Do we all agree?
>making a tier list in a casual game
Also
>it's not even a list
What the fuck is this shit
What the fuck kind of metric is "efficiency"? Why is the scout "god tier efficiency"?
Eh, despite your bias you're kinda right.
x2 Scout
x2 Soldier
x1 Medic
x1 Engineer
That's pretty much the current Meta for 6v6 and I do think Scout is one of the more skillful classes in the game (if you die to a Scout you died because he had good aim and movement, no insta kill gimmicks or lasting pyro effect etc)
Still tho, Soldier is by no means "scrub tier"
>>338068675
Why does Sniper have a hat while the rest of the classes don't?
>inb4 butthurt soldier scrubs get triggered
you're complete correct OP
>>338069185
>I can't read charts
He said Soldiers don't need skill
>tfw scout main
>>338068675
This chart makes no sense.
How can a class require negative skill to play?
>>338068675
I'd say this is pretty accurate
Pyro should be a little further up in efficiency though
>>338069415
Feels good to know that you main the most skill orientated class, doesn't it?
>>338069536
well, there are no numbers on it, so you can assume it's a 0 to 10 scale, and the X and Y lines equal 5 in the scale
>>338069536
It's a scale from shit tier efficiency to God tier efficiency, where do you see a 0?
in deathmatch this is close
but tf2 is an objective based game
so the shorter the respawn time is, the more completely worthless sniper is, even at a 15 second respawn he is still near the middle, because he never stands on objectives
>>338069728
>>338069734
A zero is implied by the axes crossing that way
If the creator didn't want to have negative values he should have kept it to quadrant 1 (+/+) instead of including all 4 quadrants
>>338069894
There were no whole values at all, he expressed the ranges through verbal descriptions (scrub = easy mode classes)
Now's the part where you drag this on needlessly out of your stubborn ass nature rather than owning up to your fault
>>338070192
>If the creator didn't want to have negative values he should have kept it to quadrant 1 (+/+) instead of including all 4 quadrants
>>338069894
>it's implied
really? I disagree
to me, since it's impossible for there to be negative skill, it's implied that the lines are middle ground, not 0
>>338070305
There's no numerical values at all
I wish I could find TF2 fun again. Silly hats trading and F2P really ruined it for me.
>>338070542
>cosmetics and Valve not charging for people to play the game have ruined it for me
>>338070542
>join a pub after not playing for years
>dominate the server with basically any class you want because there are STILL some new players running around with gibuses
It may be low challenge but destroying niggas is still fun
>>338070690
Having a chat spammed with trade requests and filled with poor brazilians, russians and kids are not fun. Not to mention that the cosmetics are usually just wacky and misfitting to the game's aesthetics.
>>338070963
None of that happens, try playing the game rather than parroting what /v/ says
>hats in TF2 makes it too whacky
>TF2
>"""""""Whacky""""""
>>338068675
>scout that high in skill required
anon...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q9RjDRLBWio
>>338070963
>always hear shit about TF2
>join an official server
>everyone is playing decently
>sometimes someone will pick sniper and actually get kills, and they switch to other classes
>some kid starts asking about the benefits of spending money on the game over the specific threshold to get more drops
>some guy gives him a short run on it, and also gives a few tips so he doesn't get scammed, specially since he's so young, scam-bait
You guys must be very fucking unlucky
>>338070963
That mostly happens when you join a fucking trade server, you know.
Most pubs seem rather traderless.
>>338071421
They flat out lie. I recently started playing TF2 again and every server is just as it was. Full of immature kids like any pub online community
>>338071226
>t.Heavy shitter who can't handle a good Scout
It's a fact anon, the meta is x2 Scout for a reason
Soldier
Scout
Medic
Engineer
That's literally all that matters
>>338071226
>sniper
>pyro
>ok
>Scout
>Soldier
>shit
Gee, I wonder who made this list
This may look like a template, but all of the characters are off the chart in the bottom left.
>>338069415
How many lime hats do you own?
>>338068918
?
The 6s meta is 2 Scout 2 Soldier 1 Medic 1 Demo
Engineer aint really run in 6s unless its last.
>>338071226
You literally got it the wrong way around except from the Engineer and Medic
Offense = Scout/Soldier
Medic = Heal
Engineer = Support
That's literally all you need
>>338072251
I hear it's between Engineer/Demo.
Engineer because they cancel out Scouts really well
GOD:
Scout
Soldier
Demo
High:
Medic
Sniper
Mid:
Engineer
Heavy
SHIT:
Spy
Pyro
What's so good about Scouts and why are they in all the Metas?
Their health is low as fuck
>>338072387
Swap out Demo with Medic and you're spot on
>>338068675
Soldier should be lower than Pyro in Scrub tier.
>>338073434
Nah
>>338072473
You've either never played the game or you're a complete scrub. A good Scout won't be getting hit too much
>>338073517
It's true. Soldier's have the higher skill ceiling, but they've also got the lower skill floor.
