that much of a fucking fanboy?
>>338293370
It would've made sense if they continued the motives set up in ME2, but they scrapped it for the shitty AI plot.
>>338301069
>replacing "fag" with "cuck"
t. newfag
I'll give them credit for one thing.
The whole series they kept going "these things are gonna shitstomp us when they show up" and that's exactly what happens in 3.
>>338294185
That flowchart would be bigger than all our libraries combined. And that's the short version of it.
>>338301886
Thats no excuse. You were getting conclusions throughout ME3 concerning the genophage and the geth situations which they could not throw into the ending you babies loath so much because Shepard is killed off.
>>338301112
Humans don't have the same capacity for thought as some interdimensional, eldricht alien horrors, so that's a moot post.
>>338302547
Well of course. It's the main storyline of the trilogy.
It would make no fucking sense to defeat them in the intro cinematic now would it?
>>338302727
It would still be a flowchart that you can follow. And if the plan was that complex, they could just reduce it to saying that killing us is one part of a bigger plan. Like a clock where if you take one cog out it doesn't work anymore
>>338302547
>The whole series they kept going "these things are gonna shitstomp us when they show up" and that's exactly what happens in 3.
Not really.
The first game has the entire damn alliance attacking Sovereign and he just fucks them up so bad it is almost inconceivable they coud fight another one.
ME3 has you dropping them like flies on every occasion.
It's just a cheap Free Space knock-off, anyway.
>>338302426
Nitpicking. Have the assumption that a for combat.
>>338302801
The Reapers can speak english. They have the ability to explain their motivations at the conceptual level for humans. Read the fucking thread we've been over this:
>>338297598
>>338297815
>>338299996
>>338299999
I still like 2 just fine even though it felt like certain things were dumbed down.
>>338303001
>ME3 has you dropping them like flies on every occasion.
Absurd exaggeration.
>>338290482
This is why I always point out how terrible ME2 and 3 are because of the premise for both stories. Sovereign literally says "We are Lovecraftian technology monsters. You will not get a satisfying explanation from us."
If Mass Effect was just the world intro with the Reaper plot to send you around the galaxy and learn about it. Mass Effect 2 should have been about literally anything else. Like a war between the Geth and the Quarians, maybe some resolution to the genophage plot, using the Krogan could even become allies for the Quarians through shepard's actions.
They could have done anything but the Reapers and it would have been more interesting. Now EA has to reboot the entire series just to make a fourth, which will also be about the Reapers because there is nothing else in the Mass Effect universe.
Fuck. Still mad.
>>338303171
He's right you know.
You blow one up while you're ON FOOT for fucks sake.
>>338302978
>It would still be a flowchart that you can follow.
Yes. And perhaps after a billion years you'd finally reach the final point in that flowchart. But you wouldn't understand it as it would deal in concepts which you as a human have no words or expressions for.
>And if the plan was that complex, they could just reduce it to saying that killing us is one part of a bigger plan.
Well, that's what they basically say in ME1, isn't it?
>>338290482
>I guess he just lied.
he proved he was right, we din't understand basic concept of saving galaxy from ourself
>>338303278
>Well, that's what they basically say in ME1, isn't it?
Not really. They said there's no way to understand, but it is very easy to understand that killing us is required for something else to happen
The entire fucking story is retarded in ME1-3, no one could honestly believe they weren't just pulling shit out of their ass near the end in 3. That's why they're literally throwing away the entire first three of the series and rebooting it with Andromeda.
>No start or end.
Lol hai I'm levithain, I created an AI to kill myself by accident, because a highly intelligent species wouldn't make a fail safe, our death is the answer so the next set of species can evolve to a state of Y and die when they reach it.
That sums it up, that's all you need to know about the series, GG on lore Bioshit.
>>338303201
>Mass Effect 2 should have been about literally anything else
Mass Effect 2 was good, it was relatively close to its roots, in first game you played as 70's cop shop detective, chasing rogue specter, then as always, after being used and no longer needed discarded by alliance you joining Cerberus was fuking great, looking for Collectors and what the fuck is going on, going to Omega doing loyalty quests, romancing Jack, then we go to ME 3 and its all of a sudden fucking hollywood blockbuster everything is climaxing and exploding asian Adam Jansen is chasing you, acting as God Emperor of making messiah saving everyone from themself and forging intergalactic alliances, Cerberus is no longer something thats mysterious or riding the gray line, and it just continues on and on of what the fuk is going on shit adding up.
