![12074241364l[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/gQbXJ6k.jpg "12074241364l[1].jpg")
Are Denuvo game sales higher on average than similar big triple A games?
>>338278592
Nah, actually they're lower.
It's hard to compare since you can't really tell if any difference in sales is due to Denuvo or other factors, and it's also hard to pick a good comparison point since there's no way to tell how much any given game would have sold without Denuvo.
That said, compared to the top-selling non-Denuvo games, they definitely sell less.
>>338278592
Nope
>>338278729
this
/thread
>>338278931
>>338278729
So piracy is a good thing?
>>338281007
Don't know how you got that out of those posts. They simply answered the question of OP.
Counter question: Is DRM a good thing? What is a "good thing"? Good for who? Why?
Because it's put on overhyped trash like MGSV and DOOM.
>>338281007
That's one possible explanation, though you'd have to bring additional evidence to support such a claim. There are, after all, a lot more possible ways to explain the difference. Maybe it's because DRM in general has a bad reputation, so people would rather not buy games with heavy DRM. Maybe it's just that the games using Denuvo weren't as good as the ones without it, and the DRM had absolutely nothing to do with it. And so forth. Sales numbers alone prove nothing.
>>338281007
I won't say this is my case, but a lot of people pirate their games to know if it's worth 50$ (you know since publishers stopped making demos)
Now that they can't test it, why would they buy it.
And there are other people who don't buy it simply because of DRM
>>338278592
It's not about selling more, dipshit. It's about punishing the people who don't want to pay.
>>338282748
That's bullshit and you know it. The majority of people who pirates a game never buys it.
>>338278592
exactly the same, I don't think they even make returns on using denuvo
sales directly correlate with number of mentions
pirates still do not buy games so for some games it is actually worse sales, specially for ones with mediocre reputation
wait a few quarters and either denuvo will get much cheaper for devs or it will die like securom/starforce
>>338282838
And the only people that get punished are the ones that do pay.
>>338282938
Do you have anything to back this up? How would you know? Or is that just an assumption, pulled out of your ass?
What is this denuvo shit I keep seeing around?
Is it like a new game or some shit?
>>338283360
I do not buy games with denuvo i'm not strongly interested in.
Skipped everything except ROTR, batman and new deusex.
>>338281217
Drm may give devs more incentive to properly port and make games for pc. Or maybe not.
>>338282938
piracy has gone up in proportion to the decline of playable demos
games with playable demos tend to experience less piracy than games without
Where do people even get sales number? Are they made public by the publisher?
>>338283360
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2011-09-30-how-bad-is-pc-piracy-really-article
Now where's YOUR source that pirates buy games.
>>338283762
retail only, digital is aproximation +-20% correct
also quarterly reports of revenue people bothered enough can extrapolate, but not every company makes those open enough
what we will see in a year if revenues stay the same but profits drop due to denuvo pricetag - it will die
if profits rise everyone and their grandma will use it
>>338283570
It's an anti-piracy thing that no one has successfully cracked for over a year.
>>338283994
I pirate and buy games. Do you know why there is a lot of profiles on steam with games at zero hours clocked? All those people are pirates.
They're lower.
And personally I will add that I am someone who needs a demo to drop $60, and since devs now refuse to offer demos, I pirate games to try them before I buy them, now Rise of the Tomb raider, Just Cause 3, Lords of the Fallen and Doom will never get my money because I have no ability to gauge their worth.
>>338283994
take your pick.
>>338284249
Yeah, they buy "other" media, but they sure as hell don't buy the stuff they pirate.
>>338284249
or this one
http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2010/05/file-sharers-are-content-industrys-largest-customers/
>>338283725
Or maybe it's because tech has increased so piracy is a lot easier
>>338284475
Bruh, if I didn't have to spend money on the actual music, you can bet your ass I'd have money for concerts and merch.
>>338282938
I used to do it all the time.
Due to "testing," I bought:
>The Witcher 3
>The Sims 4
>Saints Row IV
>Fallout 3
>Street Fighter IV
>>338284379
So what are you trying to say is:
A pirate pirates a lot of music, audiobooks, books, movies, tv shows. But he also buys a lot of music, audiobooks, books, movies and tv shows. But if the pirate pirates vidya, he doesn't buy a lot of vidya.
The articles don't differentiate between media. They just say media. Why exactly are video games different, in your eyes? And how did you come to this conclusion? I doubt it was through logic.
Please try to think a bit longer about what you're posting.
>>338284197
Quit lying. You've never bought a game after pirating it in your life. Just admit you're a leech on culture and make everyone's life easier.
