We'll go when the bird flies. Can you remember that?
>ps2
>>338146851
>gamecube
You really are a villain, aren't you?
Oh fuck, another Killer7 thread?
Posting best song.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kNIlClYUp5M
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wGbFKNSZAiM
>>338144759
That gun holds 7 bullets. I'm a professional. You can't fool me, old man.
>Garican was voiced by the Grim Reaper
It all makes sense now.
I feel obliged to share this. All written by another anon on /v/, some pretty good stuff.
http://pastebin.com/kDeNi0md
It's funny I rewatched the Mahjong scene at the end of Sunset after learning to play the game, and the whole reason everyone kills each other is because the one guy made a minor slip on a frustrating and easily-forgotten rule.
>>338147714
That's a pretty awesome poster. Was that actual promo material for the game or a fanwork?
>>338149149
No idea. Took it from another thread.
All I know is that my favourite (and only) gaming shirt seems to share some similarities, so maybe official art?
PINK ASS PUNK
IMMA CLEANER
>>338149572
YOU'RE FUCKED
>>338149637
THIS IS TOO EASY
my friend was the biggest fag hipster who liked mst3k, ultraman, killer 7 and beavis and butthead
then i remember that like 40% of /v/ is like that
>>338144759
I'm so glad last nights thread went got 100 more posts after I went to bed. I thought everyone had forgotten.Ehaha
Who has the best reload animation and why is it Coyote's
reminder that kev was a gay faggot
>>338149149
Here's a higher res version I found by reverse searching the image.
When will Suda make good games again
>>338150379
Does the first English release of Silver Case count?
Could there ever possibly be a better cutscene than this?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2OQsMZa9wpo
>>338147096
>playing any console shooter on anything other than xbox
>tfw Suda51 will never made a game as good as Killer7 again
>>338147096
You are joking, right? ps2 version of this game is terrible
>>338147251
>not Blackburn's theme
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PXJ4-ZJZHKQ
I forgot how godlike the OST of this game is.
>analog aiming
Only flaw. Wish It got a rerelease on Wii, would be much better with pointer controls.
>>338150719
I posted that because it was the first thing I found on Google that was appropriate. The PS2 version isn't bad (I've completed it and am now playing through the Gamecube version) the slowdown is pretty bad, but it's not game breaking.
>>338150925
Don´t worry anon, I'm sure they will do an HD remaster for PC some day
R-right guys?
>>338150719
>implying No More Heroes is bad
>implying Killer is Dead is bad
>implying Lollipop Chainsaw is bad
>>338151003
Whatever keeps you going anon.With the release of Silver Case, I'm probably getting too excited about the implications of Grasshopper returning to their back catalogue myself
>>338150497
Actually yes, but it's been too long
>>338150939
The cutscenes are also pre-rendered, they look pretty bad.
Also in PS2 they put a loading screen in the fucking middle of shooting Kun Lan's hand, totally breaks the inmersion
>>338149958
Could you post a link to last night thread? I wanna read it
A nice touch that I always loved is that each of the Smith's powers are reflections of the way that they died at the Union Hotel.
>Kevin
Kevin disguise as a bellhop was exposed and he died for it. In the game, Kevin can turn invisible and elude all detection.
>Con
Con didn't hear Emir coming and was shot in the back without reacting. In the game, Con's acute hearing helps you find your way through several puzzles, and he's the fastest Smith.
>MASK
Mask dies unheroically, unmasked in the shower. Naturally in the game he's the most heroic and impossibly powerful member of the Smiths, and he never removes his mask.
>Coyote
Coyote tried to ambush Emir, but didn't look out for his surroundings. Emir got the drop on him by leaving the building and shooting him through the bedroom window, which is basically exactly how Coyote operates in the game.
>Kaede
Kaede was a coward. She had the opportunity to warn Dan but instead she hid to protect herself. That's why her dress is bloodied (bloodied clothes represent traitors) and why she cuts her wrists to solve puzzles, as a way of atonement.
>Dan
Dan talked instead of shot, and hesitated to fire even though he had already drawn his gun. As the Hellion he's pretty much the most violent of all the Personas.
>>338150893
>>>not the game version
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=05oc2udeGpA
>>338150893
Shadows of the Damned is easily his best work, though.
>>338151093
No More Heroes is great, the other two are ok, but don't have any charm compared with Killer7 or No More Heroes.
>>338150521
Buying this now
>>338151093
Killer is Dead is "epic lel so random", just as Lollipop Chainsaw
NMH is the last good game
Shadows of the Damned could be something good, but because of the EA it went to shit
>>338151272
It's not, it's too simplified and repetitive
>>338151257
They both sound in the game. Fuck, Encounter is not my favorite chapter, but Curtis's house has the perfect atmosphere for this game's tone.
>>338151456
>Shadows of the Damned could be good
>Killer is Dead and Lollipop chainsaw are "epic lel so randumb"
>>338150521
andrei ulmeyda was the best
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uQ1QT2d8x_E
>>338151592
You haven't played F.S.R., K7 and don't know shit about Suda 51 previous games, did you?
>>338151592
Killer is Dead is all style, no substance. It's a cool style, but substance-wise it doesn't come close to what Killer7 has to offer
>character select quotes change every chapter
>they're usually like 1-2 words, maybe a sentence
>one chapter Dan's quote randomly changes to a minute long ramble
It's the little details in the game that I seem to remember the best
>normally not afraid of any kind of game
>killer7 spooked the fuck out of me for some reason
>could only play as Kevin because it let me be an invisible piece of shit
So what choice do you make at the end /v/?
Do you allow Japan to get nuked into oblivion, or do you leave it in the hands of someone driven to turn into the dominating global power using a magical policy document?
I played through the entire game using Dan as much as possible
>>338147386
>You will never learn how to get women by playing Russian roulette
>>338152002
Nuked the shit out of it the first time I played but I was so confused as to what the fuck was going on at that point in the plot so I wouldn't say it was something I spent a lot of time thinking about.
>>338147808
Furiten is pretty imprint important.
>>338149718
I like 1 of those.
Killer 7.
So is this game in the same universe as No More Heroes and Flower, Sun, and Rain?
>>338152150
Yeah but it's easy to forget so I can totally see why Steve Blum there missed it. It's just funny to me that everyone dies basically on a technicality.
>>338152397
The 'Kill the Past' series right now consists of Killer7, FSR and Silver Case.
No More Heroes might have some slight connections, but I don't think it's commonly considered to be in the same series.
Awww yiss, motherfucking Killer7 thread
>>338147251
I got a complete stranger dancing to that on the train on time. Masafumi Takada is a beast.
>>338152473
But it is not some stupid technicality. It is vital to gameplay since you need it to not deal in. You can catch it because you thought you discarded safely and it doesn't make sense
>>338147714
I think I remember this being in a GameFAQs document from the mid-00's. One of the best things on that site really.
>>338151951hehehe
I know that Killer7 threads tend to be a circlejerk because it's a cult game, but I genuinely think that nothing else even comes close.
The story, the gameplay, the style, the fucking music, everything was off the wall then and continues to be so today.
>>338152929
I agree man, I bought it around these days last year and It's already one of my favorite videogames, just beat it a third time recently.
Fuck, I want an HD release.
>>338152929
Yeah I'm sure that K7 is one of the first games where I can honestly say I played it for the story above anything else. NMH was similar, but K7 even more. Partly because the gameplay isn't super compelling (though it is fun), but mostly because the narrative is so crazy and unpredictable that I needed to know what would happen next.
>>338151272
Disagreeing now
Shadows of the Damned had pretty cool music and some good stylistic choices
But the game itself was mediocre and the constant dick/sex jokes were not funny
Don't get me wrong, some are fine but the game also lacks NG+
>>338152723
Fair enough. Blum's reaction sells it though; he was more focused on the trash talking going around the table and acting smug while pursuing his own sneaky strategy (his hand is mostly steals) that he didn't really pay attention to what he was doing.
Is there a reason that the writers of the game haven't explained everything about that game to this day and age? I recall there being some plot notes released after the game but I also remember it didn't explain everything.
Is there anywhere I can get a clear description of the plot? I think after all these years it shold just finally be revealed instead of fans making up their own shit.
>>338153632
The only official document related to the plot is Hand in Killer7, which honestly makes the story more confusing, not less, because it clearly incorporates cut content from the story.