>>338073434
lel no
Soldiers at least have Rocket jump which requires some skill to do
not perfect but whatever
>>338072473
In terms of DM they are by far the strongest being able to wipe the floor with everything short of a revved up heavy and engineers.
>>338073709
I disagree. Pyro has the lowest skill flower and ceiling of all the classes imo, maybe not as bad as Heavy but still, much worse than a Soldier in terms of scrub tier
>>338073987
Reflects are actually really difficult to pull off against good players, pyro may not be a very effective class but he doesn't deserve all the hate he gets.
>>338073732
Explain your graph
>>338073732
This is a thousand times better
>>338074128
He totally does. In pubs, Pyro stomps due to their pathetically low skill floor and in competitive play they serve no purpose.
They are a pointless class that only serves to annoy people
>>338074128
yep, i don't hate the class, but most pyros I see are complete retards who don't even extinguish players on fire.
>>338068675
>scout requiring more skill than sniper
>medic requiring skill at all
>>338074497
>sniper requiring skill at all
>150 damage body shots
>>338074497
>sniper
>find place not easily accessible or a place with a decent amount of cover
>hide
>right click
>wait a couple of seconds
>click on enemy
>win
>scout
>have to actively maneuver around shitters like soldiers and demomen to survive
>incredible great damage if you aren't a retard and have the ability to aim and dodge
>>338068675
>want to play the scout because he's fun
>hate the look and personality of the scout
Genji in Overwatch fills my aesthetic.
>>338068675
>making demo higher than soldier in skill
>making demo lower in usefulness
explain please.
>>338074164
Which part?
DM is total movement and aim needed to play the class effectively (which is why sniper isn't at the top because he doesn't have to move to be effective)
Game sense is positioning, timing, and ability to make good decisions in the heat of battle.
>>338074892
>sniper
>find place not easily accessible or a place with a decent amount of cover
>hide
>get backstabbed anyway
Spy is my favorite because he plays so different from all other classes. I'm not saying I'm great at him, but a really good spy is very scary.
>>338075115
>get backstabbed anyway
>sniper
>counters
>>338075068
>Demo
>more game sense than Scout
Try again
>>338075121
>Backstab entire enemy team with YER because they didn't notice
Most satisfying class in the game
>>338069415
My man.
>>338068675
From my experience, in order:
>Easy
Medic
Soldier
Heavy
>Medium
Pyro
Demoman
Scout
>Hard
Sniper
Engineer
Spy
Scout and Soldier are literal game changer classes in the hands of a good player, the rest not so much
>>338071226
>3(Three) of the main competitive classes are in shit tier
Or is this ranking the people who play the class?
>>338075564
>a sniper isnt a game changer class when a good player plays
>>338075230
>spy sees razorback
>headshots instead
>>338075121
I hate having to choose disguises every time. They should have a random option.
>>338075230
>Razorback
>a counter
I make a point of using my ambassador on every sniper I see. 1 headshot + 1 body shot will always kill them.
Please, stop acting like TF2 is still alive it's embarassing.
>>338075539
>Sniper
>engineer
>Spy
>hard
>Hard
Scout - No gimmicks, no bullshit 1 hitter kills, just pure mewvement and accuracy
Demoman - Requires situational awareness for its stickies
Medic - Terrible offense, needs to know its place and team mates stats
>Easy mode
The rest
>>338071421
This.
I've played the game for quite a while and most of the time, it's alright.
>>338075785
It'll be more alive than your game 6 months from now.
>>338075785
I am a blizzard fanboy and I am still subscribed to WoW, but TF2 isn't going anywhere in my heart.
>>338075235
>demo has to prioritize his targets and call focus
>demo has to blindly det stickies on enemies before he even sees them
>demo has to be creative with sticky traps
>demo has to carefully manage his ammo and reloads
>demo has to play really close but gets less heals than soldiers and scouts and is expected to have less deaths than both
>demo has the hardest rollouts of any class and burns through health really fucking quickly
>demo usually gets the job of guarding last and forcing/blocking ubers
scout
>get overheals
>watch flank
>finish off wounded enemies
>repeat
>>338073709
Isn't that ideal? If a game is easy to pick up and has a very high skill ceiling, isn't that good?
>>338075894
>Medic
>look at ally, left click and jump around randomly
>hard
>>338075982
>half-assed game
>litteral nobodies
>litteral nobodies
>litteral nobodies
Blizzard already won and you know it.
>>338075982
why'd they fuck up battlefield heroes
why man
>>338075894
How is spy easy? Try to stab more than 1 player around a team that knows how to handle spies. It's a top difficulty class.
>>338075894
>mewvement
>>338068675
>spy
>skill
You can be a good spy but ultimately your effectiveness depends on the awareness of the other team, not how you play.
>>338068675
This is bait, why can't you people see that?
>Axes labled within the graph
>Efficiency
>Pyro useless meme
>Scout as best
>Engineer as high skill
>Massive discrepancy between soldier and demo
>>338075982
This image is severely out dated. The game has reached open testing, and it's fun as fuck. Blizzard actually cares about the game too.