>>338284379
How does it matter "what" they're pirating, if in total they spend "more" money? Isn't that what you want?
>>338284850
The article basically equates it to "a guy pirates an episode of a show, so he goes out and buy the dvd season, or he pirates a cd so then he goes to the artists concert and buys merchandise," but the original price of the episode he downloaded or the music he stole is already gone. Meaning they make up more sales, but in other areas besides the one they pirates. Meaning they'll pirate a game, and then buy the DLC or cosmetic items. But the original value of the game is still lost.
>>338284986
I want the money to go to where it needs to be. It's like saying if I steal all my food and car and then spend all my money on hookers. Shouldn't matter, right, since it's all going back into the economy? Wrong!
>>338284852
>Quit lying. You've never bought a game after pirating it in your life. Just admit you're a leech on culture and make everyone's life easier.
I have, I can cite specific examples too (Blacklist, Black Flag, Far Cry 3 all at launch)
Also the Human Revolution leak rather famously caused a 180 in people's perceptions of the game
People went from hating the idea of a deus ex sequel to excited for it, thanks to piracy
If video game piracy is such a huge problem, why does the industry still exist at all? For all the whining, they sure like to splurge on their projects, don't they? How much money did they put into Destiny? $500mil?
>>338285043
Yeah, but DLC and cosmetic items usually are far far above the price of the game if you buy a lot of them.
>>338285135
>I want the money to go to where it needs to be
Where is that? At the publisher?
So, if I pirate an Ubisoft game, and buy 3 other Ubisoft games later, you would still disagree that this is a total net gain for the company?
so how much did it sold ds3?
>>338285421
Nope. Buy the product so the publishers know which studio to continue throwing money at.
>>338285753
You can't tell me to do shit, especially if you have no argument in your favor.
>>338278592
GTAV - 65 millions copies - no Denuvo
Witcher 3 - 10 million copies - no DRM at all!
MGS5 - 6 million copies - Denuvo
Rise of the Tomb Raider - 2,5 millions - Denuvo
Far Cry Primal - unknown, approx 1-1,5 millions - Denuvo
All data from wikipedia.
>>338281007
A couple of small indie studios have independently said that piracy was a boon for them, although it's not a full proper study or anything. Basically the logic they found seems to go that when the game is unpiratable/not pirated or on any torrent sites, sales of the game are low (like, say, 20k) . When the game becomes piratable, that creates word of mouth that seems to increase sales, even if pirate copies far outstrip sales copies (say 150k pirated, but now there are 50k sales).
>>338285708
ds3 is not denuvo
>>338285924
GTA5 had something similar that was removed by crackers eventually and it actually improved performance. My private tracker is currently down so I cant tell you what its named exactly but search for the latest patch crack by w/e scene group did GTA5 and it should be in the release notes
>>338278592
>Are Denuvo game sales higher on average than similar big triple A games?
pro tip OP if Denuvo had actually increased sales by now they'd be bragging about it fucking everywhere
Publishers would kill for a guaranteed sales increase
>>338285924
Witcher 3 to Dragon age is a good comparison
One has zero DRM and one has denuvo
>>338284852
You're the one lying here.
>>338281007
Yes because it creates word of mouth, think of how Game of Thrones is seen by everyone even people without HBO.
Not saying GoT is good but it's how it is.
You can see it with /v/, threads about pirated games will entice some guy to actually buy it because it's easier for him, while shitty games with no demos like Lord of the Fallen will get no word of mouth because fuck paying for something like that.
>>338285924
MGS4 also sold 6 million, in its lifetime. MGSV selling that much in a year is a good sign. Also, GTAV and Witcher would've sold that much regardless due to its marketing. And Tomb Raider and Far Cry would've sold little anyways.
>>338285924
MGS5 had Denuvo shit? How come I pirated and played that shit
Short remindet to ALWAYS pirate before you buy if there is no sufficient demo available.
Only support genuinely good games, espacially if they are made by smaller developers.
Piracy is NOT theft.
>>338285868
I just gave you the article. At the low end, pirates and actual buyers are split 50/50 while some games have it as high as 90/10 in favor of pirates.
>>338284249
fucking this
if you have the know how to pirate Media it shows that you have a huge interest in media...
I pirate shit but I also buy a lot of shit.. actually I spend more money on games then most of my friends.. good games which I know are worth buying
here are a few examples for games I pirated to check them out and then bought them
>GTA 5
>Stranded deep
>Nuclear throne
but now with Denuvo... is DOOM worth buying? idk but I sure won't pay 30€ to find out...
they had a 50% chance of me buying the game if I would pirate it and then buy it if it's worth the money but if I can't even try then it's 0% chance that I buy
>>338278592
There's literally no way to make an accurate statistic for this. No one knows.
