What's the worst Ace Attorney game and why is it DD?
AJ
>>338221356
Because the series is so good that any next game produced is going to be inferior in quality compared to the last.
The overarching story of AJ and T&T is equally stupid in my opinion.
T&T was the worst game in my opinion, only the last case redeems it. sorta.
>>338221934
The only good case in T&T was Stolen Turnabout, the supernatural shit is the worst part of the series
>>338221934
Really? Because the last case I was internally screaming because it could have all been avoided had they just fucking told Phoenix and Maya about the attempted murder plot. It's fucking stupid.
>>338222075
Now that I think about it, you're completely right
The last case was disappointing as fucking hell and the second case legit surprised me.
T&T > PW1 > PW2 > DD > AJ
AJ is objectively the worst game. Phoenix is worst mentor, Trucy is worst assistant, Klavier is worst prosecutor, nearly all of the witnesses and defendants are awful, and the overarching plot and resolution are so unsatisfying that it's basically the Phantom Menace of the franchise.
>>338222207
T&T is fucking overrated. The last case is just as bad as the overarching plot of AJ.
>>338222342
DELETE THIS
>>338222075
If you don't like the "supernatural shit" then you probably shouldn't be playing this game series, bro.
>>338222207
Wesley Stickler, Guy Eldoon, and the soundtrack redeem the game for me.
>>338222207
No.
T&T>AA>JFA>AAI2>AJ>PLvsAA>DD>AAI
>>338222549
now this is a respectable list.
>>338221356
Apollo Justice simply because it wastes 7 years of Phoenix's life over some complete bullshit that will most likely not even be brought up in future games.
>>338221356
This thread came just in time, I finally got around to finishing the Phoenix Wright trilogy and will move on to AJ and DD next week.
Anyone else think the Spirit Channeling stuff is sort of, not taken advantage of as best it could be?
I mean, when it's used right (like in T&T's final case) it's cool, but then there's shit like Mia (in one of the Fey girls' bodies) never bothering to speak to Godot and explain stuff to him.
>>338222523
Soundtrack is fucking fantastic. I'll give you that.
Child of Magic > Turnabout Sisters
>>338222690
DD is the one responsible for that tho.
>>338222549
Wow I just realized I don´t remember anything about AAI anymore, maybe because there really isn´t anything that memorable in that game...
It actually is the worst game in the series.
>>338222454
The "supernatural" shit didn't interfere with any of the cases at hand until the end of T&T where it was crucial to the plot. It also interfered with 1-2 though not nearly as much.
>>338222690
>>338222829
Only thing they didn't bring back was the jurists system.
Phoenix not telling Apollo and Trucy about their relationship is entirely reasonable. Everything else was wrapped up.
>>338222781
So were we to assume Godot got executed in the end?
AA>T&T>AJ>AAI>DD>JFA>AAI2>PLvsAA
Maybe I would've enjoyed AAI2 more if I wasn't spoiled; it just dragged. Still love all the games, and their music. The music is in a decline with the new AAs, though. AAI2's soundtrack was the worst of the series. Decent, but not enough of it.
>>338221356
>Phoenix not telling Apollo and Trucy about their relationship is entirely reasonable.
How is it reasonable? I'm not saying it isn't, just curious.
>>338223631
Yeah. Most likely.
AJ is the worst imo. 4-3 is literally the worst case in the series, Klavier was a bad prosecutor, the whole game's plot was just weird, the last case was underwhelming. AAI is also a contender. The overarching plot was also kinda stupid, the villains were lame, the last case drags on for-fucking-ever.
>>338223631
Oh, he definitely did. Withholding important information from the court that could have led to a different outcome, murdering the victim, and trying to implicate Iris for said murder on the crime he was prosecuting definitely puts him in the same category of Von Karma.
Not to mention he was sick from the poisoning anyway. Even if he wasn't executed he definitely died in prison.
>>338223631
I don't think he did
Matt Engarde was much worse and he's just in prison
AJ should have explored the "Apollo had an evil mentor" idea more. Apollo could have been a defense side version of Edgeworth and really clashed with Phoenix up until Apollo finds out the full truth of what happened to Phoenix.
>>338223631
I dunno about executed. He did it to save someone else's life, which is most certainly a mitigating factor. Even with the absolutely insane cover-up, he probably got life in prison at most. They aren't gonna execute someone who committed murder to save someone else.
>>338223662
I prefered AAI2's soundtrack over AAI's. God, the investigation music from AAI was fucking grating.
JFA>T&T>AJ
It's been way too long since I played the first game, so I need to replay it and right now I'm playing DD and so far it better than AJ
Apollo Justice at least had god-tier trial music, hobo phoenix and grown Ema
>>338223662
>AAI2
>Worst
I was spoiled too, and I still think it's one of the best games in the series. I don't see how you can possibly dislike it.
>>338223964Cammy and Yeware some of the most memorable villains though.
>>338224292
Cammy was lame. Yew was okay.
>>338224271
To be fair it got stupidly convoluted at times.
Case 3 solution is fucking stupid as well.
>>338221356
It was too easy and too many cases were far too predictable. Second to last and most of the last case were pretty fucking great, aside from the hand holding and the whole "power of friendship" nonsense at the end.
>>338223169
They're also making a game based wholly around that supernatural shit.
Do the twists in the recent games come off as forced twist-for-the-sake-of-twist for you guys? It's probably because we're so long into the series now, butFulbright and Keyes' revealdidn't quite feel as impactful asManfred and Engarde's, even though they were generally handled in the same way.
