Can we have a discussion about WASD vs ESDF? Without the memes please?
What do you use and why?
Why don't you start by answering your own question, OP? I'm intrigued.
>>338102440
>using esdf
What the fuck is this some meme?
>>338104031
Actually most of pro players use ESDF, and it's been scientifically demonstrated that the use of ESDF leads to faster reaction times, and overall better performance.
If you don't believe me, then go ahead a try it. But be aware that once you go ESDF, you ain't going back.
>>338102440
WASD because I like using ALT for push to talk and doesn't put me at the spacebar dangerzone that the V or B key puts you in. Plus the little bump on the F key triggers me.
>>338104259
But it's literally the exact same shape and distance fucking why
>>338104259
I've got my hands there, and I completely lose easy access to ~, tab, shift, and ctrl.
How in the world does this even work
>>338104259
That sounds retarded and I don't believe you.
>>338104456
Replaced with access to Q, W, A, and Z for extra binds along with V, B, N, G, and T being much more accessible.
i can see why esdf can be useful but im honestly too lazy to change the keybindings myself and i do just fine on wasd, as I don't really need that many buttons for the games that i play
WASD comes form Wizardry back in '81, they used WAD for walking forward/turning left and right.
The reason they used WAD was that F key was already the 'forward' key. They picked a keyset that wasn't used for anything important.
Frankly, I don't see why we still use WASD 35 years later, we can do better with ESDF.
>>338105554
I do it with textchat games so I don't have to move my hand off the control inputs just to type.
https://wasdband.bandcamp.com/
WASD all the way
I used to play competitive FPS games and I've had a few teammates who say that ESDF gives you access to more keys on the left side of your hand. I guess thats kinda true, but at most youre getting, like, 3 more keys? Q+A+Z? and tab is really hard to hit from esdf.
plus you have to rebind EVERYTHING for EVERY GAME
YGHJ is supreme master race. The pinky has never been more useful and the index finger is opened up to a whole new world of potential and possibility.
>>338102440
There is very little doubt ESDF is better than WASD.
Personally though, I still use WASD because I'm used to it, and you don't gain that much from switching to ESDF in the vast majority of games.Also since I'm left-handed IJKL would probably be better than both but fuck that.
If I made a game, I would put an easter egg in that would say "You're a fucking idiot" if someone changed WASD to ESDF
>>338105148
i prefer to use tab and shift because they're bigger. Also a lot of games that use hold shift to run also use caps lock to toggle
>>338104259
>>338104425
>>338104627
The actual reason people use esdf is because it gives you that column of keys on the left to use. It doesn't make a difference too often, but in games where q and e are lean, I could really use those extra three keys.
RDFG is better
whats the difference
Why not go all the way the play with Home Delete End Page Down? Are you man enough?
>>338104404
>huh
>touches F key
>mfw
>>338107603
i wish more new games had lean buttons
>>338107234
>There is very little doubt ESDF is better than WASD
Not really. The only thing it actually does it make it harder to reach left Alt with your thumb.
I use the arrow keys
>>338102440
I remember Tribes 2 used ESDF by default
>>338107603
This is the correct and obvious answer. This whole thread is like that one reddit globaloffensive guy copied ScreaMs hotkeys and used z f h u or something ridiculous and swore it made him bettter
>>338102440
Left-handed NUMPAD user reporting in. Every now and again I'm tempted to try IJKL but I've been using the NUMPAD since I was a wee lad.
>>338102440
>tfw I have used arrow keys for games until 2012
You don't know how stupid I was
>>338107603
>>338107926
Makes no sense. If the reason is just for quicker access to more keys, then you could use RDFG or TFGH and have better access to right Alt with your thumb making them the best of both worlds. There is literally no reason to use ESDF.
I only used esdf for world of warcraft. I also had my 11 button mouse keyed for different attacks.
>>338107926
this guy must have some deformed hands
>>338104404
>Plus the little bump on the F key triggers me.
Isn't that a point in favor for ESDF? the bump lets you make sure your hand is in the right place without taking your eyes off the screen if you have to move it for wahtever reason.
>>338102440
I use RDFG
>>338108162
i barely ever find myself having to place my hand back over wasd and even so it's not much trouble to just find f and move one key over
>>338108148
Does this fallacy have a name, or is it just a version of slippery slope or the opposite of the middle ground fallacy?
>>338107863
While making it vastly easier to reach Alt with your little finger.
No, there really isn't a downside to ESDF, but there simply isn't a significant upside in most games.
>>338102440
ESDF has advantages over WASD.
WASD has no advantage over ESDF.
Am i the only one who uses IJKL?