>>338286093
>Witcher 3 to Dragon age is a good comparison
No it's not, Witcher 3 is so much better than that shit Denuvo doesn't factor in at all.
>>338284063
Blatantly false.
>>338286486
Again, dipshits, it's not about profits. It's about punishment. It's there to keep the people who refuses to pay from playing the game. People like to go "oh well, it's not like they would buy it anyway if they didn't pirate it," well now they cannot play it, period.
I have over 4000 albums on my computer, all of which is pirated, but I also own roughly 800 records on vinyl, hundreds of CDs, and a couple hundred cassette tapes. I pirate a shit load of games, and also have almost 500 games on steam. I don't typically buy things unless I can get them for free first.
>>338286320
So in conclusion DRM is irrelevant?
>>338286486
Doom is pirate-worthy because of the good single player but SUPERAIDS multiplayer.
>>338286680
Denuvo isn't DRM, it's anti-tamper. Steam, Origin and Uplay are DRM.
>>338286661
>steam game
>buying shit when they're so on sale that the devs don't even get any profit from it
Might as well pirate it if you're going to brag about your steam account
>>338286649
Basing a business around punishment instead of profit is an astoundingly poor financial decision.
>>338286649
Again, dipshit, the only people that get punished are the paying customers. The pirate will just play another game and don't give two fucks. How is that punishment?
>>338286680
Again, it's not about profit. It's about punishment. How many more times does this have to be repeated.
>>338286649
So you support the screwing over of paying customers just to do the digital equivalent of flipping the bird at people who aren't customers?
I'm not buying anything unless I can try it first. Either a demo or a free pirate copy.
Last game I bought was the division, if I had the chance to try that piece of shit I would've never bought it in the first place.
Jews capitalize on this. Fuck them.
>>338286649
are you retarded? companies do not buy several millions worth of software just to punish 300 thousand people. corporations do not work on emotions, some butthurt CEOs might but they would have to explain why did they spend those money for zero benefit to investors
>>338286832
The paying customers get to play the game. Those who don't pay doesn't. I don't see how this is a punishment.
>>338286856
How is it bad for the people that are willing to pay for the game?
>>338286753
the "devs" never get any profit from it, even if you buy the game full price, moron.
Devs have only themselves to blame since 90% f games these days have no demos, and instead just expect you to buy the game and a season pass right away. It's no wonder why people pirate
>>338285135
Anon, those hookers will then pay the grocery stores to buy their own food, and give a percentage to their pimp who will go pay the car companies to get his new ride.
What do you think happens when you pay a hooker? Of course it goes back into the economy.
no.
but this is a good thing. denuvo is a good thing. its proving what we always told the developers. shit like this wont increase sales
>>338286836
But how does it punish anyone? Pirates obviously have no investment in the game. What do they lose?
What you're describing is the equivalent of throwing out a steak to make a vegan angry.
>>338282838
And yet it only ends up punishing those that do
>>338287121
They don't get to play.
>>338287135
>I buy the game
>I get the game
>I play the game
Oh no, woe is me. I sure hate being a productive member of society
>>338287013
>The paying customers get to play the game
Yeah, and it runs worse than without the DRM. How is that not punishment for the paying customer? Because the company wanted to "punish" people that clearly don't give a fuck in the first place, their games should run worse?
>>338287292
>they don't get to play
And how does this hurt them? They lose literally nothing.
I pirate a shit ton of games, and never ever buy them.
Almost the sole reason I built a PC
I also stop seeding the second my torrent is finished
>>338286739
OK. But that aside, in conclusion, DRM is irrelevant?
>>338286836
I have pirated over 1000 games, no idea how this is in any way punishing me especially since my country has legal piracy
Consider this, of all the sequels using Denuvo, not one of them has sold more than the previous games in it's series.
The most recent FIFA game sold about as much as FIFA always sells (actually it sold slightly less). MGSV sold less than MGS4. Just Cause 3 sold significantly less than Just Cause 2. Rise of the Tomb Raider sold less than Tomb Raider.
The list goes on and on and on.
>>338287013
>How is it bad for the people that are willing to pay for the game?
DOOM has been confirmed by hackers trying to crack it to have memory leaks thanks to Denuvo for starters.
Always online shit also comes to mind.
>>338287016
It shows the publishers who to give money to. Naughty Dog games sell a lot, the publishers sign them to exclusive deals and gives them money to make games. Sony Liverpool doesn't sell, they get shut down.