Them abandoning Dark Energy plot retarded
Them abandoning indoctrination plotwist was probably biggest misplay in video game history
>>338303984
But you don't join Cerberus of your own will because anyone discarded you. You joined them because they rebuilt you when everyone thought you were dead. Then everyone didn't want to work with you because of the shitty "lol cerberus bad guize". ME2s plot was shit for the most part.
>>338290482
Would it have been better if the reaper thread was stopped in ME1, and the sequels each focusing on a new plot/enemy?
Like, we might have stopped some ancient technological horror from reaching our galaxy, but we can't ever be sure, they will always be in the darkness of space. It can't even be said for sure if the Reapers were real and we just dealt with one manic AI. I prefer some mystery to this, which would lead to some good speculation
>>338299815
Essentially, the universe is a big puzzle. The Crucible is an AI and up into this point in the universe, the end of ME3, no race has successfully made it that far into making the crucible because there's always been a terrorist organization in the species before humans that would attack it, or reveal it to the reapers in time.
Even though this also happens in this course of the universe, somehow Shepard is still successful. Since he/she's successful, the crucible AI gives him/her three new choices.
Essentially, which ever choice he/she chooses, is going to repeat itself in the next "reset" of the universe when that set of species is wiped out by unfortunately creating another set of AI that will repeat what the reapers were originally made to do, preserve life by killing life. Because life isn't just humans/everything that lives in that cycle, but everything in the universe.
It's pretty fucking stupid.
>>338303984
I have to disagree. ME2 was where it all fell down.
It isn't a bad game, but it doesn't advance the series, instead being reductionist and overly simple. The biggest problem being cutting features from the first game and replacing them with nothing, or in some cases making them much, much worse.
An example would be the simple hacking mini-game from the first game which takes less than 5 seconds to understand and complete. The hacking in ME2 is clunky, awkward, and requires explanation (and the devs were so certain of that they put explanation for each visible at all times playing).
The story being a series of dis-joined vignettes just makes the whole experience come off as broken, clearly just for easy drop in DLC. The story sets up the villain in the first scene, hits the reset button for no reason other than a shock for the trailers, then you're literally doing the same mission as the first game gather a crew to fight the Reapers. Only this time, you know exactly what the Reapers are, where they are, and what they are doing. You don't know exactly why, but it isn't hard to figure out it isn't a good thing.
The plot of the first game had you gathering a crew as consequence of needing assistance learning who your enemies are and what their plans were. The characters were directly related to the villains in some fashion (some by blood) and they contributed to the plot more than just being an ability in combat.
The original wasn't a masterpiece, but it hit all the beats of a classic sci-fi story. The sequel just says "Do it all again, that'll be $50."
It wasn't a bad game, but it was a sign that the developers were creatively bankrupt.
>>338303171
>That part where just the NORMANDY SR2 alone takes one out while you're on foot FUCKING AIM ASSISTING the normandy.
It's not an exaggeration at all.
>>338300204
ITs like Admiral Hacket said, Humans build atom bomb thinking that it could ignite entire atmosphere, it din't stop us from dropping it
>>338301219
>build more fucking ships, nukes, anything?
Let's build these things that don't work senpai
> Ayo hol up, wut about dem Prothianiggas plans for some sort of massive weapon ?
Nah fuk that
>>338301409
you can tell a dog to sit, stay. Basic commands for rudimentary understanding. Perhaps that's what the reapers were doing with us.
>>338304732
The Genophage plot with the Krogan, Salarians, etc. could've been a game all its own to be honest. It's one of the more involving parts of ME1 and ME2.
>Beating a dead horse.
Fuck off OP, i still love the series and i don't wanna remember the bad things.
>>338301414
You had to have been a complete doofus with zero experience in fiction to have fell for the "we are incomprehensible" horseshit. That's your problem, the idea was bad and the writing didn't help. I was still in high school and still rolled my eyes.
>>338301409
You most definitely can speak to animals. Dogs understand a limited selection of human words, and chimpanzees can learn sign language. Your argument doesn't follow at all.