>>338224415
Case 3 was great. You get to play as Gregory, and it had a pretty cool plot twist regarding the morality of the actions of both the murderer and the victim.
>>338224619
Fulbright's reveal was definitely impactful. The dude is with you the entire fucking game, and he seems like a good-hearted, lovable dunce.
>>338224271
I recognize how intricate and woven the cases were; the game just didn't jive with me like the others did. It felt like it went on too long. I do like these games because of their length, but I just wasn't captivated, even pushing the known spoiler to the side.
>>338224219
This is so great, though!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i7qxaCpfJa4
>>338221356
>AJ
>AAI1
>JFA
Not really.
>>338224620
I'm talking about the solution. The whole murder plot happened because people confused a corpse covered with a colorful cape with an ice sculpture.
It's legit more retarded than AA2-3 "The cape FLEW on top of the statue!" garbage.
>>338224181
I still feel like Kristoph should have gotten Phoenix convicted of the murder in the first case. Then you could have Kristoph being Apollo's mentor through the game until the final case where Phoenix comes back and helps Apollo defeat him. And you could even have Apollo grapple with convicting the man who mentored him. It would have been so much more satisfying.
>>338224773
It sounded fucking awful and having to listen to it like 90% of the game got tiring fast. Sorry.
>>338222207
Both T&T and JFA are only really great for their final trials, but JFA still wins by a grand margin because hostage scare, lawyer moral dilemma, and Edgeworth standing on the defense side is superior to supernatural shit just in general. I can't really think of anything exceedingly memorable about T&T except for Godot.
>>338224773
lm in the third case of AAI1 and man l hope the rumors of "AAI2 is 10x times better" are true because lm having a blast with the detective approach of this game.
PS: That flight attendant totally wanted the D
I wish I could forget and replay the others again. I just beat DD and it was pretty good but I can't remember enough about the other games to legitimately compare them to DD. I could play them again but since I still remember the big important events and reveals, it'll probably dampen the fun.
>>338224920
>and Edgeworth standing on the defense side
That's T&T, isn't it? When he fills in for Phoenix after the incident with the burning bridge
>>338224481
Don't forget being constantly bombarded with "THE DARK AGE OF THE LAW" every fucking 5 minutes
>>338224761
Would have had a better impact if they used Gumshoe instead
>>338225086
It's MUCH better.
>>338221356
AJ is the worst one.
There is no bad game, only bad cases.
>>338225086
Glad you're having fun with it; AAI is a bit of a black sheep.
Get the fuck out if you haven't been spoiled yet though
T&T>PW:AA>JFA>AJ>DD
The new game needs to be harder and less anime for it to be anywhere near the originals.
>>338225168
They obviously couldn't with Gumshoe because then they wouldn't ever be able to use the character again.
>>338223631
Most likely died due to his poor health.
>>338225307
>complains about anime
>T&T is his favorite
Oh the irony
>>338224920
Playing as Edgeworth facing off against Franziska in court, the twist where Maya is channeling Dahlia posing as Iris, Dahlia's epic breakdown, the moment where the ghost of Mia and Phoenix point at Godot, Cornered music FUCKING COMING BACK, and Godot's defeat literally had me shedding tears. Fucking beautiful ending to a game.
Any game with Franzy is top tier.
Ema a best
>>338225479
>the moment where the ghost of Mia and Phoenix point at Godot
You know I just don't understand why Mia didn't talk to Godot while in Pearl's body
AJ is worst than DD imo.
It's very hard to defend anything from AJ.
The best things i could do is say that it had a great first case, which DD also had, a great soundtrack and great intros for the cases.
Literally everything else falls short
>>338225565
2nd worse prosecutor.
Much better when she is relegated to just a helper
>>338225565
>tfw she will probably never be relevant again
>>338225327
The ghost of Gumshoe becomes your assistant for a game
Phoenix is the only one that can see him because of magatama bullshit
Any more objections?
>>338225651
Ema a boring.
Gumshoe>Badd>Fulbright>Ema.
>>338225565
I thought I would hate her, but her whipping the everloving shit out of Lotta in AAI2 made her jump in my list by a long margin. Fuck Lotta.
>>338225445
There's anime and then there's anime. Voiced anime cutscenes and a crazy highschool love traingle with someone disguising their gender is just waaaaayyyyy too much.
>>338225763
>Ema
>Boring
Bitch, Ema in AJ alone made me laugh way more than Gumshoe did in 5 fucking games.
>>338225135
I've replayed the first AA like three times since 2009. It's still such a good time.
>>338225792
I think i'm a battered wife because Lotta grew on me.
Her pupil is much better though.
>>338225763
>Ema a boring
What?
>>338225894
Both games had a third case that are the definition of ANIME. Both suffered shortcomings as well; T&T case was fucking horrible outside of its humour. How you can defend one but hate on another is beyond me.
>>338225653
Same reason she didn't tell Phoenix that her aunt was trying to kill her sister in 2-2. Mia's just a bitch.
>>338225898
>>338226004
I'll be honest with you.
I was throughly bored with Ema.
She, as an adult, did nothing for me.