And anyway, the main storybeats are fairly clear cut. The game is a story about one man uncovering the truth about his identity set against the backdrop of Japanese-American geopolitics. The hard part is figuring out how all the little details hang on that framework.
>>338153632
Hand in Killer7 kind of explains it
Also, only Suda wrote the whole plot, no one else. It's mentioned in The Art of Grasshopper Manufacture
>>338153632
There is a struggle between East and West and it is eternal.
>>338153632
It's obvious if you watch some trailers that not only the game went through a few iterations, but a lot of locations were left out. I wouldn't be surprised if the original plan was for there to be more opportunities to flesh out some of the personalities like Dan's was.
'Hand in Killer7' was an accessory book-art-thing that kind of explained some things, while at the same time talking about elements and characters completely absent from the game.
This is all not even including the Killer7 stories written by Suda that were recently published by Famitsu. I still don't think those have been translated.
>>338153897
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZjYxTjpCwzw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z_TaXGODDNE
Sundance Shot in the game would be fucking nice...
>>338153829
>>338153897
Then why wont suda just fucking sit people through the games little details? it's infuriating that to this day I still don't understand everything about the games plot and the fucking guy has moved on to other games meaning he's probably forgotten details about killer 7's plot himself too.
Aside from that, there are only really two plot analyses that I'm aware of.
One is like a hundred pages long on Gamefaqs. It's got some good stuff in it, like explaining what the Yakumo is, and it also contains a translation of Hand In Killer7 which is nice, but the writer brings in a tooooonnnnn of his own ideas and conjecture into the story in order to unify every aspect of the game under, like, a single unified field theory. In the process it becomes really hard to take seriously and collapses under its own weight.
The other one is the one that posted in this thread:
>http://pastebin.com/kDeNi0md
Which is really more about trying to figure out how the timeline of Hand in Killer7 works along with the game, and acknowledges that it's impossible to stitch every element of the game into a cohesive whole because of all the cut content and clear plot revisions. It does posit some very nice conjectures and explanations, and has the advantage of not going outside the text of the game and HiK7.
It's also not stupifying long.
>>338154264
Dunno, because in some last interviews he looks like he don't know shit about KiD or LC or whatever game after NMH2
>>338154428
but would like to make new Killer7, something new after Silver Case plot
*fixed
I mean, it's just like Lynch's "Eraserhead" - you should just experience it and think through by yourself
I'm japanese how the hell should i know
>>338152084
women are all the same
>>338154264
>it's infuriating that to this day I still don't understand everything about the games
Why can't you types accept mystery?
I helped write a guide for it back in the day. Just a web one on Gfaqs, nothing major. Easily one of my favourite games and arguably my favourite Suda51 game, if not for NMH having more entertaining gameplay.
The plot is a mess but intentionally so, much like a lot of Suda's stuff. If you boil it down it becomes something much more simple but a lot less amusing since the fun is in letting it be confusing.
Dan is best Smith, Coyote best reload, Garcian voted handsomest motherfucker.
Found in my Killer7 folder, trying to figure out where the hell it's from.
It is a Hand in Killer7 thing?
>>338144759
at the time my tier list was:
>KILLER7 tier
kevin smith
>EBIN tier
dan smith
>OKAY tier
kaede smith
>MEH tier
mask de smith
>ONLY TO SOLVE PUZZLE tier
con smith, coyote smith
>NOT MY NIGGA tier
garcian smith
>SPECIAL tier
hartman smith
does it make sense?
>>338150379
when he stop being traumatize after what EA did to him
>>338147714
I wouldn't forget that Dimitri also has the same distinctive haircut and a similar dress-sense to Emir/Garcian, especially in his Lion manifestation.
The simplest explanation to the contradictory Union 7 vs Smith Syndicate murder is that the HiK7 account reflects propaganda on the event - The Liberal Party members of the Union were assassinated, but someplace else, and events were warped so they died in the hotel to cover up the true deaths of the Syndicate.
The piece misunderstands Occam's Razor, which is a shame for an otherwise well-reasoned, acute and comprehensive narrative. Occam's Razor means that explanations that equally fit the evidence, but rest upon differing levels of assumptions, are more or less likely based on that level. The guess about the Union being present in the same hotel as the Syndicate is not much of a reach - assassination groups are hired by political agencies and also used to target political agencies, there are many grounds from them to occupy physical proximity. Regardless, as an assumption it is no more a stretch than the rest of the document. I prefer my own cover-up explanation but the "simultaneous murder, only one reported angle" is similarly sound.
To contrast, the theory of a second setting of murders 30 years later "neatly" explains many things - but so does the hypothesis "A witch did it!". Reality isn't made out of neat explanations, and the common misquotation of Occam's Razor as "The simplest is most likely" is fallacious and the hard inversal of actual Occam's Razor. The 1980's idea is on a similar level to the previous suggestions but is still based on large assumptions; more uniquely, it guesses as to Suda's intent, which is a friskier barrel of frogs than the previous ones.
Very impressive on the whole. I realise that it's a different document to the GameFAQs one now, and a lot more analytic and that.
>>338151003
depends does grasshopper own the ip? capcom published it right?
>>338150379
When he starts directing games again. He hasn't since NMH1.
>>338155340
Capcom owns the ip
>>338151093
No more heroes is the start of Grindhouse Suda. Killer7 was the last Suda trying to be David Lynch. honestly i loved all of his games but i miss his old style
>>338155056
Looks ripped directly from the GFAQS plotguide. Also yes, but likely with fancanon.
>>338144759
one of the worst games I've ever played
>>338150254
I could accept him being gay, but a gay FAGGOT? Beyond the pale, smug albino muteman.
>>338150521
I can't tell the number of times I've recounted Andrei's introductory speech as a way to get people playing this game.
>The NAME'S Andrei Ulmeyda
>And I am the MAAAAAN with the PLAN!
>The people will come to me! For SAL-VA-TION!
>>338154998
Because the game didn't strike me as something left open for interpretation. The entire game I felt like suda had a clear cut story and all these references but made his top priority to muddle it as much as possible. Wether this was due to time constraints or just intentional, I don't know but there's a fucking reason to every detail in the game.
It's too elaborate a plot to just leave details open for guessing.
>>338152002
>Do you allow Japan to get nuked into oblivion
I choose that but in the end it doesn't matter it always end the same.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nw1jNELOVH8
>>338153897
How long ago were those interviews published?
>>338150893
Funkiest unrealeased soundtracks coming through:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FfRNN6yDUWU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8r-pa8DCBNo
>>338150254
so?
>>338155678
Cam Clarke, right? I still find it absurd that his actual voice is so flamboyant yet he did such a good job making characters with balls and charisma. Kratos Aurion was the dad I never had.
>>338155678
[BEATING OFF FOUR TIMES A DAY INTENSIFIES]
>>338155790
when does the first one sound?
>>338155840
Yup. He was also the weird shopkeeper in Damned.
>>338151225
>Kaede
I had heard something different for Kaede. When she hears Emir coming she made "barriers". She closed and locked her door, she ran into the wardrobe and closed herself in, but in the end Emir still breaks in and shot her. So in game she actually breaks through a lot of these invisible barriers
>>338153829
Shinji Mikami wrote it with him. The game is actually fairly Mikami-esque if you think about it: Cinematic stylings, purposefully restricted controls, guns etc.
>>338154254
sucks that they cut him off
>tfw you loved the soundtrack so much you rearranged it chronologically track by track
But then the additional cut tracks surfaced and ruined everything
>>338151951
Something bother you?
>>338154428
Basically he gives ideas and let his team do all the work and probably doesn't get involve that much unlike in killer7 where mikami heavily insisted he works all scenario by himself which he did
>>338152002
Shot him straight in the head the first time and third times, let him take over the second time. Now I coin flip - Heads he stays, Tails he goes.
>>338155324
I'm the writer of that piece, so I appreciate the feedback!
>The simplest explanation to the contradictory Union 7 vs Smith Syndicate murder is that the HiK7 account reflects propaganda on the event - The Liberal Party members of the Union were assassinated, but someplace else, and events were warped so they died in the hotel to cover up the true deaths of the Syndicate.