>>338286093
Dragon Age Inquisition - less than 3 millions - Denuvo
>>338286320
>MGSV selling that much in a year is a good sign
So what? Maybe a good sign, but still much less than GTAV or W3.
>GTAV and Witcher would've sold that much regardless due to its marketing
Like MGS5 was bad on merketing or had low fan base.
>And Tomb Raider and Far Cry would've sold little anyways
Still, numbers tell that games with Denuvo has less sales.
>>338286416
There was old v2 Denuvo which was partially hacked.
>>338287349
It runs the same.
>>338287368
Yeah, but they gain nothing.
>>338287420
>MGSV sold less than MGS4.
That's because MGS4 was the Bloodborne of its generation, the game that should have made it worth it to buy that $599 nogaems machine.
>>338287417
Well now you can't pirate with Denuvo, so you can't play those games. Also, your country should be nuked. Socialist countries are the scum of society
>>338287528
>Yeah, but they gain nothing.
Nothing of value was lost.
>>338287013
>How is it bad for the people that are willing to pay for the game?
Because of intrusive, sometimes faulty DRM and shit like persistent online. Having to log into three accounts with three different services just to play a game. Shit like that.
>>338287528
>It runs the same.
DOOM has memory leaks, GTAV with the crack runs better than original after the patch that removes the DRM.
Go be a shill somewhere else.
>>338287430
>this game I'm trying to tamper with isn't working like how it's supposed to
No shit. Don't tamper with it and it plays fine.
>>338287528
It doesn't, because you need extra shit running in the background.
Not to mention always online DRM that prevents you from playing the game entirely when their server shits itself. While the pirate with the cracked release can play as much he wants.
>>338286416
Multiple denuvo games got cracks, from memory its MGS5, Mad Max and Inquisition
>>338287605
Yes I can, I can still pirate THOUSANDS of games across my PC and jailbroken consoles
Also, how did you come to the conclusion that its a socialist country btw, or are you just that butthurt at me getting free games that your mind doesn't work logically anymore? Imho whatever shithole you're in should be nuked first
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1M5s0Pv38u4
>>338287528
So if there's no net change then how does that hurt them?
>it runs the same
Objectively wrong. See >>338287430
And this is only discussing from a theoretical standpoint. Most of the games that have Denuvo are generally pretty ass. MGSV is the only one that's actually arguably good and it's certainly not impossible to pirate.
>>338287605
Nuke USA because of share programm in Steam? In Russia there is guys who for about 4-5$ let you share game with Denuvo and play Sigleplayer offline in Steam.
>>338278931
as long as pubs keep using denuvo and the sample of denuvo games to the game population both continue to increase there will be a large enough sample to control for those variables and we can pretty much confirm whether or not denuvo works to increase sales
>>338281007
99% of "pc master race" are teenagers with zero income, yes, piracy is good
Pirating biggest benefit is marketing.
I suspect even if the publisher made more money without denuvo theres still that "I dont want people to enjoy my hard work without paying for it" and those people rather take the economical loss than see people enjoy their game for free.
>>338287442
Bruh, that's like saying hamburgers sell more than fugu because it comes with a free drink. No. Burgers sell more because there more popular. You can't compare the sales of a popular mainstream title against a niche title and say that it sold more because of anti-piracy measures. The popular title would've sold more regardless. And MGSV is still a super niche title in the real world.
>>338287528
>Yeah, but they gain nothing.
Actually, there is Walkthroughs on Youtube with or without comments from player.
>>338287948
99% of console warriors are angry underages
-t idort masterrace
The real problem is that games that used Denuvo are usually garbage, be it from technical standpoint or not.
>>338287678
>>338287701
>>338287714
Again, no shit it runs worse when you're purposefully tampering with the program. Just play it like how they tell you to play it without doing your own shit to it and you'll be fine.
>>338285924
The problem with comparing games like GTA5 is that gaming is also plagued by casuals/normie trash that only buy the most marketed game.
>>338288170
> Just play it like how they tell you to play it without doing your own shit to it and you'll be fine.
Yeah, just turn off all the DRM like they tell you to right?
jesus fucking christ are you retarded or something? Please show me the EA approved guide for turning off the DRM because Id actually really like that.
>>338287813
>thumbnail talking about LotF
LotF had almost no demand for a crack. See also Just Cause 3. Both of them sold absolutely like shit and were total failures. LotF as eventually cracked, if memory serves, but even still it has nobody playing it.
MGSV was cracked pretty much on release because people actually wanted to play it.