As a kid she is just another Maya clone so she is harmless
>>338225723
Ghost DeTRICKtive
>>338222207
for me it's:
T&T > AAI2 > PW >>>> DD > JFA > AJ > AAI = PWvPL
anyone who says T&T is overrated is a contrarian
>it's a "guy who's an asshole to you turns out to be a pretty good guy at the end" trial
The best is the first
2 and 3 are okay but more weeb
>>338226292
What the fuck does that mean
For me:
JFA>PW>>>T&T>>>AJ>DD
>>338226114
How is she boring?
sure she acts like a complete bitch to you but her bitchiness and MUNCH MUNCH MUNCH made for golden moments during the investigation cases like in 4-4 where she pretends to be shocked at your deductions
She also calls out on Klavier's bullshit.
>>338226402
1 was more grounded and interesting in my opinion
2 and 3 go for more of the wacky anime aesthetic with more emphasis on the supernatural and just more weird cases
Lists are shit
Did anybody else feel that Blackquill was underwhelming as a prosecutor? He was just so forgettable
>>338226540
The comedy with the snackaroos completely missed me
But we can all agree that Ghost Trick is the best Ace Attorney game right?
Ace Attorney games are gay.
>>338226470
Every time I see JFA at the top of a list, I'm fascinated. Not being condescending as I liked the game, but was case 4 that much of a runaway success for you?
>>338226686
Blackquill was pretty great imo.
Him fucking off when Hughes confessed was one of the funniest bits of the series in my opinion
>>338226025
3-3 had humor to make up for its other shortcomings, and a good villain (although 5-3 had a good villain too). But the rest of T&T was good, wheras DD was just easy and disappointing.
>>338226686
I prefer him over Klavier
weeb prosecutor>german rockstar prosecutor
>>338226725
Yeah, Phoenix wright is a huge whore. He's probably full of AIDS by now.
>>338226686
I thought he was great, especially in 5-3
>>338226831
Klavier is the worst.
>>338226686
The other prosecutors are more memorable in virtue of their shittyness so I don't blame you.
>>338226786
I honestly can't remember his case, all i remember is his katana and that fucking bird
>>338226818
I don't know.
Both first cases were easy, the second case of T&T was all leading to the twist very much like DD's case 2, and both case 4 were leading up to the finale.
DD has a better murder plan (Jumping over a fucking pit to an emergency ladder) compared to T&T's less realistically pendulum and medium shenanigans, but has a least interesting villain compared to Godot.
Both games have their weak points and both games are utterly brilliant at other points, they just have different focuses. I don't think DD deserves all the shit it gets. Some, but not all of it.
And yes it was disappointingly easy but they're fixing it for AA6 thankfully.
>>338226831
I fucking hate Klavier. Never want him back on the prosecutor stand
>1-4
>1-5
>2-4
>3-2
>4-1
>5-3
>5-4
>5-5
These are the only cases worth playing, and 1-5 is the only one worth ever replaying. DD had the most cases that were at least acceptable, if your suspension of disbelief can hold on for Terran and The Phantom. The downside it had none of the charm of the GBA/DS entries, no doubt in due to the soulless nature of the 3D models and the generic orchestra remixes.
Ace Attorney 6 is going to be the worst entry in the series. Hopefully it kills it.
>Best ship reporting in
>>338226786
there's also the DLC where he reveals he was trying to save the Orca and looking for the killer as well, that bit was damn fantastic
>>338227371
Autism speaks.
>>338227509
You made this happen
>>338227562
B-But I don't make tier lists....
Why does it seem PLvsAA gets so little love?
>>338227630
Cause it's pretty shit
>>338227371
ok
>>338227562
MODS
>>338227276
I'm not saying DD is a bad game, I'm just saying its the worst in the series. Its still enjoyable despite holding your hand the whole way through the game.
>>338227630
As someone who only played the AA games the game is great up until the final case.
Then it takes the sharpest downhill i've ever seen a game take.
>>338227371
>3-2 only case worth playing from T&T
>no 2-2
>no 3-4
>crack ship picture
Gtfo of here with that shit
I get that the main theme of the AAI games is how to prosecute the corrupt within the law without being corrupt yourself.
But my god the "They're about to get away with it, if only we could do something" shit got really old fast.The AAI2 mastermind was a total shock though, 9/10 reveal.
>>338227630
>This got localized instead of DGS
Fuck you, Layton.
>>338227630
Gave us best prosecutor, then trashed him.
>>338227630
No idea.
It's pretty awesome.
>>338227630
because there weren't any real investigations and the trials were too convoluted so using hint coins was a necessity
>>338227769
It's hard to think things AJ does better than DD that is not music to be honest senpai.
I guess the intros for the cases because the anime parts were pretty shit
>>338227769
but how? and why? DD is not THAT bad, other games had worse quality.
>>338227789
>2-2
Fuck Maya. Fuck Kurain. Fuck Ace Attorney 6.
>T&T/3-4
>The answer to a question nobody cares about is in the past: the game
Shame Godot got put in such a shitty game.
>>338227874
Characters are mostly better, music and intro like you both said.
>>338227956
DD being so easy just automatically makes it last. It actively holds your hand and guides you through the game, there is not a single twist in the whole game. Not once do you ever need to think outside the box at all. If anyone told me they had to use a guide at any point in DD I would be shocked.
I just finished the second case of AJ. What do I have in store for the rest of the game since it's been alright so far?
Why the fuck is Blackquil such a goddamn weeb, usually when they localize these games they try to hide how japanese they are, but Blackquil even goes as far as using honorifics
>>338228165
>Shame Godot got put in such a shitty game
Godot was fucking shit
>>338228289
>Characters are mostly better
Eeeeeeeh.