Hadn't thought of that, honestly. That's a pretty neat interpretation, and one that fits into the text of the story nicely.
I understand Occam's Razor, and I'd agree that I misconstrued it in this piece. However the point I'm making I think still stands without that: it's clear that at some point in the construction of the narrative, a separate action taken by Harman and Garcian was pruned out. Notice how Mills explicitly refers to the two of them "You and Harman", not to the Syndicate as a whole; he might indeed be referring to all seven in the "you" part, but since at this stage of the story Garcian believes that each persona is indeed a distinct entity, that wouldn't make any sense to him. Something obviously happened in the 1980s which isn't touched on in the game outside of that one truncated conversation, something significant enough that Mills would be nervous telling Garcian about it and that the government would want to kill him for it.
You gave me some good food for thought though.
>>338153241
>Bad trees must be taken by their roots. I hope you... are not one of them.
>Goodnight, child. It's past your bedtime.
>>338155961
Also the best Miller. Robby will never be as good to me, even if his delivery was excellent.
Didn't Liam O'Brian or his voicealike do the main character from Killer is dead? I think its actually someone else but he sure as fuck sounds like him. Or was Liam David?
>>338155790
It's a shame masafumi left grasshopper
>>338155056
I remember reading about the Heaven's Tears and trying to imagine how that would play out ideologically and recruit wise. Now I know; SJWS.
>>338155393
>>338155340
It's not all completely a lost cause. Fairly certain that in some polls asking what games they would like to see HD-ified, Killer7 was in the list.
So at the very least they know the game exists.
>>338155958
I genuinely can't remember, I think it might be cut.
>>338155840
The one and only. He is so magnificently gay, and he made the original TMNT cartoon based.
>>338156430
>I'm telling you straight up, this is about it from me. I wish you all the luck, and die like a dog. Then laugh it off. I'll be waiting for you with a grin as wide as the truth.
>>338156250
No problem! The mystery of what happened in the 80's is something that needs to be accounted. Honestly, I like that the two-incidents theory also accounts for Garcian being an adult in the Dan flashback, which I had always put down as an error. Still, it could be that that 30 years thing was also an error than Suda missed when proofreading the game, an article of some ancient draft not even fit to appear in Hand. We just dunnuo.
>>338156526
Aye, a cryer. Let us pray for Killer14 some day.
>killer 7 thread
>people thinking Russian roulette scene wasn't greatest scene in the game
777-come-on-son
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g_8KzyBl3mc
>>338157230
God i'd kill for a Killer14. Not 14 personas, though. I'd be happy with just 8, if only to satisfy their reincarnations and also give Harman's youthful persona a bit more play. I'd actually fucking love that too much for words. Don't tempt me anon.
>>338157141
You've got me thinking about the double murders now at the Union and how that fits in, and it makes out the US Government to be even bigger dicks than they already are.
To wit:
>Emir has a psychotic break at Coburn and murders his teacher, Harman Smith and stuffs him into a safe
>He goes to the Hotel and kills the other six members of the Smith Alliance
>The US Government is observing him, and sees an opportunity
>As he's killing the Smiths, they got through and take out the members of the Union 7 party and seize the Yakumo
>The "cover-up" that Young Harman refers to in the room of the Hotel is the government's disinformation that turns two incidents into one, and laying the blame/credit for the Union7 killings on the Bloody Heartland.
Since he and the Smiths are all dead, it works out perfectly for them.
The US might even have used the Smith Alliance to kill the Union7-- why else would they be at the hotel at the same time as the Union7? Alternately, Harman Smith/Deltahead may have gone down and killed the Union7 after absorbing Emir and the rest of the Smiths.
It's all conjecture, of course, but there's so little to go on that all possibilities are equally valid.
I'm still on the side of the "two separate incidents" theory because that conversation with Mills sticks in my brain like a thorn.
>>338157446
Motherfucker its that, Ulmeyda or the scene with the HANDSOME MEN.
>>338157657
>>338157230
I rather have different game but has surrealism that killer7 had
>FIRST MATCH UP
>HARMAN SMITH VS HANDSOME RED
>HAJIME!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zqOhPvthFUs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PXwWjxbzuIk
another favorite of mine
>>338157898
Its a fucking shame that he'll never get to make anything with a proper budget. Maybe that's why his stuff's so good, barring the ugly abomination that was SotD, and that was only because of some meddling that like Evil Within makes me feel that someone's taking away the fun somewhere. Both those games had so much potential but were reduced to such dull games that it STILL makes me wonder who put the axe to the original ideas.
>>338158128
What was the artist's name again? Something Miles? His artwork killing him was one of thw best parts. Oh fuck, and all the different anime cutscenes by different studios.
I remember at least two, but I couldn't say if there are more or not.
>>338157657
>>338157898
What with all the talk of multiple Harman Smith/Deltaheads running around, perhaps two competing teams of revenant psyches could follow the plot of the game? First you play through as one, then playthrough as the other. Regardless, the game would be even more Sci-fi than Killer7 - we're talking hundred years into the future balls-to-the-wall speculative fiction here. It could be quite the experience.
>>338157727
That's exactly the train of thought I was thinking! The union 7 were murdered after the Syndicate's death, as a conveniant way to explain the murders without letting anyone know who. I had rival Japanese politicians in mind, but the American gov makes more sense as they wouldn't want anyone to know their prized assassin clade got taken out by a child. Perfectly at peace with putting that egg on their rival's face, however.
I had been batting back and forth the ideas that:
- The Syndicate was staying at the hotel to assassinate the Union
- The Syndicate were hired by the union to act as counter-assassins and bodyguards, or were briefing or debriefing before or after a mission
- Both - some sort of doublecross scenario
If we lean towards the American government killing the Union, options 1 and 3 look more likely.
That said, the two incidents line nicely accounts for the '80s. Garcian even looks about the right age for someone who was 14 in 1980 - less so for a 14 year old in 1955, a little younger than my youngest grandparent. Could anything else account for the 80's remark, beside the "Oda forgot" hypothesis?
>>338158480
>What was the artist's name again? Something Miles?
Trevor Pearlharbor
>>338158226
Oh man, THIS is the villain moment a thousand flicks and franchises dream of featuring. Blackburn may have been one chapter, but those fucking words bite.
Fun fact - Blackburn's va is the same guy that did Senator Nanomachines from Revengeance. Alistair Mcsomethingoranother. Based guy.
>>338157657
>>338157898
>>338157230
All this talk of sevens and fourteens suddenly reminded me of another gang of criminals/killers, The Felt, who are numerically themed. They have 14 core members and one of them, member #7 - Crowbar - could easily fit into the K7 universe. It's almost perfect!
>>338158519
There's literally nothing. It can only be a holdover from a prior story beat. Being that that's the case it's tempting to ignore it, and you could if it was just a little side-detail, but it's literally the thing that kills Christopher Mills, the characters whose been in the game since the first chapter. You can't, really.
To me this is literally the only remaining mystery of Killer7. Everything else can be chalked up to psychological symbolism, but this is stuff that happened external to the psychic universe of the Smiths, something that affected the world as a whole. And it sticks out like a sore thumb. It's awesome.
>>338158519
That's actually a fantastic idea. And were Suda given some level of creative freedom the contrasts and similarities between members and their motivations could be absolutely balls to the wall fun.
>>338158550
Right you are. Did anyone else enjoy seeing Kun-Lan's face revealed at the end? Or the DID of the save room woman? Hell, even getting locked out of saving in Harman's room was a great plot point as well as gameplay quirk.
>>338158893
best part is when he tries to die in style and goes to validate his life but dan has known of it and just reveals curtis for the scumbag he is. I can easily imagine Curtis Blackburn in Killer7 or no more heroes with his pure villain character
>>338158893
I will never forget the duel with him and Dan Smith. I don't care if cowboy fetishism is fucking retarded, I will always romanticise the idealogy of the warriors on the cliffside.
Is it on PS store? Huge suda/grasshopper fan, but I only played his most modern works and I don't want to buy a ps2 just to play this.but I will if there's no other choice
Also, not exactly on topic but since I saw it mentioned why was killer is dead so mediocre compared to his usual stuff? I mean, I liked it more that lolipop chainsaw but still.
>>338155997
The Grasshopper art book says that Suda wrote the whole thing, because Mikami himself didn't want anyone else doing it.