>>338108162
It is. That's the whole point for the bumps being on F and J, since that's where you put your indexes if you're a typist.
>>338108489
>No, there really isn't a downside to ESDF
Except for having to reassign nearly every single command for every single game.
And the fucked up muscle memory thanks to needing to memorize two layouts for the times when you can't use ESDF
>>338107291
edgy
>not using pl;'
>>338108403
It's not a fallacy.
>>338108489
>While making it vastly easier to reach Alt with your little finger
Two problems with this. You want your pinky and thumb to be in reach of commands you want to e able to do while moving, so you don't have to move your WASD/ESDF fingers. By moving left Alt from your thumb to your pinky, you can no longer press it and another pinky button at the same time.
It once again makes more sense to use RDFG as it puts left Alt in an even better position for your pinky while moving right Alt into a good position for your thumb.
There is literally no reason to use ESDF.
>>338108317
Why even introduce the need to move your hand at all though? There's no reason to change your hand one spot over just for playing games beyond the fact that it's a 'standard'.
what about RAGE
>>338102440
I use wedf for everything now
rebinding keys for every single game is annoying but i think it's worth it
>>338109064
We don't talk about RAGE.
>>338109064
and then there's always this one faggot.
>>338109008
What kind of keyboard do you have/what kind of hand do you have that right alt is comfortable to hit while using RDFG? I'm trying it now and it's a huge stretch, and my keyboard is IBM standard minus numpad. Are you on a laptop perhaps? I know my laptop has a tiny spacebar.
>>338102440
Wait, stop. There are no keys between E and R. This is madness.
>>338109008
>It's not a fallacy.
Are you the same kind of person that when talking about raising the minimum wage says "Why stop at ten? Why not raise it to fifty dollars an hour? Or a hundred?" and thinks that you won the argument?
>>338109064
cool idea
>>338102440
This picture is triggering me.
>>338102440
wanted to try esdf, but my fingers naturally fall to wasd.
anyone else use WASD like this? where pinky is on a, ring finger for w and s and middle finger for d? i CANNOT for the life of me change this habit
>>338109445
Recommended treatment: rope and chair
>>338109216
I just tried on several keyboard and can reach without any stretching. I think you just have baby hands.
>>338109295
No, I'm the type of person who says that minimum wage should be abolished entirely to reduce opportunities for illegal immigrants and make it cheaper to operate a small business.
>>338109445
I tried to put my ring finger down to D and up to W several times, slow as fuck
>>338102440
dat keyboards keys are in the wrong place
e should be above d
>>338109445
fuck no
I have to bend my middle finger to get it on the D instead of just comfortably resting it on W
EDF
EDF
EDF
>>338109689
I've got lanky spider hands mate, though in hindsight it might also be a wrist injury that I'm still recovering from that's causing the pain. Either way it's hardly what I'd consider acceptable.
>>338102440
>WASD
>pinky can comfortably access shift and ctrl
>thumb can comfortably access alt and space
Maximum left hand efficiency.
>>338102440
Ctrl becomes too far away and Z is still too close to comfortably press with pinkie. I don't see any benefits.
>>338109014
i'd rather move my hand occasionally than having to move my pinky constantly trying to manage a whole extra row of keys
>>338109445
What are you from? Mars?
>>338110913
maybe part of it is that I never use ctrl/shift/alt. I always just rebind to other keys as I hate using my pinky for just about anything in PC games.
back when I used a keyboard I used Num 8,4,5,6
now that I use pic related, I map G11,16,17,18 to w,a,s,d simply because games use it by default
never heard of anyone using e,s,d,f
>>338111183
so what do you use? unless you have a 6th finger position it just doesn't make any sense since you need your thumb for the spacebar
>>338111662
what the fuck do you use as space? G22 looks way too close to be comfortable
>>338111835
I usually map space to G22
however, in games, I don't map jump to space but to a key that corresponds to a side button on my mouse
>>338111662
i'm sure this takes forever to get used to
,aoe master-race here.
>>338111662
Are you disabled or something?
>>338112041
not for me but I'm not really using it in the way it was designed
w,a,s,d is supposed to be mapped on G4,10,11,12 (the buttons have a slight round "dig" in them but I'm not comfortable having my hand spread out so much
the joystick is very bad is your intention is of mapping movement to it, I usually don't use it at all
>>338112416
no, why?