I'd argue DD had the better Investigator & Prosecutor duo.
Blackquill is absolutely stronger than Klavier and i personally prefer Fulbright over Ema, though i realize some people like her
>>338228379
A serious contender for the worst case in the series
>>338228520
Fulbright was fucking greattoo bad he was dead the whole fucking time
>>338228414
Same reason why Barnham uses knight speak. They're autistic.
>>338224083
They figured Shelly is much worse than official execution. Phoenix is cold-blooded motherfucker.
AJ had the best soundtrack and waifus. Fuck you guys
>>338228520
Ema legitimately hated Klavier guts. There wasn't even a duo in there.
>>338228656
Barnham uses knight speak because he was brainwashed into thinking he was a knight.
>>338228687
>Best waifus
Fuck off, Iris is perfection
>>338227630
90% of retards here never played a Layton game before.
>>338228520
I meant side characters. I'd agree with Blackquill over Klavier and probably Fulbright over Ema.
>>338228780
He went to the knight ranks by himself and it's revealed in the special episodes that he actually loves role playing as a knight as much as Blackquill roleplays as a samurai.
>>338228379
>>338228605
To add to that.
I've never seen a murder mystery that insulted my intelligence so much as 4-3 did.
I know some people think 2-3 is worse, but 4-3 was for me undeniably the absolute worst.
>>338228762
What i mean by duo is strictly in the sense that the series generally portrayed the two occupations to be, mostly, on the same side.
Basically i just prefer Blackquill over Klavier and Fulbright over Ema
>>338228605
>Serious contender
I thought it was universally agreed that 4-3 is the worst case in the series. 2-3 was bad, but 4-3 takes the shit cake.
Pic and filename related.
>>338228942
I don't know man.
Gotta give credits where credits are due AJ had a great first case and there are some characters in 4-2(mostly Eldoon) which were alright.
But i really hated some of AJ's side characters.
I hate the defender in 4-2, i hated 90% of the characters in 4-3 (Valant is pretty okay), and fuck Spark Brushel.
Dual Destinies story is boring as fuck. Cases are all uninteresting, or have annoying characters like 5-2 and 5-3.
The villain is also the worst in the series.
The only redeemable part of DD was the DLC.
I even enjoyed AJ more.
>>338229430
>and fuck Spark Brushel.SWEATY ARMPITS
>>338227630
Because it's not an Ace Attorney game.
It's a Layton game, with special guest appearances by Nick and Maya.
>>338228165
>Fuck Maya. Fuck Kurain. Fuck Ace Attorney 6.
Maya is best girl. Fuck off with your shit taste.
>>338221356
Because that game had a worse director than trilogy/DGS and for some reason they're letting the fucker make AA6 and leaving Athena in
>>338229430
Like i don't even mind some of the considered worst characters in the series like Oldbag or Lotta.
But Wocky is fucking insufferable.
>>338229645
>worse director than Takumi
lol
He directed AAI2
>>338222108
Well, yeah. That's the point. He should have done that, but he didn't due to his own arrogance.
Godot wanted some level of revenge against Dahlia, and just spoiling her plan like that wouldn't have satisfied him. He took Maya's mother's life for that shit. Also, Godot still had a lot of contempt for Phoenix, but it mostly the first thing.
>>338227630
I don't like Layton, so I just couldn't do it
>>338229576
How about I take you out back and suck your above-average dick you humongous heterosexual intellectual?
>>338222207
I agree with you totally on Klavier, and a litlle on Phoenixbecause he acts totally different compared to every game before and since, but the rest is just you being butthurt.
DARK AGE OF THE LAW
>>338227371
>These are the only cases worth playing
Impossible, since I don't see 2-2 on that list.
>>338230179
Half of the defendents and witnesses are terrible.
>>338230993
Just like every other Ace Attorney.
>>338231120
Name a bad witness/defendant in AA that isn't oldbag
>>338231120
I'd argue that most of the defendants are pretty alright.
Wocky makes me physically furious
>>338231236
Anyone that works in a circus that isn't a clown.
>>338231362
That's not AA, that's JFA
Also, what's wrong with wheelchair acrobat?
>>338231236
That photographer bitch
>>338231236Butz
>>338231470
His motive was terrible, he only wanted to kill Regina only because she didn't feel bad about accidentally putting Bat in a coma, and he would have essentially repayed the man who showed him nothing but kindness by killing his daughter
>>338227630
The game was pretty fun. The twist/explanation at the end was pretty terrible though, even for a Layton game.
>>338227630
It was ok, Puzzles were way easier then curious village, and the music was GOD TIER, but the plot was meh. Its not even the fact that its a Layton plot, but how it was 70% Layton, 30% Ace Attorney.
>>338231236
Cody Hawkins
Sal Manella
>>338231615
>>338231615No one noticed the unusual passage of time after "Magic" was performed and they were put to sleep? Really? REALLY?
I'm still mad.
>>338231879
and the whole "falling asleep at the sound of banging silver" is really stupid and too fucking specific
>>338231879
>not once in the 10 years that Labrynthia has existed has the bell tower ever been struck by lightning
>not once in the 10 years that Labrynthia has existed has anyone bumped into the huge ass invisible bell tower in the middle of town square
>>338221356
I thought the writing and dialogue in DD was kind of shit. They couldn't nail Phoenix, Edgeworth, or Trucy to me so it felt like I was reading fanfiction.