Isn't Pyro reliant on sending back enemy projectiles, having to avoid open spaces in general and having to ambush people, as well as completely fucking over spies by puffing flames every few steps? I find this to be harder than hitting people with rockets then getting cover to reload, or making my grenades arc correctly to hit enemies.
>>338076307
>axes
>>338075651
Far too slow to make a difference. They can take out some random stragglers but in competitive play they're next to useless
If they made a TF3, what features would you guys like to see?
>>338076246
>invinisble
>insta kill attack
>disguise
>can sabotage sentries
They're easy as fuck if you have even the most basic of map knowledge
>>338076161
>need to develop Ubers
>keep yourself alive and your master:^)
They're a selfless game changing class that requires situational awareness moreso than any other class
>>338076638
The plural of axis.
>>338075663
>stand near teammates/sentries instead of going off on your own like a retard
>spy gets gibbed before he can even fire a second shot
>>338076941
>cloak that shimmers if somebody so much as sneezes on you and vanilla maps have choke points all over the fucking place
>insta kill attack that only works if you're right up someones asshole and they're facing away from you
>disguise that doesn't even fool F2Ps for more than a few seconds
>ability that is rarely ever needed when demo exists
>>338068675
You know it to be true.
>>338076307
Literally all of that is correct though
>Pyro useless
Correct
>Scout is best
Top tier meta next to soldier but requires more skill to use. Labled perfectly on the axis
>Engineer is high skill
Requires retarded map awareness and knowledge
>discrepancy between soldier and demo
Soldier is virtually better in every way, it's why x2 Soliders and x1 Demo is the meta and not x2 Demo
>>338076941
Spy is easy only if you play against a shit team. All of that can be countered by any decent player.
>>338076893
Sniper removed from the game.
>>338069415
>scout main
>best main
>>338069415
>>338069415
>main scout because i like fast characters
>suck at the game and don't contribute much when i decide to play him
>>338073987
Pyro, as easy as they are to play, still have to cop with the fact that they don't have much options for long and mid range, and also get stomped out when they aren't playing any sort of ambush role.
Soldier, on the other hand, has always been the go-to "I'm getting dominated and I need to get a quick revenge" class since the very beginning due to how easy it is to wipe out an entire team with him, to say nothing of a spontaneous critical.
Soldiers are definitely the better class in terms of versatility and overall usefulness, but to say they take more, bare minimum skill to use than a Pyro is asinine.
>>338068675
That does not make any sense? Soldier, demo, medic should all be in top of pro tier.
Are you one of those "frendly" players?
>>338071226
you dropped this
Best: what I play
Worst: what you play
>>338077648
turn down your sensitivity and get a mouse that isn't shit
this is the most annoying area in the game to push the cart.
We can agree on this, right?
>>338076893
Third person. What's the point in playing a colorful, highly accessorized character if you can't even see them?
>>338077762
They are, Soldier, medic, scout and demo are in the most efficient classes, skill wise Soldiers are not hard to use at all
>>338077914
Its the end point on pl_Upward for me
>>338077648
How someone can suck with the stock scattergun is beyond me.
>>338069415
I once won a game for my team as scout
I'm absolute horseshit at this game but it felt great
>>338077375
>Pyro useless
Pyro is consistently the worst class but it isn't that useless and can really shine in the right map and time.
>Scout is best
High skill ceiling absolutely but it is a support DPS and can't carry anything on its own like a soldier can
>Engineer is high skill
The skill is vastly over valued in the graph
>discrepancy between soldier and demo
Demo is undervalued and soldier skill is understated
It also massively over values the sniper. Not to mention, based on the layout the center point isn't an average which implies some objective scoring system that isn't mentioned.
>>338077410
I'll second this along with spy. Stealth just doesn't work with multiplayer, IMO. It removes the confrontational element and makes things less fun.
>>338078048
so you can do obnoxious taunts covered with ugly items to make people even more mad when you kill them
>>338078180
Pub or what?
Sniper should be removed from the game tbqh
>>338077914
>he doesn't exclusively play CTF/Control Point
Casual as fuck
>>338078272
Agreed.
>>338078272
>>338078394
T. cannot click on heads
>>338078321
Ctf is the worst. It's just a huge stall fest. Cp is great though.
>>338078120
the graph is just wierd. You cant have 2 valuables per row. Soldier is in scrub tier, god tier and low skill tier. Scrub tier should be changed to pro tier.
What does "pro tier" mean in this graph? Professional tier? coz then soldier should be up not down.
>>338078214
spy is the coolest class in the entire game and without him it wouldn't have even half the charm
the fact that some infiltrator can walk among your ranks, wearing your name and then turn around and stab the medic which was healing him in the back brings so much to the TF2 experience
>>338078496
I'm sorry i think a long range character that instakills nearly everyone easily isn't good for a short-medium range game.
Actually I'm not, fuck you.
>>338078496
When has that ever been necessary to play sniper?