>>338150521
I really like the artstyle of the anime cutscene too. Wasnt it madhouse that made this one?
>>338159434
>Why was killer is dead so mediocre compared to his usual stuff
Once you play Killer7 you'll see what we mean. Killer is Dead is trying really hard to emulate Killer7, but ultimately has little going on beneath the surface.
>>338156453
He did the brother. Mondo was Patrick Seitz.
>>338157446
One of the best scenes in games, period.
>>338159434
>I don't want to buy a ps2 just to play this.
Emulate the GC version, it's much better.
>>338157727
I haven't played Smile in a while, but reading again Hand in Killer 7 I came up with another thing.
Emir supposedly became Garcian at 14 years old, but in Killer 7 he's frozen at 33. He was 33 when Dan died at Curtis' hands in 1975 and Garcian resurrected him and the Smiths' ages don't match with some facts (Kaede being a lover for Matsuken, Kevin having a life in Miami) if they were absorbed in the 50s and out of commission in the 90s.
The timeline says that the Killer 7 incident happened in 1955, but two years later:
"1957: The second Smith syndicate is formed with seven personaes."
I was wondering what if the Killer 7 had different members shifting as time passes with Dan being absorbed in 75', Kevin in 80', and only Harman and Garcian being a constant?
>>338159434
GameCube version if the original, while the PS2 version is a subpar port. It you can, emulate the original.
>>338158893
>>338158893
Blackburn is one hell of a villain. Unashamedly cruel, hyper violent and disturbing beyond measure.
He celebrates his retirement performing taxidermy on immigrant children and destroying the families of his former business partners.
>>338159626
Thanks man. Lima's a little too one trick pony most of the time but he sold David to me. That final battle is pretty fun on the hardest difficulty. I think there were difficulties, at least.
>>338159545
It certainly feels that way. The exaggerated everything is really remniscent of their stuff.
>>338159434
Emulation or no choice
>>338159565
You sure about that? it doesn't feel like that at all to me. It's more it's purposefully being shallow. I mean shit Mondo doesn't even question who wires are till fucking chapter 7
>>338159720
The personas have been a constant since they were absorbed by Emir Parkreiner. As it says in the image a fair ways up, Final Mask De Smith is now the leading persona but still retains the moniker of his previous self, albeit with the same theme of the more extravagant the mask the more extravagant the man and his acts. Theoretically Garcian isn't even Emir as we know him, just a body for the Seven to inhabit. Hell, one can come to all sorts of wacky conclusions. The only constant is the Smith Syndicate and Harman being eternal, just as Kun-Lan and the Hand of God are eternal.
>>338158927
You know what, I think I'm persuaded. I like my cover-up angle but Mills was a very significant character, and his death was very important. A theory that accounts for that without contradicting canon and with a minimalist assumption, I can get behind.
>>338159065
Fuck yeah. Just imagine the level of creativity in the NMH assassins, in a game with political and religious clout.
If I met Suda, I'd probably hug the bastard. Handshake would be too impersonal.
>>338159107
What kind of sick monster taxidermises 14 year-old girls, anyway? I know Pedro was a monster but christ on a bicycle.
BTW, was the girl in the government building Curtis storms Pedro's daughter, or was that Ayame Blackburn before her recruitment? I can't remember if a definitive answer was given in game. Ayame's face is similar to the girl, but similar to a lot of girls in the game, with a different haircut if I recall.
>>338159720
It's possible. There are really two interpretations you can take of that:
1.) When a Smith needs to perform a long-term operation, such as Dan working for Curtis or Kevin fighting the pharmaceutical mafia in Florida, that persona discharged by the core persona (Garcian) for the duration of that mission, or
2.) The needed persona simply becomes the main persona of the Syndicate for the duration-- in other words, the Syndicate remains intact but the other personae are dormant until needed.
Either explanation works because we know from HiK7 that it's possible for a person to be a temporary persona of the Smith Syndicate (like Samantha), and there's nothing in the text of the game to disprove either.
>>338160476
pretty sure that was Ayame Blackburn. Pretty sure that hotel job was his final gig and he just kidnapped her and brainwashed her to kidnap the little girls for him.
>>338160212
KiD had supposedly gone through some very odd revisions throughout development, likely owing to,like many of Suda's games, a very heavy shift in the market at the time. Keep in mind that there were two or three almost fully fleshed out chapters torn from the game in the same way as the DLC missions were. Possibly as more DLC, likely as a means to keep it within budgetary constraints and to keep the release logical.
>>338155210
Coyote is one of the most convenient character to play with Dan.
Don't know how to use your xp? Just buff coyote, it'll be worth it.
Is it true the Jap version of the game has all of the ghosts speaking in clearer English?
>>338160814
it's true the game was criminally short, but at the same time Killer 7 got the same treatment, it's pretty common knowledge there was supposed to be missions to clear up the pasts of the other smiths as well, and I'm pretty sure tex-mex episode was supposed to help resolve coyote's past
>>338160908
Yeah, they just say their lines in Engrish. Doesn't really work for the english translation, so they obscured it with voice filters.
>>338152747
This, I remember being obsessed with the Killer7 lore in mid 00's.
>>338159720
Is he frozen at 33? I remember thinking his age was fixed (immortality and that) but I can't remember when it was confirmed.
In any case, Smith member's absorption from differing eras makes sense; Con for instance feels like a modern phenomena, an 80's kid at the latest, not something from the 50's-60's.
>>338159292
>>338159918
You just need pure evil sometimes. I mean, Curtis is inevitable charismatic, but you don't have to go out of your way to give a bad man likeable moments and traits. Killer7 is a very grey and grey (or grey and red) moral experience, but knowing that Curtis Blackburns flourish in its dark corners sharpens everything. Everything is at stake, from the grandest geopolitics to any child's life.
>>338159434
Buy a Wii.
Hack your Wii.
Gain free access to the entire gamecube and wii library.
Are the Smiths even people? Are they not just ideas? Hell, do they not in their own way represent a very obvious sin? I think that was posited in the GFaqs plot guide,though.
>>338160618
I'm not trying to push the theory, but the thing that made me start to think about it was the strange mentions of relationship between the members of the syndicate, and above everything, the detailed story of Harman interacting with Dan's corpse at 75', and for the first time apparent to me, absorbing him into the syndicate.
HOLY FUCK, can't believe I missed the news about Silver Case FINALLY coming to the west.
HOLY SHIIIIIIIIIIIIIIITTTTTTT.
>>338160669
If so, Curtis acts fast. He turned a normal child into a preternatural high-speed assassin that turns incorporeal in darkness in maybe a week.
Was it a hotel? I thought it was the immigration office. Then again, the building in Angel was seemingly many things, so who knows.
>>338152084
>You'll never be president since you can't fool this young fella.
Anyone here read Hand in Killer7?
I heard it fucks up with most fan theories but is also inconsistent itself
>I feel my blood rushing through my body. Yes... This is it. The feeling is coming back to me! The sensation of killing! The doom and darkness. The dark streets. They're calling me. Calling me to the ultimate ring!
>>338161362
There's a strong case to be made that there is no magical body-swapping taking place at all.
Garcian/Emir is instead an absolute headcase that carries around the weapons of the assassin's he feels guilty about killing and pretends to be them in order to have them 'resurrected'. The only reason we see the body swapping happening is because we are playing as Emir, and that is what he perceives happening.
Of course, certain scenes, such as Dan's interactions with Blackburn, suggest otherwise.
>>338157446
so what if he killed himself before the final shot? Then he couldnt tell you about women?|
>>338161619
That's what I thought was happening when I first played but there's definitely some magic mumbojumbo going on.
You know it's really hard to understand whether or not Harman is actually Harman or Emir.
Garcian is his own man and can practically decide his fate if he wants to stay with his Killer instincts or Be the controlled Puppet the government needs.
The ambiguity, the scenery, the graphics, the sounds, everything about it is so crisp and perfect.Do you guys actually hate Killer is Dead or think it's mediocre? I thought the gameplay was generally solid and the graphics were beautiful. I get the story falls flat but I don't see how it's "All style, no substance" I personally thought Brian and David were pretty colorful characters and generally fun.