Also the investigations, while easier this time around, somehow managed to be more boring then investigations in previous games.channeling is pretty straight forward. I don't get why its a deal breaker for some people.
T&T > AA > JFA = AJ >>>> DD
>>338231521
She wasn't that bad, she just had a lot of heart
>>338231592
Get the fuck out of here with your shit taste, Larry is perfect bro material
>>338231613
I gotta admit, i completely forgot why Acro was so mad so i went and read the case file
Now i remember why that case was so hated
>>338231741
>Cody
>Relevant enough to even matter
Anon, he was a fetch quest. He wasn't good or bad, he was just a fetch quest
>Sal
Accurate representation of the samurai industry
Anyone who claims DD is anywhere close to being the worst game clearly hasn't played AAI. It's a shame you have to get through it to play the best AA game.
>>338233272
Too bad AAI2 wasn't localized
>>338235462
The fan translation is good enough.
>>338223662
Why PLvsAA so low? I liked it.
>>338229815
And he directed AAI and DD which are pieces of garbage.
One-trick pony
>>338231236
Robin Newman
>>338236104
Because it could've been cool as fuck. I remember getting a 3DS in 2011 just for PLvsAA, which I saw the original announcement for in October 2010.
It was a premise squandered. Rife with asspulls and wasn't fantastical nor interesting enough. Maybe chalk it up to head canon bullshit or what I wanted it to be or it took too long to be localized, but I was disappointed. They could've also done some real fun stuff with other actual AA characters other than Phoenix and Maya.
>>338237354
The problem was that they revealed the game way too early. Just look at the original 2010 trailer and the original product. It's hardly the same.
There was also a lot of conflict from both teams and the game was in development hell for a while. Besides, the main story wasn't even written by Takumi. He was only in charge of the AA segments.
third one
I could barely force myself to finish it. the second case was the only good one
>>338222454
DD has no supernatural shit
that's why it's the best one
Can anyone explain the appeal of this series?
I just finished the first game and wow what a piece of shit. The idea and style are cool but the game has so many awful flaws.
The plots are horribly convoluted and full of plot holes, the justice system is retardedly hypocritical and biased against the defence, the "investigations" are just tedious goose chases going through slow menus to talk to everyone back and forth, the witnesses are all liers and assholes who get to repeatedly lie and change their testimonies over and over again, the court gameplay also sucks as its just matching the certain evidence to certain statements but better not get ahead of yourself because evidence doesn't count until they specifically ask for it, the arguments are pants on ahead stupid as you have to prove 200% the real guy did it or the defendant who has incredibly shakey evidence goes to jail instantly, and the mysteries aren't even good as you figure everything out at least half way in and then have to slowly trudge along waiting for all the stupid characters to figure it out.
I mean the music was really good but that's about it. And apparently first game is the pinnacle of the series? I don't even want to imagine how bad the other games half to be then.
How does this series have so many fans and keep getting loads of sequels wasting Capcoms development time?
>>338238017
>wow why isn't this videogame realistic? fuck you!
So is the only argument why Apollo Justice is bad that "Nyugh, I don't like change, go back to Phoenix!"?
Because that's pretty much the only bad thing about the game. The last case was a bit anticlimatic, but it was still good. Doesn't make the whole game worse than something like JFA
>>338238213
>So is the only argument why Apollo Justice is bad that "Nyugh, I don't like change, go back to Phoenix!"?
It's like you've never read any thread that has ever talked about AJ and only made assumptions based on stuff like MGS2, there are numerous reasons as to why people dislike AJ, but that isn't one of them
>>338238402
Well aside from stuff that also applies to the other games, I haven't seen much at all. A lot of people bitching about Ema. IMO she's better since she's not the same person she was almost a decade ago.
>>338238402
Not him, but I feel that's kind of what it amounts to. Most criticisms towards AJ could easily apply to the other games as well.
>>338238213
what you're basically saying is "these opinions are wrong, they must think it's bad because of why I think it's bad"
>>338226686
At least he religiously argues with you.
That's what I want in a prosecutor. A hard fought battle proving every possible inane theory through extensive bullshiting, and unorthodox thinking against in all but complete control of the court room. Blackquill definitely captures the spirit of that.
>>338221356
T&T>AJ>PW>DD>JFA>AA1
In all honest JFA was alright though I hated alot of the music and Turnabout Big Top was incredible shit and the only real reason why its lower than DD imo. AJ was pretty based in all honesty though the last case sucked.
>>338239238
>these opinions are wrong, they must think it's bad because of why I think it's bad
No, I'm just saying that if they think Apollo Justice is bad for X, Y and Z, that they should take a look at their superiority complex and realize that most of the criticism applies to the rest of the series.
I cannot fathom how you can hate Apollo Justice when you went through JFA. Haven't played Dual Destinies, but I hear from everyone how "amazing" it is.
>>338238132
If by realistic you mean logically consistent and rational then yeah this game completely fails at both those things.
>>338239504
>Haven't played Dual Destinies, but I hear from everyone how "amazing" it is.
It's not. Don't make the same mistake I did, I listened to people here praising it and got overhyped for it. I think I would've enjoyed it a lot more if I didn't, so keep your expectations in check.
Who is the most underrated character in the series and why is it Guy Eldoon?
>>338239504
>thinking a game is bad gives your a superioty complex
You are the dumbest motherfucker on earth.
DD felt way to cheesy for me and it constantly used that cliched ass screaming in the courtroom when something "bad" happened, which really annoyed me desu.