>>338104259
>>338112679
yeah i don't see how you could use a joystick comfortably with your hand flat like that
>>338112915
yeah but that's not the only thing, the shape and size of the joystick sucks, your thumb slips off of it
>>338102440
>he wants to slow down his access to shift/ctrl
>he doesn't actively change the position of his hand on the keyboard
>he can't reach up to i from wasd or atleast u without issues
ESDF has literally no advantage unless you're a slowfinger static position pleb who probably looks at his keyboard
RAGE is the only acceptable alternative to WASD purely because of ergonomic and comfy it is
>>338111662
>>338112679
does the joystick work like a controller joystick?
Does it support gradual movement speed in games that have it? (like MGSV and Mad Max I think?)
>>338104259
three posts until a shitty meme, nice work
Who /qwes/ here?
>>338108653
same. I use IJKL because I'm left handed and people look at me like i'm weird
>>338113583
>does the joystick work like a controller joystick?
yes it does
>Does it support gradual movement speed in games that have it? (like MGSV and Mad Max I think?)
sorry, I don't know
if you're thinking of buying, you should try it first, as I said before, I don't like it
>>338112871
Why else would you use something like that?
>>338102440
I use the arrow keys.
>>338114372
Not him but I use a similar thing because I just find it a lot more comfortable to have my WASD lined up.
>>338113352
>ESDF has literally no advantage unless you're a slowfinger static position pleb who probably looks at his keyboard
It makes more buttons accessible to my pinkie. That's literally all it does.
>>338114007
that's very odd
>>338114372
because a keyboard is not ergonomic compared to a console controller for example
it also takes a lot of space, hence why I used the numpad before, when I used wasd, my mouse was bumping with it often and my left hand had to be way more to the left
just uncomfortable
I considered buying pic related but I felt it limited me too much in control, simply by having far less buttons
>>338114969
>a keyboard is not ergonomic
Real talk: how stupid are you?
>>338102440
I switched from keyboard arrows to WASD, never tried ESDF.
Why would you even try that shit, is better to rest your hand at the end of the keyboard.
>>338115539
>i don't know how to type
>>338115105
not for for video games I think
and when it comes to typing, the letter aren't in alphabetical order, everyone is used to it but it doesn't change that it's bullshit and I don't see what advantage you get by having buttons not lined up
it's a matter taste I guess, not an absolute thing
>>338115689
>implying i didnt beat the fuck out of those co-workers in WPM using only 2 fingers while they used all fingers on keyboard
Niggers dont know about my type-skill with 2 fingers
>He doesn't use rage
enjoy that carpal tunnel
>>338115735
>ergonomics is software dependent
No, really. You're very, very stupid.
And keyboards are organized by letter frequency because of course they are, shithead.
>>338115824
Hunt and peck should be considered a mortal sin.
>>338115901
Why rage? Why extend the pinkie like that? Why not just go to vi keys or just rebind everything to the home row?
I used to use esdf because of the extra keys, but since every game comes with wasd default key bindings I eventually just switched to wasd, since it's easier than rebinding everything to accomodate esdf.
>>338116043
>Hunt and peck
But why nig, i dont even hunt the keys, i just type them by memory and i swear i have beaten motherfuckers who worked in offices before with this type of typing.
The only ones who have beaten me in WPM are people who used typewriters for a long period of time.
>>338116043
>ergonomics is software dependent
I never said that
>>338116043
>keyboards are organized by letter frequency because of course they are, shithead
not a good thing, alphabetical order would still be better, plus I don't see how you're right, 'Q' most used letter and 'M' least used one? plus what about different languages?
nope, I don't care if I'm alone, alphabetical order would be better, 100% sure
>>338116265
>The only people who type better than me are the ones who know how to type.
>>338116379
>you rest your fingers on q
Do you stupid faggots honestly not know what the home row is?
>plus what about different languages?
They have different keyboards, you stupid fuck.
>>338107863
And given you access to about 6 other keys.
I play wasd too but let's not pretend here
>>338109689
So you don't know anything
>>338116567
>They have different keyboards, you stupid fuck.
you don't switch keyboards when you type in different languages, sure, a russian and chinese keyboard have different letters, but that's not the point
>Do you stupid faggots honestly not know what the home row is?
first time I hear that term actually, from what I see, hand placement needs to be much lower so that the first letter you get to your left is "A". I don't remember when I first learned to type but now, anyways, my hands are never placed that low (I do suck at typing however)
>>338117531
>you don't switch keyboards when you type in different languages
You literally do. I'm only telling you this because I feel sorry for you and want you to have learned something today.
>>338102440
ESDF is better.
I used WASD because its more convenient, and some games don't allow rebinding.
>>338117994
>and some games don't allow rebinding
AHK fixes that.
>>338117641
I don't think most people do this, never heard of anyone having more than one keyboard for one computer...