Mondo being idiotic also added another layer of what I liked about the game.
this game is way better than no more heroes
>>338161520
immigration office would make more sense considering dan's references (they were involved in the organ smuggling and curtis could have been tying up loose ends as usual). Someone in the comments also pointed Curtis only loaded 5 bullets so it could have been a mere coincidence she didn't die. Also ayama blackburn wasn't a child, she was adopted. in the Cutscene here she's a grown women
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7O7dnnEMeMU
>>338161717
He was probably joking, seems like a pretty useless piece of advice for an assassin to know.
>>338160908
Yep, which is to say Nope because it's (possibly deliberately) mangled engrish ran through very common machine readers.
I remember messing about with an apple computer in a shop when I was 17, and excitedly discovering that I could literally make it talk like Travis Bell. All whispering and evil. I found a sheep voice that also sounded like one of the random ghosts.
>>338161307
The more I think about, the more I realise it was the highlight of my mid-to-late teens. So far the whole "12 year old is best year old" theory has held strong for me, as that's when I played SM Sunshine, Metroid Prime and Fusion and a whole load of other Nintendo classics. But Killer7 seems to be part of a second spike around the ages 15-18, which is chiefly defined by music I like.
Does anyone else reckon this fits for them? Either as an alternative or compliment to the 12 year old taste spike.
>>338161424
So are you positing that the initial murders that caused the current Smith Syndicate to form happened over the course of several decades instead of one night? That's a fascinating idea.
The only thing that gives me pause about that theory is that the way Emir's murders are the hotel are shown makes it seem as if they occurred at the same time, especially Coyote, Kaede and Dan all seem aware of spree, especially Dan, who calls him out on it.
Then again we're also talking about narrative that, if it existed at all, was cut from the game so it's well within the realm of speculation. It's an awesome idea though that would help support what is described in Hand in Killer7. In fact, if it weren't for the flashback that takes place in the final part of Smile I'd assume that's exactly what happened. But of course then it takes away Emir's guilt somewhat. He'd still be guilty of killing the Union 7, but not killing the other personae, at least if Dan is any indication.
This game is so weird, I love it.
>>338161791
The ending of Killer is Dead is an awesome sword-fight on the moon to orchestral music. So yes, it has genuine merit as a fun stylish game.
>>338161791
KiD is pretty funny in that it tries to tease you into thinking there is a deeper story but it never bothers to do so till the very end when it's too late. You definitely get the sense everyone knows what going on and what's going to happen except for mondo and Mika
>>338161619
Well that's exactly it. Does a boy raised in a heavily religiously themed school with ties to a political sleeper agent assassin training ground have anything to go by other than his own insanity? Is there any magic at all? Are the smiles not just people given monstrous shape to allow Emir to kill them without mercy or feeling? Are Harman and Kun-Lan anything but representatives of the scales of power and the global sides of conflict manipulating everyone as though it were just a game?
>>338161619
>There's a strong case to be made that there is no magical body-swapping taking place at all.
Johnny, the guy that writes the pigeon letters, literally claims to see Kaede slit her wrist and destroy an invisible barrier. A lot of stuff in game hinges on other characters interacting with the different Smith personas after they were killed at the hotel. You could chalk it up to Garcian re-interpreting everything directed to him, as directed to his personas, but the seems like a huge stretch.
>>338161362
They were definitely real assassins once, but how exactly they live on as Harman/Garcian's personas is abstract.
As >>338161619 points out, Curtis interacts naturally with Dan, not as if some random giant black was acting like him. Curtis however is also a supernatural assassin, and unlike the Smiths and Heaven Smile, the origin of his powers is unknown. Maybe Curtis is also some kind of regenerating immortal-thing, using new bodies and persona to live on? Curtis sees Dan and Dan sees Curtis, even though both of them have died many times over, their personaes incarnate in others.
>>338161619
Its pretty weird since there is a big reveal that you actually have all the weapons in your suitcase (implying you are just masquerading as all the personas). But at the other hand you always change persona with a TV/camera and people seem to talk to each person like it really is that person. Also there is enough magic in the world to allow body switching
>>338161619
>>338162196
Dan's interactions with Curtis don't preclude body-swapping, since Curtis could just conclude that Emir is Dan, and Emir only perceives Dan as a different person because he's insane. When Emir perceives Dan he sees a surly, black haired irishman. When Curtis sees Dan, he sees a black guy.
This falls apart when you try to fit Harman into things. Like I said in the pastebin at the top of this thread, Garcian doesn't carry Harman's rifle in his case, so it can't be the case that Harman is just another fragment of Emir's psyche. He has to be an entity on a higher level entirely from the syndicates psychic matrix.
>>338161880
You're definitely older than I am by a good six or so years. I played Killer7 when I was 12 or so myself and found it groundbreaking in terms of content and design. Hell, I may have been even younger. But I was also raised on playing RE2 and Shadowman with my dad and watching the Eva movies around their English release, so i'm not the most typical of examples.
K7 was 2k3, right?
>>338161791
Graphics are nice. Combat is pretty decent, Suda's best by far. Apart from that though it felt like it was going through the motions. For example, it's a Suda game it needs to have a fight against a lone wolf Japanese guy. It's a Suda game so we need to have a nonsensical bizarre boss fight with Tommy the Train etc. Basically I feel that the game wasn't too different in style from NMH, Lollipop Chainsaw, it was another wacky hack n slash except with a dumb plot.
That said though the final boss fight is legitimately amazing and all of the girls are top tier.
>tfw you fuck Scarlett
>>338161791
The problem wasn't that it was all style no substance, but that it teased you with substance and then didn't deliver. It feels like there's a very clear narrative involving David, Mondo, Moon River, Mika, and Dolly, along with the Earth, Sun, and Moon, but so little is explained, if at all, that you can't really reach any sort of conclusion as to what the fuck just happened. Instead of being stylish, it just feels like you got blue-balled instead. I love the core gameplay, but everything is interrupted by cutscenes and dialogue so often that it feels like a chore to play through, which is a shame when the animations and controls are so fluid.
>>338161816
It could've been a coincidence, or Curtis could've knowingly brought five bullets, and the girl was Pedro's daughter he was planning to kill by beheading.
Watching the video right now, the revolving doors do add to the feeling of a hotel, but the desks upstairs and everything else indicate government office.
The girl and the building and Ayame (same or different) are at least 14, but it's hard to say if they're full adults. Small physique, not particularly mature dress sense etc. About in range for Curtis's line of work.
>>338161863
and how is he gonna kill the president if he blows his brains out?
I like the scene but the whole thing feels just really strange. Like some dream
>>338162490
But when does Harman actually use his rifle? I remember 3 scenes, tops. He's just another representation of Emir's shattered psyche, and Samantha is presumably just a means for Garcian to settle himself into the idea that what he sees is still real and not just his deluded fantasy.
God I love this game.
>>338161985
It's possible that the Syndicate murdered at the Hotel were already dead-then-resurrected apparitions of Harman's mind, killed and absorbed by an incarnation of Harman in the intervening 25 years. Emir shapeshifts into the regular Smith members but Harman can appear independently, and Emir isn't as powerful as Harman - he is operating on diluted or borrowed resurrection powers. At full strength, Harman Smith/Deltahead could have been strong enough to manifest six whole assassins external of his physique, a Pokemon team of psychotic killers.
This is spitballing as there's no evidence any ressurecter/absorber could do this. But it does tie loose ends minimally, and we know Garcian lacks the full Harman package. It's a bit like, Emir killed the syndicate but Harman absorbed Emir. Now the transformed Emir acts as a limited reviver for the syndicate, with Harman as a seperate, sometimes-possessive controller.
>Had a very short assignment to write at 9:00pm
>This thread happened
>It's 2:19am now, and I finally wrote it
Thanks for the thread lads, always enjoy talking about Killer7 (the amount of serious discussion is fantastic) but I have to go to sleep.
See you all later for whenever the next thread happens or when The Silver Case comes out on PC.