>>338288170
>GTAV runs worse with the DRM on a legit copy than it does on a pirated copy without the DRM
>this means that it's the owner's fault
Who's paying you?
>>338288170
How exactly is it tampering with the program when the Licensing Server shits itself and blocks you from playing?
How exactly is it tampering with the program if i want to play the game in 20 years, when the company and it's license servers have long went under?
Please, try harder, Rhajid.
>>338287758
Oh great, now here's a guy who's proud to be the scum of society. Thanks for holding humanity back, asshole.
>>338288406
frustrated people are less than human though, just so you know ;)
>>338288294
>>338288295
>>338288369
Exactly. I know how you PC shits are. First thing you do when you have a new program is try to crack it and remove/add/alter components of it. Quit trying to remove the drm and just play with a stable connection.
DELETE THIS
>>338287980
>Bruh, that's like saying hamburgers sell more than fugu because it comes with a free drink.
Not making sense. There is games with or without Denuvo. Lets compare W3 with DAI - same niche (fantasy RPG) DAI have two levels of protection (Keep and Denuvo). And look at sales.
>And MGSV is still a super niche title in the real world.
Then W3 too because slavic fantasy. But still, look at sales.
Or look at Dying Light - 5 million sales - no DRM! Compare with another FPS - Far Cry Primal. FCP had fanbase of Far Cry franchaise and marketing from Ubisoft on one side and Dying Light first in series and from unknown developer. And what in the end? DY wins!
>>338283676
true, but if its inconvenient for the consumer, the consumer will take their money someplace else, its a matter of if the DRM is intrusive and breaks the game or not, if it doesn't, and people don't notice it, like with steam, i don't notice jack, and i can play offline, then its fine, but denuvo has some weird rumors about causing hardware failures and damages, the incentive may be there, but the sales might not reflect their choice properly and they'll go back to consoles, PC has always been a wild card, make quality content or get stolen from is the mindset of all businesses that try to go into PC and not every company can produce quality content
>>338288406
Said the guy defending anti-consumer tactics.
>>338288406
>>338288573
>you will never be as assmad as a consolecuck
>>338288573
Do you even read the posts you imbecile?
>>338283725
Demo's also reduce sales apparently, so says some statistic that some dev pulled out to justify not creating demo's anymore
>>338288609
>Dying Light - 5 million sales
Fucking hell that's impressive, especially considering it took them fucking years to add an option to remove that camera shit w/e its called
>>338288669
You can pirate on consoles tho, as you should, jailbroken PS3 is TOP TIER, PS4 exclusivists will NEVER EVER EVER EVER have as much fun as a dude with a single jailbroken ps3, nevermind multiple consoles and a pc
>>338288573
non-sequitors aren't funny.
>>338288658
I'm sorry if I think a man should be able entitled to the sweat of his brow. I'm sorry for trying to uphold one of the tenets that this country was founded upon. I'm sorry if I believe every man deserves compensation for their work. But apparently you comboes think differently.
>>338288573
>Playing the way the publishers want you to play breaks the game
>"lol, just play the way they want you to, that'll fix it"
>>338282748
That's not a justification for piracy.
>>338288147
Well the point here maybe is about publishers desperately looking for scapegoats to pin lackluster sales on and choosing piracy as a scapegoat. Maybe it's about how publishers are fucking retards who spend more money on marketing and online reputation management and DRM software than the quality of the product they're releasing.
>>338288779
>make shit game
>people play demo
>realize its shit
>dont buy it
Well duh
>>338288913
>GUYS I JUST PLAYED BIOSHOCK LOOK HOW SMART I AM
>>338288779
yeah because the game itself is shit
>>338288913
You're the scum of society, no matter how you turn it.
>>338288926
Yes. It's all the assholes trying to force their pirated copy through on the first day that shits up the servers.
>>338289141
Pirates don't use the servers dumbass. That's the whole point. Are consolecucks actually this stupid?
>>338288913
I don't think this country was founded on video games
>>338289093
Says the man who wants to devolve back to the days when humans were pack animals and shared everything.
>>338289141
>>338289221
he trollin
>>338289221
No, but all their copies are trying to get through because the game still thinks it's real, then getting errors when it recognizes it's not. That's where the server errors occur. Because you pirate shitheads ruin it for everyone else.
>>338289141
thread is over, nobody is gonna top that
>>338289245
>take what you want because you can
>risk legal action and malware
Pretty sure piracy is anti-communist.
Pirates are the bravest of us all and set a shining example for all who love vidya. If only we could all be as glorious.