>>338305312
> The Genophage plot with the Krogan, Salarians
Is the galaxy at stake ?
> No
Fuck the Krogans
> Yes
Cure the Krogans, then bomb them again
>>338290482
>>338291395
>People holding the Reapers in Mass Effect 1 in high regard
Then perhaps you can explain to me how a machine can be without beginning?
>>338305549
>>338305549
>>338305549
>I was still in high school and still rolled my eyes.
Whoa bro, how many cars did you end up burning by the time you finished
>>338305312
Exactly, it felt a bit rushed, there could have been so much more to it. We could still have had a great moment with Mordin, but with a lot more time and focus on him changing his stance on the genophage
>>338305770
The morality of it, friendo. As it stands I feel like it wasn't what it could've been.
>>338305770
The galaxy doesn't have to be at stake necessarily. A Specter is just a galactic sheriff and the Genophage could be another thing to deal with that escalates and escalates.
>>338305224
>Let's build these things that don't work senpai
Yeah we definitely did not have a dead reaper at the end of ME1. And we also never reverse engineered part of their technology and equipped most of our ships with it.
>>338306220
>And we also never reverse engineered part of their technology and equipped most of our ships with it.
Because the cleaners of the citadel made sure to clean up the place, so nobody had any parts to work with. That was even a plot point
>>338305885
What did he mean by this?
We all know that ME1 was the best right?
>>338306360
Nigger what? The thanix cannon would like a word with you.
>>338301219
>Devote their resources to build more fucking ships, nukes, anything?
That's like telling the UK to build more of everything in the middle of WW2, after Germany managed to get them off from the rest of the empire.
>>338306220
>Yeah we definitely did not have a dead reaper at the end of ME1
> Sacrificed 3rd of entire Alliance fleet, to literally accomplish nothing
> Shepard kills sovereigns avatar
> this causes corruption for few moments and shield drops
> Literally takes entire fleet whats left of it to blast it to shit
> years later we still haven't fully rebuild our fleet
lul
> reverse engineered part of their technology
Everything was scrapped and cleared out to rebuild Citadel, even if they had recovered something it would take years upon years to get around indoctrination properties and do something for it
>>338306535
I'm talking about the remains of Sovereign, I thought you where as well.
>>338303232
>>338305052
Someone wasn't paying attention! The one you take out "on foot" was an entire fleet bombarding it. Remember depending on your actions the Quarians and the Geth are both up there.
Also the reapers get BTFO by superior Turian tactics if you read some of the codex stuff.
>>338306784
During the cleanup, the turians secretly salvaged Sovereign's powerful main gun along with much of the weapon's element zero core. Eleven months later, the turians introduced the Thanix, a scaled-down version of the weapon.
>>338306481
No.
We retcon..I mean we reverse engineered our weapons to have mags again
>>338306784
The thanix cannon is literally reverse engineered from the remains of Sovereign.
Maybe you should actually play the fucking game before you start arguing about lore.
>>338306952
>>338307019
Right forgot that part,
![maxresdefault[2].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/bZT23Ua.jpg "maxresdefault[2].jpg")
>>338306820
> Yo dog let me tell you about that time we totally outplayed the Reapers bro, so they ware on Palaven, completely burning it and we ware hiding i mean holding defensive position on our moon right ...
>>338306820
>Also the reapers get BTFO by superior Turian tactics if you read some of the codex stuff.
you mean kamikaze strikes?
>>338305052
There is also the entire quarian fleet.
A more acurate exemple would be the finale battle, where thousands of reapers don't seem to bother the galactic fleet
>>338306820
Not that one. The one on earth with the mccain or whatever the fuck that mini nuke weapon was called.
>>338307134
....ok so their ground forces were kinda shitty but there was plenty of examples of their dreadnoughts luring reapers away and then laser-bukkaking them to death.
Remember, Mass Effect 3's story had to be completely changed due to time constraints.
Originally, the Reapers were trying to compile all of their knowledge ever gleaned from organic civilizations and the advancements they made in order to stop a singularity at the center of the universe that was steadily gaining mass and on the verge of ending all life permanently, synthetic and organic.
>>338291395
>"We are beyond your comprehension. We are on a plain you couldn't fathom."