>>338155056
>override mask de smith
Holy fuck, that sounds radical for a sequel
>>338161880
Yeah, that's pretty much what was going on with me as well, I remember playing killer7 on my late teens and it pretty much defined a whole new kind of concept in video games for me, I don't know if it was the writing and the music or me just being over obsessed with the game but it pretty much defined a lot of my "now a days" standards on the medium. I don't know man, I guess I just really liked the game.That said, I never gotgud enough to beat Killer8 and never got to see hopper7.;_;7
>>338162610
Damn, when you were 12? I played K7 for the first time when I was 13, and I found it a bit overwhelming (I was literally too short-attention-span to hack the combat and I didn't get what Travis was all about). I went back to it when I was 15 and everything clicked beautifully - I think my brain evolved in those intervening two years (I may be a late developer, as I didn't understand most of Spaceballs when I watched it at 11 unlike my friends). But fuck, 12? That's impressive man, I wish my students were that mature.
I think K7 was that, although my brain sometimes says 2005. I was born Oct 1991, so I was 13 from late 2004 to late 2005 - yeah, turns out my brain was right. 2005's the year.
>The Regenerators from RE4 were based on Heaven Smile
>No one barely knows this
>There will never be a Killer7 remake further explaining other Smiths' backstories and with better controls
Nice to see a good thread on /v/.
>>338163818
Remakes suck these days it probably wouldn't be that great.
>>338163208
The use of Harman's weapons acts as an audio cue for how they operate, and also when they're present at all. For instance, there's no doubt that Young Harman murdered Old H and Kun Lan in the chess room, as his distinctive rapid-firing gun is the only weapon you can use in game. When neither of their weapons turns up in the attache case - where you collect the normal Smith's severed heads, I might add - it's a sign something's up.
There's a nice contrast between the weapons of Harman young and old incidentally. Harman's gun is clearly monstrously strong, and each slow, long-reaching, well-placed round generally oneshots targets it impacts. However, it's useless against his main enemy Kun Lan, who laughs off direct rounds and even uses them as a lift to gain distance and height from Harman. Meanwhile the crude and dated expedient of the Chicago typewriter happens to rape Kun Lan, and is also so effective against Smiles that it doesn't need blood upgrades. Old Harman is politically powerful, but rather inert compared to the younger, god-killing assassin.
>>338163323
Bless that assignment bro. See you on the other side,with a grin as wide as the truth.
>>338163565
LOL GIT GUD SCRUB HOW DID YOU NOT LMAO PRAISE THE YAKUMO XD
Killer 8 was fucking rough. It took me til I was 16.
>>338163617
Keep in mind I could hardly wrap my head around the plot in any real fashion. It was just this heavy, dark and a little nutty example of what games could be if they weren't just shooterman or action boy. But as I said, Shadowman and Re2 as a boy. And Shadowman was awful. Dad had me come downstairs and fight bosses for him because he couldn't. I had nightmares from that game but had a masochistic love for how hard it was and how terrifying it could be.
It was a 2k5 release. You're actually not as much older as I thought. Don't be a Harman or that child-raping principal please.
>>338164052
>Old Harman is politically powerful, but rather inert compared to the younger, god-killing assassin.
Holy shit anon, some of your interpretations are top-tier.
>>338162490
What? Curtis met Dan before he died, he would know what Curtis looked like.
>>338159263
OOOIUUUUHH, MSTA SMTH? :-)
>>338163565
It was hard but very rewarding for my 18 year-old self to nail Killer8 at last. If you're over 20 now I reckon you can crack it, it really makes you think about preserving resources, levelling wisely, EVADING ALL DAMAGE and so on.
My theory model is as follows: psychology has shown or largely proven key development stages in children at intervals of 3-3.5 years. 3.5 year olds gain more consequentialist reasoning, and 7 year olds have more awareness and barter more tacticall for goods. 9-10 year old gain ideas of tribal belonging and status. So 12 year olds gain a codified idea of what they find fun and engaging, while 15 year olds gain a sense of depth, hidden meaning to things and so on. I'm not quite sure what I'd put at 18, but it seems to be a rounding off of the picture.
>mfw I learned Harman was voiced by Howling Mad Murdock
>>338163818
Suda was Mikami's protege, same as Hideki Kamiya. He especially liked how Suda was capable of delivering something that was far more terrifying and camp than RE as a plot while still retaining the its a video game excuse.
>>338164052
He isn't collecting the heads. He's collecting the guns. More importantly you make an excellent and very thematic observation about the two Harmans. However, keep in mind that the reason Old Harman is seen as a precise, powerful and almost unseen finger of god is because he's old and methodical. Young Harman is brash, arrogant and reckless. One is wisdom, the other the passionate fury of youth and the chaotic nature within. He has no intent but to slaughter all in his path while the other is surgically precise.
>>338163934
That's true, I wouldn't trust a remake of something recent to turn out well, let alone an 11 year old title. The horror in Killer7 is minimal and elegant, I can see a hack writer/director trying to force it.
>>338164186
I guess that's to be expected. I put it down at 13 because I literally couldn't follow it - it's the only time in my life an age-gated piece material actually struck me as meaningful, even though I still beat and understood it at 15 three years below it.
Shadowman was very heavily hyped in British gaming magazines, and my brother practically begged our mother to buy it for us. But when we tried it, it was just sort of boring and empty. Reading about its plot details in magazines was more fun than the actual game, which I cannot say for Killer7 at all.
Did Keane rape a child? He was just a sleazy political weasel who treat women like animals (I say "just"). In any case, students who don't quote Pewdiepie and make trash Youtube channels are a blessing.
>>338163262
>This is spitballing as there's no evidence any ressurecter/absorber could do this. But it does tie loose ends minimally, and we know Garcian lacks the full Harman package. It's a bit like, Emir killed the syndicate but Harman absorbed Emir. Now the transformed Emir acts as a limited reviver for the syndicate, with Harman as a seperate, sometimes-possessive controller.
This is exactly how I've come to understand the structure of the Smith Syndicate as well. Harman Smith (Deltahead/Old Harman) is at the very top; he oversees Garcian, and manifests only when he wishes (such as in Angel and Sunset at the restaurant).
Garcian is below Harman. He acts as the Core Persona of the remaining six Smiths, and manifests the physical body through which the rest appear. He's also a psychic prison keeping Emir Parkreiner and the other, Young Harman Smith contained and out of Old Harman's way.
Over the course of the game, the psychic construct that is Garcian Smith erodes due to the machinations of Kun Lan, who sees Emir Parkreiner as his ultimate tool. It backfires though: by unleashing Emir, he also releases Young Harman, who hates both Old Harman and Kun Lan and kills them again.
Maybe Kun Lan didn't know that Emir contained the suppress persona of Young Harman, or maybe he didn't care and believed that even if he was temporarily killed, Emir would carry out his wishes, since he's the product of Kun Lan's influence. But that too fails when Emir ventures into the trailer basement and destroys the last vestige of Kun Lan's influence over him.
>>338164307
If you make the argument that there is no body-swapping, then there either never was a Dan Smith, or when Curtis met Dan he was already one of Emir's split personalities, meaning that the person Curtis worked with was infact Emir Parkreiner, beleiving he was Garcian Smith, believing he was manifesting the persona of Dan Smith. If there's no body-swapping then as far as Curtis is concerned, Dan Smith was always a black dude.
It's kinda funny that Killer7 actually makes MORE sense if you assume weird magical-realism shenanigans.
>>338164252
Analyst sees, analyst types. Killer7 is excellent fodder for thematic thought. For instance, Harman is wheelchair bound, and can navigate flat ground but can't climb up heights. Iwazaru, the influence of Kun Lan's murderous nature on Emir, is completely bound but can raise and drop from the air with a magical cable. You could take that parralel further, and expand it to chess - Harman is a King, while Iwazaru is a Knight. Most of the Killer7 are pawns, with Garcian reaching the other side and promoting.
(I was looking for my "I'm a Chuckster" reaction image but found this, which feels appropriate for awesome reasons)
>>338164871
That is a cool idea actually, collecting the guns. Mask's grenade tubes might be a stretch to stuff into that small bag, but in general they all fit (heh).
Of course that is the old/young dichotomy between the Harmans, as seen in many works of fiction. But it's interesting how that's reflected in their weaponry, and in their differing efficacy against a common nemesis - or at least supposed nemesis for Old Harman, who in reality plays comfortable chess games against him and in all probability sees no reason to harm him.