>>338281007
Believe it or not pirates do buy a lot of games, in some cases a lot more than people speak against it. What developers and publisher seen to forget that, the pirate would not had bought the game simply because it's importable and that excessive drm simply hurts the actual consumer and not the pirate. So instead of worrying so much about people who were probably not going to buy your game regardless, they should spend the time, effort and money into making the best possible product for those who are.
>>338289543
That's even worse
>devolve back to the era when humans were monkeys who fought over everything
>>338278592
If No one wants to pirate a shitty game why would someone buy it? Denuvo has been cracked and if the game is good it will be cracked.
>>338278592
shit games anyway
>>338289737
>being alpha is now devolving
Don't you have to be putting your wife's son through college for his Political Science degree?
>>338289623
I'm not going to spend all my time building a nice house just so hobos can come crash without paying rent
I have developed fool proof DRM.
Just don't release your game. 0 Pirates.
>>338289737
Pretty sure we fight over everything right now.
>>338281007
No, piracy is irrelevant to sales.
If your game is shit, or is a shit port, it's going to sell like shit.
I always wonder what kind of sad human spends all his day defending Denuvo. It must suck getting cucked by pirates this hard.
>>338289824
Implying that your weak numale arms could even lift a single brick.
>>338289824
The gubmint does it for your poor ass, so why not?
DRM and Piracy do little for sales either way.
If a pirate can't get it for free, they will simply ignore the game and not buy it.
If they can pirate a game, they will play it and still not buy it.
The vast majority of pirates are foreigners who can't get the game at all in their region or would have to pay an inordinate amount of money to get it legitimately.
>>338290061
The kind that gets paid $15 an hour to shitpost in favor of whatever company they've been hired to defend on relevant major websites.
>>338290291
>The kind that gets paid $15 an hour
Don't be retarded, astroturfers like this get paid by the post, and a post is worth less than 5 cents.
why the fuck would you pay somebody 15 bucks an hour to write blatantly wrong shit, when Rhajid will do it for 2 cents instead?
>>338282748
This. It's the only reason why I haven't bought Doom yet.
How can people support performance breaking DRM after the runaway success of cd projekt?
They are making millions through both their drm free games and their drm free store.
If piracy truly was the cancer that is killing gaming, you would expect companies that don't use drm to go under, IMMEDIATELY. Instead we see them thrive, why?
>>338288573
You are complete and fucking retard. I have played pirated Lords of the Fallen to check if it runs right before i would even drop the money on it. It had 50-60 fps on high on my machine. Then I bough it want what? Fucking 35-40 fps on high .
You are fucking retarded do you even know how denuvo drm work?
It have real time algorithms that run with the program to constantly change some shit so you can't reverse engineer it to assembler language
Idiots like you who never worked on programming and telling how they know all about it
eat shit
>>338290061
They probably think Denuvo helps games sell better.
So where can I apply to be a shill because literally all I do at work is browse /v/ anyway. I don't care if I only make five bucks an hour doing it it'll be like working two jobs at once.
>>338281007
It can be, some people pirate games to try them out and decide if they want to buy them and if they can't try them out they won't even bother giving it a second look.
>>338290061
4chan is a good place to spam shit, it's basically facebook these days.
denuva knows whats up.
No they are significantly lower
>>338278592
Average at best, lower in the worst case, like with Far Cry Primal, that sold less than a third of what Far Cry 4 did.
>>338287713
Are you retarded? Do you know how memory debugging works?
You don't need to actually change the files to see that there's memory leaks, that's how a developer knows if he needs to patch their shit, you dumb ape fucker.
>be CEO at multi billion dollar game publisher
>have meeting about piracy
>"...so based on our analysis, we've concluded that piracy increases sales by 3% on game titles."
>"Ok, so how can we stop piracy?"
>"sir...but that would reduce sales"
>twiddles handlebar mustache and grins evilly
>"I just want them to suffer. Don't you know I was appointed by Satan himself?"
>"Um...well there is this new anti tamper tech that's supposed to be impervious."
>"Excellent...will it stop piracy this time?"
>"Yes, it's effective for months. But it's expensive. It costs roughly half a million dollars per title to implement, and takes up developer time."
>"I don't care! I just like making people suffer! Profits are meaningless!"
This is what every pirate defender thinks happens at every Denuvo using cooperation.
>>338290698
>How can people support performance breaking DRM after the runaway success of cd projekt?
They're dumb as all fuck, as simple as that most likely.
>>338292025
He wouldn't have a moustache dumbass.
>>338292025
Well yeah, you yourself said so. The only point of DRM is to punish people.
Or have you forgotten that?
I won't buy games with Denuvo.