I fucking loved that feel of omnipotence in reapers.
>Tfw you find out reapers are whole nations or species' minds blended together uploaded into super computers.
Kinda cool, made me think back and agree with Sovereign.
>ME1
>Their motives are incomprehensible
>ME3
>Explain their motives
nice mystery
>>338307486
The futuristic SCUD launcher right near the end? Struggling to remember it now
>time for another playthrough
>>338296892
They don't exterminate them at all, they preserve them. It's not their fault that most creatures are so attached to the flesh.
>>338296779
>>338296942
>>338296992
Would've prefered this idea, because then reapers wouldn't have been straight up evil.
>>338290482
No, the writers were just stupid and wrote in one of the oldest, lamest sff cliches without any idea of how to resolve it. You can blame a lot of ME3's shit writing on the Walters and his team of butt buddies but not this, this was destined to be shit from word one.
>>338308401
>No, the writers were just stupid and wrote in one of the oldest, lamest sff cliches without any idea of how to resolve it
>>338303201
>>338303984
ME2 is my favorite game in the series, but even I have to admit that it sowed the seeds for ME3's massive disappointment. All the character side stories were great, and as cartoonish as Cerberus was becoming it wasn't game breaking just yet. But the main plot didn't move anything forward, and in fact started to dismantle the mystique behind the Reapers. Plus, instead of learning from ME2's missteps, ME3 doubled down on them, turning it into even more of a shooter and inflating Cerberus to fucking ridiculousness.
>>338306481
It was the purest game, with the most thought-out concepts and plot, yes. I think ME2's better because it was successful enough at merging ME1 with a fun shooter, but it's not as true to itself as ME1 managed to be.
>>338291395
So what you're saying is you didn't understand their reasoning. What's the issue? Oh yeah, tortanic happened.
>In the end, what does it matter? Your survival depends on stopping them, not in understanding them
Bioware gave the best possible answer to the Reaper question in 1, then completely forgot it
>>338299339
It's beyond your comprehension
>>338301517
Except that the final 10 minutes of ME3 ruins literally the entire series and universe.
>>338307760
>singularity meme
The writer of 1 and 2 said that was never "the plan" like you shitposters want to believe it was. It was an idea they had while making 2, but it was never hard and fast the planned story for 3.
Stop spreading rumors you heard on /v/.
>>338309270
ME1 had best story and characters
ME2 had best gameplay. It was a little weaker in story and characters, but it was decent enough. They just had to balance it out for the third game to make a great finale.
And they failed.
>>338309903
Look at all these proofs bro, fukin hell, that sure showed me ;)
>>338310176
I feel like 3 had the best gameplay and 2 was the best in terms of polish, aesthetics, art style and character dialogue. 1 was a space opera and 2 was a space adventure, and they both worked in their own ways. 3 was a good game (meaning the gameplay part) with an awful story and characters.
>>338305779
What are you on about?
>>338305779
they were kids when they played it, give them a break
ME1
>You are not Saren
ME2
>SHEPARD SHEPARD SHEPARD SHEPARD SHEPARD
ME3
>durr herp derp durp doo derp Mac Walters is a fucking hack
>>338310190
Nice shitpost, but just try asking for a source next time.
>describing the plot thread as "something that wasn't super fleshed out"
>"Again it's very vague and not fleshed out, it was something we considered but we ended up going in a different direction.
>I find it funny that fans end up hearing a couple things they like about it and in their minds they add in all the details they specifically want," he explained. "It's like vapourware - vapourware is always perfect, anytime someone talks about the new greatest game. It's perfect until it comes out. I'm a little weary about going into too much detail because, whatever we came up with, it probably wouldn't be what people want it to be.
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2013-06-19-ex-bioware-writer-discusses-dropped-ideas-for-mass-effect-trilogy-ending
Got any proof the singularity was the original plan for ME3?
I didn't think so.
There was even leaked plot details about 3 with Javik being the catalyst and the singularity shit wasn't even in that.
>>338311135
>This again
We get it, it's cooler when the villain doesn't acknowledge you. But shit changed. Reapers wanted Shepard for experiments after getting their attention by killing Sovereign. Give it a god damn rest.
>>338293696
What a world we live in where the Brethren Moons make more sense as villains than the Reapers.