Old Harman is fundamentally OK with the status quo - he sits and the top and is happy to profit from the chaos of the West's conflict with the east. Young Harman hates that and sees it as a corruption, so he overturns the tea table so to speak. You could say that the entire plot of Killer7 is Young Harman's agenda to kill Old Harman, using Garcian - perhaps an equivalent of Young Kun Lan? - as a pawn, moving piece by piece into place until it's ready to promote (manifest as Young Harman with his Tommy Gun) and slaughter the two. Not that it lasts long.
Has anyone ever thought that Killer7 had a se7en reference?
>>338161985
Something like that, I came to the same Hotel conclusion, but initaially I was actually thinking of something more like this:
In 1975, Harman sent a human agent of his, Dan, to work for Curtis in Seattle. Curtis kills Dan, and Harman absorbs him into the Killer 7.
In fact, I remembered another thing, in the original Japanese Hand in Killer 7, there's screenshots and a description for a removed chapter called "HORIZON", opening the game with Dan in Seattle going up a building to confront Curtis, and meeting Sundance Shot in the proccess. After reaching Curtis, you duel him in a match that mirrors the one in "Encounter", but this one is designed to be impossible to win, as Curtis is cheating using fake arms to shoot Dan through his shirt.
Dan dies and Garcian arrives, reviving him for the first time. On the roof Curtis attempts to escape by helicopter, but Harman appears with Samantha and shoots him with his anti tank rifle, splitting him in two.
I know, it's pretty weird. Parts from it including specific dialogue can be seen in the early trailers.
>>338165057
Shadowman was a mess from gameplay design standpoints. The levels were drawn out,the Dark Souls an awkward fetch quest and the combat fucking horrendous unless you were fully upgraded.
However, the plot and audio was incredible to me. I know Acclaim is reasonably shit on and for good reason but god damn did they have some talent hidden away. Anyone who says Turoks were bad before the remake should be shot on sight.
Not Keane, Nightmare. For some reason I always remember them as the other person. I have no proof to back up that theory, I just presume that an obese man in an elementary school that you have to shoot the cock off of was likely somehow involved in some very heavy child petting.
Interesting that you're from the UK. I'm from Canada and judging from what you're saying you had a much different interaction with gaming than I did.
>>338164052
>Old Harman is politically powerful, but rather inert compared to the younger, god-killing assassin.
This makes sense too if you consider how these characters came into existance.
Old Harman is Harman Deltahead, a person who was born in the 1700s and created the first Smith Syndicate. When he became an assassin, he created the persona of Harman Smith-- a feared killer of godlike power. At this stage, the Syndicate is composed of three personas (that we know of):
>Harman Deltahead, the founder
>Harman Smith, the killer
>Three Eyes Dmitri, the original owner of the God Killer power and possibly the originator of the multifoliate persona disorder
Harman Smith is a creation of Harman Deltahead, a mask he wears as an assassin to strike fear into his enemies and instill confidence in his benefactors. At this stage, that's all Harman Smith is.
the problem occurs when the first Smith Syndicate dissolves, because when it does so it breaks into three people, not just two. Dmitri and Harman Deltahead were real humans before it happened, so that makes sense. But Harman Smith, originally a fabrication of Harman Deltahead, is for all intents and purposes a real person within the psychic matrix of the Syndicate, so when it breaks up he becomes an entity all his own-- something more than human, given that he lives for over a hundred years according to Hand in Killer7.
Harman Deltahead, who we'd identify as Old Harman, is always a figure of control and manipulation. He doesn't get his hands dirty, that's what the personas are for. As long as he can distance himself from those who do the actual killing, he remains untouched.
Harman Smith, the man we'd recognize as Young Harman, is a being that exists for no other reason than to kill. He was created by Harman Deltahead as his own personal cipher in the assassination business, and he does so happily, hence his weapon of choice.
>>338165486
I read a really neat article about chess analogies in Killer is Dead.
>>338165105
This is bob-on man. I read this just after I typed this post >>338166014 here. There's a lot in common, although I go with Young Harman as the prime manipulator. Kun Lan makes a lot more sense as a conventional opponent.
Going off of what was said in the pastebin and elsewhere in this thread, Emir is the latest in a line of killers vaguely associated with Kun Lan. Dimitri is a Russian name, while Emir is from the middle east. Both territories are at the westernmost boundary of Asia; as Kun Lan is the embodiment of the East, it fits that his prime agent of chaos against the West is closest to the West, to better infiltrate it. But Harman binds Emir to himself using the persona of Garcian. This is almost cheating on Harman's behalf, and results in the profitable stalement, with the world surrendering its bombs and Harman and Lan playing chess regularly.
So Kun is trying to bust the dichotomy and reawaken Emir as the Three-Eyed Monster. In the process, Harman's own buried young self is loosed, and chaos is achieved.
All of this is leaning towards a greater theory - that the East represents Change and Chaos while the West is Status Quo and Order. It's interesting that it would be thought this way. I can't remember if in Kabbalah, the left hand of God is the giving motivator (or "Carrot") and the right is the punishing motivator (or "Stick"). One of these would fit to East and one to West. Kun Lan's personal power - an ability unshared by others, unlike the personae and godkiller powers which are frequently redistributed - is the so-called Hand of God, which can recruit anyone fanatically to a cause. There is something very deep going on in this game, that's for sure.
>>338166414
it's a shame we never learn much about nightmare Dmitri who would have covered a lot of the loose holes in the game.
While we are talking harmans Anyone else like how Old Harman seems to represent old american politics of old intervention and watching things "on the home front' while Young harman has the brash and bold Turn of century shift look/personality when America took center stage in global affairs?
>>338166572
I remember reading that one. I felt like it was kind of stretching a bit but it was overall pretty good. Surprised that someone was able to find something substantial in KiD because I found nothing but confusion when I played it.
>tfw played Killer7 at the age of 13
Who the fuck thought this was a good birthday gift? it scared the fuck out of me. couldn't finish it up until i was 17
>>338167080
care to link?
>>338167084
i also played the game whe i was yong and never finished it.
>>338166014
Young Harman is almost anarchistic from a political standpoint. He slaughters both of the ruling idealogies of political thought without a second thought himself, firing until his large magazine is dry. He absolutely eradicates them without a care for cleanliness or even his own safety. He's not killing men, he's killing manifestations of thought. But this idea, this chaos ages and grows tired. More importantly he grows comfortable. Unrest must be civil, crimes orderly. The dollar and the people must be placated not incited. The status quo, as you stated, must be maintained. Young Harman and Old Harman are then, once again, not people but ideas. Just as Kun-Lan and the Smiths are ideas given form for the sake of narrative.
If you'd like you can even interpret Harman's tommy gun as an icon of an era where the country was run from the bottom, not the top. A tool of war made into a tool of the people as a means of taking power into their own hands.
Or i'm full of shit. I never graduated.
>>338153548
>SHIT, ITS ALL OVER
That was a good scene
I picked up Killer 7 at Walmart for like $10 because I recognized it from Nintendo Power. Turned out to be one of my favorite games. I also now beat off 4 times a day.
>>338166978
That's an awesome reading of the difference between the two of them. It actually fits in with a lot of the game's politics, in that it's rooted in preservation/stagnation vs adaptation/chaos.
I haven't fully deciphered the japanese politics of the game, but there are basically two groups: the UN Party and the Liberal Party. One group were progressives who drafted the Yakumo Cabinet Policy, but in doing so basically sowed the seeds of the chaos that is the rest of the game and lead, indirectly, to the destruction of Japan. Meanwhile the other party is a much more stay-the-course type, which ultimately leads to them pretty much letting their own country get nuked by not asserting their right to exist.
Kun Lan adopts Matsuken as his agent in all this, motivating him to take charge and contribute to the chaos, through which he hopes Japan will come out on top. At the end of the game Matsuken is in charge of 10 million secret Japanese agents, and can muster them at will to do whatever he wants, pretty much. If you don't kill him in Lion, he'll wipe out America and lead to the East's (Kun Lan)'s dominance over the West (Harman).
In the end, pretty much all of Harman's machinations are for naught. He can do nothing to affect Emir's decision on whether America survives or not.
>>338166351
Yep, that was the sense I got from reading about and then playing the game. Amazing plot about a murdered kid brother and evil psychos gettin resurrected from hell, but frustrating to actually play. There was some bridge over lava or the like that I couldn't figure out how to cross, and I just gave up.