>charge up
>shoot somebody in the foot
>LOL150DAMAGE
>>338068675
Look at you trying to keep this game relevant, how cute :3
And you have your little contrarian friends here too
Overwatch will pull the life support
>>338078210
>High skill ceiling absolutely but it is a support DPS and can't carry anything on its own like a soldier can
I disagree, their x2 ability on control maps makes them crucial as well as their speed boost for more casual modes like Payload. In capture the flag they are flat out detrimental to the groups success if the group isn't spamming Sentries (if so some good team work can allow soldiers/heavies/demos to destroy the sentries and let the scout pick up the intel).
Scouts are significantly more detrimental than Soldiers in my opinion and 1v1 they have no weakness outside of sentries. Support DPS is also false, they are the highest damaging class in the right hands and a skilled Scout player will beat a skilled soldier player every time.
>The skill is vastly over valued in the graph
Maybe, I didn't make it.
>Demo is undervalued and soldier skill is understated
I agree, but I do think a Soldier is significantly more useful than Demos as well as their skill ceiling being exaggerated by their "rocket jump". They are the most noob friendly class in the game
>>338078910
>>338078910
It will not. All the "pros" will go to overwatch but tf2 is not going enywhere.
>it's a "everyone hates pyro" episode
>>338078981
Scouts usefulness comes down to how many players are on the server. 24 slot he's going to eat a shitload of spam but in 6v6 he's godly. Overall soldier is the most effective class in every situation. Demo is harder to play than soldier but can potentially put out more damage and push faster.
>>338079209
It fucking sucks, and this is coming from a pyro main.
>>338078910
Just like loadout did?
>b-but Blizzard
See Battlefront. It also had a huge beta and died quicker than you can say "meme game".
Call me in a year, we'll see how Overwatch is doing :^)
>>338078910
Fuck off overwatch falseflagger
>it's a "defend the dead game propped up by its cosmetic economy" thread
move on with your lives or at least cash out before the crash
>>338079272
>Scouts usefulness comes down to how many players are on the server
I disagree, Scouts are useful in most server. I do think Soldiers are slightly more useful in higher packed serves (due to their choke-point spam) but in 6v6 Scouts (like you said) are unmatched in terms of efficiency.
>>338075982
>Literal who companies
>>338079117
Nah, Valve are opening "le competitive TF2" meme that will keep the """""""""""""Pros""""""""""""" occupied long enough for Overwatch to run its course
>>338079520
Don't forget outside of 6v6 engineers are much more common and there's little scouts can do about them. Scout isn't a bad choice but he's just not as good without explosives.
>>338079360
>See Battlefront. It also had a huge beta and died quicker than you can say "meme game".
don't all the meme mainstream battlefield/CoD games die faster than you can spit on the ground and curse EA?
>>338078981
Hypothetical: Two matches are played back to back. The first match the team being tested is not allowed to use scouts. In the second match the team being tested is not allowed to use soldiers.
Which match was easier to win?
The obvious answer is the match where scouts are banned. The scouts can do a lot of damage but they need to avoid taking hits to stay useful which means they can't push or hold points. Soldiers put out nearly the same damage and can skirmish if need be or apply pressure and defend.
I agree scout is the second best and definitely has the highest skill ceiling but the soldier is under valued on that chart. It is the core of the team that the scout plays off of.
>>338079629
Are you seriously going to try and argue TF2 is less competitive than overwatch.
>>338079338
>tfw the Phlog is useless
>>338069894
There are no zero values. Since it is explicated that the ranges go from scrub skill to pro skill, and shitty to God, we know that there are no negative values because that makes no rational sense. Therefore, we can conclude that the entire graph does in fact take place in quadrant 1 as you described, and the lines on the axes merely represent middling values. But of course, you knew and understood this immediately when you looked at the image, but pedantposted anyway.
>>338079846
>becomes useful
>idiots cried and got it nerfed to the ground
Such is the standard for TF2
I stopped playing CTF when I realized that 2fort only exists to give snipers something to do
its literally a map for them to circle jerk each other, they dont even care about the ctf part at all
>>338079793
This is straight up theorycrafting though. It's hard to make an argument off of pure speculation.
>>338076161
this is the truth
1) hold m1
2) know where to position
3) know when to uber
win games. simple really. unless noone else has any idea what they are doing and your soldier/heavy are shit
>>338079690
I'll never get this meme, sentries can wreck any class. It's up to the team to work together to wipe out sentries, Scouts will always have their place no matter the server size due to how quickly they can capture objectives and flank the opposition
>>338079845
competitive has nothing to do with any sport. All that matters is money. And i can say blizzard is making overwatch esports unlike valve. Guess wich game the """"""""pros""""""""" are going to pick?
>>338079846
I play a lot of pyro because its fun but i'll admit it has no place in a 6v6.
When the MvM came out everyone and their mother was shitting overthemselves because a phlog pyro could solo a tank when they ignored the fact that you can push bomb carriers back indefinitely with air blast. Fucking plebs.