>>338292430
You need to be 18 to post here anon.
I won't buy something unless I can try it out first, so yes, for people like me piracy will boost sales.
I'm not sure who actually thinks intrusive DRMs hurt anyone besides the consumers who pay for the games but I would non stop shitpost for some of your shekels and I couldn't be any worse at it than the people you have doing it now because none of them have convinced me yet.
>>338294123
Like I said, you think that CEOs are evil, maniacal, handlebar mustached, people that don't care about profits. That's exactly what a child would think.
I was going to pirate D44M, but no crack so I bought it.
Only game I've bought all year, desu, except for ones I want to play multiplayer.
DRM is bullshit and only hurts consumer rights. Fuck the DRM Jew.
>inb4 pirate
>inb4 poorfag
Fuck off with your corporate cocksucking.
>>338292898
Then why are you here?
You shills sure like to flip flop, don't you. One hour ago DRM only eixsted to punish people. Suddenly that idea is preposterious.
Maybe if you little niggers wouldn't contradict each other, it wouldn't be so easy to call you out? Ever thought of that?
>>338294324
So, how do the lower sales fit into this? If they care about profits, why do they willingly lose sales?
>>338294324
Not him, but I think that they're largely incompetent and can't wrap their heads around the fact that people "stealing" from them doesn't actually cost them anything
But no, not evil
These are the same people that spend 70% of the development budget on advertising and can't afford a server that handles the launch rush, after all.
>>338292025
I think the argument is that if Denuvo does increase sales it should be showable by some metric. As is most major publishers appear to be acting on the assumption that it does but without some kind of proof it of course it comes off as anti consumer. If they do have data that proves this there isn't any real reason not to release it. The absence of such data inclines me to believe that they're doing this without any sort of solid evidence that DRMs increase sales other than "if someone can pirate a game they won't buy it" and without some kind of objective proof of that I can just as easily say "intrusive DRM policies make people less likely to buy games" and be equally right. Only difference is one of us has a say in the game's development process.
>>338294435
>>338294667
Because...hear this theory...
Game Publishers think that piracy REDUCES sales.
And you might be thinking "Why would a company, with massive amounts of resources, think something so stupid and untrue?"
Well little timmy, those companies actually have done research that show when a game is piratable, it loses sales.
"But...all these independent studies that show the opposite!"
Those studies are on other forms of media, and are flawed based on a number of reasons. Video game publishers have access to all their sales data. They also most likely have access to data which shows when cracks came out, how many people torrented it, and other shit that I'm not aware of.
So who do you think is more educated on the profitability of DRM: You with google and anecdotes, or a cooperation with vast resources and data? Unless you got a PHD in statistics (which are the type of people these companies would hire), your insight is pretty worthless.
>>338295143
Not either of those anons but can you show us said studies? If not can you show us a CEO or someone of similar authority referencing these studies when discussing DRMs to at least prove their existencce? I don't disagree that they have the capability to do these studies but I'm not convinced they've ever done one simply because I've never seen one.
>>338295143
>Those studies are on other forms of media, and are flawed based on a number of reasons
Where are those reasons? Only Video Game publishers have access to sale data, is that really what you're trying to say? How come Record Labels don't have sales data? How come Movie Publishers can't look up how many people torrented their shit? Did you think any of this through before typing it, little monkey?
>your insight is pretty worthless
ironic, are you one of these CEO or Statists? How is your insight more worth than ours, when you're just as outside of the game as us?
DRM is a control tool for the paying consumer. Nothing else.
>>338295654
No, because these studies would be internal and secretive. But you would be delusioned to think they don't make these studies.
Think about it. Denuvo costs a quarter to half a million dollars to implement per game, and takes up developer time (the most valuable asset). You think multiple, different companies would all take up Denuvo blindly?
>>338295925
>Where are those reasons?
It depends on the study. Many of them require people telling the truth, not a valid matric.
>Only Video Game publishers have access to sale data, is that really what you're trying to say? How come Record Labels don't have sales data? How come Movie Publishers can't look up how many people torrented their shit? Did you think any of this through before typing it, little monkey?
No, all those have access to media. I never once brought up movies or music. Unless you're arguing that piracy doesn't hurt those industries either. (kek)
>ironic, are you one of these CEO or Statists? How is your insight more worth than ours, when you're just as outside of the game as us?
Is anyone arguing that companies don't have statisticians or CEOs? No. But we're arguing whether or not piracy hurts or increases sales, and the fact that companies are spending millions to combat piracy, even after 30 years of piracy, shows that piracy hurts sales.