Oh, Greg Nightmare? Well he certainly gives off a strong, grunting, hyper-sexual vibe. I don't remember anything stating that he raped kids, but there was something going on with him being hung (auto-erotic asphyxiation AND a cock pun) and having to disrobe him and shoot his glowing crotch repeatedly.
Then come those swaggering, invincible Black Smiles - come to think of it, I haven't seen much analysis of these dudes in many places. Following on with the Chess metaphor I gave earlier, the 8 black Smiles are obviously Kun Lan's counter to the Killer 7 - and in Killer 8 mode, instead of Emir killing the last one with the Golden Gun and then proceeding to nail Nightmare, the eighth smile kills Young Harman effortlessly and just leaves Garcian to kill Nightmare. Makes you wonder about the motivation and purpose to the Black Smiles, killing Young Harman but almost by-design letting Emir live and take out Greg, who was housing the Black Smiles in the first place.
Now I'm also wondering if there's a pool metaphor in Killer7. Garcian is dressed in white, but generally not a combat class. Instead, he nudges the more colourful players - the other Smill personae - around, like a cue ball. Harman Smith bears the long-barrelled AP rifle - thematically a pool cue; Young Harman also has a long weapon, while everyone else in the Syndicate uses short guns. But then Emir gets the Golden Gun, and can suddenly kill black smiles - "potting the black" so to speak. He can evil kill translucent smiles without scanning them - a bit like rounding off the spare balls after a game of pool is won, no more need to use the cueball or anything. The smiles are just a distraction.
Anyone has a link for the Grasshopper artbook?
>>338167084
Twelve here. Spooky but didn't compare to the stuff I was used to.
>>338166874
I'm guns in bag anon. I like your ideas. Good stuff. Are you the teacher anon?
>>338167242
I just realised I read it ontumblrbut here you go.
http://globegander.tumblr.com/post/59854327305/killer-is-chess-chess-motifs-in-killer-is-dead
He's written quite a bit on the game, this isn't his only article either. Some of it is a bit shit but there are some decent points brought up.
>>338166351
Seperate post for the last paragraph, as I literally reached character limit with the other one. I'm from the north of england, which is different to the environment of Landan and elsewhere down south (honestly, it feels like London is it's own country these days, the only place in "Britain" that's actually Britain - everything else is divided into Scotland, Wales, North Ireland, West Country, South England and North England, each of which are very different and don't turn up on TV much). I'm not sure how much of it is an influence, as people tend to be grump and insular and video gaming still isn't a norm around here. Myself and my brother were the only kids to pick games over football (soccer, or "not handegg") every time.
Some one explain this fucking scene to me, because i simply don't get it.
https://youtu.be/2YBwi7Nk_1M
>This blood, it tastes like Mr. Ulmeyda's.
>>338166414
Now this is the stuff! Harman Smith along these lines really is the weapon gone rogue. Harman's slippery mistep in his otherwise-meticulously calculated youth - a nuclear chain reaction waiting to catch up to him, most of his energy as an old man spent accounting for and neutralising it while still pressing it's will to work.
How exactly did the original syndicate dissolve again? I don't believe it's been covered in Hand.
>>338166572
If only I played that game. Alas, I stopped buying consoles and games in 2010.
>Weekly k7 threads on v now
I fucking love you guys
>>338149269
That image reminds me of bloodborne.
There's also one line in silver case that feels like it was taken straight from bloodborne.
At the end of the cauliflower level some ghost or something starts talking about how Kamui has awakaned then says "the bell tolls, beckoning for the holy hunter"
>smokes:cock
>>338167698
I never would have considered pool. It makes a certain amount of sense from that perspective but I still think that the only reason the rest are slaughtered so effortlessly is because only Emir is real. The rest are just sides of a fragmented mind.
I was from the wrong province to be into videogames. Soccer and hand egg were the games of choice, with hockey and curling being the winter variety.
>>338168239
Reminder Ulmeyda was right
NO. IT WASN'T ME. IT CAN'T BE.
IT'S ALL A MISUNDERSTANDING!
>>338168179
Kun Lan making a case that a perfectly stable and happy life has no meaning if nothing changes. The end is him laughing manically and harman freaking out as they realize Emir is coming back
>>338167084
I actually asked for it from my mother at that age. I didn't understand what I was getting into, but it looked awesome and my mum's pretty reasonable. Still, as I related somewhere earlier in the thread, I had to wait a few years before I could grasp it.
>>338167314
Absolutely bob on again. Anarchy is a youthful expression of frustration (seemingly a western thing?), which inevitably settles down into a peaceful rut, as illustrated by the battle 100 years later in Shanghai.
Good catch on the Tommy Gun too. The Chicago typewriter is almost emblamatic of the romantic crime of the 20's, and to a lesser extent of the wars that followed. Meanwhile the AP rifle is all modern, all impersonal. It shuts people up from a distance, a one word argument, no fury. Fury is relateable, charismatic even.
I wouldn't worry, I never graduated either. Why people let me teach their children is a mystery.
>>338168239
>we will never play a game where Clemens fulfills Ulmeyda's will
Kill me.
>>338150521
I still don't understand what the fuck's going on in this scene, but damn if it isn't a trip to watch.
>>338167683
The Yakumo takes the concept of the youthful, yet naive (they did all get brutally murdered in one incident in the 50's/80's after all) Liberal party one step further. Yakumo means the 8 clouds, and is a reference to some ancient poem about the structure of Japan as an island and kingdom/s. Yet it's also a whole loud of cloud - just ideas, pie-in-the-sky, no grounding. The Yakumo is a weird contradiction - codified ideals, split up into eight discrete chunks. Andrei Ulmeyda, just a normal Texan postal worker, the child of Brazilian immigrants, became a master businessman able to turn a profit from nothing and manage his out experimental cult because he read one of it's eight chapters. Yet his city and business were empty cardboard cutouts, secretly manipulated by the American military. Cynicism won.
As for Harman's machinations, they really do mean nothing in a sense. Not only can he not control Emir's choice, but it doesn't even matter - the same scene in Shanghai happens regardless of Matsuken's fate.
>>338168326
>How exactly did the original syndicate dissolve again? I don't believe it's been covered in Hand.
It's not. Here's all it says:
>[ 1778 ]
>Harman Smith unexpectedly quit professional assassination. He disappeared from society and history.
>Dimitri was rejected by the core persona. The core persona separated from Harman Smith and became Harman Deltahead, once more.
My theory is that because Dmitri is the source of the multifoliate personae disorder, without him the Syndicate cannot function. There must have been some division within the Syndicate, probably between Deltahead/Old Harman and Smith/Young Harman about their methods. Immediately after this, Deltahead founds Coburn Elementary School, so he probably wanted to take a more long-term approach to promoting western domination, as opposed to Smith who wanted to just kill everyone who would get in their way. In the process, Dmitri is cast out (it says he was Rejected, though who knows why) and the whole Syndicate collapses, leaving three individuals were before there was one, and before then there were two.
>>338151272
Shameless bait
>>338168775
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M8JzA2B5Z7I
The delivery on those lines is what really made that scene for me. He just sounds so fucking desperate and confused. It really felt like I was watching a man struggle to comprehend and accept his identity and past.
>>338151951
K7 freaked me out more than any Silent Hill. It makes you feel like you're actually losing your grip on reality.
>>338167712
I certainly am. I'm about half of the very lengthy posts in this thread, I think. Didn't have any idea I would be talking this much detail when I skipped onto /v/ today - I'm now eating dinner by the laptop for a change just to keep up with the conversation.
>>338168179
I've been talking about both change and the change/order dichomoty extensively in this thread, and yet this very memorable scene didn't even enter my head at the time. Killer7's themology is *very* consistent - the entire game is like a hologram, each part containing the thematic DNA for the complete product, while still remaining distinct and interesting. (not like George Lucas's pottery, which is needlessly redundant for instance).
How was no one said May the Lord smile and may the Devil have nercy yet?
>>338168989
Guns in bag anon again. Glad you see that too. I always thought Shanghai was simply showing that the battle between Yin, Yang and the Eastern and Western sides of politics is a neverending one. My posts are short until I finish this task. I've been here for too long.
DON'T
UNDERESTIMATE
THE
MONKEYS
>>338147714
>mfw Akira Yamaoka handed me a copy of Hand In Killer7 when I visited Grasshopper in 2014