>>338080101
>he captures objectives
>>338079845
TF2 is not less competitive than overwatch, the skill ceiling is significantly higher from what i've played
Overwatch felt like CoD meets TF2
>>338079793
Nice made up scenario and lel, a good scout will always be SIGNIFICANTLY harder to beat than a good soldier. They can literally wreck Heavies in 3 shots
>>338077552>>338077552
Yes? Highest skill ceiling, dominates the meta, no gimmicks/bullshittery, has the best bantz, best characterization, competitively viable, face of TF2 now, best aesthetics, stars in more SFM outside of Meet The ... videos. He is, quite objectively, the best main.
>>338080160
airblast pyros are the best in mvm. the fact you can shove giant bots into the holes is great.
>>338080052
really? being invulnerable to all damage is OP, not useful
>noone ever ranks personality
after all these years voice commands still amuse me. dom lines make me laugh every time
demo obvious #1
>>338080073
It's not at all, it's simply pointing out that while they are both great and work well together, the soldier is the core of the team and function better in and outside of their intended role than a scout will.
The speculation is this ideal 6v6 match being played in a vacuum.
>>338080227
>Made up scenario
An exercise to point out that the soldier is more valuable than the scout.
>literally wreck Heavies in 3 shots
Why is that important in a 6v6 with no heavies?
>>338080198
>he plays games
>>338080472
>pyro charges us
>does phlog power up taunt
>he think he slick
>4 stickies under him
>>338080505
>An exercise to point out that the soldier is more valuable than the scout.
An exercise you made in your head as well as its outcome.
Here's an objective fact.
Good Scout player vs Good Soldier player
Scout dominates everytime due to his movement potential
>>338080472
>pyro taunts to use his phlog
>In that span of time, plant stickies on his feet
>KABOOM
>>338072473
Scout can 2 shot 8/9 classes and has the best movement in the game.
Totally balanced character.
>pyro will never be viable
>tfw
>>338080101
>sentries can wreck any class
Yeah right, sentries are a joke to demo and soldier.
>>338078576
It's not hard to read you dumb fuck.
Soldier is pro tier in 'Efficiency' and scrub tier in 'Skill Required to Use'.
>>338080505
>>338080227
In 6v6 soldier and scout play different roles. Both important. Its stupid to argue wich one is better when both are needed.
2xsoldiers 2xscouts
>>338080151
That doesn't make over watch the better game. I'm not defending valve either there's only like 3 people actively working on TF2
>>338080705
95% of players will miss those 2 shots
>>338080817
>6s meta
stale & boring as fuck
>>338080773
Unless sentry bullets don't hurt soldier and demo then they're not a joke
>>338080927
Exactly why a skilled Scout player = Essentially the most lethal class in the game
>>338068675
>people think a Pocket Soldier with the Direct Hit isn't the meta
>>338080664
But that scenario is also made up.
The whole point of that graph was a 6v6 match with both teams playing the meta and no other external factors which will never happen.
The objective fact is a team can do better with no scouts than it can with no soldiers and the graph simply does not reflect that.
There is no need to get frustrated or upset. Scout is still a close second and definitely takes more skill, but that graph over values him.
If we're talking 100% accuracy then wouldn't sniper be the ultimate class?
>>338081056
until a mini sentry arrives
>>338080794
Im a dumb fuck still dont get the graph. I dont see the "pro tier" and "efficiency" coming together. What ever.
>>338080940
Soldier and demo can both hit sentries without even looking at it. What's the engineer going to do? Pick a fight with the two strongest combat classes?
>>338080817
Stupid maybe but the answer is clear. A soldier can do more than his intended role in a 6v6 where a scout can't.
These graphs are presented as objective data but even when you take into account their extremely narrow view of the game they still don't paint a valid picture.
>>338081128
>But that scenario is also made up.
It's not though, 1v1 nothing other than a sentry can beat a skilled scout player.
What tools does a Soldier have to combat a Scout using effective movement?
>The objective fact is a team can do better with no scouts than it can with no soldiers and the graph simply does not reflect that.
Except Scouts very nature (speed for capturing intel, x2 per Scout on control points) denies this """"""""""""""""""objective""""""""""" fact.
Soldiers have none of those benefits other than some meme noob tube tier spams that can catch out scrubs in pubs. Outside of sentry destroying, Soldiers will never carry games like a skilled Scout can and that's due to their very nature/traits and observable bonuses
>>338076170
>Splash Damage
>Literal nobodies
Well meme'd, fellow Redditor, upboated.
>>338081165
No, a Scout still out DPS's a 100% accurate sniper as well as moves significantly faster.
Snipers are all round useless in competitive metas
>>338080916
Its not about wich one is better. When you think about it its really fuking stupid to talk about this. TF2 is old game with little marketing almost none. Overwatch is a new game with biggest gaming company backing it.
>>338081345
>beat
This just shows that you don't know what you are talking about. You are thinking in pub terms. Beating does not mean killing. If a scout and a soldier meet between a point the soldier wins because the scout can't effectively engage and can't push the soldier. The soldier maintains area control.
That is the reality of a 1v1 encounter in 6v6 and the soldier "wins" that encounter by not allowing it to happen in the first place.