![maxresdefault[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/zkpoDqE.jpg "maxresdefault[1].jpg")
>>338311549
>>338307486
Are you talking about the automated anti-air gun that isn't a reaper?
It's been a while since I've played 3 so I can't remember this shit.
>>338311764
>no rebuttal
>implies a fallacy on my part
>no proof for original claim
>ignoring direct quotes from the writer
Blow me faggot.
>>338295994
Yes, but in that case whoever is speaking with the physicist can take time to research and learn what the fuck they are talking about. If something is truly going to be unknowable, it has to perceive the universe in a way that a human can never possibly perceive.
Are you still mad?
![9g0omS3[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/e7uxEDh.jpg "9g0omS3[1].jpg")
>>338312351
>>338309868
Why and how?
>>338312641
>pretending to be this retarded
Summer, genuine retard, or nerd trying to get some jollies on 4chan?
>>338307229
is that what I think it is ?
fuck the Japanese were fucking insane
>>338312384
![DCIMsqN[1].gif](https://i.imgur.com/qoX3CMu.gif "DCIMsqN[1].gif")
>>338312776
>>338298343
They solved this by not making any more games.
The problem is that "incomprehensible" really only works in written works, and not in anything visual.
If you try to do Lovecraftian horror in a videogame, you've already failed, since there's very little you can leave to the imagination
I really enjoyed 1. 2 was pretty good. Had better combat but the human ayylmao boss at the end kinda killed it for me. Should i bother playing 3? I already know its a disappointing ending but is everything up to that point at least worth seeing?
>>338290482
It was the perfect beginning.
It had the perfect answer.
Instead we got the reason why there never will be a Half-Life 3.
>>338313343
Not really.
And the ending will completely sour the entire trilogy for you. You will never go back to playing 1 or 2 because of it.
Mass Effect is the closest thing to a Revelation Space game that I am going to get. I just wish that it hadn't fallen so flat.
>>338301517
You became an infant Great One.
>>338313061
>Tumblr image
>Imgur filename
Eat shit and die
>>338312384
Never not mad.
>>338312384
>5 hours ago
I'm triggered, I want to know what date that post is from but because of this gay "x hours ago" shit it's impossible to tell. I hope you don't use that format instead of normal times
>>338313497
>Revelation Space
My fucking nigga.
Sadly it also have a shitty ending.
I liked the Reapers better when they were the Kohr-Ah
>>338315374
The Kohr-Ah also had logic that wasn't retarded. In fact, it's the Kzer-Za's policy that led to the downfall of the Ur-Quan.
>>338295263
>>338295341
>>338296340
>trying to explain Wittgenstein to the retards on /v/
>>338318078
Lions really aren't that complex
>>338307886
>>Tfw you find out reapers are whole nations or species' minds blended together uploaded into super computers.
The concept is pretty fucking neat. And its something that only bioware and valve could cook up, its absolutely nightmarish to think about it.
that reaper baby at the end of ME2 was fucking dumb though. they should have gone with the concept art.
![Fj8pv9A[1].gif](https://i.imgur.com/Hia9vJk.gif "Fj8pv9A[1].gif")
>>338313901
>>338318078
Well it's probably his fault for thinking that a lion thinks anything more complex than "I'd like something to eat" and "I need to fuck a bitch right now"
>>338301517
If you went through the game to actually get that ending yourself, it's pretty obvious why you're a tiny baby squid monster. Maybe if you skipped all dialog and never read any item descriptions it would seem like there was "no coherent reason"
>>338292096
I's the Borg.
To quote the Queen in First Contact; Brave words. I've heard them before, from thousands of species across thousands of worlds, since long before you were created. But, now they are all Borg.
They are the Borg and they are exactly as stuck up their own cybernetic asses about how right they are adn all must conform to their plans and their ideals.Except Pakled
What's new on the Andromeda front?
Last thing I saw was that webm clip
Humans cannot comprehend infinity. We can't conceptualise "nothing" There is a huge spectrum of colour that we can't distinguish.
To suggest that a hyper ancient civilization with technology millions ahead of us is within our comprehension is ridiculously arrogant. Reapers had existed for at least 1 billion years. The first multicellular organisms appeared on earth around 800 million years ago