>DRM is a control tool for the paying consumer. Nothing else.
I guess that means you can pirate The Division and play on official servers right now? Oh wait...it appears that DRM is preventing you from doing that. Sounds like control for even non-paying customers.
>>338296368
Well, how about I buy the Division and try to play it offline? Oh wait, looks like the DRM is preventing me from doing that. Or how about I try playing Division 20 years from now when Ubisoft doesn't exist anymore?
>It depends on the study. Many of them require people telling the truth, not a valid matric.
I asked for the reasons, not for your excuses, boy. If you can't come up with any, just say so.
>No, all those have access to media. I never once brought up movies or music. Unless you're arguing that piracy doesn't hurt those industries either.
You claimed the studies are worthless because they are based on other forms of media and in the next sentence you mention that Vidya publishers have access to sales data.
So how come their studies can be easily dismissed as useless, but because it's an internal study it has to be the absolute truth? Because they have a PHD? Don't embarras yourself.
>Is anyone arguing that companies don't have statisticians or CEOs? No. But we're arguing whether or not piracy hurts or increases sales, and the fact that companies are spending millions to combat piracy, even after 30 years of piracy, shows that piracy hurts sales.
How about you answer my question, instead of trying to deflect? How is your insight more worth than ours? Given that you just pull shit out of ass unsourced.
If anything, it shows that combating piracy has been a huge waste of money. For all this "damage" piracy does, CEOs sure can throw money around at PHD holders, can't they?
Now keep on repeating you PHD Statistics meme all weekend if you want, but it will never convince a single person. For all I care they can spend $2 million per title for denuvo, the sales numbers just prove that it doesn't increase sales. Looks like those Staticians get paid too much, huh?
>>338295143
>video game publishers can tell how many people pirated a game
>you go on to say they can do this because "I don't know"
>>338297718
>look at sales numbers of denuvo they prove I'm right
Show me a incident where two identical games were released at the same time, one with Denuvo and one without.
Oh wait...those don't exist. So you have to extrapolate from other means.
>>338298091
>game DRM reduces sales
>I know this because I bought a game one time that I pirated
>>338296368
>You think multiple, different companies would all take up Denuvo blindly?
Most of the companies that use Denuvo have shown massive neglect towards their audience and the quality of their product.
So yes.
>>338286939
There was an open beta though anon. You could've watched gameplay vids of people in the open beta and it should've been evident how shitty the game would be
>>338298259
So a company would willingly release a lower quality, more generic product that generates more sales, but they would use DRM that harms sales? Sounds like double-think to me.
>>338298241
So you're saying the data that these Staticians would use doesn't exist, isn't useable or has to be "extrapolated" (i.e. made up)?
Great way to defeat your own argument, champ.
How much worth can a study be when they don't have control data? The only way their study could say that DRM improves sales is, like you said, by looking at two identical games being released with and without Denuvo. But given that such a case does not exist, their study becomes meaningless and biased.
>>338296368
If it fit with their preconceived notions of what is profitable than yes I think they would make a decision without a study. If everyone in the board room is convinced piracy is a detriment to sales and they are then presented with something that deters pirates conducting a study would seem illogical because it would go against the prevailing common idea. They may do a cost analysis of profits lost from piracy vs the cost of the DRM in question, but estimates of piracy are sketchy at best and without being able to see the analysis we can't be sure that they took into account people who pirate then go back and purchase or people who don't purchase due to DRMs. Very seldom do groups, be they government or corporate, look into something if it is agreed upon to be a good idea or "right". DDT would be one example I can think of off the top of my head that roughly fits with that. It killed bugs and had no apparent impact on human well being so it was used in abundance. If you can't even find record of a company official mentioning these studies let alone one of the studies I'm inclined to think they've forgone them based on "prevailing wisdom".
I see a bunch of retards in this thread making claims about sales numbers but nobody posting actual statistics.
Ya'll are a bunch of idiots.
>>338298683
>generates more sales
That's false though.
They throw out some shit, slap some DRM on it, and call it a day.
>CEOs aren't evil and stupid you guys
>the previous CEO of Square-Enix literally moved their HQ because a fortune teller on the street told him to do so
>>338299216
And do the profits grow because of more sales, or because of scumbag DLC and microtransactions? The sales numbers for games keep dropping year to year.
>>338278592
Too small of a sample size, there is not a single game with denuvo I want to play and I'm not even a pirate fag. Games sell poorly for too many factors. I don't believe Tomb Raider sells any more copies with out the DRM, it's just a shit game.
>>338298860
But thats literally the point of hte thread
Keep repeating the same up until people think its true