But yeah, if you just join a random pub server filled with people doing their own thing and you find a soldier by himself you are probably going to kill him.
>>338081572
2 headshot kills are worth more then 500 damage on healed targets mate
>>338081572
actually they were the most useful class in highlander
until the recent ban wave
>>338081709
>This just shows that you don't know what you are talking about. You are thinking in pub terms. Beating does not mean killing
In meta 6v6 play you yourself admitted that Scouts are god tier whereas Soldiers are betetr in larger servers?
Why back pedal now?
>>338081756
Nope
>>338081834
>memelander
I haven't played in forever but just remember love using the gunslinger+frontier justice
I wish the BFB would get a slight buff. Make it so damage doesn't reduce so much of your boost, and maybe make it so afterburn doesn't instantly destroy your boost and I'd be happy.
>>338081954
>>memelander
>he still thinks 6s is relevant when all the good people are quitting out of boredom
>>338081854
>Soldiers are betetr in larger servers?
I didn't do that at all, in fact I said the opposite. What reading grade level are you at so I can write in a way you can understand?
>6v6
>You can't use scouts
>You can still win
>You can't use soldiers
>You can't win
Better? Soldier is better in 6v6 and has the ability to fill more roles. Either way you look at it the soldier is better, even if losing your scouts is a big fucking deal.
>>338082205
People are leaving because it has no support from valve. Highlander is slow and spammy as shit compared to 6s
>>338082541
Yes well valve is against weapon and class bans to begin with so they will never support the classic 6v6 format. Same with traditional highlander. However, that is not the reason they are dying. It is because the metas are so boring and stupid that nobody will play nor will they watch this trash.
>>338082765
Meta is boring in most games. In cs you have pistol, rifle, sniper and cheaper versions of those weapons. Its bretty boring but still the 3rd popular game there is.
>mfw I main Pyro and don't give a shit what a shitty graph on /v/ says about it
>>338082263
see
>>338079272
>Scouts usefulness comes down to how many players are on the server. 24 slot he's going to eat a shitload of spam but in 6v6 he's godly.
Let me guess, that wasn't you?
>Better? Soldier is better in 6v6 and has the ability to fill more roles.
Soldiers is not better in 6v6, 1v1 or 20v20. He's objectively inferior in pretty much every way :^)
>no x2 buff on control point
>no additional speed boost in pay load
>can't move as quickly to capture intel
>Has more weaknesses (Scout/Sniper/Heavy/Spy whereas Scout only really has Sentries as its weakness)
It's just worse m8, sorry soldierbabbie, your class is inferior and more scrubby
>>338082765
That's why comp beta is 6v6 right? Go play against cola scouts and natasha heavies and then come back and tell me 6s would be better with no bans.
>>338083023
you can main all the characters in pub and kill all. Its about having fun. This thread is tryhard. brb gotta go do emotes to red team.
>>338083162
>>no x2 buff on control point
>he doesn't use pain train
kek the damage debuff is negligible.
>>338079272
>fill more roles
>sentry destroying and????????
Scout fills more roles
>capture the objective
>Takes out medics/snipers (Scout counters them perfectly) and even heavies (A good scout counters heavies perfectly)
>Flank
Post 'em.
>>338083167
It may be 6v6 but there are not any class or weapon restrictions, nor will there be. Since people pay valve for their weapons valve will not restrict them.
>>338083330
>damage debuff
Not even talking about that, i'm talking about how 1 Scout capturing a contorl point counts as 2 players therefore it gets captured faster.
>>338083409
What's stopping soldiers from killing medics and snipers?
>A good scout counters heavies perfectly
Maybe if the heavy is retarded and can't aim.
>>338083330
>equip atomizer
>soldier becomes negligible
Oh wait, the atomizer is banned in comp. because of all the soldierscrubs and co. whining.
>>338083507
and thats why u use the pain train if you're a non retarded soldier/demo
>>338083450
Do you think the 6v6 community wants to ban all these weapons? The truth is valves weapon design is straight up fucking lazy. If they actually reached out to comp years ago and fixed these weapons we wouldn't need bans.
>>338083420
Ok.
>>338068675
Is this a LOSS edit?
>>338075982
>alive
>literally hundreds of AFK servers
>servers for erp
>>338078214
>im bad at spy
>>338075982
>he thinks thousands of trading servers, brony servers, meme servers, and ERP servers means his game is "alive"
Stop you're killing me m8.
pyro used to be viable when last I played though I heard they nerfed degreaser/flaregun combo. either way I think it's better than absolute garbage tier. and soldier arguable has a very high skill ceiling, even though it is the first class you git gud with. and putting engi that high? I don't see it. both his standard weapons are actually really good, his movespeed is a comfy stride that makes for smooth aiming but still lets you kinda dodge and be strategic. placing the right turrets isn't that hard.
but you're kinda on the right track though.
>>338083564
>What's stopping soldiers from killing medics and snipers?
A good sniper will destroy a Soldier before he touches him due to their slow speed, no rocket jump will save them from an accurate sniper. As for Medics, the reason Scouts are good against them is because a great scout can be in and out of a group and take out the medic before the team can even react. The soldier would likely need to sacrifice themselves to take out a guarded medic.