>>338240164
Pure cringe with that anime scene in 5-3 with Hugh screaming in the witness stand
>>338240152
Thinking the original 3 are better than anything else is. ESPECIALLY people who like Rise from the Ashes. It's so bad. For me it's nearing 2-3 levels of bad.
And even T&T isn't without its flaws. 3-3 is kinda bad. All the mirror stuff and Fugio and what's her face have no character development pretty much. He's a dick to the end and so is she.
>>338239504
JFA? You mean the game that only has one bad case, while also having the best case in the entire series? Compared to AJ, that has 4 complete shit cases?
Seriously, you're in every AA thread, and you never seize to amaze me with your rampant homosexual lust for klavier.
You spout bullshit like "I never heard arguments against AJ", while your only argument to defend it is "I didn't like JFA". You're an imbecile.
>actually implying that 2-1 is better than any case in AJ
Your reply
>>338238213
>Zak in his entirety, and honestly Galvin is pretty wholesale terrible as well
>Phoenix being gutted and retool into an entirely different character because an idiotic nonsensical reason that felt like little more than an excuse
>Plot being really inane even for PW, and the end setting a dramatic change in the courts plus a bunch of unexplained or unresolved plot threads like black psylocks and apollo trucy siblings thread making a sequel game extremely difficult to follow up mechanically and storywise (see part of why DD has stupid shit in it)
>Trucy does nothing (apparently this is what she does actually going by DD so maybe the problem is just Trucy)
>Kalvier being the worst prosecutor
>Returning characters being largely literal whos
>Apollo being phoenix lite (this isn't bad in it's on setting persay but since Phoenix changed so heavily, and abruptly his traits can come off negative or annoying)
>the game mechanics were rather ambitious in concept but the court events and moving past checkpoints could be annoying due to repetition looking for tells with apollo or pointing out evidence in a video. Like that one bit in 1's DS case where you had to watch the badger video and point out mistakes)
>new characters were just kinda lacking in charm, and the more appealing ones tend to get sidelined for others like Wocky eating up a lot of time in his case
I genuinely wish AJ was never tied to PW and it was in it's own setting, and just happens to co-exist with wright's story
>>338241229
Go masturbate to Klavier, you hambeast.
>>338221356
But Apollo Justice is objectively the worst. Worst protagonist, worst prosecutor, worst final villain, worst side characters.
>>338241343
>Worst protagonist
AAI1 Edgeworth
>worst prosecutor
Franziska
>worst final villain
The Phantom
>worst side characters.
Dual Destinies
Try again.
>>338221356
don't you guys ever get tired of having this circlejerk in almost every AA thread
>>338241485
AAI1 Edgeworth was fine. It was how Gumshoe was in that game that was the problem.
>>338241316
>>Trucy does nothing
ok
>>338241485
>AAI1 Edgeworth
Has a distinct personality and motivations, is not simply "loud Phoenix."
>Franziska
Actively challenges the player, and while she uses a gimmick it's played for humor rather than cringeworthy "cool dude" points like Klavier.
>The Phantom
Subtly and cleverly built up throughout the game through the use of Athena's emotion reader. Has a coherent motive. Has impressive feats. Has a spectacular breakdown.
Meanwhile Klavier murdered a man over a game of cards and failed to cover it up, but it's soooo cool because recolored psyche locks!
>Dual Destinies
Brushel alone is shittier than anything in Destinies, and that's without even touching Wocky.
Sorry, kiddo.
>>338241485
I'll take the somewhat autistic lawyer-playing-detective who makes every chick he meets wet over the generic teenage protagonist version of Phoenix, thanks.
>>338241821
>Meanwhile Klavier murdered a man over a game of cards
Epic
I bet you also think Apollo's bracelet is "LOL YOU TWITCH YOU'RE THE KILLER" and that's it
>>338241916
>waah, you're stupid :(
brilliant counter argument you got there, hambeast.
>>338241821
>Subtly and cleverly built up throughout the
game
It was a fucking asspull
>through the use of Athena's emotion reader.
A magical bullshit gimmick
>Has a coherent motive
MUH IDENTITY I MUST KILLLLL
>Has impressive feats
Lol I wear 50 scooby doo masks
>Has a spectacular breakdown.
LOL THE MAGIC OF FRIENDSHIP
>>338241916
why do AJ fags always default back to this, even when no one is talking about Percieve
people dislike Percieve because it's only in the trial segments (which don't even need a gameplay gimmick) and not in investigation segments (which are in greater need of it) in AJ and feels like a step backwards from what the games were like before+ it slows sections to a crawl when used due to how fucking slow it is
>>338242073
>It was a fucking asspull
remind of black psyche locks and klavier.
>>338242130
>and not in investigation segments
What's the fucking fun in that?
>oh no, he's lying
So what? It's much more interesting when the lie is in the witness stand and not in a random place when you can speak to your leisure.
>>338242073
>It was a fucking asspull
Explain how.
>A magical bullshit gimmick
Explain why the bracelet isn't a magical bullshit gimmick.
>MUH IDENTITY I MUST KILLLLL
He's an assassin, yes. Please explain why you feel Gavin's motive is superior.
>Lol I wear 50 scooby doo masks
He's a spy, yes. Please explain why you think hitting someone with a bottle is superior.
>LOL THE MAGIC OF FRIENDSHIP
Explain how LOL THE DEMON HAND is superior.