>Maybe if the heavy is retarded and can't aim.
A scout can take out a heavy in 2-3 shots. A great scout would beat a great heavy providing his movement is on point and he flanks him (which is what Scouts should do). The heavy would be dead before he knew it.
>>338083614
Kek, forgot that the atomizer got banned, pathetic. Sodliersbabbies truly are the worst.
>>338077874
I'll probably get a lot of shit fro this but here I go:
How the hell can you use low sensitivity on your mouse?
When I was a kid, some older guy (probably trolling me) said I needed to have the fastest DPI's possible so that I could point faster to the enemy with little movement.
I know TF2 isn't exactly a competitive pro tier shooter. But how can low mouse sensitivity be the way to go When I'm sitting at 6000 DPI's and be above average?
>>338084721
>A good sniper will destroy a Soldier before he touches him due to their slow speed
Soldier can tank his shots though, scouts can't. Its about the same.
>The soldier would likely need to sacrifice themselves to take out a guarded medic.
Soldier can take out the medic AND his pocket in the same clip. You're forgetting this is a pub and there are chokes. Being able to push through spam is invaluable and not something scout can do without help.
>scout can take out a heavy in 2-3 shots
You do realize heavy has 500 dps revved up right? Heavy can miss 4/5th of his bullets and still kill him.
>>338085614
>Soldier can tank his shots though, scouts can't. Its about the same.
2 body shots Soldier is dead, 1 headshot and the soldier is dead. So no, the soldier ain't tanking shit
>scouts can't
Scouts don't need to tank, good movement, flanking will always have a Scout destroy a sniper.
>Soldier can take out the medic AND his pocket in the same clip. You're forgetting this is a pub and there are chokes
So now we're talking pubs again? Make up your damn mind.
>You do realize heavy has 500 dps revved up right? Heavy can miss 4/5th of his bullets and still kill him.
Did you miss the "flank" him part? You know, the biggest way of playing Scouts? Flank him and the heavy will be dead before he manages to turn around
>>338084862
Lower ingame mouse sensitivity, not DPI.
High DPI, low-ingame sens.= better accuracy
>>338086862
But isn't 6000 DPI still too much? It's the maximum my mouse allows.
>>338069415
das right son.
>>338086948
>>338084862
Woah dude, you're like... A badass or something
>scout is the best class in the game
>also the most boring
inb4 memes about going fast
>>338086948
At that point, it's honestly about muscle memory. Only you, can really decide if your aim is improving or not. Try lowering your DPI a bit and play like that for a while. Once muscle memory has set in, you'll be able to tell if you performed better at the lower DPI or the higher one. I personally play at 3000 and .75.
>>338086092
There's no way a sniper is going to land a full headshot on a RJing soldier. Its either going to be a full bodyshot or quickscope hs.
The flank is going to be well guarded with 24 players. You NEED that extra health and splash to get through.
First post I made I said 24 player servers. Unless there's a 12v12 comp format I don't know about that's going to mean pubs.
You're assuming you'll catch the heavy by surprise. Heavy survives solely on his situational awareness. If he isn't paying attention anything can easily kill him so that's irrelevant.
>>338087595
>There's no way a sniper is going to land a full headshot on a RJing soldier.
A scrub sniper can land body shots, there's zero recoil in this game anon. The sniper is a real easy mode class restricted by their shit tier movement potential. A skilled player would destroy a Soldier 1 on 1
>The flank is going to be well guarded with 24 players.
Not at all. Scouts regularly get far behind the enemy lines due to them moving so fast that people seem to ignore them. This is pubs we're talking about, right? if so then you should know how effective Scout flanking is.
>You NEED that extra health and splash to get through.
You really don't, a good Scout won't be getting hit at all.
>You're assuming you'll catch the heavy by surprise.
A good Scout ALWAYS catches their enemy by surprise, you're literally flipping around the map for fuck sake running on top of roofs, ledges whatever is on the map, how good "situational awareness" do you expect to see in a Pub match?
>>338088125
>a good scout is literally invincible & matrix dodges everything + he's a ninja and nobody ever sees him cus hes 2 fast
>>338088125
Yes a bodyshot, a headshot is a different thing entirely especially with source engines shitty netcode.
>Scouts regularly get far behind the enemy lines due to them moving so fast that people seem to ignore them.
What giant open field of a map are we talking about here? Orange X3? Scouts cannot avoid all chokes. 5cp maybe but that shit never gets played on valve servers you're more likely looking at dustbowl and badwater. Good fucking luck sneaking bye on those.
>engie
>skill
lmao I picked him when I was eating breakfast or dinner because he demanded the least attention to the actual game
>>338088510
Precisely.
>>338088582
>Yes a bodyshot, a headshot is a different thing entirely especially with source engines shitty netcode.
Netcode is fine in my experience, 2 shots from a scrubby sniper + zero recoil = dead soldier
>What giant open field of a map are we talking about here?