>>338242241
Why bother, you're a clinical retard who clearly mashed A during 4-4 without reading or either too imbecile to understand Kristoph's motives and what he did.
But please explain what a WONDERFUL villain the phantom is
>>338241647
Getting kidnapped isn't doing something. It's someone else doing something and her doing nothing to stop it. Which is her specialty. Doing nothing.
That's not to say she doesn't have charm or isn't adorable but she's kind of irrelevant and it's personally grating as fuck that the most memorable thing about her I can remember is Mr. Hat, which apparently she doesn't do that anymore either.
Also you asked for arguments why AJ gets shittalked so much and there's a laundry list.
>>338242240
>What's the fucking fun in that?
for the reason I just said
> It's much more interesting when the lie is in the witness stand and not in a random place when you can speak to your leisure.
Witnesses lying in court isn't something AJ invented, and the series managed just fine without a completely unfun gameplay gimmick shoehorned into it before
>>338222781
Who's that behind Mia?
>>338242421
>can't explain any of his reasoning
>"n-no YOU explain"
Well, that settles that. Thanks for playing.
>>338242498
And witnesses lying during investigations isn't something new. The fucking magatama serves the exact same purpose. There's no point to use the bracelet during investigations when the magatama is much better and fit for it.
>>338242421
>Why bother
Wow. So why did you even start this conversation if you're just gonna chimp out like a kid now?
Seriously, you're making AJ fags look even more retarded than usual. Your post is one of the most embarrasing thing I've read on this site.
>>338242568
>kristoph is shit cuz i say so! i winnn :DD
wow you really showed me I guess
>>338242584
So you agree with me then? We are talking about AJ, remember?
>>338242241
>>338242421
Ladies, ladies. You're both terrible. Gavin and The Phantom were both shit tier.
>>338221356
So the dataminers confirmed that Phoenix will be prosecuting the final case in AA6, with Apollo as the lawyer. Any ideas on the defendant and the victim? Since Phoenix is prosecuting, I think Nayuta is one of the two.
>>338242647
>phantom is shit cuz i say so! i winnn :DD
wow you really showed me I guess
>>338229430
4-2 had some nice side characters in it, Eldoon and Kitaki's parents were fine
A lot of AJ's side characters in general are alright, Apollo and Klavier being lame is what weighs it all down since the defence attorney and prosecutor duo are sort of important to get right in these games
>>338242718
Perhaps, but that's not being debated. What's been clearly established is that Gavin is more terrible than the Phantom.
>>338242647
>kristoph is great cuz i say so! im totally not a disgusting fuyoshit :D
Replaying the series again, half-way through Turnabout Samurai.
This case is a lot better than I remember, Oldbag isn't as annoying on the second go and it feels good seeing her run Edgeworth around after the trouble he gave me on 1-2. Penny's cute. Will is even cuter.
Let's see. A man who wanted fame and recognition more than anything else. Defending the famous Zak would be the perfect opportunity. Then what happens? He gets fired over a game of poker, in which Zak was looking at the man behind the cards.
But that's not the end of it. Kristoph had already paid mad dosh to forge fake evidence to win Zak's trial, setting up time bombs to get rid of the forgers at any time if his stunt was discovered. And if it wasn't bad enough, Zak hired Phoenix, a lawyer whom Kristoph despised, to represent him.
Seizing the opportunity, he took the chance to frame Phoenix by using the fake evidence he was going to use to incriminate him. However, Zak escaped, and Kristoph went into paranoia for 7 years. Paranoia that Zak might come back and spill the beans about the fake forged evidence, or the Mishams spilling the beans about the forged evidence. If he wasn't fucked enough, Drew didn't kill himself as Kristoph had planned to with the poisoned stamp, so he was getting into despair.
Fucked in the head after many years of paranoia, he finally saw his chance to silence Zak forever. However, he was eventually caught by Phoenix, who had to use forged evidence to convict him because his murder was so perfect and he left no clues behind. He finally snapped and went to prison, however, his forged evidence stunt was still undiscovered. It wasn't until later when everything came to light. His crime of murdering Drew Misham with the stamp, almost killing Vera, and him being the one responsible for the fake evidence years ago. Everything would have been dismissed as conjecture if it hadn't been for the jurist system that found Vera innocent, and Kristoph's whole shit was finally exposed to the light, pointing him as fraudulent lawyer and murderer.
Meanwhile, the phantom murdered people because they were going to find out his identity because he's a super evil bad person. What a wonderful, deep-thought character. Worthy of being called a better villain!
>>338221356
>tfw even if you have a least favorite game, they're all still good games
Its great when a series is just overall good
>>338243243
The term "game" is being thrown around a lot these days, huh.
>>338241916
Percieve is a little bullshit though, just not for that reason
Outside a small handful of exceptions (usually when the court process has gone to complete shit with the witness/mastermind on the stand having taken control of things), the series establishes that Defense Attorneys get short shrift compared to Prosecutors, the latter of which being able to "amend the court record" at will and can decide whether or not to bother verifying evidence in court or not. Phoenix is the king of bullshitting and all but he's usually pretty quick to provide evidence for whatever he says
So then comes along Apollo's first use of it against the Russian bartender chick. Understandably he wasn't too sure what the fuck just happened when he did it. He says as much even, that he has no idea what the hell he's ding here but he wants to keep pushing it. He does eventually provide evidence, not immediately though. Why did everyone else in the court room even humor that, when traditionally the court shoots down ltheories that aren't as out-there as e person getting nervous in court (which always means that they're lying now as of AJ, even though half the cast in these games often act melodramatic and wig out merely over the player character talking to them in general)
>>338243159
>an assassin assassinating people is improbable and stupid
>a lawyer orchestrating a ridiculously complex series of murders to win a single case, and whose motives are so nonexistant that the game literally introduces a new mechanic to prevent you from "discovering" them, however, is perfectly reasonable and the mark of a deep and complex character
Yup, it checks out. Glad you solved that for us.
>>338242924
I hate Gavin because the entire game felt like it was leading up to some huge conspiracy with him at the center with his motives being some deeply evil shit, as evidenced by the black locks. But then it turns out that he's just mad over a poker game and was jealous of Phoenix. Fucking lame.
The Phantom was a bit more coherent, but didn't even feel like an appropriate final boss. There's generally some greater implications with the suspect in every final case, but The Phantom feels like an incredibly half-assed attempt at creating another 2-4. Plus, the triple point "Power of Friendship" thing was just too much. 5-DLC would have been a much better final case. The entire game keeps screaming about "THE DARK AGE OF THE LAW" but The Phantom didn't have much to do with that considering he was on his own side. He wasn't in anyone's pocket. He wasn't controlling the prosecution or the judge. He was just lying to people.
>>338243464
>get utterly destroyed
>L-lol w-well a bland plain character is sooo much better anyway!
You tried.
>>338243351
>>338243479
>it turns out that he's just mad over a poker game and was jealous of Phoenix
read >>338243159
>>338226686
Blackquill is the second best prosecutor after Edgeworth, and that with Edgeworth having an entire spinoff series to develop his character
>gets the judge to side with him without resorting to shitty physical slapstick like Franziska
>actually competent unlike Godot
>seeks the truth without being a non-threatening pushover like Klavier
>>338243479
and Von Karma was literally >muh penalty yet apparently he's a good villain?
>>338243638
Yeah, that's pretty much what it says. I'm going more off of Gavin's own dialog than some anon's assessment.
>>338243159
The Phantom doesn't want people to see his face or to find out who he is because he's terrified of what might happen, he states several times that if someone were to find out his identity, he would be in danger, which turns out to be true, since he immediately gets shot at by a sniper once he's found out, so he doesn't kill people because he's a "super evil bad person" he kills them because they might have seen is face, and that' the worse thing that could possibly happen to him
worst one is 3
i liked dd, fuck you
also 6 is coming out in 2 weeks, JYEAH
>>338243797
>than some anon's assessment.
That is literally what happened, the whole fucking shit.
He didn't do shit because of a poker game.
He did it all because he was fired and prohibited from defending Zak, AND replaced by Phoenix. That's his motive in a nutshell
>>338243587
>get utterly destroyed
You certainly did. The flowery textwall attempting to make Gavin's actions seem deep and tormented was a nice display of effort, certainly, but you can only dress up "he kills people for no reason" so much. Ultimately, every aspect of Gavin's character is weaker and less plausible than the Phantom's, less effectively woven through the story and provides a less satisfying resolution. You've failed to provide a convincing motive, though you can hardly be blamed for that when the game doesn't either. Ultimately you've always fallen back on "but the Phantom is terrible," which is wholly irrelevant, because Gavin has been thoroughly demonstrated to be inferior to the Phantom. If the Phantom is garbage, then Gavin is even worse. Simple enough for even an AJ fan to understand.
But then you already admitted defeat several posts back so this summary is largely token.
>>338243913
Because of that poker game.
>>338243913
But why does he hate Phoenix?
>>338244014
Because he's better at poker than him.
>>338243913
So explain why killing someone over being fired makes more sense than killing someone because you're a contract killer.
>>338244014
because he is the villain, he hates phoenix by default.
>>338242421
He loses a game of poker, gets upset he isn't picked so he can make lots of money enough to commit several extremely severe crimes, that could potential ruin his brother and his own future career forever. Somehow this does not completely blow up in his face, and things go his way. Except Zak runs away so now he has to religiously stalk everyone involved to prevent Zak from telling people how retard Kristoph is. Which is saying a lot because Zak is fucking retarded. Seven years doing this stalking to finally find and kill Zak. So what does he do afterward? He tells hobo phoenix he murdered Zak then offers to defend him going full circle and being rejected again so hobo phoenix can turn to not phoenix to defend him. Who manages to prove it was actually Gavin and Gavin's career is ruined and his life is over and the only sliver lining he has is that he wasn't exposed for forgery. Then the finale is about proving he actually did that and a bunch of other horrible shit effectively making the Galvin fucking worthless. All because he lost a high profile case to a game of cards with a retarded man.
Sounds like retarded character to me. His driving motivation is fame and self-preservation turned to "how do I save as much face as possible"; which is almost exactly what motivates the Phantom. The phantom is absolutely lackluster of a final villain but to actively pine for Gavin's character is fucking idiotic. His motive is fucking stupid.
>AJfag getting BTFO this hard
I love you /v/
>>338243791
Von Karma was the big bad behind a great case. The cases involved were the center pieces, not the actual killer and their motives. 1-4 is more of trying to figure out "what really happened" while 4-4 and 5-4 feel more like "who is the killer and why?" They focus too much on the back story and motivations of these awful characters. In the original finale, the why comes later. In the newer games, the why is the entire focal point. Which is why Gavin is a particular letdown, because they build that shit up the entire game.