Any map. Take:
Gorge
>Numerous walkways that the player can use to flank heavies on the ground
Doublecross
>Sewer system that the scout can exploit to get behind enemy lines
>Crouch jump from the bridge on top of the sniping cabin in the enemy base, use that to wait for heavies to begin rushing and get them from behind
2fort
>Sewer system
>Middle bridge roof that the scout can run across
Sawmill
>Numerous roof tops that the Scout can traverse
Virtually any popular map has numerous ways that a Scout can exploit it
> Scouts cannot avoid all chokes
What chokes exactly?
>>338068675
Scout mains are the most cancerous playerbase. They always ignore whatever the map objective is, either be intel capping or kart pushing and go around the map trying to pick off kills. As if that wasn't bad enough, they always come complemented with a lime/pink unusual, shitty miscs, and overly expensive farmed killstreak weapons. Bonus points if they are a horsefucker, which they almost always are.
>>338078124
Seconding this. the offense should have at least one strong perch that would put the enemy team out of position if they tried to reach it. The problem with upwards last point is the hallway across from spawn is easilly accessible on the enemy team and people can just defend from there to the choke point.
That and sentries are a fucking nightmare especially if they have wrangle and rescue ranger.
>>338068675
>Overwatch around the corner
>Suddenly tons of TF2 threads
You already lost Valve, quit shilling.
>>338069415
>tfw pyro main
No
Scout, Demo, Soldier (and medic for purely gameplay reasons) are the only classes worth a fuck and the difference between a bad one and a good one is vast for all of them
They all take skill and a certain amount of gamesense
Anything but those 4 is scrub tier
Deal with it
>>338080278
>This extreme level of self promotion
You're a scout main for sure
>>338073730
and pyro has the detonator which is harder to use than rocket jumping
>>338089468
>mfw I'm a scout main who always pick off people that are trying to harass the main group or take out our sentries behind cover
nothing more satisfying than helping a team out.
>>338089768
>self-promotion
I don't think you know what that word actually means.
>>338077779
>Ghastlier Gibus
but that would mean that he's been playing since at least 2011
>>338089794
no it's not
It might be harder to get the same reward but the layers to rocket jumping are much deeper.
>>338068675
>engineer is harder to play than soldier, medic, demoman, and sniper
No.
>>338090273
In terms of game sense yes he is.
A new player can do well with soldier demo or sniper, a new player will do awful with an engineer.
>>338089038
>Netcode is fine in my experience
>Numerous walkways that the player can use to flank heavies on the ground
Except you know all three entrances into the objective are through tiny doorways and the second point is in a completely enclosed building. FFS the right and left entrances of the area past the 1st point are 1 person wide.
>Doublecross
>2fort
>sawmill
CTF is a joke gamemode. Even still 2fort is literally all fucking chokes and 1 person wide hallways. How the fuck do you get a scout is going to dodge spam in that?
>>338089845
>scout main
>team player
why are you lying on the internet anon
>>338078910
(you)
>>338090935
Well I use FaN and guillisand so that might answer some questions.
>>338091130
>and guillisand
Excuse me
>>338090683
>netcode is fine in my experience
>HURR, HERE'S SOME RANDOM EXAMPLE
Like I said, works for me :^) Maybe u shld git gud
>CTF is a joke gamemode
>Even still 2fort is literally all fucking chokes and 1 person wide hallways.
Ah, i'm speaking to a scrub. I should have known
Stick to payload soldierbabbie, maybe you can get some l33t rocket kills by spamming some corner getting dat dere KD up while your team misses out on every checkpoint
>>338091215
sand man x guillotine
>>338091241
>HURR, HERE'S SOME RANDOM EXAMPLE
I took that picture myself playing sniper. TF2's netcode is absolute garbage. It's been a running joke for years don't pretend like it isn't an issue.
>Ah, i'm speaking to a scrub. I should have known
>>338091453
Fucking hell my post got cut off
>Ah, i'm speaking to a scrub. I should have known
You seriously think 2fort and doublecross is where all the good players are? The gamemode that boils down to who gets scouts into intel before the engie circlejerk first while everyone else plays mlg sniper duels?
>>338091241
>he thinks 2fort is a good map
I have very fond memories of 2fort, but you have no idea about what good map design is
>>338075780
Good luck. Good snipers will be standing next to a sentry or other teammates making it impossible for you to kill them.
>>338091453
>I took that picture myself playing sniper. TF2's netcode is absolute garbage. It's been a running joke for years don't pretend like it isn't an issue.
Netcode is fine for me. Like I said, git gud connection poorfag scrub
>You seriously think 2fort and doublecross is where all the good players are? The gamemode that boils down to who gets scouts into intel before the engie circlejerk first while everyone else plays mlg sniper duels?
So which gamemode/maps are you talking about?
Gorge is one of the primarily played 6v6 maps (that I encounter anyway), I like how you conveniently ignored that one and again, make your damn mind up if we're discussing Pubs or 6v6. I listed Doublecross/2fort because those are the most popular Pub maps
